Possible Parallel Between Tales and the Pre-Sequel
I'm starting to think that the story of Tales from the Borderlands is meant to mirror Borderlands the Pre-Sequel to some degree.
Here are some parallels (validity questionable) that I've noticed.
Rhys=Jack (Ambitious Hyperion Code Monkey with a predilection for underhandedness and shock elemental weaponry. Slugged across the face shortly after being introduced)
Vaughn=Gladstone (The Brainier, not as Handsome, Hyperion Techie)
Loader Bot=Wilhelm (Strapping Robotic Enforcer)
Gortys=Claptrap (Diminutive and Troublesome Robotic Pal who is nonetheless key to the cast's ambitions)
Yvette=Angel (Super Tech Support)
Fiona=Athena (Arguable the OTHER Protagonist. Deeply cares for her sister. Betrayed by a trusted father figure)
Sasha=Nisha (Gun-Toting Femme Fatale)
Felix=Meriff (Traitorous Codger filled with Regret)
Handsome Jack AI=Felicity (Semi-Helpful Ai Companion developed by a really creepy science dude)
Vasquez=Tassiter
Narrative-wise, they share the broad strokes of a deceptively inoffensive corporate stooge trying to move up in his company only to be embroiled in a web of intrigue and conspiracy that complicates his initially simple scheme and has him throwing his lot in with less-than kosher characters. The tale itself, as it was in the Pre-Sequel, is conveyed to an interested and aggressive third party by the protagonists after the fact (in preference to just Marcus like in Borderlands 1 & 2). A Vault figures in of course though
Plus there are the shared themes of betrayal, ambition, and hypocrisy.
Feel free to discuss or tear this all apart.
Comments
I think the only real similarity here is how Jack and Rhys are both introduced by a slug to the face. I think it's either a coincidence, or heavy foreshadowing that suggests that Rhys will succumb to a state of corruption similar to Jack's.
I agree with:
The Rhys and Jack one I do actually agree with, as they're both in over their head, and both want to get back at their Hyperion nemesis. However, Jack had a bit more villainy in him from the beginning, due to what happened with Felicity and the four Hyperion scientists (unless you think it was ok), whilst Rhys actually seems like a Hero, just like Jack sort of used to be.
Felix and the Meriff do seem like the same character. They even have a sort of similar look.
I'm mixed on:
Fiona and Athena. They do have similar back stories, but they are vastly different in character. This can easily be seen in their encounter in episode 2. Athena is more strong and gets the job done, whilst Fiona is slick whilst being a bright and confident character.
I disagree with:
Gladstone and Vaughn aren't really that similar. Sure, they handle jobs that require smarts, but Vaughn's job is just financing, which doesn't require that much intelligence other than good mathematical skills. However, GLADSTONE's job is literally being a Hyperion Scientist. And you know what they come up with. Also, Gladstone is a coward sort of character, which isn't bad, but it defines him (In Claptastic Voyage, there's a side mission called the Temple of Boom, and Gladstone will tell you to give him info regarding your past, as he literally represents the fear in your mind, possibly with change and hate, whilst Tannis represents courage and spreading the knowledge) whilst Vaughn literally states in the second episode how all the action makes him feel alive.
Loader Bot honestly had much more personality than Willhelm. Whilst he is an enforcer, he also is very helpful to Rhys and Vaughn (Pushing you up over the door in episode one, saving you from Vasquez, brofisting you, and more chances will come in later episodes in which he might help you), and also makes bad ass comments, whilst sometimes stating things an actual human would probably state, (Why must the universe punish the good.") whilst Willhelm is more of the strong and silent type, who seems more of a robot himself than Loader Bot. Most of the time, at least.
The Gortys Sphere doesn't have his own character yet, so I cannot reply. However, I do believe that CL4P-TP will appear in a later episode somehow (not just a billboard cameo) and they will give Gortys Sphere his own little personality. If not, however, they'll either give it to Gortys Sphere, or probably just make Loader Bot the robot who we love. And whilst they aren't relatable other than the fact that they're robots, CL4P-TP and Loader Bot do rock the cats as the main robots (Unless Gortys is going to be the main robot, either shining over Loader Bot, being the same as him, or possibly be outshined by Loader Bot in terms of appearances and importance to the plot.)
