To be honest I believe that Vault hunters are mercenaries, of a sort. As long as they can get paid (through cash or weapons) then they'll be on whatever side is offering the most.
100% agree. The Vault Hunters are basically murderous thieves, Handsome Jack is a psychotic ass (who started out with good intentions), and … morethen you have all your psychos, raiders, etc. There's no 'good' guys in the games. I think at most, the Vault Hunters are Chaotic Neutral.
100% agree. The Vault Hunters are basically murderous thieves, Handsome Jack is a psychotic ass (who started out with good intentions), and … morethen you have all your psychos, raiders, etc. There's no 'good' guys in the games. I think at most, the Vault Hunters are Chaotic Neutral.
To be honest I believe that Vault hunters are mercenaries, of a sort. As long as they can get paid (through cash or weapons) then they'll be on whatever side is offering the most.
(Btw - Nice choice for username and profile pic )
Yeah. So what would make you the player? If you work with Handsome Jack are you good or bad? And where does Buttstallion come in all this. Is she evil because she "works" with Jack. I just don't know anymore.
(I can tell that this is the start of a beautiful relationship. ;D p.s. You seem like a really nice person and I thank you for that!)
I think that's true, which means they have a lot of moral ambiguity. Which means, we're not necessarily playing the good guys.
(Thank you! I love your avatar too. )
To be honest, in the Borderlands universe, nobody is a true hero or vilain. In the Pre-Sequel, Lilith become a Fascist Dictator when she ordered the execution of Athena. The Line between Good and Evil just fade away.
Guys are not totally wrong, but after listening to them it feels like we just killed an innocent misunderstood cutie. Which he's not. He's n… moreot a villain but also he's not a hero. Of course betrayals made it worse, but saying he didn't deserve it? It's nonsense.
There are many things guys "missed" or didn't include on purpose.
Jack saw the future, but what about Zarpedon and more important,the aliens? We all know what Zarpedon said in her audio. And the fact that the aliens are helping her (or she's helping them, doesn't matter) - what about it?
Also, Jack did many fucked up things long before BL2 and even The pre-sequel. I know that for a lot of people Moxxi's motivation to kill him came out all wrong and out of place, but we have to remember - that girl is smart. And what's more important here, dated him so she knew better than anyone what kind of a person he was. I think even if she and the vault hunters had doubts about his plans the… [view original content]
Yes he's the villian. Sympathetic aspects and 'good' intentions don't make a hero. Actions do, and practically every action jack took went from bad to worse.
I finally get to add my two cents after playing through TPS at last (Yes, it took me a while, everyone knows), and I gotta say... yeah, Jack's the villain. He used to be a halfway decent human being at the start of the game and even did some genuinely heroic things but in the end, he was evil. And the universe is a better place without him.
That said, he's an incredibly well-written villain and his transformation into Handsome Jack from Nothing-Particularly-Special-To-Look-At Jack was understandable, even if I believe Moxxi, Lilith, and Roland did what needed to be done on Helios (NPSTLA Jack built the freakin' Death Star, after all).
It's Pandora. If you're going to be a murderous, power mad despot, it's there since 9 out of 10 times, the people there deserve it.
Even the people opposing Jack are mostly composed of sadistic, sociopathic scumbags.
To stress how messed up things are, Roland was the most moral guy on the sphere and he's not even from Pandora. Then there's the fact that getting betrayed by the Crimson Lance didn't stop him from stabbing Jack in the back on Helios.
Jack's ultimate crime and vice is that he gambles big and can't accept it when his time and efforts don't pan out. In the Pre-Sequel, his scheme to "save" Pandora hinged on a smal set of strategic sacrifices. For instance, Strapping Angel into the core was horrible, but in Jack's mind, it would've been a temporary restriction that would've ceased once he took control of Pandora with the Eye. When he lost both the Eye and the artifact, he could've just given up, released his daughter, and cut his losses, but like any bad gambler he kept pushing and pushing his bets no matter how much it hurt him and others on the slimmest chance that the next big payout would fix everything and make it all worth it; no one wants to feel like they've wasted their time.
Everything in this series turns rotten with time anyway; wannabe hero Jack went mad, Top cop Zarpedon tried to blow up Pandora, the Crimson Raiders are now little more than a growingly unhinged Lillith's attack dogs. You get the picture.
As to the question, he's the railroad tycoon allegory in a Wild West story (Eridians are the Native Americans Pandorans are the settlers, bandits are the bandits, etc.). When are those ever the good guys?
If you try to look at things from the hero angle, sure Jack WAS trying to destroy all the bandits, psychos, cannibals and all the things tha… moret make Pandora inhabitable for all except the craziest of the crazy.
But he's also trying to do that to a planet that LIKES it that way. Most of the main characters we know love Pandora and the fight it gives them. It's their home. Salvador for example, wouldn't have his home planet ANY other way than a chaotic, screaming deathball in space. Jack was bound to be put down for trying to change Pandora.
Hitler was abused as a child. Doesn't make him a good guy. The same applies to Jack; definitely a villain, and his tragic backstory does nothing but further establish that.
But yeah, I seriously need to get this off my chest: Game theory really is an irritating channel at this point; he's taken to nonsensically grasping at straws, making half-decent joke videos that his new fan base takes seriously, and pointing out obvious things that he makes seem groundbreaking with his dramatic narration and spastic editing. It's kind of a shame; I used to be a big fan when he was starting out. His videos were reasonable enough, and when they weren't, they were funny.
at the start of TPS he's about as much of a hero as the first 4 vault hunters, then he goes insane due to betrayals and getting punched in the face with erydian tech.
