It was the trigger, yes, but if we're looking for an overall cause/intention, then no it wasn't
I would say what caused her to shoot Carley was her overall paranoia and sense that everyone hates her, brought asbout by her fragile mental condition after her father was brutally killed in front of her.
Well, yeah, she kind of did. It was escalating the entire time, but Carley dissing her is what cause her to completely snap. The straw that … morebroke the camels back if you will. Lilly was a scared little girl with a gun. It takes a big man (or woman) to pull a trigger doesn't it
I personally like kenny better, he did make some strange decisions but he had his reasons, I hate lilly because she shot carley in my playthrough, but I want lilly to return because I want to see her and kenny interact more
2? Lilly killed one innocent person.... Just, that one person changes depending on whether you have Doug or Carley with you.
Yes, Carley pissed her off, but she was still suspecting Carley and Ben of stealing supplies and she was right about how stealing supplies is like killing the group. And what do you know, she was right, someone was stealing supplies.
Also, if you have Doug with you, she means to shoot Ben, but Doug tries to pull Ben out of the way and gets hit.
Lilly shoots someone because she's depressed, on edge, alone and most of all, right. She didn't kill because someone did something stupid, she killed because someone betrayed the group. She did what she thought was best for the group. She shouldn't have, but quite a lot of the characters in the games have done things they shouldn't have. You say "she killed 2 innocent people for no other reason than her being pissed off, or her thinking someone did something stupid". Actually, she kills one innocent person and accuses one guilty person, who is actually the one who got two people killed. That's right, Ben's killed more innocent people than Lilly. Katjaa and Duck died because of Ben giving the bandits supplies and being a shitty guard.
Kenny, on the other hand, killed Larry while he might have still been alive. I never noticed anyone bothering to check his pulse. He was also completely inconsiderate of Lilly's feelings and because of that, she got to watch her possibly still alive father's head smashed right in front of her. That definitely could have caused her some severe mental trauma, to add on top of the pressure she already felt to keep the group safe and organized as a self-proclaimed leader. Then on top of that Carley has the nerve to mouth off to her while she's trying to keep the group safe, if you had Carley with you, that is. She seemed to immediately regret her decision of shooting someone, though, showing she's not a bad person.
Neither of them were completely right or wrong for what they did, but in the end, Lilly was the only one who saw how dangerous a thief can be, while everyone saw how dangerous a zombie Larry can be, so Lilly is the one everyone hates. It's understandable to like or dislike either of them, in my opinion, but neither of them are bad people.
One last thing. Lilly didn't want to kill Ben. She wasn't intending on killing anyone, but people pushed her. You can get him to all but admit to stealing the supplies but he still refuses to cooperate. All Lilly asks of him is that he admits he stole the supplies and he refuses to, even when it's clear he did. Don't believe me? Here's a quote. "Ben, just tell her!" "No! She'll kick me out of the group!" That both shows Ben pretty much admitting to stealing the supplies and being aware that Lilly's intentions weren't to kill him.
" Now, Lilly killed a LIVING person. She was trying to protect her self and her group, just like Kenny was,only she was quite depressed and … moreon edge. "
Lilly didn't try to protect herself and her group. Lilly killed Carley because she pissed her off and she wanted to kill Ben for no other reason than her believing that he is the one who gave the bandits supplies. The group wasn't in any sort of danger in this situation. Lilly went crazy out of pain and sorrow and killed 2 innocent persons!
Kenny on the other hand, tryed to protect his family and himself. They were traped in a small meatlocker without any ways to protect themselfes and a dead Larry who was probaply going to turn very soon. His family was captured by crazy cannibal's, that were planing to do god knows what horrible things to them, so they didn't have the time to discuss the whole situation, because they were in a hurry.
" So, Kenny and Lilly both had good reasons for wh… [view original content]
I agree with that, but it wasn't the "debatable" part I was referring to. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to care for everyone in a group as much as the others. Picking favorites is a natural part of life. It's why family is so important and why (usually) we limit ourselves to one life partner.
