Why don't people like Kenny?

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  • edited April 2014

    It was because she was pissed. That was the trigger.

    But if that trigger wouldn't have caused a murder if it happened before - and we know it wouldn't as lee can call Lilly a bitch in episode 1 without being shot - then she did it as a result of many other factors, lot's of which were brought about by her father being killed in front of her.

    Lilly also thought she was protecting the group by trying to kill Ben/killing Carley, just like Kenny did. It turned out they were both mistaken, as Carley was no threat and Larry was alive.

    And leaving Lee under the door is no way in the same thing as not helping Kenny. Lee's intent by helping Lilly was not to kill Kenny: he thought that they could all survive, which they could. However, Kenny's intent by leaving Lee under a door with 4 or 5 walkers on top can't have been to help them all survive, could it? The two are different situations.

    I'm not saying Lilly was right in any way: I think her killing Carley was much stupider than Kenny killing Larry. However, I am simply saying that what the two did is comparable, and Kenny also does shit like leave you to die just because you didn't side with him one time even though everything happened just like it would if you had sided with him.

    I like Kenny, but he is not a blameless man.

    Belan posted: »

    Lilly murdered a group member because she was pissed. She elected herself as judge, jury, and executioner. She was a dictator with no emotio

  • Not me. I've had training.

    That's my opinion too. I mean, people hate Kenny, but most of them would act exactly like him if their families were involved.

  • edited April 2014

    And hers was a 'you've had a murderer in your group for months and yet you have a go at me?'

    Something interesting to contemplate is just how similar Lilly's murder and Lee's murder were.

    I would love to have seen Katjaa continue on without Kenny: would have been a much less predicable narrative as she was always more passive, and could have led to some hugely interesting character development.

    Also another way Lilly is like kenny: after their whole family is slaughtered, they carry on doing the best they can. They both then snap, but in different ways.

    In fact, Kenny tells you to kill Ben, so maybe they really aren't different ways.

    Dragonleaf posted: »

    I think it was more of a "See what we have to do to survive here? We need to leave!" rather than a "Gonna tell everyone in the group what we

  • edited April 2014

    It certainly was, but then it is misleading to say 'She killed her because she called her a bitch'.

    I mean, for one thing Lilly even suspected her way before she said that.

    So I think saying 'She killed her because she called her a bitch' is misleading.

    I'm not saying that was te only thing I'm SAYING that that's the straw that broke the camels back

  • UGH Kenny is such a pain, and my dislike has just changed to hate. All the reasons have been listed in the thread already. I would be thrilled to kill him off in Season 2.

  • edited April 2014

    Kenny tried to leave me to die under a door before his family died.

    He tells Lee to murder Ben.

    In most playthroughs he initially refuses to help find clementine.

    If we can't give Lilly slack, then we can't give Kenny slack.

    Chase4902 posted: »

    cut Kenny some slack ok he's been threw a lot if I went threw what he did I would kill my self ok his son died right in front of him his wif

  • In Kenny's defense, he only tells Lee to kill Ben after he learns that Ben is the entire reason his family died. It would be like Lilly trying to shoot Kenny at the RV instead of anyone else because of what he did to Larry. I'd be angry, but I'd also understand why she did it.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny tried to leave me to die under a door before his family died. He tells Lee to murder Ben. In most playthroughs he initially refuses to help find clementine. If we can't give Lilly slack, then we can't give Kenny slack.

  • edited April 2014

    2.he got the only family kenny had killed
    3.why would he help you if u dont help him

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny tried to leave me to die under a door before his family died. He tells Lee to murder Ben. In most playthroughs he initially refuses to help find clementine. If we can't give Lilly slack, then we can't give Kenny slack.

    1. That does not exclude wanting someone to be murdered.

    2. There's a difference between not helping lee and leaving him to die. I didn't help kenny in the meat locker, but if I had the choice to help Kenny under the door or leave him to die, I would save him.

