This forum has really become divided with Kenny 'supporters' and Jane 'supporters' I'm not joining any particular club so... Team Luke anyone?;)
Just to mix things up a little?;-P
I only hate his character because telltale have shown so much favouritism towards him and his fans, and that makes me cringe all the damn time.
I like him in season 1.
But that's impossible for me, when every time I look at him I see fanservice.
When every time I see him murdering someone I can picture some immature kenny fan clapping and saying 'YEAH, STAB HER YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! KENNY IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
And telltale saying 'HE IS GOD ISN'T HE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
I just can't bear it. Thankfully by season 3 will not have one tiny whiff of Kenny in it.
But like I said, it isn't Kenny's fault. He lost some fans when he yelled at Clem in EP4, and also, it isn't Kenny's fault we got some idiot cheering for him for the wrong reasons.
But that's impossible for me, when every time I look at him I see fanservice.
When every time I see him murdering someone I can picture s… moreome immature kenny fan clapping and saying 'YEAH, STAB HER YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! KENNY IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
And telltale saying 'HE IS GOD ISN'T HE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
I just can't bear it. Thankfully by season 3 will not have one tiny whiff of Kenny in it.
I'm plenty happy with a contrarian favorable view of Jane, but:
1) That's true, though she says she came back largely for Clementine, and… more I think she has an unhealthy wanting to replace her sister with Clementine.
2) I thought that was Kenny or Mike; I guess I'd have to look again, but if you're right, point there.
3) She wasn't there. We don't know if Bonnie and Mike approached her. She wasn't trusted by the group, so they may very well have not (I didn't call for Kenny and Jane during that scene so it may be there)
4) Not selfish. Crazy and/or stupid. If anything it's self sacrifice - the whole 'don't interfere' alludes that she knows who extreme it would get.
5) She didn't want Clementine to interfere because she wanted to prove a point.
Kenny is far from flawed; but Jane is no good either. By the end, I was under the impression they were all monsters (that said I stayed with Kenny, if not simply out of loyalty).
This forum has really become divided with Kenny 'supporters' and Jane 'supporters' I'm not joining any particular club so... Team Luke anyone?;)
Just to mix things up a little?;-P
I understand that your sassy but, it's not my fault Luke is so much better than Nick.. #applycoldwatertoburnedarea
I'm kidding I respect your opinion too, if you like Nick more then so be it!:P
1) Clementine isn't a replacement for Duck - AJ is. (Btw, I wasn't posting to defend Kenny, just to say Jane isn't great either).
2) Yep, you're right.
3) Maybe, we don't know, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still, wouldn't necessarily give that as a positive...
4) Yeah, she didn't want Clementine to get hurt, she wanted Kenny to be abandoned, and she did so in a very underhanded way.
5) I think it was more about her agenda against Kenny than anything.
I'm not saying this to defend Kenny, but to say I think they're both monsters. Though if you stick it out with Kenny, it does seem better... Because yeah... I like sunsets and stuff ㅠ____ㅠ IS THAT SO WRONG!
1) Well, just as much as you may hate on Kenny for looking at clem like a replacement for duck. That's a bit unfair.
2) No, it was Jane. … moreKenny was too busy beating arvo.
3) After you're shot, Bonnie, Mike and Arvo still leave. Jane would have known about it when they left, and could have gone with them. But she stuck around for Clementine.
4) Yeah, she knew it might get extreme, and she didn'#t want Clem to be hurt.
5) A point about how Clem could survive better, which is still selflessness.
And you can be just as loyal to Jane as to Kenny. Staying with someone just purely because the game has forced you to be with them for 9 episodes is exactly what telltale want you to do though I guess, going by the sunshine and happiness walk-into-sunset ending, so maybe that's not your problem.
I understand that your sassy but, it's not my fault Luke is so much better than Nick.. #applycoldwatertoburnedarea
I'm kidding I respect your opinion too, if you like Nick more then so be it!:P
To be able to clarify, since I'm coming from a Christian perspective, Christianity isn't about just verbally communicating your sorriness and that's it, it's also about possessing a repentant heart for your wrongdoings, so to use it as a means of comparison to your attempt of explaining the scenario being discussed here is pointless (no offense intended). I'm not trying to go back and forth, engaging in a fruitless debate of your or my stance on Christianity, but I don't want to sit back and watch false pretenses shed a negative light on my "religion"; and hopefully that's something that you can understand.
endoftimes makes a valid point. I firmly believe that selfishness isn't a fake fault, but rather a real one, one of which shouldn't be thrown around lightly to each and every person without a reasonable explanation behind the surface. Observing the intention of one's actions is something that should be examined to receive further clarity, because a lack thereof of observation of intentions of one's actions, heightens the chances of your mind being monopolized.
