As person who created this thread i'm loving this sort argument with great depth and points haters gonna hate but i love reading it and encourage more thumb for all comments
I dunno I just hope we don't go the Quantic Dream route of interactive birthing simulator with Rebecca next episode, Helen Paige playing hobo midwife was enough for me on that front.
Then again it would fall into the trope of Clementine doing everything for this dumb group. Advanced Recon? Check. Turbine Operator? Check. Baby Delivery? ...why not???
Ahh I thought you might find my mistake in wording. Going back to my WWII anology- what many (Americans) would deem as necessary, many others (Japan) would deem as excessive. I had no other terminology to fall back on so I used my defaut wording, which happened to contradict. I hope the analogy break down cleared up my misused words
Perhaps instead of 'necessary' I should be using the word understandable, or applicable.
Yes, I do enjoy a good discussion. I have gone through and liked your posts as well. (I always forget those like/dislike things are even the… morere honestly. It doesn't bother me)
At this point, I'm a little confused. You say "I'm not saying that the 16 months didn't set up this story, or that it wasn't necessary" and then you follow that with "it was excessive." Those cannot both be true. If something is necessary, it is by definition not excessive. If I put an excessive amount of sugar in my cake, then I have put far more sugar than was necessary. If I put the necessary amount of sugar in the cake, then the amount of sugar I put could not be excessive. It was the necessary amount.
Then I suppose I am arguing that it was indeed necessary, not just understandable.
What other options were there? If there was no time skip, then we are still stuck with a little girl who is not able to fend for herself either mentally or physically so then we have two options:
Make Christa the player character and basically just have a rehash of season one again where you have to take care of a little girl.
Make Clementine the player character and have a ridiculous situation where the player character is not actually in control because she is young and weak, so Christa makes the big decisions and we get to follow.
I don't see how either of those would be fun games to play. Therefore, I argue that the 16 month jump was completely necessary in order for season 2 to be fun.
Ahh I thought you might find my mistake in wording. Going back to my WWII anology- what many (Americans) would deem as necessary, many other… mores (Japan) would deem as excessive. I had no other terminology to fall back on so I used my defaut wording, which happened to contradict. I hope the analogy break down cleared up my misused words
Perhaps instead of 'necessary' I should be using the word understandable, or applicable.
Again this is where the terminology fails the situation. They had to time jump, but it could have been handled differently. Even a cinematic event trailing the duo would have done more justice to the 16 months than '16 months later.' We should have a much deeper connection to Christa. Even if she blames Clem for Omid's death (which I think she does) she cared for her for 16 months. It's safe to assume she saved her life on multiple occassions. Providing for her, teaching her. All we have as inference of anything happening between them in 16 long months is Christa's flat stomache and a cold monotone.
Perhaps my wording problem stems from excessive rather than necessary. I'm not sure how else to word that though....
Distasteful usage of - ?
I'm heading to bed, if you reply I will probably respond tomorrow
Then I suppose I am arguing that it was indeed necessary, not just understandable.
What other options were there? If there was no time sk… moreip, then we are still stuck with a little girl who is not able to fend for herself either mentally or physically so then we have two options:
* Make Christa the player character and basically just have a rehash of season one again where you have to take care of a little girl.
* Make Clementine the player character and have a ridiculous situation where the player character is not actually in control because she is young and weak, so Christa makes the big decisions and we get to follow.
I don't see how either of those would be fun games to play. Therefore, I argue that the 16 month jump was completely necessary in order for season 2 to be fun.
I can mostly get behind the idea of a montage of them out there during those 16 months.
The only problem I can see with that is that it would pretty much have to show how the baby died. Without the montage we just see them without a baby and we know the baby is dead and we know that the baby likely died in a horrific manner. Nothing more needs to be said. I think it would significantly decrease the emotional impact if we actually got to see exactly how it happened.
