400 Days Cameos - Out of character?
I think the reason for me why the cameos were so disappointing was how completely out-of-character they were. I'd grown so attached to some of these people, and it just felt like they turned into strangers. And, fair enough, from Clementine's eyes they were, but...
Well, look at Vince, threatening to tattle on Tavia for smoking. Where the hell did that come from? What happened to "Fuck Wall Street"? What happened to the anti-authoritarian murderer we broke out of a bus? Since when the hell would he even care, let alone run to Carver like some kind of pathetic, childish lapdog?
And Russell? Working as a guard for the kind of person we knew from 400 Days that he HATED the most? His entire narrative was the desire to get away from fucked up people like Nate and Steve, who turn themselves into self-proclaimed leaders and hurt people. That's what Carver is! That's what Carver is times ten! How was it that Russell, of all people, bought into Carver's bullshit and was trusted enough to become a guard for the community when he'd been the one who was most suspicious of Tavia in the first place?
My disappointment in the cameos wasn't how short they were. I wouldn't have minded short. My problem was that it felt like they erased the character development these great characters had been given. It's like the writers for episode 3 didn't even PLAY 400 Days. Or that they just didn't care.
That's what disappointed me.
Comments
I feel similarly but I'm gonna wait for the season to be complete before I get up in arms about it, but it has been disappointing so far
Tavia also turned into a huge bitch as well from the nice woman we saw in 400 days.
How long were they at that camp? Anyway, remember that Bonnie didn't know that Carver was a complete psychopath until the incident, so I doubt any of the others knew he was insane either.
Yeah, I think Wyatt's quote seemed off. How the fuck does he even know Clem was going to him? And calling Clem "dude"?
This. All of them (except Shel) bothered me, but Tavia's portrayal was the one that stood out to me as most dissonant.
Dude, it will be far too late by then.
I agree, it was pretty disappointing. To be fair though, it's been a while since we've seen them so I guess they just adjusted to the way things were. Russell's character makes no sense though, totally agree with that.
Well, he's a stoner so, wouldn't he say dude?
Not much weed in the apocalypse. And it seemed weird. It should of been "Kid, you better see, Bill. He doesn't like to wait." And that's it.
Cheesy and clique as f**k like they were just trying to tick a box by putting them in they lacked depth or emotion within the episode with short screen time for them and also showed no connection to the established characters personality's only the exact same model. In fact they probably used them to save money by using their models instead of making new characters then pass them off as easter eggs or something.
Shel's character was spot on.
Russell striked me as the kind of person who would've left Carvers camp with Luke, Nick and Pete's group.
Russell's was way out of character.
I have to agree. I don't think anyone besides Bonnie will be seen again. Not with the way they were introduced.
She seemed so kind and open and charismatic in 400 Days, and then Episode 3 she was this gruff, ineffectual grunt.
I'm just gonna throw this out there just because they seem nice doesn't mean they we nice (St. John's anybody) 400 days people I somewhat understand but tavia we barely knew where she was from all we knew was she was trying to gather people for the community (even then we didn't know what type of community it was)
Russell´s personality kinda makes sense if you think about it:
He slipped away from Steve´s group because he was a bad guy and Russell couldn´t bear his violent methods used for survival, then he met Nate and dealt with the exact same thing. Nate even quote Steve´s phrase to disturb Russell( Nate´s most asshole move in my opinion, joking about the kid´s trauma like that ). When he met Tavia, you already could see his personality change, he was much more aggressive and distrustful compared to the innocent sensitive kid he was when met Nate. Then he become part of Carver´s community and deal with the exact same thing AGAIN. At this point i would be tired of running, resigned that this is the world i live now and i need to get used to it.
you are missing a point here, in 400 days you controlled these characters and decided their course of action. You actually never get to judge their character from 3rd party view, yea my russell decided to stay with nate and kill the folks, does that make up for that now? my vince was humble and not some 'fuck wallstreet' guy, just saying dont go hard on me.
I didn't mind Russell's that much because he at least didn't seem content in the camp or just going through the motions like Wyatt and Vince did. I could believe he's pretty frustrated with all that's going on, but not being able to do much about it since, at this point, he can't just walk out and be on his way, especially with a herd coming towards them. Wyatt's weird comment was more of an eyebrow raiser for me, and Vince being a tattle-teller. Shel and Becca were pretty much themselves; the lack of a miraculously still-living Stephanie was my only problem there. :P
What I was most annoyed by was that Bonnie didn't seem to care all that much about her old friends whom she'd apparently spent a good amount of time with. Obviously, I get that the determinant nature of the other characters makes it impossible for them to play any kind of major role, but it just disappointed me that, character-wise, Bonnie was prepared to leave the camp and leave them all behind.
Does Russell ever choose to actually kill the folks, though? If I recall correctly, he just goes "uh..." and then is shocked by Nate's actions. He also calls Nate crazy during the Tavia segment as well. Much like Lee, you can choose for him to do something, but inklings of his true character still emerge. Regardless of that last choice, Russell's characterization is pretty definitively that of someone who wouldn't follow a person like Nate or Carver.
Vince had less of a defined character, in my opinion, but in general, he's a take charge kind of guy when he has to be, from killing the people messing with his brother, to having the guts to turn the gun on Danny and Justin and to make the kind of decision he did. Basically, the kind of guy you really don't expect to be a tattle-teller about someone smoking because somebody might get in trouble. If nothing else, it was a disappointing cameo for him.
Wait, where the hell is Chuck?
