Who actually likes episodic gaming?
I don't, it just seems like a good way to rinse the wallets of 1990's Adventure fans.
So who actually likes episodic gaming? And Why? Please raise your hands so I can shoot you.
So who actually likes episodic gaming? And Why? Please raise your hands so I can shoot you.
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*cringes slightly as he raises his hand*
I love episodic gaming. Instead of getting just one long game, you get multiple ones that stretch out the fun over a period months versus a single weekend for most other games. Not to mention the community that forms around each series as they wait together and share their fun experiences playing them. You get all that for around 35 bucks compared to the solitude of a 60 dollar game.
My first and final thought is that your a toffee-nosed twonk, but i'd like you to prove yourself wrong.
You come to a forum for a site dedicated to episodic gaming and moan at people for liking what the site is dedicated to. What's your fricking problem?
How is it a good way to rinse the wallets of adventure fans? is it more expensive? no. Are you getting less for your money's worth? no.
I like episodic gaming because:
(1)No more waits, we don't have to wait years for what will add up to be 20 or so hours of gameplay.
(2)Having it in small portions works well for alot of us who live busy lives as we can complete it in our own time.
(3)It's nice not to have it all at once and experience a brilliant game over period of 5 months rather than all at once then it's all over.
(4)because this is the best way to bring adventure games to the table without the company going out of buisness because the games aren't selling well.
Couldn't possibly be anyone here, on a forum for fans of a developer that only puts out episodic games... we all despise it and refuse to purchase them. I mean, how could anybody like the fact that, at the end of each "season" of a TT game, we end up with a full length product for almost half the cost of most other games? You'd have to be *insane* to like saving money.
Now allow me to counter your question with another... why would you ask obvious customers of episodic games if they like episodic games? That's like walking up to a person using an iPod and asking if they like music.
Really? You're seriously asking this question here?
Not the reaction you were expecting with this thread huh?
(Were you really expecting a different answer?)
on top of that it brought me half life two episode 1 and 2 (and maybe 3 one day) but the time between them was so long they might as well have not been 'episodic' heh
I don't, it just seems like a good way to rinse the wallets of rile up 1990's Adventure Telltale fans.
So who actually likes episodic gaming trolling? And Why? Please raise your hands so I can shoot you.
sorry
I don't see how anybody can be so bothered over something like this, but you're not the first person to complain.
You're also not the first person who decided it was a bad thing before they actually weighed up the pros and cons. Here, I'll do it for you;
Pros;
- Shorter downloads over an intermittent period mean you need less bandwidth and don't have to wait as long before you start playing.
- Developers have more time to finish the product.
- Players can actually play the game before the developers have finished making it.
- You [usually] don't have to buy the whole thing at once; you can [usually] just buy one episode for a smaller fee and buy the rest as the come along (I don't know why this isn't the case with Monkey Island, I actually have an email from somebody from TTG who said we'd be able to do this).
- You're not [usually] obligated to buy the rest of the season after buying one episode.
- You don't have to play the whole game in one go; the episodic format means you have one contained story that you could finish in an evening (or however long it normally takes).
There's more and I'll add them if you really want me to.Cons;
- Less of a scope available for the setting
- Shorter develompent time per release means less time to polish
- Small downloads bring certain limitations (to give an example, we all know the audio issues with W&G and S&M)
- Even though you're able to wait until the whole season is out, you're very tempted to try the already released episodes earlier, which might take away from the way you prefer to have the experience
I could name more if I thought for a bit more, but the point is that having episodic games isn't all roses. Yes there are pros, but I don't like episodes. I like full length features.
The biggest disappointment of them all was having immense fun playing A Vampyre Story with my girlfriend and all of the sudden hitting the end credits.
Ooh! Me! Me! I do!
When all is said in done, you're actually getting more for less. I just played through Curse of Monkey Island, a game that I LOVE, and it took me about four hours to beat, remembering most (but not nearly all) of the solutions.
I think, if you were to fly through this first episode without pausing at all, it might take an hour and a half (for most it probably takes about 4 hours regularly). That's 7.5 hours for the season (20 hours if you don't know the answers). And for the low price of $34.95...WHICH CAME WITH A FREE GAME!!!
