For me, this sounds awfully convenient. They can justify the hub's exclusion or inclusion based on the 'pace of the story' or the 'narrative… more', but you then question 'why were they in the 1st season then'? For example, @bubbledncr references the handing out of food as a task that required the use of a hub, but surely telltale could've left that bit out? They could've just had Lee hand the food out to people, or had the food dished out on a 1st come 1st served basis. But instead they cleverly built a whole discursive event, involving several characters, choices and consequences, from a relatively menial task, something I don't think would be beyond them in this season. While I accept a lack of trust in Clem MIGHT have been good enough a reason to avoid setting similar tasks for the player this season, that argument is quickly negated when you consider the fact she's been volunteered by the group to do literally everything else.
What bother… [view original content]
Oh my gosh, hubs hubs hubs. What is it about hubs that make them so appealing? It's literally walking around. No meaningful choices, no meaningful puzzles, no meaningful reason to have them. The last game was by itself linear, and hubs didn't change that linearness. It placed you in an enclosed space and had you walk around till you finally figure out how to get to the next part, if you're done with all the pointless puzzles that make no difference to the story, of course.
I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
400 days I can see, but we shouldn't expect much. I mean, I expect WAY more than a few sentences of dialogue in some sort of easter egg type thing, but not much more. I expect more in episode four from them. I didn't get the DLC, I am waiting for this season to be complete to see if it is worth it, and so far, I'm not going to pay 4 bucks for a few determent sentences of dialogue. I mean, come on, they made entire backstories with these characters, and they are just going to say one line of dialogue? No. We need more from Telltale.
I thought some of those things were explained. The people at the lake were shot up by Carver in search for the Cabin Group. I want to know more about George. Rebecca changed to make amends to Clem, remember? She thought Clem was with Carver, and we saw how much she feared him.
Anyway: the season is good, but there is so much missing potential that can be put in. If more unnf was put into this game, it would be polished and perfect. However, their schedule is pretty big. I give them the benefit of the doubt a lot, but that was because I thought they would add a bit more story branching with characters. Even if this season doesn't end up the way I think it will, I wont regret spending that twenty bucks to enjoy it. For what it is, it's good; for what it could be, it falls a bit short.
They are biting off a bit more than they can chew. Hopefully, they can swallow and start eating in smaller bites.
> Oh my gosh, hubs hubs hubs. What is it about hubs that make them so appealing? It's literally walking around. No meaningful choices, no meaningful puzzles, no meaningful reason to have them.
I most respectfully, but oh so strongly disagree. As always, on this.
@drewtheman68 wrote:
"People associate the hubs with getting to know other characters, the knowledge from these encounters then influenced a player's choice over who to save, who they liked, who they formed bonds with. "
Also what I wrote one page back:
"The point that I am trying to make here is: That small measure of interactivity was in itself a choice that was presented to you, and that in some cases served to change your perspective on some characters or simply made you appreciate them more as characters. None of those conversations were forced upon you (save for *A New Day*), you had the freedom to choose who to talk to and your playthrough was almost always richer for it."
It was not necessarily the puzzles that make me look back so fondly on those areas, although some people liked even those; they make some more traditional players feel more involved in what is going on, what they are trying to achieve. I can do without puzzles, but not to what they were attached to. I stand by what I and others say; they are helpful tools in the telling of the story because that exposition and hearing what our cast had to say about their situation and about *you*, the protagonist, made them feel more human.
> I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
Menacing and nuanced, methinks. I do think that his death will play an important part in Clementine's development as survivor and character, depending on what you chose and what she saw the man do, in the name of survival of the fittest.
> I mean, come on, they made entire backstories with these characters, and they are just going to say one line of dialogue? No. We need more from Telltale.
It is all the more disappointing when you see what an interesting concept 400 days was. The backstories are done well enough, and to see those characters "wasted" in a sense is... frustrating. It probably is too much work to put all those variables into the story, but still.
> I give them the benefit of the doubt a lot, but that was because I thought they would add a bit more story branching with characters.
It would certainly make replays and it overall feel more fresh, but story branching should be accompanied with "social branching", too. Not just have a death or determinant moment affect the plot, but the perception of the cast towards you, their situation, etc. Going back to hubs, these segments could vary from playthrough to playthrough, depending on what you did. The ideas are not that incompatible, to me.
> For what it is, it's good; for what it could be, it falls a bit short.
Bottom line for most of us.
EDIT: Sorry for the long ass post, but if you read it, I love you. :D If not, I don't blame you.
Oh my gosh, hubs hubs hubs. What is it about hubs that make them so appealing? It's literally walking around. No meaningful choices, no m… moreeaningful puzzles, no meaningful reason to have them. The last game was by itself linear, and hubs didn't change that linearness. It placed you in an enclosed space and had you walk around till you finally figure out how to get to the next part, if you're done with all the pointless puzzles that make no difference to the story, of course.
