Would you please go into more detail?
I'm curious to read more about Gender Identity Disorder, as I've never actually heard this term used before, until I read your comment just now.
Do you know any of the specifics about it?
being transgender is not a choice nor is it a mental disorder.
..It is a disorder, it's called Gender Identity Disorder. People who … morehave this experience an extreme amount of dysphoria. Honestly, they do need help and support, but not enabling.
Well, there's plenty of information about it online, as well as in depth medical studies and what not, but this is the basic definition of GID:
"Gender identity disorder (GID) or transsexualism is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex. People with GID desire to live as members of the opposite sex and often dress and use mannerisms associated with the other gender. For instance, a person identified as a boy may feel and act like a girl. This is distinct from homosexuality in that homosexuals nearly always identify with their apparent sex or gender.
Identity issues may manifest in a variety of different ways. For example, some people with normal genitals and secondary sex characteristics of one gender privately identify more with the other gender. Some may cross-dress, and some may actually seek sex-change surgery. Others are born with ambiguous genitalia, which can raise identity issues."
The point of the matter is that it is a serious mental disorder, and should be treated as such. Majority of the time even if a person with this condition gets a sex-change operation, it doesn't fix any of their problems for them in the long run. All it does is feed into their delusion and their dysphoria. Sadly, there is a reason why transgender/transsexual individuals have such a high suicide count.
Would you please go into more detail?
I'm curious to read more about Gender Identity Disorder, as I've never actually heard this term used before, until I read your comment just now.
Do you know any of the specifics about it?
How is it a disorder? If it does not negatively effect them or others around them, how does it qualify as a disorder? Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between having recurring dysphoric feelings and being transgender? The suicide count has to do with the environment, not identifying as the opposite sex or anything outside of the binary. Gender is not defined by how you present yourself, which would be either more feminine or more masculine. There is a difference between acting feminine and being a girl. Could you explain to me what acting like a girl means?
Well, there's plenty of information about it online, as well as in depth medical studies and what not, but this is the basic definition of G… moreID:
"Gender identity disorder (GID) or transsexualism is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex. People with GID desire to live as members of the opposite sex and often dress and use mannerisms associated with the other gender. For instance, a person identified as a boy may feel and act like a girl. This is distinct from homosexuality in that homosexuals nearly always identify with their apparent sex or gender.
Identity issues may manifest in a variety of different ways. For example, some people with normal genitals and secondary sex characteristics of one gender privately identify more with the other gender. Some may cross-dress, and some may actually seek sex-change surgery. Others are born with ambiguous genital… [view original content]
Since the subject of transsexuals was brought up, I gotta say that I don't understand why anyone would want to change their sex?
Why would … moreanyone want to mutilate their body like that?
That makes no sense to me, whatsoever.
And another thing, when people claim they don't have a choice; as far as how their lives go, that to me just sounds like a cop-out, an excuse for them not taking control of their lives.
The element of personal choice, can never be taken away from a person.
Case and point, people who go to prison, have the choice to either better their lives or not.
They can either work to become productive members of society again, or they can choose to become even worse then when they first set foot in prison.
And there are many who are released from prison, and have chosen to live honest-hardworking lives, instead of going back to a life of crime, and they do so in-spite of whatever may have happened to them while in prison.
… [view original content]
Look it up, Gender Identity Disorder is a classified mental illness. This is a fact, not an opinion. To deny fact would be irrational.
Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between having recurring dysphoric feelings and being transgender?
The definition of Dysphoria is an extreme state of unease or dissatisfaction with life. Gender dysphoria (another term for GID) is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Transgender people are unhappy in the bodies they were born in, they believe they were born as the wrong sex, and can't be happy in life unless they are the opposite sex.
The suicide count has to do with the environment, not identifying as the opposite sex or anything outside of the binary. Gender is not defined by how you present yourself
Somewhat, but the main reason is due to their dysphoria and the fact that they want to be something that they physically will never be, because it's impossible. It does not matter how many hormones they take or how many surgeries they get, the truth of the matter is they will never be the opposite sex/gender. They are trying to be something they cannot, they are trying to deny their DNA. Females have XX chromosomes, Males have XY chromosomes. There is no getting around that. (Of course there are very rare genetic deformities that don't conform to this, ex; a woman can have a Y chromosome, or a man can have an extra X chromosome etc, but the general consensus is that XX= woman, XY= man.) These individuals commit suicide, because deep down they know that they're living a lie, and will never be who or what they want to be. They have these delusions to begin with due to their illness. What they need is therapy, not a surgery that mutilates their genitals in order to make them look like the opposite sex. Enabling and encouraging people to get surgeries that give them immediate gratification/false happiness is cruel and doesn't actually help them. It would be like encouraging a schizophrenic person's delusions, letting them lose touch with reality, think the voices are real, letting them think the're not mentally ill simply because you don't want to hurt their feelings. I sincerely hope you are not one of those people who seriously believes that gender is a social construct.
I want to make it clear that the people I am addressing here are specifically those who were born with female or male genitalia that are easy to distinguish, and later on wish to be the opposite sex.Though GID also applies to those who are born with ambiguous genitalia, that in itself is an incredibly rare condition, and can't necessarily be used as a general reason or use of support for why transsexualism is a natural inclination, and that it's acceptable/normal to undergo such drastic surgeries.
How is it a disorder? If it does not negatively effect them or others around them, how does it qualify as a disorder? Can you prove that the… morere is a direct correlation between having recurring dysphoric feelings and being transgender? The suicide count has to do with the environment, not identifying as the opposite sex or anything outside of the binary. Gender is not defined by how you present yourself, which would be either more feminine or more masculine. There is a difference between acting feminine and being a girl. Could you explain to me what acting like a girl means?
Being transsexual is actually not a disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is now classified as gender dysphoria as of the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of 2013 (although some doctors still use the gender identity disorder term, but it's still applied with the DSM-5 definition rather than that of DSM-4 and below, since doing so would be unethical).
The Gender Identity Disorder definition that you listed is out of date, as the definition has been largely overhauled to not include all transsexuals in DSM-5, since I had said above science has now shown that it is actually a actually a biological intersex condition of the brain, as transsexual people have been shown to have the brain structure of the opposite sex from birth (since even those who have never underwent hormone therapy still had the brain structure of the opposite sex) in many different studies (and, as with all intersex conditions, we now know that gender is identified by the brain, since genitalia or chromosome markers are not a guaranteed identifier in intersex individuals).
Gender dysphoria (or gender identity disorder still in some instances, as I stated above) is not applied to all transsexuals, it's only for those who have an extreme discomfort (dysphoria) between their birth sex and the biological gender of their brain. Not all transsexuals suffer from an extreme discomfort (since much of the discomfort comes from environmental factors, such as bullying or abuse).
being transgender is not a choice nor is it a mental disorder.
..It is a disorder, it's called Gender Identity Disorder. People who … morehave this experience an extreme amount of dysphoria. Honestly, they do need help and support, but not enabling.
Being transsexual is actually not a disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is now classified as gender dysphoria as of the DSM-5 (Diagnostic an… mored Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of 2013 (although some doctors still use the gender identity disorder term, but it's still applied with the DSM-5 definition rather than that of DSM-4 and below, since doing so would be unethical).
The Gender Identity Disorder definition that you listed is out of date, as the definition has been largely overhauled to not include all transsexuals in DSM-5, since I had said above science has now shown that it is actually a actually a biological intersex condition of the brain, as transsexual people have been shown to have the brain structure of the opposite sex from birth (since even those who have never underwent hormone therapy still had the brain structure of the opposite sex) in many different studies (and, as with all intersex conditions, we now know that ge… [view original content]
Gender Dysphoria is GID, the only reason they changed the terminology is so those with this disorder have access to care and treatment (aka hormone supplements and sex change operations) without their condition being used against them. It's harder for them to pursue these treatments when the condition they have has the words "illness" or "disorder" in them, which rightfully so, it should be more difficult for them to have access to these procedures. Basically, enough people claimed that they had, or were diagnosed with this disorder, and demanded treatment/surgery to the point that those higher up were forced to change the terminology in order not to hurt feelings, and allow the person to do what they want with their body without the negative connotation that comes with having a disorder. Which they clearly do have a disorder. Meaning they wish to undergo surgery to make themselves look like the opposite sex/gender.
The way I see it, it's similar to how calling someone "mentally retarded" is out of date, and now it's "intellectually disabled". Because of the negative connotation, because it hurt people's feelings, and because enough people demanded the terminology to be changed. The person is still mentally retarded, it's just no longer nice and acceptable to call them that. Slapping a new name on GID doesn't change what it fundamentally is. Any evidence found within the makeup of the brain/genetics doesn't mean it's not an illness or disorder. Of course people who have this condition are going to have different brain makeups, if they didn't, then it wouldn't be an illness/disorder that they couldn't control. The same can be said for other mental illnesses located in the brain, or caused by genetic makeup/deformities, such as schizophrenia. It's still a disorder, you still have a man convinced he is a woman, and a woman convinced she is a man. I stand by my assessment that these people need serious therapy, not surgeries and hormones that merely give the illusion that they're the opposite sex.