I securely regard that both Kenny and Jane depicted signs of selfishness throughout their tenures with us. Ken signified selfishness when he was so determined to break free from captivity in the beginning of Episode 3: In Harm's Way in the back of the vehicle, placing everybody in it at a possible risk of endangerment for the sake of his desire of trying to escape at an inopportune time due to his not thought out, rash actions; Jane asserted selfishness when she was allowing her lie about the fate of Alvin, Jr. to escalate to a degree in Episode 5: No Going Back, to where her and Ken were fighting each other to the death, as cliché as that may sound, for her to prove a point, rather than being upfront and honest after he had already proved it, in it that he lashes out at people without acquiring the much needed information to come to a fair conclusion before rash actions.
The truth of the matter is that both Ken and Jane possess flaws, even outside of the forms of selfishness that they've displayed on numerous accounts, which is why the constant bickering back and forth between Ken fans and Jane fans is ridiculous. Ken and Jane both possess flaws because of their fallibility that comes with being a human being, therefore meaning that they're prone to err, susceptible to it due to their fallen natures; so placing either one of them on a pedestal as if they can't do any wrong is the epitome of idiocy, which I witness some fans of theirs do.
P. S.Astovidatu, but rather is indirectly a general comment to this thread.
Yes, I do, because you can show that there are vast differences in the judgment of people's behavior among different cultures and that relig… moreions play a certain role in that. I won't deny that judging alone by actions can lead to problems, but so can judging alone by intentions (which you can't entirely be sure of anyway). It's just that actions are objectively observable and can be taken for measurement, intentions have to be infered or believed (if people state them) and that's a way greater uncertainty.
So actions should have the priority over anything, especially as that's the only way you can verify (if at all) people's (supposed) intentions, if you are not a fan of blind faith (which I am not obviously).
To me, a person that acts "good" always ranks higher than a person who acts "bad", no matter how good or bad their (supposed) intentions are. You can't absolutely know them anyway and people are prone to be emotionally fucked up mor… [view original content]
But like I said, it isn't Kenny's fault. He lost some fans when he yelled at Clem in EP4, and also, it isn't Kenny's fault we got some idiot cheering for him for the wrong reasons.
Your own personal views on "your" religion may be granted, but they don't apply to the vast majority of Christians. Promise of salvation (through means of penitance) is a central principle of Christianity and it's no coincidence that this particular religion appeals to a certain kind of hypocritical assholes that use it to poop out of every responsibility for their actions (and I'm not talking about specific priests only...). It may not be the right place to discuss this stuff thoroughly, that I agree, but to claim that these are "false pretenses" is ridiculous as it's nothing you can equally find in other religions.
You may call it an inherent design flaw by the founders of "your" religion, no problem with that, but please don't pretend it weren't real.
With the rest of your post I agree, except that I have a different view on the kind and gravity of Kenny's and Jane's flaws. It's too simple to just equal both out in that matter because all flaws don't have the same consequences.
To be able to clarify, since I'm coming from a Christian perspective, Christianity isn't about just verbally communicating your sorriness an… mored that's it, it's also about possessing a repentant heart for your wrongdoings, so to use it as a means of comparison to your attempt of explaining the scenario being discussed here is pointless (no offense intended). I'm not trying to go back and forth, engaging in a fruitless debate of your or my stance on Christianity, but I don't want to sit back and watch false pretenses shed a negative light on my "religion"; and hopefully that's something that you can understand.
endoftimes makes a valid point. I firmly believe that selfishness isn't a fake fault, but rather a real one, one of which shouldn't be thrown around lightly to each and every person without a reasonable explanation behind the surface. Observing the intention of one's actions is something that should be examined to receive further clarit… [view original content]
Jane's willingness to use a newborn child as a tool to set Kenny off in front of Clem was awfully low. Kenny might have been a time bomb, but she was more like a knife in the back.
Here's why I think she's wrong. She's a manipulator. She manipulated Kenny, a broken down family man who lost Sarita no more than three days… more ago, taunting him and tormenting him while he was driving a truck in the snow. You don't want him to go ape-shit while driving. That's just stoopid.
