I don't know about you, but I figured Lee was only 'hashing' in order to stall them. Making a deal with them like the St. Johns would only prolong the danger that Ben had put them in.
What do you mean she saved them from bandits? I was trying to hash out some terms with them when she randomly decided to shoot one of them i… moren the head and start a shootout <_<
I don't think the idea to abandon Lilly really compares because the situations were very different. It was more of a heat of the moment kind of thing with Kenny. His wife and child just got tackled by a walker and the place was getting swarmed.
I still love Luke a lot. Not as much as I did before episode four, perhaps, but he's still a good guy and the character I see my Clementine having a future with. It's a little tiring reading so much Kenny praise and Luke bashing all the time though, so I mostly just lurk and don't really speak up about it anymore, but I'm sure there are a lot more Luke fans than it would seem.
My fingers are crossed for some strong material for him in the finale.
I'm still cool with Luke, since I can't decide if his lame reaction to Nick's death was just bad writing. I appreciate that he actually apologized for screwing up and seemed to be genuinely remorseful, which is more than I can say for some characters.
"Fuck...fuck..." is a valid reaction for someone who's surrounded by zombies and is aware that his other friends need his immediate help. Remember that, unlike Kenny or Sarah, he didn't personally see Nick die.
I'm still cool with Luke, since I can't decide if his lame reaction to Nick's death was just bad writing. I appreciate that he actually apol… moreogized for screwing up and seemed to be genuinely remorseful, which is more than I can say for some characters.
I've read people's attempts to justify Luke's underwhelming reaction to Nick's death, that he's always been portrayed as someone who tries to keep his emotions in check for the sake of others, that he slept with Jane as a way to cope, etc, and I actually agree with them. My problem with the writing is that it's unclear whether those justifications are fanon or canon. Hopefully, Episode 5 makes it clearer.
In other words, I can't decide if the writer's made Luke react that way on purpose, or just gave him that one variable line if Nick was saved because they were lazy.
"Fuck...fuck..." is a valid reaction for someone who's surrounded by zombies and is aware that his other friends need his immediate help. Remember that, unlike Kenny or Sarah, he didn't personally see Nick die.
I'd say it's lazy writing. Fans have been bending over backwards to try to make the writers' gaps more understandable - see Clementine's amnesia regarding Christa's pregnancy in Episode 4 - but I fear that Telltale may actually take advantage of this tendency in order to be even more lax with writing for future episodes.
I've read people's attempts to justify Luke's underwhelming reaction to Nick's death, that he's always been portrayed as someone who tries … moreto keep his emotions in check for the sake of others, that he slept with Jane as a way to cope, etc, and I actually agree with them. My problem with the writing is that it's unclear whether those justifications are fanon or canon. Hopefully, Episode 5 makes it clearer.
In other words, I can't decide if the writer's made Luke react that way on purpose, or just gave him that one variable line if Nick was saved because they were lazy.
I'd say it's lazy writing. Fans have been bending over backwards to try to make the writers' gaps more understandable - see Clementine's am… morenesia regarding Christa's pregnancy in Episode 4 - but I fear that Telltale may actually take advantage of this tendency in order to be even more lax with writing for future episodes.
Kenny does step up when he's needed. He makes the tough choices. Yes, he gets tunnel vision about what needs to get done, but I'd rather have someone focused than someone who messes up EVERY TIME HE'S NEEDED.
Getting caught when he just needed to wait for Clem to give him the walkie talkie (seriously, you're going looking for food NOW?)
Getting his rocks off when he needed to keep a watch out for walkers, given the fact that there was a woman going INTO LABOR at the same time, and he knew there was a herd nearby (since they had JUST ESCAPED IT)
Running off when Carver attacked (maybe if they had multiple people with guns - they could have taken out Carver from multiple angles when Kenny was outside and shot one of Carver's men)
Luke chokes when he's needed. Kenny doesn't choke - he just gets focused on ONE way of doing things. And lets be honest, finding a boat was NOT a bad idea. Leaving the motel when they were STARVING, in a mobile RV, was NOT a bad idea. Trying to shoot Carver was NOT a bad idea. Trying to escape the truck before they got to the compound was NOT a bad idea. Kenny is bullheaded, but at least usually has ideas that make sense. Luke has been getting steadily dumber and he's beginning to reach into Ben territories. Killing Larry - hate to say this but it was NOT a bad idea - he was having a heart attack and dying, and they were locked in a meat locker, and Larry would be TOUGH without needing to worry about his heart (ie, as a zombie).
Honestly the entire group from the cabin were hopelessly stupid, except for Pete. And unfortunately he got bit. Sarah was an autistic who couldnt cope and froze up. Nick (much as Iiked him and thought he had potential) messed up multiple times, killing Matthew, not being able to help Pete, getting drunk when he and Clem are holed up, deciding to run for help THROUGH A PACK OF WALKERS APPARENTLY... when all they needed to do was go through the skylight and jump over the side of the fence. Carlos was an idiot who couldnt tell the difference between a walker bite and a dog bite, yet is a doctor (apparently the dumbest doctor on the planet) and continually said how he did not trust Clem because she took fishing wire, a needle, and peroxide to STITCH HER OWN ARM when he wouldnt (because his brilliant idea was to keep her locked in a shed, where the infection would have killed her whether it was a dog bite or not), Rebecca was a jerk (and frankly running away from a secure compound when you're pregnant, even if it's run by someone like Carver, was DUMB), Alvin was a pushover who didnt speak up to do the right thing when Clem needed him. They're now all dead, except for Luke.
