Am I the only one who likes Grim Fandango and Escape controls?
I think I'd rather have those back than play with the new Tales one!
Please don't hurt me
there is optional mouse support.. telltale made a compromise.. it might not be "point and click" but you can certainly do everything using just the mouse. Personally I don't mind either way but is nice that telltale listened to us and gave us an alternative control method.
costumer: I would like a bread bun to go with my sausage
clerg: I am sorry but we cant work out how to make buns properly, here have a banana.
Costumer: It is great with a company that listens to the costumers, never mind the small vocal minority who are just fuzzy because they have the idea that buns works better for hotdogs, no substitute.
Telltale did a great job with the controls imo. Only one slight criticism-I much prefered the Character-Relative control in Grim Fandango as it seemed more natural. You were given the option of character or camera relative in GF so it would be nice to have had that option tales but as I said, only a slight criticism as I'm sure ill get used to it. loved the game in every other way!
If I took it seriously, I wouldn't have replied with "Oh snap!". Thanks for your concern, though.
If you had the faintest clue, you wouldnt have answred oh snap either. To tell people that their programmers is unable to make a mouse grid on the screen with cells attached to positions in the very static 3d environment (to keep the cool camera angles) is actually the same as saying;: "our programmers was found roaming free in the jungle of Africa". You may not know it yet, but the joke is on you.
If you had the faintest clue, you wouldnt have answred oh snap either. To tell people that their programmers is unable to make a mouse grid on the screen with cells attached to positions in the very static 3d environment (to keep the cool camera angles) is actually the same as saying;: "our programmers was found roaming free in the jungle of Africa". You may not know it yet, but the joke is on you.
Aaaahahaha know I understand the "oh snaps". youre the monkey! Being a chracter that enjoys a hearty laugh, I can't wait to read the wallace and gromit control threads. Don't worry I would be too ashamed for proper conversation aswell if that was my work.
Holy monkey bladders! These people should be banned! Seriously, I'm really starting to think that this place is getting worse than YouTube commenters. In fact, I'm really starting to think that they should implement a law about having to acquire a license to roam free on the internet. The requirements: not being a moron.
Please start a new thread and have at it. I mean, really attack each other good. Get personal and ugly. I'm kind of bored at work this afternoon, and I would really enjoy reading that. Thanks.
Aaaahahaha know I understand the "oh snaps". youre the monkey! Being a chracter that enjoys a hearty laugh, I can't wait to read the wallace and gromit control threads. Don't worry I would be too ashamed for proper conversation aswell if that was my work.
The control scheme is really bad. bad, bad decision. They could not make it fully point and click because of camera angles?. There is a soution for that though. Hire qualified programmers who knows what they are doing.
WOW... so you have to resort to insulting telltale programmers do you? I guess you know nothing about programming so don't mock the people who do.
Please start a new thread and have at it. I mean, really attack each other good. Get personal and ugly. I'm kind of bored at work this afternoon, and I would really enjoy reading that. Thanks.
Nah, it's all good. People are entitled to their opinions.
Aaaahahaha know I understand the "oh snaps". youre the monkey! Being a chracter that enjoys a hearty laugh, I can't wait to read the wallace and gromit control threads. Don't worry I would be too ashamed for proper conversation aswell if that was my work.
You have to take a week off ... they are long, and with long I mean long, reaaaaaaaaallly loooooong...
because morons like you complain about it on every thread
read W&G control thread.
see, there u go again
yeah just because im not happy with the controls im a morron, you just ignore i said the telltale games are great, but if i complain about something its bad, im happy to live in a free world, if im unhappy with something i say it, if im happy about something i say it too ... i dont care, call me what every i want, i will complain each time there is something i dont like
if you would read my threads instead of starting to insult me, you would have noticed that i said i have read the thread ... and dozens of others ... but i still dont understand why they choosed to use such an awfull controls mechanism
Yare you said "We tried several novel control methods and they all felt terribly alien and unintuitive, or were seriously broken in some cases. The linked example would be both."
and you thing that these strange controls we have to fight with in mi are good?
Yare you said "The Xbox controls had no bearing on the PC controls. Point-and-click wasn't an option for this property because it puts restrictions on the way our artists can frame their shots."
LOL ... most of the time i have to turn, moved forward or backward to see something or get the camera right, its almost impossible to catch the right angle with those alien-controls its pain in the ass to get the right frame your artists did for us.
look at ceville for example, the artists have created cool locations, you can walk to where ever you want, everyone can enjoy the landscape and doesnt have to struggle with the camera, why do you try to reinvent the wheel if everyone is happy with the old fashioned point and click style???
