You make some great points, But you've got it all wrong. People aren't comparing Ben and Nick based on the role they play on the story, They compare them based on their actions and how they miraculously manage to fuck everything up. To say Nate,Carver, and the St. Johns actions aren't somewhat similar just like Ben's and Nick's are is just atrocious. Nate killed two people in cold blood, So did Carver, Nate is assumed to be a pedo, so is Danny St. John.
Edit: Danny St, John also killed a woman in cold blood, Jolene.
People compare Ben and Nick because they fill the "inexperienced kid who keeps mucking things up" archetype. They fill similar roles in thei… morer respective groups whereas Nate was a loner and a companion for Russell while Danny St. John and Carver are the active antagonists of their Seasons, at least for the periods they appear. Nate never attacks Russell, the worst he does is abandon him if you choose to try and stay with him. Danny St. John wanted to eat you and Carver tortures and murders the people he claims to care about. To compare them is some serious false equivalence.
Why is Nate assumed to be a pedo? Because of the daughter comments? The daughter he clearly assumed was post-pubescent from the breast gestures? I'm not arguing over the accuracy of comparing Ben and Nick, the comparison is good for a chuckle but I like to consider characters on their own merits without grouping them together; which is why I'm bringing up that Nate, Danny St. John and Carver are all different right now.
Nate murdered two people. He shot them in cold blood and robbed them, that much is fact and you've noted it. However, the circumstances between Nate's situation and Danny St. Johns are very different. Nate saved Russell on two occasions - once from Walkers on the highway (he'll even come back if Russell insults him once seeing the Walkers) and again when he pulls Russell behind cover after he trips. We don't know if the old couple's claims about Nate and "a gang" coming to steal their food is true or not, though the fact he was driving down the road towards the gas station from an opposite direction strongly suggests otherwise - but the fact is Nate acted no worse than your average post-world bandit. If someone had flattened your tired, shot and threatened you and one of them was certain to turn anyways, why not take the shot? Nate's crime was largely a crime of opportunity, he did not go looking for people to murder and steal from.
Whereas Danny St. John and Carver both pursue trouble. Danny St. John and his brother lure survivors, LARGE NUMBERS of survivors, to their farm for the sole purpose of murdering and consuming them. I don't get where the pedophile thing comes from, cept for the creepy comment about watching children, but even if that were the case, you'd really lump Nate, hell, even Carver in with a cannibal who actively hunts people? If you're going to say it's wrong to compare characters based on actions, then don't do the very same thing with Nate, Carver and Danny St. John.
You make some great points, But you've got it all wrong. People aren't comparing Ben and Nick based on the role they play on the story, They… more compare them based on their actions and how they miraculously manage to fuck everything up. To say Nate,Carver, and the St. Johns actions aren't somewhat similar just like Ben's and Nick's are is just atrocious. Nate killed two people in cold blood, So did Carver, Nate is assumed to be a pedo, so is Danny St. John.
Edit: Danny St, John also killed a woman in cold blood, Jolene.
Once again, You are getting into unimportant details that are making us go around in circles now. Nate saved Russel ? True but irrelevant to the topic. Danny and Carver's reason for comitting their crimes so to speak was a lot less understandable than Nate's ? Indeed. If we were talking about their importance to the story or trying to support their reasoning for doing such things with facts you would be totally right. Carver and Nate did the exact same thing and you're telling me its not similar, Based on the lone fact that they did it for different reasons.
Why is Nate assumed to be a pedo? Because of the daughter comments? The daughter he clearly assumed was post-pubescent from the breast gestu… moreres? I'm not arguing over the accuracy of comparing Ben and Nick, the comparison is good for a chuckle but I like to consider characters on their own merits without grouping them together; which is why I'm bringing up that Nate, Danny St. John and Carver are all different right now.