Fortunately, the new group 2.0 is slightly better. Kenny is a good survivor, even though he's bullheaded and gets pissy if you don't do what he says (in the zombie apocalypse maybe that's a good thing for a leader to be), Sarita seemed rather stable (too bad she died, through no stupidity of her own), Bonnie might be a moron when it comes to choosing sides, but at least she's good with a weapon and apparently a halfway decent survivor, Mike is strong, quick thinking, brave, and seems to actually have no character flaws, and is a good group follower, and Jane (despite ditching the group) is the penultimate survivor, who actually teaches Clem SMART tactics and has a massive amount of common sense.
And don't get me wrong, I was pissed that Sarita, Sarah, and Nick died. Especially Sarah and Nick, because of how your choices previously seemed to give the red herring that they might do something based on prior acts to 'redeem' themselves a bit before they'd die (though everyone knew they would EVENTUALLY die). But it was clear from the get go that everyone from the cabin was going to die because of a 'too dumb to live' reason. Originally, Luke seemed like he was not 'too dumb to live' but the more I see his actions and choices, the more I think he really fit in with the cabin group in simply making the dumbest choices imaginable in a zombie apocalypse.
Yeah, Luke was wrong for getting food after not having had any sleep or food for days. He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserable. He was wrong for being afraid that shooting at Carver could have gotten his friends killed.
Kenny 'choked' when he left Shawn to die. He was stupid for thinking that he had any chance of bull-rushing a group of armed men. He abandoned a group of strangers and needed a child to convince him to stop grieving.
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, because I personally believe they're both flawed but good-hearted men.
Kenny does step up when he's needed. He makes the tough choices. Yes, he gets tunnel vision about what needs to get done, but I'd rather ha… moreve someone focused than someone who messes up EVERY TIME HE'S NEEDED.
Getting caught when he just needed to wait for Clem to give him the walkie talkie (seriously, you're going looking for food NOW?)
Getting his rocks off when he needed to keep a watch out for walkers, given the fact that there was a woman going INTO LABOR at the same time, and he knew there was a herd nearby (since they had JUST ESCAPED IT)
Running off when Carver attacked (maybe if they had multiple people with guns - they could have taken out Carver from multiple angles when Kenny was outside and shot one of Carver's men)
Luke chokes when he's needed. Kenny doesn't choke - he just gets focused on ONE way of doing things. And lets be honest, finding a boat was NOT a bad idea. Leaving the motel when they were STARVING, in a m… [view original content]
Actually yes, Luke was wrong for trying to get food when in Carver's compound and with Clem's life on the line trying to get him the walkie talkie. He needed to WAIT 2 FRIGGIN HOURS.
He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserable because PEOPLE WERE RELYING ON HIM TO KEEP WATCH. His 'not keepign miserable' got people killed and was Ben levels of stupid.
Luke wasnt afraid that shooting carver could have gotten his friends killed. Luke FLED totally.
Kenny did choke when he let Shawn die, but that was also in the BEGINNING of the Zombie apocalypse, where he froze. He's LONG since made up for that. And this is over a year and a half after the zombie apocalypse - Luke doesnt have the same excuse that 'this is a new thing' that Kenny had when he didnt help Shawn.. Also, he wasnt stupid for thinking he could bull rush armed men. There were only 3 when the door opened. There were 12 of them in the truck. 12 vs 3. That's not stupid. That's odds in their favor if he wasnt the only one trying to get free.
Kenny is MUCH..... MUCH.... MUCH better than Luke as someone to watch your back in a zombie apocalypse. And so yeah, one is definitely better than the other. I didnt like Kenny as much as a lot of others in the first group, but compared to EVERYONE in the cabin, Kenny is easily the best by a LONG shot (except maybe Pete, who is dead)
Yeah, Luke was wrong for getting food after not having had any sleep or food for days. He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserab… morele. He was wrong for being afraid that shooting at Carver could have gotten his friends killed.
Kenny 'choked' when he left Shawn to die. He was stupid for thinking that he had any chance of bull-rushing a group of armed men. He abandoned a group of strangers and needed a child to convince him to stop grieving.
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, because I personally believe they're both flawed but good-hearted men.
Luke had to wait another day after his initial rendezvous with Clem. Men aren't robots. And the point that I think a lot of people have missed out on was that Luke & Kenny were guilty of the same thing - abandoning people who needed their help in order to deal with their own grief. Yet Luke's been receiving much more hatred for this than Kenny, who happens to unload all his anger onto a little girl.
One other thing to consider is that Luke doesn't seem to have the 'strength' to kill another human being. He may point guns at people for self-defense, but it's telling that he struggled to have the "moral high ground" even when it was most practical to execute Carver.
Some of Luke's "heroics" aren't witnessed directly by the player, which may contribute to why people seem to like him less. We didn't see him tirelessly cross an entire state for over 24 hours just to rescue his friends. We didn't see the hours he spent trying to convince Sarah, after having run through an entire horde just to keep track of her. Some players may have even missed out on how Luke was the one in the cabin who eventually convinced his group to rethink their treatment of Clem and let her out of the shed.
I would trust him as much as I would Kenny, which is to say very little.
Actually yes, Luke was wrong for trying to get food when in Carver's compound and with Clem's life on the line trying to get him the walkie … moretalkie. He needed to WAIT 2 FRIGGIN HOURS.
