the one thing i have against the cigarette theory here would be the comment that beauty makes in ep 3 about bigby bein the only one to smoke that crap, and he more or less agrees. if either of them smoked the same stuff, he *should* have been able to pick out that somebody smoked the same brand as him when he met them, and recalled it right there. the only reason for that not to have been noted would be the fail-proof "fuck you, it's a game and we can't tell you some things or it'd give it away."
i'm more inclined to think it's part of a set-up, with the tweedles cast as the heroic detectives discovering the "horrible truth".
#Comment3
I first said, the killer was, "Vivian, aided by Faith". Now I am thinking it was actually FAITH AIDED BY VIVIAN.
Episode… more two is called, "Smoke and Mirrors." We know why the mirror is important, but why smoke?
Well, many of us thought Vivian was the killer because she smoked, and a Huuf N Puff was found at the crime scene. Huff 'N' Puffs are sold at the Pudding 'N' Pie. Note that we don't know if Vivian actually smokes Huff and Puffs; we just know she smokes The same could be said for everyone else who smokes (minus Bigby). There is a lot of circumstantial evidence,but Vivian seems to lack a motive. I believe Faiths motive for killing Lily was defensive retaliation (see first post) or a well thought out plan for possibly knowing too much (see first post). See the link below for the brilliant theory about Vivian.
www.telltalegames.com/community/discussion/65690/stupid-girls-and-their-preposterous-schemes-my-theory … [view original content]
I've entertained the Tweedles turning on their employer as well, but they won't be "heroic"; at best they will be last-minute anti-heroes.
As for the objection about the cigarettes: all Bigby would know at that point is the first part of what you said: "somebody smoked the same brand as him".
He knows it is somebody. That's it. Now if you want to argue that he should have been able to smell it on them, that's a different point. We only know someone was smoking one at the crime scene. We actually don't even know that much, as it may have just been put there. It could be someone trying to Frame Bigby, but that seems counterproductive, as they were framing Crane.
It could be a red-herring, but I doubt it. I think this is an important clue and is one the very few important clues that most players will notice. That said, If you assume the premise of my theory (that this was planned out), then you've got to think that the killer(s) would be smart enough to not smoke Huff N Puffs around Bigby, before or after the crime scene.
the one thing i have against the cigarette theory here would be the comment that beauty makes in ep 3 about bigby bein the only one to smoke… more that crap, and he more or less agrees. if either of them smoked the same stuff, he *should* have been able to pick out that somebody smoked the same brand as him when he met them, and recalled it right there. the only reason for that not to have been noted would be the fail-proof "fuck you, it's a game and we can't tell you some things or it'd give it away."
i'm more inclined to think it's part of a set-up, with the tweedles cast as the heroic detectives discovering the "horrible truth".
She had lost the photo before she met up with the Woodsman (very first scene). She then supposedly dies (I contest that she didn't). Either way, if she is dead or supposed to be dead, she cannot go looking for a lost/stolen item at her own house.
I like this theory and I thought I'd add something. Sorry if this was already mentioned but I haven't read the entire thread (it got a little off topic for a while - not pointing any fingers, please leave me out of it - so I skimmed to the end).
Can't remember exactly which conversation option gets this response but when Bigby and Faith are talking after the fight with Woody, Bigby can say "Maybe I should arrest you". Faith responds with something like "I won't be doing this for much longer, so now's your chance." Is she planning to stop hooking and find other work? Or does this mean that, as your theory suggests, she is behind all of this and will soon be going into hiding? Or does she know she's about to die (that's assuming that she is in fact dead, rather than pulling the puppet strings)? Whatever the case may be, her response is clearly foreshadowing the events that follow.
I think that if Faith does end up being the killer it would be, and please forgive the masochism here, a delightful punch in the gut. What I mean by that is, I like her character and I felt bad for her when she "died". I also felt bad for Bigby as he clearly liked her, and again for Lawrence when he found out what happened. Telltale did a great job of making me feel emotionally invested in these characters right from the get-go. But ultimately, I'm here for the story and I love a good twist!
Nice spot!! I didn't post it before, and it wasn't one of the important things I have yet to post about (see two posts above). It's just as important and just easy to overlook as many of them are, however.
I think your second notion is right; this is foreshadowing about her knowing more than she lets on.
I do not think she was just going to up and find another job, at least not a normal one.
I also don't believe she knew she was going to be killed. If that were the case, she would likely have asked for Bigby's help (she knows he's the sheriff). She also would not have been looking for trouble with a dangerous man (Woodsman).
Forgive me for my bad habit of correcting others, but I think you mean sadism instead of masochism. Either way, I agree with you. TTG did a great job gripping its audience right away. I too love a good twist, and that point of yours is some good evidence for one!
I like this theory and I thought I'd add something. Sorry if this was already mentioned but I haven't read the entire thread (it got a litt… morele off topic for a while - not pointing any fingers, please leave me out of it - so I skimmed to the end).
Can't remember exactly which conversation option gets this response but when Bigby and Faith are talking after the fight with Woody, Bigby can say "Maybe I should arrest you". Faith responds with something like "I won't be doing this for much longer, so now's your chance." Is she planning to stop hooking and find other work? Or does this mean that, as your theory suggests, she is behind all of this and will soon be going into hiding? Or does she know she's about to die (that's assuming that she is in fact dead, rather than pulling the puppet strings)? Whatever the case may be, her response is clearly foreshadowing the events that follow.
I think that if Faith does end up being the kill… [view original content]
Nice spot!! I didn't post it before, and it wasn't one of the important things I have yet to post about (see two posts above). It's just as … moreimportant and just easy to overlook as many of them are, however.
I think your second notion is right; this is foreshadowing about her knowing more than she lets on.
I do not think she was just going to up and find another job, at least not a normal one.
I also don't believe she knew she was going to be killed. If that were the case, she would likely have asked for Bigby's help (she knows he's the sheriff). She also would not have been looking for trouble with a dangerous man (Woodsman).
Forgive me for my bad habit of correcting others, but I think you mean sadism instead of masochism. Either way, I agree with you. TTG did a great job gripping its audience right away. I too love a good twist, and that point of yours is some good evidence for one!
that's not quite what i meant by "heroic". they're playin detective, goin everywhere bigby seems to end up. their information is just as good, or better than his. had the tweedles gotten to room 207 beforehand and "discovered" the scene, who does it look like is the one that the room belongs to? everyone knows bigby has a thing for snow, and that he's the only one that seems to smoke that brand. without that picture of crane, it would be quite easy to get people to think bigby was the one behind it. he'd be ostracized, snow would be shocked and disturbed and he'd be removed.
the crooked man certainly seems to have plans for bigby's removal, but as for if he's directly involved in the murders or just manipulating things for his advantage is my question.
I've entertained the Tweedles turning on their employer as well, but they won't be "heroic"; at best they will be last-minute anti-heroes. … more
As for the objection about the cigarettes: all Bigby would know at that point is the first part of what you said: "somebody smoked the same brand as him".
He knows it is somebody. That's it. Now if you want to argue that he should have been able to smell it on them, that's a different point. We only know someone was smoking one at the crime scene. We actually don't even know that much, as it may have just been put there. It could be someone trying to Frame Bigby, but that seems counterproductive, as they were framing Crane.
It could be a red-herring, but I doubt it. I think this is an important clue and is one the very few important clues that most players will notice. That said, If you assume the premise of my theory (that this was planned out), then you've got to think that the killer(s… [view original content]
Oh actually masochism might fit better. I thought what you meant was that Faith would be discovered to be the killer and then punished harshly for it. Well this English lesson is a digression. Huge spot, and thanks for pointing it out!
Just looked up the two words and, while masochism is close to what I meant, sadism does seem to fit better. Thanks ;)
And I agree with the rest of your post. Looking forward to Comment 3!
Ah, okay. You mean like incidentally, almost ironically good guys?
I still don't think CM was trying to frame Bigby right there. He was trying to frame Crane, which as you said would get Bigby angry and get him involved.
So that part I agree with, but I do not think CM's intent is to manipulate things have others kill Bigby. If he wanted Bigby dead, he could have told Bloody Mary to fill him with more silver or chop his head off. No, I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell have a past, and/or an obsession with Bigby.
I think CM is certainly complicit with the murder, but I don't think he personally did it himself. If you mean manipulating things for his [financial] advantage, I don't think that is the case. I think he is pulling the strings out of a sadistic desire to bring Bigby to a tipping point. I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell want him puzzled, bewildered and tilting at windmills. Then, after he finally discovers who is behind this (discovers that "horrible truth" you mentioned), he/she/they will try to kill Bigby on their own. I think CM would be very disappointed if another person got the pleasure of killing Bigby.
that's not quite what i meant by "heroic". they're playin detective, goin everywhere bigby seems to end up. their information is just as goo… mored, or better than his. had the tweedles gotten to room 207 beforehand and "discovered" the scene, who does it look like is the one that the room belongs to? everyone knows bigby has a thing for snow, and that he's the only one that seems to smoke that brand. without that picture of crane, it would be quite easy to get people to think bigby was the one behind it. he'd be ostracized, snow would be shocked and disturbed and he'd be removed.
the crooked man certainly seems to have plans for bigby's removal, but as for if he's directly involved in the murders or just manipulating things for his advantage is my question.
i'd say it's more likely that the 3, nerissa, lily and faith found out what was goin on, got evidence (the picture) lily asked faith to sub in for her "job" with the woodsman (unrelated and strictly professional visit) and ended up running into bigby. this caused a panic, thinking the plan was exposed, faith was killed and her head sent as an example to bigby not to get involved, but no picture surfaced, so the tweedles went searchin woody's place and prince laurence's but came up empty, lily's relationship with the woodsman probably became known to the crooked man, or atleast since she was the woodsman's regular there was a connection to follow. lily had gone to try and retrieve the picture on her last job in 207, but ended up being killed while playing her role and waiting for things to end so she could sneak the pics out.
the last bit doesn't quite fit right, imo... there were no signs of struggle, and crane wouldn't have been able to kill her himself, but if someone was glamoured to look like him at the time of her murder, it'd be possible that somebody had given her a false appointment, and hans, vivian, and georgie are the only 3 "uninvolved" with the murders that have that sort of access. i doubt it'd be georgie, and vivian doesn't have the muscle (though hans does), but vivian could be georgie's witch that cast the silence spell...
still does nothing to show just what the hell is goin on, tho...
Ah, okay. You mean like incidentally, almost ironically good guys?
I still don't think CM was trying to frame Bigby right there. He wa… mores trying to frame Crane, which as you said would get Bigby angry and get him involved.
So that part I agree with, but I do not think CM's intent is to manipulate things have others kill Bigby. If he wanted Bigby dead, he could have told Bloody Mary to fill him with more silver or chop his head off. No, I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell have a past, and/or an obsession with Bigby.
I think CM is certainly complicit with the murder, but I don't think he personally did it himself. If you mean manipulating things for his [financial] advantage, I don't think that is the case. I think he is pulling the strings out of a sadistic desire to bring Bigby to a tipping point. I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell want him puzzled, bewildered and tilting at windmills. Then, afte… [view original content]
First, I like the fact that you're thinking outside the box. I disagree that the Tweedle's are good/heroic/(insert synonym here). The game and the comics are about Bigby as the hero, but I like the fact that you have an alternate theory that nobody has considered. I have some objections below (with the first three being the strongest). I disagree with your theory, but the second paragraph, about which you're less confident...I actually am starting to like part of it. See number six below.