Nate murdered two people. He shot them in cold blood and robbed them, that much is fact and you've noted it. However, the circumstances between Nate's situation and Danny St. Johns are very different. Nate saved Russell on two occasions - once from Walkers on the highway (he'll even come back if Russell insults him once seeing the Walkers) and again when he pulls Russell behind cover after he trips. We don't know if the old couple's claims about Nate and "a gang" coming to steal their food is true or not, though the fact he… [view original content]
I want you to reread that and tell me how anything they did is the same. We don't know much about Carver but his motives are completely different from Nate's. I bring up other details of Nate's character because in an argument like this the only way to argue for why characters shouldn't be grouped together is to point out their differences. Would Danny St. John have picked up or helped someone he'd just met? Probably, but not without the ulterior motive of eating them. Carver? Probably, but under the condition that you remain within his group and under his laws if what we've seen so far is anything to go by. Nate, on the other hand, lets Russell walk away during the DLC or a few months later without much fuss. That alone is a better testament to his moral character and just how much he doesn't fit in with, at the very least, Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are just such radically different characters that I can't really see the logic in grouping them together. They're charismatic, amoral people is the best I can say - but even then there's just not enough about Carver that we know yet.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore? That it's wrong to group characters together (when it suits you) or that Nate, Danny and Carver are all the same? Do you not see as how contradictory your points are coming across as?
Once again, You are getting into unimportant details that are making us go around in circles now. Nate saved Russel ? True but irrelevant to… more the topic. Danny and Carver's reason for comitting their crimes so to speak was a lot less understandable than Nate's ? Indeed. If we were talking about their importance to the story or trying to support their reasoning for doing such things with facts you would be totally right. Carver and Nate did the exact same thing and you're telling me its not similar, Based on the lone fact that they did it for different reasons.
Carver shot two people in the head in less than Two minutes, Nate did the same. " How did Carver and Nate do the same thing ?" Unless you are assuming Im saying they each killed two people the same age, Which I would understand since Nate's victims were an old couple, I don't find it in me to understand your reasoning or any of the points you're making, Sorry. If We keep on discussing the points you made we will probably end up having to count who killed more people. Nice chat, But none of the things you said were realistic enough to make me change my opinion.
"Carver and Nate did the exact same thing"
I want you to reread that and tell me how anything they did is the same. We don't know much ab… moreout Carver but his motives are completely different from Nate's. I bring up other details of Nate's character because in an argument like this the only way to argue for why characters shouldn't be grouped together is to point out their differences. Would Danny St. John have picked up or helped someone he'd just met? Probably, but not without the ulterior motive of eating them. Carver? Probably, but under the condition that you remain within his group and under his laws if what we've seen so far is anything to go by. Nate, on the other hand, lets Russell walk away during the DLC or a few months later without much fuss. That alone is a better testament to his moral character and just how much he doesn't fit in with, at the very least, Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are just such radically different charact… [view original content]
So you concede that your arguments are completely contradictory? One minute you say not to compare two characters and then precede to compare three characters who have even less in common? I can accept that false equivalence is a pretty weak argument, sure. I could have accepted if you just stuck to the Carver and Nate comparison, even though they're nothing alike in terms of personality or motives - but where the hell did Danny St. John come from?
Carver shot two people in the head in less than Two minutes, Nate did the same. " How did Carver and Nate do the same thing ?" Unless you ar… moree assuming Im saying they each killed two people the same age, Which I would understand since Nate's victims were an old couple, I don't find it in me to understand your reasoning or any of the points you're making, Sorry. If We keep on discussing the points you made we will probably end up having to count who killed more people. Nice chat, But none of the things you said were realistic enough to make me change my opinion.
Like I said before, Thanks in large part to you providing unimportant details that have nothing to do with this the argument is now going around in circles. You're in denial, You keep bringing up the fact that their reasons for doing what they did are different which I agreed with you about 15 sentences ago, You keep saying they didn't do a similar thing when I already explained to you with lots of details how they are. Unless I was a 5 years old child who can be easily fooled with overused facts and mindblowing statements its impossible to agree with you.
So you concede that your arguments are completely contradictory? One minute you say not to compare two characters and then precede to compar… moree three characters who have even less in common? I can accept that false equivalence is a pretty weak argument, sure. I could have accepted if you just stuck to the Carver and Nate comparison, even though they're nothing alike in terms of personality or motives - but where the hell did Danny St. John come from?