He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserable because PEOPLE WERE RELYING ON HIM TO KEEP WATCH. His 'not keepign miserable' got people killed and was Ben levels of stupid.
Luke wasnt afraid that shooting carver could have gotten his friends killed. Luke FLED totally.
Kenny did choke when he let Shawn die, but that was also in the BEGINNING of the Zombie apocalypse, where he froze. He's LONG since made up for that. And this is over a year and a half after the zombie apocalypse - Luke doesnt have the same excuse that 'this is a new thing' that Kenny had when he didnt help Shawn.. Also, he wasnt stupid for thinking he could bull rush armed men. There were only 3 when the door opened. There were 12 of them in the truck. 12 vs 3. That's not stupid.… [view original content]
The only person Kenny abandonned was Shawn. ONE day after the zombie apocalypse began. Luke's abandonning of his friends happened over 2 years after the zombie apocalypse start. Major, major difference.
Luke's receiving more hatred because his actions are idiotic, while Kenny's are just being angry after his girlfriend JUST DIED (very possibly when Clem hacks off her arm in the middle of a herd, which causes her to scream, which causes her to get eaten). AND Kenny obviously gets over it very quickly afterwards, because he's back to being protective of Clem later and friendly to Clem at the ranger station. Luke doesnt get over his stupid actions. You can fix a temper - you can't fix stupid.
And Luke being butt-hurt that Clem watched Carver get killed without looking away, after everything that CArver did? I find that a lot more unforgiveable than Kenny blowing off steam. Frankly, Bonnie shouldnt have had Clem go in to talk to Kenny, and should have let Kenny have a few to be by himself. Even Clem didnt want to go in there.
Moral high ground? What's the moral high ground of not being happy that Carver, who killed MULTIPLE members of your group, get killed himself? He sure didn't seem to have the moral high ground when he had to choose between leaving Sarah behind or getting her to come with them - he "was up on that roof right away" as he said it.
Heroics of crossing a state for over 24 hours to rescue his friends? Lets think about how good he did. Maybe he should have foraged for some food before breaking into the compound and TRYING TO STEAL FOOD IN THE COMPOUND. It's not like he didnt know where Carver's compound was. No, being heroically stupid is not heroic. He tells Clem to meet him at a certain place, at a certain time, then doesnt show up. That puts Clem at risk because he was hungry. He doesnt know how to stick to a plan, even when its HIS OWN PLAN.
As for Luke getting the group to rethink their treatment of Clem? I give a lot more credit to Pete than Luke. They didnt 'let her out of the shed' because of Luke's convincing them. They let her out of the shed because they heard the fight in the shed, and when they saw that Clem had killed a walker, on her own, in a confined space, with a HAMMER.... after stitching up her own arm (and could have left at any time since she had a way to escape), that she probably WAS telling the truth after all. Not because of Luke convincing them.
I'd trust Kenny a hell of a lot more than I'd trust Luke, after all that Luke has done wrong. Don't even think there's a moral equivalency between Kenny leaving Shawn to die after his own son almost died, when he froze becaues the Zombie apocalypse JUST STARTED one day beforehand.... vs Luke, who's supposedly a seasoned survivor 2+ years into the ZA, leaving all his friends who he was VERY close with to die. Seriously, wanting to have sex is not a good reason to not keep watch, right when Rebecca is about to go into labor and there's a herd close by. He could have waited until the group with the pregnant lady was secure FIRST. I find it impossible to defend such an idiotic move like that. By the way, when they were in the trailer? Luke was the one making all the loud noises, attracting the walkers - not nearly catatonic Sarah.
Luke had to wait another day after his initial rendezvous with Clem. Men aren't robots. And the point that I think a lot of people have mi… moressed out on was that Luke & Kenny were guilty of the same thing - abandoning people who needed their help in order to deal with their own grief. Yet Luke's been receiving much more hatred for this than Kenny, who happens to unload all his anger onto a little girl.
One other thing to consider is that Luke doesn't seem to have the 'strength' to kill another human being. He may point guns at people for self-defense, but it's telling that he struggled to have the "moral high ground" even when it was most practical to execute Carver.
Some of Luke's "heroics" aren't witnessed directly by the player, which may contribute to why people seem to like him less. We didn't see him tirelessly cross an entire state for over 24 hours just to rescue his friends. We didn't see the hours he spent trying to con… [view original content]
I'd say it's lazy writing. Fans have been bending over backwards to try to make the writers' gaps more understandable - see Clementine's am… morenesia regarding Christa's pregnancy in Episode 4 - but I fear that Telltale may actually take advantage of this tendency in order to be even more lax with writing for future episodes.
By the way, you're talking about Luke going without food for a day? What about Clem? She didnt go off mission - she didnt have food and yet managed to bring the walkie talkie to the right place at the right time without thinking 'hey I should go looking for food'
Luke had to wait another day after his initial rendezvous with Clem. Men aren't robots. And the point that I think a lot of people have mi… moressed out on was that Luke & Kenny were guilty of the same thing - abandoning people who needed their help in order to deal with their own grief. Yet Luke's been receiving much more hatred for this than Kenny, who happens to unload all his anger onto a little girl.
One other thing to consider is that Luke doesn't seem to have the 'strength' to kill another human being. He may point guns at people for self-defense, but it's telling that he struggled to have the "moral high ground" even when it was most practical to execute Carver.
