How many of you are still watching this show after 506 ending?
Was watching the news and apparently this HBO series was one of it's topics. It was about what happened during the last minutes of 506. Many fans and feminist's thought HBO went to far and threatened not to watch it because of it.
I'm still on season 1, but this topic made me curious to understand what the scene was. I searched for it and wow it was crazy, but not as horrible as they're making it.
Sometimes I don't understand people. They had an backlash for this episode, but will give praise to Fifty Shades of Grey which has Mr. Grey abusing Anna. Even though it was consensual I feel that people should have got angered about that too.
So yes. What are your thoughts on conspiracy episode 506? Did HBO go too far? Will you continue watching the show?
Comments
There have been worse scenes in the series, there will be worse still.
This whole debate is stupid and pointless. I didn't see anything about Ramsay letting his dogs rip someone apart.
The feminist's are mostly upset and yes I agree. There probably will be worse scenes. They're upset because HBO ruined a great character. They had her innocence taken away and her strength will be tested. She traumatized now.
Who gives a damn what feminist want? They already dictate what people play, now they want to dictate what people watch?
They can go to hell, and if they dont like the show then they can stop watching any time.
True lol.
And how is that ruining her character? Theon had his penis cut off. Imagine the outcry it would create if Ramsay performed FGM on Sansa?
FGM?
Female Genital Mutilation
Damn...
I'm still watching. I see a main complaint about what happened was it was used only for shock factor and not for any meaningful character development, but we won't actually know that until we see how this event affects Sansa and other characters in future episodes.
I'm still watching I love Game of Thrones, I feel like people are over reacting the thing is you're not susposed to like it, it's meant to make you feel bad for one characters situation and hate the other. Besides it's not the first rape scene in GOT there were a couple in season 1 and one in season 4 you're not meant to like it.
I'm still watching but I think their points are valid to them. I know if a show I liked became unwatchable to me for whatever reason I would be unhappy too.
...sorry, the problem isn't that rape was depicted onscreen, the problem is that Sansa was supposed to start developing her character this season so she wouldn't be a victim anymore (as evidenced by the oh-so-subtle change in appearance). But then they turn around and put her in this horrible situation which is totally counter-intuitive to the story they seemed to be going for, and as a result they've just made her a victim again. The entire plotline is like a giant middle finger to fans of the character. It's worse cos they did this before with Jaime and Cersei, which fucked up Jaime's character development in a big way too.
Just because people don't want to see a character they like getting raped in an unnecessary way, it does not mean there is some feminist conspiracy at work. Go back to 4chan with that crap.
That said I'm still watching the show, even though it's gotten a fair bit worse recently.
Tumblr loves a good argument. They all threaten not to watch, but you know full well they'll stay and keep watching.
It was way, way, WAY worse in the books, apparently they don't like that the focus was on Theon... but do you really want the camera to pan around and see Ramsay defile Sansa?
This debate is stupid and that's all there is to say on that. And I hate to bring that up but Daenerys was raped on screen.
Also I wouldn't talk about those people as feminists. Complaining about a rape scene in a Tv show has nothing to do with feminism as long as it isn't presented as erotic or anything. There might be feminists among those people, but they're not complaining as feminists, rather as narrow-minded, very sensitive or very bored people.
I'm waiting for Anita Sarkeesian to tweet about how disgusted she was by the episode.
Dany was raped. Cersei was raped. Theon was castrated and mutilated to the point that he isn't even Theon anymore. Ned Stark had his head cut off. Oberyn's head exploded. Melisandre burned people alive. Catelyn's neck was cut to the bone. Robb was killed and his head removed and replaced with Grey Winds for crying out loud. Worst things have happened.
I don't get why it's such a big deal that Sansa was raped. Does it make her any less of a "strong" character? Hell no. Does it impede her development? How can you know until you see the next episode? What does her rape do for the story? We don't know yet. People love to judge things before thinking it through.
The only people "stopping" are people who never watched the show
Personally I thought the scene was well done, not pleasant to watch but they could have made it way worse, if sansa and the winterfell storylines have merged then this is the best way they could have done it.
So Sansa should be bubble wrapped the rest of the story and nothing bad should ever happen to her and she should be able to manipulate everyone with super Dark Sansa powers? The character development shouldn't be too linear, I'm glad there are step backs in it.
This happens everywhere, not just tumblr, kitten.
People saying they'd stop playing the walking dead if kenny died for example.
I jumped ship in the middle of season 4. I just don't have the energy. I'm fine with reading the forums about the episodes, but I just don't have the drive anymore to sit down and watch between 50-60 minutes of the show.
