It does matter. This is our story, and we shouldn't have it taken away from us to please those who play the main games.
What about all those of us that play both ?
Because see there are NOT 2 populations of players, those that play BL games and those that play TFTB, there are 3 since you need to include those that play both.
I desperately want our actions to affect his personality and actions. Otherwise, what's the point of ending Episode Three with him upset wi… moreth us, angry at us, neutral, or our friend?
It does matter. This is our story, and we shouldn't have it taken away from us to please those who play the main games.
What about the people who play both? That's not really relevant to the argument I'm making. The people who play both are not the ones who will suffer the most, though even they will have to deal with the Tales story and its characters possibly being just a stepping stone.
It does matter. This is our story, and we shouldn't have it taken away from us to please those who play the main games.
What about a… morell those of us that play both ?
Because see there are NOT 2 populations of players, those that play BL games and those that play TFTB, there are 3 since you need to include those that play both.
I really would like Tales to be integrated fully into the Borderlands universe, rather than just being a spin off title.
It IS fully integrated, they have said it is canon to the franchise and that it will lead to BL3, as well as it is closing loops that were left opened between TPS gameplay that happens before BL2 and TPS narration of the story that happens after BL2.
I think Jack is going to hang around the franchise indefinetly. If BL3 and future games are smart though, they'll definetly not make him the… more centre focus whatsoever. I don't know if this means he'll permantely be dead, program or flesh wise, or whether his presence remains by picking up old ECHO logs about him, but I think Jack is going to hang around regardless in minor ways. Hell his body double is still alive, and I'd be very surprised if he was killed off.
It is a valid point about BL3 essentially dictating what the "canon" ending for Tales would be if Tales characters appeared, especially one who is playable. So I guess that would be kinda bad, but at the same time, I really would like Tales to be integrated fully into the Borderlands universe, rather than just being a spin off title. Honestly, I can't say either option bothers me that much, especially since it's not like they have to contradict much of Tales to begin with. I mean, se… [view original content]
Suffer ? We're not going to suffer anything, there is a story and there are parts of it, whether we want it or not, that happen regardless of our choices. If you accept that this or that event happens no matter what, be it Vazquez death, Athena being captured, and so on and so forth, on which you have no control, I don't see what's difficult about other cornerstones of the Borderlands universe.
We do have some choices to make, here and there, but it's certainly not our prerogative to decide what's going to happen in the main timeline of the franchise, about major plots or major characters.
What about the people who play both? That's not really relevant to the argument I'm making. The people who play both are not the ones who … morewill suffer the most, though even they will have to deal with the Tales story and its characters possibly being just a stepping stone.
I couldn't say, but what I know is that it's been official since a long time that TFTB is canon to the Borderlands franchise and that some events and characters of the RPG shooters have echoes in TFTB, while what happens in TFTB will have echoes in BL3.
I mean you should be happy : TFTB is actually shaping the future of the franchise.
A lot of people play this games to make their own story. TTG has repeatedly made mistakes and hurt their stories by having our choices not matter, but in many ways, this is worse. They could take any of the Tales characters and ignore who and what we made them, as well as the relationships we've built with those around them. They could continue their story in a game a lot of us won't be able to play, in a way that a lot of us are not interested in. I'd consider that suffering.
Suffer ? We're not going to suffer anything, there is a story and there are parts of it, whether we want it or not, that happen regardless o… moref our choices. If you accept that this or that event happens no matter what, be it Vazquez death, Athena being captured, and so on and so forth, on which you have no control, I don't see what's difficult about other cornerstones of the Borderlands universe.
We do have some choices to make, here and there, but it's certainly not our prerogative to decide what's going to happen in the main timeline of the franchise, about major plots or major characters.
I've explained why multiple times. WE are making Rhys and Fiona. And for what? So they can just be taken away and put in Borderlands 3 with whatever characteristics and relationships Gearbox wants them to have? So their story can be explored in a game a lot of people can't or don't want to play? That's not what I signed up for.
I think if we look closely, not sure about ep 1, but i'm sure of it in ep 2 you can see the floating names of some planets in the vault map, I think right after the "pushing". I think... Well there is a moment, I can't remember where, where we can clearly read a few names, maybe Promethea is one of them ?
There are points in the story that are important to you and you'd like to have control over them.
What YOU don't understand is that there are already MANY events in the story, and no matter what TTG game you play, in which you do NOT have control over, that you will NEVER have control over, they WILL happen regardless if that game is tied to another franchise or not.
Let me tell you this thing : if you were playing TFTB and didn't know it was inside a franchise, you wouldn't have created this thread. In fact it's the prior knowledge (a spoiler of sort) that TFTB is en episode set between other games that have you on this crusade right now.
It is impossible, whether the game is part of another story or not, to have all choices have weight and thus not have parts that are predestined. There will ALWAYS be parts that are predestined and you have no control over, again : Vasquez death, Athena's capture, one of those thug that ends up having his face burnt, and so many others...
