Hmm... I don't like seeing Rhys get punched in the face, but I can deal with it - in games, you get punched/shot/hurt etc. often. It's just how games work. But when I think about it, I would feel really uncomfortable if Fiona got punched in the face, at least if it happened the way it happens with Rhys - via the Stranger, or Vasquez.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - I'm one of the people who do enjoy the assertive man/ caring woman dichotomy, and while I by no means want it to be the only viable option, I suppose I'd like to have the opportunity to play Fiona as a somewhat nicer character, in addition to her 'whatever' choices, the way the game allows Rhys to be a nice guy or a jerkass.
I always get insanely suspicious when someone says they dislike a female character because they're arrogant. People are less forgiving towar… moreds girls for being cocky than guys...
I agree with you 110% on that! Traits people find attractive in males are often seen as bitchy or undesired in females, and it drives me insane. Also, wait, people find it funny when Rhys gets punched? WTF? I cringed every time it happened.
But you can do that. In almost every scene where you play as her you can be nice - nice to Felix, Sasha, Shade, Vaughn, Rhys, even August. For every "mean" answer we have a neutral one and a nice one. And of course the silence option. We have exactly that for Rhys too. There's no difference. The only thing we can't control is what they do/say to each other when they're with the Captor.
Hmm... I don't like seeing Rhys get punched in the face, but I can deal with it - in games, you get punched/shot/hurt etc. often. It's just … morehow games work. But when I think about it, I would feel really uncomfortable if Fiona got punched in the face, at least if it happened the way it happens with Rhys - via the Stranger, or Vasquez.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - I'm one of the people who do enjoy the assertive man/ caring woman dichotomy, and while I by no means want it to be the only viable option, I suppose I'd like to have the opportunity to play Fiona as a somewhat nicer character, in addition to her 'whatever' choices, the way the game allows Rhys to be a nice guy or a jerkass.
I always get insanely suspicious when someone says they dislike a female character because they're arrogant. People are less forgiving towar… moreds girls for being cocky than guys...
I agree with you 110% on that! Traits people find attractive in males are often seen as bitchy or undesired in females, and it drives me insane. Also, wait, people find it funny when Rhys gets punched? WTF? I cringed every time it happened.
im just glad most of people disagres with you. in that poll about 70% people like fiona. rhys is a better looking and fun carachter but fiona is real cool to. 2 diferents sides of the sam story. i realy like what they have done so far. dont forget we only at 2 episode alot of story still coming, borderlands universe is huge and have alot of potencial.
im just glad most of people disagres with you. in that poll about 70% people like fiona. rhys is a better looking and fun carachter but fion… morea is real cool to. 2 diferents sides of the sam story. i realy like what they have done so far. dont forget we only at 2 episode alot of story still coming, borderlands universe is huge and have alot of potencial.
dont forget we only at 2 episode alot of story still coming, borderlands universe is huge and have alot of potencial.
That's partial… morely why I made this thread. I want Telltale to see it, and reconsider her character a little so that more players appreciate her.
For some reason there are lots of people crying and raging over female characters lately, be it Mad Max Fury road, The witcher 3, DAI and so on. Btw, I remember many were displeased with Snow too, and for the same reason. They all even use the same words, calling them annoying, egotistical and arrogant and trying to make it look like the devs/writers overdid it in order for them to look badass and as capable as the main heroes.
I always get insanely suspicious when someone says they dislike a female character because they're arrogant. People are less forgiving towar… moreds girls for being cocky than guys...
I agree with you 110% on that! Traits people find attractive in males are often seen as bitchy or undesired in females, and it drives me insane. Also, wait, people find it funny when Rhys gets punched? WTF? I cringed every time it happened.
I've thought about it more, and I think a lot of why I like her but at the same time don't like her is the fact I cannot stand how she acts in the present.
In her story I really like her and her chemistry with other characters, but at the same time I know she's just going to end up bitter and angry. Granted I don't know why she is this way, but I don't think I will be able to fully embrace her character until the way she acts with Rhys and the Stranger is justified in the story or she calms down.
I've thought about it more, and I think a lot of why I like her but at the same time don't like her is the fact I cannot stand how she acts in the present.
It all came down to the same thing after all. The same thing why people hated on Sasha in ep1.
I've thought about it more, and I think a lot of why I like her but at the same time don't like her is the fact I cannot stand how she acts … morein the present.
In her story I really like her and her chemistry with other characters, but at the same time I know she's just going to end up bitter and angry. Granted I don't know why she is this way, but I don't think I will be able to fully embrace her character until the way she acts with Rhys and the Stranger is justified in the story or she calms down.