Here's the thing, though. Your argument was that Carver, Nate and Danny St. John were comparable while simultaneously claiming that comparing Nick and Ben was inaccurate. We aren't even going in circles because you already agreed that their motives are different so to compare them is a huge fallacy. You can file all types of killing people in a post-apocalyptic world into one category, but that's terribly black and white and a huge disservice to complex characters. I can't imagine not being able to enjoy and recognize the broad personality traits of different characters.
I'm not even going to touch "overused facts and mindblowing statements" because I've never seen so many words used that still managed to say absolutely nothing.
Like I said before, Thanks in large part to you providing unimportant details that have nothing to do with this the argument is now going ar… moreound in circles. You're in denial, You keep bringing up the fact that their reasons for doing what they did are different which I agreed with you about 15 sentences ago, You keep saying they didn't do a similar thing when I already explained to you with lots of details how they are. Unless I was a 5 years old child who can be easily fooled with overused facts and mindblowing statements its impossible to agree with you.
You basically got into an argument without even knowing the other guy's position. Inever said I was against people comparing Ben and Nick, I said Im against people like you failing to recognize and/or admit those same similarities with other characters just cause they like him like you with your Nate avatar , You refused to admit those same similarities after basically rubbing it in my face that Nick and Ben are like the other's shadow. Sorry but in my world your points make no sense and that's as far as this argument needs to go.
On a little P.S : Im not the one downvoting you just in case you wanted start another argument all over just because you assume its me.
Here's the thing, though. Your argument was that Carver, Nate and Danny St. John were comparable while simultaneously claiming that comparin… moreg Nick and Ben was inaccurate. We aren't even going in circles because you already agreed that their motives are different so to compare them is a huge fallacy. You can file all types of killing people in a post-apocalyptic world into one category, but that's terribly black and white and a huge disservice to complex characters. I can't imagine not being able to enjoy and recognize the broad personality traits of different characters.
I'm not even going to touch "overused facts and mindblowing statements" because I've never seen so many words used that still managed to say absolutely nothing.
You're preemptively defending yourself against something that you would be incapable of doing (unless you have the magical ability to downvote a single post more than once) with the expectation that I actually care about the upvoting and downvoting system.
Anyways, you said, "You can't just sort all categories of screw ups in one folder." if I'm to quote directly. You then turned and sorted all categories of murderers into one categories. Or was it a pedophile angle you were going for? Morality, maybe? Or just some concept of who was actually losing their grip on sanity in TWD universe? I mean you were kind of vague in just what made you lump Danny, Nate and Carver together. If you were going just for the fact they killed in cold blood, then that groups going to have to be a lot bigger. I never compared Nick or Ben beyond the fact that they're the inexperienced kids of their group if we're speaking base archetypes. I admit that if you look at actions in the most black and white sense, then you'll find those similarities; but it's the sort of situation where you have to actively be trying to find a reason to lump them together to find. Motives alone were so vastly different between those three characters that they aren't even in the same group. And for the record, I actually really like Carver (hell, he's voiced by a guy who was not only in Reservoir Dogs but also a voice of my favorite character in Dishonored), but if he's going to be sorted into some group with other characters it should be for something far less catch-all then, "he murders people".
You basically got into an argument without even knowing the other guy's position. Inever said I was against people comparing Ben and Nick, I… more said Im against people like you failing to recognize and/or admit those same similarities with other characters just cause they like him like you with your Nate avatar , You refused to admit those same similarities after basically rubbing it in my face that Nick and Ben are like the other's shadow. Sorry but in my world your points make no sense and that's as far as this argument needs to go.
On a little P.S : Im not the one downvoting you just in case you wanted start another argument all over just because you assume its me.
The last two or three times I felt like you didn't even read my answer, If you would've told me before this all started that you're either okay with these comparisons or completely against them this whole discussion could've been avoided. But it just feels like hipocrisy that you constantly bring up the similarities between Nick and Ben but fail to see those of different characters, One of them is ironically your avatar and you refuse to admit his negative traits. Sorry If Im mistaking you but at this point in the conversation it just feels like you are purposely refusing to admit some of your favorite character's flaws.