I don't care who started it. You don't tell a man his wife, or girlfriend, was scared of him and wanted to get away from him less than three days after he lost her in a horde of undead ghouls.
That part ain't right!
" She didn't do anything wrong in the past. " - Except leave her sister to die.
And yes by my "messed up" logic as you call it, it's true… more. Kenny also cares for Clem and MOSTLY for the baby out of the need to fill the void. But, Kenny has shown to risk his neck for other people too, which negates selfishness.
It's not about hate, it's about disgust over those that are patting Kenny on the back after he letting him become the one thing he hates the most - a monster.
She never tells Clementine that she's a replacement and she doesn't try and make Clementine into her sister. She teaches Clementine and is happy when Clementine makes independent decisions on her own as she wants Clementine to survive.
I'm plenty happy with a contrarian favorable view of Jane, but:
1) That's true, though she says she came back largely for Clementine, and… more I think she has an unhealthy wanting to replace her sister with Clementine.
2) I thought that was Kenny or Mike; I guess I'd have to look again, but if you're right, point there.
3) She wasn't there. We don't know if Bonnie and Mike approached her. She wasn't trusted by the group, so they may very well have not (I didn't call for Kenny and Jane during that scene so it may be there)
4) Not selfish. Crazy and/or stupid. If anything it's self sacrifice - the whole 'don't interfere' alludes that she knows who extreme it would get.
5) She didn't want Clementine to interfere because she wanted to prove a point.
Kenny is far from flawed; but Jane is no good either. By the end, I was under the impression they were all monsters (that said I stayed with Kenny, if not simply out of loyalty).
well she could have just told him "the baby is alive in that car" or something and he WOULD have Stopped (And efore you type anything keep in mind that clem can actually stop him from beating arvo by telling him to stop)
She's knows that they wanted to leave and they're scared of Kenny, she knew it was coming and chose to stay anyway.
She didn't want Kenny to die and she didn't want to die either. She wanted to show Clementine that Kenny was a ticking time bomb and that be the end of it, she didn't realize how far gone Kenny was that he surpassed her expectations in regards to his anger issues and insanity. And no, Kenny would NEVER have believed her if she suddenly said the baby was okay.
Not did, DOES. Get it right, please. She also isn't as crazy as Kenny and she put Clementine first. Where was Kenny when Clementine needed her? Beating up Arvo. Where was Jane? Saving Clementine.
Kenny does manipulate Clementine far more than Jane ever did as he WILL make you feel like **** and guilt trip you to heck and back if you aren't doing what he says or you even think of agreeing with Luke over him.
She returns to the group when she hears gunfire in order to protect them because she feels guilty for leaving. That's not selfish.
S… morehe was the one who stole from the Russians in the first place, she was kind of responsible.
She saves Clem from the ice if she falls in, carried her and runs to the house as quickly as possible with her in her arms. That's not selfish.
Can't disagree here.
She stays behind with Clem when Bonnie, Mike and Arvo try to leave. That's not selifsh.
I was under the impression they were trying to sneak off with the car, so she might have been sleeping. I am pretty sure if Jane saw what was happening she probably would have killed them, for pointing a gun at Clementine, and trying to run off with the supplies.
She tries to convince clem that Kenny will burst at her if she actually accidentally loses the baby, in order to try to protect Clem. That's not selfish.
Your right … [view original content]
What she did didn't deserve her being murdered and Kenny knew it, hence why he says you made the right decision to save Jane.
And if you don't forgive her over an accident, as she never intended it to go that far, you're setting Clementine up for high chances of death. Clementine is a kid and now she has a baby. What if she didn't find that group after the Dog Bite? She would be alone and dead. Now replay that scenario but with a baby that will scream and cry when it's hungry or hurt.
Again she might have had the best of intentions but what she did in the end was wrong. She manipulated both Kenny and Clementine by lying ab… moreout the Baby. She led Kenny into that state just so she could make a goddamn point and when it came down to it she expected Clementine to forgive her after making her shoot Kenny all so her point was made. No. Fuck.That!
I'm grateful for what she did for Clementine but don't expect me to act like I owe her anything after what she made me do, she should be happy I let her live after finding out. But I was so sick of everyone so I just left her there alone, she can do what she wants but she aint coming with me.
