1-3: My speculation on her motive is that it has to do with whatever Fable she is. We don't know what she was or if she is even glamoured herself at the moment. For all we know Vivian may be a witch or fairy herself, and could be capable of using her own magic. As for the denim, It must be from the accomplice should Vivian be the killer. That only really leaves Jack, and Tiny Tim. The latter of the two is more plausible seeing as Georgie was in contact with The Crooked Man before Blood Mary and the Tweedles arrived. This then means she would be tied to the Crooked Man as well and could be in contact with Tiny Tim, for a little "favor" in leaving the head and sticking around to make sure it was found. (Episode 1)
4: Again Maybe it goes back to whatever Fable she may be?
1) What would Vivan gain from killing off her friends? She is already the number one girl, what motive could she possibly have for silencing… more them? When they have already been glamored with the spell of secrets for the use of their professionalism?
2) The murder weapon is of magic origin, the only weapon fitting this description seen is Woody's axe, the donkey dagger doesn't cut it, although possibly Bluebeard's knife.
3) Unless Vivan changes into a harpy to dispose of the bodies. How did she dispose of a troll weighing so much more then herself? Somebody was cut on the fence when delivering ass girl's head (Faith). Although when as fables they heal in seconds. Wearing denim cloth leaving jean fabric behind.
4) Why are you laughing at me, or stop laughing at me, TJ had informed. When Lilly was dumped. Suggesting possibly a pair of killers or a sociopath?
Maybe out of sympathy for them, not wanting them to suffer any more. It seems like the hookers at the puddin n pie have kind of sucky lives. No pun intended. Maybe there's something else going on that Vivian doesn't want anyone to know and she kills anyone who tries to rat her out. She might have accidentally killed Lilly, then killed Faith for trying to tell the sheriff. That'd explain Nerissa's willingness to help and her nervousness.
I dunno. She stole Woody's axe or another magical item, maybe?
She probably has help. Maybe the crooked man or some of his employees are helping her or something.
We don't know for sure that Vivian isn't insane. She also probably had some kind of help, because as you pointed out, she would probably find it difficult to lift up a troll alone.
I like this theory, but I will admit it does have some holes. Mainly it's lacking in evidence(not much screen time for Vivian) imo.
1) What would Vivan gain from killing off her friends? She is already the number one girl, what motive could she possibly have for silencing… more them? When they have already been glamored with the spell of secrets for the use of their professionalism?
2) The murder weapon is of magic origin, the only weapon fitting this description seen is Woody's axe, the donkey dagger doesn't cut it, although possibly Bluebeard's knife.
3) Unless Vivan changes into a harpy to dispose of the bodies. How did she dispose of a troll weighing so much more then herself? Somebody was cut on the fence when delivering ass girl's head (Faith). Although when as fables they heal in seconds. Wearing denim cloth leaving jean fabric behind.
4) Why are you laughing at me, or stop laughing at me, TJ had informed. When Lilly was dumped. Suggesting possibly a pair of killers or a sociopath?
Great input. That is how I also took the episode title as. I really feel that you are right about Vivian killing them before they get the chance to reveal anything.
Also, I believe I said she would know where there would be at all time because of her access to the books.
Here is my input. There's heavy 'wolf and sheep' themes in some of the episode names. We all know about the wolf dressing up as a sheep an… mored what not, I assume, right?
Hookers are dying. Let's say they are sheep. So the wolf....dresses up as a sheep.... The killer being one of the hookers would make sense.
My guess is Vivian is killing the other hookers, maybe out of sympathy because they have to put up with their jobs and the no talking spell and the crooked man....all of that. The letter you mentioned supports this.
Or perhaps there's something else going on that all the girls know about, and when ever one of them wants to tell someone about it, Vivian kills them.
Maybe Nerissa knows but she can't tell anyone because of the spell. Maybe that's why Faith was killed too, for trying to tell someone. Remember that Lilly was killed before Faith(Grendel was at Bigby's office wanting to report Lilly's disappearance around when F… [view original content]
Great input. That is how I also took the episode title as. I really feel that you are right about Vivian killing them before they get the ch… moreance to reveal anything.
Also, I believe I said she would know where there would be at all time because of her access to the books.
Great work with your theory. I personally don't think that Vivian is the killer, but you definitely convinced me that she she has a major role to play in the case. Whatever the nature of her involvement will turn out to be, I think that we are at least safe to assume that Vivian was trying to frame Crane. Vivian and Nerissa probably knew that Crane was Lily's regular client and was seeing Faith as well. Nerissa also does confess that she knew that room 207 was rented by Crane. After both murders occured the other girls from Pudding n' Pie might have simply assumed that Crane was the one responsible and wanted to make sure that he won't get away with it. Or more probably Vivian had some reason (other than her being direct killer) to take this opportunity and try to frame Crane. She probably left the compromising evidence in the 207 (those cigarettes found at the crime scene seem to fit). And later she convinced Nerissa to steer Bigby there. Now, this theory obviously has some holes in it and requires much more elaboration, but is seems to me like a plausible explanation why Vivian was so determined to put the blame on Crane (maybe that was the scheme he mentioned?).
Great input. That is how I also took the episode title as. I really feel that you are right about Vivian killing them before they get the ch… moreance to reveal anything.
Also, I believe I said she would know where there would be at all time because of her access to the books.