You're right actuallyit is debateable that he was trying to do what was best. I mean, he focused on his family way more than the group (naturally) and I feel that he cared far more about specific people than the group as a whole.
Alright. If we are looking for the cause/intention then we can just as easily trace it back to evolution or God (depending on your religious views). What was pointed out was the concrete, defining moment that caused Lilly to snap. All of those things, and many more, may have attributed to her decision to shoot, but none of them caused her to shoot anyone. In the end she shot Carley for a rather on the nose comment.
It was the trigger, yes, but if we're looking for an overall cause/intention, then no it wasn't
I would say what caused her to shoot Car… moreley was her overall paranoia and sense that everyone hates her, brought asbout by her fragile mental condition after her father was brutally killed in front of her.
if were going this "indirectly killed carley/doug" path then larry killed her for not being calm when he was stuck in the locker, oh wait no it was lee's fault for finding mark in the room, wait, no it was definitely carley/doug's fault for finding the st johns on the road which led to larry's death,erm no it was definitely carley's fault for saving lee clem and kenny's family back in episode 1 #sarcasm. you see what i mean here? you can't indirectly accuse someone of killing someone because it just leads to more indirect stuff and never ends. it is completely lilly's fault for shooting someone in the group she is thought to be the leader of by some people, kenny can be forgiven because he had an excuse thinking that larry would come back and kill all of them. (not to say that what kenny did is justifiable it is just more justifiable then shooting someone over making you mad)
This Kenny Vs Lilly war has to end. It's getting fucking old and frankly who cares at this point? We have debated this whole thing to death and no one is going to change their minds and agree with each other. Let it go guys...
Did they have belts? Did they have anything? I'm not saying he shouldn't have let them try to revive him, hell one walker is hardly a problem especially with a viable weapon nearby (saltlicks), but the conclusion Kenny came to isn't outlandish, especially in the heat of the moment with his wife and kid on the line outside, and perhaps the safety of the group on the line in the locker. Plus let's by honest.... Larry was a dick.
I guess I will take some down votes also. Im sorry but Kenny is a total dick.
At the farm when you have the choice to save Hershel's son … moreor Kenny's son, after you pick Kenny's son rather then help save Hershel's son Kenny just ditches without even trying.
In the Larry situation Kenny lost his head. With the number of people they had, Larry could of been easily detained while Lilly preformed CPR. By binding his arms in front of him with a belt and binding his legs with another belt with a salt lick near by just in case he did turn. And if you choose to help Lilly in that scene Kenny say's "YOUR FUCKING WORTHLESS LEE!" and smashes Larry's head in front of Lilly and Clementine throwing his humanity away.
I still sympathize with Kenny though I knew during season one there had to be repercussions for his actions but damn the death of his whole family was pretty harsh.
Who knows maybe Kenny and Lilly are Destined to off each other while we pick a side. The dispute seems still open.
Alright. If we are looking for the cause/intention then we can just as easily trace it back to evolution or God (depending on your religious… more views). What was pointed out was the concrete, defining moment that caused Lilly to snap. All of those things, and many more, may have attributed to her decision to shoot, but none of them caused her to shoot anyone. In the end she shot Carley for a rather on the nose comment.
But, I disagree anyway: she shot Carley, yes for the remark, but also for lot's of other combining reasons, most of which came from Kenny slaughtering her father gruesomely in front of her.
If that stuff hadn't happened, then Lilly wouldn't shoot Carley for that remark, and so it can't have been the sole cause.
Alright. If we are looking for the cause/intention then we can just as easily trace it back to evolution or God (depending on your religious… more views). What was pointed out was the concrete, defining moment that caused Lilly to snap. All of those things, and many more, may have attributed to her decision to shoot, but none of them caused her to shoot anyone. In the end she shot Carley for a rather on the nose comment.
I agree with that, but it wasn't the "debatable" part I was referring to. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to care for everyone in a gr… moreoup as much as the others. Picking favorites is a natural part of life. It's why family is so important and why (usually) we limit ourselves to one life partner.
