New Theory/Rumor
Apologies for cross-posting -- I mentioned this in another forum section, but I think it should be here as well; I have a theory that Ron Gilbert is going to make a Monkey Island 5, and it's going to "fix" the trajectory of the story arc to include his vision of how the story was supposed to (but ultimately didn't) continue after M.I. 2. Or maybe it will tell the "secret" of MI (if there even is one). Or both.
We already have the following info...:
My theory is that this "imaginary prequel" thing is a convenient device to allow Ron and LucasArts to shoehorn their 40-hour sweeping tale in between part 4 and "Tales".
As somebody pointed out, even if he is clever enough to "revise" MI history, he still can't undo the marriage between Guybrush and Elaine. That will be a compromise he'll have to make.
We already have the following info...:
- Ron Gilbert has previously stated that if he had a chance, he'd have done a sequel that "rights all the wrongs" with the story arc.
- Mr. Gilbert was consulted before making Tales, i.e. he participated in brainstorming sessions.
- It has been stated in this very forum by members of the Tales dev team, that the SECRET of Monkey Island is "for Ron Gilbert to tell". Or something to that effect.
- Tales will skip directly to being considered "Part 6". Monkey Island 5 will presumably be an "imaginary" prequel to Tales.
- Mr. Gilbert was consulted before making Tales, i.e. he participated in brainstorming sessions.
- It has been stated in this very forum by members of the Tales dev team, that the SECRET of Monkey Island is "for Ron Gilbert to tell". Or something to that effect.
- Tales will skip directly to being considered "Part 6". Monkey Island 5 will presumably be an "imaginary" prequel to Tales.
My theory is that this "imaginary prequel" thing is a convenient device to allow Ron and LucasArts to shoehorn their 40-hour sweeping tale in between part 4 and "Tales".
As somebody pointed out, even if he is clever enough to "revise" MI history, he still can't undo the marriage between Guybrush and Elaine. That will be a compromise he'll have to make.
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Comments
Hopefully if Tales sells well, and the SE of Secret, then Lucas will see there is revenue in continuing with an epic adventure of lengthy proportions.
There definitely is a Secret of Monkey Island, and the famed treasure Big Whoop, and I hope, nay, pray for all Monkey fans that we can see it revealed to us in a fantastic adventure.
Ron Gilbert's Monkey3 MUST start after MI2 and totally ignore CMI and EMI.
Like they never existed. He never spoke about a wish to make a Monkey 5.
In fact, the great opportunity would be right that: making a "real" sequel to MI2.
He has spoken about a wish to make a sequil to MI2 though, and I think I saw somewhere where he said (or maybe joked) that he would have liked to do like a "revisionist history" version of part 3.
But in any case, I think that there are ways to make an "alternate" history that would make you happy as well. He could erase MI 3 and 4 in one shot by just making Guybrush "wake up from a bad dream" at the beginning of part 5! :-). Yeah I know it's a cheap plot device, and I'm partially kidding... but maybe he could do something clever.
In any case, I don't think that they would consult with Ron and then make TMI to take place after an "imaginary part 5", if they weren't planning on doing an *actual* part 5 with Ron involved. And I don't think that Ron would be involved if he wasn't making the story according to his original vision (with a few necessary compromises).
I see your point
Actually, I think the "imaginary sequel to a fifth chapter" part is due to protect themselves. I mean, just like saying: "This is an experiment, a wonderful experiment, we don't dare to make Monkey Island 5 as we're not/we don't feel ready right now. Enjoy TOMI as well, we'll make the best we can.".
I really think that the only other MI game that could be brought by Ron is just Monkey Island 3: MY VERSION.
While I think, however, that MI5 is a possible thing, probably developed by LucasArts or Telltale in the future.
The Red Dwarf specials tried to pull an actual "imaginary sequel" (where the cast repeatedly reffered to events that had supposedly happened in a fictional unaired series that never actually existed) and it just wound up being annoying and frustrating.
Someone mentioned Red Dwarf: a perfect example where canon matters not at all; there's a vague storyline that holds everything together, its ridiculously full of plotholes (most of them intentional), but it doesn't matter. Each episode should really be treated as its own thing. Canon in it is ultimately inconsequential.
In any case, Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island are here to stay (and have been for ten years). I highly doubt that if Gilbert is ever intricately involved in another Monkey Island game that he will say "screw these works by my former collegues and friends, I'm making my own Monkey Island 3!" He might have if they were considered absolutely atrocious, but they're not, they're decent Monkey Island games in their own right.
Just sit back and enjoy what we've got. Who cares that it might not tie itself up together as neatly as the works of Tolkien? It doesn't matter.
I'm not agreeing with you on this.
Ron often said that, if he had the rights, he would make his own Monkey 3: not to be disrespectful with collegues and friends, but just to tell the end of a story which was once thought (by him) as a trilogy.
I don't see anything bad in it, and I'm sure his friends and collegues would like to know how things should have gone too.
That's why he called this hypothetical game "Monkey Island 3a".
It's not like "screw those games", it's more of a "ok, here's how I thought the story would end, I'm not telling it's better, it's just how the maker of the series wanted things to go on."
... Oops, you just did, right there. That was you reading too much into it
Unless it was.