Nah. Yvette is more of a sassy (that's the closest word I could find to describe her), not too helpful character (Other then Loader Bot) who is still picking up in the story. Don't get me wrong, she will probably help more in the story like how Angel did in Borderlands 1 (in a way) and 2. However, even then, Yvette will still be a sassy character, whilst Angel will still be a cute/nice character (for most of the game).
Nisha is vastly superior to villainy than Sasha, even in the part where she tries to kill Rhys in episode 1. Also, Sasha hasn't really used her gun much, whilst Nisha literally is a gunslinger. And Sasha doesn't really have it for anyone, whilst Nisha and Jack are the perfect couple. (Nisha and HANDSOME Jack, not regular Jack. Regular Jack isn't really as villainous as Nisha.)
Felicity wasn't really that helpful in the Pre-Sequel, other than the fact that she helped created the constructor bot, in which she still tried to kill you in the end anyways, and this caused her demise, in which case she was only in the Pre-Sequel for how many missions? One? Two? However, the Handsome Jack AI might POSSIBLY (if you chose him) help you escape the Atlas building in which you are currently in a conundrum. Also, Handsome Jack AI is a lot more likeable than Felicity. She didn't have that much character. However, I can't blame her. She WAS only there for two missions if I am correct.
Tassiter is more of the rival manager, and not necessarily the villian, who isn't really hated or loved. Whilst Vasquez is the douchey manager you love to hate (or LOVE). But they do both have the rival/nemesis trait in common, as they are both a step above the heroes in Hyperion.
Yeah, there are a lot of parallells, but a lot of significant differences too. For instance, Rhys may have many things in common with Jack, but he has at least one important difference. Jack saw himself as a hero. Rhys sees himself as a bad guy. (In Ep 1, he says, "So I guess that makes me one of the bad guys of this story.") So, if Jack thought himself a hero and turned into a villain....Then Rhys, who sees himself as a villain, will turn into a hero!
There's a good chance anyway. I think.
What's weird about Rhys is that he doesn't seem to be "not evil" out of a sense of real goodness, but because of a lack of ability.
If he could kill people with his bare hands, he probably would, but unlike Jack, he can't even strangle one dude he took by surprise and even then he's pretty fine with having a Hyperion robot murdering a bunch of guys and taking out a few himself.
That and his main criticism with Jack's misdeeds isn't that people died, but that "too many" people died because of them.
Rhys is kinda difficult to categorize, since so many of his personal traits depend on player choices... Like, you can have him complain that 'too many people died', which is at least a semi-heroic mindset in that he doesn't approve of casualties, or you can have him outright state he wants Jack back as head of Hyperion and will help him get back on top, which implies Rhys is a-ok with Jack's modus operandi.
Regardless, as we all know Pandora is no place for heroes, and none of the protagonists are particularly noble.
I like this.
I like this a lot.
Also, the parallels with Felicity leave me with a lot of conflicting feelings... I obviously don't want Jack to suffer the same fate as her, but at the same it would be totally deserved and kind of poetic, almost?
What might muddle things for you even more is that AI Jack isn't technically Handsome Jack. He's just a computer program designed to think and act like Jack. He hasn't done any of his actual crimes. As vicious, bitter, and egotistical as he is, the thing's practically as innocent as Felicity was.
Unless he, y'know, kills a lot of innocent people on purpose within the next few episodes.
This just blew my tiny mind...
But I also agree that given the opportunity (which I personally granted him at the end of ep 2) he'll probably render himself guilty once more.
See, that's the thing that screws with me. It's probably because I never played any Borderlands before Tales, but I just can't imagine him being anything but the original Jack very easily. He's the first Jack I knew so it makes it hard to think its just some kind of fake. I don't imagine AI Jack would fancy the idea of him being a fake either.
That is true.
I'm guessing that if his character becomes a part of the Borderlands series they'll just use random choices from the game to define his personality? Or maybe they'll create his personality based on what most people voted for?
