When you use protection/ abstain from having sex you are not looking to reproduce, and you are not part of the reproducing process, which is… more very different from terminating the human development process after you have already started it (as in having an actual human being in development). As I said before, it's like making the point that someone abstaining from sex is robbing children of life just as someone aborting a baby is. Such a point is quite obviously ridiculous, and It makes no sense at all to follow that logic. An unfertilized egg is obviously part of the reproductive process, but it is not the same thing as having a human baby going through development. I'm simply looking at the fact that abortion stops the development of a human being after it has already started. This isn't true in the case of using protection or abstaining from sex where there is nothing more than the potential to start human development, so it is not comparable… [view original content]
I DO NOT support the abortion of a fetus that has already GROWN into a human, baby, but until that point, it really is just a balloon of mindless flesh, and cells. It is unable to feel pain, or fear. Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
Less than 1% of abortions take place PAST four months of pregnancy.
Abortion is not murder.
Abortion is not a sin.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
This, is what 80% of aborted fetus' look like when they are aborted.
lol @ all pro life people who think protection always work
... who has even said that here? No one has said or implied that.
(I'm assuming you're talking in reference to the people supporting pro-life on this thread, considering you had also said this in a reply to one of my comments on the first page)
lol @ all pro life people who think protection always work
accidental an unwanted pregnancy sometimes happen thru no fault of sexers. just happen and if you cant support emotionally fiscally then it ok
Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and should still keep the baby, fuck you. If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
Be upset about it all you want, the woman's own shitty situation does not add justification for killing a human being. Why should she get to feel better about her situation in life at the ultimate expense of someone else's life? Are morals just totally out the window? How can anyone actually be selfish to this extreme?
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
Who cares what it looks like? Do you honestly think that it's physical appearance adds any amount of strength or legitimacy to your argument? It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development.
I DO NOT support the abortion of a fetus that has already GROWN into a human, baby, but until that point, it really is just a balloon of min… moredless flesh, and cells. It is unable to feel pain, or fear. Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
Less than 1% of abortions take place PAST four months of pregnancy.
Abortion is not murder.
Abortion is not a sin.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
This, is what 80% of aborted fetus' look like when they are aborted.
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
I DO NOT support the abortion of a fetus that has already GROWN into a human, baby, but until that point, it really is just a balloon of min… moredless flesh, and cells. It is unable to feel pain, or fear. Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
Less than 1% of abortions take place PAST four months of pregnancy.
Abortion is not murder.
Abortion is not a sin.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
This, is what 80% of aborted fetus' look like when they are aborted.
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
As Belan said, no one has ever claimed that condoms and birth control are a 100% pregnancy preventative. However, they do undeniably help decrease the odds of a girl becoming pregnant. Honestly, if you ever become pregnant, whether you used protection or not really doesn't matter, nor does it justify killing an innocent human being. Simply because if you decide to have sex, you are accepting all the possible consequences that come with having sex. This obviously includes pregnancy. If you are mature enough to be having sex, then you are also mature enough to take responsibility for your actions. If you can't handle possibly having a baby, or contracting an STD, then don't have sex. Have some damn self control until you are ready to deal with the possible consequences. An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes.
lol @ all pro life people who think protection always work
accidental an unwanted pregnancy sometimes happen thru no fault of sexers. just happen and if you cant support emotionally fiscally then it ok
But it isn't all about the mother in the case of an abortion. She isn't the only one being impacted. Why does the argument of "it's my body, so I can do whatever I want", completely ignore the actual life in question (that being the life of the child)? It's honestly a completely invalid excuse.
I support it. It's a woman's choice what to do with her body, not some crusty old man politician who will never be put into the situation hi… moremself.
I'm 17, and if I got pregnant, I would abort the baby as soon as possible. This is my life, my future, and I don't want to bring a child into it until I can actually care for one and want one. It would be unfair to me and unfair to the child.
The "That doesn't look like any human being I've seen." was used to put emphasis on how far it is from becoming a human being. At this point, it hasn't even grown a brain, and the thing that separates humans from all other animals, is our brain.
Brains aside. The whole "Masturbation is genocide thing" isn't true, because abortion isn't murder. A fetus, in the state where it is allowed to be aborted, is nothing but a collection of lifeless proteins, the same as, for example, semen. Therefore, that puts abortion on pretty much the exact same level of masturbating, or even using a condom during sexual intercourse.
You are comparing removing something that has the potential to be a human from your body, to killing, a living thing, with a heart, a brain, feelings, and all.
Now for another argument. There have been cases where a child has been raped, and please don't take my use of the word "Rape" liberally as making light of it, as rape is probably one of the most traumatic things a human being can go through. But, there have been cases where children as young as twelve, and thirteen, have been raped, and impregnated. A child, having such a small body, puts their life at risk when giving birth, not to say that adult women don't, but it goes fucking quadruple for children.
There are also adult women with very, very dangerous disabilities and illnesses that prevent them from safely giving birth at all. Even via caesarian-section, there are cases where giving birth guarantees death for the parent. So I think in cases where the mother, especially if they are a child, is endangered by the birth, and or carrying of said baby, they should be allowed to abort, The lifeless, unmoving, mindless, feeling-less, ball of flesh that is the "Human being" inside of them.
If you don't you are either a religious extremist, or an imbecile.
Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and shou… moreld still keep the baby, fuck you. If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
Be upset about it all you want, the woman's own shitty situation does not add justification for killing a human being. Why should she get to feel better about her situation in life at the ultimate expense of someone else's life? Are morals just totally out the window? How can anyone actually be selfish to this extreme?
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
Who cares what it looks like? Do you honestly think that it's physical appearance adds any amount of strength or legitimacy to your argument? It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development.
Well, I would never have one personally, but I 100% respect a woman's choice to do so. I don't think it's right for anyone but the woman herself to decide what she wants to do with her body and child. I also don't think it's right for anyone else to force her to keep a child that could possibly be a burden (e.g. if the child would be born with a debilitating disease or deformity that would prevent him/her from functioning normally), or if the woman could die from having the baby.
On the other hand, I think a large portion of expecting mothers abort their babies because of purely selfish reasons. The way I see it, if you're not ready (emotionally, financially or otherwise) to have a baby, don't put yourself in a situation that would leave you with one. I think more people need to use common sense. Don't want to burden yourself with a baby? Don't have unprotected sex. And yes, I understand that contraception sometimes fails, condoms break, etc., but it's a woman's responsibility to be mindful of that and know the consequences of her actions. I believe in abstinence, but I know that might not be an option for everybody, in which case caution must be taken not only by the woman but also the person she's sleeping with. Pregnancy should not be taken lightly.
There are happy, loving couples who may be unable to have children of their own (whether they're homosexual or it's due to a health issue) and who would love to adopt, and for a mother to abort her perfectly healthy baby just because she's unwilling to take care of it, to me, is selfish. If anything, let them take care of it. Why can't they have the opportunity? I believe that life begins at conception, and by having an abortion a mother is taking away the child's potential for a happy life. Every human life is beautiful. They shouldn't have to cease to exist simply because the mother doesn't want them. Give them another home; make someone else happy. There are lots of people who would be more than willing to take your place.
In the unfortunate case of rape, I can understand why someone wouldn't want to keep the child, possibly because it serves as a reminder of what happened to them, but it shouldn't have to be their fault for something their father did. The child wouldn't have to know about what happened if he or she was a part of another family, and the mother would not be forced to be reminded of it. Adoption should always be considered before abortion. However, if the child would be unable to function properly after birth (due to a birth defect or a disease that would require life-changing medical interference), then maybe abortion would be ideal, since it would be unfair for the child to be forced to live their life in constant pain when it could have been prevented before birth.
I don't know, those are just my views. No one has to agree with me.
Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and shou… moreld still keep the baby, fuck you. If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
Be upset about it all you want, the woman's own shitty situation does not add justification for killing a human being. Why should she get to feel better about her situation in life at the ultimate expense of someone else's life? Are morals just totally out the window? How can anyone actually be selfish to this extreme?
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
Who cares what it looks like? Do you honestly think that it's physical appearance adds any amount of strength or legitimacy to your argument? It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development.
Exactly my whole point.
Because of people not willing to take responsibility for anything, really, is the reason why the world is in so bad a shape it's in today.
"An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes."
I agree 100%!
If a woman goes out, has unprotected sex with some guy, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, she did it of her own free will.
Same goes for the man who had sex with her.
Their own carelessness is what's to blame, not the unborn child.
And to abort the child for that reason, is cowardly, and "a crime against humanity."
And quite frankly, just because a woman is raped, doesn't mean the child should die for something it's "father" did.
It's not the kid's fault the mother was attacked.
Nor is it the kid's fault it was, "forcibly conceived."
No matter how you cut it, the child is innocent.
And therefore shouldn't have to pay the price for the despicable crime it's "father", committed.
As Belan said, no one has ever claimed that condoms and birth control are a 100% pregnancy preventative. However, they do undeniably help de… morecrease the odds of a girl becoming pregnant. Honestly, if you ever become pregnant, whether you used protection or not really doesn't matter, nor does it justify killing an innocent human being. Simply because if you decide to have sex, you are accepting all the possible consequences that come with having sex. This obviously includes pregnancy. If you are mature enough to be having sex, then you are also mature enough to take responsibility for your actions. If you can't handle possibly having a baby, or contracting an STD, then don't have sex. Have some damn self control until you are ready to deal with the possible consequences. An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes.
The "That doesn't look like any human being I've seen." was used to put emphasis on how far it is from becoming a human being. At this point, it hasn't even grown a brain
I understand what your point was, and I'll say once again: "It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development". It doesn't matter if it has grown a brain yet or not. It's totally irrelevant, as we're still looking at a developing human being. It's stage of development can't be used against it to justify killing it. We all have to start somewhere, obviously. If you were to let the fetus develop without interference, it would be born into the world. So regardless of your personal judgement here, you would still be stealing the life of a human being.
Brains aside. The whole "Masturbation is genocide thing" isn't true, because abortion isn't murder. A fetus, in the state where it is allowed to be aborted, is nothing but a collection of lifeless proteins, the same as, for example, semen. Therefore, that puts abortion on pretty much the exact same level of masturbating, or even using a condom during sexual intercourse.