I saw one video by Game Theory - the one where he literally spends 10 minutes ranting about how the first level of Call of Duty Ghosts was "EVIL" because it featured a laser satellite - and wanted him to have a nice cup of STFU.
Hitler was abused as a child. Doesn't make him a good guy. The same applies to Jack; definitely a villain, and his tragic backstory does not… morehing but further establish that.
But yeah, I seriously need to get this off my chest: Game theory really is an irritating channel at this point; he's taken to nonsensically grasping at straws, making half-decent joke videos that his new fan base takes seriously, and pointing out obvious things that he makes seem groundbreaking with his dramatic narration and spastic editing. It's kind of a shame; I used to be a big fan when he was starting out. His videos were reasonable enough, and when they weren't, they were funny.
Comments
Aw, thank you!
To be honest I believe that Vault hunters are mercenaries, of a sort. As long as they can get paid (through cash or weapons) then they'll be on whatever side is offering the most.
(Btw - Nice choice for username and profile pic
)
Just watched the ending of Claptastic Voyage.
Jack is definitely not a villain.
Welcome!
What he did was pretty bad and cruel
Thank you! ;w;
I think that's true, which means they have a lot of moral ambiguity. Which means, we're not necessarily playing the good guys.
(Thank you! I love your avatar too.
)
Yeah. So what would make you the player? If you work with Handsome Jack are you good or bad? And where does Buttstallion come in all this. Is she evil because she "works" with Jack. I just don't know anymore.
(I can tell that this is the start of a beautiful relationship. ;D p.s. You seem like a really nice person and I thank you for that!)
To be honest, in the Borderlands universe, nobody is a true hero or vilain. In the Pre-Sequel, Lilith become a Fascist Dictator when she ordered the execution of Athena. The Line between Good and Evil just fade away.
(sorry for the errors, I'm French)
Yes he's the villian. Sympathetic aspects and 'good' intentions don't make a hero. Actions do, and practically every action jack took went from bad to worse.
Handsome Jack. A hero, despite all of what he did. Atleast for me
(no homo)
I finally get to add my two cents after playing through TPS at last (Yes, it took me a while, everyone knows), and I gotta say... yeah, Jack's the villain. He used to be a halfway decent human being at the start of the game and even did some genuinely heroic things but in the end, he was evil. And the universe is a better place without him.
That said, he's an incredibly well-written villain and his transformation into Handsome Jack from Nothing-Particularly-Special-To-Look-At Jack was understandable, even if I believe Moxxi, Lilith, and Roland did what needed to be done on Helios (NPSTLA Jack built the freakin' Death Star, after all).
It's Pandora. If you're going to be a murderous, power mad despot, it's there since 9 out of 10 times, the people there deserve it.
Even the people opposing Jack are mostly composed of sadistic, sociopathic scumbags.
To stress how messed up things are, Roland was the most moral guy on the sphere and he's not even from Pandora. Then there's the fact that getting betrayed by the Crimson Lance didn't stop him from stabbing Jack in the back on Helios.
Jack's ultimate crime and vice is that he gambles big and can't accept it when his time and efforts don't pan out. In the Pre-Sequel, his scheme to "save" Pandora hinged on a smal set of strategic sacrifices. For instance, Strapping Angel into the core was horrible, but in Jack's mind, it would've been a temporary restriction that would've ceased once he took control of Pandora with the Eye. When he lost both the Eye and the artifact, he could've just given up, released his daughter, and cut his losses, but like any bad gambler he kept pushing and pushing his bets no matter how much it hurt him and others on the slimmest chance that the next big payout would fix everything and make it all worth it; no one wants to feel like they've wasted their time.
Everything in this series turns rotten with time anyway; wannabe hero Jack went mad, Top cop Zarpedon tried to blow up Pandora, the Crimson Raiders are now little more than a growingly unhinged Lillith's attack dogs. You get the picture.
As to the question, he's the railroad tycoon allegory in a Wild West story (Eridians are the Native Americans Pandorans are the settlers, bandits are the bandits, etc.). When are those ever the good guys?
Sasha and Fiona pretty much hate it.
Hitler was abused as a child. Doesn't make him a good guy. The same applies to Jack; definitely a villain, and his tragic backstory does nothing but further establish that.
But yeah, I seriously need to get this off my chest: Game theory really is an irritating channel at this point; he's taken to nonsensically grasping at straws, making half-decent joke videos that his new fan base takes seriously, and pointing out obvious things that he makes seem groundbreaking with his dramatic narration and spastic editing. It's kind of a shame; I used to be a big fan when he was starting out. His videos were reasonable enough, and when they weren't, they were funny.
For doing what i as a player could not, namely putting a bullet in to the stupid trashcan, he certainly is a hero to me!
Agreed, he saved me from Claptrap. Best hero ever.
at the start of TPS he's about as much of a hero as the first 4 vault hunters, then he goes insane due to betrayals and getting punched in the face with erydian tech.
tl;dr: chercez la femme
I saw one video by Game Theory - the one where he literally spends 10 minutes ranting about how the first level of Call of Duty Ghosts was "EVIL" because it featured a laser satellite - and wanted him to have a nice cup of STFU.
A once-hero turned into an asshole by other assholes.