A simple spontaneous exclamation like 'shit' would be a minor thing I think compared to something like 'I like to think if they were alive, they'd probably want to help you' from the first episode, an explicit statement reflecting outlook and general trust that might clash more sharply with a player's possible choice of personality or conviction for her.
Although I've entirely rejected the concept of roleplaying as Clementine and fundamentally disapproved of the idea of directly fashioning a personality for her of our own choice, still, I'll be helpful in suggesting an idea, seeing we're talking about the matter of behaviour that appears 'out of character' for a player: I remember Dragon Age II's concept of 'stacking' where the 'character' of automatically played dialogue can vary, reflecting the personality that begins to emerge from the cumulative weight of dialogue choices. That was implemented to provide some needed consistency.
It's only right to thank you for taking the time to read people's feedback and to post as a member of the company staff. Being that you're here, I'll have to follow Tobi's lead however, since it would be remiss of me not to bring this particular thread to your attention as staff members. In respect to critical feedback, it contains the most fleshed out and comprehensively worded thoughts on the subject of the protagonist from a negative standpoint and from a perspective of general dissatisfaction, and although it has failed to produce or carry forward discussions from previous threads that have discussed the topic, it was created more with the goal of having it reach the eyes of Telltale staff. Seeing that the critiques it contains are voluminous and that there exists no possibility at this current stage for the constructive or remedial suggestions those critiques are offering to have any practical bearing on the rest of the game, I am expecting no reply, but only offer the link for the sake of alerting the staff to the thread's existence and offering them my own opinions and point of view. (Seeing how first impressions count, I would suggest the third critique first, for something with stronger coherence and less impassioned.) If you or anybody else from the team will have taken from his time to read through only some of it, you have my thanks in advance.
"Use your weight and get the mods the ip ban functionality they deserve."
As favorable as this sounds, which I can agree to some extent; what if one of the nice members get banned for defending against trolls or defending friends? Good examples are you, me, GOUSTTTT, SaltLick305, etc. I mean we all fight trolls one way or another.
I am with this, but I'm thinking of the many possible events that could occur. I have to be "that guy", because I'm trying to be cautious with the outcomes.
This has been an interesting read. Thanks for sharing, at the very least it shows you are here listening to your fans (yes, your fans, you m… moreake the thing we love).
Now, all I ask is this:
Use your weight and get the mods the ip ban functionality they deserve.
The mods are not idiots. They know who they need to ban for breaking the rules, and who they should get rid of completely for breaking the rules. Rule34 posters for example, would instantly get the ip ban.
"Use your weight and get the mods the ip ban functionality they deserve."
As favorable as this sounds, which I can agree to some extent; … morewhat if one of the nice members get banned for defending against trolls or defending friends? Good examples are you, me, GOUSTTTT, SaltLick305, etc. I mean we all fight trolls one way or another.
I am with this, but I'm thinking of the many possible events that could occur. I have to be "that guy", because I'm trying to be cautious with the outcomes.
Good point. I'm just being cautious with this idea, though. Besides, I do have my urges of trolling at times myself (luckily I'm a good troll) which I try to keep at bay. Guess that's why I'm a little nervous.
The mods are not idiots. They know who they need to ban for breaking the rules, and who they should get rid of completely for breaking the rules. Rule34 posters for example, would instantly get the ip ban.
We'll see, TWAU ep3 is coming out really soon. If it's another 1.5 hour episode then i'll start worrying again. IF TWD ep3 turns out to be 1.5 hours too then i'll lose all faith in Telltale for this year and hope they do a better job next season.
Haha same here. Trolling can be so fun and rewarding at times, but I'm pretty good at keeping that ugly side down
But again, if you troll and get banned for it (laughable, the normal trolls don't even get banned) then they wouldn't give you an ip ban... unless you said something terrible and deserved it.
Good point. I'm just being cautious with this idea, though. Besides, I do have my urges of trolling at times myself (luckily I'm a good troll) which I try to keep at bay. Guess that's why I'm a little nervous.
Haha same here. Trolling can be so fun and rewarding at times, but I'm pretty good at keeping that ugly side down
But again, if you tro… morell and get banned for it (laughable, the normal trolls don't even get banned) then they wouldn't give you an ip ban... unless you said something terrible and deserved it.
