Well i'm slightly older than you, and here is the truth. Guys like girls that are easy, but we don't want to marry them. I used to think that way too when i was in my young 20s, but now that i'm older, i am just looking for acceptance.
Thanks man, I've heard mixed things that guys don't want a naive chick, that they want well versed hoes down for anything. -__- But I know a… more few guys who have really respected my decision to wait, so I know not every guy wants a girl who's DTF on the first date. Honestly, I've had a lot of guys lose interest after I said I don't put out, like, I'm saving myself for my husband, it's not a religious thing, despite me being spiritual. I just know in this day and age, it's totally accepted and even expected that people do stuff before marriage, and more people kinda look for hookups over real solid connections. Which I don't care if people hookup, it's whatever IMO.
See, that's exactly what I mean! I can't tell you how many guys I've talked to and they were expecting me to be that kinda chick right there! Like one dude asked me to come over to his house after I posted a profile picture once, he was like, oh yeah we can just watch some movies o… [view original content]
my problem with losing some weight is that I would be absolutely heart broken if a man suddenly noticed me after losing weight.
That is when you throw it up in their face and say, look how great i look. You turn it back on them. There are some great Maury Povich Episodes where people do this, you should see how empowered these women feel.
I still can't believe it, I seriously can't believe that I'm not ugly
Your not, your just a person. Try to be happy with being you, don't focus on a man because are useless. Trust me. Once you put some time into working on you, you will start to notice all your good points. As people i think we are our own worst enemies, remember happiness is only a state of mind. The only person in the world preventing you from being happy is you. Soo, try not to be so hard on yourself.
Working out/eating better for you and your happiness, a man is second priority as far as I'm concerned
I think everyone in their life struggles with finding some sort of happiness in their life, I agree with you though, Everyone should try to find peace with themselves, the best anyone can.
I've always been told that men are attracted to self confidence, when you feel good about yourself, it's like they can sense it. And yeah, I… more can't discredit that there are men who only look out the outside before the inside, but there are plenty of men who do the opposite. I only suggest working out/eating better for you and your happiness, a man is second priority as far as I'm concerned. That is such a callous thing to say to a friend, I can't imagine ever saying that to anyone.
I tried Christian Mingle and Match as well, I got a bunch of weird guys on Christian Mingle and a bunch of old horny dudes on Match. XD That's why I'm done with internet dating/chatting.
Plus, lets not forget all the women (and possibly men) who have been used by their partner just for pleasure and sex. They looked for a connection, and the partner just wanted the pleasure of using them as a ***bucket. That is the kind of distraught that comes from a culture that worships sex and casual hook-ups.
Sex during a dating relationship is way to dangerous. A lot of high schoolers date, you know, and lets be honest; not a lot of high school … morestudents know how to treat those things properly, because frankly they aren't mature enough to.
It is BECAUSE society is all about sex is why relationships fall apart. I have a friend, a Christian friend, who in the past had sex with three people. Now? He is just an empty shell with no hope. He feels dirty, sick, like a failure. It left him as a heap of depression, all because he had so much influencing forces. He grew up in a Christian home too, which looked down upon such things. Hook-up culture is NOT HEALTHY in any relationship at all. I have seen dating relationships where sex was common, and when one partner wasn't in the mood for sex or simply didn't want to do sex for an amount of time, it completely tore down their relationship... why? Because the pillar keeping them up was pure physi… [view original content]
Sex in dating relationships is fine, if you care about the person. That's just how some people connect early on.
Sex shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. It is important in a relationship and not everyone treats it as something to save for the person they marry. Some people just want to have fun and not have the responsibility of a relationship, so they like to try things out without getting tied down. It's actually good to experiment before you go into a committed relationship, so you can understand what you like in a partner better.
If a man and a woman want pleasure without any emotional attachment involved and they use protection, what's the big deal?
Sex during a dating relationship is way to dangerous. A lot of high schoolers date, you know, and lets be honest; not a lot of high school … morestudents know how to treat those things properly, because frankly they aren't mature enough to.
It is BECAUSE society is all about sex is why relationships fall apart. I have a friend, a Christian friend, who in the past had sex with three people. Now? He is just an empty shell with no hope. He feels dirty, sick, like a failure. It left him as a heap of depression, all because he had so much influencing forces. He grew up in a Christian home too, which looked down upon such things. Hook-up culture is NOT HEALTHY in any relationship at all. I have seen dating relationships where sex was common, and when one partner wasn't in the mood for sex or simply didn't want to do sex for an amount of time, it completely tore down their relationship... why? Because the pillar keeping them up was pure physi… [view original content]
I have a friend, a Christian friend, who in the past had sex with three people. Now? He is just an empty shell with no hope. He feels dirty, sick, like a failure.
I want to give you a longer and more complete answer (I have some urgent things at school so I'm a little backed up on replying here and a lot of other things). But he/she might be blaming the wrong thing. I know you're a devout Christian, but maybe his guilt, especially feelings of dirtiness or sickness are not from the sex itself but from his religion's view of sex. I doubt I'm not going to persuade you out of your beliefs, and I don't know the specifics of your thoughts or those of your friends, but that one place, personally, with all due respect, I believe Christianity is harmful.
I'm not saying sex isn't risky, it really is both physically and emotionally, you can become emotionally attached to your partner (even in something as brief as a one night stand), and it can be emotionally painful - the physical risks are obvious. But feeling guilty over the act of sexuality, I don't think speaks ill of sexuality, but of Christianity.