I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
400 days I can see, but we shouldn't expect much. I mean, I expect WAY more than a few sentences of dialogue in some sort of easter egg type thing, but not much more. I expect more in episode four from them. I didn't get the DLC, I am waiting for this season to … [view original content]
You know what makes the whole thing worse? The basic characters they have started are already SO COMPELLING on their own that with just a bit more fleshing out, I could easily be as attached to them as season 1 characters. I mean, Luke has already amassed a fanbase for a reason and same with Nick. Can you imagine if we had more fleshed out relationships with them or more character development and background information? People would be absolutely enamored with them. They have these characters that have SO much potential and to see it thrown aside for more Kenny development or focus on how "dangerous" their situation is gets so frustrating.
If it was season 1 caliber writing with these characters, I may just have enjoyed this season even more than the last (except for Lee, of course. Lee is in a league of his own). As for keeping up hope, well it's hard when we're already more than halfway through the season.
Actually, having Clem as such a young girl opens up a lot of doors as to how characters will talk to her. Feasibly, they might open up to her more easily than they would open up to Lee. They could have done so much with this, had her remind characters of younger sisters or nieces. Have them relieved to see another child still alive in this brutal new world and have protective feelings develop beyond the bit we have with Luke. Having the protagonist be so young could have been such a boon to character interactions but they've wasted that potential by never having those hub moments and having all the adults treat Clementine purely like an adult even when it's a bit unbelievable.
For me, this sounds awfully convenient. They can justify the hub's exclusion or inclusion based on the 'pace of the story' or the 'narrative… more', but you then question 'why were they in the 1st season then'? For example, @bubbledncr references the handing out of food as a task that required the use of a hub, but surely telltale could've left that bit out? They could've just had Lee hand the food out to people, or had the food dished out on a 1st come 1st served basis. But instead they cleverly built a whole discursive event, involving several characters, choices and consequences, from a relatively menial task, something I don't think would be beyond them in this season. While I accept a lack of trust in Clem MIGHT have been good enough a reason to avoid setting similar tasks for the player this season, that argument is quickly negated when you consider the fact she's been volunteered by the group to do literally everything else.
What bother… [view original content]
100% agree. I was really let down by episode 3's lack of character focus/development. The fact that we only have 2 more episodes before they will all inevitably DIE makes it that much worse!
A+, OP. Agree 100%
You know what makes the whole thing worse? The basic characters they have started are already SO COMPELLING on their… more own that with just a bit more fleshing out, I could easily be as attached to them as season 1 characters. I mean, Luke has already amassed a fanbase for a reason and same with Nick. Can you imagine if we had more fleshed out relationships with them or more character development and background information? People would be absolutely enamored with them. They have these characters that have SO much potential and to see it thrown aside for more Kenny development or focus on how "dangerous" their situation is gets so frustrating.
If it was season 1 caliber writing with these characters, I may just have enjoyed this season even more than the last (except for Lee, of course. Lee is in a league of his own). As for keeping up hope, well it's hard when we're already more than halfway through the season.
GOUSTTTT is a nice guy, dont hold anything against him. As much as downvotes expresses disagreement it also is an instrument for trolls(you … morewill notice there would be a downvotes on a sentence that is not oppinion). IT really is best to just ignore it all together for one because it could be a troll and for two..Who cares XD.
The Bone license gave Telltale their first popularity boost and, so to speak, their life. Yet Telltale isn't prioritizing Bone, isn't that strange? The Sam & Max license then was indeed what Telltale became famous for among the traditional adventure gamer crowd, and that for four consecutive years and 16 full episodes. Yet there are no Sam & Max games any more, interesting. Another boost was added when Telltale acquired popular licenses such as Monkey Island or Wallace & Gromit, and then in 2011, the first massive popularity increase with Back to the Future and Jurassic Park. Only from that great position of fame were they even able to acquire the Walking Dead license - and the creative freedom only a trusted developer would get from an IP holder. Time for Telltale to say: "Oh wait, now TWD, that is what REALLY REALLY REALLY made us famous, let's stick with that until the end of time"?
From a realist perspective, what's actually true is this: Telltale is always only made more famous by their NEXT license.
When Telltale finds a license that promises better sales, they will abandon The Walking Dead. That might not be happening after Season 2, maybe not even after Season 3, but of course it will happen eventually. And of course then the TWD fanbase will protest and proclaim that "TWD has made Telltale what it is today". Those are the very very same arguments I've heard four years ago when it slowly became clear that Telltale wouldn't use the traditional adventure game mechanics any more: the very same sense of entitlement, the same tone of the demand, the same feeling of being insulted or screwed over. None of which were justified.
Both currently running series deserve to be released according to a 4 to 6 week release schedule.