The fetus is a developing human being. Sperm and eggs are very obviously not developing human beings by themselves. These things cannot even be compared. An abortion kills a specific human being that is already in development. It kills a human at it's most basic form. You can't equate this to simply not conceiving in the first place. You can't kill what you don't have. Obviously it's entirely ridiculous to say someone is murdering unborn children by not going out and making full use of their reproductive potential. It's not ridiculous at all to claim you're murdering unborn children by actively stopping them from being born/ actually killing them when they already are a human being in development. Again, in one case you're killing a developing human being (indisputable), in the other you simply aren't doing anything at all in regards to developing a human being. This is a huge, massive, major difference that makes the comparison 100% invalid, unequal, and illogical. It's not even remotely the same thing.
Now for another argument. There have been cases where a child has been raped, and please don't take my use of the word "Rape" liberally as making light of it, as rape is probably one of the most traumatic things a human being can go through. But, there have been cases where children as young as twelve, and thirteen, have been raped, and impregnated. A child, having such a small body, puts their life at risk when giving birth, not to say that adult women don't, but it goes fucking quadruple for children.
Alright, but that is a totally different argument. In the rare case of the woman's life being genuinely put in danger, I could perhaps see some level of justification. This is certainly the only morally grey area that I could potentially see in regards to this debate.
There are also adult women with very, very dangerous disabilities and illnesses that prevent them from safely giving birth at all. Even via caesarian-section, there are cases where giving birth guarantees death for the parent. So I think in cases where the mother, especially if they are a child, is endangered by the birth, and or carrying of said baby, they should be allowed to abort, The lifeless, unmoving, mindless, feeling-less, ball of flesh that is the "Human being" inside of them. If you don't you are either a religious extremist, or an imbecile.
Again, this particular point wasn't even being debated, so you can slow down on the labeling. As I said in my last point, the mother's life being in danger is potentially the only morally grey area I see in regards to this topic.
The "That doesn't look like any human being I've seen." was used to put emphasis on how far it is from becoming a human being. At this point… more, it hasn't even grown a brain, and the thing that separates humans from all other animals, is our brain.
Brains aside. The whole "Masturbation is genocide thing" isn't true, because abortion isn't murder. A fetus, in the state where it is allowed to be aborted, is nothing but a collection of lifeless proteins, the same as, for example, semen. Therefore, that puts abortion on pretty much the exact same level of masturbating, or even using a condom during sexual intercourse.
You are comparing removing something that has the potential to be a human from your body, to killing, a living thing, with a heart, a brain, feelings, and all.
Now for another argument. There have been cases where a child has been raped, and please don't take my use of the word "Rape" liberally as making light of it, as rape i… [view original content]
Oh. Pardon me then. I must have skimmed over your post a bit. I'm sorry for being so quick to label, and thank you for not immediately jumping to insult, and label me.
That out of the way, I'd like to return to the topic that was being debated, and apologize for straying off of said topic. Now, let's say mother in question is completely healthy, and the baby will likely be born without endangering the mother at all. What if the mother can't support the child? Then the child will likely ruin their mothers life, or, end up being put up for adoption. Many children end up not getting adopted at all, which, is really, a very shitty childhood for said person. Plus, they may end up with very, very little money, and economic opportunity for the rest of their life, which is no way to live.
Now, a bit of a different scenario the baby is born to a mother who cannot support the child, and ends up keeping the baby, and not putting it up for adoption at all. The mother can barely support the child, but keeps herself, and the child fed, unfortunately for the child, it was born in a household where his/her mother cannot pay for health insurance, can't pay for toys, and the child has no father. And when the mother cannot pay for the child's college, that leaves the child with no economic opportunity, with a boring, depressing childhood, and possibly adulthood.
That is just if the child lives in a 1st world country like America, but what if they are born in a horrible place where wars are going on, and they are destined to live their entire lives either fighting, or running and hiding?
The above situations, are situations where I feel that it would be in the best interest of the child, and the mother of the child, to abort the child in question.
Now, back to the subject of comparing the fetus, to sperm. Just because the sperm squirmed it's way inside of an egg, it is a human? Even if that is so, I really, honestly, see nothing wrong with "Killing" something that is a human, specifically because of the state it is at. It's not even alive, it will feel no pain during the procedure, so there will be no suffering whatsoever, the fetus won't suffer, and the mother won't suffer.
Thank you for being civil, even when I wasn't, if you had stooped to my level, it would have changed from a debate, into an argument, and there would have been hurt feelings on both sides.
That being said, I would like to continue this conversation, whether it be here, or in a private chat.
The "That doesn't look like any human being I've seen." was used to put emphasis on how far it is from becoming a human being. At this point… more, it hasn't even grown a brain
I understand what your point was, and I'll say once again: "It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development". It doesn't matter if it has grown a brain yet or not. It's totally irrelevant, as we're still looking at a developing human being. It's stage of development can't be used against it to justify killing it. We all have to start somewhere, obviously. If you were to let the fetus develop without interference, it would be born into the world. So regardless of your personal judgement here, you would still be stealing the life of a human being.
Brains aside. The whole "Masturbation is genocide thing" isn't true, because abortion isn't murder. A fetus, in the state where it is allowed to be aborted, is nothing but a … [view original content]
Hey, if that's your choice. More power to you I suppose.
Although, I must say, flaunting something like abortion like it's something to be proud of is a bit misguided. Women shouldn't be proud of having several abortions in a year just like anyone shouldn't be proud of being in several failed relationships within a year. But, that's the society we live in now I suppose.