As I said, people become attached, and it's very easy to become hurt with sexuality, and that's why it needs to be treated with caution. A good friend of mine said romantic relationships were a communication in body, mind, and heart; I agree (though how important each aspect is depends on the person) - when those desires don't match up or are misunderstood, it's undoubtly painful; and I agree the pillar of (a long-term) relationship shouldn't be physical it should be a combination of the three I mentioned about. Personally, mind is the most important for me, so even more than an emotion or spiritual or physical connection, I want an intellectual connection; but that's my decision about me (and, ideally, my lover), other might be more passionate, spiritual, or even physical. That, even the physcial, may go into what you're saying about 'trust,' but religious guilt doesn't help the equation.
Sex during a dating relationship is way to dangerous. A lot of high schoolers date, you know, and lets be honest; not a lot of high school … morestudents know how to treat those things properly, because frankly they aren't mature enough to.
It is BECAUSE society is all about sex is why relationships fall apart. I have a friend, a Christian friend, who in the past had sex with three people. Now? He is just an empty shell with no hope. He feels dirty, sick, like a failure. It left him as a heap of depression, all because he had so much influencing forces. He grew up in a Christian home too, which looked down upon such things. Hook-up culture is NOT HEALTHY in any relationship at all. I have seen dating relationships where sex was common, and when one partner wasn't in the mood for sex or simply didn't want to do sex for an amount of time, it completely tore down their relationship... why? Because the pillar keeping them up was pure physi… [view original content]
If a man and a woman want pleasure without any emotional attachment involved and they use protection, what's the big deal?
It's not; the big deal is that society treats it all the same. Society and media is VERY influential, and it's not fair for the ones who put sex to a higher standard (all those Christians out there). I've known two friends in the past year who have been used by sex and had sex because of those influencing factors, and they are in a darker place because of it. I have to spend a lot of my time dedicated to making them feel better because every they seem to be in a state of depression every time I've seen them, and it's because of what they did, what happened to them, and their guilt and regret for it.
If two people want to have sex for pleasure and not put anything into any kind of developing relationship, then have at it. But society treats it like it's something that EVERYONE wants, and that influence causes situations like my friend's to happen, and it's not fair.
It is important in a relationship
No, it's not. It's not necessary for a dating relationship. You can't say that I can't have a successful relationship without sex.
It's actually good to experiment before you go into a committed relationship
How? "Let's see how you preform in bed before I date you."? How is that a leading factor in a committed relationship? If you have sex with a girl/guy before being girlfriend/boyfriend, then you decide to date them, then one day you find out you don't like being around them because they too clingy or too pushy or too whiney, how has sexual activity improved your chances of being with this person? Sex does not improve chances of being in a more committing relationship, sex is just a toothpick of a pillar that holds relationships together during dating or before.
Sex in dating relationships is fine, if you care about the person. That's just how some people connect early on.
Sex shouldn't be somethi… moreng to be ashamed of. It is important in a relationship and not everyone treats it as something to save for the person they marry. Some people just want to have fun and not have the responsibility of a relationship, so they like to try things out without getting tied down. It's actually good to experiment before you go into a committed relationship, so you can understand what you like in a partner better.
If a man and a woman want pleasure without any emotional attachment involved and they use protection, what's the big deal?
Thank you for your words. Though I will say, what you're saying comes close to what I keep hearing about "women like confidence." I've come, I think, to differentiate 'confidence' from 'self-esteem.' Confidence being the 'I can do it,', self-esteem being 'I'm worthy of being loved.' - I value the latter, not the former (though obviously a lack of 'I can do it' is a problem and may very well connote a lack of self-esteem.) Though I don't say loser so much self-disparagingly as with acknowledgement of not I don't have qualities generally popular or attractive to women. Actually, it's halfway a term of pride.
I've worked a lot on my self-esteem, and part of why I'm taking the course is for that reason - while I feel like lately I've gained a good deal of self esteem, I keep hearing that I'm too fat, my hair is too long, and I'm too girly to date anyone. Then they'll tell me I lack 'confidence.' Though reading this article I did think a lot, I'm not sure how I feel about it, just a lot to think about. I just read it, and it actually brings up a lot of the things I discuss with my therapist, so I'm not sure exactly where to go, but it does get me thinking.
I've tried some dating website - I don't know any reliable free ones in Korea. I've gone to some 'meetings' (a gathering of singles), with no success. I'll probably keep trying (my recent weight gain is taking huge toll on my self esteem, and my thesis on my free time). Maybe if I lose some weight and finish school I'll try again, but for the next two months at least it's bearing down on study. Even after that it'll still probably be a crapshoot, but a least a crapshoot I can keep taking.
I'm pretty much a loser
You are not a loser, let me tell you something about women. If you don't believe in yourself, you will nev… moreer get a woman. Anyone can get a woman, its not hard and your a smart guy so just believe in yourself. There was a guy that i know was shot in the face with a shotgun, and he got a girlfriend. So be optimistic.
All you need is a Facebook/ some sort of online web dating service, i tend to use Christian Mingle myself, because i got a std from a girl on Match. Write yourself your perfect flirt message, then copy/paste it to every girl that tickles your fancy, eventually you will get that date. Target girls in their late 20s. In my opinion that is the perfect dating age, like 26. Dating anyone under 21, you might as well call it babysitting.
I have to say bro, i give you credit on taking such a class, i have my problems like everyone else, but it takes real courage to put yourself out there like that.
My other friend who was used by sex is agnostic. He was suicidal right after. I was on a hunting trip and I tried my best to persuade him out of it, with some success... being that he is still alive.
I have a friend, a Christian friend, who in the past had sex with three people. Now? He is just an empty shell with no hope. He feels dirty,… more sick, like a failure.
I want to give you a longer and more complete answer (I have some urgent things at school so I'm a little backed up on replying here and a lot of other things). But he/she might be blaming the wrong thing. I know you're a devout Christian, but maybe his guilt, especially feelings of dirtiness or sickness are not from the sex itself but from his religion's view of sex. I doubt I'm not going to persuade you out of your beliefs, and I don't know the specifics of your thoughts or those of your friends, but that one place, personally, with all due respect, I believe Christianity is harmful.
