That map is unfortunately deceptive; the majority of the states there have gay marriage only because of court decisions. While that's good in that there is gay marriage, it can be misleading in terms of public opinion. Even in California (one of the most consistently liberal states), there was a public vote to ban gay marriage by amending the state constitution in 2008 and it passed. I'm guessing the ban was overturned as unconstitutional, since California is in red, but still, in a lot of states the majority (or at least the voting majority) are unfortunately against gay marriage.
In fact, I'm not sure which states (if any) have enacted gay marriage by popular vote. California didn't, New York didn't, and I don't think Massachusetts did either.
Also, since were comparing countries, gay marriage is unfathomable in Korea; I'm pretty sure there isn't even protection against discrimination based on sexual orientation in the work place. I read about a gay pride parade, but everybody was wearing masks, in part because if they came out in public they could actually lose their jobs. What's (sort of) strange, is that, at least last year, there were a ton of gay films, and its something that is in popular culture a lot more than the legal system would lead people to believe. Though I think things are a lot more favorable for transsexuals than homosexuals in Korea (with a number of transsexual celebrities of high recognition).
Just been sent this and figured I shoudl post it here instead of making a new thread.
I had no idea that marriage equality was happening … moreso quickly, last time I actually counted it was only in 10 states, and now 2/3 of americans live in states with it!
That map is unfortunately deceptive; the majority of the states there have gay marriage only because of court decisions. While that's good i… moren that there is gay marriage, it can be misleading in terms of public opinion. Even in California (one of the most consistently liberal states), there was a public vote to ban gay marriage by amending the state constitution in 2008 and it passed. I'm guessing the ban was overturned as unconstitutional, since California is in red, but still, in a lot of states the majority (or at least the voting majority) are unfortunately against gay marriage.
In fact, I'm not sure which states (if any) have enacted gay marriage by popular vote. California didn't, New York didn't, and I don't think Massachusetts did either.
Also, since were comparing countries, gay marriage is unfathomable in Korea; I'm pretty sure there isn't even protection against discrimination based on sexual orientation in the work place. I r… [view original content]
Well, as far as how homosexuals are viewed and treated is dependant on public opinion as well as law. As far as the majority being in favor, it varies from state to state, but the really good news is (other than legal equality in itself), is that it is no longer really a wedge issue. In 2000 (or 2004?) a lot of anti-gay marriage bills were added to state referenda in order to drum up Republican support - that isn't possible anymore, because if anything people would vote in favor of gay marriage, or at least not be persuaded to turn up to the polls simply to vote against it (if you didn't know, America has a depressingly low voter turnout).
Oh I know it isn't by public opinion, but I don't really care: the law allows it and it's great that homosexuals in those states have equal … morerights.
Public opinion towards it will improve when they see that society doesn't rip itself apart from it.
And the majority of americans do support gay marriage, so I'm not that concerned.
Homosexuals are far more prone to being afected by it however:
I might of agreed with you back when i was in high school, but things are different now. Its not as bad as it was some years ago. Now if your Overweight in High school. Its still a miserable torturous experience.
Homosexuals are far more prone to being afected by it however:
If you are an LGBT youth you are much, much more likely to commit suicide because of school bullying.
Homosexuals are far more prone to being afected by it however:
I might of agreed with you back when i was in high school, but things… more are different now. Its not as bad as it was some years ago. Now if your Overweight in High school. Its still a miserable torturous experience.
The thing though is that law prescribes public opinion. As in, as I said above, people have seen that the right wing was lying and there are literally no negative consequences of homosexual marriage. This will make people more accepting of it.
Also seeing happy gay couples will help with it. Me and my husband when walking in town holding hands or whatever have encountered friends who have treated us homophobically before, but they have apologised because they see that we are happy together. That happens more when the state doesn't discourage same sex partnerships.
Well, as far as how homosexuals are viewed and treated is dependant on public opinion as well as law. As far as the majority being in favor,… more it varies from state to state, but the really good news is (other than legal equality in itself), is that it is no longer really a wedge issue. In 2000 (or 2004?) a lot of anti-gay marriage bills were added to state referenda in order to drum up Republican support - that isn't possible anymore, because if anything people would vote in favor of gay marriage, or at least not be persuaded to turn up to the polls simply to vote against it (if you didn't know, America has a depressingly low voter turnout).
"overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling."
Damn, I should have known it was that easy, then I might not have had to deal with a life of flutuating weight and 4+ years of psychotherapy.
I know you're not suggesting it's easy, but lets not underplay weight troubles (I say this for personal reasons, and I don't mean to downplay bullying or the hard times many people have with peers and family when they're gay). Correct me if I'm wrong, but sexuality sets in with puberty, since I was little I grew up the fat kid, and even if I lose weight I'll always be the fat kid mentally.
No, I'm saying a fact, not an opinion.
You can't disagree with facts.
LGBT children are over twice as likely to kill themsel… moreves as non lgbt children.
Also, overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling.
There is no cure for homosexuality.
People very much do support gay people because they thinking being homosexual is as fine as being heterosexual.
In fact none of your argument actually makes sense so I'm not sure it's worth debating with you.
But what I don't understand is why you feel sorry for me. I'm married to an awesome guy, we've got kids on the way due in spring next year...why would someone feel sorry for me because of that? I'm very happy.
I never understood gay people. Take for example a gay man. He sees a beautiful woman with a great body talking to an ordirnary man and he th… moreinks how the man is hot. I feel sorry for them instead of hating them. And people don't really support gays because they think it's right. They support them because everyone else does and they just tag along.
And if this means that people will hate me for it I'm sorry. I'm sorry because of you, not me.
"overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling."
Damn, I should have known it was that easy, … morethen I might not have had to deal with a life of flutuating weight and 4+ years of psychotherapy.
I know you're not suggesting it's easy, but lets not underplay weight troubles (I say this for personal reasons, and I don't mean to downplay bullying or the hard times many people have with peers and family when they're gay). Correct me if I'm wrong, but sexuality sets in with puberty, since I was little I grew up the fat kid, and even if I lose weight I'll always be the fat kid mentally.
This is completely fucking disgusting.
Homosexuality is between two consenting adults.
Animals and children can't consent by definitio… moren.
Is this an honest comparison, or are you just trying to rile people up.
Also J-Master, a relationship with someone in his 20 year old is NOT pedophillia.
The idea that humans cannot have sexual relations with an animal because the animal cannot give consent is laughable. Did you ask an animal … morefor consent before you killed it and ate it? Did you ask an animal for consent before you locked it up in a cage for your own amusement? Did you ask an animal for consent before you killed it and turned it into your comfortable fur coat?
Don't say you need to kill animals for a healthy diet. PETA has proven time and time again that human beings are perfectly capable of being healthy without consuming meat.
Above all this, I already made it clear in my original post that I was not here to argue the legality of pedophilia or zoophilia. My premise was that current scientific research indicates that they are just as natural as homosexuality. Thus indiscriminately demonising both zoophiles and pedophiles constitutes sexual discrimination. Sexual discrimination that's worse than anything the LGBT community is facing atm.
I noticed in the posts above a little trend. "If you're X, you're more likely to be bullied/attacked as opposed to people who are not X which is why we should care". Just felt like throwing this out there.
I disagree. Lawmakers are in power, and they don't have to listen to public opinion (they should if they want to be reelected). Prohibition, the 18th Amendment that banned alcohol, was extremely unpopular. The people who supported it were primarily progressive women who didn't want their husbands to drink. It was repealed in the 21st Amendment:
I think of it is that a bunch of select people make the laws, I just complain to get rid of them or not.
Yeah the UK also has a very low voter turn out.
The thing though is that law prescribes public opinion. As in, as I said above, people ha… moreve seen that the right wing was lying and there are literally no negative consequences of homosexual marriage. This will make people more accepting of it.
Also seeing happy gay couples will help with it. Me and my husband when walking in town holding hands or whatever have encountered friends who have treated us homophobically before, but they have apologised because they see that we are happy together. That happens more when the state doesn't discourage same sex partnerships.
I noticed in the posts above a little trend. "If you're X, you're more likely to be bullied/attacked as opposed to people who are not X which is why we should care". Just felt like throwing this out there.
