Theory on Maester Ortengryn
In episode 1, Duncan mentions his distrust of the Maester. In episode 2 (if not 3), it Is revealed that there is a traitor in House Forrester. In episode 4, Lord Whitehill's son (totally forgot his name) beats the Maester. Gwyn mentions that one of her brothers is at the Citadel and another serves Roose Bolton. She also says that her elder brothers were not kind to the fourthborn. This could be why the fourthbon was so mad at the Maester- what if the Maester is actually a son to Lord Whitehill and is the traitor to House Forrester? What are your ideas and thoughts on this theory?
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I don't think he's their son, but I do think he's the traitor
Gryff beat him up because he doesn't know any better, he's really just a boastful idiot trying to prove something..Ludd didn't tell him all the details,as we've found out with Mira, Ludd's very careful about his secrets. He's a fourthborn and everyone in his own family think he's gullible, and Gwyn did tell you that her father only sent him to Ironrath because he knew his son's nature and that he would cause trouble, hopefully giving reason to strike the Forresters down if we lose our temper.
We've been consistently told that Gryff is just a pawn even by his own family, I think Telltale is trying to tell us something there. He beat up their own informant out of ignorance.
Yea, Ludd had mentioned that he doesn't even care about his fourthborn son, which had me thinking that he cares more about the son that plays the role as Forrester's Maester. My theory could be a bit out of left field but it came to me when I was playing late last night
You can call Ludd's bluff out that he doesn't care about Gryff if you'd talked with Gwyn before , at the painting.
"A Whitehill is still a Whitehill... You do care about Gryff"
"You're right...Rodrik."
Oh, I didn't know about that option. Still, I do believe the Maester is a Whitehill. I think it will be a great plot twist,
I dunno, that would mean the Codex is just straight up lying to us, which would be odd, since it's been pretty trustworthy so far...
I was thinking that maybe it only says what the characters know. For example, the codex changes from Squire to Ranger for Gared, so for the Maester, it could have a false history because that's what Maester has told the other Forresters.
I don't think Gryff even knows that Ludd has a spy in Ironrath.
I was thinking that, too. Maybe Ortengryn met/befriended the Whitehill son at the Citadel and that's how he ended up working for Ludd. Otherwise, being from the Vale, he doesn't have any connection with Highpoint at all.
Now that you mention it, that makes sense and I can see it happening.
Then why would Gryff randomly beat the Maester? I recall Gryff yelling at him something like "YOU LET THE BITE FESTER!" Obviously, as far as we know, the Maester never worked on Gryff while he was in our House. So, I believe that this "bite" that Gryff is yelling about happened before because they do know each other.
This theory is exactly where my mind is heading. I'm casting my vote for the traitor as the Maester.
I'm trying to piece the Whitehill family together. Gwyn has four brothers: Gryff and then 3 others. I'm thinking Otengryn is one of them. And this could be a stretch, but I've seen others posting this and I agree that Otengryn and Morgryn look very similar, so perhaps he's another one of the brothers. As for Morgryn being "forced out" of the Ironwood business, it might just be a ruse to confuse/manipulate Mira? Ah, who knows. Episode 5 please.
Ortengryn doesn't look or sound anything like the other Whitehills we've encountered at this point, and he doesn't even look like any of the kids in the picture, so it's highly unlikely.
OOOHHHHHH With the Otengryn and Morgryn looking similar, that's exactly what my mother said lol. But one question is why is he called LORD Morgryn if that would be his father's title? And wouldn't that mean that Morgryn serves Roose Bolton because Gwyn had said the one brother died, one went to the citadel, and another serves the Boltons? Morgryn and Otengryn being brothers could work although that would mean Ludd trusts Andros over his own son when it comes to the ironwood business. It's a good theory if it all can be explained.
The bite is in reference to the Bannerman Talia bit in Episode 3.
The Maester may not look like any other Whitehills CURRENTLY, but in the family portrait, the Maester does, in my opinion, look like the younger Whitehills. Not to mention that Gwyn looked alarmed when our attention was brought to the portrait. This is why I think that the Maester is a Whitehill.