You're preemptively defending yourself against something that you would be incapable of doing (unless you have the magical ability to downvo… morete a single post more than once) with the expectation that I actually care about the upvoting and downvoting system.
Anyways, you said, "You can't just sort all categories of screw ups in one folder." if I'm to quote directly. You then turned and sorted all categories of murderers into one categories. Or was it a pedophile angle you were going for? Morality, maybe? Or just some concept of who was actually losing their grip on sanity in TWD universe? I mean you were kind of vague in just what made you lump Danny, Nate and Carver together. If you were going just for the fact they killed in cold blood, then that groups going to have to be a lot bigger. I never compared Nick or Ben beyond the fact that they're the inexperienced kids of their group if we're speaking base archetypes. I admit that if you look… [view original content]
Woah, woah dude, you're equating me with the loads of people here. And hell, I love flawed characters. I'll gladly tell you that Nick and Ben are huge fuck ups but hey, I kept Ben around to give him that redemption he so desperately wanted (and because he was just a kid, and Clementine's friend), and I told Walter Nick was a good person. I spend a lot of time shitting on characters... verbally, I mean, but generally there isn't a character in TWD I don't like or at least appreciate for their writing. That said, I admitted pretty early on that Nate was a murderer with little, if any morality. I'm just saying that I can understand WHY people would compare Ben to Nick. I just don't really see how you can make that association between Nate, Carver and Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are sort of situationional assholes, whereas Danny is a straight up piece of trash. I mean.. what are Nate's negative traits? So far he has more positive one's than Carver, despite being an attempted (Wyatt and Eddie) and a confirmed murderer. Carver is just one hell of a mystery right now, though I digress because I'm getting way off point here. All TWD characters have positive and negative traits, the fact people can argue about them so much is a testament to the character writing yaddayaddayadda.
The last two or three times I felt like you didn't even read my answer, If you would've told me before this all started that you're either o… morekay with these comparisons or completely against them this whole discussion could've been avoided. But it just feels like hipocrisy that you constantly bring up the similarities between Nick and Ben but fail to see those of different characters, One of them is ironically your avatar and you refuse to admit his negative traits. Sorry If Im mistaking you but at this point in the conversation it just feels like you are purposely refusing to admit some of your favorite character's flaws.
End of story, I see a resemblance between Nate and Carver that apparantly you don't.. And you know what's the good thing about it ? You don't have to. That's the beautiful thing about this game and its characters people can see them in many different ways and feel completely different about them compared to others. This was a nice discussion though, Both made good points that the other just happened to disagree with.
Woah, woah dude, you're equating me with the loads of people here. And hell, I love flawed characters. I'll gladly tell you that Nick and Be… moren are huge fuck ups but hey, I kept Ben around to give him that redemption he so desperately wanted (and because he was just a kid, and Clementine's friend), and I told Walter Nick was a good person. I spend a lot of time shitting on characters... verbally, I mean, but generally there isn't a character in TWD I don't like or at least appreciate for their writing. That said, I admitted pretty early on that Nate was a murderer with little, if any morality. I'm just saying that I can understand WHY people would compare Ben to Nick. I just don't really see how you can make that association between Nate, Carver and Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are sort of situationional assholes, whereas Danny is a straight up piece of trash. I mean.. what are Nate's negative traits? So far he has more positive one's than C… [view original content]
End of story, I see a resemblance between Nate and Carver that apparantly you don't.. And you know what's the good thing about it ? You don'… moret have to. That's the beautiful thing about this game and its characters people can see them in many different ways and feel completely different about them compared to others. This was a nice discussion though, Both made good points that the other just happened to disagree with.
Haha oh shit take my like for the awesome picture ! Let me clarify this for you just in case you got confused amodst the argument, I love Nate as well despite him being a sociopath for the most part Im one of the few who thinks he has a brighter side we haven't seen yet.
Don't worry, I didn't think you hated Nate. I just found the grouping strange. Nate has a lot of fans I think because he's one of those characters who seems to have reacted to the world falling apart by going, "Yeah, could be fun." Probably a perk of having a working truck, even if it's tires and front light got blown out.