Well, that's for the writers at Telltale to figure out. Their job, not mine.
I don't entirely know what they could do to make her better, I just know that she sucks a little. I'm not a chef, I just know that their filet mignon tastes like shit, if you catch my drift.
Well with Sasha I knew the reason why she was angry, I understood it and why it was a big part of her character, and still liked her afterwards. With Fiona I have no idea why she is angry. With how I'm playing the story so far, they should be friends, and I guess that's why my lack of knowledge is frustrating me. This anger shouldn't be part of her character as far as I know, but it is, and I can't like her for it.
But this can also change once a legitamate reason comes up.
I've thought about it more, and I think a lot of why I like her but at the same time don't like her is the fact I cannot stand how she acts … morein the present.
It all came down to the same thing after all. The same thing why people hated on Sasha in ep1.
Well, that's for the writers at Telltale to figure out. Their job, not mine.
I don't entirely know what they could do to make her better,… more I just know that she sucks a little. I'm not a chef, I just know that their filet mignon tastes like shit, if you catch my drift.
It's not only about being angry. It's also about acting on it, rather than being passive-agressive like everyone usually expect them to be.
And isn't it enough to know that she's angry for a good reason? I mean, it's Fiona. She doesn't care that the boys are Hyperion, that they lied and that they're kinda useless. She's rational. With all we know, I think we can safely assume that Rhys screwed up big tim and they didn't get the money.
Well with Sasha I knew the reason why she was angry, I understood it and why it was a big part of her character, and still liked her afterwa… morerds. With Fiona I have no idea why she is angry. With how I'm playing the story so far, they should be friends, and I guess that's why my lack of knowledge is frustrating me. This anger shouldn't be part of her character as far as I know, but it is, and I can't like her for it.
But this can also change once a legitamate reason comes up.
Sorry, I didn't know you were making the distinction between acting and being passive-agressive, but either way it's the anger I'm focusing on.
At least for me I can't sympathize with her anger until I have a reason to. I'm sure Rhys did screw them over at some point, but I don't know that for sure or what circumstances surround that. It's just how I feel. But I still like her character in the story.
It's not only about being angry. It's also about acting on it, rather than being passive-agressive like everyone usually expect them to be.
… more
And isn't it enough to know that she's angry for a good reason? I mean, it's Fiona. She doesn't care that the boys are Hyperion, that they lied and that they're kinda useless. She's rational. With all we know, I think we can safely assume that Rhys screwed up big tim and they didn't get the money.
I think the reason is that they're stuck with each other because Gortys can "work" only with them both around. If it were me, I would've been pretty pissed. Even if I liked Rhys but the mere idea of needing to stick with someone no matter what is enough to kill any positive feelings or friendsip. I mean, it's not even a choice at this point, because Gortys and the Vault was their only chance to get, well, money. They both wanted it, needed it. And now the question is, why Rhys was talking about some property on one of the Edens while Fiona doesn't really seems to be rich(er). And there's also the pic in ep5 preview screen where they fight each other.
Sorry, I didn't know you were making the distinction between acting and being passive-agressive, but either way it's the anger I'm focusing … moreon.
At least for me I can't sympathize with her anger until I have a reason to. I'm sure Rhys did screw them over at some point, but I don't know that for sure or what circumstances surround that. It's just how I feel. But I still like her character in the story.
Look at the poll. 26% of the people who voted had negative/indifferent reactions to Fiona. That's pretty bad.
And there is something wrong with me not liking Fiona. I don't love to hate her, I just don't like her. It's bad writing on their part if a central character has no charm for an entire fourth of the audience, no matter how you spin it.
If I made this poll on the Sam and Max forums for the two freelance police, I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out. If I did a poll like this for Clementine or Lee? God help me. But look at how many people agree with me here. You wouldn't get that on a poll for any other main Telltale character, and I think that means they did something wrong.
Do we, though? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that I, personally, haven't felt like any of the options we got with Fiona were really friendly... It might be the way her lines are delivered, or it might be the fact the whole relationship between the girls and the boys started with Fiona and Sasha trying to kill them (and that being presented as a joke... haha...). It just feels weird to me.
Now, I don't want to come off as sexist, that is the last thing I want. I'm a girl. I want badass females in games. But I, personally, don't feel that Fiona is fulfilling that need, for me. She's rude. I don't like to be rude. Maybe it's as simple as that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But you can do that. In almost every scene where you play as her you can be nice - nice to Felix, Sasha, Shade, Vaughn, Rhys, even August. F… moreor every "mean" answer we have a neutral one and a nice one. And of course the silence option. We have exactly that for Rhys too. There's no difference. The only thing we can't control is what they do/say to each other when they're with the Captor.