I believe there could possibly be two killers or separate multiple motives, possibly another motive that hasn't yet been fully revealed. I cannot fathom that Vivan and Larissa are entirely innocent because they are glam'ed to be silenced. But placing the full blame on Vivan is quite suspect as to her cause of motivation. Revenge for Faith wanting to leave, Lilly for making more money, personal vengeance for Cranes lust,? She already is in a position of worth, being trusted to run much of the prostitution business. Particularly the girls welfare, when making their arrangements, she is also a working girl.herself, sisters for life, two for one happy hour. Why would she risk all this and their friendships, well this is yet to be fully developed. However I would find it strange that the killer isn't in the original book fable picture. They might not be, but that would be a disappointment to that picture. That is not to say they are not working with any other fables who are connected to the crime, or possibly glam'ed to be somebody else
The Crooked man is of course the head of the underworld, meaning the prostitution is connected to him, along with all the other thuggery. These murders are playing on his purse which is why he is making himself involved in the investigation from the start. But there could be more however I find it unlikely he has much other business to mind other then profit. Neither Faith or Lily provided an immediate threat, as they were already lining his pocket through the prostitution, why would he investigate?
The ripped denim could have come for any number of people including Snow White.
Very sharp or magical kills a fable, particularly severing the neck with the same patterned of cut..Bluebeard's knife or Woody's axe. I doubt Vivan unless glam'ed could have achieved this, when getting the time off. There is also the Butcher who we know little about.
The mirror refused to disclose Faith's location, meaning her body was already possibly down the witching well. Powerful magic prevents yadda yadda. Vivan probably didn't have any access to the witching well. But then again she could be a dragon who simply eats the fables Muhahaha....
Hmm ... Sounds good. The Wolf Among Us: Prelude to the Prequel of the Fable comics. We could play the first murder case maybe? So yeah I would buy that episode!!!
Quite possible, that would be my guess also, or should I say hope. He'll probably try to connect gathered clues and evidence either there or… more in his apartment where we also saw him to be, along with Snow, in episode 4 preview. Anyway, I'm glad that you agree with me on this matter.
By the way, since I mentioned 1700's earlier, I got an idea.... I'd definitely like to see Wolf Among Us with Bigby and Snow in colonial times, how about you?
1) We don't know very much about Vivian, who she is, where she came from and least of all what her goals are, so we don't have any idea what her motives may be, which isn't the reason to dismiss her as a suspect. It's just that we don't know her well at this point, and as I see it, that's actually a reason more to suspect her.
2) There's no way in hell that someone can cut off somebody's head so precisely with a knife that small. The fact that we saw Woodys axe doesn't necessarily mean it's the murder weapon. And along those lines, we also learned of Vorpal sword, which is also a sharp, magical weapon.
3) Lily was glamoured to look like Snow when her body was thrown to the lake, so she wouldn't weight like troll at that point.
4) Yeah, there were obviously two people or one delusional individual prone to hallucinations, but why would that dismiss Vivians involvement? And I don't understand that sociopath remark, could you please explain?
1) What would Vivan gain from killing off her friends? She is already the number one girl, what motive could she possibly have for silencing… more them? When they have already been glamored with the spell of secrets for the use of their professionalism?
2) The murder weapon is of magic origin, the only weapon fitting this description seen is Woody's axe, the donkey dagger doesn't cut it, although possibly Bluebeard's knife.
3) Unless Vivan changes into a harpy to dispose of the bodies. How did she dispose of a troll weighing so much more then herself? Somebody was cut on the fence when delivering ass girl's head (Faith). Although when as fables they heal in seconds. Wearing denim cloth leaving jean fabric behind.
4) Why are you laughing at me, or stop laughing at me, TJ had informed. When Lilly was dumped. Suggesting possibly a pair of killers or a sociopath?
Good points for support that Vivian is the killer. One more thing I would like to add. In the game, when Bigby investigates the body, the M.O. is that the victim's neck gets cutted by either magic or a sharp weapon. If Vivian is indeed the killer, we know the Woodman's axe wasn't the murder weapon due to Bloody Mary or Woody being the only ones seen with it. So Vivian could somehow procured a magical weapon etc. And somehow Vivian could be the one who bought a magic spell to keep room 207 door magically shutted, preventing Beauty from opening it with the Master key. The only way to nail her would be Nerissa spilling the beans as she could be an important witness despite the magic enchantment that prevents her from talking about work. Sigh!
Nobody has thought to rule VIvian out entirely. On the basis where is Faith's body? The magic Mirror said powerful magic prevents it from showing her location after she was killed. Meaning the body could have been in only one possible place. The witching well. Vivan had no direct access to the witching well, cutting down our list of suspect to only a few people.
Of course that is not to say the body won't turn up somewhere else. The only other mention of powerful magic was at Auntie Greenleaf's? But that got burnt. Or another fable is eating the fables, bacon tasty?
In Episode 2 the game asks you to interview T.J. right? And thereafter you get to ask the mirror to show Lily which is the part before you actually take a look at Lily/Snow's corpse. She was noticeably not thrown in the witching well yet when you enquire to show Lily. Of which its reply was....
Nobody has thought to rule VIvian out entirely. On the basis where is Faith's body? The magic Mirror said powerful magic prevents it from sh… moreowing her location after she was killed. Meaning the body could have been in only one possible place. The witching well. Vivan had no direct access to the witching well, cutting down our list of suspect to only a few people.
Of course that is not to say the body won't turn up somewhere else. The only other mention of powerful magic was at Auntie Greenleaf's? But that got burnt. Or another fable is eating the fables, bacon tasty?
No above. I am talking about episode one. The first time you enter the Woodlands office. Yes that is what the Mirror says when looking for Faith.
The Mirror is able to show the dead, as in showing her dead father the King's dead hand. The Mirror is able to show Prince Lawrence importantly the dagger, before making the choices to save him. But not Faith's body..
I am not taking about Lilly being in the morgue with the Witching Well, where Crane after your examination immediately throws her body down it.
The Witching Well's fabled lore description and in game references specifically say powerful magic.