Being transsexual is actually not a disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is now classified as gender dysphoria as of the DSM-5 (Diagnostic an… mored Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of 2013 (although some doctors still use the gender identity disorder term, but it's still applied with the DSM-5 definition rather than that of DSM-4 and below, since doing so would be unethical).
The Gender Identity Disorder definition that you listed is out of date, as the definition has been largely overhauled to not include all transsexuals in DSM-5, since I had said above science has now shown that it is actually a actually a biological intersex condition of the brain, as transsexual people have been shown to have the brain structure of the opposite sex from birth (since even those who have never underwent hormone therapy still had the brain structure of the opposite sex) in many different studies (and, as with all intersex conditions, we now know that ge… [view original content]
No, it has actually been changed in class between DSM-4 and DSM-5 in matters other than the name. Transgender people who do not have an extreme discomfort with their birth sex are no longer classified with gender identity disorder, only those who have extreme discomfort are classified as such as of DSM-5 (and as I said, many transgender people don't suffer from extreme discomfort since a lot of the discomfort comes from environmental factors such as bullying and abuse). The transgender people who don't suffer from discomfort are no longer classified as having gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria since the passage of DSM-5.
As I said, the brain structure is that of the other gender, so it is actually an intersex condition. There's a lot more to intersex conditions than just ambiguous genetalia. There are also instances where people have more than two genetic markers for gender (i.e.: XXY, XXXY, etc.). There are also people who have some internal organs of the opposite sex (which is the case with transsexuals since that the brain is structurally identical to members of the opposite sex from birth). There are also people with a mix of the above. We now know that gender is determined by the brain (as doctors have found that for people with intersex conditions, their genitalia or chromosomes are not always reliable identifiers for their gender), and the same is true for transsexual people as they have been scientifically shown in many different studies to have an intersex condition of the brain since their brain structure is structurally identical to that of the opposite sex from birth.
Gender Dysphoria is GID, the only reason they changed the terminology is so those with this disorder have access to care and treatment (aka … morehormone supplements and sex change operations) without their condition being used against them. It's harder for them to pursue these treatments when the condition they have has the words "illness" or "disorder" in them, which rightfully so, it should be more difficult for them to have access to these procedures. Basically, enough people claimed that they had, or were diagnosed with this disorder, and demanded treatment/surgery to the point that those higher up were forced to change the terminology in order not to hurt feelings, and allow the person to do what they want with their body without the negative connotation that comes with having a disorder. Which they clearly do have a disorder. Meaning they wish to undergo surgery to make themselves look like the opposite sex/gender.
The way I see it, it's … [view original content]
Why do you think that it is not acceptable/normal to undergo such surgeries? Your reasoning that transgender people are not genetically the opposite sex does not make sense. As Jennifer already said, transgender people have brain structures that are alike to the opposite of their biological gender. This has been scientifically proven, and there are a multitude of articles on the topic. Being transgender is in no way similar to being schizophrenic. Schizophrenic people endure psychological terror as well as the surreal experience of not being part of the world and experiencing the same events or lack of in the same way as others. They need medication so that they can live life to the fullest, which their schizophrenia stops them from because they cannot tell what is real and what is not. Transgender people's claims of feeling trapped in the opposite sexes body have been to some degree proven. There are plenty of transgender people who don't get the surgery and are still content just expressing their gender identity and being recognized as they wish to be. How do you know that surgeries that help them to achieve the goal of being recognized as their true gender, only give them immediate gratification? I have never heard a trans person say that or anything along those lines. I don't understand why it is not acceptable or normal to get a surgery to give you the genitals of the sex you feel you are. How does it affect you if they choose to get the surgery? Why isn't acceptable? Also there is a difference between something being classified by a disorder and being a disorder, to qualify as a disorder something has to cause you or others around you trauma. Since there are transgender people who don't have dysphoric feelings about their bodies, dysphoria is not always part of being transgender. Considering this how is being transgender a mental disability?
How is it a disorder?
Look it up, Gender Identity Disorder is a classified mental illness. This is a fact, not an opinion. To deny f… moreact would be irrational.
Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between having recurring dysphoric feelings and being transgender?
The definition of Dysphoria is an extreme state of unease or dissatisfaction with life. Gender dysphoria (another term for GID) is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Transgender people are unhappy in the bodies they were born in, they believe they were born as the wrong sex, and can't be happy in life unless they are the opposite sex.
The suicide count has to do with the environment, not identifying as the opposite sex or anything outside of the binary. Gender is not defined by how you present yourself
Somewhat, but the main reason is d… [view original content]
You have a discomfort with your birth sex if you wish to change it, act/dress as the other sex/gender, or wish to be addressed as the other sex/gender. If you don't believe this was the sex you were meant to be, or you're uncomfortable and feel discontent with the way you're perceived, then you are experiencing dysphoria. It is not necessary to want to pursue a sex change operation or hormone treatment in order to have dysphoria. Maybe it's not as severe as other cases, or perhaps a transgender person has convinced themselves it is completely normal and that they legitimately are the opposite sex/gender, but it's a form of dysphoria nonetheless.
As I said before, my post is addressing those who have clear identifiable female or male genitalia, not those who have extremely rare conditions such as ambiguous genitalia, chromosome deformities and abnormalities, legitimate intersex conditions etc. that you're listing. Those are what we call outliers. I'm talking about the general population, not rare cases. Though it's been theorized that our genders are determined by our genetic makeup, as opposed to solely our chromosomes by a few scientists, the norm is still that male=XY, female=XX. This is the general majority, and until these rare instances have become more frequent within the larger population, they will stay as such. Rare abnormalities and genetic deformities that don't affect the general majority. Again, just because there are genetic differences that originate in the brain, does not mean it's normal and not a mental illness.
I also think it is incredibly insidious to spread the idea that wishing to be the opposite sex/gender is normal, and not a disorder, because it has become a fad for youths to be "trans". By saying it's not an illness, you are making it easier for the people who don't actually have any genetic abnormalities to get access to hormone supplements/sex change operations simply because it's "trendy" to think you're born as the wrong sex/gender. It's promoting extreme identity confusion, which shouldn't be encouraged. Many are beginning to say that forcing a person to go to therapy before they get a sex change operation is oppressive and offensive, and should no longer be allowed. I shouldn't need to explain why this is so dangerous if things continue on as they are.
No, it has actually been changed in class between DSM-4 and DSM-5 in matters other than the name. Transgender people who do not have an ext… morereme discomfort with their birth sex are no longer classified with gender identity disorder, only those who have extreme discomfort are classified as such as of DSM-5 (and as I said, many transgender people don't suffer from extreme discomfort since a lot of the discomfort comes from environmental factors such as bullying and abuse). The transgender people who don't suffer from discomfort are no longer classified as having gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria since the passage of DSM-5.
As I said, the brain structure is that of the other gender, so it is actually an intersex condition. There's a lot more to intersex conditions than just ambiguous genetalia. There are also instances where people have more than two genetic markers for gender (i.e.: XXY, XXXY, etc.). There are also people who h… [view original content]
Because these surgeries don't fix the underlying problem, all they do is make them appear to be the opposite sex, which they aren't. It enables their dysphoria, increases their delusions and confusion, and unfortunately makes them akin to a pariah within society because it is easy to tell they aren't actually the sex/gender they're pretending to be. I also believe it is wrong to mutilate your bodies in such a fashion, you were born in that body, unless you have a serious condition that requires surgery, or you have ambiguous genitalia, you shouldn't be having these operations. You should be in therapy getting help.
Schizophrenia isn't synonymous with people who think they're the opposite sex, that is correct, but they are both illnesses that skew your view on reality. Schizophrenics think they hear voices, or hallucinate, which is caused by genetic abnormalities and defects in the brain. Transsexuals think they're the opposite sex/gender, due to genetic abnormalities and defects in the brain. To encourage either of these isn't beneficial, because they're are still suffering from delusion and mental illness, you are just encouraging them to deny reality. Many transgender individuals after transitioning end up committing suicide. These people have a very high suicide rate. Meaning the surgery doesn't solve all their mental problems in the long run.
The disorder does actually cause trauma to the person who has it, and to other people. The person who has GID, because they feel like they don't belong in their body, it is extremely depressing and upsetting for them to be in this body and to be addressed by their body's sex/gender. It can become traumatic the more deluded the person is about their sex/gender. For other people, mostly young people, because it can be frightening to see a person who, let's say is clearly a man dressed/acting as a woman, or see them in the women's restroom etc. If you want an example, I can tell you one that's actually personal. One of my cousin's children couldn't stop crying, had nightmares, and was emotionally traumatized for months because when she was in the locker room at the gym, a man who identified as a female and had undergone a few surgeries, came in and exposed himself. She still refuses to go to that locker room because of the incident.
I never said it was a disability. There is a difference between a mental illness and a mental disability.