Some of Luke's "heroics" aren't witnessed directly by the player, which may contribute to why people seem to like him less. We didn't see him tirelessly cross an entire state for over 24 hours just to rescue his friends. We didn't see the hours he spent trying to con… [view original content]
She didn't have to run across an entire state when she was being shipped to Carver's community, and it's implied that they had food on their second night. It's on the third day, after Kenny's beatdown, when Carver says "No supper for y'all tonight." Luke didn't have any of that.
Just put yourself in his position. How long have you gone without sleep? Without food or water? Do you know what that does to your judgment? Let's not forget that shortly after Luke is caught, he is beaten to the point that his ribs are broken, and doesn't have any rest afterwards. He then loses Carlos and his friend, fails to rescue Sarah on his own, and is forced to realize that his "best" might not be enough for his friends.
By the way, you're talking about Luke going without food for a day? What about Clem? She didnt go off mission - she didnt have food and yet… more managed to bring the walkie talkie to the right place at the right time without thinking 'hey I should go looking for food'
The only person Kenny abandonned was Shawn. ONE day after the zombie apocalypse began. Luke's abandonning of his friends happened over 2 yea… morers after the zombie apocalypse start. Major, major difference.
Luke's receiving more hatred because his actions are idiotic, while Kenny's are just being angry after his girlfriend JUST DIED (very possibly when Clem hacks off her arm in the middle of a herd, which causes her to scream, which causes her to get eaten). AND Kenny obviously gets over it very quickly afterwards, because he's back to being protective of Clem later and friendly to Clem at the ranger station. Luke doesnt get over his stupid actions. You can fix a temper - you can't fix stupid.
And Luke being butt-hurt that Clem watched Carver get killed without looking away, after everything that CArver did? I find that a lot more unforgiveable than Kenny blowing off steam. Frankly, Bonnie shouldnt have had Clem go in to talk to Kenny, a… [view original content]
I never hated Luke, he's a good guy with good intentions and still has high moral standards, but like anyone he has flaws too. Btw. we share names so +1 more to him. xD
Luke is cool, I don't understand why people hate him, kenny is unhinged and makes stupid decisions, fair enough kenny is a good guy but he's becoming crazier every episode, luke slept with jane, so fucking what, I would have done the same in that situation
I seriously doubt the armed bandits who had this group in the palm of their hands would actually let them go after doing so. It seemed more like a trick.
Regardless, she couldn't hear what they were saying most likely due to her being far away and focused on the shooting. As a result, she was at least TRYING to save them from bandits regardless, which is just as good really.
What do you mean she saved them from bandits? I was trying to hash out some terms with them when she randomly decided to shoot one of them i… moren the head and start a shootout <_<
I don't think the idea to abandon Lilly really compares because the situations were very different. It was more of a heat of the moment kind of thing with Kenny. His wife and child just got tackled by a walker and the place was getting swarmed.
The people who hate him for Amid the Ruins are hypocrites.
Most people on the forums were saying 'Oh luke is too perfect, we like Kenny more because he's flawed'. And then we see that that isn't true and is just an excuse, as when Luke shows flaws they attack him for it.
i meant that he opposed Kenny, demanding that they would stay there for some time
Are you referencing the argument over whether to let Rebecca rest for a few days or head out in the morning? If so, then it should be noted that Luke actually concedes when Rebecca herself says that she wants to go with Kenny's plan. He argues for Rebecca's sake, not because he enjoys fighting with him, and lets it go for the time being when Rebecca dismisses his concerns.
also saying Kenny is a creep because he is bonded to the baby
It's up to the player to decide how they felt about his interactions with the baby, but the writers were intentionally throwing in some suspicion of Kenny becoming overly possessive for the player. They wouldn't keep having Kenny hold the baby while Rebecca calls for her son, or even have Luke bring it up in the first place if it wasn't a legitimate criticism.
he abandoned it for some time. he came back but he abandoned it for some time nonetheless
What was he supposed to do though? He couldn't take on all of Carver's people by himself. We saw that resisting against Carver got people killed. What could he do if he was captured? At least he was able to collect his thoughts and start coming up with a plan from the outside.
its not good to suggest leaving folks at all... also, i dont remember it word to word and it's a bit of a fail phrasing from my side - i mea… morent that he opposed Kenny, demanding that they would stay there for some time, also saying Kenny is a creep because he is bonded to the baby. he abandoned it for some time. he came back but he abandoned it for some time nonetheless
Kenny does step up when he's needed. He makes the tough choices. Yes, he gets tunnel vision about what needs to get done, but I'd rather ha… moreve someone focused than someone who messes up EVERY TIME HE'S NEEDED.
Getting caught when he just needed to wait for Clem to give him the walkie talkie (seriously, you're going looking for food NOW?)
Getting his rocks off when he needed to keep a watch out for walkers, given the fact that there was a woman going INTO LABOR at the same time, and he knew there was a herd nearby (since they had JUST ESCAPED IT)
Running off when Carver attacked (maybe if they had multiple people with guns - they could have taken out Carver from multiple angles when Kenny was outside and shot one of Carver's men)
Luke chokes when he's needed. Kenny doesn't choke - he just gets focused on ONE way of doing things. And lets be honest, finding a boat was NOT a bad idea. Leaving the motel when they were STARVING, in a m… [view original content]
Kenny does step up when he's needed. He makes the tough choices. Yes, he gets tunnel vision about what needs to get done, but I'd rather ha… moreve someone focused than someone who messes up EVERY TIME HE'S NEEDED.