Are you even serious?! Or just being purposefully obtuse?
The point is that when we know you're more likely to be attacked if you're x y or z, we can figure out how to stop it more easily.
It's not saying that being attacked randomly is more acceptable, it's saying it's harder to combat.
Saying homosexual people are more likely to be bullied to the point of committing suicide is relevant when we're talking about homophobic bullying. That is, we're pointing out it has negative effects, and that it is easily stopped with just a bit more compassion.
If we KNOW lots of suicides are to do with LGBT bullying, then we know that we can prevent suicides by combating lgbt bullying.
I noticed in the posts above a little trend. "If you're X, you're more likely to be bullied/attacked as opposed to people who are not X which is why we should care". Just felt like throwing this out there.
Not being equal in what sense exactly? Where is the difference in equality expressed in the general idea of disagreement with homosexuality? People against homosexuality are not necessarily of the mind that homosexuals are not their equals.
So the gay population is like 4% right, so how do you figure that Gay people are over bullied than obese people. There is obviously more obese people than gay people, Obese people are the only group of people that is its legal to discriminate against.
No, I'm saying a fact, not an opinion.
You can't disagree with facts.
LGBT children are over twice as likely to kill themsel… moreves as non lgbt children.
Also, overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling.
There is no cure for homosexuality.
Its true dude, even if you lose the weight you will always have that eating disorder. My buddy was a fat kid in high school. He eventually started lifting weights, but he still has body issues to this day, he doesn't look fat but starves himself to lose that extra anorexic fat.
"overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling."
Damn, I should have known it was that easy, … morethen I might not have had to deal with a life of flutuating weight and 4+ years of psychotherapy.
I know you're not suggesting it's easy, but lets not underplay weight troubles (I say this for personal reasons, and I don't mean to downplay bullying or the hard times many people have with peers and family when they're gay). Correct me if I'm wrong, but sexuality sets in with puberty, since I was little I grew up the fat kid, and even if I lose weight I'll always be the fat kid mentally.
It isn't that easy, but it is at least POSSIBLE.
It certainly sucks, but comparing the issue to racial, sexist or homophobic bullying is just insulting.
So the gay population is like 4% right, so how do you figure that Gay people are over bullied than obese people. There is obviously more ob… moreese people than gay people, Obese people are the only group of people that is its legal to discriminate against.
Yeah, well see the federal government basically said fuck your public opinion, its legal now. Eventually the federal government will make it legal in all 50 states and any push back is being rejected by the "Supreme" court.
Just been sent this and figured I shoudl post it here instead of making a new thread.
I had no idea that marriage equality was happening … moreso quickly, last time I actually counted it was only in 10 states, and now 2/3 of americans live in states with it!
Which was one of the reasons why I refused to watch the video he posted.
And as I said before, "even if I were to watch it, it would not change my viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality.
I agree with what God says about homosexuals and homosexuality in the Bible, and I will not change; nor modify my beliefs, just to be appeasing to others."
And I will continue to state my beliefs in a respectful manner, and if people are hell-bent on finding fault with me because of my beliefs, then that's their problem.
I will treat homosexuals the way I would like them to treat me, with courtesy and respect.
However that does not mean I will support them or their lifestyle.
As I stated earlier: "If people don't like my supporting the Bible's viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality, than their problem in reality is not with me, but rather is with God-almighty himself."
Did you really have to title the thread in such a passive aggressive manner? Don't get me wrong, Hozier is one of my favorite artists and I … morelike this song, but in what way does it benefit you or your cause to call out the "resident homophobes"? People aren't going to change their opinions just because you "feel dread for them" due to said opinions, which when you put it that way sounds incredibly condescending. It honestly just looks like you're trying to start a fight here and nothing else.
You talk like it's a fact that the Bible is unambiguously against homosexuality. The Bible can be interpreted many ways. Read this article for a Christian's view on why homosexuality is acceptable. It's a long article, but I highly recommend at least reading his interpretations of the few passages that anti-gay Christians turn to.
Which was one of the reasons why I refused to watch the video he posted.