Haha oh shit take my like for the awesome picture ! Let me clarify this for you just in case you got confused amodst the argument, I love Na… morete as well despite him being a sociopath for the most part Im one of the few who thinks he has a brighter side we haven't seen yet.
Im actually anticipating that if he does appear in Season 2 like we all want to he won't be a bad guy. Can you imagine this guy watching out for Clem without us having to worry he's gonna put a bullet on her head ? He seems like one of those dudes that despite their fatal flaws are willing to do anything to protect his people, We saw bits and pieces of that with Russell.
Don't worry, I didn't think you hated Nate. I just found the grouping strange. Nate has a lot of fans I think because he's one of those char… moreacters who seems to have reacted to the world falling apart by going, "Yeah, could be fun." Probably a perk of having a working truck, even if it's tires and front light got blown out.
And with Wyatt and Eddie. I mean, he's pretty crazy, but once you're classified as "his boy," he'll do crazy shit to protect and avenge you. Among the fans he and Eddie are the most popular companion characters from 400 Days, and considering Eddie seems to be on one of the Episode slides I can easily imagine them including Nate. I have no idea how he'd be sorted in, though. Not until we get a real idea of how Carver's camp functions.
Im actually anticipating that if he does appear in Season 2 like we all want to he won't be a bad guy. Can you imagine this guy watching out… more for Clem without us having to worry he's gonna put a bullet on her head ? He seems like one of those dudes that despite their fatal flaws are willing to do anything to protect his people, We saw bits and pieces of that with Russell.
As of right know it sure as hell seems Like Tavia's camp is Carver's, The fact that Bonnie comes with Tavia no matter what was done purposely on Telltale's behalf to either confirm its Indeed the same camp or confuse us for a while before realizing there's something more to it and we were fooled once again. I see Eddie being a part of some group maybe Luke finds and helps Clementine escape from Carver, as for Nate... That's a tough one I really don't have an ideal scenario for him coming back as of right know.
And with Wyatt and Eddie. I mean, he's pretty crazy, but once you're classified as "his boy," he'll do crazy shit to protect and avenge you.… more Among the fans he and Eddie are the most popular companion characters from 400 Days, and considering Eddie seems to be on one of the Episode slides I can easily imagine them including Nate. I have no idea how he'd be sorted in, though. Not until we get a real idea of how Carver's camp functions.
I recall someone claiming that the guy on the radio in 400 Days was Johnny? But yeah, with Bonnie being there it really seems that way. It gives me this inkling feeling that they're going to try to warm the player up to Carver by showing us the familiar faces from 400 Days and then using that to open the gates for Carver to turn on the charm. He'll probably paint the cabin group as thieves who left with all their medicine and food, similarly to how Roman painted Stephanie.
I don't get the people who claim Kenny killed Luke. if anything he'll probably come back and they'll finally get along while Luke tries to bust you out from Carver's camp. While I'm sad to admit it, I imagine Nate playing more of a cameo role more than an in-depth Season 2 character. On the plus side that means he'd be less likely to get chomped or shot, though.
As of right know it sure as hell seems Like Tavia's camp is Carver's, The fact that Bonnie comes with Tavia no matter what was done purposel… morey on Telltale's behalf to either confirm its Indeed the same camp or confuse us for a while before realizing there's something more to it and we were fooled once again. I see Eddie being a part of some group maybe Luke finds and helps Clementine escape from Carver, as for Nate... That's a tough one I really don't have an ideal scenario for him coming back as of right know.
I find myself shaking my head whenever I hear someone said Kenny kill Luke. Do you really think they would kill off such and important character with so much potential and time to develop like Luke just to add something else to a character who had a whole Season to develop ? It would seem pretty lazy for Telltale to just kill Luke off-Screen just for the sake of adding another dimension to Kenny's character.In my opinion what happened is When they realized Carver was there And had everyone Luke wanted to go find help or take their time to come up with a plan but we all know Ken, He wanted to act at the moment so he told Luke to " take a hike"
I recall someone claiming that the guy on the radio in 400 Days was Johnny? But yeah, with Bonnie being there it really seems that way. It g… moreives me this inkling feeling that they're going to try to warm the player up to Carver by showing us the familiar faces from 400 Days and then using that to open the gates for Carver to turn on the charm. He'll probably paint the cabin group as thieves who left with all their medicine and food, similarly to how Roman painted Stephanie.
