Well, the Lord of the Rings is centered on Frodo, but the story would have been much less fascinating if all had been viewed from his unique… more point of view.
I advocated on several threads for multiple protagonists.
What I want is not get rid completely of Clementine as protagonist, but not to be eternally stuck with her as the character through which we experience the zombie apocalypse and the amazing variety of situations this background offers.
Besides 11 (or 12 if season 3 takes place some months later, whatever) year-old protagonist means you experience the world and relationships in other ways than adults.
It would be nice to get a taste again of being an adult in the ZA.
I would sign with both hands for two protagonists, Clementine and a complete new adult character, whose plotlines would reunite at some point in the game. (and not one episode per protagonist, but playing each at least once within each episode)
frodo's story was sort of the most boring parts, samwise is an excellent friend, but frodo is a bit of a drag, anyway i digress, i think a new non defined character would be better than clementine, they would be more of our own character, unless we HAD to have a child, then clementine would be better
Well, the Lord of the Rings is centered on Frodo, but the story would have been much less fascinating if all had been viewed from his unique… more point of view.
I advocated on several threads for multiple protagonists.
What I want is not get rid completely of Clementine as protagonist, but not to be eternally stuck with her as the character through which we experience the zombie apocalypse and the amazing variety of situations this background offers.
Besides 11 (or 12 if season 3 takes place some months later, whatever) year-old protagonist means you experience the world and relationships in other ways than adults.
It would be nice to get a taste again of being an adult in the ZA.
I would sign with both hands for two protagonists, Clementine and a complete new adult character, whose plotlines would reunite at some point in the game. (and not one episode per protagonist, but playing each at least once within each episode)
i haven't lost my love for clementines character, but i am saying the experience of playing clementine as a character connected to me far less than lee, i didn't feel like i was clementine, i think her being a child is a factor, but i was once a child so i can obviously relate, but she was already defined to me except the missing years, i think a brand new character is just better from a player character perspective, so i can feel like they are my own character more, or feel like they are me.
It means being more invested into the story now, more than ever before. As someone who played through the first season as they were coming o… moreut, I was invested into seeing what happened next and loved speculating on it. But this season more so than ever before I wanted to see what would happen next.
Emotionally invested is a better way to describe it.
Maybe not Arvo, but it would be interesting playing as someone who has an injury, like a broken bone or just a bum leg/arm. It would be interesting to see how someone like that survives.
He did ? Perhaps. I only took this LOTR example to illustrate how a story benefits from different point of views.
We get to see how the humble, small Hobbits normally not fit for adventures deal with literally having the fate of the world in their hands, and that was refreshing at a time Heroic Fantasy was all about Knights and warriors, but we still get a taste of how the "greater" people handle the quest and the war on a larger scale, with their experience, wisdom, and greater abilities.
Clementine = Hobbit.
And as much as I like the Hobbit parts, it feels refreshing to get the POV of other types of characters.
And now we go around full circle, lol. That's what I meant from the beginning. I was far more emotionally invested playing as her. I already (pretty much) summed up why above. I think the problem people have had with it also comes from the fact she was already an established character before we played as her. But to me, I could influence her behaviour in anyway I see fit. Whether it was because she became emotionally hardened or that I make her act and think the way Lee would, no Clementine (even the morally questionable one) would be completely out-of-character.
And I brought this up already (and I really don't want to make another long post of it, sorry) but I did sum up my points in this:
i haven't lost my love for clementines character, but i am saying the experience of playing clementine as a character connected to me far le… moress than lee, i didn't feel like i was clementine, i think her being a child is a factor, but i was once a child so i can obviously relate, but she was already defined to me except the missing years, i think a brand new character is just better from a player character perspective, so i can feel like they are my own character more, or feel like they are me.
i thought we had established that emotionally invested and feeling like you were the character were two different things, and from that perspective if feel like my disconnection from clementine (not feeling like i was her) eroded my emotional investment over time.
season one i felt like i was lee i was in those situations and i was making decisions, season two i felt like i was just clicking through a story about Clementine.
and i read the link, but it seems like you have forgotten that season one had no emotional investment to start off with but it was amazing, infact i think having emotional investment made it harder to form bonds with new characters, because it feels less important, whereas with all new characters including the protagonist it would feel more important to figure out what your allegiances are and who everybody is including yourself
And now we go around full circle, lol. That's what I meant from the beginning. I was far more emotionally invested playing as her. I already… more (pretty much) summed up why above. I think the problem people have had with it also comes from the fact she was already an established character before we played as her. But to me, I could influence her behaviour in anyway I see fit. Whether it was because she became emotionally hardened or that I make her act and think the way Lee would, no Clementine (even the morally questionable one) would be completely out-of-character.
