I really don't like Fiona. Do you? (EP 3 EDIT)
EPISODE 3 EDIT (No real spoilers, don't worry):
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I actually fucking loved her this episode. See? Maybe making this thread wasn't the worst idea I've had. I mean, I definitely doubt Telltale read this and tweaked the script accordingly, but... this was exactly the kind of change that I wanted, and they did a good job of it. She's goofier, she's suave when she needs to be, and she's weak and awkward when appropriate. And hey, I didn't even mind her voice--the delivery was even pretty funny sometimes. Her flaws make her more relatable, but she's still the Pandoran badass that she's intended to be.
Dang. Well done, Telltale.
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Whew, alright. This is going to be a shitstorm, but I gotta get this off my chest. Maybe Telltale can do something with this, too. Alright, let's go, and remember--there's nothing wrong with having an opinion. Please don't kill me.
Fiona, from the very start, has been a very snide, pretentious, and generally unlikeable character--a somewhat failed anti-hero. I feel like Laura Bailey did a poor job voicing her, her fedora is about as fashionable as a fanny pack, her character design bores me, I can't remember her ever making me laugh, and I have difficulty even SLIGHTLY relating to her. Whenever I start playing as her, I groan and wish that I could go back to playing Rhys. Remember that one time where you're supposed to use an EMP to stop Rhys from scanning the vault key? I purposely failed it, simply because her pretentious attitude and shitty little smirk made me WANT her to fail miserably. I just don't feel like I'm in her shoes.
I've seen plenty of likeable villains before, Rhys and Jack aside. If you've played Grand Theft Auto, Hotline Miami, the other Borderlands games, or even The Wolf Among Us, you'd see that a few noble acts and some kind character traits here and there can make you get past a psychopath's violent tendencies, and their crazy quirks can draw you in further. Then, maybe they'll justify their violence a little with a tragic backstory and antagonize the good guys a little, and BAM, people love 'em. I get that it sounds a lot easier on paper (writing's fuckin' hard, I know), but Telltale still did a poor job of making me sympathize with her. Honestly, I don't care too much about Sasha and Fiona's struggle with Felix. It felt like a failed attempt to humanize the two.
I guess they're trying to make her badass and seemingly more capable than Rhys... but she isn't badass in the sense that Clementine, Bigby, or Lee is. I don't want her to succeed, and she's confident in a way that just isn't attractive. Unattractive confidence can be a good character trait to behold, but Telltale makes it seem too much like they're dying us to like her. She's just... dull, and riddled with stereotypical character traits. Not much creative going on with her; even the writers seem to be playing favorites with Rhys (as they should, honestly).
Episode 2 made something clear for me; Rhys is the real star of Tales, and I'd like things to stay that way. But maybe Telltale should do something to make Fiona more enjoyable to play as and observe. She has a fair amount of fans, and that's great, but she's one of the two playable characters for Christ's sake; shouldn't pretty much ALL of us like her?
Comments
I find Fiona to be a wee bit rude and somewhat unlikeable.
Most of her dialogue options seem to be her not giving a shit that much or getting too cocky.
I don't know, I kind of like Fiona, I think she's alright. She's not really supposed to be a good person neither is Rhys as you can make Rhys a complete bastard. Though, I do have an issue with the way Laura Baily voices Fiona, this "bored" and "tired" sounding voice Laura does is kind of annoying and doesn't do a great job in making me FULLY invested in Fiona even though I like her acting fine. I didn't like it in Wolf Among Us and I didn't like it in the LEGO games.
I think Fiona is shown as more capable than Rhys is because Pandora is a dangerous and crazy place. Considering she's not really a fighter like a Vault Hunter is, she and Sasha had to survive on just their wits. There's no way she'd live to be 29 if she wasn't a badass in her own right. And to be a con artist with such a huge bounty on her head, she clearly tricked and pissed off a LOT of people. I think Fiona is pretty awesome.
She's my favorite charachter.
Fiona's my favourite character from the start, but I find your views reasonable. She is definitely not a good person and being an arrogant smartass (almost) all the time. Perhaps this is also the reason she attracts me because she's different from most of the protagonists who have heroic, bright and righteous images. I like Rhys, Bigby, Lee and Clementine too, but she's special for me. It can be interesting (for me at least) when a protagonist is a total jerk, though I admit it is disturbing to play as a character you do not like at all.
What a strange thread. Fiona is the best.