I know. But being annoyed with someone is different than actively being antagonistic with that person. And I'm sure there is probably some reason they are fighting, especially given that Episode 5 title card, it's just the not knowing of why they are fighting. Once all the vagueness is cleared up I'm sure I'll fully like Fiona again.
I think the reason is that they're stuck with each other because Gortys can "work" only with them both around. If it were me, I would've bee… moren pretty pissed. Even if I liked Rhys but the mere idea of needing to stick with someone no matter what is enough to kill any positive feelings or friendsip. I mean, it's not even a choice at this point, because Gortys and the Vault was their only chance to get, well, money. They both wanted it, needed it. And now the question is, why Rhys was talking about some property on one of the Edens while Fiona doesn't really seems to be rich(er). And there's also the pic in ep5 preview screen where they fight each other.
The queston is, if they even intended her to be likeable? So much that everyone should've liked her? I really doubt it. And I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who didn't like, say, Furiosa but that doesn't mean that writers did something wrong. They wanted to portrait a badass stoic and confident character, they did it. They can't be responsible for your feelings. Hate them or love them - they're still there, playing their roles.
I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out.
I saw people hating on Show and talking so much sh-t about her that I find it very hard to believe it. And she's one of the main characters too. In a sense, she's almost like Fiona and the only difference - she's not a playable character.
I know nothing about Sam and Max, but I'm quite aware of how people can hate characters because of Dragon Age fandom. You can find haters anywhere, for every character. But you can find tons of fans as well. It proves nothing.
Look at the poll. 26% of the people who voted had negative/indifferent reactions to Fiona. That's pretty bad.
And there is something wron… moreg with me not liking Fiona. I don't love to hate her, I just don't like her. It's bad writing on their part if a central character has no charm for an entire fourth of the audience, no matter how you spin it.
If I made this poll on the Sam and Max forums for the two freelance police, I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out. If I did a poll like this for Clementine or Lee? God help me. But look at how many people agree with me here. You wouldn't get that on a poll for any other main Telltale character, and I think that means they did something wrong.
The queston is, if they even intended her to be likeable? So much that everyone should've liked her? I really doubt it. And I'm pretty sure … morethere are tons of people who didn't like, say, Furiosa but that doesn't mean that writers did something wrong. They wanted to portrait a badass stoic and confident character, they did it. They can't be responsible for your feelings. Hate them or love them - they're still there, playing their roles.
I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out.
I saw people hating on Show and talking so much sh-t about her that I find it very hard to believe it. And she's one of the main characters too. In a sense, she's almost like Fiona and the only difference - she's not a playable character.
I know nothing about Sam and Max, but I'm quite aware of how people can hate characters because of Dragon Age fandom. You can find haters anywhere, for every character. But you can find tons of fans as well. It proves nothing.
Well, in this case, I'd say the difference is in the 'playable character' part. You can have all sorts of npc characters around in a game - loved, hated, ambiguous characters. But having a playable character that is disliked by a significant part of the player base is an issue... especially when you're expected to identify with that character to an extent. That's where dialogue options come in - you should have various ones, so that you can choose how you want to play your character. I feel that's where Fiona fails as one, as her characterization only ever goes in one direction. That denies the player the choice, and can very well make them dislike the character.
The queston is, if they even intended her to be likeable? So much that everyone should've liked her? I really doubt it. And I'm pretty sure … morethere are tons of people who didn't like, say, Furiosa but that doesn't mean that writers did something wrong. They wanted to portrait a badass stoic and confident character, they did it. They can't be responsible for your feelings. Hate them or love them - they're still there, playing their roles.
I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out.
I saw people hating on Show and talking so much sh-t about her that I find it very hard to believe it. And she's one of the main characters too. In a sense, she's almost like Fiona and the only difference - she's not a playable character.
I know nothing about Sam and Max, but I'm quite aware of how people can hate characters because of Dragon Age fandom. You can find haters anywhere, for every character. But you can find tons of fans as well. It proves nothing.
I dunno, I was really friendly with everyone. With Shade. And Scooter. And Rhys. It was adorable to call the boys our friends and seeing Rhys' awkward reaction.
Actually, I really liked her moments with Vaughn. Depending on the lines you choose, it can be really friendly and funny.
Fiona's just... aloof. Distant. She's more reserved than any other character in TftB and rarely shows her emotions, and mostly does that for her family - and that's only Felix and Sasha. In ep2 it's only Sasha. I think it's the part of the job and part of living on Pandora. And also being a big sister. It makes sense for her being more serious and careful around people than even Sasha, despite them both being con artists.