Both currently running series deserve a good story, lots of hubs, lots of interactivity.
The players of both currently running series deserve to be taken seriously.
None of the currently running series deserves "priority" over the other.
And no series deserves to go on forever. Sure, I know that hurts. :(
The Bone license gave Telltale their first popularity boost and, so to speak, their life. Yet Telltale isn't prioritizing Bone, isn't that s… moretrange? The Sam & Max license then was indeed what Telltale became famous for among the traditional adventure gamer crowd, and that for four consecutive years and 16 full episodes. Yet there are no Sam & Max games any more, interesting. Another boost was added when Telltale acquired popular licenses such as Monkey Island or Wallace & Gromit, and then in 2011, the first massive popularity increase with Back to the Future and Jurassic Park. Only from that great position of fame were they even able to acquire the Walking Dead license - and the creative freedom only a trusted developer would get from an IP holder. Time for Telltale to say: "Oh wait, now TWD, that is what REALLY REALLY REALLY made us famous, let's stick with that until the end of time"?
From a realist perspective, what's actu… [view original content]
Hasn't TWD been a MASSIVE cash cow for Telltale though? It seems more likely they'd set up different teams to work on the game, being able to hire more staff with the extra revenue.The whole "more than 1/2 games" thing only started when TWD S1 was finished which due to its exploding popularity meant they could expand.
Each team works on their own game it seems more likely to me. Heck that's what just about any other game development company do.
I'm NOT saying I don't agree with the OP's points, I just don't think working on multiple games is the reason.
OP very neatly summed up all of my problems with Episode 3. I enjoyed it very much while playing it, but as soon as it ended I felt like something major was missing from the experience. Lack of development for Carver, plot holes regarding the cabin group, wasted characters from 400 days, and a relatively short running time all added up to make a disappointing experience, in retrospect. The things that I loved in previous episodes are still good, though; Clementine is still awesome, Kenny is still awesome, and the gameplay is still fun and exciting. But plotwise, so many things were missing from this episode. And sure, I had some problems with Episode 1, but nothing like this. Episode 1 was still a great reintroduction to the game, despite the gripes I had with it. And Episode 2 was incredible, and built up Episode 3 to be such an epic installment. And while I had fun as I was playing it, as soon as it ended I felt like there were things left out. And OP's post definitely covers what I feel was missing. Here's hoping that Episode 4 somehow makes up for it.
We can not know for certain about this, but it is what it looks like to many.
I can't put the "blame" of what I perceive as lack of quality on their other projects, but it looks like it, at times. Hell, maybe it isn't even the recently announced GoT and TftB, but *Wolf* that's "harmed" TWD (and vice versa). Or maybe it has been the new conscious new development approach, or the change in writers. Who can say for sure?
Whatever it is/was, we just want what's left to be as good as it can be.
We can not know for certain about this, but it is what it looks like to many.
I can't put the "blame" of what I perceive as lack of qua… morelity on their other projects, but it looks like it, at times. Hell, maybe it isn't even the recently announced GoT and TftB, but *Wolf* that's "harmed" TWD (and vice versa). Or maybe it has been the new conscious new development approach, or the change in writers. Who can say for sure?
Whatever it is/was, we just want what's left to be as good as it can be.
Oh my gosh, hubs hubs hubs. What is it about hubs that make them so appealing? It's literally walking around. No meaningful choices, no m… moreeaningful puzzles, no meaningful reason to have them. The last game was by itself linear, and hubs didn't change that linearness. It placed you in an enclosed space and had you walk around till you finally figure out how to get to the next part, if you're done with all the pointless puzzles that make no difference to the story, of course.
I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
400 days I can see, but we shouldn't expect much. I mean, I expect WAY more than a few sentences of dialogue in some sort of easter egg type thing, but not much more. I expect more in episode four from them. I didn't get the DLC, I am waiting for this season to … [view original content]
I like Episode 3, too. It just has a lot of problems that I honestly didn't expect from TWD and TTG. Up until this point, this has been a damn near perfect game, and I really don't want that to change because of poor writing.
I still enjoyed the episode, and TWD is still my favorite game of all time.
Aye, it had, but as I mentioned before, it is still the best frame of reference we all (and that includes TT) have. Comparing one another and pointing out that, in our opinion, S1 is the superior product is not us asking for a clone of S1, or denying it had flaws, but rather to take the best of it to fundamentally improve the new product.
Perhaps we should *also* point out the flaws from last season to make the comparison more complete and neutral, I guess; make clear what we want back and what we don't?
Aye, it had, but as I mentioned before, it is still the best frame of reference we all (and that includes TT) have. Comparing one another an… mored pointing out that, in our opinion, S1 is the superior product is not us asking for a clone of S1, or denying it had flaws, but rather to take the best of it to fundamentally improve the new product.