Beautiful! Just might end up moving to Georgia (or there abouts) because of how much I'm enjoying it. It's a bit windy (and chilly because of it) this morning, but even now it's better than up north
Beautiful! Just might end up moving to Georgia (or there abouts) because of how much I'm enjoying it. It's a bit windy (and chilly because of it) this morning, but even now it's better than up north
A simple spontaneous exclamation like 'shit' would be a minor thing I think compared to something like 'I like to think if they were alive, … morethey'd probably want to help you' from the first episode, an explicit statement reflecting outlook and general trust that might clash more sharply with a player's possible choice of personality or conviction for her.
Although I've entirely rejected the concept of roleplaying as Clementine and fundamentally disapproved of the idea of directly fashioning a personality for her of our own choice, still, I'll be helpful in suggesting an idea, seeing we're talking about the matter of behaviour that appears 'out of character' for a player: I remember Dragon Age II's concept of 'stacking' where the 'character' of automatically played dialogue can vary, reflecting the personality that begins to emerge from the cumulative weight of dialogue choices. That was implemented to provide some needed consistency.
It… [view original content]
I think everything there was to be said, has been said. A Telltale person took notice, addressed some points made here, and maybe took into consideration what the majority was saying. We've done our part; now the episode is in their hands and we'll not see it until maybe next month. I'd say this thread has fulfilled its purpose and must now be allowed to sink.
There were a total of three people working on that scene. Ryann Weller and myself did the initial pass. Then myself and Nick Herman worked on it together. Nick was the one who took it to final though so he deserves most of the credit. He spent a lot of time making the key storytelling points sing.
Being lead chore I helped direct a lot of the scenes in 201 alongside Dennis Lennart so I really worked on lots of moments across the game. The only scene I ended up taking to final was the short one where she escapes from the shed.
BTW thanks for the complement sir. I'd be honored to work on the last scene of the game again...we'll just have to see how things play out.
That's good. I am left wondering whether that was his work on Clementine during the intense moments of the prologue scene.
At any rate, I've a hunch you might deliver the game's final scene into his hands once more. :-)
I think everything there was to be said, has been said. A Telltale person took notice, addressed some points made here, and maybe took into … moreconsideration what the majority was saying. We've done our part; now the episode is in their hands and we'll not see it until maybe next month. I'd say this thread has fulfilled its purpose and must now be allowed to sink.
Personally I think 1 hour and a half is a descent price for $5 (even cheaper if you got the season pass). Most movies are are $10 a person to see a film that's about the same length and I would rather play a new episode of the walking dead then go out and see a random movie.
Yeah I agree. I have been rather disappointed by the short length of each episode. I really wish they could make them longer. Everytime I am about to really get into it, they pull the plug. I am not saying this because i am worried i am not getting my moneys w orth, i am saying this because i think a good story needs to unfold and take its time. That really takes you into the story and characters. The 90 minute deal is not my ideal. I also wanna add that I feel like i am not doing enough. I felt Lee was just doing more stuff...
Well I can think of a few purposes for the examples listed. For instance, the one that he labeled, "The Cabin, The Morning After:" Let's say Pete doesn't have the best back. In the mornings, he has to sit for a minute, before getting up and going. He tells you to go get some things like, maybe something to bring the fish back in, new net, in case the current one is broken, or whatever he might need. This wouldn't kill the pacing in any significant way, and it would give you a bigger sense of purpose in the following scene. It would also maybe hint at the fact that Rebecca was out of her mood that she was in the night before. This way, Rebecca coming around wouldn't have seemed so quick.
Matt's house, I agree with you, probably could have given more options to talk with others characters. And the ski lodge, we actually had it… more more hub-like, but I think some play testers didn't talk to everyone and then said they didn't feel like they got to know everyone well enough, so we made some of the conversations critical path by just cut-scene-ing them.
The thing about hubs is we still need to give the player a goal and purpose. Not all players want to just wander around and talk to everyone. For example, your morning after idea - the previous scene was entirely a dialog of talking to people and getting to know them. What does opening up the cabin the next morning to walk around get you? Sure, you can talk to people and get to know them even more if you want, but what if you don't? You already snooped through all their stuff searching for supplies, and none of them really trust you enough to assign you a task.
You'll notice most… [view original content]
Love game and seeing all staff feedback just blew my mind but have few opinions on subject but after seeing staff feedback
Short Episodes
Let's make them shorter to have one sitting entertainment? If you did a pole asking gamer's if want games shorter for one-sitting entertainment don't think anyone want's that wait months for an episode then short episode I encourage the longer the better one sitting entertainment seen as better is a myth never heard anyone complain a game was ever to long lol but seen millions of complaints for being to short.