The only other option, is the examined cooker in Auntie Greenleaf's flat. Later when questioned Auntie Greenleaf's references to powerful magic, you don't know what is going on yadda yadda. Suggesting possibly a different killer, because they didn't dispose of Faith's body in the same way as Lilly's when dumping it into TJ's pond.
Faith's body was already exhumed via the Witching Well or some other powerful magical means?
In Episode 2 the game asks you to interview T.J. right? And thereafter you get to ask the mirror to show Lily which is the part before you a… morectually take a look at Lily/Snow's corpse. She was noticeably not thrown in the witching well yet when you enquire to show Lily. Of which its reply was....
In all fairness most of us did not burn the tree at Greenleaf's. According to the official stats 81% of players left the Tree alone .
Once again, we have no idea what kind of Fable Vivian really is. So she could be loaded with magic for all we know. Furthermore, Vivian could be comitting murder out of mercy. Her card at Lily's funeral makes it sound like a relief that Lily will no longer have to live her lifestyle and worry about trivial things.
One final thing, who is to say the bodies are in the Witching Well at all. We know Crane put Lily's body there after the examination but Faith's entire body besides her head, is still unaccounted for. Also it would be really hard to transport a body through the Woodlands to get to the Thirteeth floor without a single person noticing anything.
Nobody has thought to rule VIvian out entirely. On the basis where is Faith's body? The magic Mirror said powerful magic prevents it from sh… moreowing her location after she was killed. Meaning the body could have been in only one possible place. The witching well. Vivan had no direct access to the witching well, cutting down our list of suspect to only a few people.
Of course that is not to say the body won't turn up somewhere else. The only other mention of powerful magic was at Auntie Greenleaf's? But that got burnt. Or another fable is eating the fables, bacon tasty?
To get the cheevo mutiple play throughs, in particular burning the tree. I have gone back and am on a play through intent on using all of the asshole options of dialogue, when glassing, hitting, punching, people first to see where my game goes. I think everybody remembers Bigby and hates him in Fabletown, they normally use worse dialogues as introduction.
Who is leaving out the tarrot cards?
The Witching well is the only explanation for the bodies whereabouts really. Everybody used the Mirror in episode one I hope. To get the evidence when making the choice between Toad and Lawrence? This makes your acquaintance better with Snow on arrival at Lawrence's flat through speech by telling Snow about the Mirrors picture. Snow trusts you more.
In all fairness most of us did not burn the tree at Greenleaf's. According to the official stats 81% of players left the Tree alone .
Once… more again, we have no idea what kind of Fable Vivian really is. So she could be loaded with magic for all we know. Furthermore, Vivian could be comitting murder out of mercy. Her card at Lily's funeral makes it sound like a relief that Lily will no longer have to live her lifestyle and worry about trivial things.
One final thing, who is to say the bodies are in the Witching Well at all. We know Crane put Lily's body there after the examination but Faith's entire body besides her head, is still unaccounted for. Also it would be really hard to transport a body through the Woodlands to get to the Thirteeth floor without a single person noticing anything.
To get the cheevo mutiple play throughs, in particular burning the tree. I have gone back and am on a play through intent on using all of th… moree asshole options of dialogue, when glassing, hitting, punching, people first to see where my game goes. I think everybody remembers Bigby and hates him in Fabletown, they normally use worse dialogues as introduction.
Who is leaving out the tarrot cards?
The Witching well is the only explanation for the bodies whereabouts really. Everybody used the Mirror in episode one I hope. To get the evidence when making the choice between Toad and Lawrence? This makes your acquaintance better with Snow on arrival at Lawrence's flat through speech by telling Snow about the Mirrors picture. Snow trusts you more.
Nobody has thought to rule VIvian out entirely. On the basis where is Faith's body? The magic Mirror said powerful magic prevents it from sh… moreowing her location after she was killed. Meaning the body could have been in only one possible place. The witching well. Vivan had no direct access to the witching well, cutting down our list of suspect to only a few people.
Of course that is not to say the body won't turn up somewhere else. The only other mention of powerful magic was at Auntie Greenleaf's? But that got burnt. Or another fable is eating the fables, bacon tasty?
Show White embracing the Wolf, then Faith's head and the tower. Lastly the card he keeps the prince with many daggers stabbed bleeding lying on the floor
I haven't read the comics. In game trying to piece the story together, through information I have received when trying to solve this crime.
I haven't been able to see Faith"s body unlike the almost dead dying Prince. Seeing also the dead King, Faith's father lying in the ground.
I simply presumed that because the Witching Well used powerful magic when using the Y button to look at it. Within the morgue before examining Lilly and when reading it's Fabled lore description in the options menu. This was why the Mirror had been unable to identify Faith's body location. The only other powerful magic reference was Auntie Greenleaf's when threatening to burn her tree and make her talk. She stated you have no idea at the forces at work here and the powerful magic used or something very similar. A glam after Faith had died to prevent the Mirror functioning? Or the Mirror itself has been Glam'ed, by why smash it?
The only other explanation could be that a fable has eaten her? Colin...........Hahaha.
Show White embracing the Wolf, then Faith's head and the tower. Lastly the card he keeps the prince with many daggers stabbed bleeding lying on the floor
I never questioned Vivian before but after reading this and playing the last two episodes over again, my thoughts on the killer or those that are involved have changed. I now believe that not only is she involved but possibly Georgie. I think when T.J. mentioned something saying 'stop laughing' I can see Georgie being the one laughing and Vivian telling him to stop. Also, in the 3rd episode, when you go to the Tweedle's office and glance in the file cabinets, you see Faith's; on the bottom there was a note. I couldn't make out what it said due to my tv's poor ability to show a decent picture but it had Georgie's name. Plus, the two that DID die, all worked for him.