Who knows?
Personally, I'm expecting a real Monkey 3 since 1991 (man, that means 18 years!), so I keep my fingers crossed for it.
LOL... I completely get the joke, and I realize that we're not meant to think that there would really be an MI 5 (kinda like we weren't meant to think that there was really a Disk 155 in SoMI). I'm just having a bit of fun here too.
Thanks for killing the dream, dude!
***Edit***
Er... wait, what was that last part? Hey, are you toying with me?
I disagree. The jokes have to exist within a world/framework you can take semi-seriously, otherwise it all kinda feels disposable! If the MI games were only about the humor and had no continuity, they wouldn't have gained this large of a cult following. There is something very compelling about the MI cannon, and that's why people are excited about it (i.e. just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's not important
In any case, I'm very glad to see that the TTG devs care somewhat about canon, or at least AFAICT from their comments in interviews and forums.
ya i know, one might have seen something similar somewhere... creativity isn't one of my virtues =(
I absolutely love that game
Wasnt Ron involved or something?
And what was supposed to happen but didnt in CMI?
I havnt played the games for a while, so i might need a bit of a rehash...
If you played and completed MI2, there's an unexplained gap between the end of it and the beginning of CMI. Ron Gilbert was not involved at all with CMI and has stated that they took the story in a different direction than he intended for it.
Totally agree. The first two games totally swept me up in the story, it wasn't JUST about the jokes. The jokes were funnier because of that, they were comic relief. But the game itself, the environments, the things you had to do, the plot development, were all actually really cool. There have been so many knock-off games that are JUST about being funny and off the wall and not taking anything seriously, but they fall flat.
Totally. The anticipation between games will be like waiting for the next episode of 24...!
Never before have we experienced that with MI... should be interesting.
Will you be selling popcorn at thrice the price of the newsagent just next to the cinema?
No but we have plenty of very affordable fine Sam & Max merchandise in the company store.
Seamless.
Some people claim that Ron just says he has in his mind how MI3 should have been, but in reality he's totally lying or joking. Others claim that he's serious. I don't know Ron, so I can't intelligently comment on that.
And probably none of us can.
Look, the fact is Ron left LA after MI2. I'm not making any kind of judgment with that statement. It's just, for better or worse, that's what happened. LA retained the IP rights, and they proceeded with two new MI games. Ron wasn't involved, and thus of necessity weren't the games he would have made. How different his would have been, probably even he doesn't know. But, it doesn't matter. CMI and EMI were made. And those games are probably just as popular as the first two. TMI, which it seems to me even hardcore "Only Ron can create canon" fans have to admit is canon (given Ron's involvement in brainstorming and apparent stamp of approval), is coming out soon. It appears to embrace 3 and 4 (at least from the little bit we've seen so far). Thus, 3 and 4 aren't going anywhere. I don't see any good reason (no offense intended to anyone) to keep holding out for a Superman Returns thing (i.e. forgetting the original 3rd and 4th episodes in the series and making a new 3rd episode).
And for what it's worth, if Ron's idea of the "secret" is that the whole thing really is the figment of little Guybrush's imagination, then I hope it never gets incorporated into a game. For me personally, I can't stand "it was all a dream" conclusions to movies, television series, or game series. A dream episode every once in a while might be ok. But don't get to the end of the thing and then tell me that it never existed in the fictional world I've been watching. (I'm looking at you "Newhart").
Incidentally, just as CMI tried to explain the previous game's ending, I wonder if TMI will in any way address the whole Herman Toothrot thing. I personally don't have a problem with the whole concept in EMI, and I think it can be harmonized with the other games. But perhaps a slightly more detailed explanation, one that addresses the fans' accusations of continuity error and shows explicitly how the concept does fit, could be something they throw in at some point. But then again, that might be distracting to new players. Or something to be saved for later.
Wasnt Guybrush at a themepark, and it exploded or something whilst guybrush was in a bumper car...?
Just a little into the credits, it cuts back to Elaine, who worries that LeChuck has placed a curse on Guybrush.
i thought it did
I thought that was utterly and completely brilliant. they had just imagined the whole thing. it was just two boys, playing. making stuff up. such an amazing feeling.
Yeah, I loved the end of Monkey 2 as well, the whole surreal weirdness of the end in the tunnels and the bit with the kids at the end, but many people do not. It's one of the most notoriously polarizing ends of a game, I think.
It frustrated me to no end. I could have accepted the kid ending, but Chuckie's wink at the camera turned it into a cliffhanger, and then I had to wait a bit too long for the follow-up :eek:
Yeah, it was brilliant. In Monkey 3 it seems he must have somehow escaped the carnival of the damned using a bumper car somehow.
It does seem too late for an alternate Monkey 3, it would become confusing and a mess. But I sure did get a tingly feeling when I read the original creater of the Monkey Island series was brainstorming with Telltale
I even think Ron Gilbert said his ideas werent affected by the story in 3 and 4. Im anxious... is it done yet?
So really, all this has to do with the way that the ending of MI2 was dealt with, and little else. Personally, I really liked CMI and thought it was a worthy sequel -- but it doesn't keep me from being curious about what the end of MI2 was really setting the series up for.