Also, Roland is a very heroic character. Dr. Zed also isn't that bad of a guy. And there are probably a good amount of citizens. And Steve.
I hope Jack isnt more like Felicity. Not that he really is, but if they kill Holo-Jack off, it would be kinda lame.
Oh, thank you.
And, yes, it would be kind of poetic. However, it's very unlikely to happen because, even from what little I've seen, the Borderlands writers regretted killing off Jack after he turned out to be so popular a character in Borderlands 2, and they've done everything they can to bring him back without totally cheating. First they had a "pre-sequel" where Jack was basically the main character, and now they have TFTB prominently featuring AI Jack. Rest easy. I really doubt they'll make the mistake of killing him off again.
How would you feel if AI Jack's personality actually changes depending on how Rhys interacts with him? You could encourage him to remain a douchebag or perhaps nudge him into being slightly less of an ass?
That could be interesting, but I don't think Jack would ever let himself be influenced by somebody he considers to be beneath him - it would be cool if he changed based on how Rhys physically perceives him, though (after all, he is narrating the story) - so, if your Rhys hates Jack and everything he's done then Jack comes across horribly, but if Rhys admires him you get these 'nicer' moments.
Oh, definitely - I think it would be ridiculous to come up with the whole "hey, look Jack's still alive (kinda)..." plot only to kill him off a couple of episodes later - if anything Tales is cementing his fate, and re-writing the ending of BL2 so he can continue on in BL3.
Here's hoping that Timothy = Timothy because he'll end up being in TFTBL fingers crossed
I have no illusions that this will actually happen, but it would be absolutely amazing if it did. Hell, even if he were mentioned, I'd be ecstatic.
Save Timothy.
I didn't even play Borderlands.
I think it's possible that he'll end up becoming your 'frenemy' in Borderlands 3, since the Pre-Sequel hinted at some overarching threat that needed all available vault hunters to band together.
Either that or his doppelganger.
Some form of proof of life (no matter how minuscule) would be AMAZING.
As for an actual cameo, I'd probably just scream at my screen for a full 90 seconds and immediately log on to the forum to thank Telltale for including him (with a spoiler-tag, of course)!
I've been thinking about this, and I don't think those two dialogue choices are really in conflict with each other. First of all, I don't think "too many people" should necessarily be taken in a sinister way. Even one person may be considered "too many" in Rhys's eyes, or maybe just one INNOCENT person on top of all the guilty, murderous ones is considered "too many" in Rhys's eyes. Who knows? I prefer to think that Rhys considers the death of one innocent person too many.
So, IMO, Rhys genuinely doesn't like that Jack killed people. However, Rhys DOES like the way Jack ran Hyperion, at least compared to how it's being run now. He said in Ep 1 that things got "even worse" at Hyperion after Jack died, and Rhys tells Jack outright that Hyperion hasn't been the same without him. Therefore, I conclude that Rhys doesn't approve of Jack killing people, but Rhys would approve of Jack being back on top at Hyperion because it would make life at Hyperion better. That doesn't necessarily indicate conflicting morals in Rhys...Perhaps selfishness or a lack of foresight, but I don't think one version of Rhys approves of killing people and the other doesn't. That would just be too big a difference.
So basically:
Rhys will wipe Jack's memories but keep his skills, throw Vaughn out of an airlock for fear he was actually going to take wallethead's offer and poison Loaderbot with viruses or whatever to fool someone for some scheme. Fiona will be all like "this is fucked up mang" and leave. Gortys' special skill is killing itself and being obnoxious.
Also, Rhysha.
Well, no other dialog option, as far as I know even mentions the casualties that were a result of Jack's politics? So, unless you pick that one particular option, Rhys won't spare a thought for Jack's victims...
Timothy was the only good thing about the Pre-Sequel.
I'm glad someone besides me thought of this possibility. Is it really fair to judge the AI for things he might not have even done?
I liked TPS, but Timothy was the best part.
Well, maybe. Who really knows what Rhys thinks about? But at least there is that one option.