Perhaps we should *also* point out the flaws from last season to make the comparison more complete and neutral, I guess; make clear what we want back and what we don't?
I don't want it to go on forever, as you say it HAS to end sometime. It does need it. Otherwise the plots start getting repetitive, or the characters are just overused.
I'm not saying that Telltale didn't have previous successful games, and that that's what got him the TWD license. You know way more than I do about that, so discussing it would be pointless. But I do think that TWD is their best shot right now. And by priority I didn't mean working less on the other games. I understand that Telltale is not a big company. But I don't know, perhaps working on just a game at a time? I wouldn't mind waiting one or to years more if that meant a better game. Don't get me wrong, the current season is awesome, but I feel it is a little bit rushed. And so is TWAU (I'm a big fan of fables, so that games is also one of my favorites).
But I guess not everyone can get what they want. I DO realize it wouldn't be practical to release only one game at a time. TWD fans aren't the only ones that should be pleased. But i can't help wanting the best, so let me be naive for a little while and dream, m'kay?
Anyway, I'm just saying this because I love these games, and I just want them to be as good as they can. I'm willing to look up more games from telltale in the future thanks to TWD because I like the style of TTG. So in a way I also don't want them to JUST work on TWD for now.
I guess I commented that in the heat of the moment, but looking back, it does look kind of immature. I was all hyped and just wanted a longer episode.
Whatever, i need some sleep.
The Bone license gave Telltale their first popularity boost and, so to speak, their life. Yet Telltale isn't prioritizing Bone, isn't that s… moretrange? The Sam & Max license then was indeed what Telltale became famous for among the traditional adventure gamer crowd, and that for four consecutive years and 16 full episodes. Yet there are no Sam & Max games any more, interesting. Another boost was added when Telltale acquired popular licenses such as Monkey Island or Wallace & Gromit, and then in 2011, the first massive popularity increase with Back to the Future and Jurassic Park. Only from that great position of fame were they even able to acquire the Walking Dead license - and the creative freedom only a trusted developer would get from an IP holder. Time for Telltale to say: "Oh wait, now TWD, that is what REALLY REALLY REALLY made us famous, let's stick with that until the end of time"?
From a realist perspective, what's actu… [view original content]
It's kind of a let down, I mean I love this game so much, the waiting was killing me. I am not sure if it was over hype on my part, but waiting so long for it then it seemed to be finished in the blink of an eye. I thought the Episode was fine and flowed with the game, but there was so much more they could have done with this Episode.
I couldn't give less of a rat's ass about Borderlands, but Game of Thrones is a perfect fit for Telltale and I can't wait to play it. I just… more wish it was based on the Song of Ice and Fire books and not the TV show.
On the other hand, I'd be much more excited about it if I thought it would resemble the gameplay and length of TWD Season 1 rather than TWD Season 2.
The TV series does the same, pretty much. 'Whatever we don't show you can assume is the same as the books, but whatever we DO show that contradicts the books is canon to the show.'
So the history of Aegon's conquest or the Doom of Valyria or whatever else that's likely to never be seen remain fixed, but in this world Jaime stabbed Aerys through the back rather than opening his throat, Melisandre's shadow baby was sent after Renly and not what's-his-face defending Storm's End, and Robb Stark was married to a Volantene noblewoman named Talisa rather than Jeyne Westerling.
It could be worse, I know. The TV show is quite good for what it can accomplish on a show's budget. It's just in the books GRRM has the time to make the characters and the world much richer than the show ever could.
I'm completely clueless as to what story they could tell, as well. Maybe something taking place during Robert's Rebellion? So much of the feel of the series depends on engaging in machiavellian plotting, and yet most of the big and important machiavellian plots are either known in elaborate detail by now or would spoil the rest of the series.
There is no doubt that losing Sean Vanaman as lead writer had a huge impact on the direction of season two of the walking dead. I've seen a lot of people play down the affect this has had on this season a lot on this forum. Vanaman developed a great story with great themes that were well thought out from start to finish. Season two completely abandons these things and immediately turned off a large portion of season one fans. Having a preteen Clementine interact with adults was as if they were the same age was just embarrassing. It was so weird and it's the reason people started talking about Clem having a romantic relationship with Luke. The way adults talked to her was strange and felt inappropriate because that's not how adults talk to little kids. There is no way Vanaman would have written that kind of shit. Telltale should have done whatever they could to keep Vanaman on for season two and he should have been in the same position he was for season one. He should have been the one to decide whether to continue Clementine's story or not. A lot of fans don't care at all about any of the new characters and Clem and Kenny aren't written any better than they are in season two. They are just more likable because of their character development in season one even though the new writers completely disrespect season one's story by bringing Kenny back. They shouldn't have touched any of the characters from season one without Vanaman.