Again this is where the terminology fails the situation. They had to time jump, but it could have been handled differently. Even a cinematic… more event trailing the duo would have done more justice to the 16 months than '16 months later.' We should have a much deeper connection to Christa. Even if she blames Clem for Omid's death (which I think she does) she cared for her for 16 months. It's safe to assume she saved her life on multiple occassions. Providing for her, teaching her. All we have as inference of anything happening between them in 16 long months is Christa's flat stomache and a cold monotone.
Perhaps my wording problem stems from excessive rather than necessary. I'm not sure how else to word that though....
Distasteful usage of - ?
I'm heading to bed, if you reply I will probably respond tomorrow
Who says they needed to cover that exact moment? I'm not a writer/creater (well, at least I don't get paid for it xD ), but even I could figure a creative way to get aroudn that situation, leaving it to be detailed later with Rebecca (likeI think they plan on doing).
I can mostly get behind the idea of a montage of them out there during those 16 months.
The only problem I can see with that is that it w… moreould pretty much have to show how the baby died. Without the montage we just see them without a baby and we know the baby is dead and we know that the baby likely died in a horrific manner. Nothing more needs to be said. I think it would significantly decrease the emotional impact if we actually got to see exactly how it happened.
It is probably the most significant thing that happened to them the entire time they were out there by themselves. It certainly was for Christa! It would be a hard thing to write around. But if they could figure out a way to do it without letting the cat completely out of the bag, then a montage would have been nice. Sure. But then hind sight is 20/20 and it's easy to say what they should have done after the game is already out. The way they did it was good enough, though. It's at least not worth the attention it keeps getting on these forums from people complaining endlessly about "time jumps." (again, not you, but I'm sure you've seen it). The five day skip was definitely worse because there should have been more character development in that gap, but even that's not so bad as to be worth wasting time complaining about.
Who says they needed to cover that exact moment? I'm not a writer/creater (well, at least I don't get paid for it xD ), but even I could fig… moreure a creative way to get aroudn that situation, leaving it to be detailed later with Rebecca (likeI think they plan on doing).
So much for sleeping, stupid internet.
Yeah, I've seen that a lot with youtubers. It's like they can't see something right in front of them. Still, I'm hoping that the majority of the fanbase did check all the options, or most of them at least. It adds a lot of depth to the game. Plus, the game had a wonderful way to MAKE you do that talking sometimes. At the Motor Inn, the flashlight puzzle meant you had to ask everyone, and that meant you would get a chance to talk with them. It was a great mechanic.
Though yeah, I guess you're right. My RPG instincts have told me to explore every sidequest, mission, and in this case, smalltalk before I do the thing that I expect will progress the story. Probably explains why I've got good endings in many cases. DAO, ME, DA2, ME2, ME3, Witcher, Witcher 2, TWD, Dishonored, etc. I'm stubborn that way, but it's true that many people don't like doing that.
While I do think that they should do a little more, I think that example shouldn't be. We don't know what Walter would've done, so lying seems a reasonable course of action, and it shouldn't have affected Walter much. Though maybe I am biased, since Nick is alive in my game, and I did lie.
I wish telltale would have your choices bite you in the ass more. Like in episode 2 you can lie to Walter about everything but all you have … moreto do is say that Nick is a good guy and he won't let him die. I think Telltale should show a lot more mercy with these people who do a lot of awful things in the game but one time they say the right thing and everything turns out "Peachy". I want my decisions to really hurt! Maybe I'm just masochist with these sort of things.
Or they could just make aiming with the mouse matter more to headshotting walkers, and the bottle mini game is literally also practice for the player's aim.