Kenny started all the confrontations between them with him being a completely monster towards her. Jane even tells you, when she returns, about Kenny and agrees that only you can reach/talk to him. She didn't set out to mess with Kenny, she made new plans when the group fell apart BECAUSE of Kenny and she wasn't going to let Clementine become a victim of Kenny's anger management issues.
HELL NO! Jane PROVOKED Kenny at the end... putting the baby in the car and making him to do stuff that could have been PREVENTED...
This part override all your statements.
Comments
I'll join Team Luke!
Yay! Let's make t-shirts
forget team Kenny or team Jane team Luke has t-shirts;) beat that guys!:P
You shouldn't hate Kenny then, you should hate the writers because favored him more, that ain't Kenny's fault.
But that's impossible for me, when every time I look at him I see fanservice.
When every time I see him murdering someone I can picture some immature kenny fan clapping and saying 'YEAH, STAB HER YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!! KENNY IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
And telltale saying 'HE IS GOD ISN'T HE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
I just can't bear it. Thankfully by season 3 will not have one tiny whiff of Kenny in it.
But like I said, it isn't Kenny's fault. He lost some fans when he yelled at Clem in EP4, and also, it isn't Kenny's fault we got some idiot cheering for him for the wrong reasons.
Only reason I would stay with Kenny would be to get to Wellington, which is imo, the ending that's got the most closure.
No. Team Nick. NICK WAS THE BEST CHARACTER D':
i think kenny will be the main character in season 3.
Haha okay so there is team Kenny team Jane team Luke and team Nick, team Luke is the best choice just saying;)
All the points you mentioned she does because she wants Clem on her side, so your whole argument is invalid.
I respect your opinion. Your incorrect opinion. sassy finger snap
THANK YOU MAN! THANK U FOR SAYING IT!!
I understand that your sassy but, it's not my fault Luke is so much better than Nick.. #applycoldwatertoburnedarea
I'm kidding I respect your opinion too, if you like Nick more then so be it!:P
1) Clementine isn't a replacement for Duck - AJ is. (Btw, I wasn't posting to defend Kenny, just to say Jane isn't great either).
2) Yep, you're right.
3) Maybe, we don't know, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still, wouldn't necessarily give that as a positive...
4) Yeah, she didn't want Clementine to get hurt, she wanted Kenny to be abandoned, and she did so in a very underhanded way.
5) I think it was more about her agenda against Kenny than anything.
I'm not saying this to defend Kenny, but to say I think they're both monsters. Though if you stick it out with Kenny, it does seem better... Because yeah... I like sunsets and stuff ㅠ____ㅠ IS THAT SO WRONG!
Kenny did everything he did because he wanted Clem on his side. That doesn't make him selfish, does it?
Let's agree to disagree! :P
Hehe, of course! I do like Nick not as much as Luke, but you like Nick more than Luke and I respect and understand that
To be able to clarify, since I'm coming from a Christian perspective, Christianity isn't about just verbally communicating your sorriness and that's it, it's also about possessing a repentant heart for your wrongdoings, so to use it as a means of comparison to your attempt of explaining the scenario being discussed here is pointless (no offense intended). I'm not trying to go back and forth, engaging in a fruitless debate of your or my stance on Christianity, but I don't want to sit back and watch false pretenses shed a negative light on my "religion"; and hopefully that's something that you can understand.
endoftimes makes a valid point. I firmly believe that selfishness isn't a fake fault, but rather a real one, one of which shouldn't be thrown around lightly to each and every person without a reasonable explanation behind the surface. Observing the intention of one's actions is something that should be examined to receive further clarity, because a lack thereof of observation of intentions of one's actions, heightens the chances of your mind being monopolized.
I securely regard that both Kenny and Jane depicted signs of selfishness throughout their tenures with us. Ken signified selfishness when he was so determined to break free from captivity in the beginning of Episode 3: In Harm's Way in the back of the vehicle, placing everybody in it at a possible risk of endangerment for the sake of his desire of trying to escape at an inopportune time due to his not thought out, rash actions; Jane asserted selfishness when she was allowing her lie about the fate of Alvin, Jr. to escalate to a degree in Episode 5: No Going Back, to where her and Ken were fighting each other to the death, as cliché as that may sound, for her to prove a point, rather than being upfront and honest after he had already proved it, in it that he lashes out at people without acquiring the much needed information to come to a fair conclusion before rash actions.
