A Solution to Telltale's Problem
It seems like Telltale are having problems this season that's really affecting our experience in a negative way. Three of them to be precise.
1. Shorter episodes
I think we can all agree that shorter episodes is one of the main issues of this season since Season 1 totaled between two to two and a half hours an episode while the episodes of Season 2 have been an hour and a half even. It upsets players knowing that the episodes are shorter, but the wait is longer compared to Season 1.
2. Lack of hubs
The reason Telltale thought removing hubs was a good idea, I may never know, but I do know this... cutting out hubs has seriously hurt our experience with Season 2. This supposed to be a point and click game, not a movie. Make it feel like one Telltale.
3. Lack of character development
What made Season 1 so emotional was more of the characters than the story. Imagine Season 1 with characters that you didn't care about? The ending wouldn't have been as emotional and we wouldn't be as invested to Season 2 because of Clementine. Telltale have been dropping the ball on character development lately and now with only two episodes left, you have to think how is Telltale going to solve this problem?
Solution
It's actually not a complicated as you may think. Now imagine a normal episode in Season 2 is about an hour and a half. Now what if Telltale adds optional hubs throughout the episode that doesn't necessarily have to correlate with the story, but to make us more attached with the characters that we're not only conversing, but who we're sharing this journey with. By doing this, you're starting an attachment between the player and the character which means if you plan to kill them off later on, it will have more of an emotional impact.
I digress, you just solved the problem right there. Adding optional hubs between episodes that don't affect the story, but affect your connection with the characters. It's also both increasing the episodes length and adding decent character development. Problem solved.
**TL;DR ** Optional hubs will solve the problem.
Comments
i'm pretty sure they removed them for the reason they are working on too many games, not because some people liked them. if they had the time they would make hubs
I think they have different teams to work in the games.
If they spread too far the ice under their feet would thin out so much that it would no longer hold their weight, which would then collapse. Just a little philosophy...
I read somewhere that Telltale removed hubs because it played no part in the story. Haven't you noticed that Telltale have been pushing the story in Season 2 to the point where we can't even appreciate the characters or environments? I love Telltale's stories, but I also love their characters too. Telltale needs to find a balance between story and characters.
Hubs and/or interactive elements don't take Telltale much time.
Back when Telltale focused on puzzle-oriented titles, they were able to get 3-5 hour long episodes (with much more gameplay) out at a tight monthly schedule.
I imagine the major hold-up is due to the complexity of the choice system and accounting for how previous choices affect episodes - even the more subtle ones that most people miss. I think that Telltale removed hubs to deliberately streamline their episodes to give them a more cinematic feel - not because they take much time to add. If anything, I would think that choreographing cinematic cutscenes would take more time than creating an environment where your player can walk around and interact with various characters or objects.
Thanks for the info Blind!
"Every day's a school day"
Hmm interesting.
Well, thanks, but just to clarify - I'm only a volunteer moderator using my backhand knowledge and intuition of how Telltale works. Mods aren't official Telltale staff, etc, etc.
If an actual Telltale staff member wants to comment on this and add/correct anything, they are more than welcome to.
I was just replaying Season 1 and I find it way more cinematic than Season 2. Especially if I choose a minimal interface and remove subtitles. The cinematography seems more varied/interesting also.
I imagine the removal of the "minimalist interface" is in part from Telltale trying to establish their own brand identity with the "X will remember this" notifications.
As for the cinematography being more varied in Season 1, I imagine this is due in part to Season 1 having more varied environments and groups each episode. With Season 2, you are with one major group in one major environment for each episode, with a few new people joining the group or dying. In my opinion, Season 1 was better at getting a multitude of different environments each episode - which I imagine let them try different cinematic techniques for each new environment.
Very true. It just felt like an eye opening experience to me playing Season 1 that way. Not that i'm saying Season 2 isn't good, because I am really enjoying it, but the drop in quality is slightly present.
Omg yes! Telltale need to see this!
Maybe they could think about it if they do a season 3. I wouldn't mind a few more hubs like S2 Episode 1 had for this season though. like a search around 'go find Kenny an eyepatch" thing maybe?
Find a rubber ducky instead.
Make Kenny depressed...
Go buy a Kenny some ice cream.
Find food for the tired puppy.
Challenge the tired puppy to poker.
Laugh as the tired puppy loses at poker.
Take all the tired puppy's food back.
Aye, me love me some hubs
I agree. I want to play poker with Luke while playing pirate with Kenny. :P
Get him a boat too. Have a hub on a pirate ship, Luke be walking the plank XD
The ultimate solution to all of this year's problem is working on 1 game at a time. Not 2
In IHW there was a mini hub, but I didn't notice it lol.
