What do you think of the direction Fiona's character is taking?
I won't lie; I've been very 'meh' on Fiona. However, one aspect I liked was the idea that she was a normal bystander in the events going on in Pandora and, as Felix said, better off talking her way out of a situation rather than fighting her way out. To quote, "We're not Vault Hunters." That's not to say Fiona is physically inept, but rather she's better off running away from a battle rather than going in guns blazing.
This was even shown in her gameplay mechanic where she had to carefully manage supplies and money as she wouldn't be able to find another bullet to fit her gun easily or restore which elemental effect she used.
That changes when Athena forces Fiona go fight a man-eating plant monster, hands her lots of bullets, fixes the elemental burnout and Athena tells her to apply her combat abilities into predicting combat moves. This change felt really sudden to me, even as Fiona rebuttals Athena's attempts. (The 'explanation' in how Fiona becomes a competent combatant is the implication that Athena has been training Fiona and Sasha throughout the beginning montage, but based on the context and dialogue, it seems more like Fiona is suddenly learning everything right then and there).
I read a paragraph over at Destructoid that said it best.
http://www.destructoid.com/review-tales-from-the-borderlands-catch-a-ride-294552.phtml
Fiona also goes through some questionable design territory with her abilities. Where her sleeve gun was previously limited, providing the possibility for interesting choices, its power is unlocked in the episode. It nullifies the opportunity cost that piqued my interest in Atlas Mugged; when I spent that incendiary bullet singing Finch's hair off in the second episode, I thought that would be the last time.
Now it almost feels like Telltale is trying to set Fiona up to be a proper Vault Hunter in Borderlands 3. While on the one hand it will definitely be cool to see Telltale's original characters in Gearbox's next effort in the main series, it would detract from her uniqueness as a smooth-talking con artist were she to become another gunslinging badass.
So, where I stand, I didn't much care for the changes. (To be fair, it is possible that Telltale might have had to have made a change in the script and didn't plan this far ahead or that Borderlands wanted Fiona as a BL3 character and thus adjustments to her character was made).
What did you think?
Comments
This pretty much nailed it, actually. I'm not sure whether I'm for or against it.
I think it's kinda cool. At this point I'm feeling confident that Fiona will become a playable Vault Hunter in Borderlands 3
I like Fiona's new direction personally. It doesn't really detract from her ability to smooth-talk her way out of situations but it does give her a solid plan B. From a narrative standpoint, we have had two main characters who both needed to approach problems in very similar indirect ways. I think having Fiona start doing things the Pandoran way would create a nice contrast between the two main characters and their respective worlds along with clearly distinct gameplay.
As a purely speculative view, i think Fiona's newly aquired taste for badassery and vault hunting will serve to drive a wedge between her and Sasha. Sasha, while being a bit of a badass herself, doesn't actually want to be on Pandora nor has she shown any predisposition for violence. She's just been doing whats necessary to survive. By choosing to be a vault hunter Fiona would also be choosing a violent and dangerous life mainly because she's found out she LIKES her life like that.
...And honestly, i really wouldn't mind see Fiona as a playable VH in BL3
I like where she's currently going, as even if she's becoming a Vault Hunter she isn't going to be like any of the ones we have, who use turrets or holograms, or mystical powers or a fist the size of your head to explode enemies into bloody giblets and loot. Her "Action Skill," so to speak, is her mind (No, not like the Sirens) where she thinks the battle through first and anticipates her enemy's moves. Like when things went all slowmo and we had a choice of which way to take down that huge plant? That. I like that. We haven't had that in Borderlands before and it's nice to see a character be a badass using her brain rather than just a gun.
I like it, personally. All the current Vault Hunters were normal people once, right? You don't get born a badass. So it's pretty great seeing someone trained and moulded to knock heads with the elite. Fiona was already pretty handy in combat, using the environment or situation to her adventage. I'm sure they could translate into Borderlands 3 if they wanted to. Out of all the protags, Fiona and Sasha make the most sense to become Vault Hunters. Tbh, as the situation becomes more dangerous, all of them need to become better at combat to survive. Rhys can fall back on HJ using his cybernetics to hack stuff, but Fiona doesn't have that. And she can't talk her way out of every situation, even though it's great to see when she can.
I personally think it's cool, even if she won't turn into a proper Vault hunter (or a pc in BL3) there's nothing wrong with her ep3 development. At least it's all explained and planned because we had Timothy and the situation also forced him to be a Vault hunter and it didn't feel like there's something wrong with it. At least Fiona's Pandoran native, and already kind of a badass, even if she didn't fight that much she already have certain qualities that will help her to become a VH.