1. If the 3 (Nerissa, Faith, and Lily) all knew about the picture, why would neither Nerissa nor Lily have neglected to ask the Tweedle's (whom you posit as rather beneficent detectives that everyone overlooks) for help? Well the silence spell is the obvious answer, however, Faith WAS able to ask the Tweedle's about the picture that SHE HERSELF said she stole from Crane. This implies it is part of some plan of hers and that she (unlike Nerissa and Lily) was able to inquire about it. The premise that all three knew about the picture implies the picture is important to all three somehow. Further, since it was an "unrelated and professional visit", why would they be "thinking the plan was exposed?" How does an unrelated visit fit into a thought out plan?
2. The head being sent to Bigby was certainly not to dissuade him from getting involved. It was a message (as both he and Snow say) to get him involved. He is the Sheriff, and to send the head of a murdered woman to the residence of a sheriff would do the exact opposite of scaring him to not get invovled.
3. Dee went to Woody's and Lawrence's as per Faith's (free, might I remind you) request to retrieve the photo.
4. How would Lily know that the photo would end up at 207 at that night? Also, how does Lily's relationship with Woody pose a problem to CM? I'm not saying it doesn't, but if you would like to elaborate, I'd be curious to know.
5. Vivian is very likely involved (at the very least complicit) with the murder. She schedules the "massages".
6. We have no evidence in the game that Vivian is a witch. You're, of course, allowed to speculate, but I am just pointing out there is no evidence. EDIT: Actually that isn't a bad thought. I am not convinced, but it has a bit of merit to it. Vivian is based on Vivianne of the Lake, who does have some magic powers. However, they are of a totally different nature (force/power) than a silence spell, and she is not referred to as a witch. TTG would have to take some poetic license here (which they do all the time), but I redact my objection of Vivian being a witch as a bad idea. If she is a witch, she certainly isn't Georgie's witch. More like Georgie would be Vivian's (word that rhymes with witch).
7. Why would Hans help Bigby out by telling him that there is such a book?
8. Since there were no signs of struggle, why would muscle even be needed for the murder? Hans' muscle wouldn't be needed.
i'd say it's more likely that the 3, nerissa, lily and faith found out what was goin on, got evidence (the picture) lily asked faith to sub … morein for her "job" with the woodsman (unrelated and strictly professional visit) and ended up running into bigby. this caused a panic, thinking the plan was exposed, faith was killed and her head sent as an example to bigby not to get involved, but no picture surfaced, so the tweedles went searchin woody's place and prince laurence's but came up empty, lily's relationship with the woodsman probably became known to the crooked man, or atleast since she was the woodsman's regular there was a connection to follow. lily had gone to try and retrieve the picture on her last job in 207, but ended up being killed while playing her role and waiting for things to end so she could sneak the pics out.
the last bit doesn't quite fit right, imo... there were no signs of struggle, and crane wouldn't have been able to… [view original content]
for the tweedles, i'm not calling them heroes, only saying that they're the ones being scripted to discover what's really happening. bigby keeps getting there first or getting in the way, tho. if they "solved" the mystery and the "lapdog of a sheriff" did nothing or couldn't solve it in time, it would be one more strike against bigby, and they become more prominent.
1-2/ faith had met with the sheriff, which was something unexpected. it's the evil/devious mind that looks at everyone else as being the same. if they had felt that faith stirring up the woodsman and having bigby get called over was more of an attempt to pass information rather than a chance meeting, that could be why she was killed. the head was then sent as a warning to "mind his own business". bigby had no idea what was going, and no transactions of information or anything else had occurred between him and faith, tho, so the head only served as the starter for his mission. faith may have intended to inform him when she visited him later, but that's something we'll likely never know till the end.
3/ i'll have to replay the episode, cause i thought the missing picture was the thing that she had "stolen" from the crooked man, and the tweedles were hired by HIM to get it back.
4/ the girls were close friends, and people take things like the silence spell for granted. the girls literally CANT talk about stuff, so "they" don't have to worry about being exposed. but the thing about spells like that is people always try to find a loophole. what faith had stolen and hidden had to have been somewhere, if she didn't have it, and it wasn't at lawrence's place, it must have been hidden, but where and who else might know of it? lily had been to see woody numerous times, as we've been lead to believe, and then the one night that she asks faith to cover for he, faith winds up dead that night.
we still don't know for certain that lily was originally crane's prostitute, but a job is a job, and somebody would have to take over that room's... obligations. if all three girls knew of what was goin on, it's possible they knew how/where to hide stuff. the collection of photos is rather odd, in that the person was stalking the real snow white, and then have those pics mixed in with an odd and condemning photo. the way it was taken, crane should have known who took the picture, unless bloody mary is handy with a camera or he wanted a momento. that room just feels too strange.
6/ well, if u consider what bufkin said, anybody with the right knowledge and tools could probably create a glamour, so it's possible vivian has magical talents that lie elsewhere... yes, the silence spell might be a bit advanced for one whom we have no reason to believe has any magical talent what-so-ever, but then, even the fable lore thing in the game has pretty much no information on her. could be because there's nothing of note to say, or because if anyone knew her source, it'd be a dead give away.
7/ how much help was that book? a massive compilation of fake names. although it did show what glamour they were using, so there's evidence that somebody is keepin track of who is/does what and that glamours are being used. hans probably suggested it figuring there'd be nothing useful in there to incriminate him, if he was involved. if evidence provides absolutely no links, then why hide it? he comes off as seeming to be helpful, and while bigby got a room number out of it, it really told him nothing about what was goin on. not even the room told what happened and who did what.
8/ the body had to have gotten out of the room somehow. either it was carried out, or magic'd away. the blood makes it look like the body was dragged off the bed, so i'd guess muscle was atleast used in part. the likely people for that job are the tweedles, or hans.
one big thing that stands out, is that there were no signs of a struggle, as far as bruising, yet lily had grasped the flowers VERY tightly, expectantly, and it was a clean cut through her neck, yet, if i remember right, the bed didn't look to have had something like the axe go flying into it, so it should have been some other thing that killed her. one would assume the ribbon, and thus magic, but a show would have had to have been put on to keep her from getting suspicious until she was held down, or perhaps it happened as soon as she turned the music on and laid down. her ribbon was missing, for whatever reason.
if we consider that hans was the at the river telling the body to stop laughing at him, what reason would she have had to have laughed at him initially? what if he had gone in disguised as crane, and his... performance was laughable?
these are the points i can think of off the top of my head, in response. it's kinda late and my eyes are starting to burn, so i may not be as coherent as i think i am...
First, I like the fact that you're thinking outside the box. I disagree that the Tweedle's are good/heroic/(insert synonym here). The game a… morend the comics are about Bigby as the hero, but I like the fact that you have an alternate theory that nobody has considered. I have some objections below (with the first three being the strongest). I disagree with your theory, but the second paragraph, about which you're less confident...I actually am starting to like part of it. See number six below.
1. If the 3 (Nerissa, Faith, and Lily) all knew about the picture, why would neither Nerissa nor Lily have neglected to ask the Tweedle's (whom you posit as rather beneficent detectives that everyone overlooks) for help? Well the silence spell is the obvious answer, however, Faith WAS able to ask the Tweedle's about the picture that SHE HERSELF said she stole from Crane. This implies it is part of some plan of hers and that she (unlike Nerissa and Lily… [view original content]
I think you're misinterpreting the Tweedles' role. THE TWEEDLES WORK FOR CM. They are not freelance detectives (as Flycatcher had thought). See number three below. The story is about Bigby.
1-2. I completely disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, but you're entitled to your own opinion.
3. See video below for supporting evidence. Dee (who is CM's investigator) was hired by Faith to look for a lost/stolen photo that she stole from Crane. If you doubt that they work for CM, look at beauty's file at 15:00. "Wait till CM gives go ahead. Put squeeze." If you doubt faith stole the photo from Crane, asked the twins for help and is not being charged money by the them (the very same job for which they are charging Crane $500), see 15:51 - 16:19. This also explicitly explains why Dee was at all the places he was (to find the photo Faith stole from Crane, which was subsequently lost or stolen once in her possession).
youtube.com/watch?v=jX0_68YhDNE
4. I disagree with your interpretation.
5/6. Vivian is certainly involved. I like the notion that she COULD be the witch, and that her fable entry is vague on purpose.
7/8. This is a lot of conjecture with not much evidence to back it up. In fact, Bigby does get something out of the book. all Hans knows is that there is a book. Georgie says (about who schedules the appointments at what time and where), "not me, THE GIRLS [make all the appointments]." Hans gave all the info he could, and it ended up leading Bigby to the crime scene.
I think you've misunderstood the twins' roles. I am correct about #3. I disagree with your interpretation of the evidence for the others (save number six). I like your idea of Viv being a possible witch. You're right that the crime scene needs to be analyzed, and I plan to post about it soon. You were coherent, no worries.
I don't want this to turn into a circular argument (though at least you're questioning my theory, not my character), so I will just post this, and you can have the last word if you want.
for the tweedles, i'm not calling them heroes, only saying that they're the ones being scripted to discover what's really happening. bigby k… moreeeps getting there first or getting in the way, tho. if they "solved" the mystery and the "lapdog of a sheriff" did nothing or couldn't solve it in time, it would be one more strike against bigby, and they become more prominent.
1-2/ faith had met with the sheriff, which was something unexpected. it's the evil/devious mind that looks at everyone else as being the same. if they had felt that faith stirring up the woodsman and having bigby get called over was more of an attempt to pass information rather than a chance meeting, that could be why she was killed. the head was then sent as a warning to "mind his own business". bigby had no idea what was going, and no transactions of information or anything else had occurred between him and faith, tho, so the head only served as the starter for his mission.… [view original content]
Why would Faith still wear the donkeyskin? She escaped from her dad and married Lawrence in the Homelands. She would have been relatively safe from her dad considering it looked like he died in the Homelands. The Hans argument has sense if the glamour only disguises the fable, but not reconfigure the fable's weight. I doubt Georgie, Faith, Bloody Mary, even the Tweedles would be able to move a dead troll body. Unless one of them is a troll. Do you think its possible that Lily's been wearing the skin? Could it be that she wearing it made Holly think she were missing, when she was hiding the fact she was with Woody? And that Woody played it off? Then maybe Lily gave it back to Faith because he was use to seeing her in it. And that's way he got so enraged.?
Faith stole a photo of Crane and Lilly together presumably playing out Crane's Snow White fetish and having sex. Crane hired Dee and Dum to get the picture back. Faith was at the Woodsman's apartment, so Dee and Dum checked there. It has nothing to do with whether she's alive or dead. Her file doesn't say she was hired for anything. It just says she stole a photo and they are trying to find it. While Crane's file has a price on it. My guess is they noted it in Faith's file because she's affiliated with them, just like they had a note about Cinderella supposedly being on vacation.
In other words, there's no evidence here that strongly points towards Faith still being alive. The only thing this evidence confirms is that Faith stole a picture from the Tweedles and they were hired to get it back, by Crane. Nothing pointing towards Faith hiring them for anything.