WHETHER OR NOT you have prior knowledge if the game is inside another saga, or not.
So why focus on Jack ?
And moreso why suffer ?
Again, there are 3 different populations of players in the Borderlands franchise, those that only played the RPG-shooters, those that will only play TFTB and those that play both. In the grand scheme of things none of those 3 populations should have a say on what happens or what doesn't happen and why. It's GBX and TTG decisions. And there's only one franchise.
You don't seem to understand-that's my point.
A lot of people play this games to make their own story. TTG has repeatedly made mistakes … moreand hurt their stories by having our choices not matter, but in many ways, this is worse. They could take any of the Tales characters and ignore who and what we made them, as well as the relationships we've built with those around them. They could continue their story in a game a lot of us won't be able to play, in a way that a lot of us are not interested in. I'd consider that suffering.
That's one of TTG's biggest flaws. Too many things happen regardless of your choices. But we're still supposed to be building these characters and their relationships. There are a lot of things that could be done with them, but because of this plan for the game to lead into Borderlands 3, most of those possibilities can potentially be wasted. It's going to suck for me if the whole point of Jack's existence in this game is just to find a way to get him into the main series again. I'm not sure you really do understand what I'm saying here, especially if you think I'm on a "crusade". Tales and the main series are two very different genres. One is like an interactive visual novel, while the other is a first-person shooter.
I can assure you I understand.
There are points in the story that are important to you and you'd like to have control over them.
What … moreYOU don't understand is that there are already MANY events in the story, and no matter what TTG game you play, in which you do NOT have control over, that you will NEVER have control over, they WILL happen regardless if that game is tied to another franchise or not.
Let me tell you this thing : if you were playing TFTB and didn't know it was inside a franchise, you wouldn't have created this thread. In fact it's the prior knowledge (a spoiler of sort) that TFTB is en episode set between other games that have you on this crusade right now.
It is impossible, whether the game is part of another story or not, to have all choices have weight and thus not have parts that are predestined. There will ALWAYS be parts that are predestined and you have no control over, again : Vasquez death, Athena's capture, … [view original content]
Honestly I'm not to sure what to say really, I'd figure most people who picked this up have played and at some level enjoyed the Borderlands games so I'm taken aback that you don't think seeing familiar faces and interacting with them is a good thing. While I do like this new cast that we've come to know, this story would just be mediocre w/o the faces most people know from the previous games. I know that sounds shallow but has there really been any successful TellTale game made that didn't use characters from the series it was portraying? None I can think of.
Even though you may not play the next Borderlands game, you outta be happy to see their stories continue in one fashion or another, whether they're playable, NPCs, or just some easter egg quest. I felt the same when I was playing Borderlands 2 myself when I encountered the old vault hunters and realized they had their own stories unfolding from before the game and during it too, and I'm happy to see them back in this continuing with their stories. Even though I may not be playing as them and shaping/directing everything they were doing, it was and is nice to see the characters living their own lives.
So while we don't know how this will end yet, regardless if you or I play the next, for me if Rhys and Fiona reappear there I'll be happy. I'm sorry that you don't like that and really I don't understand how you think this series could have been successful at all w/o old faces coming back, but I think you should try taking a step back and maybe look at this more selflessly.
One way or another you'll always have this game and this slice of these characters lives, so if they do appear in the next game which you may or may not play, don't worry about because you'll always have this game and story to come back to.
That's kind of my concern too. I'm fed up with our choices not mattering.
We don't know how this story will end, and for me, doing somet… morehing like that with one of the main characters will not be closure. I actually hate all the cameos in general. I feel it hurts the story rather than enriches it, especially for non-Borderlands players. But I definitely feel like something is being taken away from us. I don't want Tales to just be used to set up a story that quite a bit of us might not be able to play.
It is what you signed up for. They said before it was released that it sets BL3 up. Would you rather them just say this game is uncanon? That would be even worse.
I've explained why multiple times. WE are making Rhys and Fiona. And for what? So they can just be taken away and put in Borderlands 3 wi… moreth whatever characteristics and relationships Gearbox wants them to have? So their story can be explored in a game a lot of people can't or don't want to play? That's not what I signed up for.
I'd rather it be set in its own continuity, as is usually the case in these kinds of situations. But it's definitely not what I signed up for. I'd never heard anything about the game leading into Borderlands 3 until recently.
It is what you signed up for. They said before it was released that it sets BL3 up. Would you rather them just say this game is uncanon? That would be even worse.