Lack of Puzzles and Hub Areas
All best games I ever played felt more immersed and in control of the story when get to play through it and actually use my ability to pass some sort of challenge then feel in control of the story and feel actually make a impact with my ability by watching series of cutscences takes me out of the story like watching someone else's story just don't feel pulled into the story.
Lack of Hub areas because have no objection to achieve more to hub areas for gamers then a will to fulfill an objective like an adventure to look around and see every inch and really appreciate whole TWD area nice get little break from story just to chill out talk to people and look around really feel part of the story playing at your own pace should be option to skip it if feel gamers don't want it majority do.
Gameplay
Love few minigames thrown in like shooting bottles or playing checkers with Sarah just mix things up from whole dialogue then QTE predictable something fresh would be cool
Overall think doing quality job
Just please more hub areas and puzzles look at example of Heavy rain to Beyond Two Souls they went down more cutscene less challenge road and ends in tears
Think aim is opening the game to everyone young and old gamer or not in terms of marketing to open up the target market to everyone making game simple and linear so all can play but ignoring challenge and hub areas for minority gamers who get stuck is silly in my opinion please telltale really have potential to make a quality game if I wanna watch a film go to the cinema getting to close for comfort. Game loses all tension without challenge as never feel in trouble so story loses the extra edge without hub areas lose the immersion in story in my opinion why take away what makes you unique and better then other media's.
Overall
Think doing quality job and can't wait for the remaining episodes just add puzzles, hub areas for the core fans maybe put skip option in to get over the feeling that people will get stuck massive fan of TWD and TWAU just some best games ever played
The thing is this is the first episode in the series so far that didn't feel short at all! By the time I finished the episode and went to check my steam session I was shocked to see I only spent 95 minutes on it...When It clearly felt just as long if longer than faith. It also depends on what order you do things in the episode. Just like in Faith everytime you go to a location you'll experience something different depending on where exactly you go. Hell I only saw 2 out of 3 locations. And If I took another route in the episode it would either be a longer experience or shorter one. Episode 3 of TWAU didn't waste anytime with it's length which is why it's so brilliant!
The thing is this is the first episode in the series so far that didn't feel short at all! By the time I finished the episode and went to ch… moreeck my steam session I was shocked to see I only spent 95 minutes on it...When It clearly felt just as long if longer than faith. It also depends on what order you do things in the episode. Just like in Faith everytime you go to a location you'll experience something different depending on where exactly you go. Hell I only saw 2 out of 3 locations. And If I took another route in the episode it would either be a longer experience or shorter one. Episode 3 of TWAU didn't waste anytime with it's length which is why it's so brilliant!
I wouldn't have a problem with the shorter game lengths if the episodes were released monthly. Waiting 2 1/2 to 3 months at a time for an hour and change worth of gameplay is frustrating, though. I don't feel the customers patience is rewarded with that release model.
Comments
Could it be possible that later episodes in season 2 will be longer?
hopefully
A simple spontaneous exclamation like 'shit' would be a minor thing I think compared to something like 'I like to think if they were alive, they'd probably want to help you' from the first episode, an explicit statement reflecting outlook and general trust that might clash more sharply with a player's possible choice of personality or conviction for her.
Although I've entirely rejected the concept of roleplaying as Clementine and fundamentally disapproved of the idea of directly fashioning a personality for her of our own choice, still, I'll be helpful in suggesting an idea, seeing we're talking about the matter of behaviour that appears 'out of character' for a player: I remember Dragon Age II's concept of 'stacking' where the 'character' of automatically played dialogue can vary, reflecting the personality that begins to emerge from the cumulative weight of dialogue choices. That was implemented to provide some needed consistency.