Show White embracing the Wolf, then Faith's head and the tower. Lastly the card he keeps the prince with many daggers stabbed bleeding lying on the floor
Ok, fair enough. I haven't read them until recently, I'm talking about really recently like two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure though whether mirror could always see inside the witching well or was it the case only in that story arc, due to exceptional things that occurred.
Lol about Colin. But why do you presume that the witching well (or a very hungry corpse-eating pig) is the only explanation? My guess would be that the place where her body's located is simply enchanted with powerful magic, whichever place that is. That is if Faith really is dead. That head from episode 1 could also be glamoured I guess...
I haven't read the comics. In game trying to piece the story together, through information I have received when trying to solve this crime.
… more
I haven't been able to see Faith"s body unlike the almost dead dying Prince. Seeing also the dead King, Faith's father lying in the ground.
I simply presumed that because the Witching Well used powerful magic when using the Y button to look at it. Within the morgue before examining Lilly and when reading it's Fabled lore description in the options menu. This was why the Mirror had been unable to identify Faith's body location. The only other powerful magic reference was Auntie Greenleaf's when threatening to burn her tree and make her talk. She stated you have no idea at the forces at work here and the powerful magic used or something very similar. A glam after Faith had died to prevent the Mirror functioning? Or the Mirror itself has been Glam'ed, by why smash it?
The only other explanation could be that a fable has eaten her? Colin...........Hahaha.
Great! I was considering explaining the possible meanings of some tarot cards (the tower and betrayal), but as it appears, am not in a mood for a lengthy posts today.
Oh yeah! Who took the pictures thts a good point and y wud they even be left in the room? Seems like something crane wud want with him as he goes to bed.lol
To get the cheevo mutiple play throughs, in particular burning the tree. I have gone back and am on a play through intent on using all of th… moree asshole options of dialogue, when glassing, hitting, punching, people first to see where my game goes. I think everybody remembers Bigby and hates him in Fabletown, they normally use worse dialogues as introduction.
Who is leaving out the tarrot cards?
The Witching well is the only explanation for the bodies whereabouts really. Everybody used the Mirror in episode one I hope. To get the evidence when making the choice between Toad and Lawrence? This makes your acquaintance better with Snow on arrival at Lawrence's flat through speech by telling Snow about the Mirrors picture. Snow trusts you more.
I agree plus for a guy who's business rides on his girls "fees" he doesn't seems to bothered tht 2 of his 4 girls have been killed. Their both def. in it but I wanna know who's behind it
I never questioned Vivian before but after reading this and playing the last two episodes over again, my thoughts on the killer or those tha… moret are involved have changed. I now believe that not only is she involved but possibly Georgie. I think when T.J. mentioned something saying 'stop laughing' I can see Georgie being the one laughing and Vivian telling him to stop. Also, in the 3rd episode, when you go to the Tweedle's office and glance in the file cabinets, you see Faith's; on the bottom there was a note. I couldn't make out what it said due to my tv's poor ability to show a decent picture but it had Georgie's name. Plus, the two that DID die, all worked for him.
Wonder if we'll find the missing mirror shard in the next episode. Crane didn't seem to have it with him when bloodymary took him. Also I wonder wat his motive for breaking it was in the first place. I mean it cud be just so they cudnt find him, or maybe he knew bloody mary was coming after him? It's say in her "book of fables" she can use reflective surfaces as a portal.
Crane's secret broke out that he is a dirty old man visiting whores who glamored as his secretary whom he is infatuated with. And this turn of events made him upset that he probably panicked, threw the genie lamp on to the mirror (his pills didn't help eh? Poor Ichabod, heh) and then made a phone call to someone whom he trusts and I would believe it to be Blue Beard. So BB told him to get the Ring of Dispell of which he "would need his witch for that" or what not. So the dumb fool setted a meet up at 2.00a.m. He may have took the final piece of the mirror with him and still kept it in his car (yay we can fix it now) or pants (good job killing the mirror you idiot). BloodyMary has so far only shown herself when the Crooked Man comes to Fabletown. Behind the scenes she could have teleported into the office, though it's unlikely as Bufkin would of noticed that right away and let us know. But that never happened so far. And if at all she tries I will cut her throat out! What d'you think?
Wonder if we'll find the missing mirror shard in the next episode. Crane didn't seem to have it with him when bloodymary took him. Also I w… moreonder wat his motive for breaking it was in the first place. I mean it cud be just so they cudnt find him, or maybe he knew bloody mary was coming after him? It's say in her "book of fables" she can use reflective surfaces as a portal.
Crane's secret broke out that he is a dirty old man visiting whores who glamored as his secretary whom he is infatuated with. And this turn … moreof events made him upset that he probably panicked, threw the genie lamp on to the mirror (his pills didn't help eh? Poor Ichabod, heh) and then made a phone call to someone whom he trusts and I would believe it to be Blue Beard. So BB told him to get the Ring of Dispell of which he "would need his witch for that" or what not. So the dumb fool setted a meet up at 2.00a.m. He may have took the final piece of the mirror with him and still kept it in his car (yay we can fix it now) or pants (good job killing the mirror you idiot). BloodyMary has so far only shown herself when the Crooked Man comes to Fabletown. Behind the scenes she could have teleported into the office, though it's unlikely as Bufkin would of noticed that right away and let us know. But that never happened so far. And if at all she tries I will cut her throat out! What d'you think?
I'm just saying I feel like crane and Bloody Mary know eachother especially since she seems to be the crooked man lap dog. And thanks to searching cranes apartment is obvious crane dealing with the crooked man. So wat I'm saying is once he was found out I think he feared the crooked man and Bloody Mary more than he actually feared bigby and snow.