And as I said before, "even if I were to watch it, it would not ch… moreange my viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality.
I agree with what God says about homosexuals and homosexuality in the Bible, and I will not change; nor modify my beliefs, just to be appeasing to others."
And I will continue to state my beliefs in a respectful manner, and if people are hell-bent on finding fault with me because of my beliefs, then that's their problem.
I will treat homosexuals the way I would like them to treat me, with courtesy and respect.
However that does not mean I will support them or their lifestyle.
As I stated earlier: "If people don't like my supporting the Bible's viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality, than their problem in reality is not with me, but rather is with God-almighty himself."
Comments
That sucks, but I'm sure you'll get there eventually, it's the way the world is going now, just as women winning the vote swept through nations
So only the Italian minority is in favor? Correst me if I'm wrong, but the red is Istria right?
Yes, you're right.
That map is unfortunately deceptive; the majority of the states there have gay marriage only because of court decisions. While that's good in that there is gay marriage, it can be misleading in terms of public opinion. Even in California (one of the most consistently liberal states), there was a public vote to ban gay marriage by amending the state constitution in 2008 and it passed. I'm guessing the ban was overturned as unconstitutional, since California is in red, but still, in a lot of states the majority (or at least the voting majority) are unfortunately against gay marriage.
In fact, I'm not sure which states (if any) have enacted gay marriage by popular vote. California didn't, New York didn't, and I don't think Massachusetts did either.
Also, since were comparing countries, gay marriage is unfathomable in Korea; I'm pretty sure there isn't even protection against discrimination based on sexual orientation in the work place. I read about a gay pride parade, but everybody was wearing masks, in part because if they came out in public they could actually lose their jobs. What's (sort of) strange, is that, at least last year, there were a ton of gay films, and its something that is in popular culture a lot more than the legal system would lead people to believe. Though I think things are a lot more favorable for transsexuals than homosexuals in Korea (with a number of transsexual celebrities of high recognition).
Oh I know it isn't by public opinion, but I don't really care: the law allows it and it's great that homosexuals in those states have equal rights.
Public opinion towards it will improve when they see that society doesn't rip itself apart from it.
And the majority of americans do support gay marriage, so I'm not that concerned.
Well, as far as how homosexuals are viewed and treated is dependant on public opinion as well as law. As far as the majority being in favor, it varies from state to state, but the really good news is (other than legal equality in itself), is that it is no longer really a wedge issue. In 2000 (or 2004?) a lot of anti-gay marriage bills were added to state referenda in order to drum up Republican support - that isn't possible anymore, because if anything people would vote in favor of gay marriage, or at least not be persuaded to turn up to the polls simply to vote against it (if you didn't know, America has a depressingly low voter turnout).
I might of agreed with you back when i was in high school, but things are different now. Its not as bad as it was some years ago. Now if your Overweight in High school. Its still a miserable torturous experience.
No, I'm saying a fact, not an opinion.
You can't disagree with facts.
LGBT children are over twice as likely to kill themselves as non lgbt children.
Also, overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling.
There is no cure for homosexuality.
Yeah the UK also has a very low voter turn out.
The thing though is that law prescribes public opinion. As in, as I said above, people have seen that the right wing was lying and there are literally no negative consequences of homosexual marriage. This will make people more accepting of it.
Also seeing happy gay couples will help with it. Me and my husband when walking in town holding hands or whatever have encountered friends who have treated us homophobically before, but they have apologised because they see that we are happy together. That happens more when the state doesn't discourage same sex partnerships.
"overweight children can go to the gym and can overcome any mental blocks with counselling."
Damn, I should have known it was that easy, then I might not have had to deal with a life of flutuating weight and 4+ years of psychotherapy.
I know you're not suggesting it's easy, but lets not underplay weight troubles (I say this for personal reasons, and I don't mean to downplay bullying or the hard times many people have with peers and family when they're gay). Correct me if I'm wrong, but sexuality sets in with puberty, since I was little I grew up the fat kid, and even if I lose weight I'll always be the fat kid mentally.
People very much do support gay people because they thinking being homosexual is as fine as being heterosexual.