Yeah, I think the shooting practice would be cool. And it would be better if you only got one chance to play the minigame, and if you got a … morecertain percentage, it would make Clem kill zombies in one shot. And if you got under the percentage, she would still kill zombies with two shots.
i dont think s/he meant it as a bad thing. Its true, if telltale added more hubs & puzzles here and there the episodes would be longer and playing them would be more satisfying. As much as i love episode 2 it was pretty much just cut-scenes after cut-scenes
i dunno, i found it pretty interesting that nick can die cos of what you choose to say(aka if you say hes just like everyone else). That was really cool,imo
I wish telltale would have your choices bite you in the ass more. Like in episode 2 you can lie to Walter about everything but all you have … moreto do is say that Nick is a good guy and he won't let him die. I think Telltale should show a lot more mercy with these people who do a lot of awful things in the game but one time they say the right thing and everything turns out "Peachy". I want my decisions to really hurt! Maybe I'm just masochist with these sort of things.
Honestly all the shit we've seen in twd-universe and you guys freak out cos of delivering babies? Lol..and honestly clem has probably been through baby delivering with christa in the past so that is one of the few occasions where it makes sense that clem must do the ''adult work''.
But yea another thing i want in the futute episodes is that clem wouldnt have to do so much of the more dangerous stuff. I get that shes tough and all-and she really is!- but it just makes the adults look idiotic when they rely on clem to go on the bridge with luke or scavenging the little house for food..and the whole thing with that wind turbine..Playing as a kid id expect that everyone tells her to stay safe and the player gets to do more stealth and other kinds of puzzles cos the adults wont let her do anythin. it would feel more ''realistic'' imo.
I dunno I just hope we don't go the Quantic Dream route of interactive birthing simulator with Rebecca next episode, Helen Paige playing hob… moreo midwife was enough for me on that front.
Then again it would fall into the trope of Clementine doing everything for this dumb group. Advanced Recon? Check. Turbine Operator? Check. Baby Delivery? ...why not???
"Guys guys guys isn't it sad how sex and childbirth are stigmatized and violence isn't oh man America is such a backward place I'm glad I'm such an enlightened human being and have this incredibly original thought to express lolol can't wait to see a vagina."
Honestly all the shit we've seen in twd-universe and you guys freak out cos of delivering babies? Lol..and honestly clem has probably been t… morehrough baby delivering with christa in the past so that is one of the few occasions where it makes sense that clem must do the ''adult work''.
But yea another thing i want in the futute episodes is that clem wouldnt have to do so much of the more dangerous stuff. I get that shes tough and all-and she really is!- but it just makes the adults look idiotic when they rely on clem to go on the bridge with luke or scavenging the little house for food..and the whole thing with that wind turbine..Playing as a kid id expect that everyone tells her to stay safe and the player gets to do more stealth and other kinds of puzzles cos the adults wont let her do anythin. it would feel more ''realistic'' imo.
dude what? Are you seriously mocking me cos i feel like a childbirth experience in the game wouldnt even be that weird considering how much fucked up shit we've seen? Both the comics and the tv-show has shown childbirth, get over yourself. Jesus..
Its not probably even gonna be an event where we ZOOM in to see the baby come out or anything, clem will maybe just be helping out and someone else will do the ''dirty work'' or something.
"Guys guys guys isn't it sad how sex and childbirth are stigmatized and violence isn't oh man America is such a backward place I'm glad I'm … moresuch an enlightened human being and have this incredibly original thought to express lolol can't wait to see a vagina."
I definitely agree with the part about determinant characters. If you save someone, they're usually next to useless until day die anyway a bit later. I'd rather have a character that I can save that will actually last a while, and can make a difference in the story, rather than someone who does almost nothing because 'other players will miss out on it'. Some of the fun in this game comes from going down different paths and seeing what happens, so a massive choice like saving different characters who impact the story greatly would be a nice thing to have.
I'd like to see a sort of tactical management of the group during a battle against another group or against walkers, or give the player the … moreopportunity to prepare the group at best for it.
I.e. Decide to give a rifle to kenny or Nick in prevision of a battle, establish where your companions should stay and what to do during a battle or an ambush, or also, decide to let a wounded charachter fight or make him/her rest and loose some offensive power for a higher chanche of his/her survival.