Getting caught when he just needed to wait for Clem to give him the walkie talkie (seriously, you're going looking for food NOW?)
Getting his rocks off when he needed to keep a watch out for walkers, given the fact that there was a woman going INTO LABOR at the same time, and he knew there was a herd nearby (since they had JUST ESCAPED IT)
Running off when Carver attacked (maybe if they had multiple people with guns - they could have taken out Carver from multiple angles when Kenny was outside and shot one of Carver's men)
Luke chokes when he's needed. Kenny doesn't choke - he just gets focused on ONE way of doing things. And lets be honest, finding a boat was NOT a bad idea. Leaving the motel when they were STARVING, in a m… [view original content]
I agree. I think a lot of people liked Luke back in Episode 1 or at least, they thought he was okay. And then Kenny showed up again and inst… moreantly disliked Luke and it kind of spiraled from there. Which is unfortunate, because you know together the two of them and Clem could make an awesome team.
I still like Luke. Yeah, he's made mistakes, but he's been playing the 'hero' role for most of the season. He still believes in doing the right thing and he cares about Clem enough to ask her if she's okay. Kenny doesn't do that any more. I'm with Luke if it comes to picking sides and I'd be upset if he got killed.
I think as a player my loyalties lie with Kenny because I've known him longer. As Clementine, my loyalities lie with Luke. And I'm playing as Clementine, not myself.
My thoughts on Luke getting caught in Carver's camp: I see this in no way as screwing up; he hadn't eaten in days, drank in days and slept in days. That would impact massively on your abilities and judgement. Especially after trekking across a state for days with no food, water or sleep, and probably in the cold, as Luke didn't have time to take any supplies with him. He's in the same outfit he wore back at the ski lodge, implying he set off after the truck immediately, without going back to the lodge for a few supplies first (which in hindsight would have been the best idea). However I think he felt time was the essence here.
You must know what it feels like to be hungry, thirsty or extremely tired, even if only for a few hours and you must realise that your behaviour changes and your judgement becomes lax.
Also. remember, Luke met Clementine the day before he was caught and asked her to be back in 24 hours. He could have snuck off to get food and water (which I don't blame him for) anytime in that 24 hours, expecting to be back in time for Clementine. It wasn't that he was unreliable, It was just unlucky that he got caught. And Clem hadn't been back to the yard since she got up that morning, so Luke could have been caught anytime whilst she was doing her morning chores.
Honestly, yes Luke should have planned ahead slightly and foraged for food and looked for water whilst he was making his way to the camp, that would have been the smart thing to do, but as I said before, I think he felt time was the essence; he didn't know what Carver planned to do with his friends, he just knew that Carver was very angry that they had left, and he didn't know what was going to happen.
Initially I absolutely loved his character and the rapport he had with Clem. TTG sidelined him to focus on Kenny as S2 progressed and stunted his potential as a character IMO. I could forgive him for the whole Jane fiasco, but I felt he was quite petty and immature with the way he was picking fights with Kenny at the close of AtR. I suppose I still like him even now.... He is responsible, loyal and a good influence on Clem... But I've grown to prefer other characters over him whose development has been consistent and more dynamic (Clem, Kenny, Rebecca, etc.)
Yup. I like them both i have struggle choosing one, Kenny may help you at some points but at the rest time he could be a big d*ck. On the other side Luke is trying to prove himself but in big moments goes Ben style...I struggle so much about these choices, really i just can't decide who will i save in ep.5 (possible choice) i will feel very bad if i can't save them both
I like both Luke and Kenny, but if there's a Luke/Kenny choice and Kenny still hasn't snapped out of the baby-the-only-goal-in-life phase, I'm going to have to go with Luke, because Kenny will be pretty much be suicidal by then. Sorry Ken
I certainly like him more than Kenny, but it's not like I'm team Luke or something. One problem of this season simply is that there aren't many left to care about anymore.
Comments
XD I've been trying to up vote just about everyone!
I don't know about you, but I figured Lee was only 'hashing' in order to stall them. Making a deal with them like the St. Johns would only prolong the danger that Ben had put them in.
Leaving was the right choice.
I still love Luke a lot. Not as much as I did before episode four, perhaps, but he's still a good guy and the character I see my Clementine having a future with. It's a little tiring reading so much Kenny praise and Luke bashing all the time though, so I mostly just lurk and don't really speak up about it anymore, but I'm sure there are a lot more Luke fans than it would seem.
My fingers are crossed for some strong material for him in the finale.
I'm still cool with Luke, since I can't decide if his lame reaction to Nick's death was just bad writing. I appreciate that he actually apologized for screwing up and seemed to be genuinely remorseful, which is more than I can say for some characters.
I like Luke. Always have. Even though I like Kenny more than I like Luke it doesn't mean that I hate the guy. He's cool in my book.
"Fuck...fuck..." is a valid reaction for someone who's surrounded by zombies and is aware that his other friends need his immediate help. Remember that, unlike Kenny or Sarah, he didn't personally see Nick die.
I've read people's attempts to justify Luke's underwhelming reaction to Nick's death, that he's always been portrayed as someone who tries to keep his emotions in check for the sake of others, that he slept with Jane as a way to cope, etc, and I actually agree with them. My problem with the writing is that it's unclear whether those justifications are fanon or canon. Hopefully, Episode 5 makes it clearer.
