Quick thing about Bigby and Snow's children/cubs
I've read here and in other forum I googled, people talking about how the cubs may be doomed to the same fate, the winnowing, that curses Snow's family line, but... shouldn't they for start be all female then?
I suppose Snow may have broken the "curse", or "cycle", in bedding Bigby, a demigod of arguably greater power than her and with a set destiny/fate to have children monstrously powerful as him. Besides, I don't think nothing in the comics ever implied they may be destined to kill each other (did I miss something? their mysterious fate doesn't seem to imply the winnowing).
Also, there's a major thing that I've thought about now... Lauda had 13 daughters, and when they came to blows it was very late in the life of many of them (seemly except for Lauda, but one can't really tell anybody's age in the comics), thus I wonder if they couldn't have had children before the winnowing started, and, if they could, how would that work with the shared powers thing. Just imagine the implications of having 2, 3, 4... all of them each having a few daughters before they started killing each other... crazy!
That's why I suppose Lauda and her sisters couldn't have had any children however hard they tried until the victor had arise. That simplifies things, and implies that Snow may just have broken the cycle, like her mother tried to. Finally, meaning that Snow doesn't really have to kill Rose and maybe Hope, as an agent of the Fates, who have just been wronged yet again (firstly by Bigby), is trying to set these things straight.
So.. does anybody have any thoughts to share? Thanks for your time!
Comments
You do raise some good points sir!!!
In 149 we see Wolf Manor in ruins and the Cubs are nowhere to be found by Snow... Now Therese is an adult and Winter technically is as well given that she is the new North Wind.
The Cubs have always been a bit of an anomaly in the series cuz they have never really been focused on, and when they have their situation never implies that a hatred is brewing amongst them.
I would like to believe that thanks to Bigby, the Cubs do not have to follow the same Fates as their ancestors did because of the Fates that he has essentially given them...
But we'll have to wait and see what happens, Issue 150 will be 150 pages long and the Cubs will definitely appear. 3 of the Fates still need to be revealed for a start...
Other person who has to appear on the final issue is Lauda. I doubt the focus on her was just for backstory. Her story could be resumed to a single issue if details about her character weren't important. I bet she's alive, I strongly believe she's Totenkinder... somehow... she must have lied when she told Snow and Rose her story or something.
I have to reread the last issues when the twins feud really begun. Totenkinder was trying to run away after her duel with Mr. Dark, and she was damn afraid of surrendering to her flesh's desires... Remember how she aged on purpose, maybe if she kept herself young she could have more children.
Also, it wasn't answered when Lauda's and her sisters time for the winnowing came... How her mother knew/felt it. How a change in the mother or the children meant the time had arrived. And note how it took dammed centuries for the time of Snow and Rose to come!
Lastly, it's notable how Lauda and Totenkinder share many characteristics in their magic usage. Making stupid rhymes, like when Totenkinder pulled Baba Yaga towards her (a bug in her spell casting), or when Lauda rhymed to turn herself into a bird to meet the king... when Totenkinder used trigger words in her duel against Mr. Dark, and as seen in the last issue how Lauda used a trigger word to finish her last sister.
I can't wait for this story to come to a close! :-D
I doubt Lauda has more of a role to play... Witches use trigger words for spells, even Ozma used them
Lauda's backstory was to explain 'WHY' Snow and Rose would have this conflict and end up killing each other. Frau probably does know things, but we'll have to see whether Cinderella succeeds in killing her first...
Cindy won't stand a chance really.
You never know...
Actually it was mentioned when the winnowing starts. It specifically stated that when their mother can no longer have children.
Hope already said that she hoped the winnowing would skip Snow and Rose, but continue afterwards.
That's true! I didn't remember. Now then, we have to wonder why did the winnowing just started now with Snow and Rose...
Maybe Hope used a lot of her strength to prevent Snow & Rose from winnowing.
How would it skip a generation if the power is divided between the two?
Besides, Hope isn't trustworthy at all. She was at first contacting Snow then defected to Rose. I don't remember when exactly she last contacted Snow, when she glamoured as Collin said her "farewell", but if my theory is right it must have been just after she had the cubs, which she wasn't supposed to be able to in the fist place, and to confirm it wronged the family cycle the children were not all just females. Now, I remember that with Rose she seized the opportunity to approach when the spoiled little brat was depressed and vulnerable. And it was about the Farm again, just like the first time she contacted Snow. Hope was following a plan or instructions from the Fates from the beginning, I'm sure of it.
The whole story started with Snow going up to the Farm and being rallied to become a leader by Hope, as an agent of the Fates. Bigby was the monkey wrench thrown in to fuck up their schemes. Either his seed was to strong or, like I ratter believe, their true love (even with their minds affected by Bluebeard/Goldilock's little spell) was too strong for the family curse. After this they were left with Rose, and Snow had to be the one to die for the power to flow to her so she could then have children and continue the acursed cycle.
Take notice on how Rose has whored her way around centuries uncounted. Fucking all kinds from princes and kings to malcontents like Jack, and probably even beast-men like Bigby as well. And Snow too had her share of adventures, even after traumatically being raped by dwarves for months in her youth. She had Charming and I doubt he was the only. Some probably were implied during the series... Now then, how could neither of them ever had been impregnated if not by the curse not allowing it before the power had flown to the single victor of the winnowing? Specially Rose... that whore, lol.
And there's also the question on why were Snow and Rose powers were dormant all that time. Lauda's and her sisters' powers sure were active and they had been practicing spellcraft probably from a very young age, way before the winnowing had started. My guess is that Lauda may have something to do with it... probably, the same way she was able to control the flow of the magic of her dead sisters and (part of) her own when she "divorced" them, she was also able to hold off her daughter's powers, as a way to protect them. Lauda must have forever been around protecting Snow and Rose, even when they were living separated. She must have believed that she could have held off the winnowing until she could find a way to save her daughters from continuing it.