It's not that cameos are bad things on their own. They're good...if you've played the main Borderlands games. But as someone who initially went into this with no knowledge of the series, the effect was very different. I adored Zer0, and I couldn't wait to see him again in Episode Two and what his role in the story would be. Then I come on here and learn he was a cameo and probably won't appear again. Even if he does, it's unlikely he won't have a big role in the story like I'd originally thought. And people who have no knowledge of the Pre-Sequel are probably expecting to learn about what happened to Athena-maybe even rescue her and beat up the guys that took her. But that's unlikely to happen. There's also the fact that they've been bringing in so many cameos, they're not really introducing and developing a lot of new characters.
Their stories continuing is an issue because they are characters we created. My Rhys is a nice guy who has good relationships with the people around him. Other people play him as selfish or mean. There's no way they could continue Rhys' story without messing up his characterization. And what about the characters in this game? I would like to see their stories developed in THIS game without it just being used as a stepping stone to have them in Borderlands 3.
Honestly I'm not to sure what to say really, I'd figure most people who picked this up have played and at some level enjoyed the Borderlands… more games so I'm taken aback that you don't think seeing familiar faces and interacting with them is a good thing. While I do like this new cast that we've come to know, this story would just be mediocre w/o the faces most people know from the previous games. I know that sounds shallow but has there really been any successful TellTale game made that didn't use characters from the series it was portraying? None I can think of.
Even though you may not play the next Borderlands game, you outta be happy to see their stories continue in one fashion or another, whether they're playable, NPCs, or just some easter egg quest. I felt the same when I was playing Borderlands 2 myself when I encountered the old vault hunters and realized they had their own stories unfolding from before the game and during it too, and … [view original content]
It cant be. We already had important interactions with major BL characters. When you played this, you were playing by the rules Gearbox set, which is that this is canon, Like when you set into a government building you have to follow their rules whether you want to or not.
I've explained why multiple times. WE are making Rhys and Fiona. And for what? So they can just be taken away and put in Borderlands 3 wi… moreth whatever characteristics and relationships Gearbox wants them to have? So their story can be explored in a game a lot of people can't or don't want to play? That's not what I signed up for.
So their story can be explored in a game a lot of people can't or don't want to play? That's not what I signed up for.
How does people not wanting to or not being able to play affect you?
I'd be fine if Tales didn't end up suffering as a result. I could live with the connections being related to the fact that that vault is open. Or if they brought Jack back by finding another AI or copying ours.
I couldn't say, but what I know is that it's been official since a long time that TFTB is canon to the Borderlands franchise and that some e… morevents and characters of the RPG shooters have echoes in TFTB, while what happens in TFTB will have echoes in BL3.
I mean you should be happy : TFTB is actually shaping the future of the franchise.
It cant be. We already had important interactions with major BL characters. When you played this, you were playing by the rules Gearbox set,… more which is that this is canon, Like when you set into a government building you have to follow their rules whether you want to or not.
I see that as the player's fault then if they come into this game w/o playing the others and being upset about not knowing story details or wanting more from a character but only getting 5 minutes of them here. That's on you to seek that information, you can either play the game, watch some videos, or hit the wikis to get caught up on anything this doesn't explain and that's more than fair.
This game/story is focusing on this Gortys Project and trying to make you care about whole new characters, it does not have the time to explain ten different subplots. I have no sympathy for players not willing to seek-out that extra bit of information when it is so easy to get in multiple ways. Don't like Borderlands cause it's an FPS RPG? Hit up it's wiki then, don't want to do that? Too bad.
It's not an issue at all when it's a whole different game and especially when you don't even know the capacity that any character could be used and even if they'll be used! And just like I said earlier, if you don't like it that's why you can always come back to this game and say, "This is the Rhys/Fiona I like and that's how they'll stay to me". And that's not fair to say at all that they would mess up any character's particular characterization, we have no idea what Gearbox will do with them if anything. And overall they've done a wonderful job in the past games of making me care about the characters.
-What happens to Mordecai's bird companion, Roland's sacrifice, the reveal of Jack's daughter and what happens between them, and in the presequel Jack's transformation is really something. And that's just naming a few.
So don't tell me they'll mess it up when they took some smart-ass villain who was funny and charming and made him into one of the best anti-heros I've seen in any game.
And you need to not see this game as a stepping stone or set-up game or you're just going to get more cynical about it's future. It's not those at all, as said before, this game easily stands alone and you can enjoy it as a standalone game w/o getting mixed feelings about a looming game. What you should do, is realize this is probably the only TellTale game of these characters you'll get and enjoy it like you have been before you got worried about all this.
It's not that cameos are bad things on their own. They're good...if you've played the main Borderlands games. But as someone who initially… more went into this with no knowledge of the series, the effect was very different. I adored Zer0, and I couldn't wait to see him again in Episode Two and what his role in the story would be. Then I come on here and learn he was a cameo and probably won't appear again. Even if he does, it's unlikely he won't have a big role in the story like I'd originally thought. And people who have no knowledge of the Pre-Sequel are probably expecting to learn about what happened to Athena-maybe even rescue her and beat up the guys that took her. But that's unlikely to happen. There's also the fact that they've been bringing in so many cameos, they're not really introducing and developing a lot of new characters.