Fair's fair, I think they could be better. I keep clicking stuff until I remember to use WASD. And I use WASD because the hula hoop immediately takes me out of the atmosphere.
Your controls are so bad that "you fight like a cow" is no longer an insult.
Honestly though the controls are getting there, the inventory really could do with a few tweaks and it would help if you could click to move in the 99% of situations where you can see the ground and a quick travel map would be handy but things have come a long way since the first W&G demo.
The real problem though is you're getting way overconfident in them. You should really be sticking to confined spaces ala W&G to avoid using the awkward system as much as possible. Instead though you have these large, ungainly areas with all kinds of unnecessary and annoying surface fluff, and multiple navigation puzzles. If you must sacrifice fluidity of control for slightly fancier screenshots you should at least not play to your weaknesses quite so badly.
why do you try to reinvent the wheel if everyone is happy with the old fashioned point and click style???
Here's the short explanation, for everyone who missed it :
For point-and-click to work, the position you're trying to click needs to be visible in screenspace. This means that every shot needs to be framed so that the ground is visible, or you have to add some sort of clickable escape object to the scene to let you get back into a view where you can see the ground. There's no way around these limitations, they are mathematical.
Our designers and artists wanted to be able to use cameras where the ground is not visible. Since we can't really have our designers and artists bugging engineers to add clickable "exit" items every time the ground isn't visible (which I also think would be a horrible design), that puts point-and-click right out. The alternative is a 3d, worldspace cursor for point-and-click (never been done as far as I know), or direct control. Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with.
It's has nothing to do with anything like "Hurr I don't know how to program point and click in 3D." or "Microsoft told us to do it." or "It uses the Wii's control scheme."
first i want to apologize, i dont know really why, but i understand that if you worked very hard during years or months as did telltale games to release a games, and then people are not completly satisfied and start complaining about this or that, it must be hard to stay calm, im sorry if a gave the feeling your game isnt good, its a great one, the best one talltale games did so far (which must be pretty hard cause sam n max, wallace and grommit and that strange spongebob were very cool games) and i honestly hope lucasarts will alow you to do even more monkey island games or to use other of their licenses like maniac mansion.
thx for re-explaining to us why point and click doesnt work if you dont see the ground, but my opinion doesnt change, adventure games are adventure games, perhaps your artists should do an mmo or other kind of role play game if they want that the characters get controlled with the keys, i think adventure games dont need frames where you dont see the ground, especially if it means that to achieve it you need to create "alien-controls" (lol i love this term), as i said before i was really happy about how ceville worked, in ghot pirates they will probably also use point and click aswell as lots of other adventure games we will get to play in the next months. all this games will have cool frames / landscapes, perhaps they have less movement freedom then your games, but thats something i can accept if they controls feel good
nice pic. but if i'm not mistaken, you could rotate the world around your position and zoom in and out in Black and White. Imagine traveling towards the screen. You'd have to click every step or two to keep your character walking. What's more offensive, a Monkey game with direct control and mouse only option, or a Monkey game with RTS camera controls?
The Demo of TFMI has convinced me, that i was right a few weeks ago, wenn i posted here that Telltale will ruin the MI Franchise.
The Controling is a bad joke. Lucasarts killt theire Adventure section with such trys to invent the Tire a second time, and now Telltale does the same, just to Please Microsoft an the xbox360 users. Why Telltale is unable to Programm a individual controllsystem for each system will stay a mystery.
But i Know, i know! PC users are all a bunch of Software Pirates. I have ALL Lucasfilm Games/Lucasarts Adventures Bought the day they were Released, so i have a hugh galerie of original games of that company, and i even played ( Buyed ) Sam and Max Season one, and loved it. but know telltale kills it all.
Sam and max 2 is still not avaible in germany and it was yet announced that the voice actors will be others then in the first season ( a bad dicision ). And chaging the contoles for season 3 will be another cut.
Sorry Telltale, i will not spend my Money for being a slave of the Xbox.
And optional Mouse suport isent that hard to do, even in a 3d andventure ( i Programm one myself for the last 1 1/2 years, so dont tell me ist is not Programmable i and my team done the oureselfs )
You're a joke. MONKEY ISLAND HAS NOT BEEN AROUND FOR NINE YEARS. NINE YEARS!!!!!!!!! AND NOW, WHEN IT FINALLY COMES BACK, ALL YOU SUPPOSEDLY "devoted fans" CAN DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT IT! I'm with the side of the forums that actually cares about the game, which is a great side to be on! Telltale is a great company. They took MI and revived it, bigger and better than before. SO WHAT IF THE CONTROLS ARE A LITTLE WONKY?!!!!! WHO CARES IF IT'S EPISODIC?!!!
