Well, Jane risked AJ freezing to death to prove her 'point' and manipulated Clem into killing Kenny. And she believes in abandoning people once they become a problem(Jaime, Sarah). These are her biggest faults.
Will you stop we made coutless of threads andposts and comments.
She kept AJ in a warm car.
And second she didn't manipulate Clem into killing ,remember what she said stay out of this , and people that are manipulated don't think straight and are weak of will and are guilable I don't think Clementine is like that.Clementine just CHOSE TO KILL KENNY FOR THE SAFETY OF HER SELFLESS FRIEND
Well, Jane risked AJ freezing to death to prove her 'point' and manipulated Clem into killing Kenny. And she believes in abandoning people once they become a problem(Jaime, Sarah). These are her biggest faults.
She tells us she only returned because of Clem. She feels very awkward about Luke and doesn't want to speak to him at the camp.
The fight in the car just happens. It's not just because of Jane. Kenny hates her guts too.
You seem like one of those crazy people who thinks all her motivations are about sex or something.
Regardless, having an argument with Kenny and trying to convince Clem to leave him is not selfish. She wants Clem to survive because, as we know, she cares about her. That's selfless.
It's also interesting how you ignored all my points apart from one, and used that to pretend your entire argument is valid.
She returns to the group when she hears gunfire in order to protect them because she feels guilty for leaving. That's not selfish.
N… moreope, She returned because of Luke. And when Luke died, she felt like this is not her group anymore, so she starts the fight with Kenny in order to convince Clem to follow her and leave together. That's pretty selfish.
AJ was not at any real risk as she didn't plan for it to get to a stage where Kenyn might kill her.
She believes that, but shows growth a… morebout it. She shows a lot of character growth if you convicne her to save Sarah.
She expresses a desire to change, and regrets her past actions, which is what sets her apart from kenny.
She returns to the group when she hears gunfire in order to protect them because she feels guilty for leaving. That's not selfish.
N… moreope, She returned because of Luke. And when Luke died, she felt like this is not her group anymore, so she starts the fight with Kenny in order to convince Clem to follow her and leave together. That's pretty selfish.
I don't care who started it. You don't tell a man his wife, or girlfriend, was scared of him and wanted to get away from him less than three days after he lost her in a horde of undead ghouls.
I thought we were talking about Jane and not Jane vs. Kenny? If there's any confusion let me reiterate: it's impossible to make objective judgements of character. That goes for both Kenny and Jane and everyone else, which is why you have to make up your mind yourself and decide what you think is right.
We can never 'know' anything about anyone's motivations.
In a debate between Jane and Kenny, we have to go by the evidence we have.
It… more IS wrong to believe those things if you can't give any evidence for it other than 'who knows'.
By your lgoic I can believe Kenny secretly wants to eat the baby because we never know and that would be a perfectly logical viewpoint.
I understand you're trying to say all views are valid, but when some views have evidence to back them up and their opposites don't, you have to prioritise somewhere.
I don't care who started it. You don't tell a man his wife, or girlfriend, was scared of him and wanted to get away from him less than three days after he lost her in a horde of undead ghouls.
That part ain't right!
The whole season she showed so much care for Clem.
Showing her how to scavenge walkers, how to effectively fight them, she gave her the na… moreil file as a useful tool and weapon when she left, she came back to save her from the russians ("90% of the reason I came back"), she pulled her out of the lake and finally she wanted her away from Kenny who more and more grew into a madman, that she (not only with Carver) has experienced over and over again.
Jane is the one person in the whole season that is independent and self-sufficient to get along without any help. If there is any reason for her to come back and involve herself with a group of people then it's because she deeply cares about Clem. It's absolutely obvious.
That's just nonsensical babbling about "not knowing for sure". It's pseudo-skepticism applied to human behavior.
To deny that you can objectively observe behavior is on par with denying that there is an objective material world that can be observed. If you take yourself seriously, you would have to take the stance of a solipsist that thinks everything he perceives is just a product of his mind and thus nothing is real.
Gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of discussing with people (= your own imaginations) outright insane.
So, the least common ground you need to accept is that there are objectively existing people that have an observable behavior which can be used to infer what's going on "inside" them. Else you could as well talk to any brick wall.