Now, I don't want to come off as sexist, that is the last thing I want. I'm a girl. I want badass females in games. But I, personally, don't feel that Fiona is fulfilling that need, for me. She's rude. I don't like to be rude. Maybe it's as simple as that... ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I want to clear that out - that reaction that we have is not entitled to the gender. And it doesn't really make us sexists. I'm saying us because I know that feeling and I've been there as I'm also a girl. Everyone expects female characters to be nice by default, to be humane, to be merciful. To forgive people. It's hard to accept the can be just as mean, rough and stern. It's like they can't just be like that, they need a solid reason and justifications for such rude behavior. And while I'm myself don't like to be a douche in games when given a choice, but I think everyone has right to be angry and to express it.
Do we, though? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that I, personally, haven't felt like any of the options we got with Fiona wer… moree really friendly... It might be the way her lines are delivered, or it might be the fact the whole relationship between the girls and the boys started with Fiona and Sasha trying to kill them (and that being presented as a joke... haha...). It just feels weird to me.
Now, I don't want to come off as sexist, that is the last thing I want. I'm a girl. I want badass females in games. But I, personally, don't feel that Fiona is fulfilling that need, for me. She's rude. I don't like to be rude. Maybe it's as simple as that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, in this case, I'd say the difference is in the 'playable character' part. You can have all sorts of npc characters around in a game - … moreloved, hated, ambiguous characters. But having a playable character that is disliked by a significant part of the player base is an issue... especially when you're expected to identify with that character to an extent. That's where dialogue options come in - you should have various ones, so that you can choose how you want to play your character. I feel that's where Fiona fails as one, as her characterization only ever goes in one direction. That denies the player the choice, and can very well make them dislike the character.
I don't think it's that big of an issue. I have limited examples of games where we have more than 1 protagonist but... I know you just can't make them all likeable in a sense where almost everyone will like them evenly. I can remember broken age, dreamfall chapters, pathologic and can't think of other examples now, my bad. I'm sure there's more but it's 2:30am for me xD. And even so, I only found both pcs equally interesting in broken age. In other two someone's always better in a sense that I personaly like him/her better. It's often inevitable.
Well, in this case, I'd say the difference is in the 'playable character' part. You can have all sorts of npc characters around in a game - … moreloved, hated, ambiguous characters. But having a playable character that is disliked by a significant part of the player base is an issue... especially when you're expected to identify with that character to an extent. That's where dialogue options come in - you should have various ones, so that you can choose how you want to play your character. I feel that's where Fiona fails as one, as her characterization only ever goes in one direction. That denies the player the choice, and can very well make them dislike the character.
I do agree with what you're saying about female characters in general. My issue lies with how Fiona is presented. I feel that her writers were aware of the issues with many female chars in games, and tried to compensate for them.. too much. She ended up having mostly dismissive, badass options,and few kind, compassionate ones. She (and Sasha) is allowed to be rude where the male characters aren't... or at least the guys are treated as 'bad' for taking the rude options, while the girls aren't.
I said before, I like playing a jerkass. I like playing a female jerkass, like renegade Shepard. But I never felt like the game was treating me differently for being a mean girl in ME. It does feel like I'm being somehow expected to be one, and validated for playing a douchebag Fiona in TFTB, with the options she's given, but a douchebag Rhys is a punchline and an 'evil character'. That, I don't like.
I dunno, I was really friendly with everyone. With Shade. And Scooter. And Rhys. It was adorable to call the boys our friends and seeing Rhy… mores' awkward reaction.
Actually, I really liked her moments with Vaughn. Depending on the lines you choose, it can be really friendly and funny.
Fiona's just... aloof. Distant. She's more reserved than any other character in TftB and rarely shows her emotions, and mostly does that for her family - and that's only Felix and Sasha. In ep2 it's only Sasha. I think it's the part of the job and part of living on Pandora. And also being a big sister. It makes sense for her being more serious and careful around people than even Sasha, despite them both being con artists.
Now, I don't want to come off as sexist, that is the last thing I want. I'm a girl. I want badass females in games. But I, personally, don't feel that Fiona is fulfilling that need, for me. She's rude. I don't like to be rude. Maybe it'… [view original content]
Sorry for voicing my opinion. But why would I need to say what Telltale should change? They've got a HUGE team of writers; if they want to make an unlikeable character more appreciated, they can probably figure that shit out better than I could.
Wow okay.. so telltale should completely change their character so it can please YOU? But you yourself don't even know what you would like a… morebout her. I'm sorry I just don't see the point of this thread and all other than that you want everyone to know how much you hate Fiona.