Unfortunately that cursor is still constrained to screenspace. To be a true 3D worldspace cursor, you would need to be able to move it beyond the screenspace limits. This would let you (for example) click on ground that was not visible in screenspace.
Here's the short explanation, for everyone who missed it :
For point-and-click to work, the position you're trying to click needs to be visible in screenspace. This means that every shot needs to be framed so that the ground is visible, or you have to add some sort of clickable escape object to the scene to let you get back into a view where you can see the ground. There's no way around these limitations, they are mathematical.
Our designers and artists wanted to be able to use cameras where the ground is not visible. Since we can't really have our designers and artists bugging engineers to add clickable "exit" items every time the ground isn't visible (which I also think would be a horrible design), that puts point-and-click right out. The alternative is a 3d, worldspace cursor for point-and-click (never been done as far as I know), or direct control. Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with.
It's has nothing to do with anything like "Hurr I don't know how to program point and click in 3D." or "Microsoft told us to do it." or "It uses the Wii's control scheme."
But Monkey Island is Monkey Island and not thousands of other games. for pacman direct control is the right choice for sure.
and most of the people payed money to you because its monkey island and they love it, still they can hate the direct control scheme.
its wrooooooong. if pointnclick does not fit into the design, then the design should be changed so it does fit. who cares about camera angles.
no offense, still love the game, nothing can be perfect (except mi1 and mi2 :PPP)
NickTTG: I'm not sure I understand what you think the problem will be. Why do you link the movements of the curser and the camera position to eachother like that?
You're a joke. MONKEY ISLAND HAS NOT BEEN AROUND FOR NINE YEARS. NINE YEARS!!!!!!!!! AND NOW, WHEN IT FINALLY COMES BACK, ALL YOU SUPPOSEDLY "devoted fans" CAN DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT IT! I'm with the side of the forums that actually cares about the game, which is a great side to be on! Telltale is a great company. They took MI and revived it, bigger and better than before. SO WHAT IF THE CONTROLS ARE A LITTLE WONKY?!!!!! WHO CARES IF IT'S EPISODIC?!!!
Comments
Now where have i left my rotten tomatoes?
If I took it seriously, I wouldn't have replied with "Oh snap!". Thanks for your concern, though.
clerg: I am sorry but we cant work out how to make buns properly, here have a banana.
Costumer: It is great with a company that listens to the costumers, never mind the small vocal minority who are just fuzzy because they have the idea that buns works better for hotdogs, no substitute.
If you had the faintest clue, you wouldnt have answred oh snap either. To tell people that their programmers is unable to make a mouse grid on the screen with cells attached to positions in the very static 3d environment (to keep the cool camera angles) is actually the same as saying;: "our programmers was found roaming free in the jungle of Africa". You may not know it yet, but the joke is on you.
Aaaahahaha know I understand the "oh snaps". youre the monkey! Being a chracter that enjoys a hearty laugh, I can't wait to read the wallace and gromit control threads. Don't worry I would be too ashamed for proper conversation aswell if that was my work.
EDIT: Oh, you know what would work better here?
Please start a new thread and have at it. I mean, really attack each other good. Get personal and ugly. I'm kind of bored at work this afternoon, and I would really enjoy reading that. Thanks.
Nah, it's all good. People are entitled to their opinions.
In the beggining it's a bit strange, but you get it in a few minutes. I'm having a lot of fun with the game!
You have to take a week off ... they are long, and with long I mean long, reaaaaaaaaallly loooooong...
He's gone from insulting to genuinely helpful!
so you prefer to loose customers?
your controls are so bad, you have to make forum posts sticky where users try to explain how controls work ... look at the "W&G Control guide" thread
i dont understand, why you dont just add a point and click system and thats it, everyone is happy!
because morons like you complain about it on every thread
read W&G control thread.
see, there u go again
Read the other threads.
Please let this be a new form of The dozens where instead of "your momma's so fat", you do "your controls are so bad" jokes.
yeah just because im not happy with the controls im a morron, you just ignore i said the telltale games are great, but if i complain about something its bad, im happy to live in a free world, if im unhappy with something i say it, if im happy about something i say it too ... i dont care, call me what every i want, i will complain each time there is something i dont like
if you would read my threads instead of starting to insult me, you would have noticed that i said i have read the thread ... and dozens of others ... but i still dont understand why they choosed to use such an awfull controls mechanism
Yare you said "We tried several novel control methods and they all felt terribly alien and unintuitive, or were seriously broken in some cases. The linked example would be both."
and you thing that these strange controls we have to fight with in mi are good?