Well, when she started off in the game, she appeared to only want the money. Now, she's interested in getting to Vaults full of treasures. So, in terms of motivation, I think she's made a large but not unusual leap that is still consistent with her character. Regarding her new fighting abilities, I think it's a natural progression that doesn't detract from or neuter her other skills. Yes, she now has a sleeve-gun with essentially limitless ammo, but I bet that her gameplay will still be geared towards conversation, since it is a Telltale Game. The new gun just means that she can defend herself better in situations where words are useless (for example, her smooth-talking would've been no good against a pack of those killer plants). And remember, it is only a sleeve-gun, so there is no way that she can just go Rambo throughout the game. Talking will be her first-call, gunslinging as the back-up
Well, Sirens do get born as badasses basically. And hell, who knows, wasn't there a rumour going round a while back that Rhys may be a male siren? If that turns out to be true, he would be elligible for being a Vault Hunter too.
I especially liked what they did to her character in Episode 3. In the previous two episodes, I don't want to say that I didn't like playing as her, but it was far less enjoyable then playing as Rhys. She had always been a very calm and collected character, taking every situation seriously and was overflowing with confidence that she could smooth talk her way out of everything or get what she wants. That's not a bad thing, but compared to Rhys, who had plenty of humorous choices and situations, such as whenever he can use the ECHO-eye, she felt kind of boring. In Episode 3, she started showing a more easy going and even playful attitude, which is a big reason why I enjoyed playing as Fiona more in Episode 3 than I did Rhys. I especially liked her bonding moments with Athena when she's teaching her how to become a VH and how she expresses doubt over being one, how her only ability is talking to people untill they get confused. I thought this was a great moment, before Fiona showed more of a "I can do this" mentality, that there wasn't any sort of situation she couldn't get out of, here, she shows doubt over her own abilities and, for the first time, thinks "I can't do this." We're seeing her in this position of uncertainty and doubt over her own abilities and other people's expectations, which was something I didn't expect to see from her and I really enjoyed it.
I hope BL 3 will be a MMO with alot of vault hunters, they have the world to do it, now they have the story, i think its very possible that some characters from tales will apper on BL3. i hope so.
Problem is, even if it would be cool to have her as a playable character in BL3, I really really really really fear TTG has to plan the death of Sasha so that Fiona is totally severed from her old grifter life and turned into a new Vault Hunter life. The death of Sasha would achieve what was started by Athena...
(I'm a big Sasha fan, I like the character a lot, btw).
You know when Athena was mentoring Fiona on all that stuff, I couldn't help being reminded of Jane with Clementine in Episode 4 of TWDG with the whole training thing, and it was actually done a lot better here, even with Athena mentioning the dead sister....thank god they didn't find a nail file [weeps] I can't, not again, no more playgrounds.
I didn't mind the direction it took with Fiona's training, and I could see Fiona becoming a Vault Hunter in the future with enough time. The thing with the gun though just seemed like they were addressing what Athena brings up, in that walking around Pandora with just a single bullet sleeve pistol for protection against bandits and scary animals and plants that want to eat your face off is a really, really bad idea. So when Athena made another upgrade and handed her a whole pack of bullets I was happy as a bee because it's a step up and the whole new puzzle that comes with the weapon now in trying to use the elemental bullets to get the job done mixes things up.
It's kinda what MetallicaRules said a little bit though. At least for me it was the first episode that there wasn't nothing much about Fiona's character that stood out to me, but when Episode 2 kicked off in with the sisters going back to safehouse and looking through Felix's stuff and then with much with what happens within this episode as well, I've really been liking what they're doing with her [and her funny lines too XP] so I can say right now I'm happy with what they're going with Fiona as person, and as a possible vault hunter in the future if that's what her character becomes. I just hope they don't do what Capcom are terrible for with Resident Evil characters where they become so badass and experienced, they become dull hero who lacks character ;_;
It doesn't necessary have to be that way tho. I think TTG or gearbox can come up with other ideas other than just killing off pc's sisters all the time.
The funny thing is both episodes were written by Eric Stirpe.
Honestly I didn't even have to know that, and I could tell XP
Indeed, I totally agree. I was saying that because I'm affraid of it happening and it would seem "logical", but yeah hopefully they find something else totally nice and that doesn't go the "Game-of-thrones" route...