Actually I think it's 5. They're are also working TFTB as you can see some screenshots already, most likely GOT is still being written, and they recently confirmed in making another game they're working on as well but they never said what it was. I don't remember where I learned about, but that's what I heard.
Still working on so many is a problem.
Aw! Luke then gives you the puppy eyes before Kenny kicks him off the ship and into the water/bath. Luke is going to be one mad wet puppy.
No excuses now. Make it happen Telltale
It was a shitty hub where you couldnt even talk to most of the characters(mike, jane,sarita,reggie) and it punishes you by moving the story forward when clicking things too much or in the wrong order. Basically telltale has no idea wtf they're doing this time.
Are all your gravatar's of Clementine wearing sunglasses? xD
There's a FIFTH game!?
I made about 3 XD
Apparently, yes.
Interesting points! I think #2 and #3 are especially important. If TTG includes more of #2, the episode would naturally become longer and if TTG include more of #3, the episodes would be much more worth it, even if they are short. Clementine's character development, in my opinion is especially lacking but is in fact the most crucial. She's the main character that we all care about. Yet, Clem has not really changed at all throughout the season so far, despite many good opportunities to do so (such as her interactions with Kenny or Carver). Understandably, it is more difficult because we, the players, control Clementine, but there are many others on this forum who would also agree with me that TTG really needs to develop Clem more in episodes 4 and 5. Otherwise, as you said, S2 would end quite flat and not as enriching as S1.
That too but the biggest culprit is the constant switching of team members between TWAU and TWD
All hub sequences are optional. That's pretty much the point. You give the player the option to go around talking to people before performing the next task that progresses the game. The trick is inserting hub sequences in a way that feels natural and unobtrusive so that players feel comfortable going around and talking to people instead of immediately progressing.
There wasn't really a good opportunity for a hub sequence in Episode 1, but Episode 2 had Matthew's house and the ski lodge, and Episode 3 had the various times in between phases of the escape plan. It's too bad that Telltale missed out on the opportunity to capitalize on these moments to get to know their characters better and start to care about them more. Maybe they'll learn their lesson with Episode 4. God knows we've been complaining about this long enough. As a company that prides itself on a business model specifically designed to allow for fan feedback to matter, it's about time we see that pan out.
I find it ironic that we wait between episodes because they take our feedback yet when we complain about hubs, episode length, etc. They explain to us that it's intentional and dismiss our desires for the game.
I can agree, the flow can become disturbed as it's not the same ones who did the previous. Plus I feel as the length of each episode in TWAU was inconsistent, like wasn't the first one the longest or something while the next two were 90 minutes and latest being the shortest?
Your thread is spot in. The problem is that all of these take more developers and more investment from TTG in manpower to TWD game.
It's clear to see that TTG has thinned out its game development to spread manpower thin so it can start working on its new games.
i hope the one that hasent been announced is a breaking bad game
I'd argue that the cabin the morning after was a good space for one, before heading out to the fish traps.
A glaring issue for me is that the characters don't adapt to the choices Clementine makes, or the attitude she can choose to adopt with them. "X will remember that" ... well, actually, no, they don't.
I don't know about that. The cabin group were still very much distrusting of Clem then. Carlos would keep his distance from you and make sure that you don't go near Sarah. Rebecca would keep away from you and pressure Alvin to do the same. So the only people you'd get the chance to talk to would be Luke, Nick, and Pete. You already had a bit of a chat with Luke. More character exposition with Nick and Pete would take place as they headed to the fish traps and in the next episode after the walker attack. So if there were a hub then, it seems to me like it would serve very limited purposes.
Matt's house was a better place to start getting acquainted with the other, less characterized members of the cabin group. Rebecca had warmed up to you by that point and was sitting with Alvin, giving you an opportunity to get to know them both. Carlos was distracted and talking to Luke, giving you an opportunity to talk to Sarah alone. And something pretty dramatic just happened. One of their own just shot and killed an innocent person. I wanted to get Sarah and Rebecca's perspectives on that.
Poor Clementine being used as a money grab so they can finance all their other crappy games that won't sell near as much as TWD.'
-Summer 2015
"shit, borderlands sold less than Bigby and nobody bothered 'buying' GoT, how the hell am i going to afford that $19,900 green interior for my maybach?. BRECKON!, go to the whiteboard and start TWD's Season 3, we need a quick buck right now if we want to finish Breaking Bad, James Bond and Jurassic Park's Season 2. Make sure the episodes are 60-75 minutes long, i remember back in the day people ATE that with In Sheep's Clothing and Cry Wolf."
R.I.P Vanaman's legacy
Not arguing that haha.
This is so true that it hurts.
Now I want to cry. ;_;
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