Also, I'd like to see that your choiches actually change the course of events. Up until now, in the end your choiches don't actually make a change, the story evolves in a pre-established way no matter what you do (i.e., you get caught by Carver no matter what, or Lilly kills Carley/Dough in S1).
Even if you save a charachter from death, the same charachter is gonna die anyway shortly after, and be relatively useless while they're still alive (like carl… [view original content]
Are you seriously mocking me cos i feel like a childbirth experience in the game wouldnt even be that weird considering how much fucked up shit we've seen?
dude what? Are you seriously mocking me cos i feel like a childbirth experience in the game wouldnt even be that weird considering how much … morefucked up shit we've seen? Both the comics and the tv-show has shown childbirth, get over yourself. Jesus..
Its not probably even gonna be an event where we ZOOM in to see the baby come out or anything, clem will maybe just be helping out and someone else will do the ''dirty work'' or something.
Are you seriously mocking me cos i feel like a childbirth experience in the game wouldnt even be that weird considering how much fucked up shit we've seen?
Yes.
Clem, Sarah, Becca, and all the teen characters have a dance off and celebrate at the last episode of season 2 . i would also like to have a chance to replay the story as the villains and other characters to see their point of views. like choose your character make your own story. example we can be carver and decide if we want to be a villian or hero to people.
this, and also more puzzles. Also some stealth-moments would be pretty cool, it fits well with the fact that we play as a kid after all(for example clem gets told that she cant do a certain thing -> we need to go and sneak after it cos fuck the police).
Nick survived in my playthrough but I decided to play a second time to see all the other choices. I lied to Walter about everything. I said we didn't do anything. Yet I say Nick is a good guy and the guy still shoots the walker off Nick. I just wish that Telltale should have been less forgiving with that choice.
While I do think that they should do a little more, I think that example shouldn't be. We don't know what Walter would've done, so lying see… morems a reasonable course of action, and it shouldn't have affected Walter much. Though maybe I am biased, since Nick is alive in my game, and I did lie.
Or they could just make aiming with the mouse matter more to headshotting walkers, and the bottle mini game is literally also practice for the player's aim.
Could've have said it better myself. The second I learned that Nick and Alvin are determinant, I immediately discounted them as a major part of the story. The only problem is that allowing he story to branch off requires a lot more writing.
I definitely agree with the part about determinant characters. If you save someone, they're usually next to useless until day die anyway a b… moreit later. I'd rather have a character that I can save that will actually last a while, and can make a difference in the story, rather than someone who does almost nothing because 'other players will miss out on it'. Some of the fun in this game comes from going down different paths and seeing what happens, so a massive choice like saving different characters who impact the story greatly would be a nice thing to have.
I say that if they have the staff to carry on S2, the wolf among us, The game of thrones thingy and tales from borderlands all at the same time, they can as well concentrate on one brand ad do the writing for more branches
Could've have said it better myself. The second I learned that Nick and Alvin are determinant, I immediately discounted them as a major part of the story. The only problem is that allowing he story to branch off requires a lot more writing.
I'd like to see a sort of tactical management of the group during a battle against another group or against walkers, or give the player the … moreopportunity to prepare the group at best for it.
I.e. Decide to give a rifle to kenny or Nick in prevision of a battle, establish where your companions should stay and what to do during a battle or an ambush, or also, decide to let a wounded charachter fight or make him/her rest and loose some offensive power for a higher chanche of his/her survival.
Also, I'd like to see that your choiches actually change the course of events. Up until now, in the end your choiches don't actually make a change, the story evolves in a pre-established way no matter what you do (i.e., you get caught by Carver no matter what, or Lilly kills Carley/Dough in S1).
Even if you save a charachter from death, the same charachter is gonna die anyway shortly after, and be relatively useless while they're still alive (like carl… [view original content]
Comments
I didn't even realize this was your thread
I dunno I just hope we don't go the Quantic Dream route of interactive birthing simulator with Rebecca next episode, Helen Paige playing hobo midwife was enough for me on that front.