As someone who saved my bullet specifically because I thought it would better serve me in the future (and who similarly deliberated over which element to use for the same reason), I was a little bit taken aback by Athena suddenly removing the limitations of my weapon. But in my mind it's par for the course - "not needing the bullet" is just another possible outcome that carries the same wait as "needing it to save X person" - it's just a risk you take.
Similarly, in my canon playthrough I am inexplicably saving my cash, even though everything so far indicates that the only money options will involve purely aesthetic purchases and not "game changing" moments - but I'm still saving that money, because the fact that it could help me is still a possibility. I can't get mad at Telltale if that option doesn't appear in the game, because "nothing/you wasting the money" is an option in itself (the "silent" option if you will), and we all know that it's equally valid.
As for Fiona's Vault Hunting potential, prior to ep 3 I was 100% against it, but ep 3 has definitely won me over. I think Athena summed it up best when she said that you can't choose your talents and that she would have never chosen her shield, but she makes it work to survive. It made me think more about the individual Vault Hunters, and with the exception of The Sirens (and maybe Zer0 because God knows what's going on there), they are just 'normal' people, working with what they've got, honing their talents, and trying to survive one day at a time.
And if the developers of BL3 can work with what they've got (AKA Fiona's backstory) and manage to transform this whole "see before you act" thing into a user-friendly gameplay mechanic, then I am wholeheartedly onboard.
My guess for 'saving the cash' is the idea that there's this super cool cosmetic item/costume that costs ALL of the findable money and you can only unlock it by saving up your cash. So when you buy that money and it shows up in the end poll, it's an indicator that you saved up your money throughout all the episodes.
Sirens are born with powers, but they have to learn how to use them and survive. Also, I would put down a considerable amount of money that rhys is not a siren.
The translation from BL actual games and TFTB is interesting. In tales, athena makes it pretty clear she doesn't actually use guns, just her sword and shield. Zero does use a gun, but he makes very limited use of it. It's clear he fights almost exclusively with his cloak and sword. Brick doesn't even HAVE a gun on him, but mordecai being all about sniping uses nothing but guns (bloodwing too, were it still alive). Lilith always uses just her powers.
Point is, the gun gameplay in borderlands games isn't necessarily 100% canon, in a way. I find it entirely feasible fiona could turn into a proper vault hunter, maybe even one we play that uses guns. Though her skill trees could somehow revolve around her actual talents and abilities.
Felix says she could always talk her way out of more situations than she could shoot out of, but you can't talk out of EVERYTHING. When you need that ability to fight, you REALLY need it. I can't imagine quickly how her apparently abilities could translate to gameplay, but I bet people could come up with some good ideas.
I'm a little bit torn actually. On one hand I enjoyed playing as Fiona in episode 3 much more than I did in earlier episodes (earlier I found her kind of meh). On the other hand I agree that the change from con artist to "Vault Hunter" is rather sudden. I'm not saying that she can't eventually become a Vault Hunter, I'm just saying that her transition from one to other should have taken more than half an episode.
Has her transition really only been one episode though? I mean, I guess you can count the fact that she was thrown from a life of crime into an action packed race for the money in Episode 1 the beginning of her transition. Episode 3 might just be where it's becoming clear.
I deeply hope it doesn't become a MMO.
None of their transitions popped up in episode 3. They've all been learning to fight and survive on screen since the beginning of the game.
I guess it depends on the way you look at it. For me it seemd that in episode 1 and 2 she depended more on her wits and talking her way out of tough situations, only using her gun when it's necessary. In episode 3 she seems to depend more on her strenght and firepower. It's like you started playing a rogue character in an RPG and then suddenly that rouge changed to a warrior. It's not a bad thing, and in this case I rather enjoy the change, it just seemed to come out of nowhere.
Well, yeah, but from Maya's back story, it sounds like she managed to learn her powers fairly easily. Not to mention, it's implied Angel killed Jack's wife by accident with her powers, so it sounds like that while training is required, it does sound like it's something Sirens can master by the time they're adults, so it doesn't seem like it's something that takes much time to know how to use, unlike say most of the other abilities Vault Hunters possess.