TV Tropes has Rhys fitting into 40 tropes while Fiona fits 18. Just because a character does fit into a stereotype doesn't make them a boring/over the top character. What makes Fiona boring is that her part in the story is, at the moment, not there. Sure she has a goal (get off the planet) along side the groups goal, but that's it. This whole thing with Vallory will have more Fiona moments than Rhys.
I've always considered Fiona and Rhys two sides of a coin, they're similar on a lot of fronts. if the two weren't as stubborn they'd probably make a better team.
But yeah, I like Fiona and I hope she can get out of Handsome Jack AI's shadow.
Well, that's what you get by adding female characters as the main heroes of the story. No matter how much you've tried, they won't be as popular anyway. It's just the way it works.
Speaking about Rhys, even though I like him, but he's far less believable and realistic than any other character in series. Yes, very likeable and all that, but so far it seems he doesn't really have a backbone, and almost no personality. He's just funny and unlucky, a perfect clown. And doesn't really fit in the series at all, but I ain't even mad, cause you know. Funny.
The Hyperion douchebag is a 'hero'? Um...
Double standard, whichever way you slice it.
Rhys is literally a fanboy for one of the most evil people in the franchise. Which, considering the setting is a hellish planet filled with thugs and flesh-eating aliens, is quite evil.
The nicest people on Pandora are still mass-murdering thugs. A con-artist comes across as a saint when taking this into account.
Strange? It doesn't matter if the opinions unpopular, I just wanted to comment.
Rhys is a lot more stereotypical in some regards, but I think it gives him some campy personality that makes him fit well in the Borderlsnds universe. Fiona's less stereotypical, but comes off as pretty boring; to me, it looks like the writers were trying hard to run with s tough, original concept, and just kinda flopped.
I'm not talking good or evil here, I'm just saying that she's a poorly written/designed/voiced character.
Are you calling me sexist or something? I love TONS of female leads in games (Clementine? Hello?). It's just that this one is... Boring. If she was a guy, she'd still be boring. Her gender doesn't have some sort of subconscious effect on my decision there.
I love bad guys, I just don't think she's a well-written one. The gta v protagonists, for example, were even worse people, but watching their humanizing struggles in life just made me more fond of them. Fiona just isn't relatable for me, nor is she as charming as the game makes her out to be.
I have to admit, the voice is what off puts me the most. I've never liked Laura's performances
Looking back, I could've done a better job of explaining myself in the OP. I'll rewrite it a little and clarify some things, but right now it's 3 am, I'm on a phone, and my hand is dying from all these responses I've written.
Eh, I like her, I just think Sasha and Fiona need something more to do in the story since they currently feel a bit like tag alongs.
I don't call you anything. I'm talking about the pattern here.
And Clementine is not a "female character", she's a "child character". As, for example, Ellie in The last of us. Both are likeable because the audience sees them as children first, and their gender just being an addition to that. People can like female characters who's rude, baddass, egoistic and such only if it comes either with sexualization along the way or at least they fall for the main character and treat them better than the rest of the crew. And since Fiona (and also Sasha) does neither, it's hard to like her. Their attitude is also in contrast with Rhys' who's kind of an idiot enough to be friendly with everyone. I find THAT to be a less realistic tnan anything really, and I would even call that a bad writing but at the same time I let it slide because whatever. They both bound to their roles both by the role the devs made for them and by their gender. And yes, it makes a difference - Rhys' character wouldn't be as funny if it was a female - because no one would've punched him in the face for fun and we wouldn't find it funny when people were humiliating him. And Fiona's and Sasha's would've been just badass grifters, like the vault hunters, and no one would've questioned why they treat others so poorly and such because they coul'd've done it in a badass or funny way instead of... this.
Your poll has a majority of indifferent or negative options. You have two that pretty much say the same thing with different wording (least favourite character).
Just saying, you might want to make a balanced poll if you actually WANT good answers.
I, uh... Whew. Alright.
They don't say the same thing, and I doubt that they're having any considerable effect on the poll's results.
Yeah, no, you're talking about her personality.
I do kinda agree with you. I'm female and I love playing badass female characters, but, like you, I don't feel I relate to Fiona all that much. It seems to me that most of her responses are just various shades of flippant, and that we're supposed to enjoy that, but I personally don't. Rhys can at least be either friendly or a total douchebag, and I do love me some douchebaggery... Come on, one of my very favorite player characters is renegade!femshep.