Crane's secret broke out that he is a dirty old man visiting whores who glamored as his secretary whom he is infatuated with. And this turn … moreof events made him upset that he probably panicked, threw the genie lamp on to the mirror (his pills didn't help eh? Poor Ichabod, heh) and then made a phone call to someone whom he trusts and I would believe it to be Blue Beard. So BB told him to get the Ring of Dispell of which he "would need his witch for that" or what not. So the dumb fool setted a meet up at 2.00a.m. He may have took the final piece of the mirror with him and still kept it in his car (yay we can fix it now) or pants (good job killing the mirror you idiot). BloodyMary has so far only shown herself when the Crooked Man comes to Fabletown. Behind the scenes she could have teleported into the office, though it's unlikely as Bufkin would of noticed that right away and let us know. But that never happened so far. And if at all she tries I will cut her throat out! What d'you think?
Because if the Mirror is that pointless. Why have it in the first place? When unlike any other fable it can be easily smashed and broken, taking up to years to repair? If The Mirror's abilities cannot show a body, but they can with the dead King.
The Mirror's abilities have shown the Dead the King, shown the Dying Prince Lawrence, shown Driving, shown Drinking, shown Walking, shown Talking. What they haven't shown is Powerful Magic. The only two references of Powerful Magic. Were stated previously. Unless these are simply irrelevant gestures, in being quite absurd to reference them within a murder game? Were specifically the Witching Well and Auntie GreenLeaf's. If the Mirror is easily glam'ed. Why would Crane with extensive business to the glam industry, when being in office smash the Mirror? All Crane had to do was glam it. Yes I know he got angry but that is not the point. The shard has been taken for more prevention, if it is an already pointless exercise?
Presumping the morgue or the Witching Well is barred by magic. Leaving the only other place for Faith corpse, her being exhumed already. Although this could quite possibly be shown. Falling Jokingly! Under cannibalism. Colin being biggest suspect, hahaha because a pig will eat through anything, leaving only the teeth behind. Cremated in cooker, nice cooker, unusual. When using the Y button, having powerful Magic in that household and the eerie rattling.. Possibly the already mentioned Witching Well. Although a really stupid wild idea would be that a glam'ed character like a Snow White clone. When glam'ed underneath is wearing ass skin preventing the Mirror from seeing Faith because they are somebody else. Jokes!
If there is a glam to prevent the Mirror working it would be quite pointless? No? Agreeing that there might be magic prevention within a magical place from another barrier, like possibly the Witching Well. Or Joking another fable's extraordinary dinning habits, possibly a cremated corpse. Faith not being herself when being somebody else. Although this is Defrauded somewhat by Snow White being shown when she was cloned as Lilly. Faith still should have been seen, if somebody else was using her clone. Although possibly not if she is glam'ed. I would find this particularly flawed if Faith turns up in the river, or under a bed.
Why would Faith glam herself when she cannot even make her fees, hardly prostitute of the month? Begging the obvious questions of why put Faith's ring in the head, whose was Faith's head?
The Mirror was asked to show both Faith and Lilly and both were prevented from being seen in the Mirror from Powerful Magic. Lilly was Snow White so guessing she couldn't be seen because of the glamored magic. Faith's body is missing without her ring the fable emblem. If Faith is using a disguise, where is Faith, and whose is the decapitaed head? If Faith is not disguised why wasn't she shown in the mirror? Disregarding any prior jokes!
Ok, fair enough. I haven't read them until recently, I'm talking about really recently like two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure though whether… more mirror could always see inside the witching well or was it the case only in that story arc, due to exceptional things that occurred.
Lol about Colin. But why do you presume that the witching well (or a very hungry corpse-eating pig) is the only explanation? My guess would be that the place where her body's located is simply enchanted with powerful magic, whichever place that is. That is if Faith really is dead. That head from episode 1 could also be glamoured I guess...
@McLovesth maybe you're right. I went to Ichabod's apartment first and heard Bloody Mary's voice message for him, which was really creepy. Yeah so true that. Sadly instead of heading to his suite, Ichabod did the mistake of rushing to PnP first. So he couldn't have known about Bloody Mary's message. If he did then why didn't he catch the next flight to Mexico disguised as a Mundy? He didn't escape Fabletown right?
I'm just saying I feel like crane and Bloody Mary know eachother especially since she seems to be the crooked man lap dog. And thanks to sea… morerching cranes apartment is obvious crane dealing with the crooked man. So wat I'm saying is once he was found out I think he feared the crooked man and Bloody Mary more than he actually feared bigby and snow.
@McLovesth maybe you're right. I went to Ichabod's apartment first and heard Bloody Mary's voice message for him, which was really creepy. Y… moreeah so true that. Sadly instead of heading to his suite, Ichabod did the mistake of rushing to PnP first. So he couldn't have known about Bloody Mary's message. If he did then why didn't he catch the next flight to Mexico disguised as a Mundy? He didn't escape Fabletown right?
Faith had taken the photo of Crane. Faith was either killed at Lawrence flat, or the killer had gone back there after delivering Faith's head head, the blood stain was from the previous cut on the fence, or from Faith. Lawrence suicide was possibly only a cover, or he knew the killer, the dagger possibly the weapon, or further deception. The Dumb's were sent to both Woody and Lawrence to recover the photo Faith had. Lilly was unknown, missing, killed days previously. Crane was to be questioned when having the thugs sent after him.
Jack was sent to recover the photo, possibly the key from Crane's apartment during his break in.
Ruling out mostly the Crooked Man, who is only trying to cover up his tracks. Employing diversion and thuggery to get at the evidence of his business empire. Meaning it is also unlikely to be most of his recently employed accomplices. Vivan and Larissa are possibly covering for Faith.