I don't see where the "rinsing" is happening.
Whoops, there goes another rubber tree plant.
First off I'd like to say that some people take forums posts way too seriously :rolleyes: I don't really wanna shoot you all, lol
Actually it's the reaction I was hoping for. I voice this question in an attempt to make Telltale realise that some (even if it's a minority) people would like TellTale to produce a full length game. Just one. Please.
My other reason is to find out what makes you lot tick, and why you want your games to be like this, because:
He's right, but I'm not an idiot, just a bit stuck up. I've also spent the last two years trying to get into this... It hasn't worked.
Ok, sam & max... It's good, very good, don't get me wrong. I love the script, the jokes, the puzzles. Very well done. But for me it's missing a vital ingredient and I'm not sure what it is. But it really bugs me. I blame the episodes.
And as for valve, I really wish they didn't take the idea up for the half life series ><
I like to rant, and it's your job to convince me that episodic gaming is the way forward...
Also... I'm still not convinced, full feature for the win.
And I'm soo tempted to annoy someone before I go out so I leave you with this...
He might be listening to audio books.. you don't know that.
A fair few people joined this community when they took the rights for new S&M games because of the fan base hit the road developed, so I want people to compare, reflect and to share their reasoning. And so that's why I ask.
F1 & Save Perhaps? Ok, it's Esc for the new people but you catch my drift... And yes, please send me more pros.
*Sigh*, troll is such an unimaginative term, but I guess there's always going to be one, at least the editing was creative, lmao. You're excused.
And finally:
Yeah.... I could be mature about it... But it ain't nearly half as fun and I bet this thread has put a smile on at least one persons face ^_^
Thanks everyone, peace out.
I mean think about it... After the first episode is done you've already got the graphics engine, most of the animations for the central characters and the voice actors could have already been taped before the visualisation is gone and the lip synching can be done without any voice actors present. The only audio problem I had with W&G was wallace's voice actor. (I know a lot of people couldn't tell that he wasn’t the original... maybe it's because I'm British that I could tell the difference was distinct, to me, from the beginning). I never had any audio problems with S&M, either, so feel free to enlighten me. Only a problem for those who want to wait or have problems resisting temptation. I was able to wait not only for all of S&M to be complete but I waited months longer to see if it would be available on disk. (It came out a month or 2 after I caved).
With ToMI I chose not to wait, but this was because I didn't see the need and not because I wanted to play them all at once. Maybe, but I'm convinced that TTG's biggest 'nay-sayers' are the kind of people who're determined to find fault with things, especially if the things in question differ with any long standing traditions or things simply old enough for them to be extremely nostalgic for. Well that wasn’t randomly off topic at all. I’m sure this could easily be connected with what you were saying if you want to give it another try. I did ask myself if I could have made myself clearer, on this point. Apparently the answer was 'yes'.
In the episodic format you can reach the end of the game in a shorter amount of time, I'm sure most people can do it in one evening, if you have no plans and few responsibilities. (If, like me, you have small children to take care of as well as a whole family to feed then you're likely to be forced to put gaming and any other self indulgence on hold for a while).
I guess this might not be the case for everybody; but I like stories in my games. (Naturally adventure games need to be story driven and 'plot-centric' more than any other kind, but it's still not important to every player. For me it's paramount). I'm not going to enjoy it nearly as much if that story is prolonged by interruptions... In the same way; I'm not going to enjoy a movie as much if I have to watch it 30 minutes at a time, resuming it from where I left off after being away from the TV for any amount of time. You clearly have a bias, here. Assuming that's not a bad pun (pro = hooker) then just keep watching your thread, I'll be sure to add more when I have a little more time.
However, in terms of downloading, they may be (quite) small but you still have to download 6 of them. Not that downloading is an issue in this day and age. I never had any sound problems with S&M and with tiff and aiff formats sound shouldn't be a problem. This downloading thing does give me an idea, TT could a launcher to unify their games to one place (eg, like steam)
In terms of development time, you'd think with an established engine there'd be plenty of time for polishing, but game scripting still needs to be written and in a short time. So with that some ideas on the table cannot be implemented. I also imagine crunch time to be very harsh, espically with 6 crunch times in a season. And with this programming errors are more likely to occur. But neither you nor I can say how TT does things, it's all speculation.