If for anything, a women being brave and giving thought into abortion should be something to respect. Not someone that exclaims "back the fuck up, I got another abortion today motherfucker." There's a middle ground; tolerance for things we can't understand and remaining respectful for a woman that decided abortion was the better route and then having lots of unprotected sex and just flushing the egg out because you're personally irresponsible.
Again, if that's you're viewpoint, I respect that cause I'm not nor ever will be a woman. But hubris shouldn't apply for such a sensitive topic like abortion. I'd be the equivalent of me as an atheist saying "fuck god and your religion, you sheeple."
I support it. It's a woman's choice what to do with her body, not some crusty old man politician who will never be put into the situation hi… moremself.
I'm 17, and if I got pregnant, I would abort the baby as soon as possible. This is my life, my future, and I don't want to bring a child into it until I can actually care for one and want one. It would be unfair to me and unfair to the child.
Oh. Pardon me then. I must have skimmed over your post a bit. I'm sorry for being so quick to label, and thank you for not immediately jumpi… moreng to insult, and label me.
That out of the way, I'd like to return to the topic that was being debated, and apologize for straying off of said topic. Now, let's say mother in question is completely healthy, and the baby will likely be born without endangering the mother at all. What if the mother can't support the child? Then the child will likely ruin their mothers life, or, end up being put up for adoption. Many children end up not getting adopted at all, which, is really, a very shitty childhood for said person. Plus, they may end up with very, very little money, and economic opportunity for the rest of their life, which is no way to live.
Now, a bit of a different scenario the baby is born to a mother who cannot support the child, and ends up keeping the baby, and not putting it up for adoption… [view original content]
You can't just give up if your child will have a hard life, there are many people who have had a hard life with many horrible disabilities and still want to live and keep their head up.
You can't just decide for the child that they will be better off dead, that's something they have the full right to decide for themselves, which is why killing them in the womb is just the same as killing them in the crib.
You don't know, they might have the passion to live burning inside them, they might not want to die despite everything they may go through, the uncertainty of that gives them the benefit of being born and deciding for themselves whether to live their lives happily, fall in love, have children of their own and die content, or not.
Life is awful, people are awful, sometimes it's better for a child to not be born at all than to be brought into this world to recieve nothi… moreng but pain and misery, not to mentiion that if the mother is a drug user, an alcoholic or a smoker and she doesn't care about the baby the creature could be doomed to a life of horrible illness, sure killing it may be cruel but in certain situations it might be preferrable, in any case not wanting the baby doesn't necessarily mean the kid will go into adoption, most will stay with their families and often be abused as they grow up due to the resentment the parent holds against them, and even if they go into adoption and get adopted doesn't mean they'll have good parents, sure that doesn't the kid doesn't deserve a chance but if I'm honest I'm not really against it, I've seen plenty of kids suffer and it's always the most awful and heartbreaking thing, hell I once saw little girls selling themselves on th… [view original content]
Some opinions don't deserve respect.
oh i see...only your opinions matter, anyone that disagree with you is a moron right? this is the last post. take care buddy.
I respect the fact that he wanted to do what he thought was best for his people, yet I know that he was undeniably wrong and had a twisted grip on reality and the world. He was sick in the head, I pity him, and I despise him most of the time, but I still respect his views.
When I say "respect", I don't mean "agree", I simply mean that I won't force him to think otherwise, only try to show him why he was wrong, however if it comes to actions, that's a whole other thing - only when he forced his opinion on others and took action, took lives leaning on it did I start to disrespect him.
Yes, I respect his opinion, but I don't respect the fact that he did more than just state his opinion.
Look up the name "Dr. Bernard Nathanson" and read some of the things he said, might give you some insight on the topic from someone who actually knew about it more than most people (being responsible for an estimated amount of 75 thousand aborted babies I can confidently say that he was an expert).
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Children are precious, no matter how they're born.
They're not throw away items, they're people.
As I said in a previous comment, If a woman has unprotected sex with a man, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, that's what she chose to do, and the same thing is true of the man who had sex with her.
And I personally am not gonna feel sorry for them, as they put themselves in that situation to begin with.
And it's inhuman for the woman to take away that child's life, all because "she's not ready to be a mom."
Or because, " it's an inconvenient time for her to be pregnant."
It's downright cowardly on her part.
And it's also cowardly on the father's part to support her in such an endeavor, cause really all he'd be doing is using it to get out of the responsibility he helped to create.
If people are not ready for the possibility of parenthood, they should do either one-of-two things, and it's not rocket-science, it's actually very simple.
Either use a condom each and everytime before sexual activities.
Or, do not have sex, PERIOD!
Now you brought up the subject, about the possibility of the woman dying in childbirth.
Well, frankly, that still doesn't make having an abortion right.
Life's not all about doing whatever it takes to survive to another day.
Sometimes you gotta make a stand, no matter what the cost.
I support it. It's a woman's choice what to do with her body, not some crusty old man politician who will never be put into the situation hi… moremself.
I'm 17, and if I got pregnant, I would abort the baby as soon as possible. This is my life, my future, and I don't want to bring a child into it until I can actually care for one and want one. It would be unfair to me and unfair to the child.
Now you brought up the subject, about the possibility of the woman dying in childbirth. Well, frankly, that still doesn't make having an abortion right. Life's not all about doing whatever it takes to survive to another day. Sometimes you gotta make a stand, no matter what the cost.