Why do you think that it is not acceptable/normal to undergo such surgeries? Your reasoning that transgender people are not genetically the … moreopposite sex does not make sense. As Jennifer already said, transgender people have brain structures that are alike to the opposite of their biological gender. This has been scientifically proven, and there are a multitude of articles on the topic. Being transgender is in no way similar to being schizophrenic. Schizophrenic people endure psychological terror as well as the surreal experience of not being part of the world and experiencing the same events or lack of in the same way as others. They need medication so that they can live life to the fullest, which their schizophrenia stops them from because they cannot tell what is real and what is not. Transgender people's claims of feeling trapped in the opposite sexes body have been to some degree proven. There are plenty of transgender people who don't ge… [view original content]
I have a feeling you will not change your opinion on this, however, do you have any idea how it feels to be told you are not normal? You have said that trans people are not normal on several occasions and in the one time that you wrote about a hypothetical situation with a trans person, mis-gendered said hypothetical person. Being told that you're not normal has got to be one of the most horrid sinking feelings possible. Being told that your feelings are not valid is one of the most frustrating things I have ever had to deal with being told as a bisexual person. Some people believe me though, including most of the people I am close to. Trans people are told these types of things all the time. I couldn't find any statistics on the number of people who are pro trans-rights, but aside from that even if being transgender was a mental disorder they would still be normal. Trans people are not average because of the number of cis people vs. the number of trans people, but when saying that a group of people are not normal this is almost always used as an insult. If you are using not normal to mean that trans people are damaged or have something wrong with them than you are insinuating that people with mental disabilities have something wrong with them for feeling the way that they feel and that that they are less then. If are using not normal to mean that they are not average by most societal norms than I don't see the point.
You have a discomfort with your birth sex if you wish to change it, act/dress as the other sex/gender, or wish to be addressed as the other … moresex/gender. If you don't believe this was the sex you were meant to be, or you're uncomfortable and feel discontent with the way you're perceived, then you are experiencing dysphoria. It is not necessary to want to pursue a sex change operation or hormone treatment in order to have dysphoria. Maybe it's not as severe as other cases, or perhaps a transgender person has convinced themselves it is completely normal and that they legitimately are the opposite sex/gender, but it's a form of dysphoria nonetheless.
As I said before, my post is addressing those who have clear identifiable female or male genitalia, not those who have extremely rare conditions such as ambiguous genitalia, chromosome deformities and abnormalities, legitimate intersex conditions etc. that you're listing. Those are what we call out… [view original content]
I'm not saying it's "not normal" to hurt them, the fact is that it just isn't normal. Normal means this is general, this is typical, this is the average etc. But just because something isn't normal, doesn't mean you're not a person or less deserving of a person. Transsexualism/GID is something that most likely occurs when there is a genetic deformity/abnormality in the brain,a rare intersex condition, or rare ambiguous genitalia etc. Excluding the last two, it is fundamentally a mental illness that causes a person to think they are, or wish to be the opposite sex when they're clearly not. Allowing them to have operations that mutilate their genitals, when they're view of reality is warped, is not acceptable and is detrimental to the person imho.
I don't know which hypothetical situation you're talking about, but the example I utilized about my cousin's daughter actually happened. And I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from saying it didn't, because these types of incidents actually do happen quite often as of late.
I repeat, just because a person isn't normal, or has a mental illness/disorder, doesn't mean they're inferior or less of a person. I have never said anything even close to that. I just believe that the current solution for those that suffer from GID is not justified or efficient, and is more harmful to their mental/emotional stability than anything else. Just because there are a few rare occurrences where a person has ambiguous genitalia, or an intersex condition, doesn't mean it is ok for everyone else who has GID to have sex change operations/hormone treatments. Once you have these operations there is no going back, it is practically irreversible. Nor do I think it's ok to change the terminology just so it's easier for them to have access to these treatments, and to not hurt their feelings. I also don't think it's acceptable to encourage and enable these individuals, or normalize the disorder/illness, because for some insane reason it has become a trend for young people to be "trans", or have a ridiculously long list of disorders/disabilities.
I have a feeling you will not change your opinion on this, however, do you have any idea how it feels to be told you are not normal? You hav… moree said that trans people are not normal on several occasions and in the one time that you wrote about a hypothetical situation with a trans person, mis-gendered said hypothetical person. Being told that you're not normal has got to be one of the most horrid sinking feelings possible. Being told that your feelings are not valid is one of the most frustrating things I have ever had to deal with being told as a bisexual person. Some people believe me though, including most of the people I am close to. Trans people are told these types of things all the time. I couldn't find any statistics on the number of people who are pro trans-rights, but aside from that even if being transgender was a mental disorder they would still be normal. Trans people are not average because of the number of cis people vs. the numb… [view original content]
Trans people are not confused there is a difference between expressing yourself in a way typically associate with the opposite sex and feeling as though you are trapped in your body and are the opposite of your biological sex. Once again there is proof that when transgender people feel as though they are the opposite of their biological sex, there is a direct correlation to this in the formation of their brain. Not all transgender people have dysphoric feelings and plenty of trans people, after getting the surgery or other such things to help them be accepted as their gender, become happier and more accepted. However, this doesn't stop issues like trans pay inequality and not being able to use public bathrooms or buy/rent property as easily. Plenty of trans people don't even want to or need to transition to feel comfortable in their gender identity. As for the situation with your cousin, was this woman changing? I doubt she just came in and exposed herself to your cousin for no reason but to shock or disturb your cousin. I understand that it can be hard to accept things and people that you're not used to or are confused about, but did your cousin understand that this woman was trans and not a strange man changing in a locker room meant for girls/women? How old is your cousin? Also, what was the setting of this? Not all trans people would go into a setting like that and change, and if even if they did want to change in that type of setting they should be able to.
Because these surgeries don't fix the underlying problem, all they do is make them appear to be the opposite sex, which they aren't. It enab… moreles their dysphoria, increases their delusions and confusion, and unfortunately makes them akin to a pariah within society because it is easy to tell they aren't actually the sex/gender they're pretending to be. I also believe it is wrong to mutilate your bodies in such a fashion, you were born in that body, unless you have a serious condition that requires surgery, or you have ambiguous genitalia, you shouldn't be having these operations. You should be in therapy getting help.
Schizophrenia isn't synonymous with people who think they're the opposite sex, that is correct, but they are both illnesses that skew your view on reality. Schizophrenics think they hear voices, or hallucinate, which is caused by genetic abnormalities and defects in the brain. Transsexuals think they're the opposite sex/gender, … [view original content]
What I was referring to when I was talking about the hypothetical situation, I wasn't referring to the situation with your cousin but when you were talking about a man being convinced he is a woman and a woman convinced she is a man. I probably should've phrased that better, however in the situation with your cousin I'm really not clear on exactly what happened.
I'm not saying it's "not normal" to hurt them, the fact is that it just isn't normal. Normal means this is general, this is typical, this is… more the average etc. But just because something isn't normal, doesn't mean you're not a person or less deserving of a person. Transsexualism/GID is something that most likely occurs when there is a genetic deformity/abnormality in the brain,a rare intersex condition, or rare ambiguous genitalia etc. Excluding the last two, it is fundamentally a mental illness that causes a person to think they are, or wish to be the opposite sex when they're clearly not. Allowing them to have operations that mutilate their genitals, when they're view of reality is warped, is not acceptable and is detrimental to the person imho.
I don't know which hypothetical situation you're talking about, but the example I utilized about my cousin's daughter actually happened. And I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from saying it didn't, … [view original content]
You're misunderstanding, I am agreeing there can be differences in the brain that cause a person to be transsexual or want to be the opposite sex/gender, but that doesn't mean it's not a mental illness. That is why I drew parallels with schizophrenia, a mental illness that can be caused by genetic differences within the brain. And again, you have dysphoria if you think you're more suited for the opposite sex, wish to be addressed as the other sex/gender, or dress/act like the opposite sex/gender. Even if they don't undergo surgery or get hormone treatment, if they think they are, or should be the opposite sex/gender, that is dysphoria. It means you aren't content with the sex you were born with, regardless of what degree of dysphoria you are experiencing.
She was 13, and there were a few other women, including her friend in the locker room. The person walked in while others were changing, (a few of the other women at this point noticed that this wasn't actually a female) and then began to undress completely for the sauna. My cousin's daughter had an idea about transgender/transsexuals, but this was pretty frightening for her and her friend. More so for my cousin's daughter who immediately began to cry and left the room as quickly as possible. A few others in the locker room got very uncomfortable and also left apparently. I heard that a complaint was filed after the gym was notified there were children in the room when this happened. I don't think the transgender person did this to scare anyone either, but it doesn't change the fact that it very much did. Hence why I don't think these types of surgeries should be so easy to access, because it unfortunately isolates the person from society. We have very differing opinions on the matter, because I don't think they should be able to go into the restrooms/locker rooms specifically for that gender, just because they identify as that sex/gender. They aren't that sex/gender, so they shouldn't go in there.
Trans people are not confused there is a difference between expressing yourself in a way typically associate with the opposite sex and feeli… moreng as though you are trapped in your body and are the opposite of your biological sex. Once again there is proof that when transgender people feel as though they are the opposite of their biological sex, there is a direct correlation to this in the formation of their brain. Not all transgender people have dysphoric feelings and plenty of trans people, after getting the surgery or other such things to help them be accepted as their gender, become happier and more accepted. However, this doesn't stop issues like trans pay inequality and not being able to use public bathrooms or buy/rent property as easily. Plenty of trans people don't even want to or need to transition to feel comfortable in their gender identity. As for the situation with your cousin, was this woman changing? I doubt she just came in and e… [view original content]
Ok. If that person is born as a woman, knows they're a woman, but thinks they were meant to be and should be a man, then that means you're convinced that is the gender /sex you are deep down. And vice versa.