Wow okay.. so telltale should completely change their character so it can please YOU? But you yourself don't even know what you would like about her. I'm sorry I just don't see the point of this thread and all other than that you want everyone to know how much you hate Fiona.
Well, that's for the writers at Telltale to figure out. Their job, not mine.
I don't entirely know what they could do to make her better,… more I just know that she sucks a little. I'm not a chef, I just know that their filet mignon tastes like shit, if you catch my drift.
A fourth of the players isn't the vast minority, and I do think that such a large amount of similar negative opinions does weigh heavily on the quality of the game.
Telltale likes to listen to our opinions for the story's sake, and I think this is a situation where they should consider them.
It's a personal issue, writers don't really need to appease a small negative minority.
This is all subjectivity and it's starting to seem like you guys are trying to make your negative opinions an objective problem with the game.
Well, for me the issue isn't that I hate the character... It's that I don't like her very much. I am by no means trying to make the writers change anything, I'm just expressing my opinion.. as long as Rhys is there as a playable protagonist, I'm happy. I'll get through the Fiona segments, even though they're somewhat boring to me. But if there is a 'moral' choice between Jack Rhys and Fiona again... well I know who I'll be choosing.
I don't think it's that big of an issue. I have limited examples of games where we have more than 1 protagonist but... I know you just can't… more make them all likeable in a sense where almost everyone will like them evenly. I can remember broken age, dreamfall chapters, pathologic and can't think of other examples now, my bad. I'm sure there's more but it's 2:30am for me xD. And even so, I only found both pcs equally interesting in broken age. In other two someone's always better in a sense that I personaly like him/her better. It's often inevitable.
A fourth of the players isn't the vast minority, and I do think that such a large amount of similar negative opinions does weigh heavily on … morethe quality of the game.
Telltale likes to listen to our opinions for the story's sake, and I think this is a situation where they should consider them.
EDIT: Typo, sorry.
Typo. I meant "vast minority", not minority. There are less of us, but it's still a sizeable chunk of the fanbase.
But yeah, this is all part of some ulterior motive to control Telltale. I'm real manipulative and all that, good job. Now, can we avoid the personal attacks? You don't need to accuse me of being a super-manipulative sociopath or whatever just because I want Telltale to change a character.
.........didn't you start out this thread by saying YOUR OPINION was UNPOPULAR?
Which means that LIKING FIONA is the POPULAR consensus.
Now you're just being manipulative. This is your personal issue, not really the game's.
Can we drop the personal attacks? I was hoping you guys would be mature enough to be civil here, and the thread was starting off pretty well, but I've been accused of being manipulative, sexist, selfish... Man, all I'm saying is that I don't like Fiona and that Telltale should consider our opinions in their later episodes. To be honest, it's kind of funny to watch people get so riled up over this, but I don't want this thread to get derailed. Let's bring things down a notch.
Did I say sociopath? No. Did I say that you wanted to control Telltale? No. It just REALLY seems like you want your PERSONAL issue to be an objective problem with the game.
Typo. I meant "vast minority", not minority. There are less of us, but it's still a sizeable chunk of the fanbase.
But yeah, this is all … morepart of some ulterior motive to control Telltale. I'm real manipulative and all that, good job. Now, can we avoid the personal attacks? You don't need to accuse me of being a super-manipulative sociopath or whatever just because I want Telltale to change a character.
I think both Rhys and Fiona are just bound to their roles. Fiona is a badass, Rhys is a clown. Btw, Rhys is punched no matter what he says half of the times, but that's not because he's an asshole but because Vasquez is an asshole. There's two sides of it here - making him (Rhys) look like a clown and making Hugo look like a douche he is.
I do agree with what you're saying about female characters in general. My issue lies with how Fiona is presented. I feel that her writers we… morere aware of the issues with many female chars in games, and tried to compensate for them.. too much. She ended up having mostly dismissive, badass options,and few kind, compassionate ones. She (and Sasha) is allowed to be rude where the male characters aren't... or at least the guys are treated as 'bad' for taking the rude options, while the girls aren't.
I said before, I like playing a jerkass. I like playing a female jerkass, like renegade Shepard. But I never felt like the game was treating me differently for being a mean girl in ME. It does feel like I'm being somehow expected to be one, and validated for playing a douchebag Fiona in TFTB, with the options she's given, but a douchebag Rhys is a punchline and an 'evil character'. That, I don't like.
Did I say sociopath? No. Did I say that you wanted to control Telltale? No. It just REALLY seems like you want your PERSONAL issue to be an objective problem with the game.