So... hypothetically speaking. If a young woman got raped resulting in a preganancy and there was a high possibilty that she could die during childbirth, what would you propose she do then? Obviously she has the right to value her own life more than the fetus at this point. So where do you draw the line? Do you honestly believe she should just go along with the pregnancy, sacrificing her life when she had so much to live for, added with the fact that it wasn't even her fault that she was put in that shitty situation to begin with? I mean, doesn't that pretty much contradict being "pro-life?"
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Children are precious, no matter how they're born.
They're not throw away items, they're people.
As I said… more in a previous comment, If a woman has unprotected sex with a man, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, that's what she chose to do, and the same thing is true of the man who had sex with her.
And I personally am not gonna feel sorry for them, as they put themselves in that situation to begin with.
And it's inhuman for the woman to take away that child's life, all because "she's not ready to be a mom."
Or because, " it's an inconvenient time for her to be pregnant."
It's downright cowardly on her part.
And it's also cowardly on the father's part to support her in such an endeavor, cause really all he'd be doing is using it to get out of the responsibility he helped to create.
If people are not ready for the possibility of parenthood, they should do either … [view original content]
Actions are based on opinions. People are free to have their desired opinions and ideas, as long as it doesn't harm those around them; but as I said, Harmful opinions can lead to harmful actions that affect the others.
I respect the fact that he wanted to do what he thought was best for his people, yet I know that he was undeniably wrong and had a twisted g… morerip on reality and the world. He was sick in the head, I pity him, and I despise him most of the time, but I still respect his views.
When I say "respect", I don't mean "agree", I simply mean that I won't force him to think otherwise, only try to show him why he was wrong, however if it comes to actions, that's a whole other thing - only when he forced his opinion on others and took action, took lives leaning on it did I start to disrespect him.
Yes, I respect his opinion, but I don't respect the fact that he did more than just state his opinion.
But it isn't all about the mother in the case of an abortion. She isn't the only one being impacted. Why does the argument of "it's my body,… more so I can do whatever I want", completely ignore the actual life in question (that being the life of the child)? It's honestly a completely invalid excuse.
Like I said it's unfair but that's the way life is, giving up may not be the correct choice but I'm not going to judge someone for it and besides even if it's not legal people will do it just in less sanitary and safe ways that may end up putting them in danger, so whatever there's no point in outlawing better to do it legally and make sure it's done in a safe way than the alternative.
And yeah of course people want to live, but those people they are exceptional people most aren't like them, sure it isn't fair to negate them of a chance but that decision is not up to them and what are you going to do?
You can't simply force someone to carry their unborn and unwanted baby for nine months, life isn't fair but it's also not black and white either.
You can't just give up if your child will have a hard life, there are many people who have had a hard life with many horrible disabilities a… morend still want to live and keep their head up.
You can't just decide for the child that they will be better off dead, that's something they have the full right to decide for themselves, which is why killing them in the womb is just the same as killing them in the crib.
You don't know, they might have the passion to live burning inside them, they might not want to die despite everything they may go through, the uncertainty of that gives them the benefit of being born and deciding for themselves whether to live their lives happily, fall in love, have children of their own and die content, or not.
Look at this girl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KISKYTJ6Ow
Here's a woman conceived in rape, let's see what she has to say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skHApmfOjAQ
It might be hard to believe, but some people actually want to be alive...
Now you brought up the subject, about the possibility of the woman dying in childbirth. Well, frankly, that still doesn't make having an abo… morertion right. Life's not all about doing whatever it takes to survive to another day. Sometimes you gotta make a stand, no matter what the cost.
So... hypothetically speaking. If a young woman got raped resulting in a preganancy and there was a high possibilty that she could die during childbirth, what would you propose she do then? Obviously she has the right to value her own life more than the fetus at this point. So where do you draw the line? Do you honestly believe she should just go along with the pregnancy, sacrificing her life when she had so much to live for, added with the fact that it wasn't even her fault that she was put in that shitty situation to begin with? I mean, doesn't that pretty much contradict being "pro-life?"
Exactly my whole point.
Because of people not willing to take responsibility for anything, really, is the reason why the world is in so ba… mored a shape it's in today.
"An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes."
I agree 100%!
If a woman goes out, has unprotected sex with some guy, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, she did it of her own free will.
Same goes for the man who had sex with her.
Their own carelessness is what's to blame, not the unborn child.
And to abort the child for that reason, is cowardly, and "a crime against humanity."
And quite frankly, just because a woman is raped, doesn't mean the child should die for something it's "father" did.
It's not the kid's fault the mother was attacked.
Nor is it the kid's fault it was, "forcibly conceived."
No matter how you cut it, the child is innocent.
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Still even in the case of rape, for the mother to terminate the life of her unborn child, just to spare herself, wouldn't you say that is still a selfish thing for her to do?
No. Are we, as humans, not built to want to survive? Because think of it this way: If you were to deny a pregnant rape victim the right to abort the child even if childbirth would kill her, how is that not murder? You are asking someone to die for someone else. She didn't get a choice. It's like forcing someone to go to war for their country. Why can't they have any right to not risk their life?
Still even in the case of rape, for the mother to terminate the life of her unborn child, just to spare herself, wouldn't you say that is still a selfish thing for her to do?