What I was referring to when I was talking about the hypothetical situation, I wasn't referring to the situation with your cousin but when y… moreou were talking about a man being convinced he is a woman and a woman convinced she is a man. I probably should've phrased that better, however in the situation with your cousin I'm really not clear on exactly what happened.
You're misunderstanding, I am agreeing there can be differences in the brain that cause a person to be transsexual or want to be the opposit… moree sex/gender, but that doesn't mean it's not a mental illness. That is why I drew parallels with schizophrenia, a mental illness that can be caused by genetic differences within the brain. And again, you have dysphoria if you think you're more suited for the opposite sex, wish to be addressed as the other sex/gender, or dress/act like the opposite sex/gender. Even if they don't undergo surgery or get hormone treatment, if they think they are, or should be the opposite sex/gender, that is dysphoria. It means you aren't content with the sex you were born with, regardless of what degree of dysphoria you are experiencing.
She was 13, and there were a few other women, including her friend in the locker room. The person walked in while others were changing, (a few of the other women at this point noticed th… [view original content]
And that's perfectly alright, this conversation really doesn't have to end with either of us agreeing. It's both intellectually stimulating and fun to have debates with people who think differently, and are on the opposite sides of the spectrum regarding certain topics.
And that's perfectly alright, this conversation really doesn't have to end with either of us agreeing. It's both intellectually stimulating … moreand fun to have debates with people who think differently, and are on the opposite sides of the spectrum regarding certain topics.
Dysphoria is extreme discomfort. A lot of transsexual people don't have an extreme discomfort (especially when they are not exposed to negative environmental factors such as bullying or abuse). So, the condition does not apply to them.
Transgender people have a healthy brain, it's just that their brain structure is identical to that of the opposite sex. You can't classify someone as having a mental disorder because they have a birth condition that caused one of their organs to be identical to that which would be considered perfectly healthy in the opposite sex. You wouldn't do so with someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome, who typically have a vagina with internal testes.
Intersex conditions arise during gestation, and sometimes cause internal organs to be that of the opposite sex. Decades of scientific research has shown that this is exactly the case with transsexuals. In all intersex individuals (transsexuals included, since they too have an internal organ which is identical to that of the opposite sex), the brain gender is always the determining factor, since any other factor is unreliable since they have a combination of male and female organs and/or chromosomes.
You have a discomfort with your birth sex if you wish to change it, act/dress as the other sex/gender, or wish to be addressed as the other … moresex/gender. If you don't believe this was the sex you were meant to be, or you're uncomfortable and feel discontent with the way you're perceived, then you are experiencing dysphoria. It is not necessary to want to pursue a sex change operation or hormone treatment in order to have dysphoria. Maybe it's not as severe as other cases, or perhaps a transgender person has convinced themselves it is completely normal and that they legitimately are the opposite sex/gender, but it's a form of dysphoria nonetheless.
As I said before, my post is addressing those who have clear identifiable female or male genitalia, not those who have extremely rare conditions such as ambiguous genitalia, chromosome deformities and abnormalities, legitimate intersex conditions etc. that you're listing. Those are what we call out… [view original content]
Again, if a person isn't satisfied with the sex/gender they were born as, or thinks they're better suited as the other sex/gender, then that is dysphoria. Even if they don't seek hormone supplements or surgery, if they think they're the other sex/gender, or should be, then they're not content with the one their body currently is. Because of this, it does, in fact, apply to them.
Because their brain isn't matching up with their body is precisely why it is not normal. You can classify it as a mental disorder, and it already has been. For there are possible genetic abnormalities that are causing their brain to develop in such a way and delude the person into thinking they should be the opposite sex. There are plenty of birth conditions that change the way the brain works that create a mental illness/disorder. Again, I'm not talking about extremely rare conditions like intersex or androgen syndrome, those cases are an exception to the rule, they do not change the rule.
Dysphoria is extreme discomfort. A lot of transsexual people don't have an extreme discomfort (especially when they are not exposed to nega… moretive environmental factors such as bullying or abuse). So, the condition does not apply to them.
Transgender people have a healthy brain, it's just that their brain structure is identical to that of the opposite sex. You can't classify someone as having a mental disorder because they have a birth condition that caused one of their organs to be identical to that which would be considered perfectly healthy in the opposite sex. You wouldn't do so with someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome, who typically have a vagina with internal testes.
Intersex conditions arise during gestation, and sometimes cause internal organs to be that of the opposite sex. Decades of scientific research has shown that this is exactly the case with transsexuals. In all intersex individuals (transsexuals included, sin… [view original content]
Yes, it has been classified as a mental disorder in the past, but since it no longer is, you can't classify it as such without ignoring modern science and ignoring the latest DSM criteria (just as being gay is no longer classified as a mental disorder in the DSM). We now know that is completely wrong to classify being gay as a mental disorder, as there is a lot of scientific evidence from studies that show is biological, just as we now know that being transgender is biological. The human body is an amazing thing with many different nuances. Science makes new discoveries all the time. That's why medical books are updated all the time. No doctor would ignore the latest scientific research and stick to the old DSM guidelines, as doing so would be immoral, unethical, and would result in the termination of their right to practice medicine.
Just because it is the brain in question doesn't make it a mental disorder. In order to be classified as a mental disorder, it would have to be treatable (since that is what the DSM is for), and to do so it would have to involve things which can be changed such as neural connections or memories stored in neural links. Since the structure of the entire brain itself has been shown to be identical from birth to that of the opposite sex, you can't classify it as such, as brain structure can not be changed (the brain is elastic to a point, but not to that much of an extreme where you can change the entire structure of a brain through therapy or medicine, or even surgery).
If an organ is structurally identical to that of the opposite sex since birth, that is exactly the definition of intersex. The brain is indeed an organ, so the definition fits. You can't classify someone as unhealthy when they have an organ that is structurally identical to that which would be considered healthy in the opposite sex.
Again, if a person isn't satisfied with the sex/gender they were born as, or thinks they're better suited as the other sex/gender, then that… more is dysphoria. Even if they don't seek hormone supplements or surgery, if they think they're the other sex/gender, or should be, then they're not content with the one their body currently is. Because of this, it does, in fact, apply to them.
Because their brain isn't matching up with their body is precisely why it is not normal. You can classify it as a mental disorder, and it already has been. For there are possible genetic abnormalities that are causing their brain to develop in such a way and delude the person into thinking they should be the opposite sex. There are plenty of birth conditions that change the way the brain works that create a mental illness/disorder. Again, I'm not talking about extremely rare conditions like intersex or androgen syndrome, those cases are an exception to the rule, they do not change the rule.
Yes, it has been classified as a mental disorder in the past, but since it no longer is, you can't classify it as such without ignoring mode… morern science and ignoring the latest DSM criteria (just as being gay is no longer classified as a mental disorder in the DSM). We now know that is completely wrong to classify being gay as a mental disorder, as there is a lot of scientific evidence from studies that show is biological, just as we now know that being transgender is biological. The human body is an amazing thing with many different nuances. Science makes new discoveries all the time. That's why medical books are updated all the time. No doctor would ignore the latest scientific research and stick to the old DSM guidelines, as doing so would be immoral, unethical, and would result in the termination of their right to practice medicine.
Just because it is the brain in question doesn't make it a mental disorder. In order to be classifie… [view original content]
I've already explained this, the terminology was only changed so those suffering from GID could have easier access to treatment, as well as not have their condition be used against them, for the negative connotation that comes with "mental disorder/illness" was removed. It was changed because a large enough amount of people were upset with the label to which they were forced to change it. Just as with "intellectually disabled" still meaning "mentally retarded", changing the name of something doesn't change what it fundamentally is.
And a possible genetic abnormality originating in the brain that causes a person to deny the sex/gender they were born with is a mental disorder/illness. I'm not going to address the bit about homosexuality, because unlike transsexualism, I do not believe you are born that way. I'd appreciate if we stay on topic.
It is treatable. It's called going to therapy, and taking medication. As you said with how science is always evolving, so is modern medicine. Though I disagree with this method, many would say that taking hormone supplements, going to sex reassignment therapy, and getting a sex change operation is a form of treatment. And the brain isn't completely identical at birth, studies have shown that certain regions of the brain are similar in ways, such as in size, but they are not completely identical. Everything you are citing as fact is only theory, do you know how many different theories there are regarding the cause of transsexualism? Some think it's genetic, some think it's caused by prenatal exposure to certain drugs, some think that their brain just happened to develop similarly as the opposite sex, some think it's a pathology, and some, like you, think it's a form of intersex in order to reduce the negative social stigma surrounding the disorder. There is no general consensus for why it occurs. Nothing is concrete, and until it is, I'm inclined to believe it is a mental illness/disorder likely caused by a genetic deformity, for you cannot say it's normal for a man with clearly distinguished male genitalia to think he should be a woman, and vice versa.
Yes, it has been classified as a mental disorder in the past, but since it no longer is, you can't classify it as such without ignoring mode… morern science and ignoring the latest DSM criteria (just as being gay is no longer classified as a mental disorder in the DSM). We now know that is completely wrong to classify being gay as a mental disorder, as there is a lot of scientific evidence from studies that show is biological, just as we now know that being transgender is biological. The human body is an amazing thing with many different nuances. Science makes new discoveries all the time. That's why medical books are updated all the time. No doctor would ignore the latest scientific research and stick to the old DSM guidelines, as doing so would be immoral, unethical, and would result in the termination of their right to practice medicine.