    Chase4902 posted: »

    2.he got the only family kenny had killed 3.why would he help you if u dont help him

  • edited April 2014

    Yeah, they were both trying to cope with the loss of their family in their own way, and in my original playthrough I chose Doug, and after Lilly shot him up she felt felt extreme guilt over her actions.

    After that I saved Ben in Episode 4, and when I told Kenny in the attic that he wanted to die he said something along the lines of:

    Lee: He wanted to die...in Crawford.

    Kenny: What's that now?

    Lee: When I had him there, in my hand...He wanted me to drop him. He asked me to.

    Kenny: Oh jesus, I'm glad it was you making that call and not me.

    They're both people who feel guilt over their actions, and it's up to the player to decide the "lesser of two evils" in a way.

    One more thing I liked about Kenny was in Episode 1 he gives you a ride and saves you no matter what, but in episodes 2-4 you start to see how much of an asshole he can be, but in Episode 5 you see that he can still be a good man under it all. (Risks his life to save a kid that indirectly killed his family, finally making amends with Lee if you butted heads with him the whole game, ect)

    It would've been neat to see how Katjaa would handle Kenny and Duck's death, but I think the whole Boatmaster 2000 plan wouldn't work because Kenny was the only one who knew how to work a boat.

    And Lilly and Lee's murders were similar, but in my opinion Lee is the only one who got redemption after it.

    Flog61 posted: »

    And hers was a 'you've had a murderer in your group for months and yet you have a go at me?' Something interesting to contemplate is just

  • I think Kenny is one of the best characters in the game, I have never hated him but I did get very bored of him thanks to the sadoes on this forum who kept posting gifs and threads about him returning, that spoiled it, well done jackoffs.

  • edited April 2014

    Really, because saying: "They would have been able Larry? What the fuck does that mean?" is totally respectful.

    I literally have no clue how you could actually take offense to what I was saying to you. I was simply explaining why your opinion is incorrect/flawed. Sorry if that upsets you.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    I didn't go nazi over a typo. I emphasized YOUR because the player can accomplish whatever they want in a life or death situation. You have a shitty attitude.

  • edited April 2014

    Lilly didn't commit murder for the sole purpose of protecting the group. The incident was very clearly anger induced. Regardless, she does not get to appoint herself judge, jury, and executioner. She doesn't get to kill off a group member just because she wants to. There was zero reason to just cut someone down like that, no matter how you want to look at the situation. What she did was terrible, and there is no other way to look at.

    You're missing the point about Kenny leaving Lee under the door. It doesn't matter why Lee did what he did in the meat locker, his actions directly put everyone in the meat locker in danger. What's important here is how Kenny saw the situation. In his view, Lee was not willing to do what was necessary to ensure the safety of the group and he was completely screwing everyone over by not helping. So going back to the door situation, why would Kenny risk his life trying to save someone who he believed was not willing to do the same for him? Really, it is so much more complicated than Kenny leaving Lee to die just because of a petty "disagreement".

    If you want to compare anything to Lilly shooting Doug/Carly in the face, compare it to the door situation. Comparing it to the Larry situation doesn't make any sense.

    Kenny certainly isn't a blameless man, depending on how you play the game. The only really bad thing that he does is leaving Lee under the door, and that is a determinant event. I suppose you could say not helping Shawn back on Hershel's farm was bad as well, though he was looking out for his family.

    Flog61 posted: »

    It was because she was pissed. That was the trigger. But if that trigger wouldn't have caused a murder if it happened before - and we kno

  • edited April 2014

    When does Kenny ever explicitly say to kill Ben? As far as I know, he simply says Ben isn't coming on the boat. He said that in a moment of extreme rage though, so who knows if he would have actually followed up on the idea.

    Flog61 posted: »

    Kenny tried to leave me to die under a door before his family died. He tells Lee to murder Ben. In most playthroughs he initially refuses to help find clementine. If we can't give Lilly slack, then we can't give Kenny slack.

    1. Why would he help you if you dont help him indeed. But then again, since you have no option but to save him and his familys life in episode 2, theres not really any argument for this is there?
    Chase4902 posted: »

    2.he got the only family kenny had killed 3.why would he help you if u dont help him

  • NOTHING was the sole purpose of her killing Carley. Lewt's just leave it as that.