Comments
assuming protection always work lol
lol @ all pro life people who think protection always work
accidental an unwanted pregnancy sometimes happen thru no fault of sexers. just happen and if you cant support emotionally fiscally then it ok
Those opinions are valid, you being close-minded to other opinions doesn't mean they don't deserve respect.
And in this case, they sure as fuck do.
Both do, what's your point?
I DO NOT support the abortion of a fetus that has already GROWN into a human, baby, but until that point, it really is just a balloon of mindless flesh, and cells. It is unable to feel pain, or fear. Like I said, if abortion is murder, than masturbation is genocide.
Less than 1% of abortions take place PAST four months of pregnancy.
Abortion is not murder.
Abortion is not a sin.
And if you seriously think of a woman gets raped, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
If you think if a woman gets pregnant by mistake, and should still keep the baby, fuck you.
This, is what 80% of aborted fetus' look like when they are aborted.
That doesn't look like any human I've seen.
... who has even said that here? No one has said or implied that.
(I'm assuming you're talking in reference to the people supporting pro-life on this thread, considering you had also said this in a reply to one of my comments on the first page)
Be upset about it all you want, the woman's own shitty situation does not add justification for killing a human being. Why should she get to feel better about her situation in life at the ultimate expense of someone else's life? Are morals just totally out the window? How can anyone actually be selfish to this extreme?
Who cares what it looks like? Do you honestly think that it's physical appearance adds any amount of strength or legitimacy to your argument? It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development.
I wish women could give birth to dinosaurs.
As Belan said, no one has ever claimed that condoms and birth control are a 100% pregnancy preventative. However, they do undeniably help decrease the odds of a girl becoming pregnant. Honestly, if you ever become pregnant, whether you used protection or not really doesn't matter, nor does it justify killing an innocent human being. Simply because if you decide to have sex, you are accepting all the possible consequences that come with having sex. This obviously includes pregnancy. If you are mature enough to be having sex, then you are also mature enough to take responsibility for your actions. If you can't handle possibly having a baby, or contracting an STD, then don't have sex. Have some damn self control until you are ready to deal with the possible consequences. An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes.
I know a couple of videos and pics that-
Oh, wait, nevermind.
Now you got me curious.
I've already said too much, frankly.
TOO MUCH.
I'm going to google dinosaur birth, wish me luck. :P
Oh, you'll need it. I'd give you some helpful links, but the FBI will start looking for me if I do.
But it isn't all about the mother in the case of an abortion. She isn't the only one being impacted. Why does the argument of "it's my body, so I can do whatever I want", completely ignore the actual life in question (that being the life of the child)? It's honestly a completely invalid excuse.
The "That doesn't look like any human being I've seen." was used to put emphasis on how far it is from becoming a human being. At this point, it hasn't even grown a brain, and the thing that separates humans from all other animals, is our brain.
Brains aside. The whole "Masturbation is genocide thing" isn't true, because abortion isn't murder. A fetus, in the state where it is allowed to be aborted, is nothing but a collection of lifeless proteins, the same as, for example, semen. Therefore, that puts abortion on pretty much the exact same level of masturbating, or even using a condom during sexual intercourse.
You are comparing removing something that has the potential to be a human from your body, to killing, a living thing, with a heart, a brain, feelings, and all.
Now for another argument. There have been cases where a child has been raped, and please don't take my use of the word "Rape" liberally as making light of it, as rape is probably one of the most traumatic things a human being can go through. But, there have been cases where children as young as twelve, and thirteen, have been raped, and impregnated. A child, having such a small body, puts their life at risk when giving birth, not to say that adult women don't, but it goes fucking quadruple for children.
There are also adult women with very, very dangerous disabilities and illnesses that prevent them from safely giving birth at all. Even via caesarian-section, there are cases where giving birth guarantees death for the parent. So I think in cases where the mother, especially if they are a child, is endangered by the birth, and or carrying of said baby, they should be allowed to abort, The lifeless, unmoving, mindless, feeling-less, ball of flesh that is the "Human being" inside of them.
If you don't you are either a religious extremist, or an imbecile.
Well, I would never have one personally, but I 100% respect a woman's choice to do so. I don't think it's right for anyone but the woman herself to decide what she wants to do with her body and child. I also don't think it's right for anyone else to force her to keep a child that could possibly be a burden (e.g. if the child would be born with a debilitating disease or deformity that would prevent him/her from functioning normally), or if the woman could die from having the baby.
On the other hand, I think a large portion of expecting mothers abort their babies because of purely selfish reasons. The way I see it, if you're not ready (emotionally, financially or otherwise) to have a baby, don't put yourself in a situation that would leave you with one. I think more people need to use common sense. Don't want to burden yourself with a baby? Don't have unprotected sex. And yes, I understand that contraception sometimes fails, condoms break, etc., but it's a woman's responsibility to be mindful of that and know the consequences of her actions. I believe in abstinence, but I know that might not be an option for everybody, in which case caution must be taken not only by the woman but also the person she's sleeping with. Pregnancy should not be taken lightly.
There are happy, loving couples who may be unable to have children of their own (whether they're homosexual or it's due to a health issue) and who would love to adopt, and for a mother to abort her perfectly healthy baby just because she's unwilling to take care of it, to me, is selfish. If anything, let them take care of it. Why can't they have the opportunity? I believe that life begins at conception, and by having an abortion a mother is taking away the child's potential for a happy life. Every human life is beautiful. They shouldn't have to cease to exist simply because the mother doesn't want them. Give them another home; make someone else happy. There are lots of people who would be more than willing to take your place.