Comments
1-3: My speculation on her motive is that it has to do with whatever Fable she is. We don't know what she was or if she is even glamoured herself at the moment. For all we know Vivian may be a witch or fairy herself, and could be capable of using her own magic. As for the denim, It must be from the accomplice should Vivian be the killer. That only really leaves Jack, and Tiny Tim. The latter of the two is more plausible seeing as Georgie was in contact with The Crooked Man before Blood Mary and the Tweedles arrived. This then means she would be tied to the Crooked Man as well and could be in contact with Tiny Tim, for a little "favor" in leaving the head and sticking around to make sure it was found. (Episode 1)
4: Again Maybe it goes back to whatever Fable she may be?
Maybe out of sympathy for them, not wanting them to suffer any more. It seems like the hookers at the puddin n pie have kind of sucky lives. No pun intended. Maybe there's something else going on that Vivian doesn't want anyone to know and she kills anyone who tries to rat her out. She might have accidentally killed Lilly, then killed Faith for trying to tell the sheriff. That'd explain Nerissa's willingness to help and her nervousness.
I dunno. She stole Woody's axe or another magical item, maybe?
She probably has help. Maybe the crooked man or some of his employees are helping her or something.
We don't know for sure that Vivian isn't insane.
She also probably had some kind of help, because as you pointed out, she would probably find it difficult to lift up a troll alone.
I like this theory, but I will admit it does have some holes. Mainly it's lacking in evidence(not much screen time for Vivian) imo.
Great input. That is how I also took the episode title as. I really feel that you are right about Vivian killing them before they get the chance to reveal anything.
Also, I believe I said she would know where there would be at all time because of her access to the books.
Thank you, I try. Great theory, no one seems to have even suspected Vivian slightly until now.
Great work with your theory. I personally don't think that Vivian is the killer, but you definitely convinced me that she she has a major role to play in the case. Whatever the nature of her involvement will turn out to be, I think that we are at least safe to assume that Vivian was trying to frame Crane. Vivian and Nerissa probably knew that Crane was Lily's regular client and was seeing Faith as well. Nerissa also does confess that she knew that room 207 was rented by Crane. After both murders occured the other girls from Pudding n' Pie might have simply assumed that Crane was the one responsible and wanted to make sure that he won't get away with it. Or more probably Vivian had some reason (other than her being direct killer) to take this opportunity and try to frame Crane. She probably left the compromising evidence in the 207 (those cigarettes found at the crime scene seem to fit). And later she convinced Nerissa to steer Bigby there. Now, this theory obviously has some holes in it and requires much more elaboration, but is seems to me like a plausible explanation why Vivian was so determined to put the blame on Crane (maybe that was the scheme he mentioned?).
I believe there could possibly be two killers or separate multiple motives, possibly another motive that hasn't yet been fully revealed. I cannot fathom that Vivan and Larissa are entirely innocent because they are glam'ed to be silenced. But placing the full blame on Vivan is quite suspect as to her cause of motivation. Revenge for Faith wanting to leave, Lilly for making more money, personal vengeance for Cranes lust,? She already is in a position of worth, being trusted to run much of the prostitution business. Particularly the girls welfare, when making their arrangements, she is also a working girl.herself, sisters for life, two for one happy hour. Why would she risk all this and their friendships, well this is yet to be fully developed. However I would find it strange that the killer isn't in the original book fable picture. They might not be, but that would be a disappointment to that picture. That is not to say they are not working with any other fables who are connected to the crime, or possibly glam'ed to be somebody else
The Crooked man is of course the head of the underworld, meaning the prostitution is connected to him, along with all the other thuggery. These murders are playing on his purse which is why he is making himself involved in the investigation from the start. But there could be more however I find it unlikely he has much other business to mind other then profit. Neither Faith or Lily provided an immediate threat, as they were already lining his pocket through the prostitution, why would he investigate?
The ripped denim could have come for any number of people including Snow White.
Very sharp or magical kills a fable, particularly severing the neck with the same patterned of cut..Bluebeard's knife or Woody's axe. I doubt Vivan unless glam'ed could have achieved this, when getting the time off. There is also the Butcher who we know little about.
The mirror refused to disclose Faith's location, meaning her body was already possibly down the witching well. Powerful magic prevents yadda yadda. Vivan probably didn't have any access to the witching well. But then again she could be a dragon who simply eats the fables Muhahaha....
Hmm ... Sounds good. The Wolf Among Us: Prelude to the Prequel of the Fable comics. We could play the first murder case maybe? So yeah I would buy that episode!!!
ahh dont diss viv
1) We don't know very much about Vivian, who she is, where she came from and least of all what her goals are, so we don't have any idea what her motives may be, which isn't the reason to dismiss her as a suspect. It's just that we don't know her well at this point, and as I see it, that's actually a reason more to suspect her.
2) There's no way in hell that someone can cut off somebody's head so precisely with a knife that small. The fact that we saw Woodys axe doesn't necessarily mean it's the murder weapon. And along those lines, we also learned of Vorpal sword, which is also a sharp, magical weapon.
3) Lily was glamoured to look like Snow when her body was thrown to the lake, so she wouldn't weight like troll at that point.
4) Yeah, there were obviously two people or one delusional individual prone to hallucinations, but why would that dismiss Vivians involvement? And I don't understand that sociopath remark, could you please explain?
Good points for support that Vivian is the killer. One more thing I would like to add. In the game, when Bigby investigates the body, the M.O. is that the victim's neck gets cutted by either magic or a sharp weapon. If Vivian is indeed the killer, we know the Woodman's axe wasn't the murder weapon due to Bloody Mary or Woody being the only ones seen with it. So Vivian could somehow procured a magical weapon etc. And somehow Vivian could be the one who bought a magic spell to keep room 207 door magically shutted, preventing Beauty from opening it with the Master key. The only way to nail her would be Nerissa spilling the beans as she could be an important witness despite the magic enchantment that prevents her from talking about work. Sigh!