Why would Faith still wear the donkeyskin? She escaped from her dad and married Lawrence in the Homelands. She would have been relatively … moresafe from her dad considering it looked like he died in the Homelands. The Hans argument has sense if the glamour only disguises the fable, but not reconfigure the fable's weight. I doubt Georgie, Faith, Bloody Mary, even the Tweedles would be able to move a dead troll body. Unless one of them is a troll. Do you think its possible that Lily's been wearing the skin? Could it be that she wearing it made Holly think she were missing, when she was hiding the fact she was with Woody? And that Woody played it off? Then maybe Lily gave it back to Faith because he was use to seeing her in it. And that's way he got so enraged.?
Faith had a photo. But it is unknown what the content of that photo actually was, outside of the fact that she had a photo, commented on by the Tweedle's sent to recover it. The theory is based on the assumption blackmail was the motivation. There where several photo's implicating Crane at the crime scene outside of his involvement, Bigby's and Snow White's photos were amongst the photo's found.
Crane really wouldn't have been so foolish to leave these there implicating himself. Or get angry at the mirror when being found out. Why would the Blackmailer not seek profit. Because when implicating, now they won't be able to get return profit? Unless Blackmail wasn't the only motivation to the full crime, power, as when having Crane removed.
Why would the Tweedle's be seeking to capture their assumed employer Crane. When the Crooked Man takes him?
Why would Faith be taking a photo of Lilly and Crane. The happy threesome, but I am wondering what fantasy that is?
There are many pieces involved containing separate motives from a few different person's involvement, where does this fit into any suspected killer?
Faith stole a photo of Crane and Lilly together presumably playing out Crane's Snow White fetish and having sex. Crane hired Dee and Dum to… more get the picture back. Faith was at the Woodsman's apartment, so Dee and Dum checked there. It has nothing to do with whether she's alive or dead. Her file doesn't say she was hired for anything. It just says she stole a photo and they are trying to find it. While Crane's file has a price on it. My guess is they noted it in Faith's file because she's affiliated with them, just like they had a note about Cinderella supposedly being on vacation.
In other words, there's no evidence here that strongly points towards Faith still being alive. The only thing this evidence confirms is that Faith stole a picture from the Tweedles and they were hired to get it back, by Crane. Nothing pointing towards Faith hiring them for anything.
Don't know if this was mentioned already but did anyone else noticed how faith left hand was empty when we got to woody's apartment but after the fight escalates to outside while faith is nowhere to be seen. Until she appears to help finish the fight, of course, her left hand now has a ring on her middle finger with her family's insignia. Was here ring in woody's apartment and while we were busy fighting she retrieved her ring? Any ideas? (If this was already mentioned thn just disregard it)
Bad artwork like Grant's arm regrowing for the funeral fight. She always had her ring on. Maybe though she takes it off when she is at work the whole Ex husband thing got pay the bills... HAHAHA
Don't know if this was mentioned already but did anyone else noticed how faith left hand was empty when we got to woody's apartment but afte… morer the fight escalates to outside while faith is nowhere to be seen. Until she appears to help finish the fight, of course, her left hand now has a ring on her middle finger with her family's insignia. Was here ring in woody's apartment and while we were busy fighting she retrieved her ring? Any ideas? (If this was already mentioned thn just disregard it)
I really don't think so I've played the episode a couple times and it looks like they purposely zoom in on her hand or put it in the shot so tht u can notice. Also I have several pictures but don't no how to put them up. I think pics r disabled for now or something
Bad artwork like Grant's arm regrowing for the funeral fight. She always had her ring on. Maybe though she takes it off when she is at work the whole Ex husband thing got pay the bills... HAHAHA
A picture of Bigby and/or Snow wouldn't be a super big deal to be stolen. It's pretty heavily implied the IMPORTANT photos were stolen.
Someone else obviously left the photos there, either that or Crane left them there before Lilly was murdered, not expecting anyone to search his apartment, but I think that one is less likely. It's clear Crane REALLY didn't want his secret fetish exposed and once he figured out he was also suspected for a murder, he broke the mirror so he couldn't be tracked and arrested until he proved his innocence. I don't think anyone is blackmailing anyone, other than the Crooked Man threatening people to gibe him moneys if that counts. Like I said, there's nothing at all pointing to them doing a job for Faith. They had other files on people they weren't doing jobs for. They just made a note about her involvement in one of their other jobs.
They didn't want Crane telling Bigby and Snow anything. Clearly he knew something about the whole situation, hence "I didn't tell them anything!" "Stupid girls and their preposterous schemes" "He knows more than he's letting on" etc etc. Also, he might have been behind on his payments, since he clearly owed some money to the Crooked Man, so they might have been coming to discuss some payment options with him, not necessarily nicely.
I never said Faith was taking any photos of them, though she might have been, just to help her fellow prostitute Lilly out. The fantasy is between Crane and Lilly and is based off of Snow White's fable.
A lot of the supposed 'pieces' you brought up were just random assumptions you made that are most likely false. Besides, there's clearly quite a lot of people involved in this little Fabletown conspiracy. From the Tweedles' file cabinet alone we can see quite a few people whom are involved already, and then there's everyone else who's involved with it(nearly everyone shown so far has been involved in some way). So it's kind of hard to name a killer as of right now, but if I were to guess, I'd say Mary is a good bet other than it being too obvious. She has the Woodsman's axe, which has both the sharpness and the magic required to make the cuts found on the severed heads, and she's got the motives(working for the Crooked Man, who's connected to the Puddin n Pie, there was probably some kind of trouble involving Lilly and Faith so she cleaned it up), and she's got the means to kill(batshit crazy).
Faith had a photo. But it is unknown what the content of that photo actually was, outside of the fact that she had a photo, commented on by… more the Tweedle's sent to recover it. The theory is based on the assumption blackmail was the motivation. There where several photo's implicating Crane at the crime scene outside of his involvement, Bigby's and Snow White's photos were amongst the photo's found.
Crane really wouldn't have been so foolish to leave these there implicating himself. Or get angry at the mirror when being found out. Why would the Blackmailer not seek profit. Because when implicating, now they won't be able to get return profit? Unless Blackmail wasn't the only motivation to the full crime, power, as when having Crane removed.
Why would the Tweedle's be seeking to capture their assumed employer Crane. When the Crooked Man takes him?
Why would Faith be taking a photo of Lilly and Crane. The happy threesome, but I am… [view original content]
The ring identifies Ass girl from the fables entry. The ring was crucial at some point in their prior conversation, she should be seen wearing it. Specifically in being seen when she was smoking a cigarette. Although it is of quite mote importance.That whether or not during the big fight with Woody, you actually saw this ring on Faith. Except for when later seeing it when she was questioned about the fight, and sympathized with her, that you could actually identify this ring .
Bad artwork or assuming married people will do when they remove their rings for sexual encounters.HAHA. Although working girls often have so many more, when having that fist full of gaudy trinkets. Who cares about what any band means or doesn't mean, for any one night stand. Marriage is so overrated meaning nothing but a piece of toilet paper you can wipe each others asses with. HAHA.
I really don't think so I've played the episode a couple times and it looks like they purposely zoom in on her hand or put it in the shot so… more tht u can notice. Also I have several pictures but don't no how to put them up. I think pics r disabled for now or something
But this photo could have easily been lets imagine. A picture of Snow White for a Glamor tube, a photo of Lilly's murder if it had been in the past. A photo not the photo's which were found in the hotel room 207. Why would Faith have all these other photo's as well. Heck it could have even been a picture of a donkey. Faith might not have even know what the photo was, because she never even had it as in it was never found.
Crane would not have left the photo's at the room if he went there for murderous intent. He would not have kept the other photo's implicating his stalking within a brothel. Crane was framed by those photo's hence his anger. His fetish about office staff, leading to scandal, crime, murder, he was stealing public funds. These would be his later undoing. A Blackmailer would not leave these photo's there just to implicate Crane unless they are under direct threat themselves. Any Blackmailer would want more money, unless they now can gain power. Blackmail may have been adding to Crane's huge debts. Crane would not be carrying photo's around on him with any information implicating himself.
Faith would not be in the same room to take any pictures in any threesome. When the client Crane specifically only wants a fantasy about one particular person. That is not to say Faith at that time was that person. The other photo's in the collection were about a year old in the past taken last Christmas.
Crane knew something about what situation, his debt? Not telling Bigby and Snow White about what, information he had already had told them before arrival? He was taken by the Crooked Man for protection, or to be questioned possibly for underworld justice, as he is the number one suspect from the other investigation conducted by the Tweedle's and Crane has huge debt to the Crooked man which now he will not be able to pay. Crane had been abusing public office stealing money to fund his exploits, the expensive fantasy he had grown accustomed to. This was the source of his debts, although maybe including blackmail. For Crane to start Murdering other earners on the Crooked Mans books this would create problems. The Tweedle's are debt collectors for the Crooked man proven by information in their office amongst many other things.
If misread wrong I am not naming Crane as the murderer, in any explanations to the above posters comments. Although Crane is still a possibility, but quite unlikely as murder wasn't his fantasy, he wanted the services that fantasy at his cost to continue. Although quite randomly until things got out of hand and Blackmail could turn anybody into a ripper HAHAHA. Crane like so many others who are directly involved in this game's mystery.
You are throwing out such random assumptions backed by no credible tangible evidence. Please just stop, listen, asking yourself what facts you are speaking.
You are now assuming Mary to be the killer because she has the Woodsman Axe? Because she is employed by the Crook Man? Another assumption with no real evidence apart from an assumed weapon but with no motive apart from contract. A possibility but no more then anybody else
A picture of Bigby and/or Snow wouldn't be a super big deal to be stolen. It's pretty heavily implied the IMPORTANT photos were stolen.
… more Someone else obviously left the photos there, either that or Crane left them there before Lilly was murdered, not expecting anyone to search his apartment, but I think that one is less likely. It's clear Crane REALLY didn't want his secret fetish exposed and once he figured out he was also suspected for a murder, he broke the mirror so he couldn't be tracked and arrested until he proved his innocence. I don't think anyone is blackmailing anyone, other than the Crooked Man threatening people to gibe him moneys if that counts. Like I said, there's nothing at all pointing to them doing a job for Faith. They had other files on people they weren't doing jobs for. They just made a note about her involvement in one of their other jobs.
They didn't want Crane telling Bigby and Snow anything. Clearly … [view original content]
There is absolutely nothing stating that the photo was never found and it is downright stupid to think Crane would hire the costly Crooked Man to help him get back a picture of a donkey. If it's important enough for him to go to that much trouble to get back, it is obviously something he doesn't want getting out to the public. As of right now, the only thing we know of that fits that is his Snow fetish, so it must have something to do with that. "What if it's a picture for a Snow glamour"? He didn't need another at that moment as Lilly had already had one on her. Crane probably reused the same picture, since it would be unreasonable to think Snow had an endless supply of pictures for Crane to steal. In other words, none of your theories here have any evidence backing them up.
Who is trying to argue he's the murderer? It's pretty damn clear he's not. He does, however, know that his case does not look good, so he tried to cover his tracks until he could prove his innocence. No one blackmailed Crane. They committed a murder and tried to let him take the fall for it, likely planting the pictures there as evidence. He DOES however, have a Snow White fetish and he was indeed stealing funds, just in case you have doubts about that.