And I brought this up already (and I really don't want to make another long post of it, sorry) but I did sum up my points in this:
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/78158/how-clem-can-work-as-the-season-3-protagonist
And yes, I have linked this quite a few times. But it really does sum up my opinion on where the series could go next.
I don't think I'd like it, but I would've also said that I wouldn't like not playing as Lee, either. As long as the next season feels like it has a sense of continuity, I have confidence in Telltale to keep me entertained regardless of the character I'm playing as. Such is the case when playing RPG franchises where I have to pick a new character in the next game.
no season one was Lee's story, clementine was just a plot point in his story ie. someone he had to protect.
kenny was a bigger part of se… moreason one than clementine, so you could more accurately say the whole TWD series by Telltale is Kenny's story.
but it still wouldn't be true, season one was about Lee, 400 days was about Vince, Bonnie, Russell, Wyatt and Shel, season 2 was about clementine.
it may be easier to feel like season ones story was about clementine because Lee died and because once lee died the developers pushed the idea that it was about clementine hard because they felt they needed a season two protagonist and clementine was the best they could come up with, but it was Lee's story.
I wouldn't be against it if there was a time skip and after the time skip the protagonist had been with Clem for some time. If the new protagonist meets Clem sometime during the story, it would be dumb. The reason it would be dumb is because we the player would've known Clem since season one and would be more biased towards siding with Clem, while this new protagonist would have nothing to do with her until he met her, so it would be bad character development.
Main reason why this won't work is based on Clem's leadership skills as a young person. If there was a new protagonist, it'd be awkward to follow someone else's orders. Especially from a little girl.
I think we should face Season 3 with completely new characters and maybe meet up with some familiar ones on the way. I think that they should leave our Clementine's true fate concealed until Season 4 when the new characters and Clementine could meet up, depending on where Clementine ends up at the end of Season 2.
I did have an emotional investment more so than ever before, and it made it more the better for me. Because that's what The Walking Dead is about. And I did actually care for the other characters very much so. But people have always preferred remembering the characters they've been with longer (preferring Kenny over Jane is a prime example) it doesn't mean I don't care about the other characters though. I cared about most of the cabin characters. Especially Luke, Nick and Sarah.
But in regards to feel like you were just clicking through a story about Clementine, that was also a fault from a gameplay perspective above anything this season. The hubs were smaller and it felt more like playing an interactive movie instead of a game this time around. It was obviously Telltale's intent but I don't think it paid off all too well. Especially in In Harm's Way. Where you can actually play the entire episode with just your right hand with how little you do in it.
Forgotten that Season One had no emotional investment? It most certainly did, but it grown since Lee's death since it made the struggle to keep Clementine alive more-so than ever before.
i thought we had established that emotionally invested and feeling like you were the character were two different things, and from that pers… morepective if feel like my disconnection from clementine (not feeling like i was her) eroded my emotional investment over time.
season one i felt like i was lee i was in those situations and i was making decisions, season two i felt like i was just clicking through a story about Clementine.
and i read the link, but it seems like you have forgotten that season one had no emotional investment to start off with but it was amazing, infact i think having emotional investment made it harder to form bonds with new characters, because it feels less important, whereas with all new characters including the protagonist it would feel more important to figure out what your allegiances are and who everybody is including yourself
Yeah exactly! I really just couldnt see myself playing as anyone else at this point. I dont know how telltale is gonna handle the different endings though.. Probably a timeskip or something
If it happens,I want to see Clem behave differently with us based on the person we made her become. If you made her become a lone survivor w… moreho doesn't trust anyone anymore, she wouldn't help us if we needed her and she could even let us die. But if we made her become a kind and compassionate person who likes to be in a group, she would always have our back and she would save our life.
I feel that this would be great for the evolution of her character and how we see her because in season 1 and 2 we get to raise her, in season 3 it would be good to see the payoff.
i said had no emotional investment to start with, not that the whole season had none, in fact the people who wrote it said they put clementine in the game so we would get emotionally invested and not just want to leave the group we were in (go full jane or molly) when they got crazy, because we would need them to keep clementine safe, which season two didn't really have (a reason to stay with the group).
i think you have a good point about there being less hubs and it feeling more like an interactive story, a weird way i noticed this more is because i smoke, and i would often think that i hadn't had any time to feel more relaxed and have a smoke while playing this season, as i would usually smoke during the exploration/conversation areas or hub areas, i feel like all games need smoke break times in them, and not just for the smoking for the pacing as well.