In other words, I can't decide if the writer's made Luke react that way on purpose, or just gave him that one variable line if Nick was saved because they were lazy.
I'd say it's lazy writing. Fans have been bending over backwards to try to make the writers' gaps more understandable - see Clementine's amnesia regarding Christa's pregnancy in Episode 4 - but I fear that Telltale may actually take advantage of this tendency in order to be even more lax with writing for future episodes.
You're probably right, unfortunately. Sigh, at least I can always turn to the fanon to dull the pain of lazy writing...
i like both kenny and luke but i don't trust them, i trust Bonnie and Mike
Because of Amid The Ruins. Honestly, I forgive him even if it really wasn't
the good time to do this with Jane.
Kenny does step up when he's needed. He makes the tough choices. Yes, he gets tunnel vision about what needs to get done, but I'd rather have someone focused than someone who messes up EVERY TIME HE'S NEEDED.
Getting caught when he just needed to wait for Clem to give him the walkie talkie (seriously, you're going looking for food NOW?)
Getting his rocks off when he needed to keep a watch out for walkers, given the fact that there was a woman going INTO LABOR at the same time, and he knew there was a herd nearby (since they had JUST ESCAPED IT)
Running off when Carver attacked (maybe if they had multiple people with guns - they could have taken out Carver from multiple angles when Kenny was outside and shot one of Carver's men)
Luke chokes when he's needed. Kenny doesn't choke - he just gets focused on ONE way of doing things. And lets be honest, finding a boat was NOT a bad idea. Leaving the motel when they were STARVING, in a mobile RV, was NOT a bad idea. Trying to shoot Carver was NOT a bad idea. Trying to escape the truck before they got to the compound was NOT a bad idea. Kenny is bullheaded, but at least usually has ideas that make sense. Luke has been getting steadily dumber and he's beginning to reach into Ben territories. Killing Larry - hate to say this but it was NOT a bad idea - he was having a heart attack and dying, and they were locked in a meat locker, and Larry would be TOUGH without needing to worry about his heart (ie, as a zombie).
Honestly the entire group from the cabin were hopelessly stupid, except for Pete. And unfortunately he got bit. Sarah was an autistic who couldnt cope and froze up. Nick (much as Iiked him and thought he had potential) messed up multiple times, killing Matthew, not being able to help Pete, getting drunk when he and Clem are holed up, deciding to run for help THROUGH A PACK OF WALKERS APPARENTLY... when all they needed to do was go through the skylight and jump over the side of the fence. Carlos was an idiot who couldnt tell the difference between a walker bite and a dog bite, yet is a doctor (apparently the dumbest doctor on the planet) and continually said how he did not trust Clem because she took fishing wire, a needle, and peroxide to STITCH HER OWN ARM when he wouldnt (because his brilliant idea was to keep her locked in a shed, where the infection would have killed her whether it was a dog bite or not), Rebecca was a jerk (and frankly running away from a secure compound when you're pregnant, even if it's run by someone like Carver, was DUMB), Alvin was a pushover who didnt speak up to do the right thing when Clem needed him. They're now all dead, except for Luke.
Fortunately, the new group 2.0 is slightly better. Kenny is a good survivor, even though he's bullheaded and gets pissy if you don't do what he says (in the zombie apocalypse maybe that's a good thing for a leader to be), Sarita seemed rather stable (too bad she died, through no stupidity of her own), Bonnie might be a moron when it comes to choosing sides, but at least she's good with a weapon and apparently a halfway decent survivor, Mike is strong, quick thinking, brave, and seems to actually have no character flaws, and is a good group follower, and Jane (despite ditching the group) is the penultimate survivor, who actually teaches Clem SMART tactics and has a massive amount of common sense.
And don't get me wrong, I was pissed that Sarita, Sarah, and Nick died. Especially Sarah and Nick, because of how your choices previously seemed to give the red herring that they might do something based on prior acts to 'redeem' themselves a bit before they'd die (though everyone knew they would EVENTUALLY die). But it was clear from the get go that everyone from the cabin was going to die because of a 'too dumb to live' reason. Originally, Luke seemed like he was not 'too dumb to live' but the more I see his actions and choices, the more I think he really fit in with the cabin group in simply making the dumbest choices imaginable in a zombie apocalypse.
Yeah, Luke was wrong for getting food after not having had any sleep or food for days. He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserable. He was wrong for being afraid that shooting at Carver could have gotten his friends killed.
Kenny 'choked' when he left Shawn to die. He was stupid for thinking that he had any chance of bull-rushing a group of armed men. He abandoned a group of strangers and needed a child to convince him to stop grieving.
I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, because I personally believe they're both flawed but good-hearted men.
Actually yes, Luke was wrong for trying to get food when in Carver's compound and with Clem's life on the line trying to get him the walkie talkie. He needed to WAIT 2 FRIGGIN HOURS.
He was wrong for taking a moment to not feel miserable because PEOPLE WERE RELYING ON HIM TO KEEP WATCH. His 'not keepign miserable' got people killed and was Ben levels of stupid.
Luke wasnt afraid that shooting carver could have gotten his friends killed. Luke FLED totally.
Kenny did choke when he let Shawn die, but that was also in the BEGINNING of the Zombie apocalypse, where he froze. He's LONG since made up for that. And this is over a year and a half after the zombie apocalypse - Luke doesnt have the same excuse that 'this is a new thing' that Kenny had when he didnt help Shawn.. Also, he wasnt stupid for thinking he could bull rush armed men. There were only 3 when the door opened. There were 12 of them in the truck. 12 vs 3. That's not stupid. That's odds in their favor if he wasnt the only one trying to get free.