Just because it is the brain in question doesn't make it a mental disorder. In order to be classifie… [view original content]
Sure, being transsexual can be (and most likely is) caused by many different causes, but when multiple peer reviews have come up with the same findings consistently over decades of research (which is the case in the findings that the structure of transsexual people are different than those of the same sex who are not transgender), those findings become scientific fact.
Peer review is the ultimate failsafe from distinguishing between flawed findings and those which are true, and the fact that there are multiple studies from many different research facilities over decades of research that all point consistently towards transgender individuals having a different brain structure than other people of the same sex, means that in this case peer review has shown that these findings are factual.
So, if these people have been scientifically proven to have a birth condition that changes their brain structure (which they have, through decades of research which continuously backs up the fact that their brain structure is different from others of their gender), and brain structure can not be changed through medicine, therapy, or surgery, what does labeling that person with a mental disorder do beyond adding to the stigma and shame that these people have to deal with in today's world? Conventional wisdom states that if you can't treat the problem (and you definitely can't change brain structure), then the problem must be something else.
So, if treating the brain is not the solution (and it can't be, since brain structure can't be changed), then the solution must lie elsewhere (and it has been shown that the other solution works, since the process that transsexual individuals go through has been shown to help the individuals in question, both emotionally and to fit in better in societal roles).
I've already explained this, the terminology was only changed so those suffering from GID could have easier access to treatment, as well as … morenot have their condition be used against them, for the negative connotation that comes with "mental disorder/illness" was removed. It was changed because a large enough amount of people were upset with the label to which they were forced to change it. Just as with "intellectually disabled" still meaning "mentally retarded", changing the name of something doesn't change what it fundamentally is.
And a possible genetic abnormality originating in the brain that causes a person to deny the sex/gender they were born with is a mental disorder/illness. I'm not going to address the bit about homosexuality, because unlike transsexualism, I do not believe you are born that way. I'd appreciate if we stay on topic.
It is treatable. It's called going to therapy, and taking medication. As you said with how scienc… [view original content]
It's a given that the theory supporting transsexualism being of biological origin and therefore isn't a disorder or a delusion is the most "acclaimed" at the moment because of the vast amount of LGBT community/supporters and the current popularity in "progressive thinking" and "Social Justice" mantra that's been pushed as of late. No, not all findings regarding the cause have had the same result, there has actually been quite a lot of evidence supporting the prenatal exposure to drugs at the moment. And of course there's going to be decades of research behind it, pretty much any scientific theory having to do with the brain has decades of research behind it, there are plenty of theories and hypotheses that have been researched for many decades with seemingly factual foundation that have ended up being proven false in the end. You simply believe this theory to be most likely, just as I believe the genetic deformity/abnormality theory to be most likely. But neither are fact, the only fact we know for sure right now is that there are people clearly born as males or females thinking they're the other sex/gender due to something originating in the brain. This is enough evidence to surmise that it is a disorder/illness, because it isn't normal, healthy, or beneficial for anyone to possess this line of thinking.
If it was scientifically proven fact as you like to believe, then there wouldn't be an abundance of theories saying otherwise. There would be a clear definition of transsexualism, and a clear cause and origin for it. Which there is not. And many of the other theories have several peer reviews as well supporting their hypothesis and research. Yes, it is obviously a popular theory, it has many supporters and is spotlighted due to social reasons, but it is not scientific fact.
I don't believe these surgeries are helping them fit into society, if anything it is isolating them. They will never be female if they were born male, and they will never be male if they were born female, no amount of surgeries or hormone supplements is going to change that or their DNA. I don't want to sound rude or insensitive, but all it really does is make them seem like some sort of freak of nature, possessing body parts of female and male willingly, and not fitting into either category of gender.
Furthermore, even if hypothetically your theory is true, it is still fundamentally a disorder. You still have a person in a clearly male or female body who now possesses a brain that has developed for the opposite gender, you have a brain, that is in layman's terms, confused. The brain is denying the body's sex, this is obviously not normal. Maybe modern medicine and science is not far enough along to fix such a problem, because it is dealing with the structural growth of the brain, but I don't believe that surgically altering/removing parts of the body to appease the brain's warped view of reality is helping the person suffering from the disorder. That is my opinion on the matter.
It shouldn't be encouraged to try to change your own sex due to the brain not functioning/developing the way it should, something like that should never be normalized. You see what pushing the idea that it isn't a disorder has done, you have kids at impressionable ages who most likely don't even have the genetic abnormality getting confused and thinking they're the other gender, kids who aren't even fully grown that now have access to hormone treatment and sex change operations because it's trendy. This is absolutely insane, and Social Justice says we should normalize it simply so those suffering from the disorder don't have to accept they have a disorder, and so their feelings won't be hurt? I disagree completely, and the method of treatment is in dire need of reform.
Honestly, there is no reason to continue the debate if you are so convinced that one particular theory is stone cold fact, when it is clearly not. This is just becoming repetitive.
Sure, being transsexual can be (and most likely is) caused by many different causes, but when multiple peer reviews have come up with the sa… moreme findings consistently over decades of research (which is the case in the findings that the structure of transsexual people are different than those of the same sex who are not transgender), those findings become scientific fact.
Peer review is the ultimate failsafe from distinguishing between flawed findings and those which are true, and the fact that there are multiple studies from many different research facilities over decades of research that all point consistently towards transgender individuals having a different brain structure than other people of the same sex, means that in this case peer review has shown that these findings are factual.
So, if these people have been scientifically proven to have a birth condition that changes their brain structure (which they have, through decades of re… [view original content]
It's a given that the theory supporting transsexualism being of biological origin and therefore isn't a disorder or a delusion is the most "… moreacclaimed" at the moment because of the vast amount of LGBT community/supporters and the current popularity in "progressive thinking" and "Social Justice" mantra that's been pushed as of late. No, not all findings regarding the cause have had the same result, there has actually been quite a lot of evidence supporting the prenatal exposure to drugs at the moment. And of course there's going to be decades of research behind it, pretty much any scientific theory having to do with the brain has decades of research behind it, there are plenty of theories and hypotheses that have been researched for many decades with seemingly factual foundation that have ended up being proven false in the end. You simply believe this theory to be most likely, just as I believe the genetic deformity/abnormality theory to be mo… [view original content]
Well it involves a little indie game called Recettear i recently played. You play as a little girl named Recette LemonGrass, and she has to pay back a loan to a loan shark named Tear, and if you don't pay the loan back, she kicks you out of your house, and you live in a cardboard box eating garbage.
I didn't believe she would actually do it, I was wrong.
Well it involves a little indie game called Recettear i recently played. You play as a little girl named Recette LemonGrass, and she has to … morepay back a loan to a loan shark named Tear, and if you don't pay the loan back, she kicks you out of your house, and you live in a cardboard box eating garbage.
I didn't believe she would actually do it, I was wrong.
Well it involves a little indie game called Recettear i recently played. You play as a little girl named Recette LemonGrass, and she has to … morepay back a loan to a loan shark named Tear, and if you don't pay the loan back, she kicks you out of your house, and you live in a cardboard box eating garbage.
I didn't believe she would actually do it, I was wrong.
You would really like it , if you can handle the cute overload of the game, and don't take it too seriously. I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't get very Far, like i said the fairy threw me out on streets, and now i'm cold, starving, and eating walnut bread.
Here is the steam link if you wish to find out more about the game.
You would really like it , if you can handle the cute overload of the game, and don't take it too seriously. I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't g… moreet very Far, like i said the fairy threw me out on streets, and now i'm cold, starving, and eating walnut bread.
Here is the steam link if you wish to find out more about the game.
Click here
Sounds to me like a good way to waste your money.
No offense intended!
I don't know about you, but most videogames don't interest me anymore.
The only videogames I've actually found worth playing and replaying are, TWD, TLOU, and the Mass Effect Trilogy.
Other than that, I find that most games are a waste of both money and time, particularly that so many have very little replay value.
Well i been collecting games ever since i was a child. Some people like to buy shoes to make them happy, i buy games and guns to make me happy. I got enough money to buy whatever i want, its never been a concern in my life. I have other issues to ponder at candlelight.
Sounds to me like a good way to waste your money.
No offense intended!
I don't know about you, but most videogames don't interest me any… moremore.
The only videogames I've actually found worth playing and replaying are, TWD, TLOU, and the Mass Effect Trilogy.
Other than that, I find that most games are a waste of both money and time, particularly that so many have very little replay value.
Comments
Would you please go into more detail?
I'm curious to read more about Gender Identity Disorder, as I've never actually heard this term used before, until I read your comment just now.
Do you know any of the specifics about it?
Well, there's plenty of information about it online, as well as in depth medical studies and what not, but this is the basic definition of GID:
"Gender identity disorder (GID) or transsexualism is defined by strong, persistent feelings of identification with the opposite gender and discomfort with one's own assigned sex. People with GID desire to live as members of the opposite sex and often dress and use mannerisms associated with the other gender. For instance, a person identified as a boy may feel and act like a girl. This is distinct from homosexuality in that homosexuals nearly always identify with their apparent sex or gender.