In the unfortunate case of rape, I can understand why someone wouldn't want to keep the child, possibly because it serves as a reminder of what happened to them, but it shouldn't have to be their fault for something their father did. The child wouldn't have to know about what happened if he or she was a part of another family, and the mother would not be forced to be reminded of it. Adoption should always be considered before abortion. However, if the child would be unable to function properly after birth (due to a birth defect or a disease that would require life-changing medical interference), then maybe abortion would be ideal, since it would be unfair for the child to be forced to live their life in constant pain when it could have been prevented before birth.
I don't know, those are just my views. No one has to agree with me.
LMFAO Belan the gif XD
Exactly my whole point.
Because of people not willing to take responsibility for anything, really, is the reason why the world is in so bad a shape it's in today.
"An accidental pregnancy is still not the child's fault, and it's immoral to justify killing them for the mother's own mistakes."
I agree 100%!
If a woman goes out, has unprotected sex with some guy, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, she did it of her own free will.
Same goes for the man who had sex with her.
Their own carelessness is what's to blame, not the unborn child.
And to abort the child for that reason, is cowardly, and "a crime against humanity."
And quite frankly, just because a woman is raped, doesn't mean the child should die for something it's "father" did.
It's not the kid's fault the mother was attacked.
Nor is it the kid's fault it was, "forcibly conceived."
No matter how you cut it, the child is innocent.
And therefore shouldn't have to pay the price for the despicable crime it's "father", committed.
I understand what your point was, and I'll say once again: "It is indisputably a human being, regardless of it being at it's lowest stage of development". It doesn't matter if it has grown a brain yet or not. It's totally irrelevant, as we're still looking at a developing human being. It's stage of development can't be used against it to justify killing it. We all have to start somewhere, obviously. If you were to let the fetus develop without interference, it would be born into the world. So regardless of your personal judgement here, you would still be stealing the life of a human being.
The fetus is a developing human being. Sperm and eggs are very obviously not developing human beings by themselves. These things cannot even be compared. An abortion kills a specific human being that is already in development. It kills a human at it's most basic form. You can't equate this to simply not conceiving in the first place. You can't kill what you don't have. Obviously it's entirely ridiculous to say someone is murdering unborn children by not going out and making full use of their reproductive potential. It's not ridiculous at all to claim you're murdering unborn children by actively stopping them from being born/ actually killing them when they already are a human being in development. Again, in one case you're killing a developing human being (indisputable), in the other you simply aren't doing anything at all in regards to developing a human being. This is a huge, massive, major difference that makes the comparison 100% invalid, unequal, and illogical. It's not even remotely the same thing.
Alright, but that is a totally different argument. In the rare case of the woman's life being genuinely put in danger, I could perhaps see some level of justification. This is certainly the only morally grey area that I could potentially see in regards to this debate.
Again, this particular point wasn't even being debated, so you can slow down on the labeling. As I said in my last point, the mother's life being in danger is potentially the only morally grey area I see in regards to this topic.
Oh. Pardon me then. I must have skimmed over your post a bit. I'm sorry for being so quick to label, and thank you for not immediately jumping to insult, and label me.
That out of the way, I'd like to return to the topic that was being debated, and apologize for straying off of said topic. Now, let's say mother in question is completely healthy, and the baby will likely be born without endangering the mother at all. What if the mother can't support the child? Then the child will likely ruin their mothers life, or, end up being put up for adoption. Many children end up not getting adopted at all, which, is really, a very shitty childhood for said person. Plus, they may end up with very, very little money, and economic opportunity for the rest of their life, which is no way to live.
Now, a bit of a different scenario the baby is born to a mother who cannot support the child, and ends up keeping the baby, and not putting it up for adoption at all. The mother can barely support the child, but keeps herself, and the child fed, unfortunately for the child, it was born in a household where his/her mother cannot pay for health insurance, can't pay for toys, and the child has no father. And when the mother cannot pay for the child's college, that leaves the child with no economic opportunity, with a boring, depressing childhood, and possibly adulthood.
That is just if the child lives in a 1st world country like America, but what if they are born in a horrible place where wars are going on, and they are destined to live their entire lives either fighting, or running and hiding?
The above situations, are situations where I feel that it would be in the best interest of the child, and the mother of the child, to abort the child in question.
Now, back to the subject of comparing the fetus, to sperm. Just because the sperm squirmed it's way inside of an egg, it is a human? Even if that is so, I really, honestly, see nothing wrong with "Killing" something that is a human, specifically because of the state it is at. It's not even alive, it will feel no pain during the procedure, so there will be no suffering whatsoever, the fetus won't suffer, and the mother won't suffer.
Thank you for being civil, even when I wasn't, if you had stooped to my level, it would have changed from a debate, into an argument, and there would have been hurt feelings on both sides.
That being said, I would like to continue this conversation, whether it be here, or in a private chat.
Hey, if that's your choice. More power to you I suppose.
Although, I must say, flaunting something like abortion like it's something to be proud of is a bit misguided. Women shouldn't be proud of having several abortions in a year just like anyone shouldn't be proud of being in several failed relationships within a year. But, that's the society we live in now I suppose.