The other photos were from Crane stalking Snow White, in a completely different area. It's perfectly reasonable to think Faith was in the same room simply as a camerawoman, though much more likely Crane just had a camera set to automatically take pictures.
....I am seriously starting to doubt your ability to understand human speech. Crane knows something about the WHOLE situation. What ever is going on in Fabletown, involving the Puddin n Pie, the Crooked Man, Crane, Bigby. You know, the whole damn plot of the game? Are you even following the plot at ALL? Half of what you say makes no sense. He clearly knows something about the Crooked Man and some plan of theirs that he didn't tell Bigby and Snow, hence him saying "I didn't tell them anything!" when Mary met with them. Clearly, they aren't interested in any justice, though they likely want the money he owes them and probably want to make sure he keeps his mouth shut about what ever he knows about them. For the last time, there's no blackmail going on. Yes, I know he's not the murderer.
No shit. That's quite obvious. I have not once said Crane is the murderer, in fact I'm saying it's quite obvious that he's NOT.
Oooh....you don't speak good English, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm saying. I don't think you have much of a right to be getting into a debate with someone you can't understand. I was wondering why you have been making no sense. Side note, you're the one who has no tangible evidence. I've sited plenty of evidence, all you've cited is assumptions which I have repeatedly proven wrong.
No, I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying she is currently the lead suspect, because it wouldn't be unreasonable for the murderer to be revealed this late in the game, she has the weapon to do so, the personality to do so and the reason to do so. She might be the murderer, but if she is, she's probably just the Crooked Man's puppet in the matter. As you should be able to see, I have evidence backing my claim up. The Woodsman's axe fits the description of the killer's weapon perfectly, Mary is....evil and seems to enjoy killing, and she works for the Crooked Man who has an attachment to the Puddin n Pie. Like she said, she enjoys her job, she doesn't need any motive other than an order from the Crooked Man. In fact she doesn't need a motive at all to kill someone. She enjoys killing little girls for no reason as a hobby. If you'd like even more evidence, Toad Jr said the person who dumped Lilly's body in the water told someone to stop laughing at them, yet he heard no one laughing, which points to insanity. Mary is batshit crazy.
"A possibility but no more than anyone else." Most people don't even have a weapon capable of making the cuts scene on the severed heads or any motive at all to kill. Most fables shown so far would also probably have a very hard time bringing themselves to kill in cold blood because they aren't murderers.
But this photo could have easily been lets imagine. A picture of Snow White for a Glamor tube, a photo of Lilly's murder if it had been in t… morehe past. A photo not the photo's which were found in the hotel room 207. Why would Faith have all these other photo's as well. Heck it could have even been a picture of a donkey. Faith might not have even know what the photo was, because she never even had it as in it was never found.
Crane would not have left the photo's at the room if he went there for murderous intent. He would not have kept the other photo's implicating his stalking within a brothel. Crane was framed by those photo's hence his anger. His fetish about office staff, leading to scandal, crime, murder, he was stealing public funds. These would be his later undoing. A Blackmailer would not leave these photo's there just to implicate Crane unless they are under direct threat themselves. Any Blackmailer would want more money, unless the… [view original content]
The photo was never found we have never seen it, have we?. We know the photo wasn't found because we watched the Tweedle search Prince Lawrence Flat recovering nothing. We know the Tweedle didn't find it at Toad's or Woody's flat either. So where is this mysterious photo? Which could have been of absolutely anything at all.
I don't know where you are getting the assumption Crane had hired the Crooked Man or the Tweedle's? What are you basing this assumption on? Because of the fact that Crane is in debt to the Crooked man, so you must have assumed Crane has hired the Crooked Man and the Tweedle's? I get it, it could possibly be. Crane's tab for the prostitutes glamors, the cost of of keeping a VIP hotel room. Possibly the Crooked Man is Blackmailing Crane, along with all of the other associated business costs of Crane living out his fantasy? Crane has a massive bill to the Crooked Man it so staggering that it is the biggest debt of anybody else on the Crooked man's books. His debt is worth about 10k or more, large enough for Crane to be stealing public money from the Woodlands Office.
What can't you understand about Crane's fantasy. Specifically! What he wanted from his requested fantasy, his fetish, which he had left explicit instructions of what he wanted to see and wanted to have happen. Not some other prostitute who isn't in a costume. But wait I get it, now you will tell me, this other prostitute was also glamored as Snow White. Now she can be in the same room with a camera taking pictures, and have a strap-on. To buttfuck him later on Blackmail attempts. Yea right! The other photo's in the envelope were from a year ago last Christmas. Faith had a photo, not photo's, otherwise they would have said photo's.
Yes of course Crane knows something about the Crooked Man. But that is probably not why the Crooked Man is taking Crane in for questioning, or when possibly doing his own underworld justice. The Crooked man has been employing the Tweedle's shown from their business records, as his personal debt collectors, amongst other various associations. You must be so correct, really? That the Tweedle's were according to your assumption, are working for Crane. Because this is why they turned up to grab him. Saving Crane's head from.Bloody Mary's axe according to your assumption of her being the killer. Bloody Mary is the Crooked Man's own personal body guard traveling in his limo.The Crooked man grabbed Crane to protect him, is this what you are saying? It must be because of of his staggering debts, specifically Crane's inability to be able pay those debts back. According to you the Crooked Man was grabbing Crane, so that Crane wouldn't be able to talk about his debts, but we already have this information. Not in the assumption Georgie had phoned the Crooked man to prevent another murder.
going by your assumption on Blood Mary. After you played the first episode, you must have thought the Tweedle's are the killer? Then Episode 2 you must have thought it was Bluebeard? Now in episode 3, it is Bloody Mary? Gad I just don't know what to say to you? Who will the killer be in the next episode 4? Because the killer is revealed so late in the game according to yourself.
The rest of what you have said is incoherent insults. These aren't worth me commenting on, because posting your wit and literate prowess, would be like squashing a maggot.
There is absolutely nothing stating that the photo was never found and it is downright stupid to think Crane would hire the costly Crooked M… morean to help him get back a picture of a donkey. If it's important enough for him to go to that much trouble to get back, it is obviously something he doesn't want getting out to the public. As of right now, the only thing we know of that fits that is his Snow fetish, so it must have something to do with that. "What if it's a picture for a Snow glamour"? He didn't need another at that moment as Lilly had already had one on her. Crane probably reused the same picture, since it would be unreasonable to think Snow had an endless supply of pictures for Crane to steal. In other words, none of your theories here have any evidence backing them up.
Who is trying to argue he's the murderer? It's pretty damn clear he's not. He does, however, know that his case does not look good, so he tried to cover his… [view original content]
If they had found the photo, why would they go around showing people? Anyways, arguing with someone who can barely speak coherent English is getting boring, so I'll just skip to the good part of what you said, the end.
Yep, I said some insults, but they are far from incoherent unless you can barely speak English. You're one to talk about literate prowess, in English, which you need to brush up on before attempting another argument. But hey, look at the bright side, you win the argument. Since you can barely understand what I say, constantly repeat things I say and misunderstand things I say, the debate probably won't go anywhere, so I'm done.
The photo was never found we have never seen it, have we?. We know the photo wasn't found because we watched the Tweedle search Prince Lawre… morence Flat recovering nothing. We know the Tweedle didn't find it at Toad's or Woody's flat either. So where is this mysterious photo? Which could have been of absolutely anything at all.
I don't know where you are getting the assumption Crane had hired the Crooked Man or the Tweedle's? What are you basing this assumption on? Because of the fact that Crane is in debt to the Crooked man, so you must have assumed Crane has hired the Crooked Man and the Tweedle's? I get it, it could possibly be. Crane's tab for the prostitutes glamors, the cost of of keeping a VIP hotel room. Possibly the Crooked Man is Blackmailing Crane, along with all of the other associated business costs of Crane living out his fantasy? Crane has a massive bill to the Crooked Man it so staggering that it is the biggest debt of anybod… [view original content]
When have "They" the Tweedle's I assume your talking about? Although probably a mule, when specifically your ass? Ever shown anybody a photo. What are you talking about? The photo's not photo in the hotel, the photo in the glamor tube? Your comment is so incoherently stated. The rest of your illiteracy comes from an ego that you are somebody superior, when in fact you are nothing, just a stupid racist.
I wager money, your not English. It doesn't take a psychologist to work that out. Statistically the most intolerant are those who are not of any origin themselves, being more prone to correction, or are in studies. If by some ill fated chance that you possibly are, then you are an incredibly dumb idiot, lacking in basic mannerism and culture. Something which we British pride ourselves upon. Grow up and learn something. Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly.
If they had found the photo, why would they go around showing people? Anyways, arguing with someone who can barely speak coherent English i… mores getting boring, so I'll just skip to the good part of what you said, the end.
Yep, I said some insults, but they are far from incoherent unless you can barely speak English. You're one to talk about literate prowess, in English, which you need to brush up on before attempting another argument. But hey, look at the bright side, you win the argument. Since you can barely understand what I say, constantly repeat things I say and misunderstand things I say, the debate probably won't go anywhere, so I'm done.
You can barely even understand English. I said they had no reason to show anyone a photo, I never said they showed anyone. I'm saying just because we didn't see it doesn't mean they didn't find it. In fact it probably means they DID find it since BIGBY didn't find it. Do you comprehend that? I am far from a racist, but you shouldn't attempt a debate with someone when you don't even speak their language well enough to understand what they're saying. You have absolutely NO clue what I'm saying half the time. That's not my fault, and it doesn't make me racist for pointing out your lack of ability to properly understand English.
Hah, I'm American, and far from a kid. I bet you're going to try to use some American stereotype as leverage now. My point still stands, you can barely speak English. Half of what you say is difficult to understand and you have absolutely NO clue what I say the majority of the time. That's not my fault, nor does it make me dumb. YOU'RE the one basing your arguments on assumptions. I have used nearly solely facts while you have used assumptions that you have tried to play off as facts, then when I prove you wrong, you can't even understand what I'm saying to realize you've been proven wrong. I use facts, you don't understand what I'm saying, so I give up on trying to have a civil conversation.
What is the use in trying to talk to you if you don't even understand most of what I am saying?
When have "They" the Tweedle's I assume your talking about? Although probably a mule, when specifically your ass? Ever shown anybody a phot… moreo. What are you talking about? The photo's not photo in the hotel, the photo in the glamor tube? Your comment is so incoherently stated. The rest of your illiteracy comes from an ego that you are somebody superior, when in fact you are nothing, just a stupid racist.
I wager money, your not English. It doesn't take a psychologist to work that out. Statistically the most intolerant are those who are not of any origin themselves, being more prone to correction, or are in studies. If by some ill fated chance that you possibly are, then you are an incredibly dumb idiot, lacking in basic mannerism and culture. Something which we British pride ourselves upon. Grow up and learn something. Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly.
You can barely even understand English. I said they had no reason to show anyone a photo, I never said they showed anyone. I'm saying just… more because we didn't see it doesn't mean they didn't find it. In fact it probably means they DID find it since BIGBY didn't find it. Do you comprehend that? I am far from a racist, but you shouldn't attempt a debate with someone when you don't even speak their language well enough to understand what they're saying. You have absolutely NO clue what I'm saying half the time. That's not my fault, and it doesn't make me racist for pointing out your lack of ability to properly understand English.