Their stories continuing is an issue because they are characters we created. My Rhys is a nice guy wh… [view original content]
You can't say it's the player's fault. We're supposed to be able to jump into these games without knowledge of the series that they are based on. That's what TTG claims.
You don't seem to understand my point at all. No one should have to deal with the possibility of their story and characters being used like this.
I see that as the player's fault then if they come into this game w/o playing the others and being upset about not knowing story details or … morewanting more from a character but only getting 5 minutes of them here. That's on you to seek that information, you can either play the game, watch some videos, or hit the wikis to get caught up on anything this doesn't explain and that's more than fair.
This game/story is focusing on this Gortys Project and trying to make you care about whole new characters, it does not have the time to explain ten different subplots. I have no sympathy for players not willing to seek-out that extra bit of information when it is so easy to get in multiple ways. Don't like Borderlands cause it's an FPS RPG? Hit up it's wiki then, don't want to do that? Too bad.
It's not an issue at all when it's a whole different game and especially when you don't even know the capacity that any character could be used and even if th… [view original content]
Yes I can for all the reasons I said before, if you want more information; play the previous games, watch videos, or look up the wiki. There is no excuse. And you can come into this game with 0 knowledge and play it through just fine w/o seeking any prior information. The player is simply lazy if they're not willing to seek more when they want more, there's no excuse, especially when this comes from a well established series.
You seem to say the same thing to everyone you argue/debate with in this thread that, "We don't understand". I think you're just not happy with the knowledge of knowing this is a small closed story that will more than likely be pursed in another game you have little to no interest in. You need to come to terms with that and DEAL WITH IT. Unless you've got the money to say otherwise and change things, you've got no control here, like most things in life.
I and others keep throwing the facts at you but you're just not willing to accept anything. Last time I'll say it, you can enjoy this particular enclosed story w/o getting upset about things you haven't even seen come to fruition.
You can't say it's the player's fault. We're supposed to be able to jump into these games without knowledge of the series that they are bas… moreed on. That's what TTG claims.
You don't seem to understand my point at all. No one should have to deal with the possibility of their story and characters being used like this.
No, you can't. TTG said we were supposed to be able to go into these games without having played any of the main Borderlands games. It's not right to insult us and say it is our fault we don't know which plot points are going to be left unresolved or which characters are only cameos. It's not the same as playing Borderlands 2 without having played the first game. Why should players be expected to look at wikis for a game after being told that we wouldn't need such information?
You're being more than a little rude. If you can't be civil, then just agree to disagree and move on.
Yes I can for all the reasons I said before, if you want more information; play the previous games, watch videos, or look up the wiki. There… more is no excuse. And you can come into this game with 0 knowledge and play it through just fine w/o seeking any prior information. The player is simply lazy if they're not willing to seek more when they want more, there's no excuse, especially when this comes from a well established series.
You seem to say the same thing to everyone you argue/debate with in this thread that, "We don't understand". I think you're just not happy with the knowledge of knowing this is a small closed story that will more than likely be pursed in another game you have little to no interest in. You need to come to terms with that and DEAL WITH IT. Unless you've got the money to say otherwise and change things, you've got no control here, like most things in life.
I and others keep throwing the facts at you but you're just no… [view original content]
I'm not being rude in the slightest, you're just not willing to accept one thing anyone says despite all the different points that don't align with your personal wishes.
You want people to understand your point of view, you explain it, others and myself debate it, you continue to say the same things and how we're the ones still not getting it, we try to bring up facts and different points, you refuse to accept anything because you want this to be made perfectly for yourself.
Once again... anyone can come into this game with no knowledge of the others at all and not have their experience hampered by not knowing/playing the previous games. But when you are knowingly coming into a game that has several games all set before this, you can not complain about not having enough information when (to say again) this game is focusing on it's own small story and attempting to make us care for new characters. This game has it hard enough that it's trying to tell an engaging tale that any new person can jump into, you as the player have a personal responsibility to seek more when you're wanting to know about characters that are featured in the other games but are not the protagonists here.
And it can be the exact same thing as like you said, playing Borderlands 2 but not playing 1 first. You play as a whole new character, a blank slate and pursue this new adventure that does not rely on the first at all just like this. You do not need to know more about Zero or Athena, they're not critical to the story, if you want to know more then you have those methods as stated before.
You're not expected at all to look any of this up, but you're free to get more information about these other characters who matter little to what's going on with this story. But if you're going to complain that you don't have enough info and didn't bother trying to find any information where these other minor characters were the stars in the other games, then I don't care since you expect everything to be spoon-fed to you.