Now we've covered two laps in this circle.
I did have an emotional investment more so than ever before, and it made it more the better fo… morer me. Because that's what The Walking Dead is about. And I did actually care for the other characters very much so. But people have always preferred remembering the characters they've been with longer (preferring Kenny over Jane is a prime example) it doesn't mean I don't care about the other characters though. I cared about most of the cabin characters. Especially Luke, Nick and Sarah.
But in regards to feel like you were just clicking through a story about Clementine, that was also a fault from a gameplay perspective above anything this season. The hubs were smaller and it felt more like playing an interactive movie instead of a game this time around. It was obviously Telltale's intent but I don't think it paid off all too well. Especially in In Harm's Way. Where you can actually play the entire epis… [view original content]
But I do get where you're coming from in the sense of no emotional investment to start of with (obviously) 400 Days I honestly had no emotional investment in any of the main characters. I do think that was partially intent though.
Telltale should keep making the games the way they are now and you'll probably end up quit smoking. :P Sorry about that. But yeah, Amid the Ruins seemed to have finally taken notes on that and to a lesser extent, No Going Back. Was a little too late though. And as it stands, they're the two episodes of Season Two with the most mixed reception. So I'm not all too positive they'll go in that direction now. Unless they are proper-proper hubs that you spend a good portion of the episode in (like the Everett's in the very first episode) other than that, Telltale are in a tough situation. Funnily, my least favourite episode of not only Season Two, but the entire franchise, In Harm's Way, was the highest rated episode this season.
i said had no emotional investment to start with, not that the whole season had none, in fact the people who wrote it said they put clementi… morene in the game so we would get emotionally invested and not just want to leave the group we were in (go full jane or molly) when they got crazy, because we would need them to keep clementine safe, which season two didn't really have (a reason to stay with the group).
i think you have a good point about there being less hubs and it feeling more like an interactive story, a weird way i noticed this more is because i smoke, and i would often think that i hadn't had any time to feel more relaxed and have a smoke while playing this season, as i would usually smoke during the exploration/conversation areas or hub areas, i feel like all games need smoke break times in them, and not just for the smoking for the pacing as well.
Comments
Clementine and Clemetine ONLY
Clem has already been a deuteragonist once, what is the point of her being one again? I think she should just stay being the protagonist.
I'll stick with Clementine the girl is gold.
Best comment in this thread
Didn't Tolkien say that Samwise was the true hero in LOTR though?
frodo's story was sort of the most boring parts, samwise is an excellent friend, but frodo is a bit of a drag, anyway i digress, i think a new non defined character would be better than clementine, they would be more of our own character, unless we HAD to have a child, then clementine would be better
i haven't lost my love for clementines character, but i am saying the experience of playing clementine as a character connected to me far less than lee, i didn't feel like i was clementine, i think her being a child is a factor, but i was once a child so i can obviously relate, but she was already defined to me except the missing years, i think a brand new character is just better from a player character perspective, so i can feel like they are my own character more, or feel like they are me.
Maybe not Arvo, but it would be interesting playing as someone who has an injury, like a broken bone or just a bum leg/arm. It would be interesting to see how someone like that survives.
He did ? Perhaps. I only took this LOTR example to illustrate how a story benefits from different point of views.
We get to see how the humble, small Hobbits normally not fit for adventures deal with literally having the fate of the world in their hands, and that was refreshing at a time Heroic Fantasy was all about Knights and warriors, but we still get a taste of how the "greater" people handle the quest and the war on a larger scale, with their experience, wisdom, and greater abilities.
Clementine = Hobbit.
And as much as I like the Hobbit parts, it feels refreshing to get the POV of other types of characters.
And now we go around full circle, lol. That's what I meant from the beginning. I was far more emotionally invested playing as her. I already (pretty much) summed up why above. I think the problem people have had with it also comes from the fact she was already an established character before we played as her. But to me, I could influence her behaviour in anyway I see fit. Whether it was because she became emotionally hardened or that I make her act and think the way Lee would, no Clementine (even the morally questionable one) would be completely out-of-character.