In fact none of your argument actually makes sense so I'm not sure it's worth debating with you.
But what I don't understand is why you feel sorry for me. I'm married to an awesome guy, we've got kids on the way due in spring next year...why would someone feel sorry for me because of that? I'm very happy.
Ew gross!
It isn't that easy, but it is at least POSSIBLE.
It certainly sucks, but comparing the issue to racial, sexist or homophobic bullying is just insulting.
My little brother got attacked by a group of black guys on his way home. Thank god it didn't happen because he was white.
This made me laugh.
Okay, okay, got my facts wrong, sorry.
You're defending PETA?
's no problem. Sorry if I snapped at you, dude.
It's Christmas Flog61, cheer up.
What on earth are you talking about?
I noticed in the posts above a little trend. "If you're X, you're more likely to be bullied/attacked as opposed to people who are not X which is why we should care". Just felt like throwing this out there.
I disagree. Lawmakers are in power, and they don't have to listen to public opinion (they should if they want to be reelected). Prohibition, the 18th Amendment that banned alcohol, was extremely unpopular. The people who supported it were primarily progressive women who didn't want their husbands to drink. It was repealed in the 21st Amendment:
I think of it is that a bunch of select people make the laws, I just complain to get rid of them or not.
It's Christmas people. Cheer up!
More likely.
More likely.
More likely.
No one is saying racially motivated crime against whites doesn't happen, but that it is disproportionately more frequent toward minorities.
Are you even serious?! Or just being purposefully obtuse?
The point is that when we know you're more likely to be attacked if you're x y or z, we can figure out how to stop it more easily.
It's not saying that being attacked randomly is more acceptable, it's saying it's harder to combat.
Saying homosexual people are more likely to be bullied to the point of committing suicide is relevant when we're talking about homophobic bullying. That is, we're pointing out it has negative effects, and that it is easily stopped with just a bit more compassion.
If we KNOW lots of suicides are to do with LGBT bullying, then we know that we can prevent suicides by combating lgbt bullying.
Seems to me like someone needs to check their privilege.
http://www.checkmyprivilege.com/
So the gay population is like 4% right, so how do you figure that Gay people are over bullied than obese people. There is obviously more obese people than gay people, Obese people are the only group of people that is its legal to discriminate against.
Its true dude, even if you lose the weight you will always have that eating disorder. My buddy was a fat kid in high school. He eventually started lifting weights, but he still has body issues to this day, he doesn't look fat but starves himself to lose that extra anorexic fat.
Being Homosexual is not a bad thing, Being Obese in society is.
This is true.
The whole gay young suicide chart, while they have higher percentages, they don't have nearly as much as people in those graphs as heterosexuals.
I got "SHITLORD." Is that good?
That's great. I can already tell you're a decent person.
Yeah, well see the federal government basically said fuck your public opinion, its legal now. Eventually the federal government will make it legal in all 50 states and any push back is being rejected by the "Supreme" court.
Merry Christmas Charlie, I agree.
I'm going to have to do a better job of hiding my privilege in future conversations.
Which was one of the reasons why I refused to watch the video he posted.
And as I said before, "even if I were to watch it, it would not change my viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality.
I agree with what God says about homosexuals and homosexuality in the Bible, and I will not change; nor modify my beliefs, just to be appeasing to others."
And I will continue to state my beliefs in a respectful manner, and if people are hell-bent on finding fault with me because of my beliefs, then that's their problem.
I will treat homosexuals the way I would like them to treat me, with courtesy and respect.
However that does not mean I will support them or their lifestyle.
As I stated earlier: "If people don't like my supporting the Bible's viewpoint on homosexuals and homosexuality, than their problem in reality is not with me, but rather is with God-almighty himself."
I...don't know how to feel about this.
Umm... tall and proud?
You talk like it's a fact that the Bible is unambiguously against homosexuality. The Bible can be interpreted many ways. Read this article for a Christian's view on why homosexuality is acceptable. It's a long article, but I highly recommend at least reading his interpretations of the few passages that anti-gay Christians turn to.
IT'S JUST A MEME! CALM YOUR RAINBOWS!