Yare you said "The Xbox controls had no bearing on the PC controls. Point-and-click wasn't an option for this property because it puts restrictions on the way our artists can frame their shots."
LOL ... most of the time i have to turn, moved forward or backward to see something or get the camera right, its almost impossible to catch the right angle with those alien-controls
look at ceville for example, the artists have created cool locations, you can walk to where ever you want, everyone can enjoy the landscape and doesnt have to struggle with the camera, why do you try to reinvent the wheel if everyone is happy with the old fashioned point and click style???
I'm not fighting with it.
Honestly though the controls are getting there, the inventory really could do with a few tweaks and it would help if you could click to move in the 99% of situations where you can see the ground and a quick travel map would be handy but things have come a long way since the first W&G demo.
The real problem though is you're getting way overconfident in them. You should really be sticking to confined spaces ala W&G to avoid using the awkward system as much as possible. Instead though you have these large, ungainly areas with all kinds of unnecessary and annoying surface fluff, and multiple navigation puzzles. If you must sacrifice fluidity of control for slightly fancier screenshots you should at least not play to your weaknesses quite so badly.
Hey Yare, I got that book and the DX10 version at home if you wanna borrow it.
Here's the short explanation, for everyone who missed it :
For point-and-click to work, the position you're trying to click needs to be visible in screenspace. This means that every shot needs to be framed so that the ground is visible, or you have to add some sort of clickable escape object to the scene to let you get back into a view where you can see the ground. There's no way around these limitations, they are mathematical.
Our designers and artists wanted to be able to use cameras where the ground is not visible. Since we can't really have our designers and artists bugging engineers to add clickable "exit" items every time the ground isn't visible (which I also think would be a horrible design), that puts point-and-click right out. The alternative is a 3d, worldspace cursor for point-and-click (never been done as far as I know), or direct control. Direct control has proven a satisfactory control scheme for thousands of games and millions of gamers, so that's what we went with.
It's has nothing to do with anything like "Hurr I don't know how to program point and click in 3D." or "Microsoft told us to do it." or "It uses the Wii's control scheme."
Oh cool, I would like to begin programming in three Ds.
Way ahead of you, brah.
thx for re-explaining to us why point and click doesnt work if you dont see the ground, but my opinion doesnt change, adventure games are adventure games, perhaps your artists should do an mmo or other kind of role play game if they want that the characters get controlled with the keys, i think adventure games dont need frames where you dont see the ground, especially if it means that to achieve it you need to create "alien-controls" (lol i love this term), as i said before i was really happy about how ceville worked, in ghot pirates they will probably also use point and click aswell as lots of other adventure games we will get to play in the next months. all this games will have cool frames / landscapes, perhaps they have less movement freedom then your games, but thats something i can accept if they controls feel good
nice pic. but if i'm not mistaken, you could rotate the world around your position and zoom in and out in Black and White. Imagine traveling towards the screen. You'd have to click every step or two to keep your character walking. What's more offensive, a Monkey game with direct control and mouse only option, or a Monkey game with RTS camera controls?
You're a joke. MONKEY ISLAND HAS NOT BEEN AROUND FOR NINE YEARS. NINE YEARS!!!!!!!!! AND NOW, WHEN IT FINALLY COMES BACK, ALL YOU SUPPOSEDLY "devoted fans" CAN DO IS COMPLAIN ABOUT IT! I'm with the side of the forums that actually cares about the game, which is a great side to be on! Telltale is a great company. They took MI and revived it, bigger and better than before. SO WHAT IF THE CONTROLS ARE A LITTLE WONKY?!!!!! WHO CARES IF IT'S EPISODIC?!!!
Unfortunately that cursor is still constrained to screenspace. To be a true 3D worldspace cursor, you would need to be able to move it beyond the screenspace limits. This would let you (for example) click on ground that was not visible in screenspace.
But Monkey Island is Monkey Island and not thousands of other games. for pacman direct control is the right choice for sure.
and most of the people payed money to you because its monkey island and they love it, still they can hate the direct control scheme.
its wrooooooong. if pointnclick does not fit into the design, then the design should be changed so it does fit. who cares about camera angles.
no offense, still love the game, nothing can be perfect (except mi1 and mi2 :PPP)
this argument is a joke...