Regarding the characters 'paying' for their attitudes, I mostly meant the amount of mocking/condescension they receive from other characters or the narrative itself, and I feel Rhys is treated much more like a clown than Fiona when it comes to those situations. But it is also a fact that physical violence in all its forms is more acceptable (and comical) when it happens to male characters.
As for the different attitudes towards male and female character traits in general... I do agree with you (and the data, I wrote my MA thesis on gender in video games so I'm familiar with the double standards). There is certainly often a different approach among both developers and gamers towards what is acceptable behavior for male or female characters. But...
In the case of a PC... even when I'm playing a female character, and a (male or female) npc gives me lip... I usually shoot them in the face (in the games that allow for it, anyway...). As a gamer, I enjoy my power fantasy. This isn't really tied to gender for me. In the case of TFTB, I'd argue we 'knew' Rhys first, he's the first, and therefore 'main' 'us' we've met, and that makes him more of a pc than Fiona for many people. Fiona feels a bit like a secondary character to me, and that makes me identify with her less, despite her being female. (Additionally, I also love to play the villain, and you can't get much more villainous in the BL universe than a loyal Hyperion employee with HJ in his head...).
In conclusion... idk. It may be a gender issue, but I don't think it is for me at least. (And maybe we should start some kind of 'other BL related stuff' thread before this stuff gets too off-topic for wherever it starts, I think it's worth discussing somewhere dedicated?)
Sorry for the wall of text, if someone doesn't feel like reading, feel free to skip (obviously). I don't intent to start an argument or anyt… morehing, that's just my opinion (and it's not as likely to change as OP's opinion) so.
The thing is, it might be not as much the writers "fault" but like... you know there was a study where students were told to describe their teachers/professors positive and negative traits (or something like that, too bad I didn't save the link) and it's really interesting that not only those qualities were different (like for male teachers they were going with "smart" and "funny" while for females it was something like "kind" and I forgot the other one they were mainly using, but I hope you get the idea) but for negative traits in female teachers they were using words like "annoying" (yet again I don't remember the rest, I think it was "demanding" and "stern"). And that is practically the same thing. But especially th… [view original content]
Women can be confident and not be bitches. Fiona isn't confident, she over compensates for her lack of confident by being arrogant and snide to others. Athena is confident and no one is calling her bitchy. Pick up any book by Jane Austen and she will show you how writing for a confident and in control female is done.
Perhaps the problem isn't peoples perception of confident, but some women emulate exaggerated traits to cover their own fear of inadequacies, or maybe those who write for video games haven't quite got writing for a confident woman down yet. Fiona has character flaws and no self awareness of them, therefore I don't like the character. It would be the same if she was a man. Also, not for nothing, as I woman I take umbrage at it being suggested that I am misogynistic because I dare question a female characters writing. I would be happy to take back my bitchy statement if she just once made an apology for an needless insult or mocking of Rhys or Vaughn. Throwing cards at a man paralyzed by your plan..bitchy.
To be fair, I don't think Fiona is particularly bitchy, just a bit rude and emotionally distant. Sasha acts much more like a stereotypical 'bitch', being defensively aggressive towards Rhys even when she's clearly in the wrong. Personally, while I'm a bit ambivalent towards Fiona, Sasha I can't make myself like at all.
Women can be confident and not be bitches. Fiona isn't confident, she over compensates for her lack of confident by being arrogant and snide… more to others. Athena is confident and no one is calling her bitchy. Pick up any book by Jane Austen and she will show you how writing for a confident and in control female is done.
Perhaps the problem isn't peoples perception of confident, but some women emulate exaggerated traits to cover their own fear of inadequacies, or maybe those who write for video games haven't quite got writing for a confident woman down yet. Fiona has character flaws and no self awareness of them, therefore I don't like the character. It would be the same if she was a man. Also, not for nothing, as I woman I take umbrage at it being suggested that I am misogynistic because I dare question a female characters writing. I would be happy to take back my bitchy statement if she just once made an apology for an needless insult or mocking of Rhys or Vaughn. Throwing cards at a man paralyzed by your plan..bitchy.
I like Sasha in that she can soften occasionally and shows a different side to her personality like when she and Rhys where walking through the bio-dome. Personally I think she is more fleshed out than Fiona, who doesn't have any cracks to her persona.
To be fair, I don't think Fiona is particularly bitchy, just a bit rude and emotionally distant. Sasha acts much more like a stereotypical '… morebitch', being defensively aggressive towards Rhys even when she's clearly in the wrong. Personally, while I'm a bit ambivalent towards Fiona, Sasha I can't make myself like at all.