I'm not saying sex isn't risky, it really is both physically and emotionally, you can become emotionally attached to your partner (even in something as brief as a one night stand), and it c… [view original content]
I'm sorry to hear about your friend - I deal with a lot of those feelings and it's very difficult. I don't know the details of the agnostic friend you mentioned, or the Christian friend you mentioned; but there is a big difference between having sex and being "used by sex." I don't know the specifics, but that sounds like the emotional danger I was referring to. It's especially dangerous when one party misunderstands the emotional involvement of the other party. I'm not saying sexuality isn't risky, emotionally or physically; just that to condemn it altogether is not good either. Even if both parties says "we're just doing this for shortime fun" the other party can develop feelings.
In any case, I hope your friend feels better - there are both hotlines (which don't seem good longterm), or other people he/she can talk to, even at school. It's really tricky (you've said you were still in school right?) - teachers and guidance counselors have a duty to report those kind of feelings, either to the police or to the parents, and in my school there was a lot of trouble when that law wasn't obeyed fully, but finding an experience adult who he/she can talk to is key, whether it be guidance counselor, parent, or teacher. I didn't get help until I left home, but I'm not sure it that was the best thing.
My other friend who was used by sex is agnostic. He was suicidal right after. I was on a hunting trip and I tried my best to persuade him out of it, with some success... being that he is still alive.
About Christianity being harmful, it's not harmful in general; it's harmful when people realize their crime and forget that they are forgiven for it. Jesus is all about forgiving the past; believe in him and the past is gone, you are forgiven, and you are a new person.
He often forgets that, and he needs encouragement.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend - I deal with a lot of those feelings and it's very difficult. I don't know the details of the agnostic … morefriend you mentioned, or the Christian friend you mentioned; but there is a big difference between having sex and being "used by sex." I don't know the specifics, but that sounds like the emotional danger I was referring to. It's especially dangerous when one party misunderstands the emotional involvement of the other party. I'm not saying sexuality isn't risky, emotionally or physically; just that to condemn it altogether is not good either. Even if both parties says "we're just doing this for shortime fun" the other party can develop feelings.
In any case, I hope your friend feels better - there are both hotlines (which don't seem good longterm), or other people he/she can talk to, even at school. It's really tricky (you've said you were still in school right?) - teachers and guidance counselors have… [view original content]
I'm not sure that applies, both in Christian and in secular terms.
Iconically, in regard to the adultress, Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast to the first stone," but to her he said "Go forth and sin no more." - the point is that he found what she was living in sin. She cannot continue her ways even if (hypothetically) they were satisfying to her (replace adultry with a different sin if you like). "When people realize their crime." - what is or is not crime is dependant on Christrian belief. To simply say he is forgiving of the past is too easily used as an excuse. The Protestant reply is that one truly has faith in Jesus he/she will live in accordance to the Law, but my main criticism is with the Law itself - that that which is declared sin in Christianity is, on the whole, ultimately harmful to human wellbeing. There are certainly values to Christian teaching; but there are a lot of value to similar, non-religious teachings.
About Christianity being harmful, it's not harmful in general; it's harmful when people realize their crime and forget that they are forgive… moren for it. Jesus is all about forgiving the past; believe in him and the past is gone, you are forgiven, and you are a new person.
He often forgets that, and he needs encouragement.
The way I see it, sex shouldn't happen in a relationship ideally until you're wedding night, or at least until after a year or two into the relationship. I think sex is second priority to making a connection/falling in love with this person. As far as an unexpected pregnancy goes, it should be a happy accident if you're married, but if you're not ready to have children then you should always use protection. And if it happens anyway and you're in a longterm relationship..well, it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Bringing life into the world is one of the most beautiful things that a woman can do.
Before y'all diss the hook-up culture too much....
There's another danger out there, and that's getting into a long-term relationship too… more soon. That might be an "Oops, pregnant, guess we have to get married" scenario, or just a belief that you're not thrilled with this person but don't think you deserve any better, so might as well.
Then a few years go by, and you see society still pushing sex, sex, sex, and you never got to do much, so you begin to think you missed out.
I've seen this situation blow many couples apart, where those who had gotten a bit more experience before deciding on The One are more confident that they know what's out there and are in a pretty good spot themselves.
Not saying that means you should go have sex with anyone and everyone. There is some balance, of course. Sex can be dangerous and requires some responsibility, or you wind up in that Oops Pregnant spot. And you have to make sure your expectation… [view original content]
I don't mean to generalize men, because I know how it feels to be generalized as a woman. I'm simply saying from my personal experiences, men are physical creatures and sex and appearance will always be first. And if a woman doesn't have that, she's worthless in their eyes. Which, honestly, I don't care if that's true and no one will admit it, it would just help put my own fears at ease if a man just straight up told me that, that way I'd know to just throw in the towel and admit when I've got no hope.
Well i'm slightly older than you, and here is the truth. Guys like girls that are easy, but we don't want to marry them. I used to think t… morehat way too when i was in my young 20s, but now that i'm older, i am just looking for acceptance.
Your priorities change when you get older.
@Tinni
Thanks girlfran for all the advice. :> Every time I ever tried to get healthy and lose weight, it was always stemming from a rejection. I've never been able to get myself losing weight for myself, because I just don't really care anymore I guess. I've always been fat, it would be weird to be any other way at this point. I can't imagine being fit or skinny, I already have issues with people looking at me, and if I had a nice body I would more than likely never leave my house or dress in sweats for the rest of my life. I know I need to do it for myself, but I don't think I'm worth it to be honest.