I thought we were talking about Jane and not Jane vs. Kenny? If there's any confusion let me reiterate: it's impossible to make objective ju… moredgements of character. That goes for both Kenny and Jane and everyone else, which is why you have to make up your mind yourself and decide what you think is right.
There is one thing you don't seem to consider: Jane came back not out of the good of her heart, but because she needed to. She couldn't go on alone anymore, and Clem was like a second chance for her after dumping her own sister.
In the ending where you shoot Kenny but don't forgive Jane, Clem walks off and Jane first shouts out "I did this for you", but then follows up with "I can't do this alone... okay? Is that what you want to hear?". For me, this is a moment of honesty and proves my hunch about Jane. Her guilt for what she's done in the past caught up with her and after hanging with the group for a bit, she couldn't take being alone anymore. - ironically, her caring about Clem, is not out of selflessness, but out of selfish guilt.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about being unable to observe behavior, only intent. You admit yourself you can at best infer intent from behavior. You can make a judgment of character, but it will never be objective.
That's just nonsensical babbling about "not knowing for sure". It's pseudo-skepticism applied to human behavior.
To deny that you can objec… moretively observe behavior is on par with denying that there is an objective material world that can be observed. If you take yourself seriously, you would have to take the stance of a solipsist that thinks everything he perceives is just a product of his mind and thus nothing is real.
Gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of discussing with people (= your own imaginations) outright insane.
So, the least common ground you need to accept is that there are objectively existing people that have an observable behavior which can be used to infer what's going on "inside" them. Else you could as well talk to any brick wall.
Jane didn't keep AJ in a warm car. The car had to of been freezing inside and the baby was barely wrapped up. Clem and Kenny had to constantly hold the baby close to their bodies in order to keep it warm. Also, Clem and Kenny got along well, so what Jane did was put herself in danger so Clem could kill Kenny just so she could only be with her. She is manipulative and still selfish.
Will you stop we made coutless of threads andposts and comments.
She kept AJ in a warm car.
And second she didn't manipulate Clem into… more killing ,remember what she said stay out of this , and people that are manipulated don't think straight and are weak of will and are guilable I don't think Clementine is like that.Clementine just CHOSE TO KILL KENNY FOR THE SAFETY OF HER SELFLESS FRIEND
Your comment is invalid.
I'm not gonna be one of people who have to pick who was right or wrong.
I simply got the Kenny ending because I couldn't bring myself to kill either of them, so the timer ran out on me. Clem just sat there frozen,staring at them both.
I don't care who started it. You don't tell a man his wife, or girlfriend, was scared of him and wanted to get away from him less than three days after he lost her in a horde of undead ghouls.
That part ain't right!
I understand what you meant, I just wanted to say that this is not necessarily a parallel between you and her. She is reluctant and distrustful towards others, yes, but for a reason, not because of paranoia. Paranoia always implies a form of irrational fear and delusion about other people wanting to hurt you, although you have no objective reason to assume that. Jane shows no signs of such a delusion. It's more than justified to be more careful than careless in the world of Walking Dead.
I understand what you meant, I just wanted to say that this is not necessarily a parallel between you and her. She is reluctant and distrust… moreful towards others, yes, but for a reason, not because of paranoia. Paranoia always implies a form of irrational fear and delusion about other people wanting to hurt you, although you have no objective reason to assume that. Jane shows no signs of such a delusion. It's more than justified to be more careful than careless in the world of Walking Dead.
Will you stop we made coutless of threads andposts and comments.
She kept AJ in a warm car.
And second she didn't manipulate Clem into… more killing ,remember what she said stay out of this , and people that are manipulated don't think straight and are weak of will and are guilable I don't think Clementine is like that.Clementine just CHOSE TO KILL KENNY FOR THE SAFETY OF HER SELFLESS FRIEND
Your comment is invalid.
While I don't particularly think Jane is selfish (though I do actually get why Kenny would have that impression since she is very standoff-ish and most of the time prioritizes her own safety above those of others ... plus he was definitely losing it), I disagree that her not going with Arvo and Mike (and possible Bonnie proves this, since we don't see any evidence that she knew a damn thing about it. I don't get the impression that either of those would have invited her along.
Also, she definitely did put AJ at risk by leaving him in the car. We've seen walkers break into cars before though and they are attracted to sounds, such as a baby crying. Plus, who knows who else could have been out there.