If I'm right and Totenkinder and Laura are the same person, keeping herself old and powerful must have been the way to keep herself from ever having more children and from keeping her daughters magic contained. And her duel with Mr. Dark must have been the tipping point to her balance (I'm not sure if saying it like this makes sense in english). Her "siding" with Rose too could be a way to try and influence her into not fighting Snow (I just haven't given thought yet as to how it would help).
...
Anyway, here I went again... thinking up stuff as I was typing. I wish I had more time to reread the comics and think through my theories to make sense of this so crazy and alien story. I hope I find a day or two to lay down and read quickly through Fables from issue 1 and specials to 149 before the release of the end. This whole thing is too exciting and I can't just sit around and wait for it to come out with all the answers. I wanna be surprised but I wanna exercize my interpretation and imagination too. :-p
And now she's encouraging Rose to just get done with it and kill Snow? No, she's just manipulating Rose as she tried to manipulate Snow before... she just didn't get so far with Snow... too bad for her as Rose was a sitting duck and her first choice and ally would have easily won.
Hope tried to manipulate Snow? When???
Even if Cindy managed to get the jump in Totenkinder and, say, kill her with an insanely overpowered weapon (I doubt even one of those 7 swords or an arrow like the one that was shot against Bigby could do the trick), she would still have to figure out a way to permanently kill the goddamn archetype of witch, the God of witches if you please... Who has crawled her way back from the grave how many times know? Of the ones we know of anyway...
Ok then, Snow has sent Cinderella to her death!
Maybe Cindy could blow up Frau along with herself?
When she glamoured herself as Collin's ghost... and haunted her dreams as to warn her of "events" to come. It obviously wasn't about the war against The Adversary. Reread the issue and listen to "Collin's" warning as if Fate was preparing Snow to tell her about the winnowing.
I bet Frau could regain her form even if completely vaporized by a nuke. Her mundane matter probably isn't necessary for her existence. When she died by the hands of Mr. Dark she quickly regained her form miles away (in the farm if I remember correctly). She sure still have spells triggered to rebirth her whenever she dies, or it's something like what happened to Bigby when he was turned into crystal and then shattered only to be soon resurrected through his sheer will (just not fully because of the damn shard Ms Dark stole).
I do think that Snow having both male and female cubs is thanks to Bigby being a wolf.
Winter can kill Rose, and it would skip.
Dark didn't kill the real Frau though, he killed a magical copy of her...
I remember now! I forgot about Colin talking to Snow in her dreams :P
??? How was this the case? Are you sure? Where did you get that info?
Because Ozma discusses the whole ordeal with Frau afterwards
Read the issue again, dude.
If Winter kills Rose, the power flows to Snow. Simple like this. And if the family line curse is still on when Snow gets into menopause, the female cubs then start killing each other... Winter likely winning and having more children to continue this madness.
I think so too. She was able to fight the god and survived. I think it would be anti-climatic if Cindy killed her BUT remember that during fight with Bigby Frau lost half her powers so now it's really hard to predict. And we still don't know what side she is onn.
Unless they find a way to stop the madness from continuing...
If Snow and Rose do not fight then the cycle is broken, they both survive but have to stay as far away from each other as possible...
Good point. I almost forgot about that epic moment and her face "Judgement... gone! Half my powers gone just like that?"
Still half her power is an insane amount and her intel and resourcefulness is her greatest strength. Cindy would have to ally herself with Mazzy (the cat witch), who's also in Snow's side, to have any hope of surprising Frau.
Good point. I almost forgot about that epic moment and her face "Judgement... gone! Half my powers gone just like that?"
Still half her power is an insane amount and her intel and resourcefulness is her greatest strength. Cindy would have to ally herself with Mazzy (the cat witch), who's also in Snow's side, to have any hope of surprising Frau.
That never worked before and never will because the Fates will keep working towards having the "tradition" fulfilled. Note how easily Hope is manipulating Rose into feeding in her feelings against Snow and instincts of survival.
Unless the Fates are dealt with... They can be replaced!
Ambrose (Who is fated to judge the rest) and Lake (an agent of the Fates as she assigns them) they could become the new Fates?
I remember the moment, but not the exact words... I need to reread it again, but I really don't remember nothing implying it was a copy. She did give in when she noticed she couldn't beat him, and "faked her death" someway. I remember as if it was more of a "lizard's tail" thing: she left behind a "part" of her for him to feast on as she retreated and regained her form somewhere safe.
Actually I think that is what happened :P
So she exhausts most of her power fighting Dark, she gives up a bit more to escape him, and Spratt took away half of her remaining power by destroying Judgement...
Cindy may have a chance if she has help from another Witch
Mazzy.
Even if they replace the Fates they would feel like protecting the "destinies" of people more than their own family I believe.
It's Maddy the Cat.
I would've said Morgan Le Fay as they point out her speciality is combat spells, plus she was selected for the Super Team!
Morgan sided with Rose like Frau.
Rose dismissed Morgan for Frau...
Besides the 13th Floor is it's own group atm, Maddy has sided with Snow, Frau has sided with Rose, but Rose dismissed Morgan so maybe she will change sides because of that
Don't remember it, but if that's the case, damn Rose is stupid.
Actually they would do anything for their family.
If I learned anything from Fables is that playing your part tramples everything. Few things can break it... true love being the only I can name. And family love is hardly ever true love.
It doesn't trample everything. Gaining favor is another that can change things, which is what we are talking about.