If for anything, a women being brave and giving thought into abortion should be something to respect. Not someone that exclaims "back the fuck up, I got another abortion today motherfucker." There's a middle ground; tolerance for things we can't understand and remaining respectful for a woman that decided abortion was the better route and then having lots of unprotected sex and just flushing the egg out because you're personally irresponsible.
Again, if that's you're viewpoint, I respect that cause I'm not nor ever will be a woman. But hubris shouldn't apply for such a sensitive topic like abortion. I'd be the equivalent of me as an atheist saying "fuck god and your religion, you sheeple."
Just my two cents.
If you can do it here it would be good, because I'd like to know how it goes.. If you want
You can't just give up if your child will have a hard life, there are many people who have had a hard life with many horrible disabilities and still want to live and keep their head up.
You can't just decide for the child that they will be better off dead, that's something they have the full right to decide for themselves, which is why killing them in the womb is just the same as killing them in the crib.
You don't know, they might have the passion to live burning inside them, they might not want to die despite everything they may go through, the uncertainty of that gives them the benefit of being born and deciding for themselves whether to live their lives happily, fall in love, have children of their own and die content, or not.
Look at this girl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KISKYTJ6Ow
Here's a woman conceived in rape, let's see what she has to say:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skHApmfOjAQ
It might be hard to believe, but some people actually want to be alive...
Based on their existence and identity as human beings.
Hitler's opinion was that jewish people don't deserve to live. Do you respect that opinion?
No, I didn't say that at all. You take care too, bud.
Depends on your definition of "valid".
I respect the fact that he wanted to do what he thought was best for his people, yet I know that he was undeniably wrong and had a twisted grip on reality and the world. He was sick in the head, I pity him, and I despise him most of the time, but I still respect his views.
When I say "respect", I don't mean "agree", I simply mean that I won't force him to think otherwise, only try to show him why he was wrong, however if it comes to actions, that's a whole other thing - only when he forced his opinion on others and took action, took lives leaning on it did I start to disrespect him.
Yes, I respect his opinion, but I don't respect the fact that he did more than just state his opinion.
By valid I meant that they are nothing but opinions, they can be heard and can be respected, but don't have to be taken seriously.
Look up the name "Dr. Bernard Nathanson" and read some of the things he said, might give you some insight on the topic from someone who actually knew about it more than most people (being responsible for an estimated amount of 75 thousand aborted babies I can confidently say that he was an expert).
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Children are precious, no matter how they're born.
They're not throw away items, they're people.
As I said in a previous comment, If a woman has unprotected sex with a man, and gets pregnant as a result, that's her problem.
Nobody made her do that, that's what she chose to do, and the same thing is true of the man who had sex with her.
And I personally am not gonna feel sorry for them, as they put themselves in that situation to begin with.
And it's inhuman for the woman to take away that child's life, all because "she's not ready to be a mom."
Or because, " it's an inconvenient time for her to be pregnant."
It's downright cowardly on her part.
And it's also cowardly on the father's part to support her in such an endeavor, cause really all he'd be doing is using it to get out of the responsibility he helped to create.
If people are not ready for the possibility of parenthood, they should do either one-of-two things, and it's not rocket-science, it's actually very simple.
Either use a condom each and everytime before sexual activities.
Or, do not have sex, PERIOD!
Now you brought up the subject, about the possibility of the woman dying in childbirth.
Well, frankly, that still doesn't make having an abortion right.
Life's not all about doing whatever it takes to survive to another day.
Sometimes you gotta make a stand, no matter what the cost.
So... hypothetically speaking. If a young woman got raped resulting in a preganancy and there was a high possibilty that she could die during childbirth, what would you propose she do then? Obviously she has the right to value her own life more than the fetus at this point. So where do you draw the line? Do you honestly believe she should just go along with the pregnancy, sacrificing her life when she had so much to live for, added with the fact that it wasn't even her fault that she was put in that shitty situation to begin with? I mean, doesn't that pretty much contradict being "pro-life?"
Actions are based on opinions. People are free to have their desired opinions and ideas, as long as it doesn't harm those around them; but as I said, Harmful opinions can lead to harmful actions that affect the others.
It's about the child as much as it is about the parents. How would you feel about your existence being unwanted?
Like I said it's unfair but that's the way life is, giving up may not be the correct choice but I'm not going to judge someone for it and besides even if it's not legal people will do it just in less sanitary and safe ways that may end up putting them in danger, so whatever there's no point in outlawing better to do it legally and make sure it's done in a safe way than the alternative.
And yeah of course people want to live, but those people they are exceptional people most aren't like them, sure it isn't fair to negate them of a chance but that decision is not up to them and what are you going to do?
You can't simply force someone to carry their unborn and unwanted baby for nine months, life isn't fair but it's also not black and white either.
I agree. That's basically murder.
It's no more fair for the mother to pay the price either. She didn't get any more choice Than the unborn child did.
Still even in the case of rape, for the mother to terminate the life of her unborn child, just to spare herself, wouldn't you say that is still a selfish thing for her to do?
No. Are we, as humans, not built to want to survive? Because think of it this way: If you were to deny a pregnant rape victim the right to abort the child even if childbirth would kill her, how is that not murder? You are asking someone to die for someone else. She didn't get a choice. It's like forcing someone to go to war for their country. Why can't they have any right to not risk their life?