This is the equivalent if you were to complain that TWD S2 didn't explain Clem and Kenny's history well enough if you didn't play the first season. The material is there! Go learn more if you'd like but it's not needed to fulfill any of TellTale's stories, if you're not willing to learn more then don't complain when you're confused. It makes no sense!
No, you can't. TTG said we were supposed to be able to go into these games without having played any of the main Borderlands games. It's n… moreot right to insult us and say it is our fault we don't know which plot points are going to be left unresolved or which characters are only cameos. It's not the same as playing Borderlands 2 without having played the first game. Why should players be expected to look at wikis for a game after being told that we wouldn't need such information?
You're being more than a little rude. If you can't be civil, then just agree to disagree and move on.
I'm not being rude in the slightest, you're just not willing to accept one thing anyone says despite all the different points that don't ali… moregn with your personal wishes.
You want people to understand your point of view, you explain it, others and myself debate it, you continue to say the same things and how we're the ones still not getting it, we try to bring up facts and different points, you refuse to accept anything because you want this to be made perfectly for yourself.
Once again... anyone can come into this game with no knowledge of the others at all and not have their experience hampered by not knowing/playing the previous games. But when you are knowingly coming into a game that has several games all set before this, you can not complain about not having enough information when (to say again) this game is focusing on it's own small story and attempting to make us care for new characters. This game has it hard enough that it's t… [view original content]
So it's rude for me to tell you to learn more if you want to learn more because this game does not have the time to explain everyone's story to you and the events of 3 games that came before it? Get real man!
You are not being insulted, I'm trying to educate you but you refuse to listen to anything but your own thoughts and opinions. Like I said for the 3rd or 4th time now, you don't have to read any wikis! The story itself is well contained that all the information you need is provided to you through the game you're playing. It is completely on you to get more if you want more, to say it again as well, TellTale is not required to spoon feed you more information than is needed when it is well established elsewhere.
It's exactly the same! Every Borderlands game, including this, is directly connected, TellTale just gets to play a little loose with this story since it's small potatoes. My point was how you can't complain about not knowing about prior events when the story you're involved in does not rely on knowing them, that was my point, not if it's all connected!
You as a player and a person have no excuse when you're wanting to know about completely unrelated and irrelevant events/persons to the story at hand when that same information you want is a couple clicks and keyboard strokes away.
It's rude to insult people for going into the game blind, despite the fact that the developers tell us we should have no problems doing just that. I don't need to be "educated". We are clearly not going to agree, and you're really derailing the actual topic.
So it's rude for me to tell you to learn more if you want to learn more because this game does not have the time to explain everyone's story… more to you and the events of 3 games that came before it? Get real man!
You are not being insulted, I'm trying to educate you but you refuse to listen to anything but your own thoughts and opinions. Like I said for the 3rd or 4th time now, you don't have to read any wikis! The story itself is well contained that all the information you need is provided to you through the game you're playing. It is completely on you to get more if you want more, to say it again as well, TellTale is not required to spoon feed you more information than is needed when it is well established elsewhere.
It's exactly the same! Every Borderlands game, including this, is directly connected, TellTale just gets to play a little loose with this story since it's small potatoes. My point was how you can't complain about not knowing … [view original content]
lol You are just not getting it. There is no problem jumping into any of these games blind as I've said idk how many posts above. Please enjoy yourself as you refuse to come away from your own ignorance. And I've stayed quite true to the topic, feel free to read all our posts again if you like. We discussed your topic, both sides brought up different points and naturally we debated about it. But strangely enough, you fell away from all of your other points and choose to stick with this one.
Please do us all a favor and try to either have an open mind or better explain your side if you want to discuss something other than falling back to "You don't understand". And just because someone brings up completely valid points to each of your remarks and tries several times to calmly and clearly explain something, does not mean they are insulting you.
It's rude to insult people for going into the game blind, despite the fact that the developers tell us we should have no problems doing just… more that. I don't need to be "educated". We are clearly not going to agree, and you're really derailing the actual topic.
lol You are just not getting it. There is no problem jumping into any of these games blind as I've said idk how many posts above. Please enj… moreoy yourself as you refuse to come away from your own ignorance. And I've stayed quite true to the topic, feel free to read all our posts again if you like. We discussed your topic, both sides brought up different points and naturally we debated about it. But strangely enough, you fell away from all of your other points and choose to stick with this one.
Please do us all a favor and try to either have an open mind or better explain your side if you want to discuss something other than falling back to "You don't understand". And just because someone brings up completely valid points to each of your remarks and tries several times to calmly and clearly explain something, does not mean they are insulting you.
You are more than welcomed to, but you're not being bullied. This is a thread from a forum where people voice their opinions. Please feel free to 'defend' yourself when this whole thing has been a discussion unrelated to you but about the topic you presented.
You are more than welcomed to, but you're not being bullied. This is a thread from a forum where people voice their opinions. Please feel fr… moreee to 'defend' yourself when this whole thing has been a discussion unrelated to you but about the topic you presented.