Maybe Vivian was the one who took the Crane and Lily picture?
im thinkin bluebeard
Nobody has thought to rule VIvian out entirely. On the basis where is Faith's body? The magic Mirror said powerful magic prevents it from showing her location after she was killed. Meaning the body could have been in only one possible place. The witching well. Vivan had no direct access to the witching well, cutting down our list of suspect to only a few people.
Of course that is not to say the body won't turn up somewhere else. The only other mention of powerful magic was at Auntie Greenleaf's? But that got burnt. Or another fable is eating the fables, bacon tasty?
In Episode 2 the game asks you to interview T.J. right? And thereafter you get to ask the mirror to show Lily which is the part before you actually take a look at Lily/Snow's corpse. She was noticeably not thrown in the witching well yet when you enquire to show Lily. Of which its reply was....
No above. I am talking about episode one. The first time you enter the Woodlands office. Yes that is what the Mirror says when looking for Faith.
The Mirror is able to show the dead, as in showing her dead father the King's dead hand. The Mirror is able to show Prince Lawrence importantly the dagger, before making the choices to save him. But not Faith's body..
I am not taking about Lilly being in the morgue with the Witching Well, where Crane after your examination immediately throws her body down it.
The Witching Well's fabled lore description and in game references specifically say powerful magic.
The only other option, is the examined cooker in Auntie Greenleaf's flat. Later when questioned Auntie Greenleaf's references to powerful magic, you don't know what is going on yadda yadda. Suggesting possibly a different killer, because they didn't dispose of Faith's body in the same way as Lilly's when dumping it into TJ's pond.
Faith's body was already exhumed via the Witching Well or some other powerful magical means?
In all fairness most of us did not burn the tree at Greenleaf's. According to the official stats 81% of players left the Tree alone .
Once again, we have no idea what kind of Fable Vivian really is. So she could be loaded with magic for all we know. Furthermore, Vivian could be comitting murder out of mercy. Her card at Lily's funeral makes it sound like a relief that Lily will no longer have to live her lifestyle and worry about trivial things.
One final thing, who is to say the bodies are in the Witching Well at all. We know Crane put Lily's body there after the examination but Faith's entire body besides her head, is still unaccounted for. Also it would be really hard to transport a body through the Woodlands to get to the Thirteeth floor without a single person noticing anything.
To get the cheevo mutiple play throughs, in particular burning the tree. I have gone back and am on a play through intent on using all of the asshole options of dialogue, when glassing, hitting, punching, people first to see where my game goes. I think everybody remembers Bigby and hates him in Fabletown, they normally use worse dialogues as introduction.
Who is leaving out the tarrot cards?
The Witching well is the only explanation for the bodies whereabouts really. Everybody used the Mirror in episode one I hope. To get the evidence when making the choice between Toad and Lawrence? This makes your acquaintance better with Snow on arrival at Lawrence's flat through speech by telling Snow about the Mirrors picture. Snow trusts you more.
The Tarot Cards !!!!!!!
But mirror can see inside the witching well, it was broadcasting Flycatcher when he went down in the comics.
What were the other tarot cards showing in episode 1? I only drew one, and now regret not drawing the others.
Show White embracing the Wolf, then Faith's head and the tower. Lastly the card he keeps the prince with many daggers stabbed bleeding lying on the floor
I haven't read the comics. In game trying to piece the story together, through information I have received when trying to solve this crime.
I haven't been able to see Faith"s body unlike the almost dead dying Prince. Seeing also the dead King, Faith's father lying in the ground.
I simply presumed that because the Witching Well used powerful magic when using the Y button to look at it. Within the morgue before examining Lilly and when reading it's Fabled lore description in the options menu. This was why the Mirror had been unable to identify Faith's body location. The only other powerful magic reference was Auntie Greenleaf's when threatening to burn her tree and make her talk. She stated you have no idea at the forces at work here and the powerful magic used or something very similar. A glam after Faith had died to prevent the Mirror functioning? Or the Mirror itself has been Glam'ed, by why smash it?
The only other explanation could be that a fable has eaten her? Colin...........Hahaha.
I updated the first post with the tarot meanings and with some research into the combination of cards.
I never questioned Vivian before but after reading this and playing the last two episodes over again, my thoughts on the killer or those that are involved have changed. I now believe that not only is she involved but possibly Georgie. I think when T.J. mentioned something saying 'stop laughing' I can see Georgie being the one laughing and Vivian telling him to stop. Also, in the 3rd episode, when you go to the Tweedle's office and glance in the file cabinets, you see Faith's; on the bottom there was a note. I couldn't make out what it said due to my tv's poor ability to show a decent picture but it had Georgie's name. Plus, the two that DID die, all worked for him.
Could Vivian be Rapunzel? She has blonde hair and green eyes. She also gets her hair cut by Dame Gothel in some stories.
Thanks for the information!
Ok, fair enough. I haven't read them until recently, I'm talking about really recently like two weeks ago. I'm not quite sure though whether mirror could always see inside the witching well or was it the case only in that story arc, due to exceptional things that occurred.
Lol about Colin. But why do you presume that the witching well (or a very hungry corpse-eating pig) is the only explanation? My guess would be that the place where her body's located is simply enchanted with powerful magic, whichever place that is. That is if Faith really is dead. That head from episode 1 could also be glamoured I guess...
Great! I was considering explaining the possible meanings of some tarot cards (the tower and betrayal), but as it appears, am not in a mood for a lengthy posts today.