Wait...do you mean my avatar?
I made sure no-one went with Tavia (except Bonnie of course) wonder if they will show up differently or later?
I don't really see what the whole point of having 400 days was because it has had hardly anything to do with season 2, I know most of the main characters are determinant but I just don't see 400 days having any relevance at all with the storyline.
It has sort of messed it up in a way because we were all expecting 400 days to have an important connection or affect on the story and TT even strongly recommended people to play it before S2E2 came out, but so far there has been nothing to really connect to it, Bonnie has been in it yes but there has been nothing that brings back her connection to 400 days. She might as well of been a completely new character for S2 and not been in 400 days, as for the cameo appearances I think it would of been better if Clem could of at least been able to say something to them, I know they're determinants but it was just so disappointing, so again what was the point of creating these characters when they were hardly going to be used?
I suppose the only people we're yet to find out about are Eddie and Nate who weren't determinants, so hopefully they will return and have a larger role and not just be a dead body or something you know like what Roman was. However after what I've seen so far regarding 400 days I shouldn't expect it.
Either that or he's quoting Christa. Or both.
Vince's attitude makes sense if you keep in mind that in order to get him to come along with Tavia, you had to make him side with and eventually get ditched by Justin. As a result, he became more self-serving and every-man-for-himself. I did think the whole tattling thing was kind of a weak and childish way of showing off his character though.
Now, Wyatt's cameo. That I thought was out of character. Specifically, the way he said "He doesn't like to wait." I never thought that he would be the type of guy to talk to a little girl with a threatening tone for no reason.
Shel and Becca were in character in terms of how they interacted, but I have the same problem with their appearance as you had with Russell's. The easiest way to get Shel and Becca to come along with you is by having them run away from Roman when he wanted you to kill Shel. But then that means that Shel escaped one ruthless leader just to follow an even worse one. It doesn't make sense.
Ah I firmly believe Tavia was always a huge bitch, but smiles draw in an unsuspecting workforce alot quicker than a pissed off psycho.
The more you start paying attention the more you realize the writing was a disaster. Stuff like Reggie saying "Okay, that's Mike. He's kind of a dick when he's tired but like I said, he saved my life."
"but like i said, he saved my life"
ehhhh he never mentioned anything about Mike saving his life prior to that dialogue
Haha, that's such a load of bull. I can't believe I always think whatever he says is true.
It's odd to see you think that the passing of 16 months or so (depending on when Shel and her group, or Nate and Russel visited the same gas station Omid died in, and when Tavia collected the 6) wouldn't change people, especially when you also don't know how long these people were living with Carver. As Bonnie mentions, she had her version of him until she saw what he was really capable of, so it's entirely possible that Carver only revealed his aggression after Clem showed up and skillfully manipulated people without threats or violence beforehand.
Basically, I think "out of character" is a very hasty conclusion given the amount we don't know concerning the 400 Days survivors, so there's no need to be disappointed out of empty assumptions. We have two more episodes to go, and many more deaths to preside over.
I know, but he is right though by only saying QUITE present because that's all it was! XD
In Vince's defence his character would have fitted, if the player chose to go with Justin, because then when Tavia appeared at their camp in 400 days he said something like "hell she looks clean and well fed let's go" so later in e3 when he appears wanting to tattle on Tavia for smoking it felt slightly more believable.
Shel, Becca and Bonnie were the only ones spot on imo.
Wyatt and Russell acted like they were under some sort of spell. Wyatt's dialogue was very awkward and Russell was completely out of character all this time running away from Steve or Nate saying he hated that shit but still ends up being a dick again, no sense.
Finally considering that they would've been at Carver's camp for nearly a year obviously changed them, but this drastically? I doubt it.
I still believe that we will see them at some point, I mean we have to, otherwise those characters are just waste of development.
Yes. I was just asking what happened our old man. But I guess I quoted Christa too.:D
Oh, well I changed it a few weeks ago.
Yes, that would make sence, that she was trying to get us into the community, so she played being nice - but, still, I agree with skoothz, as even her way of speech and choice of words changed in S2 - she really looks like dumb Carver's grunt.
But isn't that exactly what happens when people become part of a dictatorship? It brings out different sides in people's characters. Tattling to get brownie points and draw attention away from your own bad behaviours (Vince), on-edge from the vague but constant threat of violence (Wyatt), or even resigned submission (Russell). Finally, there's denial. Bonnie knew what Carver was like, she was just in serious denial about it. It was easier to stay with the group than to try it alone in the outside world, so I assume she swallowed her misgivings and took her chances with Carver by justifying his actions to herself. Luke and the others ran away, after all, and she must have known the reason why. Overall, I felt that their behaviour made sense considering the atmosphere they had been living in for over a year.
I dont necessarily think those examples you mentioned were out of character for the simple fact that we didnt get a lot of time with them and a lot of time has gone by since. People change given their circumstances. I do agree that if this is the last we see of them, except for Bonnie, it is very disappointing. I was hoping for a lot more from those characters.
Don't really understand how that's relevant. I'm talking about their portrayal, not the fact they were there.
While I do agree that I was disappointed with their cameos, you have know something, Carver changed people, whether they wanted it or not, once you're in that group, you think he's gonna let you get away from his grasp? Look at what he did to Luke's group. Russell may have been trying to get away from people like him but even he knows when he's fucked and there's nowhere else to go. He has to deal with it. Same for Vince, he may have been punished severely for his actions with Carver and is extremely intimidated by him. All in all, people change people.