You could make the exact same argument about Ned Stark: Ned Stark was supposed to tell his friend Robert Baratheon that these children aren't his and reveal this truth to everyone, so Baratheon&Stark could fight the Lannisters and rule together over Westeros (as evidenced by how evil the Lannisters have been portrayed and the strong friendship between Ned & Robert). But then they turn around and put him in this horrible situation which ist totally counter-intuitive to the story they seemed to be going for, and as a result they've made him a victim. The entire plotline is like a giant middle finger to fans of the character.
Or with Oberyn. Oberyn was supposed to take vengeance for the murder of his sister Elia Martell and finally make them pay for their evil deeds. But then...
You see, this argument is leading nowhere. I too feel the show has gotten worse recently, but going against viewer wish fulfilment now and then is just a GoT thing.
Of course im still watching the show. Ive seen much worse and read much much worse thanks to the books. My heart breaks for Sansa but i feel like people are going overboard, as they tend to do when the show does something especially disturbing. People dont like to feel bad and they get angry and threaten to quit, but look at the ratings. I doubt many people who threaten to quit actually do it.
Being raped doesnt make you ruined.
Thank you. People expect too much. Sansas character has been developing subtly but people expect her to be a completely different person over night. What if Arya suddenly started wearing frilly dresses and talking about marrying handsome princes? Its going to take time for Sansa to get to that place and we havent seen the whole season play out yet.
This is my issue with the whole thing - Much like the bring beth back petition crap, People are not really upset about the act or anything their upset that the story didnt go the way they wanted.
I know, would it have been better if we were watching the actual rape? Id rather see Theons face eventhough that was heartbreaking in itself.
As a victim myself, I think people are making too much of a big deal out of this.
It's a vile thing, but it exists, and if some shows need to use it for their plot, so be it. Shows shouldn't have to pretend it doesn't exist. There's a point when too much sheltering becomes annoying.
You've kiiinda made yourself a strawman argument there. I don't approve of the Dark Sansa thing. I just made fun of it in the previous post. It's way too on-the-nose and blatant in its execution. In the books she doesn't immediately become invincible either. However, in that position she's not spending yet another book as a traumatized victim, which is what is happening here.
Aren't you sick of the "Sansa is everyone's punching bag" routine, which has been the standard for four years now? Don't you want to see her become something, anything more than that?
Both of those examples were important turning points in the plot. This was fucking pointless and just another excuse to generate controversy around GoT. They're going to forget about it in the very next episode, just like the Jaime/Cersei rape.
It's a middle finger to Sansa fans because she's safe and happy in the books, which is nice to see. In the show she's just been made to suffer even moreso than before, which is getting tired. What Sansa put up with in King's Landing was already "going against viewer wish fulfillment." Putting her in an unnecessary situation like this, when there's a better alternative that's better for her character, is poorly-thought out writing.
I still watch the show and enjoy it for what it is, but there are certain beats that I find bothersome and upsetting, and this is one of them. It's not only disturbing, but in my opinion kind of lazy and completely unnecessary to put Sansa through this after the growth she had.
I can find issue with an aspect of a piece of entertainment and still consume it and process it intellectually, but I understand people have different thresholds for certain topics (especially dealing with something so delicate as sexual assault).
This show has pulled some frustrating stuff over the years when they divert from the original continuity of the books, and this is one of the more glaring ones for me. It did nothing dramatically and just upset a lot of people. I wish they could go back and edit it to not play out in such a way, but that doesn't really happen with TV shows.
All that said, I still find value in the series and look forward to new episodes every week. This just bummed me out, and I hope the show can move on from this unpleasant moment.
Sorry, missed that, but anyway you do think she should be absolutely safe of all harm the rest of the story, yes? Because she already suffered in King's Landing?
Sansa is Littlefinger's pawn atm in the books. And her storyline at the Vale is actually pretty much just beginning so we don't really know what kind of role will she play in the Winds of Winter.
I personally think her story this season has been much more than just being traumatized victim. She has been stronger than she used to be, but she is still young and hasn't turned into supermanipulationmachine in one night so of course bad things can still happen to her - now we'll see how she deals with this.
I think it is important part of Sansa's character that she is used as a pawn "key to the North" etc. and it's intriguing to see her grow out of that to independent woman and perhaps a player of this "game". However I don't want that to happen in one night. We have seen her maturing up slowly, and I think that's how it should be so it's realistic (as much as I liked the sample chapter of Sansa from TWOW it did kinda feel like Sansa had suddenly aged up five years in couple of weeks). We have still two seasons to go, and she still has time to develop to whatever she will be at the end.