@CrazyGeorge
That's the thing, is knowing that my worth suddenly went up because I became physically attractive would further my dislike for people. It would prove the point I'm mortified of. If I'm physically attractive I'm suddenly worth something, but as I am now, I'm worthless. I'm most happy working on my personal projects, my writing, my drawing, nothing in this world even compares to how happy my novels and art makes me. I know I'm the problem, and I need to fix myself, but I'm too far gone at this point, I've literally spent my entire life despising myself. Up until probably last year was the first time I felt I could be okay with who I am, because I wasn't like everyone else. Because what makes me most happy are my novels and characters, and I've felt ashamed of that my whole life up until this past year. So, trying not to be so hard on myself is a lot easier said than done. And at this point, I really don't think I'll ever be able to undue the amount of hatred I've filled myself with for myself. I know things could always be so much worse, and I know everyone has their inner demons.
my problem with losing some weight is that I would be absolutely heart broken if a man suddenly noticed me after losing weight.
That… more is when you throw it up in their face and say, look how great i look. You turn it back on them. There are some great Maury Povich Episodes where people do this, you should see how empowered these women feel.
I still can't believe it, I seriously can't believe that I'm not ugly
Your not, your just a person. Try to be happy with being you, don't focus on a man because are useless. Trust me. Once you put some time into working on you, you will start to notice all your good points. As people i think we are our own worst enemies, remember happiness is only a state of mind. The only person in the world preventing you from being happy is you. Soo, try not to be so hard on yourself.
Working out/eating better for you and your happiness, a man is second priority as far as I'm concer… [view original content]
Its not true. People are people, and are attracted to people for many reasons, I'm not going to lie that looks don't play a role in some relationships. However, i think it really depends on the person. My first wife was my best friend, she wasn't the typical girl i would date. She was extremely nerdy and into fantasy, horses etc. It wasn't the person i would normally fall for.
Though through the course of our friendship we got to know each other and we had that connection and feelings started to develop.
I don't mean to generalize men, because I know how it feels to be generalized as a woman. I'm simply saying from my personal experiences, me… moren are physical creatures and sex and appearance will always be first. And if a woman doesn't have that, she's worthless in their eyes. Which, honestly, I don't care if that's true and no one will admit it, it would just help put my own fears at ease if a man just straight up told me that, that way I'd know to just throw in the towel and admit when I've got no hope.
The way I see it, sex shouldn't happen in a relationship ideally until you're wedding night, or at least until after a year or two into the … morerelationship. I think sex is second priority to making a connection/falling in love with this person. As far as an unexpected pregnancy goes, it should be a happy accident if you're married, but if you're not ready to have children then you should always use protection. And if it happens anyway and you're in a longterm relationship..well, it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Bringing life into the world is one of the most beautiful things that a woman can do.
I think it depends on the context really. As long as it is a direct product of the love felt between the two individuals, I personally don't have an issue with it as long as they are ready for it. I think it goes back to Tinni's overall point that "sex is second priority to making a connection/ falling in love". A true relationship should not be based on/ dependent upon the physical aspect. I suppose one could argue that having sexual relations too early in a relationship could put this at risk. I think it varies between couples though. Some couples become ready faster than others.
To clarify here, there are guys out there that will legit break up with a girl if they are ever denied the physical aspect of the relationship. Any guy that is truly invested and interested in his partner will not be reliant on having such a thing.
I think it depends on the context really. As long as it is a direct product of the love felt between the two individuals, I personally don't… more have an issue with it as long as they are ready for it. I think it goes back to Tinni's overall point that "sex is second priority to making a connection/ falling in love". A true relationship should not be based on/ dependent upon the physical aspect. I suppose one could argue that having sexual relations too early in a relationship could put this at risk. I think it varies between couples though. Some couples become ready faster than others.
To clarify here, there are guys out there that will legit break up with a girl if they are ever denied the physical aspect of the relationship. Any guy that is truly invested and interested in his partner will not be reliant on having such a thing.
Well, Belan did a good job of explaining it, but I'll weigh in seeing as you asked me. I believe that sex is something that should be shared with the person you love, and are in love with. As I said before, I think the physical part of a relationship should come a year or more after the relationship has begun. That way you know for sure that you are in love with this person, and are happy with them even without the sexual aspect in your relationship. You don't have to wait until marriage, but as a woman, I also believe that saving it for the man you plan to marry makes the wedding night all the more special. I'm pretty old fashioned about these kind of things.
I don't really know how to word my thought process about it, other than I think that the only man whom I want to have sex with is my husband. I don't want to share it with anyone else, and if a man was feeling that way about a woman and we were dating, I wouldn't want to tempt him to break that promise with himself or his future wife even if it wasn't me he'd end up marrying. I simply think that emotionally, it should only be shared between a husband and wife.
Well, Belan did a good job of explaining it, but I'll weigh in seeing as you asked me. I believe that sex is something that should be shared… more with the person you love, and are in love with. As I said before, I think the physical part of a relationship should come a year or more after the relationship has begun. That way you know for sure that you are in love with this person, and are happy with them even without the sexual aspect in your relationship. You don't have to wait until marriage, but as a woman, I also believe that saving it for the man you plan to marry makes the wedding night all the more special. I'm pretty old fashioned about these kind of things.
What you see as "harmful" we see as "freeing". What you see as "pleasure" we see as "slavery". We are a slave to our sins and desires, except that we choose this life.
I'm not sure that applies, both in Christian and in secular terms.
Iconically, in regard to the adultress, Jesus said "Let he who is with… moreout sin cast to the first stone," but to her he said "Go forth and sin no more." - the point is that he found what she was living in sin. She cannot continue her ways even if (hypothetically) they were satisfying to her (replace adultry with a different sin if you like). "When people realize their crime." - what is or is not crime is dependant on Christrian belief. To simply say he is forgiving of the past is too easily used as an excuse. The Protestant reply is that one truly has faith in Jesus he/she will live in accordance to the Law, but my main criticism is with the Law itself - that that which is declared sin in Christianity is, on the whole, ultimately harmful to human wellbeing. There are certainly values to Christian teaching; but there are a lot of value to similar, non-religious teachings.