In the end, neither Kenny or Jane were entirely right or entirely wrong in their actions. Which is why it's such a difficult choice to make and why knowing the whole truth about Jane's manipulation makes it even harder (especially if you're the type of player who, like me, doesn't tend to rewind in order to make a different choice).
But she needed to because of the goodness in her heart. She felt she needed to protect Clem. What's horrible about that?
I don't doubt that it's partly because she didn't want to be alone, but still, she shows she cares about Clem regardless.
Even if you think for some reason every single nice thing she did to clem was just because mustache twirly 'MWAHAHAHA I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE', the fact is that she did desire to protect clem, and that simply isn't selfishness.
And if she's just a horrible evil self-centered person, if her selfishness led to her selflessness in the end, what's wrong with that anyway?
There is one thing you don't seem to consider: Jane came back not out of the good of her heart, but because she needed to. She couldn't go o… moren alone anymore, and Clem was like a second chance for her after dumping her own sister.
In the ending where you shoot Kenny but don't forgive Jane, Clem walks off and Jane first shouts out "I did this for you", but then follows up with "I can't do this alone... okay? Is that what you want to hear?". For me, this is a moment of honesty and proves my hunch about Jane. Her guilt for what she's done in the past caught up with her and after hanging with the group for a bit, she couldn't take being alone anymore. - ironically, her caring about Clem, is not out of selflessness, but out of selfish guilt.
Jane didn't keep AJ in a warm car. The car had to of been freezing inside and the baby was barely wrapped up. Clem and Kenny had to constant… morely hold the baby close to their bodies in order to keep it warm. Also, Clem and Kenny got along well, so what Jane did was put herself in danger so Clem could kill Kenny just so she could only be with her. She is manipulative and still selfish.
Kenny is an argumentative person, and tends to go overboard. Remember the train? When had that outburst with Lee, telling him that he wasn't helping anyone, and that his relationship with Clem was a sham? Remember when Ben had to shout back to Kenny and explain himself rather than retort back aggressively in order for Kenny to see things from another perspective?
What about Jane? What explains her outburst to Kenny? What does she get out from getting Kenny more and more over the edge by bringing up his battered face, that nobody will ever love him, and everyone will die around him because he is a "bomb waiting to go off". What's Kenny's answer to all this? When she says that Sarita knew it, and that Clem knows it? "I told you not to talk about my family!"
Still, when they pulled over due to the car wrecks, the two seemed to calm down. Jane was even going to apologize, I think.
Flog has agreed with you on the "not knowing for sure" because it's trivial to state that. That's why he said explicitly to look at evidence in their behavior to make any useful rational judgment about their characters because that's the only thing you can do. After that you kept on babbling about that "not knowing for sure" and that you can't make any judgment on a rational basis because non-sensical pseudo-skepticistic babbling.
It's EXACTLY the same to deny any merit of scientific research in making judgments about the laws of nature and the universe and that's a position that, again, gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of joining a discussion about anything absolutely pointless.
"2deep4u" is not a deep philosophical answer, it's just a ridiculous response of intellectual lazyness.
So, try to at least say something useful or don't say anything at all because it's ultimately presumptuous to expect others to read your stuff when you have nothing to say at all.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about being unable to observe behavior, only intent. You admit yourself you can at best infer intent from behavior. You can make a judgment of character, but it will never be objective.
Jane is selfish. Why? Long story short: She saw Clementine as her sister, and she wants to make it up for herself. long story: If you're being nice to Jane after the shoot-out she will say something like: "You're 90% of the reason that I came back."
I'm sure that Jane wished she never had abandonded her sister, and because of Clementine's age she wants to make it up for herself by doing whatever she can for Clementine. What Jane did to Kenny was crazy. When Jane walked in without the baby I thought she used the baby as bait or something, but when she said: "Whatever happends next, don't get in the middle of this." I knew that the baby was still alive by then, and I knew that she was trying to get Kenny out of his shell to show Clementine. But I'm not going to play a sick game like that just to prove that Kenny will snap if something would've happend to his last hope in his life. Well his second-last hope. his last hope is/was Clementine. I've let Kenny killed Jane. and after that I shot Kenny. Better off without them. I liked Kenny though, before his wife and son got killed... and Jane's advice to Clementine helped a lot. But Jane's insane.
Caring for Clementine is a selfish guilt , really , Seriously.She didn't do anything wrong in the past.