It's only right to thank you for taking the time to read people's feedback and to post as a member of the company staff. Being that you're here, I'll have to follow Tobi's lead however, since it would be remiss of me not to bring this particular thread to your attention as staff members. In respect to critical feedback, it contains the most fleshed out and comprehensively worded thoughts on the subject of the protagonist from a negative standpoint and from a perspective of general dissatisfaction, and although it has failed to produce or carry forward discussions from previous threads that have discussed the topic, it was created more with the goal of having it reach the eyes of Telltale staff. Seeing that the critiques it contains are voluminous and that there exists no possibility at this current stage for the constructive or remedial suggestions those critiques are offering to have any practical bearing on the rest of the game, I am expecting no reply, but only offer the link for the sake of alerting the staff to the thread's existence and offering them my own opinions and point of view. (Seeing how first impressions count, I would suggest the third critique first, for something with stronger coherence and less impassioned.) If you or anybody else from the team will have taken from his time to read through only some of it, you have my thanks in advance.
http://www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/62921/for-telltale-a-compendium-of-cross-constructive-criticisms-on-this-seasons-protagonist
By the way, bubbledncr, a side question seeing as you're the lead animator: is Graham Ross still active and working with you on this current season?
"Use your weight and get the mods the ip ban functionality they deserve."
As favorable as this sounds, which I can agree to some extent; what if one of the nice members get banned for defending against trolls or defending friends? Good examples are you, me, GOUSTTTT, SaltLick305, etc. I mean we all fight trolls one way or another.
I am with this, but I'm thinking of the many possible events that could occur. I have to be "that guy", because I'm trying to be cautious with the outcomes.
Could be, as it seems quite possible in In Harms way.
The mods are not idiots. They know who they need to ban for breaking the rules, and who they should get rid of completely for breaking the rules. Rule34 posters for example, would instantly get the ip ban.
Good point. I'm just being cautious with this idea, though. Besides, I do have my urges of trolling at times myself (luckily I'm a good troll) which I try to keep at bay. Guess that's why I'm a little nervous.
We'll see, TWAU ep3 is coming out really soon. If it's another 1.5 hour episode then i'll start worrying again. IF TWD ep3 turns out to be 1.5 hours too then i'll lose all faith in Telltale for this year and hope they do a better job next season.
Haha same here. Trolling can be so fun and rewarding at times, but I'm pretty good at keeping that ugly side down
But again, if you troll and get banned for it (laughable, the normal trolls don't even get banned) then they wouldn't give you an ip ban... unless you said something terrible and deserved it.
Hehe true. Thing is I do kinda go overboard at times. Partial insanity is to blame. By the way, when are you going for your vacation?
Im going on vacation -30 hours ago
XD Enjoying yourself? How is it?
Beautiful! Just might end up moving to Georgia (or there abouts) because of how much I'm enjoying it. It's a bit windy (and chilly because of it) this morning, but even now it's better than up north
Sweet! Make's me wonder if there's actually a mansion that looks like the one we were holed up in at Savannah.
Yep he is.
That looks like quite a long read, but I will try to peruse is when I have some time.
Thank you, and please feel no pressure to respond or to read more than you're inclined to.
That's good. I am left wondering whether that was his work on Clementine during the intense moments of the prologue scene.
At any rate, I've a hunch you might deliver the game's final scene into his hands once more. :-)
bump
I think everything there was to be said, has been said. A Telltale person took notice, addressed some points made here, and maybe took into consideration what the majority was saying. We've done our part; now the episode is in their hands and we'll not see it until maybe next month. I'd say this thread has fulfilled its purpose and must now be allowed to sink.
There were a total of three people working on that scene. Ryann Weller and myself did the initial pass. Then myself and Nick Herman worked on it together. Nick was the one who took it to final though so he deserves most of the credit. He spent a lot of time making the key storytelling points sing.
Being lead chore I helped direct a lot of the scenes in 201 alongside Dennis Lennart so I really worked on lots of moments across the game. The only scene I ended up taking to final was the short one where she escapes from the shed.
BTW thanks for the complement sir. I'd be honored to work on the last scene of the game again...we'll just have to see how things play out.
Indeed. Thanks for the feedback everybody. Wish I had more time these days to check the forums.
The Telltale Staff is finally becoming more active.
Personally I think 1 hour and a half is a descent price for $5 (even cheaper if you got the season pass). Most movies are are $10 a person to see a film that's about the same length and I would rather play a new episode of the walking dead then go out and see a random movie.
Bumping this thread because TWAU ep3 was really short
define short less than 90 minutes ?
i clocked ep3 at 1 hour 40 ish
and it felt whole for me, the ending was natural not a sudden cut off.
Yeah I agree. I have been rather disappointed by the short length of each episode. I really wish they could make them longer. Everytime I am about to really get into it, they pull the plug. I am not saying this because i am worried i am not getting my moneys w orth, i am saying this because i think a good story needs to unfold and take its time. That really takes you into the story and characters. The 90 minute deal is not my ideal. I also wanna add that I feel like i am not doing enough. I felt Lee was just doing more stuff...