    The point is that Kenny leaving lee under the door was directly showing that he didn't care whether he lived or died.

    Lee's intention by helping Larry was NOT to put the group at risk, whereas Kenny's intention by leaving him under the door WAS to put him at risk.

    Belan posted: »

    Lilly didn't commit murder for the sole purpose of protecting the group. The incident was very clearly anger induced. Regardless, she does n

  • Kartal5Kartal5 Banned
    edited April 2014

    Kenny may be a complex character, but when it all comes down to it, he is a good man.

    Kenny is and will always in my eyes be a hero, he is the only one in the whole game who in the end, even when he have lost EVERYTHING, he wi

  • edited April 2014

    but guess what he still risked his life for ben he killed ben and I respected what he did ok love him or hate him you still gotta respect Kenny for everything he done or if he go's down to get the radio for lee when he knocked it out of his hands listen Kenny helped lee many of times ok and give him credit to me its amazing that he mad it this far already after losing all he had left in this world

    Belan posted: »

    When does Kenny ever explicitly say to kill Ben? As far as I know, he simply says Ben isn't coming on the boat. He said that in a moment of extreme rage though, so who knows if he would have actually followed up on the idea.

  • You don't 'have' to respect Kenny for everything he;s done, that would remove the point of opinions.

    Chase4902 posted: »

    but guess what he still risked his life for ben he killed ben and I respected what he did ok love him or hate him you still gotta respect Ke

  • In many playthroughs when you are holding Ben.

    He also says 'I'm going to fucking Kill you' and is only stopped by people holding him back.

    He did it in a moment of rage, exactly. Just like Lilly.

    Belan posted: »

    When does Kenny ever explicitly say to kill Ben? As far as I know, he simply says Ben isn't coming on the boat. He said that in a moment of extreme rage though, so who knows if he would have actually followed up on the idea.

  • edited April 2014

    ik but im just trying to say be thankful you don't havel and ben did in my opion did deserve to dye but to repay ben he shot him in the head so he doent get eaten by walkers witch if you guys didn't know bens biggest fear is getting eaten by walkers lilly didnt have to kill carley lol look im just saying he did a lot of heroic things just be a little thankful

    Flog61 posted: »

    In many playthroughs when you are holding Ben. He also says 'I'm going to fucking Kill you' and is only stopped by people holding him back. He did it in a moment of rage, exactly. Just like Lilly.

  • edited April 2014

    There is a difference between saying hes going to kill him, and actually doing it. We don't know that he actually would have killed him had he not been restrained. People say "I'll kill you" all the time without truly meaning it. I think he probably would have beaten the crap out of him, but I doubt he would have killed him.

    When Ben is hanging from the bell tower Kenny does kind of imply that Lee should do as Ben says by dropping him, but he never demands that Lee does it or anything. He simply says "Lee" and gives a sort of "listen to him" kind of glance and walks away letting Lee decide for himself.

    Flog61 posted: »

    In many playthroughs when you are holding Ben. He also says 'I'm going to fucking Kill you' and is only stopped by people holding him back. He did it in a moment of rage, exactly. Just like Lilly.

  • edited April 2014

    Ok...? I never said anything was the sole purpose of her killing Carly/Doug. We're on the same page there. There were several reasons (as described in my previous post) for what she did, and all of them were terrible.

    I'm not arguing against whether Kenny cared if Lee died or not.. not sure why you're bringing that up. Obviously he didn't care in this situation. If he did, he wouldn't have left him under the door.

    I'll say once again, it does not matter what Lee's INTENTIONS were. What matters is how Kenny perceived his actions. Him not helping Kenny to finish off Larry directly put the group in grave danger. So regardless of his intentions, Lee put Kenny's life in direct danger. He left Kenny to fend for himself, as well as everyone else in the meat locker. Kenny saw this as Lee screwing him over. So later when Lee needed his help in a dangerous situation (door incident), he returned the favor by not lending him a hand.