In episode three of season two they tried to make changes to the story where the adults were nicer to Clementine and treated her more like a kid and were more protective of her and willing to sacrifice for her for that reason. I like that they realized this is what a lot of the fans wanted, but it's written so poorly and the changes in characters come out of nowhere. I liked the episode better than the others solely for that reason even though I really don't like any of season two at all. It's good that they realized some of the things that ruined the game for a lot of fans, but I don't think they will be able to solve all the problems players have been pointing out in the last two episodes of the season. The problem is a lot of the season one fans quit playing season two a long time ago. My brother and nephew were both fans of season one and they quit after the first episode of season two, and the only reason I didn't quit is because I had already bought the season pass. I'm also not sure there will be a season three, but if there is they will have to make some major changes with their development team for me to have any interest in it.
The last episode was amazing, but it felt way too compressed.
Resolving the entire camp and Carver storyarc in a single episode was a bit disappointing.
Working on four games at once will be their downfall. First off, Borderlands WILL fail. What core borderlands fan will play it? Its a comple… moretely different genre and story. Second, they already have trouble releasing 2 series on time. But 4? My god are you joking?
I think that "most rushed episode" more refers to the pacing and duration of the episode, not the amount of time it took to release. This episode only took about an hour and a half to explore everything, and a LOT happened. It felt a bit crowded.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with the majority in this argument for many reasons.
First, "the most rushed episode" actually took almost … moreas long to come out as the previous one, and it's really odd for you to say rushed if you also based your hype on game files and not what actually happened in the game itself. And just because people agree that the episode 'felt super rushed' doesn't mean it was, as I'm sure nobody who agreed works for TTG.
As for Carver, it was assumed he'd be the main villain, but this went against a lot of people's expectations, so I can see why people would complain about that. However, saying no character development makes me wonder if you even listened to his speeches. And to say he really isn't that smart makes me think that he simply didn't demonstrate his intelligence for you with some clever ruse, even though it was clear that his discussions with Clem and Kenny revealed how right and therefore intelligent … [view original content]
Most of what I want to say has already been said. To be clear, I am enjoying this season so far - it's been very entertaining - but I feel like I'm watching a good movie, not playing a great game. I'm on the edge of my seat, I'm wishing that there was more, and I'm enjoying what I'm seeing, but I'm not at all as gripped as I was in s1.
I find the whole 400 Days stuff to be a non-starter. I played that to just tide me over from s1 to s2 - I didn't expect there to be any meaningful impact on the game. Bonnie's story from 400 days was by far the best-written of the group, so I'm glad she has more presence in s2.
The problem for me is the NPCs. The relationships with them aren't at all fleshed out, so these characters just sort of exist in the background. Maybe it's a narrative decision, that Clem is mature and distant, and as a result, she doesn't form any meaningful relationships anymore, and that's fine, but the writers need to understand that just because Clem doesn't want to care about them doesn't mean that the player doesn't want to care about them. How can their deaths have any emotional impact if you don't let us, the player, understand more about them? In my episode 2, Alvin died. I ended up not giving a crap one way or the other. When Carlos died in 3, I found myself thinking "Oh well, whatever." How many conversations did we actually end up having with Carlos anyway? He and Clem had zero relationship whatsoever, so his death had zero emotional impact on me.
We didn't really have any option for having choice-based conversations with people in this episode. The only "hub" section of the game doesn't actually allow you to talk to anyone - nobody wants to talk and you're supposed to just run around looking for things. This is a big problem, because in season 1, character relationships were almost exclusively forged during player-controlled conversations. Lots of development happens in cutscenes, but the interactivity allowed you to forge relationships on your own, and you could stop talking to them whenever you wanted. That agency meant a lot to players, and that agency has been all but stripped away in season 2. Meanwhile, in the conversation with Carver in the office, he's telling me that I'm like him, but the problem is that that isn't how I played either season 1 or season 2 to this point, so it just felt really jarring and inconsistent. It felt like the game was trying to ignore the choices I had made to that point and to shoehorn me in with how they wanted me to play it. Either that, or it was a pointless red herring, but the game spent too much time focusing on that, especially as Kenny was about to beat him to death, that it just didn't make sense to me. I didn't stick around to watch the beating because that isn't how I played the game and if I'm maintaining any control over Clem's personality, I'm not making her that cold.
When everything is fast-paced and tense, nothing is fast-paced and tense. Context and perspective really do matter, and season 1 had it in spades. This season really hasn't given you a chance to catch your breath, and that's not a compliment - it feels like it's rushing you from one tense sequence to the next (lodge meeting excepted). Season 1 had much better pacing and allowed for proper contextualizing of events over each episode.
At the beginning of this episode, I didn't know if I was supposed to trust Luke, Nick, Rebecca and Carlos, but the bigger problem was that I didn't care. Telltale, please give me a reason to care about the NPCs in this game. My entire investment in season 1 was because of the amazing job done on the NPCs, and it's just lacking now. You're not a movie studio, so please don't try to make a movie. Give me some meaningful interactivity with NPCs. That's what I'm asking for, and you haven't given it to me to any meaningful degree this season.