Comments
You used the right word, "tolerated". I didn't like it, but I was okay with it.
There's only one Borderlands franchise and this game is part of it too...
What about all those of us that play both ?
Because see there are NOT 2 populations of players, those that play BL games and those that play TFTB, there are 3 since you need to include those that play both.
But it shouldn't be. The Choose Your Own Adventure style makes it so the game should be separate, and it's a completely different genre.
What about the people who play both? That's not really relevant to the argument I'm making. The people who play both are not the ones who will suffer the most, though even they will have to deal with the Tales story and its characters possibly being just a stepping stone.
It IS fully integrated, they have said it is canon to the franchise and that it will lead to BL3, as well as it is closing loops that were left opened between TPS gameplay that happens before BL2 and TPS narration of the story that happens after BL2.
Well I disagree and I think it should be since I don't think people would want TFTB to be to the Borderlands franchise what the EU is to Star Wars...
It's pretty common for games, movies, and books of the same thing to be different canons. And that's without this particular style.
Suffer ? We're not going to suffer anything, there is a story and there are parts of it, whether we want it or not, that happen regardless of our choices. If you accept that this or that event happens no matter what, be it Vazquez death, Athena being captured, and so on and so forth, on which you have no control, I don't see what's difficult about other cornerstones of the Borderlands universe.
We do have some choices to make, here and there, but it's certainly not our prerogative to decide what's going to happen in the main timeline of the franchise, about major plots or major characters.
I couldn't say, but what I know is that it's been official since a long time that TFTB is canon to the Borderlands franchise and that some events and characters of the RPG shooters have echoes in TFTB, while what happens in TFTB will have echoes in BL3.
I mean you should be happy : TFTB is actually shaping the future of the franchise.
It IS fully canon, and directly ties into TPS as well.
You should be happy! Rhys and Fiona could appear! WHY ARE YOU NOT HAPPY?
You don't seem to understand-that's my point.
A lot of people play this games to make their own story. TTG has repeatedly made mistakes and hurt their stories by having our choices not matter, but in many ways, this is worse. They could take any of the Tales characters and ignore who and what we made them, as well as the relationships we've built with those around them. They could continue their story in a game a lot of us won't be able to play, in a way that a lot of us are not interested in. I'd consider that suffering.
I've explained why multiple times. WE are making Rhys and Fiona. And for what? So they can just be taken away and put in Borderlands 3 with whatever characteristics and relationships Gearbox wants them to have? So their story can be explored in a game a lot of people can't or don't want to play? That's not what I signed up for.
I think if we look closely, not sure about ep 1, but i'm sure of it in ep 2 you can see the floating names of some planets in the vault map, I think right after the "pushing". I think... Well there is a moment, I can't remember where, where we can clearly read a few names, maybe Promethea is one of them ?
I can assure you I understand.
There are points in the story that are important to you and you'd like to have control over them.
What YOU don't understand is that there are already MANY events in the story, and no matter what TTG game you play, in which you do NOT have control over, that you will NEVER have control over, they WILL happen regardless if that game is tied to another franchise or not.
Let me tell you this thing : if you were playing TFTB and didn't know it was inside a franchise, you wouldn't have created this thread. In fact it's the prior knowledge (a spoiler of sort) that TFTB is en episode set between other games that have you on this crusade right now.
It is impossible, whether the game is part of another story or not, to have all choices have weight and thus not have parts that are predestined. There will ALWAYS be parts that are predestined and you have no control over, again : Vasquez death, Athena's capture, one of those thug that ends up having his face burnt, and so many others...
WHETHER OR NOT you have prior knowledge if the game is inside another saga, or not.
So why focus on Jack ?
And moreso why suffer ?
Again, there are 3 different populations of players in the Borderlands franchise, those that only played the RPG-shooters, those that will only play TFTB and those that play both. In the grand scheme of things none of those 3 populations should have a say on what happens or what doesn't happen and why. It's GBX and TTG decisions. And there's only one franchise.
That's one of TTG's biggest flaws. Too many things happen regardless of your choices. But we're still supposed to be building these characters and their relationships. There are a lot of things that could be done with them, but because of this plan for the game to lead into Borderlands 3, most of those possibilities can potentially be wasted. It's going to suck for me if the whole point of Jack's existence in this game is just to find a way to get him into the main series again. I'm not sure you really do understand what I'm saying here, especially if you think I'm on a "crusade". Tales and the main series are two very different genres. One is like an interactive visual novel, while the other is a first-person shooter.
Honestly I'm not to sure what to say really, I'd figure most people who picked this up have played and at some level enjoyed the Borderlands games so I'm taken aback that you don't think seeing familiar faces and interacting with them is a good thing. While I do like this new cast that we've come to know, this story would just be mediocre w/o the faces most people know from the previous games. I know that sounds shallow but has there really been any successful TellTale game made that didn't use characters from the series it was portraying? None I can think of.