Anyway By that messed up logic Kenny only care for Clem out of selfishness because he lost his son and he sees Clem as a replacement for the son he loved.
There is one thing you don't seem to consider: Jane came back not out of the good of her heart, but because she needed to. She couldn't go o… moren alone anymore, and Clem was like a second chance for her after dumping her own sister.
In the ending where you shoot Kenny but don't forgive Jane, Clem walks off and Jane first shouts out "I did this for you", but then follows up with "I can't do this alone... okay? Is that what you want to hear?". For me, this is a moment of honesty and proves my hunch about Jane. Her guilt for what she's done in the past caught up with her and after hanging with the group for a bit, she couldn't take being alone anymore. - ironically, her caring about Clem, is not out of selflessness, but out of selfish guilt.
Flog has agreed with you on the "not knowing for sure" because it's trivial to state that. That's why he said explicitly to look at evidence… more in their behavior to make any useful rational judgment about their characters because that's the only thing you can do. After that you kept on babbling about that "not knowing for sure" and that you can't make any judgment on a rational basis because non-sensical pseudo-skepticistic babbling.
It's EXACTLY the same to deny any merit of scientific research in making judgments about the laws of nature and the universe and that's a position that, again, gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of joining a discussion about anything absolutely pointless.
"2deep4u" is not a deep philosophical answer, it's just a ridiculous response of intellectual lazyness.
So, try to at least say something useful or don't say anything at all because it's ultimately presumptuous to expect others to read your stuff when you have nothing to say at all.
Context is important.
Kenny is an argumentative person, and tends to go overboard. Remember the train? When had that outburst with Lee, t… moreelling him that he wasn't helping anyone, and that his relationship with Clem was a sham? Remember when Ben had to shout back to Kenny and explain himself rather than retort back aggressively in order for Kenny to see things from another perspective?
What about Jane? What explains her outburst to Kenny? What does she get out from getting Kenny more and more over the edge by bringing up his battered face, that nobody will ever love him, and everyone will die around him because he is a "bomb waiting to go off". What's Kenny's answer to all this? When she says that Sarita knew it, and that Clem knows it? "I told you not to talk about my family!"
Still, when they pulled over due to the car wrecks, the two seemed to calm down. Jane was even going to apologize, I think.
You know, for the past 24 hours you've been bitching constantly, insulting Kenny fans about how dumb they are. You've reached the point of maximum hypocrisy.
I'm not a Kenny fan or Jane fan. Do you not understand that Kenny and Clem got along and Jane wanted Clem to kill him because she's crazy too and wants Clem for herself?
Umm buddy did you read this thread heck , did you read my comment , why are writing this meaningless point.
Kenny fans are just like him can't get pas their fucking skulls.
I'm plenty happy with a contrarian favorable view of Jane, but:
1) That's true, though she says she came back largely for Clementine, and I think she has an unhealthy wanting to replace her sister with Clementine.
2) I thought that was Kenny or Mike; I guess I'd have to look again, but if you're right, point there.
3) She wasn't there. We don't know if Bonnie and Mike approached her. She wasn't trusted by the group, so they may very well have not (I didn't call for Kenny and Jane during that scene so it may be there)
4) Not selfish. Crazy and/or stupid. If anything it's self sacrifice - the whole 'don't interfere' alludes that she knows who extreme it would get.
5) She didn't want Clementine to interfere because she wanted to prove a point.
Kenny is far from flawed; but Jane is no good either. By the end, I was under the impression they were all monsters (that said I stayed with Kenny, if not simply out of loyalty).
You know, for the past 24 hours you've been bitching constantly, insulting Kenny fans about how dumb they are. You've reached the point of maximum hypocrisy.
I don't get where are you coming from.But the outburst of Jane came from his outburst and the insult he gave her , she is retorting back at him to let him cool down.And she was honest everyone was scared of him even Sarita.Remember when seh said that isn't the man she knows
Context is important.
Kenny is an argumentative person, and tends to go overboard. Remember the train? When had that outburst with Lee, t… moreelling him that he wasn't helping anyone, and that his relationship with Clem was a sham? Remember when Ben had to shout back to Kenny and explain himself rather than retort back aggressively in order for Kenny to see things from another perspective?
What about Jane? What explains her outburst to Kenny? What does she get out from getting Kenny more and more over the edge by bringing up his battered face, that nobody will ever love him, and everyone will die around him because he is a "bomb waiting to go off". What's Kenny's answer to all this? When she says that Sarita knew it, and that Clem knows it? "I told you not to talk about my family!"