The only ones at blame is us, the TWD community. Let's be honest, there were dozens of threads that all had the same topic: The waits between episodes been too long, Telltale abandoning us, Telltale not caring about the community, etc. And they responded... with episode 3.
There you have it folks, it's our own fault for rushing Telltale.
I think you overestimate by an enormous margin how much Telltale cares about what we say on this forum. You don't think they have all the episodes pretty much planned out? Because they probably do and won't change huge things because we say so.
The only ones at blame is us, the TWD community. Let's be honest, there were dozens of threads that all had the same topic: The waits betwee… moren episodes been too long, Telltale abandoning us, Telltale not caring about the community, etc. And they responded... with episode 3.
There you have it folks, it's our own fault for rushing Telltale.
There have been numerous complaints about season two since the beginning. It didn't just start with episode three, and many of the sudden changes in episode three seem to be the result of telltale trying to fix problems that a lot of players were already having with the game. A lot of those problems have already been talked about here, and it seems that a good portion of players agree that these problems exist and are hurting the game to different extents for different players.
The only ones at blame is us, the TWD community. Let's be honest, there were dozens of threads that all had the same topic: The waits betwee… moren episodes been too long, Telltale abandoning us, Telltale not caring about the community, etc. And they responded... with episode 3.
There you have it folks, it's our own fault for rushing Telltale.
Most of what I want to say has already been said. To be clear, I am enjoying this season so far - it's been very entertaining - but I feel … morelike I'm watching a good movie, not playing a great game. I'm on the edge of my seat, I'm wishing that there was more, and I'm enjoying what I'm seeing, but I'm not at all as gripped as I was in s1.
I find the whole 400 Days stuff to be a non-starter. I played that to just tide me over from s1 to s2 - I didn't expect there to be any meaningful impact on the game. Bonnie's story from 400 days was by far the best-written of the group, so I'm glad she has more presence in s2.
The problem for me is the NPCs. The relationships with them aren't at all fleshed out, so these characters just sort of exist in the background. Maybe it's a narrative decision, that Clem is mature and distant, and as a result, she doesn't form any meaningful relationships anymore, and that's fine, but the writers need … [view original content]
I call bullshit, there's been no real info released about TFTB aside from a few screenshots, and the fact that the release window for it is fall 2014 >.>
Comments
I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
400 days I can see, but we shouldn't expect much. I mean, I expect WAY more than a few sentences of dialogue in some sort of easter egg type thing, but not much more. I expect more in episode four from them. I didn't get the DLC, I am waiting for this season to be complete to see if it is worth it, and so far, I'm not going to pay 4 bucks for a few determent sentences of dialogue. I mean, come on, they made entire backstories with these characters, and they are just going to say one line of dialogue? No. We need more from Telltale.
I thought some of those things were explained. The people at the lake were shot up by Carver in search for the Cabin Group. I want to know more about George. Rebecca changed to make amends to Clem, remember? She thought Clem was with Carver, and we saw how much she feared him.
Anyway: the season is good, but there is so much missing potential that can be put in. If more unnf was put into this game, it would be polished and perfect. However, their schedule is pretty big. I give them the benefit of the doubt a lot, but that was because I thought they would add a bit more story branching with characters. Even if this season doesn't end up the way I think it will, I wont regret spending that twenty bucks to enjoy it. For what it is, it's good; for what it could be, it falls a bit short.
They are biting off a bit more than they can chew. Hopefully, they can swallow and start eating in smaller bites.
Isn't that what already seems to be happening now?
I most respectfully, but oh so strongly disagree. As always, on this.
@drewtheman68 wrote:
"People associate the hubs with getting to know other characters, the knowledge from these encounters then influenced a player's choice over who to save, who they liked, who they formed bonds with. "
Also what I wrote one page back:
"The point that I am trying to make here is: That small measure of interactivity was in itself a choice that was presented to you, and that in some cases served to change your perspective on some characters or simply made you appreciate them more as characters. None of those conversations were forced upon you (save for *A New Day*), you had the freedom to choose who to talk to and your playthrough was almost always richer for it."
It was not necessarily the puzzles that make me look back so fondly on those areas, although some people liked even those; they make some more traditional players feel more involved in what is going on, what they are trying to achieve. I can do without puzzles, but not to what they were attached to. I stand by what I and others say; they are helpful tools in the telling of the story because that exposition and hearing what our cast had to say about their situation and about *you*, the protagonist, made them feel more human.
> I agree that Carver should have lasted one more episode, made him more menacing the fourth one and killed him off in the fourth one. It still doesn't mean they can't take this to a good direction.