The way I see it, both Rhys and Fiona are trying to be something they're not, especially when they're not alone with Vaughn and Sasha. For Rhys it's confidence and for Fiona it's competence, but to make it simple it can be called confidence for both. But Rhys is the only one who's getting away with it. And it's kinda unfair to hear people saying that they don't like character A but don't mind the same thing or even like in character B. It's clear that it's just a facade for both, take that away and they're both genuinly care about their friends and family members. So far I haven't seen an indication that Fiona's thinking she's some kind of a super-woman or more capable than the rest of the team. Maybe she thinks that Rhys' is kinda meh but that's another story because we can't even tell how much of that is influenced by the fact she's telling a story (and by that I mean they're both pretty pissed at each other) and his bad decisions through the game.
Also, not for nothing, as I woman I take umbrage at it being suggested that I am misogynistic because I dare question a female characters writing.
I don't really think that has anything to do with sex or gender, because in that study for instance they've been asking both male and female students and the answers were similar.
And I totally agree with TheRatPack55 that's funny how Sasha's not being called a b-tch despite acting like a classic one. How come? What Fiona did to deserve that? But that's more of a rhetorical question.
Women can be confident and not be bitches. Fiona isn't confident, she over compensates for her lack of confident by being arrogant and snide… more to others. Athena is confident and no one is calling her bitchy. Pick up any book by Jane Austen and she will show you how writing for a confident and in control female is done.
Perhaps the problem isn't peoples perception of confident, but some women emulate exaggerated traits to cover their own fear of inadequacies, or maybe those who write for video games haven't quite got writing for a confident woman down yet. Fiona has character flaws and no self awareness of them, therefore I don't like the character. It would be the same if she was a man. Also, not for nothing, as I woman I take umbrage at it being suggested that I am misogynistic because I dare question a female characters writing. I would be happy to take back my bitchy statement if she just once made an apology for an needless insult or mocking of Rhys or Vaughn. Throwing cards at a man paralyzed by your plan..bitchy.
I admit I appreciated Sasha's development in ep.3 as well, like her conflicted feelings over August, but then they went the sickeningly cheesy and super-awkward romantic route, which unfortunately forced me to be the rude party... :P
I like Sasha in that she can soften occasionally and shows a different side to her personality like when she and Rhys where walking through … morethe bio-dome. Personally I think she is more fleshed out than Fiona, who doesn't have any cracks to her persona.
But it is also a fact that physical violence in all its forms is more acceptable (and comical) when it happens to male characters.
That's probably yet another reason why the clown's role was given to Rhys...
In the case of a PC... even when I'm playing a female character, and a (male or female) npc gives me lip... I usually shoot them in the face (in the games that allow for it, anyway...). As a gamer, I enjoy my power fantasy. This isn't really tied to gender for me.
Yep, it's not necessarily tied to gender, but man, male gamers are just more likely to get pissed if you don't handle them something they're used to (usually it's pretty, obidient romance option (waifus)... stuff like that). They don't even bother to cover it, they just tell you that "games are made for them" so the devs must cater to them.
In the case of TFTB, I'd argue we 'knew' Rhys first, he's the first, and therefore 'main' 'us' we've met, and that makes him more of a pc than Fiona for many people. Fiona feels a bit like a secondary character to me, and that makes me identify with her less, despite her being female
Yeah, that too. Kinda sucks tho. At least they "reintroduced" her in ep3. But still,I wish they would've done the whole thing better in the beginning.
In conclusion... idk. It may be a gender issue, but I don't think it is for me at least. (And maybe we should start some kind of 'other BL related stuff' thread before this stuff gets too off-topic for wherever it starts, I think it's worth discussing somewhere dedicated?)
Well, it's sure something to think about cause it's kinda interesting. It can't be a coincidence that even the terms people use are alike. Not sure there's much left to discuss tho?
Regarding the characters 'paying' for their attitudes, I mostly meant the amount of mocking/condescension they receive from other characters… more or the narrative itself, and I feel Rhys is treated much more like a clown than Fiona when it comes to those situations. But it is also a fact that physical violence in all its forms is more acceptable (and comical) when it happens to male characters.
As for the different attitudes towards male and female character traits in general... I do agree with you (and the data, I wrote my MA thesis on gender in video games so I'm familiar with the double standards). There is certainly often a different approach among both developers and gamers towards what is acceptable behavior for male or female characters. But...