Identity issues may manifest in a variety of different ways. For example, some people with normal genitals and secondary sex characteristics of one gender privately identify more with the other gender. Some may cross-dress, and some may actually seek sex-change surgery. Others are born with ambiguous genitalia, which can raise identity issues."
The point of the matter is that it is a serious mental disorder, and should be treated as such. Majority of the time even if a person with this condition gets a sex-change operation, it doesn't fix any of their problems for them in the long run. All it does is feed into their delusion and their dysphoria. Sadly, there is a reason why transgender/transsexual individuals have such a high suicide count.
How is it a disorder? If it does not negatively effect them or others around them, how does it qualify as a disorder? Can you prove that there is a direct correlation between having recurring dysphoric feelings and being transgender? The suicide count has to do with the environment, not identifying as the opposite sex or anything outside of the binary. Gender is not defined by how you present yourself, which would be either more feminine or more masculine. There is a difference between acting feminine and being a girl. Could you explain to me what acting like a girl means?
How do you have a choice in what brain chemicals you have?
Look it up, Gender Identity Disorder is a classified mental illness. This is a fact, not an opinion. To deny fact would be irrational.
The definition of Dysphoria is an extreme state of unease or dissatisfaction with life. Gender dysphoria (another term for GID) is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Transgender people are unhappy in the bodies they were born in, they believe they were born as the wrong sex, and can't be happy in life unless they are the opposite sex.
Somewhat, but the main reason is due to their dysphoria and the fact that they want to be something that they physically will never be, because it's impossible. It does not matter how many hormones they take or how many surgeries they get, the truth of the matter is they will never be the opposite sex/gender. They are trying to be something they cannot, they are trying to deny their DNA. Females have XX chromosomes, Males have XY chromosomes. There is no getting around that. (Of course there are very rare genetic deformities that don't conform to this, ex; a woman can have a Y chromosome, or a man can have an extra X chromosome etc, but the general consensus is that XX= woman, XY= man.) These individuals commit suicide, because deep down they know that they're living a lie, and will never be who or what they want to be. They have these delusions to begin with due to their illness. What they need is therapy, not a surgery that mutilates their genitals in order to make them look like the opposite sex. Enabling and encouraging people to get surgeries that give them immediate gratification/false happiness is cruel and doesn't actually help them. It would be like encouraging a schizophrenic person's delusions, letting them lose touch with reality, think the voices are real, letting them think the're not mentally ill simply because you don't want to hurt their feelings. I sincerely hope you are not one of those people who seriously believes that gender is a social construct.
I want to make it clear that the people I am addressing here are specifically those who were born with female or male genitalia that are easy to distinguish, and later on wish to be the opposite sex.Though GID also applies to those who are born with ambiguous genitalia, that in itself is an incredibly rare condition, and can't necessarily be used as a general reason or use of support for why transsexualism is a natural inclination, and that it's acceptable/normal to undergo such drastic surgeries.
Being transsexual is actually not a disorder. Gender Identity Disorder is now classified as gender dysphoria as of the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) of 2013 (although some doctors still use the gender identity disorder term, but it's still applied with the DSM-5 definition rather than that of DSM-4 and below, since doing so would be unethical).
The Gender Identity Disorder definition that you listed is out of date, as the definition has been largely overhauled to not include all transsexuals in DSM-5, since I had said above science has now shown that it is actually a actually a biological intersex condition of the brain, as transsexual people have been shown to have the brain structure of the opposite sex from birth (since even those who have never underwent hormone therapy still had the brain structure of the opposite sex) in many different studies (and, as with all intersex conditions, we now know that gender is identified by the brain, since genitalia or chromosome markers are not a guaranteed identifier in intersex individuals).
Gender dysphoria (or gender identity disorder still in some instances, as I stated above) is not applied to all transsexuals, it's only for those who have an extreme discomfort (dysphoria) between their birth sex and the biological gender of their brain. Not all transsexuals suffer from an extreme discomfort (since much of the discomfort comes from environmental factors, such as bullying or abuse).
What would Recette lemongrass say!?!
Gender Dysphoria is GID, the only reason they changed the terminology is so those with this disorder have access to care and treatment (aka hormone supplements and sex change operations) without their condition being used against them. It's harder for them to pursue these treatments when the condition they have has the words "illness" or "disorder" in them, which rightfully so, it should be more difficult for them to have access to these procedures. Basically, enough people claimed that they had, or were diagnosed with this disorder, and demanded treatment/surgery to the point that those higher up were forced to change the terminology in order not to hurt feelings, and allow the person to do what they want with their body without the negative connotation that comes with having a disorder. Which they clearly do have a disorder. Meaning they wish to undergo surgery to make themselves look like the opposite sex/gender.
The way I see it, it's similar to how calling someone "mentally retarded" is out of date, and now it's "intellectually disabled". Because of the negative connotation, because it hurt people's feelings, and because enough people demanded the terminology to be changed. The person is still mentally retarded, it's just no longer nice and acceptable to call them that. Slapping a new name on GID doesn't change what it fundamentally is. Any evidence found within the makeup of the brain/genetics doesn't mean it's not an illness or disorder. Of course people who have this condition are going to have different brain makeups, if they didn't, then it wouldn't be an illness/disorder that they couldn't control. The same can be said for other mental illnesses located in the brain, or caused by genetic makeup/deformities, such as schizophrenia. It's still a disorder, you still have a man convinced he is a woman, and a woman convinced she is a man. I stand by my assessment that these people need serious therapy, not surgeries and hormones that merely give the illusion that they're the opposite sex.
No, it has actually been changed in class between DSM-4 and DSM-5 in matters other than the name. Transgender people who do not have an extreme discomfort with their birth sex are no longer classified with gender identity disorder, only those who have extreme discomfort are classified as such as of DSM-5 (and as I said, many transgender people don't suffer from extreme discomfort since a lot of the discomfort comes from environmental factors such as bullying and abuse). The transgender people who don't suffer from discomfort are no longer classified as having gender identity disorder or gender dysphoria since the passage of DSM-5.
As I said, the brain structure is that of the other gender, so it is actually an intersex condition. There's a lot more to intersex conditions than just ambiguous genetalia. There are also instances where people have more than two genetic markers for gender (i.e.: XXY, XXXY, etc.). There are also people who have some internal organs of the opposite sex (which is the case with transsexuals since that the brain is structurally identical to members of the opposite sex from birth). There are also people with a mix of the above. We now know that gender is determined by the brain (as doctors have found that for people with intersex conditions, their genitalia or chromosomes are not always reliable identifiers for their gender), and the same is true for transsexual people as they have been scientifically shown in many different studies to have an intersex condition of the brain since their brain structure is structurally identical to that of the opposite sex from birth.
Why do you think that it is not acceptable/normal to undergo such surgeries? Your reasoning that transgender people are not genetically the opposite sex does not make sense. As Jennifer already said, transgender people have brain structures that are alike to the opposite of their biological gender. This has been scientifically proven, and there are a multitude of articles on the topic. Being transgender is in no way similar to being schizophrenic. Schizophrenic people endure psychological terror as well as the surreal experience of not being part of the world and experiencing the same events or lack of in the same way as others. They need medication so that they can live life to the fullest, which their schizophrenia stops them from because they cannot tell what is real and what is not. Transgender people's claims of feeling trapped in the opposite sexes body have been to some degree proven. There are plenty of transgender people who don't get the surgery and are still content just expressing their gender identity and being recognized as they wish to be. How do you know that surgeries that help them to achieve the goal of being recognized as their true gender, only give them immediate gratification? I have never heard a trans person say that or anything along those lines. I don't understand why it is not acceptable or normal to get a surgery to give you the genitals of the sex you feel you are. How does it affect you if they choose to get the surgery? Why isn't acceptable? Also there is a difference between something being classified by a disorder and being a disorder, to qualify as a disorder something has to cause you or others around you trauma. Since there are transgender people who don't have dysphoric feelings about their bodies, dysphoria is not always part of being transgender. Considering this how is being transgender a mental disability?
You have a discomfort with your birth sex if you wish to change it, act/dress as the other sex/gender, or wish to be addressed as the other sex/gender. If you don't believe this was the sex you were meant to be, or you're uncomfortable and feel discontent with the way you're perceived, then you are experiencing dysphoria. It is not necessary to want to pursue a sex change operation or hormone treatment in order to have dysphoria. Maybe it's not as severe as other cases, or perhaps a transgender person has convinced themselves it is completely normal and that they legitimately are the opposite sex/gender, but it's a form of dysphoria nonetheless.
As I said before, my post is addressing those who have clear identifiable female or male genitalia, not those who have extremely rare conditions such as ambiguous genitalia, chromosome deformities and abnormalities, legitimate intersex conditions etc. that you're listing. Those are what we call outliers. I'm talking about the general population, not rare cases. Though it's been theorized that our genders are determined by our genetic makeup, as opposed to solely our chromosomes by a few scientists, the norm is still that male=XY, female=XX. This is the general majority, and until these rare instances have become more frequent within the larger population, they will stay as such. Rare abnormalities and genetic deformities that don't affect the general majority. Again, just because there are genetic differences that originate in the brain, does not mean it's normal and not a mental illness.