Also, Rhys being a siren is something that I doubt will happen too. I don't think Sirens have even been mentioned atall in the 3 episodes, but I remember hearing theories about it, like how his siren arm is his robot arm, and he has blue tattoos on his chest. Have we even got an explanation about Rhys's cybernetics yet?
i think it is cool that fiona can be a bit more action orientated, i mean even rhys is quite action orientated (in a will smith in men in black kind of way) she is way more athletic than i expected though, but that is still cool, and did anybody else think she lightened up a bit this episode, a bit less stern and a bit more goofy
I think pretty much all of the Vault hunters are going to be in Borderlands 3 ''You'll need all the Vault Hunters you can get''
Pretty sure everyone uses guns when necessary on Pandora. Athena and Brick just prefer melee when possible because of their training backgrounds. You can't really function in an enviroment as saturated with firearms and people willing to use them as Pandora is if you don't have the option to shoot back at all. Don't know what my point was saying that, but i felt it needed to be said
He has an agenda at this point lol
I'll be more than happy, if Fiona will become a playable character in BL 3. She's a badass, but kind of in her own way, not as other Vault Hunters. She's not as tough, but she can adapt to the environment, like in the Atlas facility (I'm judging only by the outcome of trusting Fiona) or when she had to escape from Finch and Kroger. She even stood up in a fight to Mordeai and Brick and I think that's pretty admirable and unexpected from a con-artist.
For me she's still not even near a Vault Hunter, but I guess It'll change in the next episodes. Maybe we as players will have a final word in deciding on Fiona's fate: to become a Vault Hunter and stay on Pandora, or leave with Sasha to continue being a con-artist? Then Fiona won't become a playable character, but will have a cameo in BL3... I dunno, just thinking out loud here.
To sum up, I'm thrilled to see what TTG will make her do in the next episodes and I think it would be really interesting and unusual (especially in a shooter which is Borderlands) to see her skills, like smooth-talking her way out of the situation, thinking through her actions in a battle and possible consequences beforehand, rather than just gunning around.
Perhaps. Relying on and using on occasion are two different things though, and what Athena said caught my ear. Her talking about how it wasn't her choice to rely on a shield for protection. Clearly she wasn't trained in gun use, and apparently never bothered to learn.
If the situation she was in wasn't good enough for guns, nothing is. I don't think she actually uses them.
The direction that leads into Rhys's arms
ayyy
I loved this episode. Part of what I loved about it was that finally Fiona started to feel like an actual character that could compete for my affections with the rest, I loved that we got to see her doubt herself - it made her seem more human. I think we also saw how she can be a little goofy and playful as well, and I really liked that, she felt a little too serious the first two episodes for me. As for her potentially becoming a VH, I'm not really sure how I feel about that.
On the one hand it would be really cool to see a character go through that arc of starting as a normal, mundane person and becoming a VH, since we've never really seen that in such a story/character driven way before. But I wouldn't want it to be done just because, in such a way that doesn't make sense or seem convincing - and I don't know if TT can pull that off in the two remaining episodes that we have? Surely if this was what they were going to do, it would've been better to assert that early on rather than half-way through? Also, I'd be worried about Fiona losing what makes her interesting and original if she were to become just another mercenary.
In addition, I think part of this game's charm is that none of the main characters are fighters, that they're just barely scraping through all of this stuff they've gotten themselves caught up in, and they're in way over their heads. If Fiona or any of the others were to become a VH, that might just detract from how interesting and refreshing it is to see how regular people deal with all the shit that goes down on Pandora.
That, and the respawn stations. At least for the respawn stations it was said in an official way I think during some interview or was it an ama or something else, can't remember.
Sorry I can't find it again, but I've read that in a promotional "official" pic of Fiona, it is somehow said, well something along the lines of :
"If Fiona becomes a VH in BL3 then her action skill will revolve around her Derringer"
EDIT : oh wait no I was wrong, it wasn't about her action skill, it's about her skill tree (that said if it's the whole tree, it means the action skill no ?) : first comment in that thread :
She's shown holding a firearm in the TPS 'hand drawn' intro pics so i'm pretty sure she uses guns. She isn't an idiot. Lance Assassins do use two plasma blades as primary weapons but a) they operated in squads and b)Had the backing of Atlas to keep their protective equipment working. Athena has neither. Plus i seriously doubt the Assassins wouldn't have been trained to be proficent with firearms as it gives more options.
I think the main reason the fight in ep3 went down as it did was the same one why important people in firefights are rarely seen with helmets on or using the most practical methods: The rule of cool.
Edit: Just to clarify that i agree that she doesn't rely on guns. Her training would indeed make her more comfortable in melee combat.