Menacing and nuanced, methinks. I do think that his death will play an important part in Clementine's development as survivor and character, depending on what you chose and what she saw the man do, in the name of survival of the fittest.
> I mean, come on, they made entire backstories with these characters, and they are just going to say one line of dialogue? No. We need more from Telltale.
It is all the more disappointing when you see what an interesting concept 400 days was. The backstories are done well enough, and to see those characters "wasted" in a sense is... frustrating. It probably is too much work to put all those variables into the story, but still.
> I give them the benefit of the doubt a lot, but that was because I thought they would add a bit more story branching with characters.
It would certainly make replays and it overall feel more fresh, but story branching should be accompanied with "social branching", too. Not just have a death or determinant moment affect the plot, but the perception of the cast towards you, their situation, etc. Going back to hubs, these segments could vary from playthrough to playthrough, depending on what you did. The ideas are not that incompatible, to me.
> For what it is, it's good; for what it could be, it falls a bit short.
Bottom line for most of us.
EDIT: Sorry for the long ass post, but if you read it, I love you. :D If not, I don't blame you.
You know what makes the whole thing worse? The basic characters they have started are already SO COMPELLING on their own that with just a bit more fleshing out, I could easily be as attached to them as season 1 characters. I mean, Luke has already amassed a fanbase for a reason and same with Nick. Can you imagine if we had more fleshed out relationships with them or more character development and background information? People would be absolutely enamored with them. They have these characters that have SO much potential and to see it thrown aside for more Kenny development or focus on how "dangerous" their situation is gets so frustrating.
If it was season 1 caliber writing with these characters, I may just have enjoyed this season even more than the last (except for Lee, of course. Lee is in a league of his own). As for keeping up hope, well it's hard when we're already more than halfway through the season.
Actually, having Clem as such a young girl opens up a lot of doors as to how characters will talk to her. Feasibly, they might open up to her more easily than they would open up to Lee. They could have done so much with this, had her remind characters of younger sisters or nieces. Have them relieved to see another child still alive in this brutal new world and have protective feelings develop beyond the bit we have with Luke. Having the protagonist be so young could have been such a boon to character interactions but they've wasted that potential by never having those hub moments and having all the adults treat Clementine purely like an adult even when it's a bit unbelievable.
From a realist perspective, what's actually true is this: Telltale is always only made more famous by their NEXT license.
When Telltale finds a license that promises better sales, they will abandon The Walking Dead. That might not be happening after Season 2, maybe not even after Season 3, but of course it will happen eventually. And of course then the TWD fanbase will protest and proclaim that "TWD has made Telltale what it is today". Those are the very very same arguments I've heard four years ago when it slowly became clear that Telltale wouldn't use the traditional adventure game mechanics any more: the very same sense of entitlement, the same tone of the demand, the same feeling of being insulted or screwed over. None of which were justified.
Both currently running series deserve to be released according to a 4 to 6 week release schedule.
Both currently running series deserve a good story, lots of hubs, lots of interactivity.
The players of both currently running series deserve to be taken seriously.
None of the currently running series deserves "priority" over the other.
And no series deserves to go on forever. Sure, I know that hurts. :(
Each team works on their own game it seems more likely to me. Heck that's what just about any other game development company do.
I'm NOT saying I don't agree with the OP's points, I just don't think working on multiple games is the reason.
I can't put the "blame" of what I perceive as lack of quality on their other projects, but it looks like it, at times. Hell, maybe it isn't even the recently announced GoT and TftB, but *Wolf* that's "harmed" TWD (and vice versa). Or maybe it has been the new conscious new development approach, or the change in writers. Who can say for sure?
Whatever it is/was, we just want what's left to be as good as it can be.
I still enjoyed the episode, and TWD is still my favorite game of all time.
Perhaps we should *also* point out the flaws from last season to make the comparison more complete and neutral, I guess; make clear what we want back and what we don't?
I'm not saying that Telltale didn't have previous successful games, and that that's what got him the TWD license. You know way more than I do about that, so discussing it would be pointless. But I do think that TWD is their best shot right now. And by priority I didn't mean working less on the other games. I understand that Telltale is not a big company. But I don't know, perhaps working on just a game at a time? I wouldn't mind waiting one or to years more if that meant a better game. Don't get me wrong, the current season is awesome, but I feel it is a little bit rushed. And so is TWAU (I'm a big fan of fables, so that games is also one of my favorites).
But I guess not everyone can get what they want. I DO realize it wouldn't be practical to release only one game at a time. TWD fans aren't the only ones that should be pleased. But i can't help wanting the best, so let me be naive for a little while and dream, m'kay?
Anyway, I'm just saying this because I love these games, and I just want them to be as good as they can. I'm willing to look up more games from telltale in the future thanks to TWD because I like the style of TTG. So in a way I also don't want them to JUST work on TWD for now.