Hah, I'm American, and far from a kid. I bet you're going to try to use some American stereotype as leverage now. My point still stands, you can barely speak English. Half of what you say is difficult to understand and you have absolutely NO clue what I say the majority of the time. That's not my fault, no… [view original content]
I'm not sure you even know the definition of racism. Just so you are aware, here is the definition - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Do tell, where have I mentioned ANYTHING about your race? I am simply stating your English is BROKEN, I can barely understand you at times and I know you feel the same way towards me, because there is an unmistakable language gap.
Ah, "I don't speak shit", so you call me racist for pointing out an extreme language gap which is causing severe problems for us even attempting to communicate, then you accuse me of being a racist and follow it up by being a racist your self. Clearly you do indeed have plenty against Americans, to insult me based off me being an American and to insult Americans in general.
I started this conversation out with the utmost respect, as I prefer to be polite to people I don't know. After attempting to debate(which I enjoy) with you and attempting to understand some communicative gaps between us, I got frustrated, tried to explain the communication errors between us, tried to tell you straight up that we were having these errors, then got sick of being civil after you refused to realize this.
Any respectable person of the English language could read what you have said in any one of your comments and tell you that you have made horrid errors that make what you say difficult to even understand. Do you have any idea how frustrating that is? You try to insult my language skills, yet I'm not the one making incoherent sentences. I'll give you an example.
"If misread wrong I am not naming Crane as the murderer" You should have either said "If I read wrong" or "If I misread". Saying "misread wrong" is redundant and is a double negative. That shows that your first language is not English.
"Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly." You should have either said "Using facts and communicating clearly" or "Use facts and communicate clearly". Another sign of broken English. Also, ironically, you told me to communicate clearly with broken English. That shows both irony and hypocrisy.
"Because she is employed by the Crook Man?". This one is almost too easy. THE CROOKED MAN. "Crook Man", only a complete retard or someone who does not speak proper English could POSSIBLY make that horrible of a language error.
That is just to name a few. I could go on and on with your errors, large to small. If there is a text limit on these messages, I would probably reach it with ease. You talk about MY grammar and language skills, while mine are nearly perfect in comparison to yours. You call me racist when I never bring your race into question then make racist comments at me directly afterwards.
I pride my self on not being a racist person. I don't judge people based off of their race, I judge them based off their actions. How could I possibly even be racist towards you before knowing your race? Saying that your English is broken is not a racist comment in the slightest.
Quite rightly in the full definition of racism. Let me break it down for you. I am clearly English, but you have a prejudice to anyone who is not. You have said many times, that I don't speak English, antagonism .The strangest thing is that you are not even English, leading to discrimination. You have not been using correct English grammar throughout many of your posts. Then you have a nerve to lecture, believing an egotistical assumption that you are somehow so superior to anybody else. But in fact, you are nothing more then a common racist.
The statistics have proven validity on the topic. Anyone who is not of an English origin is so much more intolerant when correcting the English language. This comes from a lack of the correct usage, when being more prone to correction, or are within studies. But you have been so headset, even attempting to lecture, when you yourself have been making the same mistakes within your sentencing. This is when using the most butchered broken form of the English language, heck we don't even have the same dictionaries.
You have been continually speaking absolutely incoherent shite. Pointing to some examples which aren't even there, some are the wrong examples given. If I am misread wrong, which is a statement, full stop. Shortened. If misread as wrong, full stop. Or If misread, full stop. Or If misread wrong, full stop. But care less, when It is obviously the meaning of don't misread me. The crook man point to where this abbrev is? Because it is still a reference that is legible. Most of what you have said has come from an egotistically racist view, that you are somehow so much better. When the shit you have been spewing doesn't at all stink.
I have dyslexia. My words often will read legibly, although my grammarisation and punctuations will sometimes suffer from my condition. I am sorry for having an IQ, but lack in proper sentence's construction. Meaning that you the above poster are an even bigger bigot then just an imagined racist, because your intolerance, coming from a lack of empathy, runs so much deeper. Hail Hitler, you racist piece of shit..
So what, if I am not employing an editor to help me out? Mostly everything I have commented on aside from some obvious jokes, have been based within and pointed towards facts. Unlike half the assumptions that you have been spewing out so constantly. This is when believing yourself as emphatically correct. Although you are also lacking in the same basic use of English, that anybody could so point out in many of your sentences..
For crystal clear clarity. Do you have a thesis in the English language? Are you a published author, or published editor? Do you professionally teach English? No! I really didn't think so. Because if you were, you would be tolerant, without your egotistically racist views. Meaning in other words, shut the hell up! When commenting about anybody else their use of English. Otherwise you will look like a complete an utter fool. A pity though that when being the fool, you will never ever learn anything, because with you it comes from racist discrimination, specifically a bigoted anger an intolerance.
I'm not sure you even know the definition of racism. Just so you are aware, here is the definition - prejudice, discrimination, or antagoni… moresm directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
Do tell, where have I mentioned ANYTHING about your race? I am simply stating your English is BROKEN, I can barely understand you at times and I know you feel the same way towards me, because there is an unmistakable language gap.
Ah, "I don't speak shit", so you call me racist for pointing out an extreme language gap which is causing severe problems for us even attempting to communicate, then you accuse me of being a racist and follow it up by being a racist your self. Clearly you do indeed have plenty against Americans, to insult me based off me being an American and to insult Americans in general.
I started this conversation out with the utmost respect, as I prefer to be polite to peopl… [view original content]
It is not prejudice to be pissed off at someone who has gotten into an argument with me because there is a language gap.
You claim all of the examples of your bad grammar that I gave are made up, correct? I'm just making sure I understand you correctly, because for most of that paragraph, I barely even understand what you were trying to say. Look for the examples I gave you, they are all there. I didn't make them up.
I will skip down to the dyslexia part. Why didn't you just say that? I assure you I would have been much more understanding. And does it also effect your ability to read and understand things? Because you kept repeating things I said, acting like I said the opposite. For instance, I'd say "Crane isn't the killer" and you'd also say "Crane isn't the killer". Or at least that's how I interpreted it, it can be difficult to understand you, like I said.
I have seen few obvious jokes. It's hard to spot a joke when it's written in such a way that I need to decipher it. That is not racist, I can't help it if I can't understand what you are saying.
No, but if you're trying to say you are any of those things, an English author or teacher, etc, either you're making little effort at having good grammar here or you're lying. I'm not racist for being pissed because I can't understand you half the time. I don't care what your nationality or race is, but I do care that I am having trouble understanding you and, at times, you seem to have trouble understanding me as well. I'm not mad at your race, I really don't care what race you are. I'm being a dick, sure, but not a racist.
Anyways, if dyslexia is the case here, you should have let me know, I would have been much more understanding. Also, I looked up bigot, it's a person who holds their beliefs higher than the beliefs of others, which I do not. I am simply pissed off at the annoying language gap between us, since it is clearly causing problems with communication between us. I am very sorry if I made you feel bad, I didn't realize you had dyslexia....since you didn't tell me until your last comment.
Quite rightly in the full definition of racism. Let me break it down for you. I am clearly English, but you have a prejudice to anyone who i… mores not. You have said many times, that I don't speak English, antagonism .The strangest thing is that you are not even English, leading to discrimination. You have not been using correct English grammar throughout many of your posts. Then you have a nerve to lecture, believing an egotistical assumption that you are somehow so superior to anybody else. But in fact, you are nothing more then a common racist.
The statistics have proven validity on the topic. Anyone who is not of an English origin is so much more intolerant when correcting the English language. This comes from a lack of the correct usage, when being more prone to correction, or are within studies. But you have been so headset, even attempting to lecture, when you yourself have been making the same mistakes within your sentencing. This is… [view original content]
It is not prejudice to be pissed off at someone who has gotten into an argument with me because there is a language gap.
You claim all … moreof the examples of your bad grammar that I gave are made up, correct? I'm just making sure I understand you correctly, because for most of that paragraph, I barely even understand what you were trying to say. Look for the examples I gave you, they are all there. I didn't make them up.
I will skip down to the dyslexia part. Why didn't you just say that? I assure you I would have been much more understanding. And does it also effect your ability to read and understand things? Because you kept repeating things I said, acting like I said the opposite. For instance, I'd say "Crane isn't the killer" and you'd also say "Crane isn't the killer". Or at least that's how I interpreted it, it can be difficult to understand you, like I said.
I have seen few obvious jokes. It's hard to spot a joke w… [view original content]
Just so you know, I flagged you. I come to this forum with intention to read interesting theories and observations that people made and what do I find? You again, raging and calling people names, while hijacking the entire pages of threads, making the same circular arguments for the third goddamn time!!!
I had enough of your behavior and I believe I'm not the only one! Note that I didn't ask for you to get banned, I just hope that, in case that moderators grant my wish and give you a warning, you'll take a note to stop making every thread a place for your offensive rants and start to behave like a mature, self-controlled and civilized human being.
I don't see why the boss of dee and dum would go for all that trouble for a photo. unless for these reasons
1: there something in the photo that is important.
2: he needs it for a glamour - blackmail someone?
And we don't know why Faith took it in the first place. she might have took more then one thing. when we meet her she mentions that she has to drop something off and that she thinks that she won't have to work for Georgie for much longer. So the item was worth something? a photo? Mmm don't think so, unless she was going to blackmail someone.
It is such a shame there are some people on here who just don't want to have civil conversations, failing to understand the meaning of that term.
Hijack: A ludicrous concept in any forum. Turning you into a fascist when entertaining and expressing such terminology. Condoning verbal genocide. Saying that one view undoubtedly your own is the only view of expression to be heard, everybody or anyone else is therefore considered as a hijack. However within a forum there is the common ability to making multiple posts. A circular argument is nonexistent, it will always take two people to argue.
Offensive rants: They should not be tolerated, yes that is correct: Please tell me? Why in your above comments poster, you have bothered posting at all? All you have said in those above comments is offensive rants. Quite unfortunately that you cannot practice what you preach. According to yourself the above poster you should be banned for what you have just done. In also further showing an ego which enables you to speak for any Mod's present. Instead of waiting for those Mod's to provide you with a solution. This behaviour is quite laughable to what your actual motives are, but instead proves your offensive nature.
Civil conversation: As the above poster has just expressed from their lack comments on this topic, they cannot entertain the concept. Where does this problem really exist?
Just so you know, I flagged you. I come to this forum with intention to read interesting theories and observations that people made and what… more do I find? You again, raging and calling people names, while hijacking the entire pages of threads, making the same circular arguments for the third goddamn time!!!
I had enough of your behavior and I believe I'm not the only one! Note that I didn't ask for you to get banned, I just hope that, in case that moderators grant my wish and give you a warning, you'll take a note to stop making every thread a place for your offensive rants and start to behave like a mature, self-controlled and civilized human being.
Don't bother posting, I won't reply!
Okay, I must be a fool for engaging in argument with you once again, since you're probably going to ignore everything I said and call me an idiot, cuckoo, fascist or arrogant prat with head up my ass again, but I still feel a need to settle this matter in a civilized way, so here it goes:
You have probably spent some time on other forums as well, you know what off-topic means, you are making entire pages of off-topic arguments where you also act offensive, that is what I mean when saying "hijacking". You are right, I agree that it takes two people to make an argument, I'm well aware that my posting right now just prolongs this argument and creates a further mess of Lars_Jacobson21888 thread, whose topic has nothing to do with what we are arguing right now, but I'm doing so in hope that we would reach some sort of understanding once and for all.