Kenny is MUCH..... MUCH.... MUCH better than Luke as someone to watch your back in a zombie apocalypse. And so yeah, one is definitely better than the other. I didnt like Kenny as much as a lot of others in the first group, but compared to EVERYONE in the cabin, Kenny is easily the best by a LONG shot (except maybe Pete, who is dead)
Luke had to wait another day after his initial rendezvous with Clem. Men aren't robots. And the point that I think a lot of people have missed out on was that Luke & Kenny were guilty of the same thing - abandoning people who needed their help in order to deal with their own grief. Yet Luke's been receiving much more hatred for this than Kenny, who happens to unload all his anger onto a little girl.
One other thing to consider is that Luke doesn't seem to have the 'strength' to kill another human being. He may point guns at people for self-defense, but it's telling that he struggled to have the "moral high ground" even when it was most practical to execute Carver.
Some of Luke's "heroics" aren't witnessed directly by the player, which may contribute to why people seem to like him less. We didn't see him tirelessly cross an entire state for over 24 hours just to rescue his friends. We didn't see the hours he spent trying to convince Sarah, after having run through an entire horde just to keep track of her. Some players may have even missed out on how Luke was the one in the cabin who eventually convinced his group to rethink their treatment of Clem and let her out of the shed.
I would trust him as much as I would Kenny, which is to say very little.
The only person Kenny abandonned was Shawn. ONE day after the zombie apocalypse began. Luke's abandonning of his friends happened over 2 years after the zombie apocalypse start. Major, major difference.
Luke's receiving more hatred because his actions are idiotic, while Kenny's are just being angry after his girlfriend JUST DIED (very possibly when Clem hacks off her arm in the middle of a herd, which causes her to scream, which causes her to get eaten). AND Kenny obviously gets over it very quickly afterwards, because he's back to being protective of Clem later and friendly to Clem at the ranger station. Luke doesnt get over his stupid actions. You can fix a temper - you can't fix stupid.
And Luke being butt-hurt that Clem watched Carver get killed without looking away, after everything that CArver did? I find that a lot more unforgiveable than Kenny blowing off steam. Frankly, Bonnie shouldnt have had Clem go in to talk to Kenny, and should have let Kenny have a few to be by himself. Even Clem didnt want to go in there.
Moral high ground? What's the moral high ground of not being happy that Carver, who killed MULTIPLE members of your group, get killed himself? He sure didn't seem to have the moral high ground when he had to choose between leaving Sarah behind or getting her to come with them - he "was up on that roof right away" as he said it.
Heroics of crossing a state for over 24 hours to rescue his friends? Lets think about how good he did. Maybe he should have foraged for some food before breaking into the compound and TRYING TO STEAL FOOD IN THE COMPOUND. It's not like he didnt know where Carver's compound was. No, being heroically stupid is not heroic. He tells Clem to meet him at a certain place, at a certain time, then doesnt show up. That puts Clem at risk because he was hungry. He doesnt know how to stick to a plan, even when its HIS OWN PLAN.
As for Luke getting the group to rethink their treatment of Clem? I give a lot more credit to Pete than Luke. They didnt 'let her out of the shed' because of Luke's convincing them. They let her out of the shed because they heard the fight in the shed, and when they saw that Clem had killed a walker, on her own, in a confined space, with a HAMMER.... after stitching up her own arm (and could have left at any time since she had a way to escape), that she probably WAS telling the truth after all. Not because of Luke convincing them.
I'd trust Kenny a hell of a lot more than I'd trust Luke, after all that Luke has done wrong. Don't even think there's a moral equivalency between Kenny leaving Shawn to die after his own son almost died, when he froze becaues the Zombie apocalypse JUST STARTED one day beforehand.... vs Luke, who's supposedly a seasoned survivor 2+ years into the ZA, leaving all his friends who he was VERY close with to die. Seriously, wanting to have sex is not a good reason to not keep watch, right when Rebecca is about to go into labor and there's a herd close by. He could have waited until the group with the pregnant lady was secure FIRST. I find it impossible to defend such an idiotic move like that. By the way, when they were in the trailer? Luke was the one making all the loud noises, attracting the walkers - not nearly catatonic Sarah.
I agree about that. Luke's lack of reaction about Nick's death? Lazy writing. The entire group's lack of reaction to Sarah's death? More lazy writing.
By the way, you're talking about Luke going without food for a day? What about Clem? She didnt go off mission - she didnt have food and yet managed to bring the walkie talkie to the right place at the right time without thinking 'hey I should go looking for food'
She didn't have to run across an entire state when she was being shipped to Carver's community, and it's implied that they had food on their second night. It's on the third day, after Kenny's beatdown, when Carver says "No supper for y'all tonight." Luke didn't have any of that.
Just put yourself in his position. How long have you gone without sleep? Without food or water? Do you know what that does to your judgment? Let's not forget that shortly after Luke is caught, he is beaten to the point that his ribs are broken, and doesn't have any rest afterwards. He then loses Carlos and his friend, fails to rescue Sarah on his own, and is forced to realize that his "best" might not be enough for his friends.
I still do, don't worry. I don't think my love for Luke will ever change, I will probably cry my heart out if he died.