I don't get the people who claim Kenny killed Luke. if anything he'll probably come back and they'll finally get along while Luke tries to bust you out from Carver's camp. While I'm sad to admit it, I imagine Nate playing more of a cameo role more than an in-depth Season 2 character. On the plus side that means he'd be less likely to get chomped or shot, though.
Comments
You make some great points, But you've got it all wrong. People aren't comparing Ben and Nick based on the role they play on the story, They compare them based on their actions and how they miraculously manage to fuck everything up. To say Nate,Carver, and the St. Johns actions aren't somewhat similar just like Ben's and Nick's are is just atrocious. Nate killed two people in cold blood, So did Carver, Nate is assumed to be a pedo, so is Danny St. John.
Edit: Danny St, John also killed a woman in cold blood, Jolene.
Why is Nate assumed to be a pedo? Because of the daughter comments? The daughter he clearly assumed was post-pubescent from the breast gestures? I'm not arguing over the accuracy of comparing Ben and Nick, the comparison is good for a chuckle but I like to consider characters on their own merits without grouping them together; which is why I'm bringing up that Nate, Danny St. John and Carver are all different right now.
Nate murdered two people. He shot them in cold blood and robbed them, that much is fact and you've noted it. However, the circumstances between Nate's situation and Danny St. Johns are very different. Nate saved Russell on two occasions - once from Walkers on the highway (he'll even come back if Russell insults him once seeing the Walkers) and again when he pulls Russell behind cover after he trips. We don't know if the old couple's claims about Nate and "a gang" coming to steal their food is true or not, though the fact he was driving down the road towards the gas station from an opposite direction strongly suggests otherwise - but the fact is Nate acted no worse than your average post-world bandit. If someone had flattened your tired, shot and threatened you and one of them was certain to turn anyways, why not take the shot? Nate's crime was largely a crime of opportunity, he did not go looking for people to murder and steal from.
Whereas Danny St. John and Carver both pursue trouble. Danny St. John and his brother lure survivors, LARGE NUMBERS of survivors, to their farm for the sole purpose of murdering and consuming them. I don't get where the pedophile thing comes from, cept for the creepy comment about watching children, but even if that were the case, you'd really lump Nate, hell, even Carver in with a cannibal who actively hunts people? If you're going to say it's wrong to compare characters based on actions, then don't do the very same thing with Nate, Carver and Danny St. John.
1st series:
1. Clementine
2. Lee
3. Doug
400 Days:
1.Vince
2. Russell
3. Becca
2nd series:
1.Luke
2.Carlos
3. Pete
Once again, You are getting into unimportant details that are making us go around in circles now. Nate saved Russel ? True but irrelevant to the topic. Danny and Carver's reason for comitting their crimes so to speak was a lot less understandable than Nate's ? Indeed. If we were talking about their importance to the story or trying to support their reasoning for doing such things with facts you would be totally right. Carver and Nate did the exact same thing and you're telling me its not similar, Based on the lone fact that they did it for different reasons.
"Carver and Nate did the exact same thing"
I want you to reread that and tell me how anything they did is the same. We don't know much about Carver but his motives are completely different from Nate's. I bring up other details of Nate's character because in an argument like this the only way to argue for why characters shouldn't be grouped together is to point out their differences. Would Danny St. John have picked up or helped someone he'd just met? Probably, but not without the ulterior motive of eating them. Carver? Probably, but under the condition that you remain within his group and under his laws if what we've seen so far is anything to go by. Nate, on the other hand, lets Russell walk away during the DLC or a few months later without much fuss. That alone is a better testament to his moral character and just how much he doesn't fit in with, at the very least, Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are just such radically different characters that I can't really see the logic in grouping them together. They're charismatic, amoral people is the best I can say - but even then there's just not enough about Carver that we know yet.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore? That it's wrong to group characters together (when it suits you) or that Nate, Danny and Carver are all the same? Do you not see as how contradictory your points are coming across as?