And I brought this up already (and I really don't want to make another long post of it, sorry) but I did sum up my points in this:
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/78158/how-clem-can-work-as-the-season-3-protagonist
And yes, I have linked this quite a few times. But it really does sum up my opinion on where the series could go next.
no thank you I only want to play as clementine
i thought we had established that emotionally invested and feeling like you were the character were two different things, and from that perspective if feel like my disconnection from clementine (not feeling like i was her) eroded my emotional investment over time.
season one i felt like i was lee i was in those situations and i was making decisions, season two i felt like i was just clicking through a story about Clementine.
and i read the link, but it seems like you have forgotten that season one had no emotional investment to start off with but it was amazing, infact i think having emotional investment made it harder to form bonds with new characters, because it feels less important, whereas with all new characters including the protagonist it would feel more important to figure out what your allegiances are and who everybody is including yourself
We could run into Clem and Christa during that 16 month time skip
I don't think I'd like it, but I would've also said that I wouldn't like not playing as Lee, either. As long as the next season feels like it has a sense of continuity, I have confidence in Telltale to keep me entertained regardless of the character I'm playing as. Such is the case when playing RPG franchises where I have to pick a new character in the next game.
I view it as a story about survival and how EVERY character gets through the apocalypse. I don't view it as any one character's story.
I wouldn't be against it if there was a time skip and after the time skip the protagonist had been with Clem for some time. If the new protagonist meets Clem sometime during the story, it would be dumb. The reason it would be dumb is because we the player would've known Clem since season one and would be more biased towards siding with Clem, while this new protagonist would have nothing to do with her until he met her, so it would be bad character development.
agreed 100%
Main reason why this won't work is based on Clem's leadership skills as a young person. If there was a new protagonist, it'd be awkward to follow someone else's orders. Especially from a little girl.
I think we should face Season 3 with completely new characters and maybe meet up with some familiar ones on the way. I think that they should leave our Clementine's true fate concealed until Season 4 when the new characters and Clementine could meet up, depending on where Clementine ends up at the end of Season 2.
She still says she's 8.
Telltale obviously has no idea about how school works.
Now we've covered two laps in this circle.
I did have an emotional investment more so than ever before, and it made it more the better for me. Because that's what The Walking Dead is about. And I did actually care for the other characters very much so. But people have always preferred remembering the characters they've been with longer (preferring Kenny over Jane is a prime example) it doesn't mean I don't care about the other characters though. I cared about most of the cabin characters. Especially Luke, Nick and Sarah.
But in regards to feel like you were just clicking through a story about Clementine, that was also a fault from a gameplay perspective above anything this season. The hubs were smaller and it felt more like playing an interactive movie instead of a game this time around. It was obviously Telltale's intent but I don't think it paid off all too well. Especially in In Harm's Way. Where you can actually play the entire episode with just your right hand with how little you do in it.
Forgotten that Season One had no emotional investment? It most certainly did, but it grown since Lee's death since it made the struggle to keep Clementine alive more-so than ever before.
But we are Clementine!
What the fuck? 31 upvotes? O.o
That's probably a continuity error.
32 now
Kinda scary. I think it might be my most upvoted comment of all time.
Yeah exactly! I really just couldnt see myself playing as anyone else at this point. I dont know how telltale is gonna handle the different endings though.. Probably a timeskip or something
You are all making me mad.
Diversity is so underrated...
Ha. Could be.
Lee: Don't trust anybody...
Jane: Don't let them pull you down with them.
Clementine: Don't trust anybody.
Lee: Always keep moving.
Kenny: You're as stubborn as a damn mule.
Clementine: I wonder where I got that from?
i said had no emotional investment to start with, not that the whole season had none, in fact the people who wrote it said they put clementine in the game so we would get emotionally invested and not just want to leave the group we were in (go full jane or molly) when they got crazy, because we would need them to keep clementine safe, which season two didn't really have (a reason to stay with the group).
i think you have a good point about there being less hubs and it feeling more like an interactive story, a weird way i noticed this more is because i smoke, and i would often think that i hadn't had any time to feel more relaxed and have a smoke while playing this season, as i would usually smoke during the exploration/conversation areas or hub areas, i feel like all games need smoke break times in them, and not just for the smoking for the pacing as well.
But I do get where you're coming from in the sense of no emotional investment to start of with (obviously) 400 Days I honestly had no emotional investment in any of the main characters. I do think that was partially intent though.
Telltale should keep making the games the way they are now and you'll probably end up quit smoking. :P Sorry about that. But yeah, Amid the Ruins seemed to have finally taken notes on that and to a lesser extent, No Going Back. Was a little too late though. And as it stands, they're the two episodes of Season Two with the most mixed reception. So I'm not all too positive they'll go in that direction now. Unless they are proper-proper hubs that you spend a good portion of the episode in (like the Everett's in the very first episode) other than that, Telltale are in a tough situation. Funnily, my least favourite episode of not only Season Two, but the entire franchise, In Harm's Way, was the highest rated episode this season.