Still, when they pulled over due to the car wrecks, the two seemed to calm down. Jane was even going to apologize, I think.
Some (a lot?) people judge by intention, not by action. They largely ignore what you actually did, no matter if good or bad, but just judge you by your intent.
If you do something good, out of "wrong" intention? Too bad, you're still evil.
If you do something bad, out of "good" intention? Well, great, you shall be forgiven.
My personal hypothesis why that is? Christianity....it deeply fucks with people's natural moral system. It turns it upside down and puts more weight on (supposed) intention than on the action itself. It also went into lot of judicial systems (because of their historical relationship to religions) to give people lower punishment when they have "right" intentions or "regret" of their actions. Doesn't change a bit about what happened though. That's why you also see some people talking of "redemption" of characters, when they do something good and think that this will compensate for all the shit they have done before (Kenny in the endings e.g.).
But she needed to because of the goodness in her heart. She felt she needed to protect Clem. What's horrible about that?
I don't doubt th… moreat it's partly because she didn't want to be alone, but still, she shows she cares about Clem regardless.
Even if you think for some reason every single nice thing she did to clem was just because mustache twirly 'MWAHAHAHA I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE', the fact is that she did desire to protect clem, and that simply isn't selfishness.
And if she's just a horrible evil self-centered person, if her selfishness led to her selflessness in the end, what's wrong with that anyway?
Comments
She did only to show us what Kenny was!!
In fact, if Kenny didn't attack her, she would have said that....
And then, Aj was in a car....
Will you stop we made coutless of threads andposts and comments.
She kept AJ in a warm car.
And second she didn't manipulate Clem into killing ,remember what she said stay out of this , and people that are manipulated don't think straight and are weak of will and are guilable I don't think Clementine is like that.Clementine just CHOSE TO KILL KENNY FOR THE SAFETY OF HER SELFLESS FRIEND
Your comment is invalid.
No.
She tells us she only returned because of Clem. She feels very awkward about Luke and doesn't want to speak to him at the camp.
The fight in the car just happens. It's not just because of Jane. Kenny hates her guts too.
You seem like one of those crazy people who thinks all her motivations are about sex or something.
Regardless, having an argument with Kenny and trying to convince Clem to leave him is not selfish. She wants Clem to survive because, as we know, she cares about her. That's selfless.
It's also interesting how you ignored all my points apart from one, and used that to pretend your entire argument is valid.
Jane proves she cares about Clem.
Yeah....
People can say "Fuck Jane"... Well, I say "Fuck Kenny"...!!
OH Clementine must be bad ass old experience agent and have experience in the army for Jane to have her by herself.
Second she told Clem that she came back for her.
Blind Person that hate Jane is blind.
I don't care who started it. You don't tell a man his wife, or girlfriend, was scared of him and wanted to get away from him less than three days after he lost her in a horde of undead ghouls.
That part ain't right!
I thought we were talking about Jane and not Jane vs. Kenny? If there's any confusion let me reiterate: it's impossible to make objective judgements of character. That goes for both Kenny and Jane and everyone else, which is why you have to make up your mind yourself and decide what you think is right.
And you don't tell to a young woman that no-one cares about her, no-one loves her ,and she nothing just a selfish person that loves herself.
Sigh
This.
Fuck fucking Kenny is better
That's just nonsensical babbling about "not knowing for sure". It's pseudo-skepticism applied to human behavior.
To deny that you can objectively observe behavior is on par with denying that there is an objective material world that can be observed. If you take yourself seriously, you would have to take the stance of a solipsist that thinks everything he perceives is just a product of his mind and thus nothing is real.
Gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of discussing with people (= your own imaginations) outright insane.
So, the least common ground you need to accept is that there are objectively existing people that have an observable behavior which can be used to infer what's going on "inside" them. Else you could as well talk to any brick wall.
There is one thing you don't seem to consider: Jane came back not out of the good of her heart, but because she needed to. She couldn't go on alone anymore, and Clem was like a second chance for her after dumping her own sister.