In my experience in dating, you often have to be blunt with them about what it is you're looking for in a relationship.
In my experience, if more women were like this the process would go a whole lot smoother, particularly in the beginning. Most men are so conscious of fucking things up that they don't even know where to start. I found this picture and found it funny, so I'll share it:
What I'm saying is that men are very physical beings, this doesn't automatically mean having sexual relations, but that they aren't mind rea… moreders. In my experience in dating, you often have to be blunt with them about what it is you're looking for in a relationship. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, because honestly, being a girl, I know that I can be pretty damn complicated and hard to read at times. When I say dating isn't the same anymore, what I'm saying is that it isn't taken as seriously. People start dating because they think a girl/boy is hot, want to have sex, or just for the sake of having a boyfriend/girlfriend nowadays. For me, dating is not something to be taken lightly. I believe you should get to know someone as a friend first, and then when you are sure that you like this person for more than their looks, then you start to date. Dating is to see if this person is marriage material, and if they don't want that out o… [view original content]
lol that picture is funny( I actually knew a girl who would come to these conclusions with her boyfriend), but it's also pretty accurate. I've only dated two guys, but I had to be very clear when I was communicating with them so they understood exactly what I was conveying, and exactly what I wanted. And I don't think it's an inconvenience that I had to be blunt, nor was I surprised or expecting them to know what I was thinking. It's common knowledge that women are more intuitive, and are better at reading situations emotionally then men. Men and women are different is all.:P
In my experience in dating, you often have to be blunt with them about what it is you're looking for in a relationship.
In my experi… moreence, if more women were like this the process would go a whole lot smoother, particularly in the beginning. Most men are so conscious of fucking things up that they don't even know where to start. I found this picture and found it funny, so I'll share it:
lol that picture is funny( I actually knew a girl who would come to these conclusions with her boyfriend)
I've known a few like that as well. It never ends well, lol.
but I had to be very clear when I was communicating with them so they understood. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that I have to be blunt, nor am I surprised or expect them to know what I'm thinking.
Definitely keep being blunt when communicating important ideas to guys; mind games, half answers, and medieval style court intrigue will only lead to a lot of confusion, and probably anger.
We're different is all.:P
And those differences are only a bad thing if we make them one. Tackling them with understanding, not resentment like some people seem to do, is the best way to keep things running smoothly with everyone happy. This seems to be your approach, a commendable one indeed, and hopefully one that'll bring you happiness. Don't want to end up like your friend, lol.
lol that picture is funny( I actually knew a girl who would come to these conclusions with her boyfriend), but it's also pretty accurate. I'… moreve only dated two guys, but I had to be very clear when I was communicating with them so they understood exactly what I was conveying, and exactly what I wanted. And I don't think it's an inconvenience that I had to be blunt, nor was I surprised or expecting them to know what I was thinking. It's common knowledge that women are more intuitive, and are better at reading situations emotionally then men. Men and women are different is all.:P
Wow, my finger is not on the pulse of America. While I admit hookup culture is dangerous, emotionally and physically, so is the opposite. When the whole 'save it until marriage' came out, people were getting married during high school (trust me, in history class we had to look through 1950's yearbooks). In America, I think the average age of first kiss and first sexual experience are something like 14 and 17 respectively, and in Korea it's around 17 and 22 respectively. I think one is perhaps too early, the other is a bit late. But people are going to have sexual desire from their early teens. I know I did in high school, and that's not to say I should have acted upon it, I didn't (not that I had opportunity to), but a lot of people talk about college as when people usually are intimate. To me that sounds about right. Though, like I said, it's dangerous physically, and especially when time is considered, emotionally. Yes, people (unless they both are just looking for the physical, wham bahm thank you m'am) probably should wait to make sure both parties are on the same page about the seriousness of the relationship, but a year sounds a bit on the long side to me. Not that people should feel pressure to have sex if they aren't ready, but, if people feel that they are ready, sex is a fundamental part of human relationships. Moreover, when both parties feel so, it is a means of sharing emotional and physical intimacy. The separation of love and sexuality is a damaging and unfortunate myth. I'm probably putting words in your mouth, and given my track record, I really am in no position to talk, but that's my opinion.
The way I see it, sex shouldn't happen in a relationship ideally until you're wedding night, or at least until after a year or two into the … morerelationship. I think sex is second priority to making a connection/falling in love with this person. As far as an unexpected pregnancy goes, it should be a happy accident if you're married, but if you're not ready to have children then you should always use protection. And if it happens anyway and you're in a longterm relationship..well, it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Bringing life into the world is one of the most beautiful things that a woman can do.
We all have our opinions on the matter. Mine are largely shaped by my fundamental values and morals in life, and though I see your pov, I don't plan on abandoning them. And the 1950's were just that, the 1950's. Things are very different now, but seeing as you brought it up, one must recognize the environment teens grew up in back then, they tended to mature emotionally and physically a lot faster than teens today. Personally, I think a year is a good time period, because if they've stuck with you for that long, they're interested in you for more than sex. But as I said before, this is simply my opinion. Sexual activity is the fundamental part of a physical relationship, not a romantic relationship. I'm not saying they have to wait, but I can count on both hands how many female friends I have that have regretted losing their virginity to boys they were sure they were in love with, but had only dated for a few months. The worst thing about my generation is that the significance of virginity and how personal and special it is to share it with only one person is downplayed, looked down upon, nearly demonized, and given a bad reputation. These days if you haven't lost it before graduating high school or at least in college, you are either a prude, or incapable of "getting any".