....I'm pretty sure they would have caught a glitch that happened only if you gave CPR enough times to a dying man that made him take a breath.
Besides, I'm pretty sure that the fact that his mouth moves was pointed out in one of the old Turning Dead videos, because that's how I found out about the fact that he was alive.
They don't notice other glitches. Even ones that happen regardless of choice. So why point the finger at this glitch and say they missed it, so it can't be a glitch? (If it is indeed a glitch. I'm not saying it is, I'm saying that's what it looked like)
I saw it on the forum a long time ago. Never heard of turning dead, what's that?
....I'm pretty sure they would have caught a glitch that happened only if you gave CPR enough times to a dying man that made him take a brea… moreth.
Besides, I'm pretty sure that the fact that his mouth moves was pointed out in one of the old Turning Dead videos, because that's how I found out about the fact that he was alive.
Kenny killing Larry was a saftey issue. Lilly executed a character loved by gamers that turned out to be an innocent person. Preemptive strike versus cold blooded execution. Pick your choice..
Besides Larry brought his whole heart episode on by not being able to calm him self. He put him self, Lilly, Lee, Clem and Kenny in danger.
I don't like Lilly but I like Kenny more than I like her. I guess this is because Lilly killed Carley which was a love interest of Lee and Kenny had killed Larry, although I chose to help try and save Larry, I didn't like Larry. "Awww, damn you Kenny for killing the most hated character of TWDG" - Said no one ever.
I thought reductio ad absurdum was a fine way to illustrate that while those things may have added to her crazed state they were not the events that broke her. That event lies solely with Carley's comment.
Take cutting a piece of wood for example. No matter how many times you cut the board it is not cut until the last slice. You can saw 3/4 the way through the board and leave it, but that doesn't mean you finished cutting the board through.
Reductio ad absurdum isn't necessary.
But, I disagree anyway: she shot Carley, yes for the remark, but also for lot's of other combining … morereasons, most of which came from Kenny slaughtering her father gruesomely in front of her.
If that stuff hadn't happened, then Lilly wouldn't shoot Carley for that remark, and so it can't have been the sole cause.
I wonder what would have happened had it been Katjaa instead of Larry that got a saltlick dropped on the head.
Somehow I think Kenny would not have been quite as forgiving as Lilly was.
Did they have belts? Did they have anything? I'm not saying he shouldn't have let them try to revive him, hell one walker is hardly a proble… morem especially with a viable weapon nearby (saltlicks), but the conclusion Kenny came to isn't outlandish, especially in the heat of the moment with his wife and kid on the line outside, and perhaps the safety of the group on the line in the locker. Plus let's by honest.... Larry was a dick.
Dear Larry fans. Larry would salt lick his own head to save his daughter/make 100% sure she's alive(even if there was a chance he wasn't going to turn). So as Larry fans you should understand the kill Larry decision because it is what Larry would do. If he were the player controlling Lee, he would say "Off with my head!" with royal charm coming out of his ass.
She didn't regret killing Carley that was just cold blood
Yeah Carley mouthed off to her because in her mind lily was pointing fingers at people when it was possible it was somebody else (maybe even someone from another group)
A good person she sold out the last person she could trust (lee determinately) because she knew there would be consequences
And let's not forget what happens if you decided to bring her along (even when you sided with her all the time)
Yeah they didn't check for a pulse them again he almost died the last time he had a heart attack except this time there were no pills and he passed out and could've been dead (or by a slim chance alive) do you think lily would've hesitated to kill kenny in front of his son if kenny had a heart attack
While ben was the one that did it do you remember this "you have until kenny takes care of that walker to say it was her and not you"
I see you opinion and I would've agreed if
A) she didnt reveal your past she leaves you (and clementine) and the rest of everybody pretty much for dead
2? Lilly killed one innocent person.... Just, that one person changes depending on whether you have Doug or Carley with you.
Yes, Carle… morey pissed her off, but she was still suspecting Carley and Ben of stealing supplies and she was right about how stealing supplies is like killing the group. And what do you know, she was right, someone was stealing supplies.