And why didn't you simply told me (and those other people you also got into argument with) that you are dyslexic in your first post? Instead you were acting like you didn't know what any of us talked about when saying that we couldn't understand you, when you know for a fact that you have a condition which causes you to sometime write sentences which are hard to follow (I probably sound like dick right now, but it is a fact). I really feel sorry for your condition and the trouble it must present to you, actually I can't even imagine how much of a pain in the ass it must be and I applaud you for communicating on forums despite that, I probably wouldn't even bother to do so.
If you have simply said "I'm dyslexic, so don't be a dick and show some more patience and understanding than you usually would" I believe that none of us would have a problem with that. Knowing what I know about your condition right now, I regret calling your post an incoherent, chaotic mess in my last reply to you in that other thread, but I couldn't have known that any incoherent writing had anything to do with a medical condition, I surely wouldn't have said that if you told me that you have dyslexia. None of these arguments would happen if you simply told us about it and didn't deny that your writing had flaws and start accusing us of attacking you (and being offensive in doing so), which neither myself Lars_Jacobson21888 nor Frostbite_Snipes have done.
But your condition still doesn't give you an excuse to call people racists, idiots, fascists, Hitlers and accuse them of making multiple accounts, which is what you always do when someone doesn't understand you. You call us being offensive, but you are the one who call people names, only thing any one of us did was say that your post was hard to understand. That is what I meant when said "offensive rants", or are you going to deny that you called us all those names listed above?
It is such a shame there are some people on here who just don't want to have civil conversations, failing to understand the meaning of that … moreterm.
Hijack: A ludicrous concept in any forum. Turning you into a fascist when entertaining and expressing such terminology. Condoning verbal genocide. Saying that one view undoubtedly your own is the only view of expression to be heard, everybody or anyone else is therefore considered as a hijack. However within a forum there is the common ability to making multiple posts. A circular argument is nonexistent, it will always take two people to argue.
Offensive rants: They should not be tolerated, yes that is correct: Please tell me? Why in your above comments poster, you have bothered posting at all? All you have said in those above comments is offensive rants. Quite unfortunately that you cannot practice what you preach. According to yourself the above poster you should be banned for what you… [view original content]
I don't see why the boss of dee and dum would go for all that trouble for a photo. unless for these reasons
1: there something in the p… morehoto that is important.
2: he needs it for a glamour - blackmail someone?
And we don't know why Faith took it in the first place. she might have took more then one thing. when we meet her she mentions that she has to drop something off and that she thinks that she won't have to work for Georgie for much longer. So the item was worth something? a photo? Mmm don't think so, unless she was going to blackmail someone.
Comments
i'm more inclined to think it's part of a set-up, with the tweedles cast as the heroic detectives discovering the "horrible truth".
As for the objection about the cigarettes: all Bigby would know at that point is the first part of what you said: "somebody smoked the same brand as him".
He knows it is somebody. That's it. Now if you want to argue that he should have been able to smell it on them, that's a different point. We only know someone was smoking one at the crime scene. We actually don't even know that much, as it may have just been put there. It could be someone trying to Frame Bigby, but that seems counterproductive, as they were framing Crane.
It could be a red-herring, but I doubt it. I think this is an important clue and is one the very few important clues that most players will notice. That said, If you assume the premise of my theory (that this was planned out), then you've got to think that the killer(s) would be smart enough to not smoke Huff N Puffs around Bigby, before or after the crime scene.
Can't remember exactly which conversation option gets this response but when Bigby and Faith are talking after the fight with Woody, Bigby can say "Maybe I should arrest you". Faith responds with something like "I won't be doing this for much longer, so now's your chance." Is she planning to stop hooking and find other work? Or does this mean that, as your theory suggests, she is behind all of this and will soon be going into hiding? Or does she know she's about to die (that's assuming that she is in fact dead, rather than pulling the puppet strings)? Whatever the case may be, her response is clearly foreshadowing the events that follow.
I think that if Faith does end up being the killer it would be, and please forgive the masochism here, a delightful punch in the gut. What I mean by that is, I like her character and I felt bad for her when she "died". I also felt bad for Bigby as he clearly liked her, and again for Lawrence when he found out what happened. Telltale did a great job of making me feel emotionally invested in these characters right from the get-go. But ultimately, I'm here for the story and I love a good twist!
I think your second notion is right; this is foreshadowing about her knowing more than she lets on.
I do not think she was just going to up and find another job, at least not a normal one.
I also don't believe she knew she was going to be killed. If that were the case, she would likely have asked for Bigby's help (she knows he's the sheriff). She also would not have been looking for trouble with a dangerous man (Woodsman).
Forgive me for my bad habit of correcting others, but I think you mean sadism instead of masochism. Either way, I agree with you. TTG did a great job gripping its audience right away. I too love a good twist, and that point of yours is some good evidence for one!
And I agree with the rest of your post. Looking forward to Comment 3!
the crooked man certainly seems to have plans for bigby's removal, but as for if he's directly involved in the murders or just manipulating things for his advantage is my question.
I still don't think CM was trying to frame Bigby right there. He was trying to frame Crane, which as you said would get Bigby angry and get him involved.
So that part I agree with, but I do not think CM's intent is to manipulate things have others kill Bigby. If he wanted Bigby dead, he could have told Bloody Mary to fill him with more silver or chop his head off. No, I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell have a past, and/or an obsession with Bigby.
I think CM is certainly complicit with the murder, but I don't think he personally did it himself. If you mean manipulating things for his [financial] advantage, I don't think that is the case. I think he is pulling the strings out of a sadistic desire to bring Bigby to a tipping point. I think CM and whoever is casting the silence spell want him puzzled, bewildered and tilting at windmills. Then, after he finally discovers who is behind this (discovers that "horrible truth" you mentioned), he/she/they will try to kill Bigby on their own. I think CM would be very disappointed if another person got the pleasure of killing Bigby.
the last bit doesn't quite fit right, imo... there were no signs of struggle, and crane wouldn't have been able to kill her himself, but if someone was glamoured to look like him at the time of her murder, it'd be possible that somebody had given her a false appointment, and hans, vivian, and georgie are the only 3 "uninvolved" with the murders that have that sort of access. i doubt it'd be georgie, and vivian doesn't have the muscle (though hans does), but vivian could be georgie's witch that cast the silence spell...
still does nothing to show just what the hell is goin on, tho...
1. If the 3 (Nerissa, Faith, and Lily) all knew about the picture, why would neither Nerissa nor Lily have neglected to ask the Tweedle's (whom you posit as rather beneficent detectives that everyone overlooks) for help? Well the silence spell is the obvious answer, however, Faith WAS able to ask the Tweedle's about the picture that SHE HERSELF said she stole from Crane. This implies it is part of some plan of hers and that she (unlike Nerissa and Lily) was able to inquire about it. The premise that all three knew about the picture implies the picture is important to all three somehow. Further, since it was an "unrelated and professional visit", why would they be "thinking the plan was exposed?" How does an unrelated visit fit into a thought out plan?
2. The head being sent to Bigby was certainly not to dissuade him from getting involved. It was a message (as both he and Snow say) to get him involved. He is the Sheriff, and to send the head of a murdered woman to the residence of a sheriff would do the exact opposite of scaring him to not get invovled.
3. Dee went to Woody's and Lawrence's as per Faith's (free, might I remind you) request to retrieve the photo.
4. How would Lily know that the photo would end up at 207 at that night? Also, how does Lily's relationship with Woody pose a problem to CM? I'm not saying it doesn't, but if you would like to elaborate, I'd be curious to know.
5. Vivian is very likely involved (at the very least complicit) with the murder. She schedules the "massages".
6. We have no evidence in the game that Vivian is a witch. You're, of course, allowed to speculate, but I am just pointing out there is no evidence. EDIT: Actually that isn't a bad thought. I am not convinced, but it has a bit of merit to it. Vivian is based on Vivianne of the Lake, who does have some magic powers. However, they are of a totally different nature (force/power) than a silence spell, and she is not referred to as a witch. TTG would have to take some poetic license here (which they do all the time), but I redact my objection of Vivian being a witch as a bad idea. If she is a witch, she certainly isn't Georgie's witch. More like Georgie would be Vivian's (word that rhymes with witch).
7. Why would Hans help Bigby out by telling him that there is such a book?
8. Since there were no signs of struggle, why would muscle even be needed for the murder? Hans' muscle wouldn't be needed.
1-2/ faith had met with the sheriff, which was something unexpected. it's the evil/devious mind that looks at everyone else as being the same. if they had felt that faith stirring up the woodsman and having bigby get called over was more of an attempt to pass information rather than a chance meeting, that could be why she was killed. the head was then sent as a warning to "mind his own business". bigby had no idea what was going, and no transactions of information or anything else had occurred between him and faith, tho, so the head only served as the starter for his mission. faith may have intended to inform him when she visited him later, but that's something we'll likely never know till the end.
3/ i'll have to replay the episode, cause i thought the missing picture was the thing that she had "stolen" from the crooked man, and the tweedles were hired by HIM to get it back.
4/ the girls were close friends, and people take things like the silence spell for granted. the girls literally CANT talk about stuff, so "they" don't have to worry about being exposed. but the thing about spells like that is people always try to find a loophole. what faith had stolen and hidden had to have been somewhere, if she didn't have it, and it wasn't at lawrence's place, it must have been hidden, but where and who else might know of it? lily had been to see woody numerous times, as we've been lead to believe, and then the one night that she asks faith to cover for he, faith winds up dead that night.
we still don't know for certain that lily was originally crane's prostitute, but a job is a job, and somebody would have to take over that room's... obligations. if all three girls knew of what was goin on, it's possible they knew how/where to hide stuff. the collection of photos is rather odd, in that the person was stalking the real snow white, and then have those pics mixed in with an odd and condemning photo. the way it was taken, crane should have known who took the picture, unless bloody mary is handy with a camera or he wanted a momento. that room just feels too strange.
6/ well, if u consider what bufkin said, anybody with the right knowledge and tools could probably create a glamour, so it's possible vivian has magical talents that lie elsewhere... yes, the silence spell might be a bit advanced for one whom we have no reason to believe has any magical talent what-so-ever, but then, even the fable lore thing in the game has pretty much no information on her. could be because there's nothing of note to say, or because if anyone knew her source, it'd be a dead give away.
7/ how much help was that book? a massive compilation of fake names. although it did show what glamour they were using, so there's evidence that somebody is keepin track of who is/does what and that glamours are being used. hans probably suggested it figuring there'd be nothing useful in there to incriminate him, if he was involved. if evidence provides absolutely no links, then why hide it? he comes off as seeming to be helpful, and while bigby got a room number out of it, it really told him nothing about what was goin on. not even the room told what happened and who did what.