Oh yeah! Who took the pictures thts a good point and y wud they even be left in the room? Seems like something crane wud want with him as he goes to bed.lol
Maybe it's nerissa or someone who knows the truth and is trying to help in anyway
I agree plus for a guy who's business rides on his girls "fees" he doesn't seems to bothered tht 2 of his 4 girls have been killed. Their both def. in it but I wanna know who's behind it
Oooooo great thought
Wonder if we'll find the missing mirror shard in the next episode. Crane didn't seem to have it with him when bloodymary took him. Also I wonder wat his motive for breaking it was in the first place. I mean it cud be just so they cudnt find him, or maybe he knew bloody mary was coming after him? It's say in her "book of fables" she can use reflective surfaces as a portal.
Crane's secret broke out that he is a dirty old man visiting whores who glamored as his secretary whom he is infatuated with. And this turn of events made him upset that he probably panicked, threw the genie lamp on to the mirror (his pills didn't help eh? Poor Ichabod, heh) and then made a phone call to someone whom he trusts and I would believe it to be Blue Beard. So BB told him to get the Ring of Dispell of which he "would need his witch for that" or what not. So the dumb fool setted a meet up at 2.00a.m. He may have took the final piece of the mirror with him and still kept it in his car (yay we can fix it now) or pants (good job killing the mirror you idiot). BloodyMary has so far only shown herself when the Crooked Man comes to Fabletown. Behind the scenes she could have teleported into the office, though it's unlikely as Bufkin would of noticed that right away and let us know. But that never happened so far. And if at all she tries I will cut her throat out! What d'you think?
Lol XD urs makes more sense
I'm just saying I feel like crane and Bloody Mary know eachother especially since she seems to be the crooked man lap dog. And thanks to searching cranes apartment is obvious crane dealing with the crooked man. So wat I'm saying is once he was found out I think he feared the crooked man and Bloody Mary more than he actually feared bigby and snow.
Because if the Mirror is that pointless. Why have it in the first place? When unlike any other fable it can be easily smashed and broken, taking up to years to repair? If The Mirror's abilities cannot show a body, but they can with the dead King.
The Mirror's abilities have shown the Dead the King, shown the Dying Prince Lawrence, shown Driving, shown Drinking, shown Walking, shown Talking. What they haven't shown is Powerful Magic. The only two references of Powerful Magic. Were stated previously. Unless these are simply irrelevant gestures, in being quite absurd to reference them within a murder game? Were specifically the Witching Well and Auntie GreenLeaf's. If the Mirror is easily glam'ed. Why would Crane with extensive business to the glam industry, when being in office smash the Mirror? All Crane had to do was glam it. Yes I know he got angry but that is not the point. The shard has been taken for more prevention, if it is an already pointless exercise?
Presumping the morgue or the Witching Well is barred by magic. Leaving the only other place for Faith corpse, her being exhumed already. Although this could quite possibly be shown. Falling Jokingly! Under cannibalism. Colin being biggest suspect, hahaha because a pig will eat through anything, leaving only the teeth behind. Cremated in cooker, nice cooker, unusual. When using the Y button, having powerful Magic in that household and the eerie rattling.. Possibly the already mentioned Witching Well. Although a really stupid wild idea would be that a glam'ed character like a Snow White clone. When glam'ed underneath is wearing ass skin preventing the Mirror from seeing Faith because they are somebody else. Jokes!
If there is a glam to prevent the Mirror working it would be quite pointless? No? Agreeing that there might be magic prevention within a magical place from another barrier, like possibly the Witching Well. Or Joking another fable's extraordinary dinning habits, possibly a cremated corpse. Faith not being herself when being somebody else. Although this is Defrauded somewhat by Snow White being shown when she was cloned as Lilly. Faith still should have been seen, if somebody else was using her clone. Although possibly not if she is glam'ed. I would find this particularly flawed if Faith turns up in the river, or under a bed.
Why would Faith glam herself when she cannot even make her fees, hardly prostitute of the month? Begging the obvious questions of why put Faith's ring in the head, whose was Faith's head?
The Mirror was asked to show both Faith and Lilly and both were prevented from being seen in the Mirror from Powerful Magic. Lilly was Snow White so guessing she couldn't be seen because of the glamored magic. Faith's body is missing without her ring the fable emblem. If Faith is using a disguise, where is Faith, and whose is the decapitaed head? If Faith is not disguised why wasn't she shown in the mirror? Disregarding any prior jokes!
@McLovesth maybe you're right. I went to Ichabod's apartment first and heard Bloody Mary's voice message for him, which was really creepy. Yeah so true that. Sadly instead of heading to his suite, Ichabod did the mistake of rushing to PnP first. So he couldn't have known about Bloody Mary's message. If he did then why didn't he catch the next flight to Mexico disguised as a Mundy? He didn't escape Fabletown right?
True, very true......well I'm outta ideas lol
Faith had taken the photo of Crane. Faith was either killed at Lawrence flat, or the killer had gone back there after delivering Faith's head head, the blood stain was from the previous cut on the fence, or from Faith. Lawrence suicide was possibly only a cover, or he knew the killer, the dagger possibly the weapon, or further deception. The Dumb's were sent to both Woody and Lawrence to recover the photo Faith had. Lilly was unknown, missing, killed days previously. Crane was to be questioned when having the thugs sent after him.
Jack was sent to recover the photo, possibly the key from Crane's apartment during his break in.
Ruling out mostly the Crooked Man, who is only trying to cover up his tracks. Employing diversion and thuggery to get at the evidence of his business empire. Meaning it is also unlikely to be most of his recently employed accomplices. Vivan and Larissa are possibly covering for Faith.
Where is Faith's body?
Totally wrong maybe