You mean, rinsing the wallets of 1990's adventure fans by making adventure games? Yeah, those sneaky bastards should really stop doing that.
That's sarcasm, by the way. I forgot which one of these dang smilies that tell you that.
The only thing different than normal adventure games and episodic ones are the release methods. Price and length is still pretty much the same once you put one whole series together.
Yes but you generally end up visiting less venues overall.
One example would be the audio quality point. How about you go back to the Sam & Max and Wallace & Gromit forums and have a look at the amount of people complaining about the audio quality. If you haven't run into this problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Considering that you have over 250 posts already and have been a member for a year and a half, I'm quite sure you've stumbled upon these threads on numerous occasions and don't really need my enlightenment at all, but instead chose to be arrogant. I could be wrong, but I kind of doubt it.
To have some productive information in this post as well as all this negativity, Telltale has actually mentioned a couple of times that they have the next episode in its final stages when a previous one releases. This doesn't mean that there is very little time to polish episodes compared to complete games that get released only once.
1. Lots of waiting, ton's of waiting, monthly waiting. You have to wait between each episode, plus the initial time after announcement.
2. You can't buy the whole thing at once (until it's all released of course), you have no other option but to wait a month for the next one. You cannot play the whole thing at once neither. You are given no choice, but to wait.
3. Episodic games either end too abruptly and/or don't flow smoothly onto the next one. This may be an opinion based con, but sometimes it is very true.
4. Puzzle Items in one episode don't/won't/cannot compliment puzzles/other items from another episode. For example, in "The Dig" you pick up a "Jaw Bone" very early in the game, and it doesn't get used until quite near the end. This is an adventure puzzle technique that just cannot be done in episodes.
5. I'm sitting at a PC, ready to immediately waste time. I'm not sat at a TV, waiting for a timed schedule.
6. Just guessing, but the script is probably made up as they go along (Lost Syndrome, let's hope there is never a writers strike)
7. Storage. Each episode is Stand-alone, meaning for one season you're effectively downloading and storing the same game data 5/6 times over. And in 5/6 different locations.
Some Pros (that I've worked out from other people):
1. Episodes can contain their own individual stories, which cannot be done in full feature... (Sort of, because you can).
2. You can purchase the game in chunks, or just parts of the game, although you don't get the discount.
3. The entire game doesn't have to be complete for you to start playing it.
I thought pro's would be easy to come up with, but some just aren't relevant enough. For example, people say you can take episodes at your own pace. But you can take any game at your own pace via Saving the game.
That's how adventure games used to be played, unless it was too easy or the player is using a walkthrough, you'd have to save.
I excluded pro's and cons relating to download speeds and file sizes, because they fluctuate. I also didn't mention money, because if you set a price for a product, then there's definately someone out there who'll pay for it.
Yes, this "lack of locations" is a big bother for me. Espically when "Hit the road" has over 20 unique main locations (Main meaning you drive to it, with more scenes through "gates" at that location) opposing... what, two or three locations in culture shock, and so on. TT we need more places to visit please
I wish they could keep the orignal voice actors. Espically with S&M. Max doesn't sound the same without that New York Ting to his accent.
Ah yes, I see what you mean now, You wanna start a game and see the ending in the same evening. That's fair enough.
And obviously so do you dude
Look forward to it, I'm certainly not looking for a hooker, lol.
Sorry about that. You're right, here I was arguing against what you said and not what you meant, that being that "we all know the audio issues with W&G and S&M". This is turning a generalisation into an absolute. But, while I haven't browsed the W&G forums much at all, I really haven't seen many threads relating to audio problems with Sam & Max. But then, it's entirely possible that I simply failed to notice them out of lack of interest.