Even though you may not play the next Borderlands game, you outta be happy to see their stories continue in one fashion or another, whether they're playable, NPCs, or just some easter egg quest. I felt the same when I was playing Borderlands 2 myself when I encountered the old vault hunters and realized they had their own stories unfolding from before the game and during it too, and I'm happy to see them back in this continuing with their stories. Even though I may not be playing as them and shaping/directing everything they were doing, it was and is nice to see the characters living their own lives.
So while we don't know how this will end yet, regardless if you or I play the next, for me if Rhys and Fiona reappear there I'll be happy. I'm sorry that you don't like that and really I don't understand how you think this series could have been successful at all w/o old faces coming back, but I think you should try taking a step back and maybe look at this more selflessly.
One way or another you'll always have this game and this slice of these characters lives, so if they do appear in the next game which you may or may not play, don't worry about because you'll always have this game and story to come back to.
It is what you signed up for. They said before it was released that it sets BL3 up. Would you rather them just say this game is uncanon? That would be even worse.
I'd rather it be set in its own continuity, as is usually the case in these kinds of situations. But it's definitely not what I signed up for. I'd never heard anything about the game leading into Borderlands 3 until recently.
It's not that cameos are bad things on their own. They're good...if you've played the main Borderlands games. But as someone who initially went into this with no knowledge of the series, the effect was very different. I adored Zer0, and I couldn't wait to see him again in Episode Two and what his role in the story would be. Then I come on here and learn he was a cameo and probably won't appear again. Even if he does, it's unlikely he won't have a big role in the story like I'd originally thought. And people who have no knowledge of the Pre-Sequel are probably expecting to learn about what happened to Athena-maybe even rescue her and beat up the guys that took her. But that's unlikely to happen. There's also the fact that they've been bringing in so many cameos, they're not really introducing and developing a lot of new characters.
Their stories continuing is an issue because they are characters we created. My Rhys is a nice guy who has good relationships with the people around him. Other people play him as selfish or mean. There's no way they could continue Rhys' story without messing up his characterization. And what about the characters in this game? I would like to see their stories developed in THIS game without it just being used as a stepping stone to have them in Borderlands 3.
It cant be. We already had important interactions with major BL characters. When you played this, you were playing by the rules Gearbox set, which is that this is canon, Like when you set into a government building you have to follow their rules whether you want to or not.
How does people not wanting to or not being able to play affect you?
Because I'm one of those people?O_o And even if I were able/willing to play, it wouldn't change my core point.
I'd be fine if Tales didn't end up suffering as a result. I could live with the connections being related to the fact that that vault is open. Or if they brought Jack back by finding another AI or copying ours.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
I see that as the player's fault then if they come into this game w/o playing the others and being upset about not knowing story details or wanting more from a character but only getting 5 minutes of them here. That's on you to seek that information, you can either play the game, watch some videos, or hit the wikis to get caught up on anything this doesn't explain and that's more than fair.
This game/story is focusing on this Gortys Project and trying to make you care about whole new characters, it does not have the time to explain ten different subplots. I have no sympathy for players not willing to seek-out that extra bit of information when it is so easy to get in multiple ways. Don't like Borderlands cause it's an FPS RPG? Hit up it's wiki then, don't want to do that? Too bad.
It's not an issue at all when it's a whole different game and especially when you don't even know the capacity that any character could be used and even if they'll be used! And just like I said earlier, if you don't like it that's why you can always come back to this game and say, "This is the Rhys/Fiona I like and that's how they'll stay to me". And that's not fair to say at all that they would mess up any character's particular characterization, we have no idea what Gearbox will do with them if anything. And overall they've done a wonderful job in the past games of making me care about the characters.
-What happens to Mordecai's bird companion, Roland's sacrifice, the reveal of Jack's daughter and what happens between them, and in the presequel Jack's transformation is really something. And that's just naming a few.
So don't tell me they'll mess it up when they took some smart-ass villain who was funny and charming and made him into one of the best anti-heros I've seen in any game.
And you need to not see this game as a stepping stone or set-up game or you're just going to get more cynical about it's future. It's not those at all, as said before, this game easily stands alone and you can enjoy it as a standalone game w/o getting mixed feelings about a looming game. What you should do, is realize this is probably the only TellTale game of these characters you'll get and enjoy it like you have been before you got worried about all this.
You can't say it's the player's fault. We're supposed to be able to jump into these games without knowledge of the series that they are based on. That's what TTG claims.
You don't seem to understand my point at all. No one should have to deal with the possibility of their story and characters being used like this.
It was in reply to your post above but the forums screwed up.