    Honestly, equating any of these situations to Lilly is pretty unfair. Lilly is a horrible person no matter what you do, where as Kenny's immoral decisions are determinate.

    Flog61 posted: »

    NOTHING was the sole purpose of her killing Carley. Lewt's just leave it as that. The point is that Kenny leaving lee under the door was

  • edited April 2014

    Kenny is just a great character. I dont know why people hate him either. I am a Kenny Fan and I liked Lilly too. I was never this guy who fights about a (virtuell) person. ^^

  • I stopped giving a shit if you think what I'm saying is polite once you made it clear you don't either.

    Belan posted: »

    Really, because saying: "They would have been able Larry? What the fuck does that mean?" is totally respectful. I literally have no clue

  • You're way too touchy. Seriously, what specifically was wrong with what I was saying? I was not trying to offend you whatsoever.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    I stopped giving a shit if you think what I'm saying is polite once you made it clear you don't either.

  • PloopPloop Banned

    [removed]

  • You were simply being an asshole in tone. Let me bring up some examples.

    "Kenny would have had to be a complete moron to have taken the chances that you were expecting him to take."

    "But even after Kenny lowers his weapon, dissolves the tension, AND INVITES HIM INTO HIS HOME[...]"

    "You honestly think that would be a non issue? Are you serious? It's debatably not even possible."

    Belan posted: »

    You're way too touchy. Seriously, what specifically was wrong with what I was saying? I was not trying to offend you whatsoever.

  • What, emphasizing words to better help you understand the points I was trying to make?

    Definitely was not trying to be offensive.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    You were simply being an asshole in tone. Let me bring up some examples. "Kenny would have had to be a complete moron to have taken the c

  • The words you emphasized indicate otherwise.

    Belan posted: »

    What, emphasizing words to better help you understand the points I was trying to make? Definitely was not trying to be offensive.

  • Despite how much I hate the character, I think he's definitely well written... To an extent. The fact that he's almost the same as Lilly threw me off a lot. Other than that, I definitely sympathized with him the most. Like with Duck. Ugh, that still makes me feel sick.

    Ayrtonius posted: »

    Okay, maybe "badly written" was the wrong wording, but I don't think his character was handled in the best way. It annoyed me because he is

  • "Complete" , and "invites him into his home"? I'm really not getting how those are offensive to you.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    The words you emphasized indicate otherwise.

  • People have different opinions. He can be a dick but he can also be a good friend. So far, he's been nice to Clem.

  • They imply that you think of me as an idiot. If that isn't offensive, I don't know what is.

    Belan posted: »

    "Complete" , and "invites him into his home"? I'm really not getting how those are offensive to you.

  • edited April 2014

    Like I said before, I was doing it to emphasize/ make my points more obvious.

    I was simply saying Kenny would have had to be really stupid to do what you wanted him to do considering how he personally felt about the situation.

    I capitalized "invites him into his own home" to stress the importance of the event.

    All in all I was trying to make my arguments as easy to follow as I could. That isn't a slight to you or anyone else who was reading, I was simply trying to be as clear as possible.

    Harpadarpa posted: »

    They imply that you think of me as an idiot. If that isn't offensive, I don't know what is.

  • Alt text

    ShaneWalsh posted: »

    I think Kenny is one of the best characters in the game, I have never hated him but I did get very bored of him thanks to the sadoes on this forum who kept posting gifs and threads about him returning, that spoiled it, well done jackoffs.

  • I agree with some of those points but the match thing how would you feel if out of nowhere somebody says you and your friend looked like a "match" I'd be pretty offended not because of what he said but more of what he was implying other than that I agree with your points :)

    Belan posted: »

    It wasn't just Kenny who opened up hostilities, it was the whole Ski Lodge group. They kind of had to, in order to ensure the safety of thei

  • Except this isn't the police this is kenny do you expect him to just standby you know how he is

    "Starts a fight on Carver and his men and indirectly costs two people their lives. Or one depending on how you play it." This is very tru

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