Well, ok! Let's discuss what A Crooked Mile did right (or wrong) about its length, then.
Well I can think of a few purposes for the examples listed. For instance, the one that he labeled, "The Cabin, The Morning After:" Let's say Pete doesn't have the best back. In the mornings, he has to sit for a minute, before getting up and going. He tells you to go get some things like, maybe something to bring the fish back in, new net, in case the current one is broken, or whatever he might need. This wouldn't kill the pacing in any significant way, and it would give you a bigger sense of purpose in the following scene. It would also maybe hint at the fact that Rebecca was out of her mood that she was in the night before. This way, Rebecca coming around wouldn't have seemed so quick.
Love game and seeing all staff feedback just blew my mind but have few opinions on subject but after seeing staff feedback
Short Episodes
Let's make them shorter to have one sitting entertainment? If you did a pole asking gamer's if want games shorter for one-sitting entertainment don't think anyone want's that wait months for an episode then short episode I encourage the longer the better one sitting entertainment seen as better is a myth never heard anyone complain a game was ever to long lol but seen millions of complaints for being to short.
Lack of Puzzles and Hub Areas
All best games I ever played felt more immersed and in control of the story when get to play through it and actually use my ability to pass some sort of challenge then feel in control of the story and feel actually make a impact with my ability by watching series of cutscences takes me out of the story like watching someone else's story just don't feel pulled into the story.
Lack of Hub areas because have no objection to achieve more to hub areas for gamers then a will to fulfill an objective like an adventure to look around and see every inch and really appreciate whole TWD area nice get little break from story just to chill out talk to people and look around really feel part of the story playing at your own pace should be option to skip it if feel gamers don't want it majority do.
Gameplay
Love few minigames thrown in like shooting bottles or playing checkers with Sarah just mix things up from whole dialogue then QTE predictable something fresh would be cool
Overall think doing quality job
Just please more hub areas and puzzles look at example of Heavy rain to Beyond Two Souls they went down more cutscene less challenge road and ends in tears
Think aim is opening the game to everyone young and old gamer or not in terms of marketing to open up the target market to everyone making game simple and linear so all can play but ignoring challenge and hub areas for minority gamers who get stuck is silly in my opinion please telltale really have potential to make a quality game if I wanna watch a film go to the cinema getting to close for comfort. Game loses all tension without challenge as never feel in trouble so story loses the extra edge without hub areas lose the immersion in story in my opinion why take away what makes you unique and better then other media's.
Overall
Think doing quality job and can't wait for the remaining episodes just add puzzles, hub areas for the core fans maybe put skip option in to get over the feeling that people will get stuck massive fan of TWD and TWAU just some best games ever played
The thing is this is the first episode in the series so far that didn't feel short at all! By the time I finished the episode and went to check my steam session I was shocked to see I only spent 95 minutes on it...When It clearly felt just as long if longer than faith. It also depends on what order you do things in the episode. Just like in Faith everytime you go to a location you'll experience something different depending on where exactly you go. Hell I only saw 2 out of 3 locations. And If I took another route in the episode it would either be a longer experience or shorter one. Episode 3 of TWAU didn't waste anytime with it's length which is why it's so brilliant!
Yeah, it felt longer. More whole, as @Milosuperspesh said.
Okay let's just say that episode 3 was "short". Was that your only problem with the episode?
episodic games disadvantages :
6 weeks are long time to wait , short time to develop.
short time gameplay.
characters movements are so weird.
sometimes they delay an episode for another 2 weeks.
episodic games advantages :
start playing the game before it fully developed
episode price is very cheap
developers collecting the previous episode's profits and use them as investment for the next episode
I'm glad that there seems to be a general consensus for wanting to see hub areas return.
More time to catch up with the characters, more exploration, and a clear path of progression for people who want to get on with the story.
Well for me it wasn't short at all
Take your time at playing it, you don't have to rush through it to get to the end in one go.
Honestly, I think 2 hours is the magic number. Wolf Among Us Episode 1 took me exactly 2 hours to complete and I absolutely loved it.
I wouldn't have a problem with the shorter game lengths if the episodes were released monthly. Waiting 2 1/2 to 3 months at a time for an hour and change worth of gameplay is frustrating, though. I don't feel the customers patience is rewarded with that release model.