Also, if you have Doug with you, she means to shoot Ben, but Doug tries to pull Ben out of the way and gets hit.
Lilly shoots someone because she's depressed, on edge, alone and most of all, right. She didn't kill because someone did something stupid, she killed because someone betrayed the group. She did what she thought was best for the group. She shouldn't have, but quite a lot of the characters in the games have done things they shouldn't have. You say "she killed 2 innocent people for no other reason than her being pissed off, or her thinking someone did something stupi… [view original content]
I thought reductio ad absurdum was a fine way to illustrate that while those things may have added to her crazed state they were not the eve… morents that broke her. That event lies solely with Carley's comment.
Take cutting a piece of wood for example. No matter how many times you cut the board it is not cut until the last slice. You can saw 3/4 the way through the board and leave it, but that doesn't mean you finished cutting the board through.
Ugh, I hope you're being sarcastic. If you're being honest.... well I'd love to see some proof. After all there thousands of years of history in which we have evidence of people killing people without guns, but very few/no accounts of a gun killing a person with no influence from a person.
She thought Carley was a threat. To Lilly, being a murderer and a thief is just the same. Remember the conversation in her room? She thought Carley was stealing. She thought Carley was a threat.
How many times will I have to say this? Lilly had a reason. A big reason. It's very debatable whether or not she's good after her actions, but she had a clear reason, which is reasonable from Lilly's perspective. Remember that part when you respond, friend.
but kenny did not kill larry cause he wanted too he killed him for the safety of the group lily on the other hand had no reason to kill carl… moreey, kenny might be crazy in season 2 but not in season 1 he was just doing what was best for the group and you know it
Ugh, I hope you're being sarcastic. If you're being honest.... well I'd love to see some proof. After all there thousands of years of histor… morey in which we have evidence of people killing people without guns, but very few/no accounts of a gun killing a person with no influence from a person.
Yoy need the link to the gif (Google images link, imgr or whatever, etc) and then you need to enter the link by typing it into the bar after hitting the button on the too left of a reply box (where you find the bold and italics buttons). It's either the earth symbol or the portrait symbol, but I'm not sure which. I haven't ever poster a picture of gif, so this is all hearsay
Comments
It was the trigger, yes, but if we're looking for an overall cause/intention, then no it wasn't
I would say what caused her to shoot Carley was her overall paranoia and sense that everyone hates her, brought asbout by her fragile mental condition after her father was brutally killed in front of her.
I personally like kenny better, he did make some strange decisions but he had his reasons, I hate lilly because she shot carley in my playthrough, but I want lilly to return because I want to see her and kenny interact more
2? Lilly killed one innocent person.... Just, that one person changes depending on whether you have Doug or Carley with you.
Yes, Carley pissed her off, but she was still suspecting Carley and Ben of stealing supplies and she was right about how stealing supplies is like killing the group. And what do you know, she was right, someone was stealing supplies.
Also, if you have Doug with you, she means to shoot Ben, but Doug tries to pull Ben out of the way and gets hit.
Lilly shoots someone because she's depressed, on edge, alone and most of all, right. She didn't kill because someone did something stupid, she killed because someone betrayed the group. She did what she thought was best for the group. She shouldn't have, but quite a lot of the characters in the games have done things they shouldn't have. You say "she killed 2 innocent people for no other reason than her being pissed off, or her thinking someone did something stupid". Actually, she kills one innocent person and accuses one guilty person, who is actually the one who got two people killed. That's right, Ben's killed more innocent people than Lilly. Katjaa and Duck died because of Ben giving the bandits supplies and being a shitty guard.
Kenny, on the other hand, killed Larry while he might have still been alive. I never noticed anyone bothering to check his pulse. He was also completely inconsiderate of Lilly's feelings and because of that, she got to watch her possibly still alive father's head smashed right in front of her. That definitely could have caused her some severe mental trauma, to add on top of the pressure she already felt to keep the group safe and organized as a self-proclaimed leader. Then on top of that Carley has the nerve to mouth off to her while she's trying to keep the group safe, if you had Carley with you, that is. She seemed to immediately regret her decision of shooting someone, though, showing she's not a bad person.
