I'm starting a new series where I give my opinion on what changes need to occur so that the walking dead season 3 will better improve on the walking dead season 2. In this video I focus on determinant characters.
To add my own thoughts onto the discussion, I think that there's a simple and easy solution to make determinant characters have more of an impact: substitute dialogue and actions from other characters. Imagine if Nick, if alive, would actively partake in the discussion of the escape plan and other various scenes throughout episode 3, or that he would save your life during the actual escape. They're small, simple gestures, but they would add to his character to have him actually doing something in the player's favor, as well as staying true to his character (he's one of the most outspoken members of the cabin group in the first two episodes. He's present in nearly every argument and discussion, so having him suddenly go mute for episode 3 ends up feeling very awkward)
Look at Carley in episode 2. If you saved her, when you're attacked by David/Travis, she'll come over and shoot the zombie. If Doug was saved, either Mark or Larry saves you instead. It's a small detail, but it makes all the difference having Carley in particular be the one to save you in that moment.
Another example would be over in Telltale's Game of Thrones game. To avoid spoilers, there's a character in the fourth episode that can tag along with you, or you can leave him behind. Choosing to bring him along results in a scene where he actually saves your life later on. If he's not there, you just get a few additional QTEs and get out of the situation yourself. Sure, the same end is achieved, but having a character that doesn't need to be there do something that affects the player personally is a large step in making the character feel like they belong, or that they still fulfill a purpose to both the player and the story going forward. That's what counts.
The other thing is that it feels like in Season 2, they wrote the story as if the characters were dead/not there, rather than if they were alive. In a situation like this, it's easier to cut something down to size, than it is to build something up. Look at a character like Ben in S1. Ben felt like he belonged in episode 5, it felt like he served a purpose there, and in playthroughs where he's gone, there's definitely a noticeable gap, a small void where he should be. Nick, on the other hand, almost feels like he was an after-thought in episode 3, and the few scenes where he speaks up (save for one or two scenes which were handled pretty well) feels like they're tacked on, simply there to remind the player that he's still alive. It goes back to the whole cutting down vs. building up. With Ben, it feels like they wrote episode 5 with him being alive in mind, then had to figure out how to make each individual scene work without him being there for the playthroughs where he died. With Nick, they did the opposite: they wrote the episode as if he was dead, then had to figure out a way to fit him into a narrative that wasn't written with him in mind.
I think the stats also suggest how they dug themselves a hole here: for Ben, only 33% or so dropped him, so they needed to find a workaround for the minority. With Nick, a vast majority saved him, so they had to figure out a workaround for roughly 85% of the players. It's like they expected most people would get Nick killed, but when a majority actually saved him, their whole plan kind of backfired on them.
To use more metaphors: Ben feels like a puzzle piece. When he's in episode 5, it feels like the puzzle is complete. When he's not, there's a noticeable spot where he is supposed to be. Nick feels like a duplicate puzzle piece. The puzzle is already complete without him, so removing him doesn't make a significant difference, but keeping him in the scene just feels out of place and unnatural.
I couldn't said it better myself. That right there is some great analyses of the situation. You're right, with Ben it felt out of place for him to not be there (I never dropped him myself but I've seen at least one video of him not being there) while with Nick it feels nearly the opposite. (Once again never let Nick die but I have seen at least one video where he does die.) He didn't even get a decent death scene like Alvin.
You're right they could have had him maybe die saving Clementine in the midst of the herd, and if he didn't survive then we could have had a series of QTE's to get ourselves out of there. I completely agree with you on this one.
Thank you for watching the video and your lovely comment.