It's just personal preferences, there's nothing to do about it. I feel somewhat like you, but I just like Rhys more than others. Because no matter how awful Hyperion is, it's interesting. Jack is interesting. And like that, Rhys is interesting. It's very hard to beat all that with a story of some Pandoran natives trying to get rich. It's just Fiona and Sasha got the short end of the stick in this. They just can't compete.
Well, for me the issue isn't that I hate the character... It's that I don't like her very much. I am by no means trying to make the writers … morechange anything, I'm just expressing my opinion.. as long as Rhys is there as a playable protagonist, I'm happy. I'll get through the Fiona segments, even though they're somewhat boring to me. But if there is a 'moral' choice between Jack Rhys and Fiona again... well I know who I'll be choosing.
Okay, first of all she is not 'unlikeable' at least not according to the majority of players, just to you and secondly, why should they even change anything about her?? She is fine the way she is, and they probably intended to make her just like that. Also, you are speaking as if the writers MUST change something, again your own reason.
Sorry for voicing my opinion. But why would I need to say what Telltale should change? They've got a HUGE team of writers; if they want to make an unlikeable character more appreciated, they can probably figure that shit out better than I could.
Comments
Four main characters? I believe you meant 5 since we have our supreme savior Loader Bot.
Oh my God, how could I be so foolish as to forget the great Loader Bot? I'm so sorry, please forgive me.
Hmm... I don't like seeing Rhys get punched in the face, but I can deal with it - in games, you get punched/shot/hurt etc. often. It's just how games work. But when I think about it, I would feel really uncomfortable if Fiona got punched in the face, at least if it happened the way it happens with Rhys - via the Stranger, or Vasquez.
I guess what I'm trying to say is - I'm one of the people who do enjoy the assertive man/ caring woman dichotomy, and while I by no means want it to be the only viable option, I suppose I'd like to have the opportunity to play Fiona as a somewhat nicer character, in addition to her 'whatever' choices, the way the game allows Rhys to be a nice guy or a jerkass.
But you can do that. In almost every scene where you play as her you can be nice - nice to Felix, Sasha, Shade, Vaughn, Rhys, even August. For every "mean" answer we have a neutral one and a nice one. And of course the silence option. We have exactly that for Rhys too. There's no difference. The only thing we can't control is what they do/say to each other when they're with the Captor.
I would still find Fiona annoying if she was male, or female, or a robot, or whatever. I'll keep clarifying this if i have to.
im just glad most of people disagres with you. in that poll about 70% people like fiona. rhys is a better looking and fun carachter but fiona is real cool to. 2 diferents sides of the sam story. i realy like what they have done so far. dont forget we only at 2 episode alot of story still coming, borderlands universe is huge and have alot of potencial.
That's partially why I made this thread. I want Telltale to see it, and reconsider her character a little so that more players appreciate her.
You could've explained what she shoud've been for you to like her. Now that would be interesting. More productive, too.
For some reason there are lots of people crying and raging over female characters lately, be it Mad Max Fury road, The witcher 3, DAI and so on. Btw, I remember many were displeased with Snow too, and for the same reason. They all even use the same words, calling them annoying, egotistical and arrogant and trying to make it look like the devs/writers overdid it in order for them to look badass and as capable as the main heroes.
I've thought about it more, and I think a lot of why I like her but at the same time don't like her is the fact I cannot stand how she acts in the present.
In her story I really like her and her chemistry with other characters, but at the same time I know she's just going to end up bitter and angry. Granted I don't know why she is this way, but I don't think I will be able to fully embrace her character until the way she acts with Rhys and the Stranger is justified in the story or she calms down.
It all came down to the same thing after all. The same thing why people hated on Sasha in ep1.
Well, that's for the writers at Telltale to figure out. Their job, not mine.
I don't entirely know what they could do to make her better, I just know that she sucks a little. I'm not a chef, I just know that their filet mignon tastes like shit, if you catch my drift.
Well with Sasha I knew the reason why she was angry, I understood it and why it was a big part of her character, and still liked her afterwards. With Fiona I have no idea why she is angry. With how I'm playing the story so far, they should be friends, and I guess that's why my lack of knowledge is frustrating me. This anger shouldn't be part of her character as far as I know, but it is, and I can't like her for it.
But this can also change once a legitamate reason comes up.
TT can figure only one thing from that - that you hate her. But that doesn't really mean something's wrong with the character.
It's not only about being angry. It's also about acting on it, rather than being passive-agressive like everyone usually expect them to be.
And isn't it enough to know that she's angry for a good reason? I mean, it's Fiona. She doesn't care that the boys are Hyperion, that they lied and that they're kinda useless. She's rational. With all we know, I think we can safely assume that Rhys screwed up big tim and they didn't get the money.