Oh, ok. I get it now. Well, there goes that point to my theory.
I don't think Gwyn had any problem with Rodrik looking at the portrait. In fact, she asked the guard to give them a minute so she could introduce Rod to the full family. If she were hiding Ortengryn's identity she would've been more careful.
If you talk to Gwyn at the painting, she will tell you about her brothers, and the one who went to the citadel, I can't remember his name right now, but it was something like Allister, not Ortengryn. Also, the brother serving Roose Bolton was implied to be a soldier, so it is unlikely that he would be Lord Morgryn.
Morgryn is called "Lord" as a courtesy, like Varys is called Lord Varys, because he is on the small council. Morgryn and Andros are high class merchants, so they are called Lords out of respect, not necessarily because they come from noble families, and even younger sons of Lords can be addressed as Lord out of respect, and especially by someone lower than them.
Edit: Also, Morgryn is his surname, if you eavesdrop on the group he is speaking to at Tommen's coronation, one of them calls him Rickard, which is a Northern name, but since Morgryn is his last name, unless he is lying to Mira, Andros, and everyone else, it is highly unlikely that he is a Whitehill son. He could be working for the Whitehills still, but I doubt he is one of Ludd's sons.
Well, the guard at least seemed on edge when we near the portrait, as he says, "M-my lady?" To me, that is suspicious. Gwyn has always been willing to help, though. Perhaps, she was purposefully dropping hints? I know that is a bit of a stretch, especially because when we ask her if she knows who the traitor is, she claims she doesn't know.
It ain't a plot twist. It's a contradiction of already established narrative.
Maester Ortengryn is a Valeman. He spent his childhood dreaming to be the maester of the Eyrie, but is OK with being the maester of Ironrath. We first learn this from the TTG website about the characters.
Besides, the maesters are assigned castles to counsel in from the Citadel. Unless Lord Whitehill has connections there AND Ortengryn is somehow gifted enough to hide his Northern accent for 10+ years, remain neutral in all things Whitehill/Forrester for 10+ years, never ever pray in a godswood, convince a family in the Vale to pretend that he is one of theirs, and all of this just so that he gets beat up by his hotheaded younger brother who is somehow hotheaded enough to beat him up for all the years of bullying, but not hotheaded enough to mention the actual reason to anyone else in Ironrath (including the Whitehill garrison). This theory really stretches any amount of credulity.
What's more likely is that he could be a Whitehill sympathizer. The Whitehills converted to the Faith of the Seven a long time ago while the Forresters are still on the old gods. Ortengryn might be a zealous man trying to root out people that worship demon trees.
Or perhaps the Citadel has some scheme about the balance of power concerning ironwood. Ironwood is a very valuable resource and I'm sure the Citadel knows this.
Or, perhaps he's working to make peace and he believes the best way to do that is by giving more power to the Whitehills.
There are a million different ways to make Ortengryn the traitor besides, "TellTale has literally been lying to us since before the game was even released and Ortengryn is actually one of Lord Whitehill's sons." So far, Telltale has never done a twist by straight up lying to the audience before revealing the truth.
Kenny was marked as lost.
The girl said her name was Faith. TellTale put up codex entries, but none of them were definite on who Bigby met that night.
Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People was purchased by unattractive people as well as attractive people.
That could be the backstory that Ortengryn invented.
Telltale has changed their minds about these things before. Lily was originally this character from the comics:
http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly_Caul
But then Telltale changed it:
The only reason Telltale changed it is because the creator of the comics gave Lilly a different backstory. It was beyond their control, they didn't just "change their minds".
Well what about Faith from the Wolf Among Us? We all believed her and her backstory to be one thing but there was ALOT more going on than we originally thought. The same can be possible for the Maester. Plus, I just checked the final trophy for ep 5 and it is called "Grand Maester." Perhaps, this hints to him being the traitor and something more?
The Faith/Nerissa plot seemed to be already established with subtle hints placed throughout the game and vague information revolving the both of them. The Maester has a definitive backstory, and it's much harder to conceal his identity in the Game of Thrones universe than The Wolf Among Us universe, where magic spells are easily obtained and can change appearance.