8/ the body had to have gotten out of the room somehow. either it was carried out, or magic'd away. the blood makes it look like the body was dragged off the bed, so i'd guess muscle was atleast used in part. the likely people for that job are the tweedles, or hans.
one big thing that stands out, is that there were no signs of a struggle, as far as bruising, yet lily had grasped the flowers VERY tightly, expectantly, and it was a clean cut through her neck, yet, if i remember right, the bed didn't look to have had something like the axe go flying into it, so it should have been some other thing that killed her. one would assume the ribbon, and thus magic, but a show would have had to have been put on to keep her from getting suspicious until she was held down, or perhaps it happened as soon as she turned the music on and laid down. her ribbon was missing, for whatever reason.
if we consider that hans was the at the river telling the body to stop laughing at him, what reason would she have had to have laughed at him initially? what if he had gone in disguised as crane, and his... performance was laughable?
these are the points i can think of off the top of my head, in response. it's kinda late and my eyes are starting to burn, so i may not be as coherent as i think i am...
1-2. I completely disagree with your interpretation of the evidence, but you're entitled to your own opinion.
3. See video below for supporting evidence. Dee (who is CM's investigator) was hired by Faith to look for a lost/stolen photo that she stole from Crane. If you doubt that they work for CM, look at beauty's file at 15:00. "Wait till CM gives go ahead. Put squeeze." If you doubt faith stole the photo from Crane, asked the twins for help and is not being charged money by the them (the very same job for which they are charging Crane $500), see 15:51 - 16:19. This also explicitly explains why Dee was at all the places he was (to find the photo Faith stole from Crane, which was subsequently lost or stolen once in her possession).
youtube.com/watch?v=jX0_68YhDNE
4. I disagree with your interpretation.
5/6. Vivian is certainly involved. I like the notion that she COULD be the witch, and that her fable entry is vague on purpose.
7/8. This is a lot of conjecture with not much evidence to back it up. In fact, Bigby does get something out of the book. all Hans knows is that there is a book. Georgie says (about who schedules the appointments at what time and where), "not me, THE GIRLS [make all the appointments]." Hans gave all the info he could, and it ended up leading Bigby to the crime scene.
I think you've misunderstood the twins' roles. I am correct about #3. I disagree with your interpretation of the evidence for the others (save number six). I like your idea of Viv being a possible witch. You're right that the crime scene needs to be analyzed, and I plan to post about it soon. You were coherent, no worries.
I don't want this to turn into a circular argument (though at least you're questioning my theory, not my character), so I will just post this, and you can have the last word if you want.
In other words, there's no evidence here that strongly points towards Faith still being alive. The only thing this evidence confirms is that Faith stole a picture from the Tweedles and they were hired to get it back, by Crane. Nothing pointing towards Faith hiring them for anything.
Crane really wouldn't have been so foolish to leave these there implicating himself. Or get angry at the mirror when being found out. Why would the Blackmailer not seek profit. Because when implicating, now they won't be able to get return profit? Unless Blackmail wasn't the only motivation to the full crime, power, as when having Crane removed.
Why would the Tweedle's be seeking to capture their assumed employer Crane. When the Crooked Man takes him?
Why would Faith be taking a photo of Lilly and Crane. The happy threesome, but I am wondering what fantasy that is?
There are many pieces involved containing separate motives from a few different person's involvement, where does this fit into any suspected killer?
Someone else obviously left the photos there, either that or Crane left them there before Lilly was murdered, not expecting anyone to search his apartment, but I think that one is less likely. It's clear Crane REALLY didn't want his secret fetish exposed and once he figured out he was also suspected for a murder, he broke the mirror so he couldn't be tracked and arrested until he proved his innocence. I don't think anyone is blackmailing anyone, other than the Crooked Man threatening people to gibe him moneys if that counts. Like I said, there's nothing at all pointing to them doing a job for Faith. They had other files on people they weren't doing jobs for. They just made a note about her involvement in one of their other jobs.
They didn't want Crane telling Bigby and Snow anything. Clearly he knew something about the whole situation, hence "I didn't tell them anything!" "Stupid girls and their preposterous schemes" "He knows more than he's letting on" etc etc. Also, he might have been behind on his payments, since he clearly owed some money to the Crooked Man, so they might have been coming to discuss some payment options with him, not necessarily nicely.
I never said Faith was taking any photos of them, though she might have been, just to help her fellow prostitute Lilly out. The fantasy is between Crane and Lilly and is based off of Snow White's fable.
A lot of the supposed 'pieces' you brought up were just random assumptions you made that are most likely false. Besides, there's clearly quite a lot of people involved in this little Fabletown conspiracy. From the Tweedles' file cabinet alone we can see quite a few people whom are involved already, and then there's everyone else who's involved with it(nearly everyone shown so far has been involved in some way). So it's kind of hard to name a killer as of right now, but if I were to guess, I'd say Mary is a good bet other than it being too obvious. She has the Woodsman's axe, which has both the sharpness and the magic required to make the cuts found on the severed heads, and she's got the motives(working for the Crooked Man, who's connected to the Puddin n Pie, there was probably some kind of trouble involving Lilly and Faith so she cleaned it up), and she's got the means to kill(batshit crazy).
Bad artwork or assuming married people will do when they remove their rings for sexual encounters.HAHA. Although working girls often have so many more, when having that fist full of gaudy trinkets. Who cares about what any band means or doesn't mean, for any one night stand. Marriage is so overrated meaning nothing but a piece of toilet paper you can wipe each others asses with. HAHA.
Crane would not have left the photo's at the room if he went there for murderous intent. He would not have kept the other photo's implicating his stalking within a brothel. Crane was framed by those photo's hence his anger. His fetish about office staff, leading to scandal, crime, murder, he was stealing public funds. These would be his later undoing. A Blackmailer would not leave these photo's there just to implicate Crane unless they are under direct threat themselves. Any Blackmailer would want more money, unless they now can gain power. Blackmail may have been adding to Crane's huge debts. Crane would not be carrying photo's around on him with any information implicating himself.
Faith would not be in the same room to take any pictures in any threesome. When the client Crane specifically only wants a fantasy about one particular person. That is not to say Faith at that time was that person. The other photo's in the collection were about a year old in the past taken last Christmas.
Crane knew something about what situation, his debt? Not telling Bigby and Snow White about what, information he had already had told them before arrival? He was taken by the Crooked Man for protection, or to be questioned possibly for underworld justice, as he is the number one suspect from the other investigation conducted by the Tweedle's and Crane has huge debt to the Crooked man which now he will not be able to pay. Crane had been abusing public office stealing money to fund his exploits, the expensive fantasy he had grown accustomed to. This was the source of his debts, although maybe including blackmail. For Crane to start Murdering other earners on the Crooked Mans books this would create problems. The Tweedle's are debt collectors for the Crooked man proven by information in their office amongst many other things.
If misread wrong I am not naming Crane as the murderer, in any explanations to the above posters comments. Although Crane is still a possibility, but quite unlikely as murder wasn't his fantasy, he wanted the services that fantasy at his cost to continue. Although quite randomly until things got out of hand and Blackmail could turn anybody into a ripper HAHAHA. Crane like so many others who are directly involved in this game's mystery.
You are throwing out such random assumptions backed by no credible tangible evidence. Please just stop, listen, asking yourself what facts you are speaking.
You are now assuming Mary to be the killer because she has the Woodsman Axe? Because she is employed by the Crook Man? Another assumption with no real evidence apart from an assumed weapon but with no motive apart from contract. A possibility but no more then anybody else
Who is trying to argue he's the murderer? It's pretty damn clear he's not. He does, however, know that his case does not look good, so he tried to cover his tracks until he could prove his innocence. No one blackmailed Crane. They committed a murder and tried to let him take the fall for it, likely planting the pictures there as evidence. He DOES however, have a Snow White fetish and he was indeed stealing funds, just in case you have doubts about that.
The other photos were from Crane stalking Snow White, in a completely different area. It's perfectly reasonable to think Faith was in the same room simply as a camerawoman, though much more likely Crane just had a camera set to automatically take pictures.
....I am seriously starting to doubt your ability to understand human speech. Crane knows something about the WHOLE situation. What ever is going on in Fabletown, involving the Puddin n Pie, the Crooked Man, Crane, Bigby. You know, the whole damn plot of the game? Are you even following the plot at ALL? Half of what you say makes no sense. He clearly knows something about the Crooked Man and some plan of theirs that he didn't tell Bigby and Snow, hence him saying "I didn't tell them anything!" when Mary met with them. Clearly, they aren't interested in any justice, though they likely want the money he owes them and probably want to make sure he keeps his mouth shut about what ever he knows about them. For the last time, there's no blackmail going on. Yes, I know he's not the murderer.
No shit. That's quite obvious. I have not once said Crane is the murderer, in fact I'm saying it's quite obvious that he's NOT.
Oooh....you don't speak good English, so you have absolutely no clue what I'm saying. I don't think you have much of a right to be getting into a debate with someone you can't understand. I was wondering why you have been making no sense. Side note, you're the one who has no tangible evidence. I've sited plenty of evidence, all you've cited is assumptions which I have repeatedly proven wrong.
No, I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying she is currently the lead suspect, because it wouldn't be unreasonable for the murderer to be revealed this late in the game, she has the weapon to do so, the personality to do so and the reason to do so. She might be the murderer, but if she is, she's probably just the Crooked Man's puppet in the matter. As you should be able to see, I have evidence backing my claim up. The Woodsman's axe fits the description of the killer's weapon perfectly, Mary is....evil and seems to enjoy killing, and she works for the Crooked Man who has an attachment to the Puddin n Pie. Like she said, she enjoys her job, she doesn't need any motive other than an order from the Crooked Man. In fact she doesn't need a motive at all to kill someone. She enjoys killing little girls for no reason as a hobby. If you'd like even more evidence, Toad Jr said the person who dumped Lilly's body in the water told someone to stop laughing at them, yet he heard no one laughing, which points to insanity. Mary is batshit crazy.
"A possibility but no more than anyone else." Most people don't even have a weapon capable of making the cuts scene on the severed heads or any motive at all to kill. Most fables shown so far would also probably have a very hard time bringing themselves to kill in cold blood because they aren't murderers.
I don't know where you are getting the assumption Crane had hired the Crooked Man or the Tweedle's? What are you basing this assumption on? Because of the fact that Crane is in debt to the Crooked man, so you must have assumed Crane has hired the Crooked Man and the Tweedle's? I get it, it could possibly be. Crane's tab for the prostitutes glamors, the cost of of keeping a VIP hotel room. Possibly the Crooked Man is Blackmailing Crane, along with all of the other associated business costs of Crane living out his fantasy? Crane has a massive bill to the Crooked Man it so staggering that it is the biggest debt of anybody else on the Crooked man's books. His debt is worth about 10k or more, large enough for Crane to be stealing public money from the Woodlands Office.
What can't you understand about Crane's fantasy. Specifically! What he wanted from his requested fantasy, his fetish, which he had left explicit instructions of what he wanted to see and wanted to have happen. Not some other prostitute who isn't in a costume. But wait I get it, now you will tell me, this other prostitute was also glamored as Snow White. Now she can be in the same room with a camera taking pictures, and have a strap-on. To buttfuck him later on Blackmail attempts. Yea right! The other photo's in the envelope were from a year ago last Christmas. Faith had a photo, not photo's, otherwise they would have said photo's.