Carver shot two people in the head in less than Two minutes, Nate did the same. " How did Carver and Nate do the same thing ?" Unless you are assuming Im saying they each killed two people the same age, Which I would understand since Nate's victims were an old couple, I don't find it in me to understand your reasoning or any of the points you're making, Sorry. If We keep on discussing the points you made we will probably end up having to count who killed more people. Nice chat, But none of the things you said were realistic enough to make me change my opinion.
So you concede that your arguments are completely contradictory? One minute you say not to compare two characters and then precede to compare three characters who have even less in common? I can accept that false equivalence is a pretty weak argument, sure. I could have accepted if you just stuck to the Carver and Nate comparison, even though they're nothing alike in terms of personality or motives - but where the hell did Danny St. John come from?
Like I said before, Thanks in large part to you providing unimportant details that have nothing to do with this the argument is now going around in circles. You're in denial, You keep bringing up the fact that their reasons for doing what they did are different which I agreed with you about 15 sentences ago, You keep saying they didn't do a similar thing when I already explained to you with lots of details how they are. Unless I was a 5 years old child who can be easily fooled with overused facts and mindblowing statements its impossible to agree with you.
Here's the thing, though. Your argument was that Carver, Nate and Danny St. John were comparable while simultaneously claiming that comparing Nick and Ben was inaccurate. We aren't even going in circles because you already agreed that their motives are different so to compare them is a huge fallacy. You can file all types of killing people in a post-apocalyptic world into one category, but that's terribly black and white and a huge disservice to complex characters. I can't imagine not being able to enjoy and recognize the broad personality traits of different characters.
I'm not even going to touch "overused facts and mindblowing statements" because I've never seen so many words used that still managed to say absolutely nothing.
1) Clem/Lee
2) Molly
3)Lily
You basically got into an argument without even knowing the other guy's position. Inever said I was against people comparing Ben and Nick, I said Im against people like you failing to recognize and/or admit those same similarities with other characters just cause they like him like you with your Nate avatar , You refused to admit those same similarities after basically rubbing it in my face that Nick and Ben are like the other's shadow. Sorry but in my world your points make no sense and that's as far as this argument needs to go.
On a little P.S : Im not the one downvoting you just in case you wanted start another argument all over just because you assume its me.
You're preemptively defending yourself against something that you would be incapable of doing (unless you have the magical ability to downvote a single post more than once) with the expectation that I actually care about the upvoting and downvoting system.
Anyways, you said, "You can't just sort all categories of screw ups in one folder." if I'm to quote directly. You then turned and sorted all categories of murderers into one categories. Or was it a pedophile angle you were going for? Morality, maybe? Or just some concept of who was actually losing their grip on sanity in TWD universe? I mean you were kind of vague in just what made you lump Danny, Nate and Carver together. If you were going just for the fact they killed in cold blood, then that groups going to have to be a lot bigger. I never compared Nick or Ben beyond the fact that they're the inexperienced kids of their group if we're speaking base archetypes. I admit that if you look at actions in the most black and white sense, then you'll find those similarities; but it's the sort of situation where you have to actively be trying to find a reason to lump them together to find. Motives alone were so vastly different between those three characters that they aren't even in the same group. And for the record, I actually really like Carver (hell, he's voiced by a guy who was not only in Reservoir Dogs but also a voice of my favorite character in Dishonored), but if he's going to be sorted into some group with other characters it should be for something far less catch-all then, "he murders people".
The last two or three times I felt like you didn't even read my answer, If you would've told me before this all started that you're either okay with these comparisons or completely against them this whole discussion could've been avoided. But it just feels like hipocrisy that you constantly bring up the similarities between Nick and Ben but fail to see those of different characters, One of them is ironically your avatar and you refuse to admit his negative traits. Sorry If Im mistaking you but at this point in the conversation it just feels like you are purposely refusing to admit some of your favorite character's flaws.