Neither of them were completely right or wrong for what they did, but in the end, Lilly was the only one who saw how dangerous a thief can be, while everyone saw how dangerous a zombie Larry can be, so Lilly is the one everyone hates. It's understandable to like or dislike either of them, in my opinion, but neither of them are bad people.
One last thing. Lilly didn't want to kill Ben. She wasn't intending on killing anyone, but people pushed her. You can get him to all but admit to stealing the supplies but he still refuses to cooperate. All Lilly asks of him is that he admits he stole the supplies and he refuses to, even when it's clear he did. Don't believe me? Here's a quote. "Ben, just tell her!" "No! She'll kick me out of the group!" That both shows Ben pretty much admitting to stealing the supplies and being aware that Lilly's intentions weren't to kill him.
Yes. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a glitch.
Hell, Avery Johnson is still alive in my halo universe.
I agree with that, but it wasn't the "debatable" part I was referring to. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to care for everyone in a group as much as the others. Picking favorites is a natural part of life. It's why family is so important and why (usually) we limit ourselves to one life partner.
Alright. If we are looking for the cause/intention then we can just as easily trace it back to evolution or God (depending on your religious views). What was pointed out was the concrete, defining moment that caused Lilly to snap. All of those things, and many more, may have attributed to her decision to shoot, but none of them caused her to shoot anyone. In the end she shot Carley for a rather on the nose comment.
if were going this "indirectly killed carley/doug" path then larry killed her for not being calm when he was stuck in the locker, oh wait no it was lee's fault for finding mark in the room, wait, no it was definitely carley/doug's fault for finding the st johns on the road which led to larry's death,erm no it was definitely carley's fault for saving lee clem and kenny's family back in episode 1 #sarcasm. you see what i mean here? you can't indirectly accuse someone of killing someone because it just leads to more indirect stuff and never ends. it is completely lilly's fault for shooting someone in the group she is thought to be the leader of by some people, kenny can be forgiven because he had an excuse thinking that larry would come back and kill all of them. (not to say that what kenny did is justifiable it is just more justifiable then shooting someone over making you mad)
lol it's his mustache were talking about season 1 here
This Kenny Vs Lilly war has to end. It's getting fucking old and frankly who cares at this point? We have debated this whole thing to death and no one is going to change their minds and agree with each other. Let it go guys...
Did they have belts? Did they have anything? I'm not saying he shouldn't have let them try to revive him, hell one walker is hardly a problem especially with a viable weapon nearby (saltlicks), but the conclusion Kenny came to isn't outlandish, especially in the heat of the moment with his wife and kid on the line outside, and perhaps the safety of the group on the line in the locker. Plus let's by honest.... Larry was a dick.
You know what?
People don't kill people.
Guns kill people.
I think Lily and Kenny are same but with different ideas causing them to clash.
People don't kill people. Guns kill people.
I beg to differ
Ok.
http://static.tumblr.com/2e35e668430d3b7193c68423174c249a/bumm8vd/c3tmklsrz/tumblr_static_bambi.gif
I mean, you weren't being serious about guns killing people were you?
Reductio ad absurdum isn't necessary.
But, I disagree anyway: she shot Carley, yes for the remark, but also for lot's of other combining reasons, most of which came from Kenny slaughtering her father gruesomely in front of her.
If that stuff hadn't happened, then Lilly wouldn't shoot Carley for that remark, and so it can't have been the sole cause.
I know it wasn't, I was being facetious.
....I'm pretty sure they would have caught a glitch that happened only if you gave CPR enough times to a dying man that made him take a breath.
Besides, I'm pretty sure that the fact that his mouth moves was pointed out in one of the old Turning Dead videos, because that's how I found out about the fact that he was alive.
I figured.
They don't notice other glitches. Even ones that happen regardless of choice. So why point the finger at this glitch and say they missed it, so it can't be a glitch? (If it is indeed a glitch. I'm not saying it is, I'm saying that's what it looked like)
I saw it on the forum a long time ago. Never heard of turning dead, what's that?