Kenny abandoned clem in the middle of a horde after Sarita
I never hated Luke, he's a good guy with good intentions and still has high moral standards, but like anyone he has flaws too. Btw. we share names so +1 more to him. xD
Luke is cool, I don't understand why people hate him, kenny is unhinged and makes stupid decisions, fair enough kenny is a good guy but he's becoming crazier every episode, luke slept with jane, so fucking what, I would have done the same in that situation
I dont hate Luke but i prefer Kenny because HE'S MAH BOY! Bad boys for ever..
I'm neutral to him, but there are lots of people who love Luke.
I seriously doubt the armed bandits who had this group in the palm of their hands would actually let them go after doing so. It seemed more like a trick.
Regardless, she couldn't hear what they were saying most likely due to her being far away and focused on the shooting. As a result, she was at least TRYING to save them from bandits regardless, which is just as good really.
The people who hate him for Amid the Ruins are hypocrites.
Most people on the forums were saying 'Oh luke is too perfect, we like Kenny more because he's flawed'. And then we see that that isn't true and is just an excuse, as when Luke shows flaws they attack him for it.
Ahh, sorry. I forgot to reply to this.
Are you referencing the argument over whether to let Rebecca rest for a few days or head out in the morning? If so, then it should be noted that Luke actually concedes when Rebecca herself says that she wants to go with Kenny's plan. He argues for Rebecca's sake, not because he enjoys fighting with him, and lets it go for the time being when Rebecca dismisses his concerns.
It's up to the player to decide how they felt about his interactions with the baby, but the writers were intentionally throwing in some suspicion of Kenny becoming overly possessive for the player. They wouldn't keep having Kenny hold the baby while Rebecca calls for her son, or even have Luke bring it up in the first place if it wasn't a legitimate criticism.
What was he supposed to do though? He couldn't take on all of Carver's people by himself. We saw that resisting against Carver got people killed. What could he do if he was captured? At least he was able to collect his thoughts and start coming up with a plan from the outside.
Stopped reading after you called Sarah Autistic..............
Luke trekking across an entire state and sneaking into a compound patrolled by armed guards in order to save his friends was 'choking'?
Yeah, ok.
And abandoned her AND Lee in season 1 in my game.
Yup. I predict that if Kenny and Luke ever make amends and set aside their differences, you'll see a lot more people easing up on Luke.
Luke is one of the more stable members of the group. He was the most reasonable when you first met and yes he made mistakes but who hasn't?
I still like Luke. Yeah, he's made mistakes, but he's been playing the 'hero' role for most of the season. He still believes in doing the right thing and he cares about Clem enough to ask her if she's okay. Kenny doesn't do that any more. I'm with Luke if it comes to picking sides and I'd be upset if he got killed.
I think as a player my loyalties lie with Kenny because I've known him longer. As Clementine, my loyalities lie with Luke. And I'm playing as Clementine, not myself.
My thoughts on Luke getting caught in Carver's camp: I see this in no way as screwing up; he hadn't eaten in days, drank in days and slept in days. That would impact massively on your abilities and judgement. Especially after trekking across a state for days with no food, water or sleep, and probably in the cold, as Luke didn't have time to take any supplies with him. He's in the same outfit he wore back at the ski lodge, implying he set off after the truck immediately, without going back to the lodge for a few supplies first (which in hindsight would have been the best idea). However I think he felt time was the essence here.
You must know what it feels like to be hungry, thirsty or extremely tired, even if only for a few hours and you must realise that your behaviour changes and your judgement becomes lax.
Also. remember, Luke met Clementine the day before he was caught and asked her to be back in 24 hours. He could have snuck off to get food and water (which I don't blame him for) anytime in that 24 hours, expecting to be back in time for Clementine. It wasn't that he was unreliable, It was just unlucky that he got caught. And Clem hadn't been back to the yard since she got up that morning, so Luke could have been caught anytime whilst she was doing her morning chores.
Honestly, yes Luke should have planned ahead slightly and foraged for food and looked for water whilst he was making his way to the camp, that would have been the smart thing to do, but as I said before, I think he felt time was the essence; he didn't know what Carver planned to do with his friends, he just knew that Carver was very angry that they had left, and he didn't know what was going to happen.
Initially I absolutely loved his character and the rapport he had with Clem. TTG sidelined him to focus on Kenny as S2 progressed and stunted his potential as a character IMO. I could forgive him for the whole Jane fiasco, but I felt he was quite petty and immature with the way he was picking fights with Kenny at the close of AtR. I suppose I still like him even now.... He is responsible, loyal and a good influence on Clem... But I've grown to prefer other characters over him whose development has been consistent and more dynamic (Clem, Kenny, Rebecca, etc.)
Hahaha ;D Thanks
Yup. I like them both i have struggle choosing one, Kenny may help you at some points but at the rest time he could be a big d*ck. On the other side Luke is trying to prove himself but in big moments goes Ben style...I struggle so much about these choices, really i just can't decide who will i save in ep.5 (possible choice) i will feel very bad if i can't save them both
I like both Luke and Kenny, but if there's a Luke/Kenny choice and Kenny still hasn't snapped out of the baby-the-only-goal-in-life phase, I'm going to have to go with Luke, because Kenny will be pretty much be suicidal by then. Sorry Ken
I certainly like him more than Kenny, but it's not like I'm team Luke or something. One problem of this season simply is that there aren't many left to care about anymore.