I'd say I'd check to see just how many there later, just to see if you're justified in saying that so many people had audio problems, but due to my obscene laziness I will concede and give you the benefit of the doubt. This is excellent
*sigh* some people just don't understand the definition of Discussion.
And to tell the truth, I do feel like I get more bang for my buck, because I get more and varied plots, the writers can put different spins on characters, settings, and plot developments throughout the different episodes. Not to mention you get the natural progression over time element from episode to episode-- like seeing the changes in Bosco, and Sybil's progression through jobs. It also gives you more humorous lines as the comments for various things you can click on change from episode to episode. I just think all of the little sidequests, different plots, and overarching plot that you get in, say S&M wouldn't be possible in one long game the way it is in episodes. And if you really count up all the different locations over all the games in one series, I think you'll find there are more locations that you originally thought.
But probably the most important thing for me is that Telltale is one of the few companies coming out with well-scripted adventure games using point and click interface(for the most part-- not a fan of the W&G interface, myself, which I don't consider true point and click) and interesting characters. Taking this into consideration, I would buy telltale games whether or not they're episodic, although truthfully I prefer episodic.
Not much of a discussion when you ignore basically everything I've said and continue to post the same thing over and over.
And don't forget how much variety an episodic structure can give us in storytelling: look at Sam and Max Season 2! One ep, it's xmas themed, the next, it's desert island, the next, zombies! That's a lot of variety you just can't find in most "full length" games!
Yes, there are cons, but I think the pros far out weigh the cons. Besides, full length games aren't always that well polished. Jaws Unleashed (despite being held back for two more months or so, it's as glitchy as hell, almost unplayable at times) and my favorite example: Leisure Suit Larry Box Office Bust.
True. But why bother discussing a topic about something you hate, when the site and people are dedicated to it. Pointless.
I'm Sooo sorry buddy, for "ignoring" your two posts. I didn't realise you had abandonment issues.
You were going on about something to do with the way TT brings out their games with the next one already in it's finishing stages blah blah blah, but I already stated that all my assumptions on TT's inner workings are all speculation and therefore not relevant.
Yes it probably is Fear and doubt, but try easing that doubt.
And Leon101 doesn't get it neither.
I like these posts where people have gone to express their love for these games, and they go on to explain what they get out of it, that's the point.
DoctorDodge gets it, Nimeni gets it, Marduk and Linque gets it but they're at each others throats too :P
jwier, you may not see any negativity here, but that's because this isn't about positives and negatives. It's about opinions, and sharing those opinions.
So yes, I'm a fan of the structure.
It's a tradeoff. The scope of a single episode is lesser than would be the case in a bigger game, but the scope of the entire finished story could potentially be greater than that of a single large game.
That's an assumption. The development times are shorter, but the size of the game (and the way they develop them) reflects it. I've found all of Telltale's games to be pretty polished, myself.
Bad example. The fact that Monkey Island doesn't suffer from these problems and isn't of significantly larger file size that I can tell suggests that the issue doesn't appear to have been one of space.
So you're complaining about something that's completely voluntary and offers an option for people with different preferences?
And that wasn't even an episodic game. It was a traditionally developed graphic adventure with an 18 month schedule and everything. The reason it cuts off before the story's over is because telling an epic story in serialized form is the only way to do it if you're a graphic adventure game (for which you'll never find huge funding) and you want the kind of production values AVS does. This isn't 1997 - if you want to make an adventure game, you will be making a compromise.
If anything, your experience with AVS is one of the bigger reasons why Telltale's model is such a good thing. While Autumn Moon is struggling to find a publisher for AVS2, Telltale is in a position where they can keep putting out Sam & Max and Monkey Island games until they run out of ideas. Taking the quality of the games aside (I love both Autumn Moon and Telltale's efforts), which company is more effectively reviving adventure games? Telltale's found a way to make high quality adventure games that also don't lose money (the explanation: their production pipeline). And in a case where the adventure games sell, the developer AND consumer wins.
I was not a fan of episodic games when they first started but now I quite enjoy the nice light snack of an adventure game once a month. I am far more likely to pick that up and play instead of cracking open a new rpg and having to devote 80+ hours.