As for the achievements, that's how it's been for all final trophies for far, moving up the ranks of a house and not necessarily equating to anything in the story. I believe the last achievement in Episode 4 was "Castellan" but not much Castellan-related things happened.
About the achievements thing, didn't know that. The Maester may seem to have a definitive backstory but he never mentions any of it on screen and he is rarely ever around during the important events, such as when Ethan is killed (Duncan's/Royland's absence is explained). But would Gwyn's explanation of her brothers not count as a subtle hint? Because in my opinion it is.
Well, the maester being the son of Ludd is to easy. Gryff would know his brother and would not mistreat him. But our maester and Ludd's son could have met at the citadell and became friends maybe.
The Maester's absense is suspicious. While I don't personally believe he is the traitor, I'm not ruling that possibility out.
As for Gwyn's explaination, I assumed it was just an excuse to get the brother out of the picture. They had to remove the three brothers from the story somehow,and one dying, one at the Citadel, one serving the Boltons are all pretty good reasons they aren't present. He has a different name too (I know a name is easy to change, but he's still pretty high-profile as a son of a noble house, so it can't be that easy to change identity).
Ortengryn's backstory isn't mentioned in-game, but his accent is different from the Northerners. And as others have pointed out, the Codex would have been straight lying to us. At least with Faith and Nerissa, they did have a clear backstory before whatever happened to them happened, so the Fable Entries wouldn't have been a lie.
If my original theory is wrong, I would put my money on this.
Not necessarily. By that picture Gryff's brothers were quite older than him, so maybe one of them left when he was very young?
Still, the Maester would have to be a master manipulator to fake an origin story and accent and stay hidden for 10 years.
The maester didn't even attend a funeral
They have already changed the details in the codex once after episode one. Not just additions of new details either.
When the game first came out Lady Forrester was forced by King Robert to marry Gregor Forrester after the Rebellion. Whereas now, the codex says that they were married before the Rebellion.
So there have definitely been instances where they have changed their minds about the details.
Personally, i think that the Idea that Ludd Whitehill has been planning something for this long, had his son train to be a Maester just to infiltrate his enemy's house and spy on them, and has just been waiting patiently for an opportunity to arise where he could get the upper hand - makes him a way better villian and much more interesting. Also, given Gwynn's reaction when you first look at the Whitehill family portrait, i have no issues with the possibility of Maester Ortengryn being a hidden Whitehill. It's not that hard to hide who you really are in the citadel apparently - just ask Sarella Sand!
And as for why didn't Gryph recognize his own brother? Gwynn gives us the answer for that too. If he left for the Citadel while Gryph was still young, he probably would not recognize him. Especially if Ludd has maintained the illusion that Ebbert (or whatever his name was) is still at the citadel - even with his loudmouthed, boastful, irrationally angry son.
I always kinda thought that the Maester looked like a Whitehill.....
Not to mention that in ep 1, he tries to get info out of you about Gregor Forrester.
I also found it odd that he never seems stressed about what's happening to House Forrester like the rest of the small council.
Yes, this too. I've been suspicious of him since the begining
To me I don't feel like it's the Maester but I do think he's a Whitehill and teaming with Gywn. When Duncan said about how he distrusts the Maester, I think he was trying to pin it on the Maester to move suspicion off of him.
Well Duncan only mentions his distrust of the Maester when you tell Ortengryn about the North Grove. At that point, Duncan has nothing to prove to Gared about not being the traitor because no one knew of one. Plus, I think he wouldn't bother to try to throw us off his scent if he was planning to send Gared to the wall. Duncan was Gregor's right hand man. This is why I think we could believe him and his distrust of the Maester.
To be fair, one of the kids at the tapestry kind of looks like a kid version of the Maester;
Mostly it's the ears...
Maybe Lady Whitehill was a FLorent and passed down the Florent ears to him
Yea, that's the one I thought looked like the Maester. Coincidence? I think not.
Maester can't be Ludd's son, the Codex clearly says that he is from the Vale.