Yes of course Crane knows something about the Crooked Man. But that is probably not why the Crooked Man is taking Crane in for questioning, or when possibly doing his own underworld justice. The Crooked man has been employing the Tweedle's shown from their business records, as his personal debt collectors, amongst other various associations. You must be so correct, really? That the Tweedle's were according to your assumption, are working for Crane. Because this is why they turned up to grab him. Saving Crane's head from.Bloody Mary's axe according to your assumption of her being the killer. Bloody Mary is the Crooked Man's own personal body guard traveling in his limo.The Crooked man grabbed Crane to protect him, is this what you are saying? It must be because of of his staggering debts, specifically Crane's inability to be able pay those debts back. According to you the Crooked Man was grabbing Crane, so that Crane wouldn't be able to talk about his debts, but we already have this information. Not in the assumption Georgie had phoned the Crooked man to prevent another murder.
going by your assumption on Blood Mary. After you played the first episode, you must have thought the Tweedle's are the killer? Then Episode 2 you must have thought it was Bluebeard? Now in episode 3, it is Bloody Mary? Gad I just don't know what to say to you? Who will the killer be in the next episode 4? Because the killer is revealed so late in the game according to yourself.
The rest of what you have said is incoherent insults. These aren't worth me commenting on, because posting your wit and literate prowess, would be like squashing a maggot.
Yep, I said some insults, but they are far from incoherent unless you can barely speak English. You're one to talk about literate prowess, in English, which you need to brush up on before attempting another argument. But hey, look at the bright side, you win the argument. Since you can barely understand what I say, constantly repeat things I say and misunderstand things I say, the debate probably won't go anywhere, so I'm done.
I wager money, your not English. It doesn't take a psychologist to work that out. Statistically the most intolerant are those who are not of any origin themselves, being more prone to correction, or are in studies. If by some ill fated chance that you possibly are, then you are an incredibly dumb idiot, lacking in basic mannerism and culture. Something which we British pride ourselves upon. Grow up and learn something. Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly.
Hah, I'm American, and far from a kid. I bet you're going to try to use some American stereotype as leverage now. My point still stands, you can barely speak English. Half of what you say is difficult to understand and you have absolutely NO clue what I say the majority of the time. That's not my fault, nor does it make me dumb. YOU'RE the one basing your arguments on assumptions. I have used nearly solely facts while you have used assumptions that you have tried to play off as facts, then when I prove you wrong, you can't even understand what I'm saying to realize you've been proven wrong. I use facts, you don't understand what I'm saying, so I give up on trying to have a civil conversation.
What is the use in trying to talk to you if you don't even understand most of what I am saying?
Do tell, where have I mentioned ANYTHING about your race? I am simply stating your English is BROKEN, I can barely understand you at times and I know you feel the same way towards me, because there is an unmistakable language gap.
Ah, "I don't speak shit", so you call me racist for pointing out an extreme language gap which is causing severe problems for us even attempting to communicate, then you accuse me of being a racist and follow it up by being a racist your self. Clearly you do indeed have plenty against Americans, to insult me based off me being an American and to insult Americans in general.
I started this conversation out with the utmost respect, as I prefer to be polite to people I don't know. After attempting to debate(which I enjoy) with you and attempting to understand some communicative gaps between us, I got frustrated, tried to explain the communication errors between us, tried to tell you straight up that we were having these errors, then got sick of being civil after you refused to realize this.
Any respectable person of the English language could read what you have said in any one of your comments and tell you that you have made horrid errors that make what you say difficult to even understand. Do you have any idea how frustrating that is? You try to insult my language skills, yet I'm not the one making incoherent sentences. I'll give you an example.
"If misread wrong I am not naming Crane as the murderer" You should have either said "If I read wrong" or "If I misread". Saying "misread wrong" is redundant and is a double negative. That shows that your first language is not English.
"Stop basing your arguments on assumptions, using facts and communicate clearly." You should have either said "Using facts and communicating clearly" or "Use facts and communicate clearly". Another sign of broken English. Also, ironically, you told me to communicate clearly with broken English. That shows both irony and hypocrisy.
"Because she is employed by the Crook Man?". This one is almost too easy. THE CROOKED MAN. "Crook Man", only a complete retard or someone who does not speak proper English could POSSIBLY make that horrible of a language error.
That is just to name a few. I could go on and on with your errors, large to small. If there is a text limit on these messages, I would probably reach it with ease. You talk about MY grammar and language skills, while mine are nearly perfect in comparison to yours. You call me racist when I never bring your race into question then make racist comments at me directly afterwards.
I pride my self on not being a racist person. I don't judge people based off of their race, I judge them based off their actions. How could I possibly even be racist towards you before knowing your race? Saying that your English is broken is not a racist comment in the slightest.
The statistics have proven validity on the topic. Anyone who is not of an English origin is so much more intolerant when correcting the English language. This comes from a lack of the correct usage, when being more prone to correction, or are within studies. But you have been so headset, even attempting to lecture, when you yourself have been making the same mistakes within your sentencing. This is when using the most butchered broken form of the English language, heck we don't even have the same dictionaries.
You have been continually speaking absolutely incoherent shite. Pointing to some examples which aren't even there, some are the wrong examples given. If I am misread wrong, which is a statement, full stop. Shortened. If misread as wrong, full stop. Or If misread, full stop. Or If misread wrong, full stop. But care less, when It is obviously the meaning of don't misread me. The crook man point to where this abbrev is? Because it is still a reference that is legible. Most of what you have said has come from an egotistically racist view, that you are somehow so much better. When the shit you have been spewing doesn't at all stink.
I have dyslexia. My words often will read legibly, although my grammarisation and punctuations will sometimes suffer from my condition. I am sorry for having an IQ, but lack in proper sentence's construction. Meaning that you the above poster are an even bigger bigot then just an imagined racist, because your intolerance, coming from a lack of empathy, runs so much deeper. Hail Hitler, you racist piece of shit..
So what, if I am not employing an editor to help me out? Mostly everything I have commented on aside from some obvious jokes, have been based within and pointed towards facts. Unlike half the assumptions that you have been spewing out so constantly. This is when believing yourself as emphatically correct. Although you are also lacking in the same basic use of English, that anybody could so point out in many of your sentences..
For crystal clear clarity. Do you have a thesis in the English language? Are you a published author, or published editor? Do you professionally teach English? No! I really didn't think so. Because if you were, you would be tolerant, without your egotistically racist views. Meaning in other words, shut the hell up! When commenting about anybody else their use of English. Otherwise you will look like a complete an utter fool. A pity though that when being the fool, you will never ever learn anything, because with you it comes from racist discrimination, specifically a bigoted anger an intolerance.
You claim all of the examples of your bad grammar that I gave are made up, correct? I'm just making sure I understand you correctly, because for most of that paragraph, I barely even understand what you were trying to say. Look for the examples I gave you, they are all there. I didn't make them up.
I will skip down to the dyslexia part. Why didn't you just say that? I assure you I would have been much more understanding. And does it also effect your ability to read and understand things? Because you kept repeating things I said, acting like I said the opposite. For instance, I'd say "Crane isn't the killer" and you'd also say "Crane isn't the killer". Or at least that's how I interpreted it, it can be difficult to understand you, like I said.
I have seen few obvious jokes. It's hard to spot a joke when it's written in such a way that I need to decipher it. That is not racist, I can't help it if I can't understand what you are saying.
No, but if you're trying to say you are any of those things, an English author or teacher, etc, either you're making little effort at having good grammar here or you're lying. I'm not racist for being pissed because I can't understand you half the time. I don't care what your nationality or race is, but I do care that I am having trouble understanding you and, at times, you seem to have trouble understanding me as well. I'm not mad at your race, I really don't care what race you are. I'm being a dick, sure, but not a racist.
Anyways, if dyslexia is the case here, you should have let me know, I would have been much more understanding. Also, I looked up bigot, it's a person who holds their beliefs higher than the beliefs of others, which I do not. I am simply pissed off at the annoying language gap between us, since it is clearly causing problems with communication between us. I am very sorry if I made you feel bad, I didn't realize you had dyslexia....since you didn't tell me until your last comment.
I had enough of your behavior and I believe I'm not the only one! Note that I didn't ask for you to get banned, I just hope that, in case that moderators grant my wish and give you a warning, you'll take a note to stop making every thread a place for your offensive rants and start to behave like a mature, self-controlled and civilized human being.
Don't bother posting, I won't reply!
1: there something in the photo that is important.
2: he needs it for a glamour - blackmail someone?
And we don't know why Faith took it in the first place. she might have took more then one thing. when we meet her she mentions that she has to drop something off and that she thinks that she won't have to work for Georgie for much longer. So the item was worth something? a photo? Mmm don't think so, unless she was going to blackmail someone.
Hijack: A ludicrous concept in any forum. Turning you into a fascist when entertaining and expressing such terminology. Condoning verbal genocide. Saying that one view undoubtedly your own is the only view of expression to be heard, everybody or anyone else is therefore considered as a hijack. However within a forum there is the common ability to making multiple posts. A circular argument is nonexistent, it will always take two people to argue.
Offensive rants: They should not be tolerated, yes that is correct: Please tell me? Why in your above comments poster, you have bothered posting at all? All you have said in those above comments is offensive rants. Quite unfortunately that you cannot practice what you preach. According to yourself the above poster you should be banned for what you have just done. In also further showing an ego which enables you to speak for any Mod's present. Instead of waiting for those Mod's to provide you with a solution. This behaviour is quite laughable to what your actual motives are, but instead proves your offensive nature.
Civil conversation: As the above poster has just expressed from their lack comments on this topic, they cannot entertain the concept. Where does this problem really exist?
You have probably spent some time on other forums as well, you know what off-topic means, you are making entire pages of off-topic arguments where you also act offensive, that is what I mean when saying "hijacking". You are right, I agree that it takes two people to make an argument, I'm well aware that my posting right now just prolongs this argument and creates a further mess of Lars_Jacobson21888 thread, whose topic has nothing to do with what we are arguing right now, but I'm doing so in hope that we would reach some sort of understanding once and for all.
And why didn't you simply told me (and those other people you also got into argument with) that you are dyslexic in your first post? Instead you were acting like you didn't know what any of us talked about when saying that we couldn't understand you, when you know for a fact that you have a condition which causes you to sometime write sentences which are hard to follow (I probably sound like dick right now, but it is a fact). I really feel sorry for your condition and the trouble it must present to you, actually I can't even imagine how much of a pain in the ass it must be and I applaud you for communicating on forums despite that, I probably wouldn't even bother to do so.
If you have simply said "I'm dyslexic, so don't be a dick and show some more patience and understanding than you usually would" I believe that none of us would have a problem with that. Knowing what I know about your condition right now, I regret calling your post an incoherent, chaotic mess in my last reply to you in that other thread, but I couldn't have known that any incoherent writing had anything to do with a medical condition, I surely wouldn't have said that if you told me that you have dyslexia. None of these arguments would happen if you simply told us about it and didn't deny that your writing had flaws and start accusing us of attacking you (and being offensive in doing so), which neither myself Lars_Jacobson21888 nor Frostbite_Snipes have done.
But your condition still doesn't give you an excuse to call people racists, idiots, fascists, Hitlers and accuse them of making multiple accounts, which is what you always do when someone doesn't understand you. You call us being offensive, but you are the one who call people names, only thing any one of us did was say that your post was hard to understand. That is what I meant when said "offensive rants", or are you going to deny that you called us all those names listed above?