Then again it would fall into the trope of Clementine doing everything for this dumb group. Advanced Recon? Check. Turbine Operator? Check. Baby Delivery? ...why not???
Ahh I thought you might find my mistake in wording. Going back to my WWII anology- what many (Americans) would deem as necessary, many others (Japan) would deem as excessive. I had no other terminology to fall back on so I used my defaut wording, which happened to contradict. I hope the analogy break down cleared up my misused words
Perhaps instead of 'necessary' I should be using the word understandable, or applicable.
Then I suppose I am arguing that it was indeed necessary, not just understandable.
What other options were there? If there was no time skip, then we are still stuck with a little girl who is not able to fend for herself either mentally or physically so then we have two options:
I don't see how either of those would be fun games to play. Therefore, I argue that the 16 month jump was completely necessary in order for season 2 to be fun.
Again this is where the terminology fails the situation. They had to time jump, but it could have been handled differently. Even a cinematic event trailing the duo would have done more justice to the 16 months than '16 months later.' We should have a much deeper connection to Christa. Even if she blames Clem for Omid's death (which I think she does) she cared for her for 16 months. It's safe to assume she saved her life on multiple occassions. Providing for her, teaching her. All we have as inference of anything happening between them in 16 long months is Christa's flat stomache and a cold monotone.
Perhaps my wording problem stems from excessive rather than necessary. I'm not sure how else to word that though....
Distasteful usage of - ?
I'm heading to bed, if you reply I will probably respond tomorrow
I can mostly get behind the idea of a montage of them out there during those 16 months.
The only problem I can see with that is that it would pretty much have to show how the baby died. Without the montage we just see them without a baby and we know the baby is dead and we know that the baby likely died in a horrific manner. Nothing more needs to be said. I think it would significantly decrease the emotional impact if we actually got to see exactly how it happened.
Who says they needed to cover that exact moment? I'm not a writer/creater (well, at least I don't get paid for it xD ), but even I could figure a creative way to get aroudn that situation, leaving it to be detailed later with Rebecca (likeI think they plan on doing).
So much for sleeping, stupid internet.
It is probably the most significant thing that happened to them the entire time they were out there by themselves. It certainly was for Christa! It would be a hard thing to write around. But if they could figure out a way to do it without letting the cat completely out of the bag, then a montage would have been nice. Sure. But then hind sight is 20/20 and it's easy to say what they should have done after the game is already out. The way they did it was good enough, though. It's at least not worth the attention it keeps getting on these forums from people complaining endlessly about "time jumps." (again, not you, but I'm sure you've seen it). The five day skip was definitely worse because there should have been more character development in that gap, but even that's not so bad as to be worth wasting time complaining about.
Yeah, I've seen that a lot with youtubers. It's like they can't see something right in front of them. Still, I'm hoping that the majority of the fanbase did check all the options, or most of them at least. It adds a lot of depth to the game. Plus, the game had a wonderful way to MAKE you do that talking sometimes. At the Motor Inn, the flashlight puzzle meant you had to ask everyone, and that meant you would get a chance to talk with them. It was a great mechanic.
Though yeah, I guess you're right. My RPG instincts have told me to explore every sidequest, mission, and in this case, smalltalk before I do the thing that I expect will progress the story. Probably explains why I've got good endings in many cases. DAO, ME, DA2, ME2, ME3, Witcher, Witcher 2, TWD, Dishonored, etc. I'm stubborn that way, but it's true that many people don't like doing that.
While I do think that they should do a little more, I think that example shouldn't be. We don't know what Walter would've done, so lying seems a reasonable course of action, and it shouldn't have affected Walter much. Though maybe I am biased, since Nick is alive in my game, and I did lie.
Or they could just make aiming with the mouse matter more to headshotting walkers, and the bottle mini game is literally also practice for the player's aim.