Woah, woah dude, you're equating me with the loads of people here. And hell, I love flawed characters. I'll gladly tell you that Nick and Ben are huge fuck ups but hey, I kept Ben around to give him that redemption he so desperately wanted (and because he was just a kid, and Clementine's friend), and I told Walter Nick was a good person. I spend a lot of time shitting on characters... verbally, I mean, but generally there isn't a character in TWD I don't like or at least appreciate for their writing. That said, I admitted pretty early on that Nate was a murderer with little, if any morality. I'm just saying that I can understand WHY people would compare Ben to Nick. I just don't really see how you can make that association between Nate, Carver and Danny St. John. Carver and Nate are sort of situationional assholes, whereas Danny is a straight up piece of trash. I mean.. what are Nate's negative traits? So far he has more positive one's than Carver, despite being an attempted (Wyatt and Eddie) and a confirmed murderer. Carver is just one hell of a mystery right now, though I digress because I'm getting way off point here. All TWD characters have positive and negative traits, the fact people can argue about them so much is a testament to the character writing yaddayaddayadda.
End of story, I see a resemblance between Nate and Carver that apparantly you don't.. And you know what's the good thing about it ? You don't have to. That's the beautiful thing about this game and its characters people can see them in many different ways and feel completely different about them compared to others. This was a nice discussion though, Both made good points that the other just happened to disagree with.
Well now that that's over with.
Haha oh shit take my like for the awesome picture ! Let me clarify this for you just in case you got confused amodst the argument, I love Nate as well despite him being a sociopath for the most part Im one of the few who thinks he has a brighter side we haven't seen yet.
Don't worry, I didn't think you hated Nate. I just found the grouping strange. Nate has a lot of fans I think because he's one of those characters who seems to have reacted to the world falling apart by going, "Yeah, could be fun." Probably a perk of having a working truck, even if it's tires and front light got blown out.
Im actually anticipating that if he does appear in Season 2 like we all want to he won't be a bad guy. Can you imagine this guy watching out for Clem without us having to worry he's gonna put a bullet on her head ? He seems like one of those dudes that despite their fatal flaws are willing to do anything to protect his people, We saw bits and pieces of that with Russell.
And with Wyatt and Eddie. I mean, he's pretty crazy, but once you're classified as "his boy," he'll do crazy shit to protect and avenge you. Among the fans he and Eddie are the most popular companion characters from 400 Days, and considering Eddie seems to be on one of the Episode slides I can easily imagine them including Nate. I have no idea how he'd be sorted in, though. Not until we get a real idea of how Carver's camp functions.
As of right know it sure as hell seems Like Tavia's camp is Carver's, The fact that Bonnie comes with Tavia no matter what was done purposely on Telltale's behalf to either confirm its Indeed the same camp or confuse us for a while before realizing there's something more to it and we were fooled once again. I see Eddie being a part of some group maybe Luke finds and helps Clementine escape from Carver, as for Nate... That's a tough one I really don't have an ideal scenario for him coming back as of right know.
Most hated character... right now, BONNIE. That bitch has got to go!
I recall someone claiming that the guy on the radio in 400 Days was Johnny? But yeah, with Bonnie being there it really seems that way. It gives me this inkling feeling that they're going to try to warm the player up to Carver by showing us the familiar faces from 400 Days and then using that to open the gates for Carver to turn on the charm. He'll probably paint the cabin group as thieves who left with all their medicine and food, similarly to how Roman painted Stephanie.
I don't get the people who claim Kenny killed Luke. if anything he'll probably come back and they'll finally get along while Luke tries to bust you out from Carver's camp. While I'm sad to admit it, I imagine Nate playing more of a cameo role more than an in-depth Season 2 character. On the plus side that means he'd be less likely to get chomped or shot, though.
I find myself shaking my head whenever I hear someone said Kenny kill Luke. Do you really think they would kill off such and important character with so much potential and time to develop like Luke just to add something else to a character who had a whole Season to develop ? It would seem pretty lazy for Telltale to just kill Luke off-Screen just for the sake of adding another dimension to Kenny's character.In my opinion what happened is When they realized Carver was there And had everyone Luke wanted to go find help or take their time to come up with a plan but we all know Ken, He wanted to act at the moment so he told Luke to " take a hike"
Lee & Clem are a given, so I'm not going to include them on my list.