Wow, my finger is not on the pulse of America. While I admit hookup culture is dangerous, emotionally and physically, so is the opposite. Wh… moreen the whole 'save it until marriage' came out, people were getting married during high school (trust me, in history class we had to look through 1950's yearbooks). In America, I think the average age of first kiss and first sexual experience are something like 14 and 17 respectively, and in Korea it's around 17 and 22 respectively. I think one is perhaps too early, the other is a bit late. But people are going to have sexual desire from their early teens. I know I did in high school, and that's not to say I should have acted upon it, I didn't (not that I had opportunity to), but a lot of people talk about college as when people usually are intimate. To me that sounds about right. Though, like I said, it's dangerous physically, and especially when time is considered, emotionally. Yes, people (unless they … [view original content]
It's evolutionary natural for men to kill people who try to have sex with a girl they also, but most in our society would never do that. And… more they don't.
Well, this is actually a fairly recent thing in human history. Crimes like adultery, having sex with a nobleman betrothed, etc used to have been punishable by death. Even now, "crime of passion" laws are still a thing. Hell, it's why a lot of us gave Lee a pass on his past crimes.
Social trends sometimes stem from biological ones and I think this might be such a case. I don't deny that there is a bias in how society views gender roles when it comes to dating, but I think it's a bit overeager to just assume that the bias created the trend rather than the other way around.
Comments
Well i'm slightly older than you, and here is the truth. Guys like girls that are easy, but we don't want to marry them. I used to think that way too when i was in my young 20s, but now that i'm older, i am just looking for acceptance.
Your priorities change when you get older.
That is when you throw it up in their face and say, look how great i look. You turn it back on them. There are some great Maury Povich Episodes where people do this, you should see how empowered these women feel.
Your not, your just a person. Try to be happy with being you, don't focus on a man because are useless. Trust me. Once you put some time into working on you, you will start to notice all your good points. As people i think we are our own worst enemies, remember happiness is only a state of mind. The only person in the world preventing you from being happy is you. Soo, try not to be so hard on yourself.
I think everyone in their life struggles with finding some sort of happiness in their life, I agree with you though, Everyone should try to find peace with themselves, the best anyone can.
hahaha, and one crazy guy. Match.com is great place to meet people, however its so huge now, that it attracts all sorts of people.
Personally i try to stay at least closest to the drinking age, so at least we will have one thing in common. 1 more year!
You know how many times i have been used for sex,
No one knows what its like to be the sad man,
Sex in dating relationships is fine, if you care about the person. That's just how some people connect early on.
Sex shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. It is important in a relationship and not everyone treats it as something to save for the person they marry. Some people just want to have fun and not have the responsibility of a relationship, so they like to try things out without getting tied down. It's actually good to experiment before you go into a committed relationship, so you can understand what you like in a partner better.
If a man and a woman want pleasure without any emotional attachment involved and they use protection, what's the big deal?
I want to give you a longer and more complete answer (I have some urgent things at school so I'm a little backed up on replying here and a lot of other things). But he/she might be blaming the wrong thing. I know you're a devout Christian, but maybe his guilt, especially feelings of dirtiness or sickness are not from the sex itself but from his religion's view of sex. I doubt I'm not going to persuade you out of your beliefs, and I don't know the specifics of your thoughts or those of your friends, but that one place, personally, with all due respect, I believe Christianity is harmful.
I'm not saying sex isn't risky, it really is both physically and emotionally, you can become emotionally attached to your partner (even in something as brief as a one night stand), and it can be emotionally painful - the physical risks are obvious. But feeling guilty over the act of sexuality, I don't think speaks ill of sexuality, but of Christianity.
As I said, people become attached, and it's very easy to become hurt with sexuality, and that's why it needs to be treated with caution. A good friend of mine said romantic relationships were a communication in body, mind, and heart; I agree (though how important each aspect is depends on the person) - when those desires don't match up or are misunderstood, it's undoubtly painful; and I agree the pillar of (a long-term) relationship shouldn't be physical it should be a combination of the three I mentioned about. Personally, mind is the most important for me, so even more than an emotion or spiritual or physical connection, I want an intellectual connection; but that's my decision about me (and, ideally, my lover), other might be more passionate, spiritual, or even physical. That, even the physcial, may go into what you're saying about 'trust,' but religious guilt doesn't help the equation.
It's not; the big deal is that society treats it all the same. Society and media is VERY influential, and it's not fair for the ones who put sex to a higher standard (all those Christians out there). I've known two friends in the past year who have been used by sex and had sex because of those influencing factors, and they are in a darker place because of it. I have to spend a lot of my time dedicated to making them feel better because every they seem to be in a state of depression every time I've seen them, and it's because of what they did, what happened to them, and their guilt and regret for it.
If two people want to have sex for pleasure and not put anything into any kind of developing relationship, then have at it. But society treats it like it's something that EVERYONE wants, and that influence causes situations like my friend's to happen, and it's not fair.
No, it's not. It's not necessary for a dating relationship. You can't say that I can't have a successful relationship without sex.
How? "Let's see how you preform in bed before I date you."? How is that a leading factor in a committed relationship? If you have sex with a girl/guy before being girlfriend/boyfriend, then you decide to date them, then one day you find out you don't like being around them because they too clingy or too pushy or too whiney, how has sexual activity improved your chances of being with this person? Sex does not improve chances of being in a more committing relationship, sex is just a toothpick of a pillar that holds relationships together during dating or before.