Idk.. It also feels like Rhys' brand of jerkass is more lighthearted and funny and therefore fits the tone better? Options like 'who called the waaahmbulance' just amuse me more than 'let's push these people out of the speeding vehicle so they die, hahaha'. I guess I just don't find Fiona and Sasha's attitudes all that funny or appealing. Also, it does kind of stink of the double standard where they can threaten the male heroes with death cause they're girls, but if Rhys and Vaughn did that they'd cross the moral event horizon, so they're limited to being petty, and that annoys me.
Fiona is bae
I like Rhys and Fiona equally, they both have an intereseting character and story and unlike GoT, I never care who I'm playing as
I for one like all the characters in the game, yes including August and Vasquez. Yes I like some more than others but it's given. Personaly I think that your reasoning is flawed because that how Fiona really is and making her nicer would be againt her character. Besides she balances Rhys the loveable goof with her snaky attitude.
I do really like Fiona and since it's your right to have an opinion, it's my right to completely disagree with it.
I adore Fiona.
Yeah, a child regardless of gender is not the same thing as an adult and treated/viewed by the others differently - what a bummer.
I like her, but that could be because I love Laura Bailey lol.
I have to admit I too feel like there is little warmth about her and she's way less interesting than Rhys. I think I expected her to be a bit more like Sasha (like sassy, witty and sharp), and I think that would've suited her better as I feel quite indifferent about her - she's just sort of meh - while Sasha actually has more character than she does. I agree I think her concept is good but she's been poorly written compared to the other characters around her. She is mysterious since there is still a lot that we don't know about her and her past, but at the moment I don't really like her enough to be all that curious. I don't know, seems like I'm in the minority but hopefully she'll go through a good arc in the upcoming episodes and become more interesting.
I actually think what you described suits Fiona too. The only difference between her and Sasha is that Sasha's short-tempered while Fiona's more confident and always focused on the task at hand. More serious, too.
I like Fiona a lot, she's probably my second favorite character in Tales so far next to Holo Jack.
Also, Laura Bailey tho
Man, I don't really agree with what you said earlier though. I disagree with the assertion that children can't be considered female characters overall. Gender is pretty distinctive, and can be pretty relevant to the story.
I wrote the OP a little poorly, but I'm writing from the perspective that she was written in such a way that she comes off as an irritating character with no redeemable qualities that I care about. That's not good for a lead role.
They are considered as such, but there's a difference is perceiving a child/teen or a young woman. Because kids will be kids first, everything else will be a different matter.
Btw, I kinda forgot how old Clem is in season 2, but I'm pretty sure everything would've been different is she was a teen or a young adult. Could've been also "meh" to everyone, like the main character from Beyond two souls, especially if she was like that from the start of the series.
I like her, but I also agree with many of your points too. Compared to Rhys, she's not as interesting or likable. She doesn't have a worthwhile inner conflict, she doesn't have a clear-set goal, and her personality is ill-defined and typical. Sasha, though polarizing for her harsh attitude, is at least more interesting to watch because her personality is more dynamic and her conflict over Felix's betrayal added more to her character. And I much rather spend the time playing Rhys than Fiona.
I will say the only things I disagree with you on is character design and relatability. I personally love her character design (though less than Sasha's and Rhys'). This is just a matter of personal preference: I love the color combination of red, gold, and white, and old-fashioned western-style cloths. Based on just her design in the trailers, I thought I would love Fiona much more than Rhys before the game was released. For relatability, I am also a mellow older sister to a spunky little sister with the same 5-year age gap. A lot of what she does for Sasha I can see myself doing for my sister. That's a big reason why I trusted her when it came down to it.
Your arguments aren't invalid, though. People can disagree with you but I don't see why they shouldn't let you have a say.
Fiona will likely have some screen time with Maya, or Lilith in the future, and I believe her voice matches quite nicely to them, placing her in the same age-group. She's just very different from Sasha, who has had some great scenes, but is also more hot-headed than Fiona.
Lilith, Maya, and Athena are typically serious, gun toting bad-asses, with mature voices that only jump up when they score a critical hit or find some awesome loot. That's about all there is on Pandora to be excited about anyway. To me, Fiona has the right voice for this world. She just hasn't had many magic moments yet. She has had one moment that put me in a fit of giggles in Episode 2...
"Is this yours? Mind if I take it?"
Someone's gotta remember that.
Man, everyone's really misunderstanding this: she can be a dick, evil, rude, and all of that. I'd just prefer if she was loveable, too. Telltale went about her in a way that's just obnoxious from my perspective as a player.
Rhys and Jack are morally fucked, but they're loveable, too. You don't see me complaining about them.