In the ending where you shoot Kenny but don't forgive Jane, Clem walks off and Jane first shouts out "I did this for you", but then follows up with "I can't do this alone... okay? Is that what you want to hear?". For me, this is a moment of honesty and proves my hunch about Jane. Her guilt for what she's done in the past caught up with her and after hanging with the group for a bit, she couldn't take being alone anymore. - ironically, her caring about Clem, is not out of selflessness, but out of selfish guilt.
If she deems them worthy. That's also a trait of my personality.
I meant that I don't trust anyone much like her, But for me it's because I'm paranoid.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about being unable to observe behavior, only intent. You admit yourself you can at best infer intent from behavior. You can make a judgment of character, but it will never be objective.
Jane didn't keep AJ in a warm car. The car had to of been freezing inside and the baby was barely wrapped up. Clem and Kenny had to constantly hold the baby close to their bodies in order to keep it warm. Also, Clem and Kenny got along well, so what Jane did was put herself in danger so Clem could kill Kenny just so she could only be with her. She is manipulative and still selfish.
I'm not gonna be one of people who have to pick who was right or wrong.
I simply got the Kenny ending because I couldn't bring myself to kill either of them, so the timer ran out on me. Clem just sat there frozen,staring at them both.
I liked Jane a lot, and I liked Kenny a lot.
Kenny said essentially the same to Jane before she said that, as poplee just pointed out.
I understand what you meant, I just wanted to say that this is not necessarily a parallel between you and her. She is reluctant and distrustful towards others, yes, but for a reason, not because of paranoia. Paranoia always implies a form of irrational fear and delusion about other people wanting to hurt you, although you have no objective reason to assume that. Jane shows no signs of such a delusion. It's more than justified to be more careful than careless in the world of Walking Dead.
FuckKenny
I agree. However, It's not a delusion, It's true that people close to you can be used against you.
Ok maybe i'm gonna be annoying now.. but how on Earth would an abandoned car be warm in a snowstorm? You can see the frost inside
I didn't need Jane to hide the baby :P
While I don't particularly think Jane is selfish (though I do actually get why Kenny would have that impression since she is very standoff-ish and most of the time prioritizes her own safety above those of others ... plus he was definitely losing it), I disagree that her not going with Arvo and Mike (and possible Bonnie proves this, since we don't see any evidence that she knew a damn thing about it. I don't get the impression that either of those would have invited her along.
Also, she definitely did put AJ at risk by leaving him in the car. We've seen walkers break into cars before though and they are attracted to sounds, such as a baby crying. Plus, who knows who else could have been out there.
In the end, neither Kenny or Jane were entirely right or entirely wrong in their actions. Which is why it's such a difficult choice to make and why knowing the whole truth about Jane's manipulation makes it even harder (especially if you're the type of player who, like me, doesn't tend to rewind in order to make a different choice).
But she needed to because of the goodness in her heart. She felt she needed to protect Clem. What's horrible about that?
I don't doubt that it's partly because she didn't want to be alone, but still, she shows she cares about Clem regardless.
Even if you think for some reason every single nice thing she did to clem was just because mustache twirly 'MWAHAHAHA I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE', the fact is that she did desire to protect clem, and that simply isn't selfishness.
And if she's just a horrible evil self-centered person, if her selfishness led to her selflessness in the end, what's wrong with that anyway?
Umm buddy did you read this thread heck , did you read my comment , why are writing this meaningless point.
Kenny fans are just like him can't get pas their fucking skulls.
Context is important.
Kenny is an argumentative person, and tends to go overboard. Remember the train? When had that outburst with Lee, telling him that he wasn't helping anyone, and that his relationship with Clem was a sham? Remember when Ben had to shout back to Kenny and explain himself rather than retort back aggressively in order for Kenny to see things from another perspective?
What about Jane? What explains her outburst to Kenny? What does she get out from getting Kenny more and more over the edge by bringing up his battered face, that nobody will ever love him, and everyone will die around him because he is a "bomb waiting to go off". What's Kenny's answer to all this? When she says that Sarita knew it, and that Clem knows it? "I told you not to talk about my family!"
Still, when they pulled over due to the car wrecks, the two seemed to calm down. Jane was even going to apologize, I think.
Flog has agreed with you on the "not knowing for sure" because it's trivial to state that. That's why he said explicitly to look at evidence in their behavior to make any useful rational judgment about their characters because that's the only thing you can do. After that you kept on babbling about that "not knowing for sure" and that you can't make any judgment on a rational basis because non-sensical pseudo-skepticistic babbling.