Look at my avatar. I've been bitching about it since the episode launched, and it's good to see that people liked those, too. (Hubs)
i dont think s/he meant it as a bad thing. Its true, if telltale added more hubs & puzzles here and there the episodes would be longer and playing them would be more satisfying. As much as i love episode 2 it was pretty much just cut-scenes after cut-scenes
i dunno, i found it pretty interesting that nick can die cos of what you choose to say(aka if you say hes just like everyone else). That was really cool,imo
Honestly all the shit we've seen in twd-universe and you guys freak out cos of delivering babies? Lol..and honestly clem has probably been through baby delivering with christa in the past so that is one of the few occasions where it makes sense that clem must do the ''adult work''.
But yea another thing i want in the futute episodes is that clem wouldnt have to do so much of the more dangerous stuff. I get that shes tough and all-and she really is!- but it just makes the adults look idiotic when they rely on clem to go on the bridge with luke or scavenging the little house for food..and the whole thing with that wind turbine..Playing as a kid id expect that everyone tells her to stay safe and the player gets to do more stealth and other kinds of puzzles cos the adults wont let her do anythin. it would feel more ''realistic'' imo.
"Guys guys guys isn't it sad how sex and childbirth are stigmatized and violence isn't oh man America is such a backward place I'm glad I'm such an enlightened human being and have this incredibly original thought to express lolol can't wait to see a vagina."
dude what? Are you seriously mocking me cos i feel like a childbirth experience in the game wouldnt even be that weird considering how much fucked up shit we've seen? Both the comics and the tv-show has shown childbirth, get over yourself. Jesus..
Its not probably even gonna be an event where we ZOOM in to see the baby come out or anything, clem will maybe just be helping out and someone else will do the ''dirty work'' or something.
New path choosing moments with timed scavenging, just like the beginning of S1 episode 3
I definitely agree with the part about determinant characters. If you save someone, they're usually next to useless until day die anyway a bit later. I'd rather have a character that I can save that will actually last a while, and can make a difference in the story, rather than someone who does almost nothing because 'other players will miss out on it'. Some of the fun in this game comes from going down different paths and seeing what happens, so a massive choice like saving different characters who impact the story greatly would be a nice thing to have.
Just more talking, hubs and longer episodes.
Yes.
well that says a lot about you and your maturity.
Clem, Sarah, Becca, and all the teen characters have a dance off and celebrate at the last episode of season 2
. i would also like to have a chance to replay the story as the villains and other characters to see their point of views. like choose your character make your own story. example we can be carver and decide if we want to be a villian or hero to people.
people keep mentioning hubs. what do ya'll mean hubs?
Hub is a place you can walk freely and talk to everybody when you want and know more about them.
It does.
Oh shit, Bot alert. Bot alert.
this, and also more puzzles. Also some stealth-moments would be pretty cool, it fits well with the fact that we play as a kid after all(for example clem gets told that she cant do a certain thing -> we need to go and sneak after it cos fuck the police).
Nick survived in my playthrough but I decided to play a second time to see all the other choices. I lied to Walter about everything. I said we didn't do anything. Yet I say Nick is a good guy and the guy still shoots the walker off Nick. I just wish that Telltale should have been less forgiving with that choice.
Run to the hills everybody
true be good
Don't feed the trolls. They bite.
Their posts say No, but their posting says Yes.
A rapist mentality. Tisk tisk lol.
Could've have said it better myself. The second I learned that Nick and Alvin are determinant, I immediately discounted them as a major part of the story. The only problem is that allowing he story to branch off requires a lot more writing.
I say that if they have the staff to carry on S2, the wolf among us, The game of thrones thingy and tales from borderlands all at the same time, they can as well concentrate on one brand ad do the writing for more branches
Mass Effect 2 was like that
And that's why i love mass effect
You and me both, pal
Mass effect is another really good game. I'm actually playing the second one now and it was greatly improved.