I also think it is incredibly insidious to spread the idea that wishing to be the opposite sex/gender is normal, and not a disorder, because it has become a fad for youths to be "trans". By saying it's not an illness, you are making it easier for the people who don't actually have any genetic abnormalities to get access to hormone supplements/sex change operations simply because it's "trendy" to think you're born as the wrong sex/gender. It's promoting extreme identity confusion, which shouldn't be encouraged. Many are beginning to say that forcing a person to go to therapy before they get a sex change operation is oppressive and offensive, and should no longer be allowed. I shouldn't need to explain why this is so dangerous if things continue on as they are.
Because these surgeries don't fix the underlying problem, all they do is make them appear to be the opposite sex, which they aren't. It enables their dysphoria, increases their delusions and confusion, and unfortunately makes them akin to a pariah within society because it is easy to tell they aren't actually the sex/gender they're pretending to be. I also believe it is wrong to mutilate your bodies in such a fashion, you were born in that body, unless you have a serious condition that requires surgery, or you have ambiguous genitalia, you shouldn't be having these operations. You should be in therapy getting help.
Schizophrenia isn't synonymous with people who think they're the opposite sex, that is correct, but they are both illnesses that skew your view on reality. Schizophrenics think they hear voices, or hallucinate, which is caused by genetic abnormalities and defects in the brain. Transsexuals think they're the opposite sex/gender, due to genetic abnormalities and defects in the brain. To encourage either of these isn't beneficial, because they're are still suffering from delusion and mental illness, you are just encouraging them to deny reality. Many transgender individuals after transitioning end up committing suicide. These people have a very high suicide rate. Meaning the surgery doesn't solve all their mental problems in the long run.
The disorder does actually cause trauma to the person who has it, and to other people. The person who has GID, because they feel like they don't belong in their body, it is extremely depressing and upsetting for them to be in this body and to be addressed by their body's sex/gender. It can become traumatic the more deluded the person is about their sex/gender. For other people, mostly young people, because it can be frightening to see a person who, let's say is clearly a man dressed/acting as a woman, or see them in the women's restroom etc. If you want an example, I can tell you one that's actually personal. One of my cousin's children couldn't stop crying, had nightmares, and was emotionally traumatized for months because when she was in the locker room at the gym, a man who identified as a female and had undergone a few surgeries, came in and exposed himself. She still refuses to go to that locker room because of the incident.
I never said it was a disability. There is a difference between a mental illness and a mental disability.
I have a feeling you will not change your opinion on this, however, do you have any idea how it feels to be told you are not normal? You have said that trans people are not normal on several occasions and in the one time that you wrote about a hypothetical situation with a trans person, mis-gendered said hypothetical person. Being told that you're not normal has got to be one of the most horrid sinking feelings possible. Being told that your feelings are not valid is one of the most frustrating things I have ever had to deal with being told as a bisexual person. Some people believe me though, including most of the people I am close to. Trans people are told these types of things all the time. I couldn't find any statistics on the number of people who are pro trans-rights, but aside from that even if being transgender was a mental disorder they would still be normal. Trans people are not average because of the number of cis people vs. the number of trans people, but when saying that a group of people are not normal this is almost always used as an insult. If you are using not normal to mean that trans people are damaged or have something wrong with them than you are insinuating that people with mental disabilities have something wrong with them for feeling the way that they feel and that that they are less then. If are using not normal to mean that they are not average by most societal norms than I don't see the point.
I'm not saying it's "not normal" to hurt them, the fact is that it just isn't normal. Normal means this is general, this is typical, this is the average etc. But just because something isn't normal, doesn't mean you're not a person or less deserving of a person. Transsexualism/GID is something that most likely occurs when there is a genetic deformity/abnormality in the brain,a rare intersex condition, or rare ambiguous genitalia etc. Excluding the last two, it is fundamentally a mental illness that causes a person to think they are, or wish to be the opposite sex when they're clearly not. Allowing them to have operations that mutilate their genitals, when they're view of reality is warped, is not acceptable and is detrimental to the person imho.
I don't know which hypothetical situation you're talking about, but the example I utilized about my cousin's daughter actually happened. And I'd appreciate if you'd refrain from saying it didn't, because these types of incidents actually do happen quite often as of late.
I repeat, just because a person isn't normal, or has a mental illness/disorder, doesn't mean they're inferior or less of a person. I have never said anything even close to that. I just believe that the current solution for those that suffer from GID is not justified or efficient, and is more harmful to their mental/emotional stability than anything else. Just because there are a few rare occurrences where a person has ambiguous genitalia, or an intersex condition, doesn't mean it is ok for everyone else who has GID to have sex change operations/hormone treatments. Once you have these operations there is no going back, it is practically irreversible. Nor do I think it's ok to change the terminology just so it's easier for them to have access to these treatments, and to not hurt their feelings. I also don't think it's acceptable to encourage and enable these individuals, or normalize the disorder/illness, because for some insane reason it has become a trend for young people to be "trans", or have a ridiculously long list of disorders/disabilities.
Trans people are not confused there is a difference between expressing yourself in a way typically associate with the opposite sex and feeling as though you are trapped in your body and are the opposite of your biological sex. Once again there is proof that when transgender people feel as though they are the opposite of their biological sex, there is a direct correlation to this in the formation of their brain. Not all transgender people have dysphoric feelings and plenty of trans people, after getting the surgery or other such things to help them be accepted as their gender, become happier and more accepted. However, this doesn't stop issues like trans pay inequality and not being able to use public bathrooms or buy/rent property as easily. Plenty of trans people don't even want to or need to transition to feel comfortable in their gender identity. As for the situation with your cousin, was this woman changing? I doubt she just came in and exposed herself to your cousin for no reason but to shock or disturb your cousin. I understand that it can be hard to accept things and people that you're not used to or are confused about, but did your cousin understand that this woman was trans and not a strange man changing in a locker room meant for girls/women? How old is your cousin? Also, what was the setting of this? Not all trans people would go into a setting like that and change, and if even if they did want to change in that type of setting they should be able to.
What I was referring to when I was talking about the hypothetical situation, I wasn't referring to the situation with your cousin but when you were talking about a man being convinced he is a woman and a woman convinced she is a man. I probably should've phrased that better, however in the situation with your cousin I'm really not clear on exactly what happened.
You're misunderstanding, I am agreeing there can be differences in the brain that cause a person to be transsexual or want to be the opposite sex/gender, but that doesn't mean it's not a mental illness. That is why I drew parallels with schizophrenia, a mental illness that can be caused by genetic differences within the brain. And again, you have dysphoria if you think you're more suited for the opposite sex, wish to be addressed as the other sex/gender, or dress/act like the opposite sex/gender. Even if they don't undergo surgery or get hormone treatment, if they think they are, or should be the opposite sex/gender, that is dysphoria. It means you aren't content with the sex you were born with, regardless of what degree of dysphoria you are experiencing.
She was 13, and there were a few other women, including her friend in the locker room. The person walked in while others were changing, (a few of the other women at this point noticed that this wasn't actually a female) and then began to undress completely for the sauna. My cousin's daughter had an idea about transgender/transsexuals, but this was pretty frightening for her and her friend. More so for my cousin's daughter who immediately began to cry and left the room as quickly as possible. A few others in the locker room got very uncomfortable and also left apparently. I heard that a complaint was filed after the gym was notified there were children in the room when this happened. I don't think the transgender person did this to scare anyone either, but it doesn't change the fact that it very much did. Hence why I don't think these types of surgeries should be so easy to access, because it unfortunately isolates the person from society. We have very differing opinions on the matter, because I don't think they should be able to go into the restrooms/locker rooms specifically for that gender, just because they identify as that sex/gender. They aren't that sex/gender, so they shouldn't go in there.
Ok. If that person is born as a woman, knows they're a woman, but thinks they were meant to be and should be a man, then that means you're convinced that is the gender /sex you are deep down. And vice versa.
Thanks for specifying. I agree that we have very different opinions on that matter, we're probably not going to agree.
And that's perfectly alright, this conversation really doesn't have to end with either of us agreeing. It's both intellectually stimulating and fun to have debates with people who think differently, and are on the opposite sides of the spectrum regarding certain topics.
Exactly. It's been really interesting thinking about this topic from a different point of view.
Dysphoria is extreme discomfort. A lot of transsexual people don't have an extreme discomfort (especially when they are not exposed to negative environmental factors such as bullying or abuse). So, the condition does not apply to them.
Transgender people have a healthy brain, it's just that their brain structure is identical to that of the opposite sex. You can't classify someone as having a mental disorder because they have a birth condition that caused one of their organs to be identical to that which would be considered perfectly healthy in the opposite sex. You wouldn't do so with someone with androgen insensitivity syndrome, who typically have a vagina with internal testes.
Intersex conditions arise during gestation, and sometimes cause internal organs to be that of the opposite sex. Decades of scientific research has shown that this is exactly the case with transsexuals. In all intersex individuals (transsexuals included, since they too have an internal organ which is identical to that of the opposite sex), the brain gender is always the determining factor, since any other factor is unreliable since they have a combination of male and female organs and/or chromosomes.