It's EXACTLY the same to deny any merit of scientific research in making judgments about the laws of nature and the universe and that's a position that, again, gets you nowhere and makes your own behavior of joining a discussion about anything absolutely pointless.
"2deep4u" is not a deep philosophical answer, it's just a ridiculous response of intellectual lazyness.
So, try to at least say something useful or don't say anything at all because it's ultimately presumptuous to expect others to read your stuff when you have nothing to say at all.
Jane is selfish. Why? Long story short: She saw Clementine as her sister, and she wants to make it up for herself. long story: If you're being nice to Jane after the shoot-out she will say something like: "You're 90% of the reason that I came back."
I'm sure that Jane wished she never had abandonded her sister, and because of Clementine's age she wants to make it up for herself by doing whatever she can for Clementine. What Jane did to Kenny was crazy. When Jane walked in without the baby I thought she used the baby as bait or something, but when she said: "Whatever happends next, don't get in the middle of this." I knew that the baby was still alive by then, and I knew that she was trying to get Kenny out of his shell to show Clementine. But I'm not going to play a sick game like that just to prove that Kenny will snap if something would've happend to his last hope in his life. Well his second-last hope. his last hope is/was Clementine. I've let Kenny killed Jane. and after that I shot Kenny. Better off without them. I liked Kenny though, before his wife and son got killed... and Jane's advice to Clementine helped a lot. But Jane's insane.
Now:
Season 3 will be ClemInTime!
Caring for Clementine is a selfish guilt , really , Seriously.She didn't do anything wrong in the past.
Anyway By that messed up logic Kenny only care for Clem out of selfishness because he lost his son and he sees Clem as a replacement for the son he loved.
Now that I think about it, you are right. Kenny was so focused on beating the crap out of Arvo that he didn't even went for Clem, Jane did.
Right, let me know when you've found a way to empirically prove how another person feels.
Yes, she wanted to apologize, because it was an emotional outburst of her. That doesn't sound like manipulative action, don't you think?
You know, for the past 24 hours you've been bitching constantly, insulting Kenny fans about how dumb they are. You've reached the point of maximum hypocrisy.
I'm not a Kenny fan or Jane fan. Do you not understand that Kenny and Clem got along and Jane wanted Clem to kill him because she's crazy too and wants Clem for herself?
I'm plenty happy with a contrarian favorable view of Jane, but:
1) That's true, though she says she came back largely for Clementine, and I think she has an unhealthy wanting to replace her sister with Clementine.
2) I thought that was Kenny or Mike; I guess I'd have to look again, but if you're right, point there.
3) She wasn't there. We don't know if Bonnie and Mike approached her. She wasn't trusted by the group, so they may very well have not (I didn't call for Kenny and Jane during that scene so it may be there)
4) Not selfish. Crazy and/or stupid. If anything it's self sacrifice - the whole 'don't interfere' alludes that she knows who extreme it would get.
5) She didn't want Clementine to interfere because she wanted to prove a point.
Kenny is far from flawed; but Jane is no good either. By the end, I was under the impression they were all monsters (that said I stayed with Kenny, if not simply out of loyalty).
That has happened on both sides: Kenny fans insulting Jane's and Jane fans insulting Kenny's.
I don't get where are you coming from.But the outburst of Jane came from his outburst and the insult he gave her , she is retorting back at him to let him cool down.And she was honest everyone was scared of him even Sarita.Remember when seh said that isn't the man she knows
She was gonna apologize .
One attempt at explanation:
Some (a lot?) people judge by intention, not by action. They largely ignore what you actually did, no matter if good or bad, but just judge you by your intent.
If you do something good, out of "wrong" intention? Too bad, you're still evil.
If you do something bad, out of "good" intention? Well, great, you shall be forgiven.
My personal hypothesis why that is? Christianity....it deeply fucks with people's natural moral system. It turns it upside down and puts more weight on (supposed) intention than on the action itself. It also went into lot of judicial systems (because of their historical relationship to religions) to give people lower punishment when they have "right" intentions or "regret" of their actions. Doesn't change a bit about what happened though. That's why you also see some people talking of "redemption" of characters, when they do something good and think that this will compensate for all the shit they have done before (Kenny in the endings e.g.).
Just my 2 cent about that...
I suppose a proper civil discussion is too much to hope for.