Sorry, I didn't know you were making the distinction between acting and being passive-agressive, but either way it's the anger I'm focusing on.
At least for me I can't sympathize with her anger until I have a reason to. I'm sure Rhys did screw them over at some point, but I don't know that for sure or what circumstances surround that. It's just how I feel. But I still like her character in the story.
I think the reason is that they're stuck with each other because Gortys can "work" only with them both around. If it were me, I would've been pretty pissed. Even if I liked Rhys but the mere idea of needing to stick with someone no matter what is enough to kill any positive feelings or friendsip. I mean, it's not even a choice at this point, because Gortys and the Vault was their only chance to get, well, money. They both wanted it, needed it. And now the question is, why Rhys was talking about some property on one of the Edens while Fiona doesn't really seems to be rich(er). And there's also the pic in ep5 preview screen where they fight each other.
Look at the poll. 26% of the people who voted had negative/indifferent reactions to Fiona. That's pretty bad.
And there is something wrong with me not liking Fiona. I don't love to hate her, I just don't like her. It's bad writing on their part if a central character has no charm for an entire fourth of the audience, no matter how you spin it.
If I made this poll on the Sam and Max forums for the two freelance police, I'd get destroyed. If I did this for Bigby Wolf, I'd have my throat verbally torn out. If I did a poll like this for Clementine or Lee? God help me. But look at how many people agree with me here. You wouldn't get that on a poll for any other main Telltale character, and I think that means they did something wrong.
Do we, though? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that I, personally, haven't felt like any of the options we got with Fiona were really friendly... It might be the way her lines are delivered, or it might be the fact the whole relationship between the girls and the boys started with Fiona and Sasha trying to kill them (and that being presented as a joke... haha...). It just feels weird to me.
Now, I don't want to come off as sexist, that is the last thing I want. I'm a girl. I want badass females in games. But I, personally, don't feel that Fiona is fulfilling that need, for me. She's rude. I don't like to be rude. Maybe it's as simple as that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I know. But being annoyed with someone is different than actively being antagonistic with that person. And I'm sure there is probably some reason they are fighting, especially given that Episode 5 title card, it's just the not knowing of why they are fighting. Once all the vagueness is cleared up I'm sure I'll fully like Fiona again.
The queston is, if they even intended her to be likeable? So much that everyone should've liked her? I really doubt it. And I'm pretty sure there are tons of people who didn't like, say, Furiosa but that doesn't mean that writers did something wrong. They wanted to portrait a badass stoic and confident character, they did it. They can't be responsible for your feelings. Hate them or love them - they're still there, playing their roles.
I saw people hating on Show and talking so much sh-t about her that I find it very hard to believe it. And she's one of the main characters too. In a sense, she's almost like Fiona and the only difference - she's not a playable character.
I know nothing about Sam and Max, but I'm quite aware of how people can hate characters because of Dragon Age fandom. You can find haters anywhere, for every character. But you can find tons of fans as well. It proves nothing.
Well, if that's the case, then they did a great job at making a character that's disliked by the audience in a sense that doesn't benefit the story.
Well, in this case, I'd say the difference is in the 'playable character' part. You can have all sorts of npc characters around in a game - loved, hated, ambiguous characters. But having a playable character that is disliked by a significant part of the player base is an issue... especially when you're expected to identify with that character to an extent. That's where dialogue options come in - you should have various ones, so that you can choose how you want to play your character. I feel that's where Fiona fails as one, as her characterization only ever goes in one direction. That denies the player the choice, and can very well make them dislike the character.
I dunno, I was really friendly with everyone. With Shade. And Scooter. And Rhys. It was adorable to call the boys our friends and seeing Rhys' awkward reaction.
Actually, I really liked her moments with Vaughn. Depending on the lines you choose, it can be really friendly and funny.
Fiona's just... aloof. Distant. She's more reserved than any other character in TftB and rarely shows her emotions, and mostly does that for her family - and that's only Felix and Sasha. In ep2 it's only Sasha. I think it's the part of the job and part of living on Pandora. And also being a big sister. It makes sense for her being more serious and careful around people than even Sasha, despite them both being con artists.
I want to clear that out - that reaction that we have is not entitled to the gender. And it doesn't really make us sexists. I'm saying us because I know that feeling and I've been there as I'm also a girl. Everyone expects female characters to be nice by default, to be humane, to be merciful. To forgive people. It's hard to accept the can be just as mean, rough and stern. It's like they can't just be like that, they need a solid reason and justifications for such rude behavior. And while I'm myself don't like to be a douche in games when given a choice, but I think everyone has right to be angry and to express it.