Kenny killing Larry was a saftey issue. Lilly executed a character loved by gamers that turned out to be an innocent person. Preemptive strike versus cold blooded execution. Pick your choice..
Besides Larry brought his whole heart episode on by not being able to calm him self. He put him self, Lilly, Lee, Clem and Kenny in danger.
I don't like Lilly but I like Kenny more than I like her. I guess this is because Lilly killed Carley which was a love interest of Lee and Kenny had killed Larry, although I chose to help try and save Larry, I didn't like Larry. "Awww, damn you Kenny for killing the most hated character of TWDG" - Said no one ever.
I thought reductio ad absurdum was a fine way to illustrate that while those things may have added to her crazed state they were not the events that broke her. That event lies solely with Carley's comment.
Take cutting a piece of wood for example. No matter how many times you cut the board it is not cut until the last slice. You can saw 3/4 the way through the board and leave it, but that doesn't mean you finished cutting the board through.
I wonder what would have happened had it been Katjaa instead of Larry that got a saltlick dropped on the head.
Somehow I think Kenny would not have been quite as forgiving as Lilly was.
Lilly never forgave Kenny or Lee.
I completely agree kenny had his reasons and I helped him kill Larry
Compared to how I imagine Kenny would have reacted Lilly was a saint of forgiveness and understanding.
Katjaa wasn't an asshole though. Remember when Larry tried to kill you?
Dear Larry fans. Larry would salt lick his own head to save his daughter/make 100% sure she's alive(even if there was a chance he wasn't going to turn). So as Larry fans you should understand the kill Larry decision because it is what Larry would do. If he were the player controlling Lee, he would say "Off with my head!" with royal charm coming out of his ass.
She didn't regret killing Carley that was just cold blood
she leaves you (and clementine) and the rest of everybody pretty much for dead
Yeah Carley mouthed off to her because in her mind lily was pointing fingers at people when it was possible it was somebody else (maybe even someone from another group)
A good person she sold out the last person she could trust (lee determinately) because she knew there would be consequences
And let's not forget what happens if you decided to bring her along (even when you sided with her all the time)
Yeah they didn't check for a pulse them again he almost died the last time he had a heart attack except this time there were no pills and he passed out and could've been dead (or by a slim chance alive) do you think lily would've hesitated to kill kenny in front of his son if kenny had a heart attack
While ben was the one that did it do you remember this "you have until kenny takes care of that walker to say it was her and not you"
I see you opinion and I would've agreed if
A) she didnt reveal your past
I don't see what that has to do with anything.
Lilly loved her dad regardless of how much of a dick he was.
Cool.
AND YES IM BEING SERIOUS ABOUT GUNS KILLING PEOPLE!!!
Ugh, I hope you're being sarcastic. If you're being honest.... well I'd love to see some proof. After all there thousands of years of history in which we have evidence of people killing people without guns, but very few/no accounts of a gun killing a person with no influence from a person.
She thought Carley was a threat. To Lilly, being a murderer and a thief is just the same. Remember the conversation in her room? She thought Carley was stealing. She thought Carley was a threat.
Definitely not. Shaundi is way worse. She'd say, "Lilly is just cooler because she's woman, and if you like Ken... Well... Kill yourself."
How many times will I have to say this? Lilly had a reason. A big reason. It's very debatable whether or not she's good after her actions, but she had a clear reason, which is reasonable from Lilly's perspective. Remember that part when you respond, friend.
GOD-DAMN LOGIC!!!!
Of course I'm not being serious.
Whew. You had me nervous
Oh by the way, how do you put gifs? I don't want it to be by link, you know what I'm talking about?
Yoy need the link to the gif (Google images link, imgr or whatever, etc) and then you need to enter the link by typing it into the bar after hitting the button on the too left of a reply box (where you find the bold and italics buttons). It's either the earth symbol or the portrait symbol, but I'm not sure which. I haven't ever poster a picture of gif, so this is all hearsay