The truth of the matter is that both Ken and Jane possess flaws, even outside of the forms of selfishness that they've displayed on numerous accounts, which is why the constant bickering back and forth between Ken fans and Jane fans is ridiculous. Ken and Jane both possess flaws because of their fallibility that comes with being a human being, therefore meaning that they're prone to err, susceptible to it due to their fallen natures; so placing either one of them on a pedestal as if they can't do any wrong is the epitome of idiocy, which I witness some fans of theirs do.
P. S.Astovidatu, but rather is indirectly a general comment to this thread.
I know, but subconsciously I can't deal with it.
It's not the only reason I don't like him in season 2 though.
Well, he can't be a god anymore since he became determent.
Yes! I agree with you 100%, and I love her flaws it makes her human. If she was just badass like Molly she'd feel hollow.
We should holler at jane huh.
Your own personal views on "your" religion may be granted, but they don't apply to the vast majority of Christians. Promise of salvation (through means of penitance) is a central principle of Christianity and it's no coincidence that this particular religion appeals to a certain kind of hypocritical assholes that use it to poop out of every responsibility for their actions (and I'm not talking about specific priests only...). It may not be the right place to discuss this stuff thoroughly, that I agree, but to claim that these are "false pretenses" is ridiculous as it's nothing you can equally find in other religions.
You may call it an inherent design flaw by the founders of "your" religion, no problem with that, but please don't pretend it weren't real.
With the rest of your post I agree, except that I have a different view on the kind and gravity of Kenny's and Jane's flaws. It's too simple to just equal both out in that matter because all flaws don't have the same consequences.
@risbolla
You must be really have trouble reading people.
"Hey that guy has a mean look and has his knife out and it's pointed at me and now he's headed my way... What are his intentions? We can never know!"
Jane's willingness to use a newborn child as a tool to set Kenny off in front of Clem was awfully low. Kenny might have been a time bomb, but she was more like a knife in the back.
Trust me, im your friend.
Kenny manipulates Lee and Clementine with his aggressive tone/actions and he guilt trips you to heck and back if you aren't doing everything he likes.
They were scared of him, they make it a point that they're scared at what Kenny has become.
Nope. :P Sorry, pal.
She never intended for her sister to die, she thought her sister would want to live after some "Tough love".
There's a REASON she's so traumatized and has trust issues. She blames herself for her sisters death.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
It's not about hate, it's about disgust over those that are patting Kenny on the back after he letting him become the one thing he hates the most - a monster.
She never tells Clementine that she's a replacement and she doesn't try and make Clementine into her sister. She teaches Clementine and is happy when Clementine makes independent decisions on her own as she wants Clementine to survive.
well she could have just told him "the baby is alive in that car" or something and he WOULD have Stopped (And efore you type anything keep in mind that clem can actually stop him from beating arvo by telling him to stop)
they hang out by the lake
How come you guys are so reasonable compared to the..................... others
Clementine can steal from the Russians.
She's knows that they wanted to leave and they're scared of Kenny, she knew it was coming and chose to stay anyway.
She didn't want Kenny to die and she didn't want to die either. She wanted to show Clementine that Kenny was a ticking time bomb and that be the end of it, she didn't realize how far gone Kenny was that he surpassed her expectations in regards to his anger issues and insanity. And no, Kenny would NEVER have believed her if she suddenly said the baby was okay.
Not did, DOES. Get it right, please. She also isn't as crazy as Kenny and she put Clementine first. Where was Kenny when Clementine needed her? Beating up Arvo. Where was Jane? Saving Clementine.
Kenny does manipulate Clementine far more than Jane ever did as he WILL make you feel like **** and guilt trip you to heck and back if you aren't doing what he says or you even think of agreeing with Luke over him.
What she did didn't deserve her being murdered and Kenny knew it, hence why he says you made the right decision to save Jane.
And if you don't forgive her over an accident, as she never intended it to go that far, you're setting Clementine up for high chances of death. Clementine is a kid and now she has a baby. What if she didn't find that group after the Dog Bite? She would be alone and dead. Now replay that scenario but with a baby that will scream and cry when it's hungry or hurt.
Kenny started all the confrontations between them with him being a completely monster towards her. Jane even tells you, when she returns, about Kenny and agrees that only you can reach/talk to him. She didn't set out to mess with Kenny, she made new plans when the group fell apart BECAUSE of Kenny and she wasn't going to let Clementine become a victim of Kenny's anger management issues.
You should be ashamed of yourself.