I guess I commented that in the heat of the moment, but looking back, it does look kind of immature. I was all hyped and just wanted a longer episode.
Whatever, i need some sleep.
See 'ya all
So the history of Aegon's conquest or the Doom of Valyria or whatever else that's likely to never be seen remain fixed, but in this world Jaime stabbed Aerys through the back rather than opening his throat, Melisandre's shadow baby was sent after Renly and not what's-his-face defending Storm's End, and Robb Stark was married to a Volantene noblewoman named Talisa rather than Jeyne Westerling.
It could be worse, I know. The TV show is quite good for what it can accomplish on a show's budget. It's just in the books GRRM has the time to make the characters and the world much richer than the show ever could.
I'm completely clueless as to what story they could tell, as well. Maybe something taking place during Robert's Rebellion? So much of the feel of the series depends on engaging in machiavellian plotting, and yet most of the big and important machiavellian plots are either known in elaborate detail by now or would spoil the rest of the series.
In episode three of season two they tried to make changes to the story where the adults were nicer to Clementine and treated her more like a kid and were more protective of her and willing to sacrifice for her for that reason. I like that they realized this is what a lot of the fans wanted, but it's written so poorly and the changes in characters come out of nowhere. I liked the episode better than the others solely for that reason even though I really don't like any of season two at all. It's good that they realized some of the things that ruined the game for a lot of fans, but I don't think they will be able to solve all the problems players have been pointing out in the last two episodes of the season. The problem is a lot of the season one fans quit playing season two a long time ago. My brother and nephew were both fans of season one and they quit after the first episode of season two, and the only reason I didn't quit is because I had already bought the season pass. I'm also not sure there will be a season three, but if there is they will have to make some major changes with their development team for me to have any interest in it.
The last episode was amazing, but it felt way too compressed.
Resolving the entire camp and Carver storyarc in a single episode was a bit disappointing.
But creating a fresh, new IP set in a wasteland would have been more clever.
I find the whole 400 Days stuff to be a non-starter. I played that to just tide me over from s1 to s2 - I didn't expect there to be any meaningful impact on the game. Bonnie's story from 400 days was by far the best-written of the group, so I'm glad she has more presence in s2.
The problem for me is the NPCs. The relationships with them aren't at all fleshed out, so these characters just sort of exist in the background. Maybe it's a narrative decision, that Clem is mature and distant, and as a result, she doesn't form any meaningful relationships anymore, and that's fine, but the writers need to understand that just because Clem doesn't want to care about them doesn't mean that the player doesn't want to care about them. How can their deaths have any emotional impact if you don't let us, the player, understand more about them? In my episode 2, Alvin died. I ended up not giving a crap one way or the other. When Carlos died in 3, I found myself thinking "Oh well, whatever." How many conversations did we actually end up having with Carlos anyway? He and Clem had zero relationship whatsoever, so his death had zero emotional impact on me.
We didn't really have any option for having choice-based conversations with people in this episode. The only "hub" section of the game doesn't actually allow you to talk to anyone - nobody wants to talk and you're supposed to just run around looking for things. This is a big problem, because in season 1, character relationships were almost exclusively forged during player-controlled conversations. Lots of development happens in cutscenes, but the interactivity allowed you to forge relationships on your own, and you could stop talking to them whenever you wanted. That agency meant a lot to players, and that agency has been all but stripped away in season 2. Meanwhile, in the conversation with Carver in the office, he's telling me that I'm like him, but the problem is that that isn't how I played either season 1 or season 2 to this point, so it just felt really jarring and inconsistent. It felt like the game was trying to ignore the choices I had made to that point and to shoehorn me in with how they wanted me to play it. Either that, or it was a pointless red herring, but the game spent too much time focusing on that, especially as Kenny was about to beat him to death, that it just didn't make sense to me. I didn't stick around to watch the beating because that isn't how I played the game and if I'm maintaining any control over Clem's personality, I'm not making her that cold.
When everything is fast-paced and tense, nothing is fast-paced and tense. Context and perspective really do matter, and season 1 had it in spades. This season really hasn't given you a chance to catch your breath, and that's not a compliment - it feels like it's rushing you from one tense sequence to the next (lodge meeting excepted). Season 1 had much better pacing and allowed for proper contextualizing of events over each episode.
At the beginning of this episode, I didn't know if I was supposed to trust Luke, Nick, Rebecca and Carlos, but the bigger problem was that I didn't care. Telltale, please give me a reason to care about the NPCs in this game. My entire investment in season 1 was because of the amazing job done on the NPCs, and it's just lacking now. You're not a movie studio, so please don't try to make a movie. Give me some meaningful interactivity with NPCs. That's what I'm asking for, and you haven't given it to me to any meaningful degree this season.
There you have it folks, it's our own fault for rushing Telltale.