Do you think it would have been better if there were some kind of "trigger" warning at the beginning?
Why is it lazy? Sansa doesnt want to have sex with Ramsay but she knew she was going to have to endure it no matter what. Ramsay just chose to be extra violent and cruel because he's a psycho. Is it because it was so brutal?
Honestly, the right move narratively speaking would've been for her to own the situation she was in, showing that grasp of 'The Game' that she's so clearly shown from her training with Peter. Rather than continue to have her victimized, they should've had her start being assertive towards Ramsay and manipulating him Baelish style so that she's in control (he clearly shows a penchant for being directed by the right person ie his dad).
What this did was undermine the inner strength and cunning she's shown, even within the episode. It puts her back into a place of powerlessness, which makes zero sense for her at this place in the story, and just hammers home the 'Ramsay is a psycho' point for the millionth time.
What they did was combine the arc of another character from the books in with her, which just ruins what they were doing with Sansa up to this point, and that's a bummer.
I dont think it undermined her strength at all. She has the strength of a survivor and being victimized diesnt change that. Ramsay listens to his dad (sometimes) because he has something Ramsay wants, to be heir to his fortune, estate whatever. Why on earth would he listen to Sansa? He is deranged. I dont believe that she would be successful at teying to manipulate him. He might make her believe she is, then cut one of her fingers off later.
I honestly think people make too much of her "training" by Littlefinger. He showed her what a manipulative, lying schemer he is, told her "be like me" then abandoned her. I dont think that was nearly enough to turn her into a female Baelish.
He desperately wants to get the approval of those who deny it to him, and she could absolutely play that to her advantage.
I think the issue is that for the past 5 seasons, things have just 'happened' to her. She's had little agency, and Baelish presented to her this option of 'play or be played', which she seemed all too eager to adapt to.
Putting her back into a place of powerlessness, given the scenes in which she has shown remarkable savvy, feels like a step back for her, and upsetting as a viewer who has grown to sympathize and root for her.
Bad things can still happen to her, I can accept that (it's Game of Thrones afterall), but we need to see her continued growth as someone truly capable of being a viable candidate for the Iron Throne, and that savvy will be her biggest asset in that claim. They need to develop that growth further, and this scene feels counter intuitive to that.
??? No. Why do you keep saying that? I never said it. I just said I'm sick of the "Sansa is a punching bag" plot. Doesn't mean she should be invincible. Do you think she should be invincible? It'd explain why you keep saying it.
They jumped her forward out of it with that "Dark Sansa" bollocks to stop her "haters" from complaining, then continued to put her through the exact same plot again only this time at Winterfell. If you actually like seeing characters go through the exact same arc again and again, that's good for you, but I'd appreciate it if you and D&D could keep it out of GoT, please.
You have a funny definition of independent. You seem to be arguing that the rape scene was justified because it showed that she hasn't fully matured as a character, cos that's realistic, and then you point out that her going through a much less repititious development while in the Vale is not realistic?
As I said in another post, there should be step backs in character development. And as you mentioned we have seen her develop this season, a moment of weakness does not take that away.
I think it's just made worse by the way in which they executed the scene, and the fact that it was the last scene in the episode.
It's going to be an excruciating week until the next episode, and here's hoping she comes back from this swinging.
I cannot wait for Stannis to show up and whip the everloving crap out of the Boltons. :S
Well you prefer she should have a storyline where she is "safe and happy", right? And I already answered to how she "should be" imo so read again if you didn't understand.
Sigh I feel like I have to repeat myself, but as I have said before I DO want her character to develop and I think she is developing, just in a more dangerous place than in the books (or do we even know? she might have to go through a lot of shit in the Vale too.) Clearly you just have decide that nope, she has problems = she isn't developing.
And in which way is my definition of independent funny? Have I made some kind of definition of it in the first place? I have said that she is growing to be independent not that she is independent now - she isn't independent now in the books either so what's the problem with that?
Yes I think that it's realistic that Sansa might have a weak moment dealing with psychopath like Ramsay. And actually no matter how mature I don't think there would have been a way out of there - She could have only made it worse for herself so she did what she had to do (or rather let Ramsay do to her). That is pretty much actually what the writer Bryan Cogman said about the scene.
I wont judge the Vale storyline not being realistic because I haven't had the pleasure to read it yet since we have only had one sample chapter of it. However I do think the way Sansa matured so quickly between AFFC chapters and the sample chapter was a little weird. That of course doesn't mean that the storyline will be bad.