Yes I can for all the reasons I said before, if you want more information; play the previous games, watch videos, or look up the wiki. There is no excuse. And you can come into this game with 0 knowledge and play it through just fine w/o seeking any prior information. The player is simply lazy if they're not willing to seek more when they want more, there's no excuse, especially when this comes from a well established series.
You seem to say the same thing to everyone you argue/debate with in this thread that, "We don't understand". I think you're just not happy with the knowledge of knowing this is a small closed story that will more than likely be pursed in another game you have little to no interest in. You need to come to terms with that and DEAL WITH IT. Unless you've got the money to say otherwise and change things, you've got no control here, like most things in life.
I and others keep throwing the facts at you but you're just not willing to accept anything. Last time I'll say it, you can enjoy this particular enclosed story w/o getting upset about things you haven't even seen come to fruition.
No, you can't. TTG said we were supposed to be able to go into these games without having played any of the main Borderlands games. It's not right to insult us and say it is our fault we don't know which plot points are going to be left unresolved or which characters are only cameos. It's not the same as playing Borderlands 2 without having played the first game. Why should players be expected to look at wikis for a game after being told that we wouldn't need such information?
You're being more than a little rude. If you can't be civil, then just agree to disagree and move on.
I'm not being rude in the slightest, you're just not willing to accept one thing anyone says despite all the different points that don't align with your personal wishes.
You want people to understand your point of view, you explain it, others and myself debate it, you continue to say the same things and how we're the ones still not getting it, we try to bring up facts and different points, you refuse to accept anything because you want this to be made perfectly for yourself.
Once again... anyone can come into this game with no knowledge of the others at all and not have their experience hampered by not knowing/playing the previous games. But when you are knowingly coming into a game that has several games all set before this, you can not complain about not having enough information when (to say again) this game is focusing on it's own small story and attempting to make us care for new characters. This game has it hard enough that it's trying to tell an engaging tale that any new person can jump into, you as the player have a personal responsibility to seek more when you're wanting to know about characters that are featured in the other games but are not the protagonists here.
And it can be the exact same thing as like you said, playing Borderlands 2 but not playing 1 first. You play as a whole new character, a blank slate and pursue this new adventure that does not rely on the first at all just like this. You do not need to know more about Zero or Athena, they're not critical to the story, if you want to know more then you have those methods as stated before.
You're not expected at all to look any of this up, but you're free to get more information about these other characters who matter little to what's going on with this story. But if you're going to complain that you don't have enough info and didn't bother trying to find any information where these other minor characters were the stars in the other games, then I don't care since you expect everything to be spoon-fed to you.
This is the equivalent if you were to complain that TWD S2 didn't explain Clem and Kenny's history well enough if you didn't play the first season. The material is there! Go learn more if you'd like but it's not needed to fulfill any of TellTale's stories, if you're not willing to learn more then don't complain when you're confused. It makes no sense!
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So it's rude for me to tell you to learn more if you want to learn more because this game does not have the time to explain everyone's story to you and the events of 3 games that came before it? Get real man!
You are not being insulted, I'm trying to educate you but you refuse to listen to anything but your own thoughts and opinions. Like I said for the 3rd or 4th time now, you don't have to read any wikis! The story itself is well contained that all the information you need is provided to you through the game you're playing. It is completely on you to get more if you want more, to say it again as well, TellTale is not required to spoon feed you more information than is needed when it is well established elsewhere.
It's exactly the same! Every Borderlands game, including this, is directly connected, TellTale just gets to play a little loose with this story since it's small potatoes. My point was how you can't complain about not knowing about prior events when the story you're involved in does not rely on knowing them, that was my point, not if it's all connected!
You as a player and a person have no excuse when you're wanting to know about completely unrelated and irrelevant events/persons to the story at hand when that same information you want is a couple clicks and keyboard strokes away.
It's rude to insult people for going into the game blind, despite the fact that the developers tell us we should have no problems doing just that. I don't need to be "educated". We are clearly not going to agree, and you're really derailing the actual topic.
lol You are just not getting it. There is no problem jumping into any of these games blind as I've said idk how many posts above. Please enjoy yourself as you refuse to come away from your own ignorance. And I've stayed quite true to the topic, feel free to read all our posts again if you like. We discussed your topic, both sides brought up different points and naturally we debated about it. But strangely enough, you fell away from all of your other points and choose to stick with this one.
Please do us all a favor and try to either have an open mind or better explain your side if you want to discuss something other than falling back to "You don't understand". And just because someone brings up completely valid points to each of your remarks and tries several times to calmly and clearly explain something, does not mean they are insulting you.
I think it's time for you to go...
Naw, I'll hang around just in case you try pulling the same stunts with others on here.
I'm going to report you. I don't appreciate bullies.
You are more than welcomed to, but you're not being bullied. This is a thread from a forum where people voice their opinions. Please feel free to 'defend' yourself when this whole thing has been a discussion unrelated to you but about the topic you presented.
You need to stop. Now.