Thank you for your words. Though I will say, what you're saying comes close to what I keep hearing about "women like confidence." I've come, I think, to differentiate 'confidence' from 'self-esteem.' Confidence being the 'I can do it,', self-esteem being 'I'm worthy of being loved.' - I value the latter, not the former (though obviously a lack of 'I can do it' is a problem and may very well connote a lack of self-esteem.) Though I don't say loser so much self-disparagingly as with acknowledgement of not I don't have qualities generally popular or attractive to women. Actually, it's halfway a term of pride.
I've worked a lot on my self-esteem, and part of why I'm taking the course is for that reason - while I feel like lately I've gained a good deal of self esteem, I keep hearing that I'm too fat, my hair is too long, and I'm too girly to date anyone. Then they'll tell me I lack 'confidence.' Though reading this article I did think a lot, I'm not sure how I feel about it, just a lot to think about. I just read it, and it actually brings up a lot of the things I discuss with my therapist, so I'm not sure exactly where to go, but it does get me thinking.
I've tried some dating website - I don't know any reliable free ones in Korea. I've gone to some 'meetings' (a gathering of singles), with no success. I'll probably keep trying (my recent weight gain is taking huge toll on my self esteem, and my thesis on my free time). Maybe if I lose some weight and finish school I'll try again, but for the next two months at least it's bearing down on study. Even after that it'll still probably be a crapshoot, but a least a crapshoot I can keep taking.
My other friend who was used by sex is agnostic. He was suicidal right after. I was on a hunting trip and I tried my best to persuade him out of it, with some success... being that he is still alive.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend - I deal with a lot of those feelings and it's very difficult. I don't know the details of the agnostic friend you mentioned, or the Christian friend you mentioned; but there is a big difference between having sex and being "used by sex." I don't know the specifics, but that sounds like the emotional danger I was referring to. It's especially dangerous when one party misunderstands the emotional involvement of the other party. I'm not saying sexuality isn't risky, emotionally or physically; just that to condemn it altogether is not good either. Even if both parties says "we're just doing this for shortime fun" the other party can develop feelings.
In any case, I hope your friend feels better - there are both hotlines (which don't seem good longterm), or other people he/she can talk to, even at school. It's really tricky (you've said you were still in school right?) - teachers and guidance counselors have a duty to report those kind of feelings, either to the police or to the parents, and in my school there was a lot of trouble when that law wasn't obeyed fully, but finding an experience adult who he/she can talk to is key, whether it be guidance counselor, parent, or teacher. I didn't get help until I left home, but I'm not sure it that was the best thing.
About Christianity being harmful, it's not harmful in general; it's harmful when people realize their crime and forget that they are forgiven for it. Jesus is all about forgiving the past; believe in him and the past is gone, you are forgiven, and you are a new person.
He often forgets that, and he needs encouragement.
I'm not sure that applies, both in Christian and in secular terms.
Iconically, in regard to the adultress, Jesus said "Let he who is without sin cast to the first stone," but to her he said "Go forth and sin no more." - the point is that he found what she was living in sin. She cannot continue her ways even if (hypothetically) they were satisfying to her (replace adultry with a different sin if you like). "When people realize their crime." - what is or is not crime is dependant on Christrian belief. To simply say he is forgiving of the past is too easily used as an excuse. The Protestant reply is that one truly has faith in Jesus he/she will live in accordance to the Law, but my main criticism is with the Law itself - that that which is declared sin in Christianity is, on the whole, ultimately harmful to human wellbeing. There are certainly values to Christian teaching; but there are a lot of value to similar, non-religious teachings.
Well, if I'm being honest, I already drink. But I'll be able to drink legally in one year.lol
The way I see it, sex shouldn't happen in a relationship ideally until you're wedding night, or at least until after a year or two into the relationship. I think sex is second priority to making a connection/falling in love with this person. As far as an unexpected pregnancy goes, it should be a happy accident if you're married, but if you're not ready to have children then you should always use protection. And if it happens anyway and you're in a longterm relationship..well, it shouldn't be seen as the end of the world. Bringing life into the world is one of the most beautiful things that a woman can do.
What's messed up for me, is as I move from country to country I went from drinking legally to illegaly to legally to illegally to legally again.
wow, that must be a mind warp!:/
I don't mean to generalize men, because I know how it feels to be generalized as a woman. I'm simply saying from my personal experiences, men are physical creatures and sex and appearance will always be first. And if a woman doesn't have that, she's worthless in their eyes. Which, honestly, I don't care if that's true and no one will admit it, it would just help put my own fears at ease if a man just straight up told me that, that way I'd know to just throw in the towel and admit when I've got no hope.
@Tinni
Thanks girlfran for all the advice. :> Every time I ever tried to get healthy and lose weight, it was always stemming from a rejection. I've never been able to get myself losing weight for myself, because I just don't really care anymore I guess. I've always been fat, it would be weird to be any other way at this point. I can't imagine being fit or skinny, I already have issues with people looking at me, and if I had a nice body I would more than likely never leave my house or dress in sweats for the rest of my life. I know I need to do it for myself, but I don't think I'm worth it to be honest.
@CrazyGeorge
That's the thing, is knowing that my worth suddenly went up because I became physically attractive would further my dislike for people. It would prove the point I'm mortified of. If I'm physically attractive I'm suddenly worth something, but as I am now, I'm worthless. I'm most happy working on my personal projects, my writing, my drawing, nothing in this world even compares to how happy my novels and art makes me. I know I'm the problem, and I need to fix myself, but I'm too far gone at this point, I've literally spent my entire life despising myself. Up until probably last year was the first time I felt I could be okay with who I am, because I wasn't like everyone else. Because what makes me most happy are my novels and characters, and I've felt ashamed of that my whole life up until this past year. So, trying not to be so hard on myself is a lot easier said than done. And at this point, I really don't think I'll ever be able to undue the amount of hatred I've filled myself with for myself. I know things could always be so much worse, and I know everyone has their inner demons.