It's a personal issue, writers don't really need to appease a small negative minority.
This is all subjectivity and it's starting to seem like you guys are trying to make your negative opinions an objective problem with the game.
I don't think it's that big of an issue. I have limited examples of games where we have more than 1 protagonist but... I know you just can't make them all likeable in a sense where almost everyone will like them evenly. I can remember broken age, dreamfall chapters, pathologic and can't think of other examples now, my bad. I'm sure there's more but it's 2:30am for me xD. And even so, I only found both pcs equally interesting in broken age. In other two someone's always better in a sense that I personaly like him/her better. It's often inevitable.
I do agree with what you're saying about female characters in general. My issue lies with how Fiona is presented. I feel that her writers were aware of the issues with many female chars in games, and tried to compensate for them.. too much. She ended up having mostly dismissive, badass options,and few kind, compassionate ones. She (and Sasha) is allowed to be rude where the male characters aren't... or at least the guys are treated as 'bad' for taking the rude options, while the girls aren't.
I said before, I like playing a jerkass. I like playing a female jerkass, like renegade Shepard. But I never felt like the game was treating me differently for being a mean girl in ME. It does feel like I'm being somehow expected to be one, and validated for playing a douchebag Fiona in TFTB, with the options she's given, but a douchebag Rhys is a punchline and an 'evil character'. That, I don't like.
Sorry for voicing my opinion. But why would I need to say what Telltale should change? They've got a HUGE team of writers; if they want to make an unlikeable character more appreciated, they can probably figure that shit out better than I could.
Wow okay.. so telltale should completely change their character so it can please YOU? But you yourself don't even know what you would like about her. I'm sorry I just don't see the point of this thread and all other than that you want everyone to know how much you hate Fiona.
A fourth of the players isn't the vast minority, and I do think that such a large amount of similar negative opinions does weigh heavily on the quality of the game.
Telltale likes to listen to our opinions for the story's sake, and I think this is a situation where they should consider them.
EDIT: Typo, sorry.
Well, for me the issue isn't that I hate the character... It's that I don't like her very much. I am by no means trying to make the writers change anything, I'm just expressing my opinion.. as long as Rhys is there as a playable protagonist, I'm happy. I'll get through the Fiona segments, even though they're somewhat boring to me. But if there is a 'moral' choice between
JackRhys and Fiona again... well I know who I'll be choosing..........didn't you start out this thread by saying YOUR OPINION was UNPOPULAR?
Which means that LIKING FIONA is the POPULAR consensus.
Now you're just being manipulative. This is your personal issue, not really the game's.
Typo. I meant "vast minority", not minority. There are less of us, but it's still a sizeable chunk of the fanbase.
But yeah, this is all part of some ulterior motive to control Telltale. I'm real manipulative and all that, good job. Now, can we avoid the personal attacks? You don't need to accuse me of being a super-manipulative sociopath or whatever just because I want Telltale to change a character.
Can we drop the personal attacks? I was hoping you guys would be mature enough to be civil here, and the thread was starting off pretty well, but I've been accused of being manipulative, sexist, selfish... Man, all I'm saying is that I don't like Fiona and that Telltale should consider our opinions in their later episodes. To be honest, it's kind of funny to watch people get so riled up over this, but I don't want this thread to get derailed. Let's bring things down a notch.
Did I say sociopath? No. Did I say that you wanted to control Telltale? No. It just REALLY seems like you want your PERSONAL issue to be an objective problem with the game.
I think both Rhys and Fiona are just bound to their roles. Fiona is a badass, Rhys is a clown. Btw, Rhys is punched no matter what he says half of the times, but that's not because he's an asshole but because Vasquez is an asshole. There's two sides of it here - making him (Rhys) look like a clown and making Hugo look like a douche he is.
I don't think it's much of a personal issue if a fourth of the fanbase agrees with me.
It's a personal issue with the fourth of the fanbase.
Don't try to make your negative opinions objective.
It's just personal preferences, there's nothing to do about it. I feel somewhat like you, but I just like Rhys more than others. Because no matter how awful Hyperion is, it's interesting. Jack is interesting. And like that, Rhys is interesting. It's very hard to beat all that with a story of some Pandoran natives trying to get rich. It's just Fiona and Sasha got the short end of the stick in this. They just can't compete.
Okay, first of all she is not 'unlikeable' at least not according to the majority of players, just to you and secondly, why should they even change anything about her?? She is fine the way she is, and they probably intended to make her just like that. Also, you are speaking as if the writers MUST change something, again your own reason.