To add my own thoughts onto the discussion, I think that there's a simple and easy solution to make determinant characters have more of an i… morempact: substitute dialogue and actions from other characters. Imagine if Nick, if alive, would actively partake in the discussion of the escape plan and other various scenes throughout episode 3, or that he would save your life during the actual escape. They're small, simple gestures, but they would add to his character to have him actually doing something in the player's favor, as well as staying true to his character (he's one of the most outspoken members of the cabin group in the first two episodes. He's present in nearly every argument and discussion, so having him suddenly go mute for episode 3 ends up feeling very awkward)
Look at Carley in episode 2. If you saved her, when you're attacked by David/Travis, she'll come over and shoot the zombie. If Doug was saved, either Mark or Larry saves you i… [view original content]
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To add my own thoughts onto the discussion, I think that there's a simple and easy solution to make determinant characters have more of an impact: substitute dialogue and actions from other characters. Imagine if Nick, if alive, would actively partake in the discussion of the escape plan and other various scenes throughout episode 3, or that he would save your life during the actual escape. They're small, simple gestures, but they would add to his character to have him actually doing something in the player's favor, as well as staying true to his character (he's one of the most outspoken members of the cabin group in the first two episodes. He's present in nearly every argument and discussion, so having him suddenly go mute for episode 3 ends up feeling very awkward)
Look at Carley in episode 2. If you saved her, when you're attacked by David/Travis, she'll come over and shoot the zombie. If Doug was saved, either Mark or Larry saves you instead. It's a small detail, but it makes all the difference having Carley in particular be the one to save you in that moment.
Another example would be over in Telltale's Game of Thrones game. To avoid spoilers, there's a character in the fourth episode that can tag along with you, or you can leave him behind. Choosing to bring him along results in a scene where he actually saves your life later on. If he's not there, you just get a few additional QTEs and get out of the situation yourself. Sure, the same end is achieved, but having a character that doesn't need to be there do something that affects the player personally is a large step in making the character feel like they belong, or that they still fulfill a purpose to both the player and the story going forward. That's what counts.
The other thing is that it feels like in Season 2, they wrote the story as if the characters were dead/not there, rather than if they were alive. In a situation like this, it's easier to cut something down to size, than it is to build something up. Look at a character like Ben in S1. Ben felt like he belonged in episode 5, it felt like he served a purpose there, and in playthroughs where he's gone, there's definitely a noticeable gap, a small void where he should be. Nick, on the other hand, almost feels like he was an after-thought in episode 3, and the few scenes where he speaks up (save for one or two scenes which were handled pretty well) feels like they're tacked on, simply there to remind the player that he's still alive. It goes back to the whole cutting down vs. building up. With Ben, it feels like they wrote episode 5 with him being alive in mind, then had to figure out how to make each individual scene work without him being there for the playthroughs where he died. With Nick, they did the opposite: they wrote the episode as if he was dead, then had to figure out a way to fit him into a narrative that wasn't written with him in mind.
I think the stats also suggest how they dug themselves a hole here: for Ben, only 33% or so dropped him, so they needed to find a workaround for the minority. With Nick, a vast majority saved him, so they had to figure out a workaround for roughly 85% of the players. It's like they expected most people would get Nick killed, but when a majority actually saved him, their whole plan kind of backfired on them.
To use more metaphors: Ben feels like a puzzle piece. When he's in episode 5, it feels like the puzzle is complete. When he's not, there's a noticeable spot where he is supposed to be. Nick feels like a duplicate puzzle piece. The puzzle is already complete without him, so removing him doesn't make a significant difference, but keeping him in the scene just feels out of place and unnatural.
I couldn't said it better myself. That right there is some great analyses of the situation. You're right, with Ben it felt out of place for him to not be there (I never dropped him myself but I've seen at least one video of him not being there) while with Nick it feels nearly the opposite. (Once again never let Nick die but I have seen at least one video where he does die.) He didn't even get a decent death scene like Alvin.
You're right they could have had him maybe die saving Clementine in the midst of the herd, and if he didn't survive then we could have had a series of QTE's to get ourselves out of there. I completely agree with you on this one.
Thank you for watching the video and your lovely comment.
God bless you.