Its not true. People are people, and are attracted to people for many reasons, I'm not going to lie that looks don't play a role in some relationships. However, i think it really depends on the person. My first wife was my best friend, she wasn't the typical girl i would date. She was extremely nerdy and into fantasy, horses etc. It wasn't the person i would normally fall for.
Though through the course of our friendship we got to know each other and we had that connection and feelings started to develop.
Why not until the wedding night? If they use protection, what's the issue? It's hurting nobody.
I think it depends on the context really. As long as it is a direct product of the love felt between the two individuals, I personally don't have an issue with it as long as they are ready for it. I think it goes back to Tinni's overall point that "sex is second priority to making a connection/ falling in love". A true relationship should not be based on/ dependent upon the physical aspect. I suppose one could argue that having sexual relations too early in a relationship could put this at risk. I think it varies between couples though. Some couples become ready faster than others.
To clarify here, there are guys out there that will legit break up with a girl if they are ever denied the physical aspect of the relationship. Any guy that is truly invested and interested in his partner will not be reliant on having such a thing.
Ha, I was just giving my 2 cents. Thanks though. Glad we're on the same page.
Well, Belan did a good job of explaining it, but I'll weigh in seeing as you asked me. I believe that sex is something that should be shared with the person you love, and are in love with. As I said before, I think the physical part of a relationship should come a year or more after the relationship has begun. That way you know for sure that you are in love with this person, and are happy with them even without the sexual aspect in your relationship. You don't have to wait until marriage, but as a woman, I also believe that saving it for the man you plan to marry makes the wedding night all the more special. I'm pretty old fashioned about these kind of things.
I agree with both @Tinni and @Belan's statements.
I don't really know how to word my thought process about it, other than I think that the only man whom I want to have sex with is my husband. I don't want to share it with anyone else, and if a man was feeling that way about a woman and we were dating, I wouldn't want to tempt him to break that promise with himself or his future wife even if it wasn't me he'd end up marrying. I simply think that emotionally, it should only be shared between a husband and wife.
What you see as "harmful" we see as "freeing". What you see as "pleasure" we see as "slavery". We are a slave to our sins and desires, except that we choose this life.
oh you scamp
In my experience, if more women were like this the process would go a whole lot smoother, particularly in the beginning. Most men are so conscious of fucking things up that they don't even know where to start. I found this picture and found it funny, so I'll share it:
lol that picture is funny( I actually knew a girl who would come to these conclusions with her boyfriend), but it's also pretty accurate. I've only dated two guys, but I had to be very clear when I was communicating with them so they understood exactly what I was conveying, and exactly what I wanted. And I don't think it's an inconvenience that I had to be blunt, nor was I surprised or expecting them to know what I was thinking. It's common knowledge that women are more intuitive, and are better at reading situations emotionally then men. Men and women are different is all.:P
lol Hey, I'm not alone here! Lots of people drink before 21, and if I might be bold, I bet you did too. ;P
I've known a few like that as well. It never ends well, lol.
Definitely keep being blunt when communicating important ideas to guys; mind games, half answers, and medieval style court intrigue will only lead to a lot of confusion, and probably anger.
And those differences are only a bad thing if we make them one. Tackling them with understanding, not resentment like some people seem to do, is the best way to keep things running smoothly with everyone happy. This seems to be your approach, a commendable one indeed, and hopefully one that'll bring you happiness. Don't want to end up like your friend, lol.
Just be careful, and don't trust men.
Wow, my finger is not on the pulse of America. While I admit hookup culture is dangerous, emotionally and physically, so is the opposite. When the whole 'save it until marriage' came out, people were getting married during high school (trust me, in history class we had to look through 1950's yearbooks). In America, I think the average age of first kiss and first sexual experience are something like 14 and 17 respectively, and in Korea it's around 17 and 22 respectively. I think one is perhaps too early, the other is a bit late. But people are going to have sexual desire from their early teens. I know I did in high school, and that's not to say I should have acted upon it, I didn't (not that I had opportunity to), but a lot of people talk about college as when people usually are intimate. To me that sounds about right. Though, like I said, it's dangerous physically, and especially when time is considered, emotionally. Yes, people (unless they both are just looking for the physical, wham bahm thank you m'am) probably should wait to make sure both parties are on the same page about the seriousness of the relationship, but a year sounds a bit on the long side to me. Not that people should feel pressure to have sex if they aren't ready, but, if people feel that they are ready, sex is a fundamental part of human relationships. Moreover, when both parties feel so, it is a means of sharing emotional and physical intimacy. The separation of love and sexuality is a damaging and unfortunate myth. I'm probably putting words in your mouth, and given my track record, I really am in no position to talk, but that's my opinion.
Even when I am 21, I don't plan to go to bars often. I'm more of a "get buzzed at home with a couple friends" type of person.
We all have our opinions on the matter. Mine are largely shaped by my fundamental values and morals in life, and though I see your pov, I don't plan on abandoning them. And the 1950's were just that, the 1950's. Things are very different now, but seeing as you brought it up, one must recognize the environment teens grew up in back then, they tended to mature emotionally and physically a lot faster than teens today. Personally, I think a year is a good time period, because if they've stuck with you for that long, they're interested in you for more than sex. But as I said before, this is simply my opinion. Sexual activity is the fundamental part of a physical relationship, not a romantic relationship. I'm not saying they have to wait, but I can count on both hands how many female friends I have that have regretted losing their virginity to boys they were sure they were in love with, but had only dated for a few months. The worst thing about my generation is that the significance of virginity and how personal and special it is to share it with only one person is downplayed, looked down upon, nearly demonized, and given a bad reputation. These days if you haven't lost it before graduating high school or at least in college, you are either a prude, or incapable of "getting any".
We gave Lee a "pass" on his past because it is understandable and he is awesome.