Again, if a person isn't satisfied with the sex/gender they were born as, or thinks they're better suited as the other sex/gender, then that is dysphoria. Even if they don't seek hormone supplements or surgery, if they think they're the other sex/gender, or should be, then they're not content with the one their body currently is. Because of this, it does, in fact, apply to them.
Because their brain isn't matching up with their body is precisely why it is not normal. You can classify it as a mental disorder, and it already has been. For there are possible genetic abnormalities that are causing their brain to develop in such a way and delude the person into thinking they should be the opposite sex. There are plenty of birth conditions that change the way the brain works that create a mental illness/disorder. Again, I'm not talking about extremely rare conditions like intersex or androgen syndrome, those cases are an exception to the rule, they do not change the rule.
Yes, it has been classified as a mental disorder in the past, but since it no longer is, you can't classify it as such without ignoring modern science and ignoring the latest DSM criteria (just as being gay is no longer classified as a mental disorder in the DSM). We now know that is completely wrong to classify being gay as a mental disorder, as there is a lot of scientific evidence from studies that show is biological, just as we now know that being transgender is biological. The human body is an amazing thing with many different nuances. Science makes new discoveries all the time. That's why medical books are updated all the time. No doctor would ignore the latest scientific research and stick to the old DSM guidelines, as doing so would be immoral, unethical, and would result in the termination of their right to practice medicine.
Just because it is the brain in question doesn't make it a mental disorder. In order to be classified as a mental disorder, it would have to be treatable (since that is what the DSM is for), and to do so it would have to involve things which can be changed such as neural connections or memories stored in neural links. Since the structure of the entire brain itself has been shown to be identical from birth to that of the opposite sex, you can't classify it as such, as brain structure can not be changed (the brain is elastic to a point, but not to that much of an extreme where you can change the entire structure of a brain through therapy or medicine, or even surgery).
If an organ is structurally identical to that of the opposite sex since birth, that is exactly the definition of intersex. The brain is indeed an organ, so the definition fits. You can't classify someone as unhealthy when they have an organ that is structurally identical to that which would be considered healthy in the opposite sex.
I didn't really imagine she would really throw me out, now i am destitute, homeless, living on the streets! DAMN YOU TEAR.
I've already explained this, the terminology was only changed so those suffering from GID could have easier access to treatment, as well as not have their condition be used against them, for the negative connotation that comes with "mental disorder/illness" was removed. It was changed because a large enough amount of people were upset with the label to which they were forced to change it. Just as with "intellectually disabled" still meaning "mentally retarded", changing the name of something doesn't change what it fundamentally is.
And a possible genetic abnormality originating in the brain that causes a person to deny the sex/gender they were born with is a mental disorder/illness. I'm not going to address the bit about homosexuality, because unlike transsexualism, I do not believe you are born that way. I'd appreciate if we stay on topic.
It is treatable. It's called going to therapy, and taking medication. As you said with how science is always evolving, so is modern medicine. Though I disagree with this method, many would say that taking hormone supplements, going to sex reassignment therapy, and getting a sex change operation is a form of treatment. And the brain isn't completely identical at birth, studies have shown that certain regions of the brain are similar in ways, such as in size, but they are not completely identical. Everything you are citing as fact is only theory, do you know how many different theories there are regarding the cause of transsexualism? Some think it's genetic, some think it's caused by prenatal exposure to certain drugs, some think that their brain just happened to develop similarly as the opposite sex, some think it's a pathology, and some, like you, think it's a form of intersex in order to reduce the negative social stigma surrounding the disorder. There is no general consensus for why it occurs. Nothing is concrete, and until it is, I'm inclined to believe it is a mental illness/disorder likely caused by a genetic deformity, for you cannot say it's normal for a man with clearly distinguished male genitalia to think he should be a woman, and vice versa.
Sure, being transsexual can be (and most likely is) caused by many different causes, but when multiple peer reviews have come up with the same findings consistently over decades of research (which is the case in the findings that the structure of transsexual people are different than those of the same sex who are not transgender), those findings become scientific fact.
Peer review is the ultimate failsafe from distinguishing between flawed findings and those which are true, and the fact that there are multiple studies from many different research facilities over decades of research that all point consistently towards transgender individuals having a different brain structure than other people of the same sex, means that in this case peer review has shown that these findings are factual.
So, if these people have been scientifically proven to have a birth condition that changes their brain structure (which they have, through decades of research which continuously backs up the fact that their brain structure is different from others of their gender), and brain structure can not be changed through medicine, therapy, or surgery, what does labeling that person with a mental disorder do beyond adding to the stigma and shame that these people have to deal with in today's world? Conventional wisdom states that if you can't treat the problem (and you definitely can't change brain structure), then the problem must be something else.
So, if treating the brain is not the solution (and it can't be, since brain structure can't be changed), then the solution must lie elsewhere (and it has been shown that the other solution works, since the process that transsexual individuals go through has been shown to help the individuals in question, both emotionally and to fit in better in societal roles).
Why is this thread still alive?
It's a given that the theory supporting transsexualism being of biological origin and therefore isn't a disorder or a delusion is the most "acclaimed" at the moment because of the vast amount of LGBT community/supporters and the current popularity in "progressive thinking" and "Social Justice" mantra that's been pushed as of late. No, not all findings regarding the cause have had the same result, there has actually been quite a lot of evidence supporting the prenatal exposure to drugs at the moment. And of course there's going to be decades of research behind it, pretty much any scientific theory having to do with the brain has decades of research behind it, there are plenty of theories and hypotheses that have been researched for many decades with seemingly factual foundation that have ended up being proven false in the end. You simply believe this theory to be most likely, just as I believe the genetic deformity/abnormality theory to be most likely. But neither are fact, the only fact we know for sure right now is that there are people clearly born as males or females thinking they're the other sex/gender due to something originating in the brain. This is enough evidence to surmise that it is a disorder/illness, because it isn't normal, healthy, or beneficial for anyone to possess this line of thinking.
If it was scientifically proven fact as you like to believe, then there wouldn't be an abundance of theories saying otherwise. There would be a clear definition of transsexualism, and a clear cause and origin for it. Which there is not. And many of the other theories have several peer reviews as well supporting their hypothesis and research. Yes, it is obviously a popular theory, it has many supporters and is spotlighted due to social reasons, but it is not scientific fact.
I don't believe these surgeries are helping them fit into society, if anything it is isolating them. They will never be female if they were born male, and they will never be male if they were born female, no amount of surgeries or hormone supplements is going to change that or their DNA. I don't want to sound rude or insensitive, but all it really does is make them seem like some sort of freak of nature, possessing body parts of female and male willingly, and not fitting into either category of gender.
Furthermore, even if hypothetically your theory is true, it is still fundamentally a disorder. You still have a person in a clearly male or female body who now possesses a brain that has developed for the opposite gender, you have a brain, that is in layman's terms, confused. The brain is denying the body's sex, this is obviously not normal. Maybe modern medicine and science is not far enough along to fix such a problem, because it is dealing with the structural growth of the brain, but I don't believe that surgically altering/removing parts of the body to appease the brain's warped view of reality is helping the person suffering from the disorder. That is my opinion on the matter.
It shouldn't be encouraged to try to change your own sex due to the brain not functioning/developing the way it should, something like that should never be normalized. You see what pushing the idea that it isn't a disorder has done, you have kids at impressionable ages who most likely don't even have the genetic abnormality getting confused and thinking they're the other gender, kids who aren't even fully grown that now have access to hormone treatment and sex change operations because it's trendy. This is absolutely insane, and Social Justice says we should normalize it simply so those suffering from the disorder don't have to accept they have a disorder, and so their feelings won't be hurt? I disagree completely, and the method of treatment is in dire need of reform.
Honestly, there is no reason to continue the debate if you are so convinced that one particular theory is stone cold fact, when it is clearly not. This is just becoming repetitive.
Tear, this is your fault! I blame all of FAIRY KIND!
Click here
Recettear joke #3.
I don't really understand what you're trying to say with this George lol.
Well it involves a little indie game called Recettear i recently played. You play as a little girl named Recette LemonGrass, and she has to pay back a loan to a loan shark named Tear, and if you don't pay the loan back, she kicks you out of your house, and you live in a cardboard box eating garbage.
I didn't believe she would actually do it, I was wrong.
Interesting, never heard of a game like that before.
Lol, wth.
You would really like it , if you can handle the cute overload of the game, and don't take it too seriously. I enjoyed it a lot. I didn't get very Far, like i said the fairy threw me out on streets, and now i'm cold, starving, and eating walnut bread.
Here is the steam link if you wish to find out more about the game.
Click here
I get bored LOL, and well sometimes i buy things when they go on sale. Sometimes i am pleasantly surprised.
Does the game end once you get kicked out, or can you get your house back?
you have to start at the beginning, so make sure you save your game! Broke and starving in the streets, Recette goes into a life of crime.
Sounds to me like a good way to waste your money.
No offense intended!
I don't know about you, but most videogames don't interest me anymore.
The only videogames I've actually found worth playing and replaying are, TWD, TLOU, and the Mass Effect Trilogy.
Other than that, I find that most games are a waste of both money and time, particularly that so many have very little replay value.
Well i been collecting games ever since i was a child. Some people like to buy shoes to make them happy, i buy games and guns to make me happy. I got enough money to buy whatever i want, its never been a concern in my life. I have other issues to ponder at candlelight.