In the case of a PC... even when I'm playing a female character, and a (male or female) npc gives me lip... I usually shoot them in the face (in the games that allow for it, anyway...). As a ga… [view original content]
When did Rhys knowingly spit on Fiona? When did he hit her to feel better? Kick sand in her face? Try to kill her because she was useless? When did he call her an idiot to her face? If Rhys had would you consider him 'confident' or a raging prick? So not a rhetorical question since I have answers to your question.
The way I see it, both Rhys and Fiona are trying to be something they're not, especially when they're not alone with Vaughn and Sasha. For R… morehys it's confidence and for Fiona it's competence, but to make it simple it can be called confidence for both. But Rhys is the only one who's getting away with it. And it's kinda unfair to hear people saying that they don't like character A but don't mind the same thing or even like in character B. It's clear that it's just a facade for both, take that away and they're both genuinly care about their friends and family members. So far I haven't seen an indication that Fiona's thinking she's some kind of a super-woman or more capable than the rest of the team. Maybe she thinks that Rhys' is kinda meh but that's another story because we can't even tell how much of that is influenced by the fact she's telling a story (and by that I mean they're both pretty pissed at each other) and his bad decisions through t… [view original content]
Before I go to bed cause it's late and I got work tomorrow, just gonna say I agree with your responses here. (And the 'dedicated thread' is more of an idea for the future, since sometimes I really feel like discussing something exclusively BL/TPS with this crowd, but fear it would be too off topic in the TT threads).
But it is also a fact that physical violence in all its forms is more acceptable (and comical) when it happens to male characters.
T… morehat's probably yet another reason why the clown's role was given to Rhys...
In the case of a PC... even when I'm playing a female character, and a (male or female) npc gives me lip... I usually shoot them in the face (in the games that allow for it, anyway...). As a gamer, I enjoy my power fantasy. This isn't really tied to gender for me.
Yep, it's not necessarily tied to gender, but man, male gamers are just more likely to get pissed if you don't handle them something they're used to (usually it's pretty, obidient romance option (waifus)... stuff like that). They don't even bother to cover it, they just tell you that "games are made for them" so the devs must cater to them.
In the case of TFTB, I'd argue we 'knew' Rhys first, he's the first, and therefore 'main' 'us' we've met, and th… [view original content]
Come on. We don't even know 1. if that's for real 2. what he did to deserve that. You can't tell us that she just woke up one day and decided to be all like "hey lets abuse him just for the lolz of it, why not?"
Try to kill her because she was useless?
Lets forget about the part where he tried to steal their only vehicle in the middle of the pure madness. Not to mention that he's Hyperion. Everyone loves Hyperion, especially people of Pandora.
When did Rhys knowingly spit on Fiona? When did he hit her to feel better? Kick sand in her face? Try to kill her because she was useless? W… morehen did he call her an idiot to her face? If Rhys had would you consider him 'confident' or a raging prick? So not a rhetorical question since I have answers to your question.
Before I go to bed cause it's late and I got work tomorrow, just gonna say I agree with your responses here. (And the 'dedicated thread' is … moremore of an idea for the future, since sometimes I really feel like discussing something exclusively BL/TPS with this crowd, but fear it would be too off topic in the TT threads).
Anywho, good talk, and goodnight.
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option. She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas. Stealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle, and she still punched him out of nowhere. Be honest if it was Rhys you would not feel the same way. He wouldn't have an unknown reason to justify it. And spitting on someone?
Come on. We don't even know 1. if that's for real 2. what he did to deserve that. You can't tell us that she just woke up one day and decide… mored to be all like "hey lets abuse him just for the lolz of it, why not?"
Try to kill her because she was useless?
Lets forget about the part where he tried to steal their only vehicle in the middle of the pure madness. Not to mention that he's Hyperion. Everyone loves Hyperion, especially people of Pandora.
When did he call her an idiot to her face?
When did she? I don't remember this one.
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option.
But.....it's only an option just like how Rhys has plenty of options to be a rude, arrogant, full of himself, jackass. Of course does that not count because Rhys is a "cutesy goofball"?
Stealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle, and she still punched him out of nowhere.
They're Hyperion, Fiona has zero reason to trust Rhys and Vaughn at that point and she wasn't even the one that wanted to shoot them in the face or was the one pushing Rhys out the caravan, that was all Sasha but does that not count because you personally like Sasha more? Fiona punching Rhys doesn't really come out of nowhere since clearly something happened between them that made both of them not care for each other, I wouldn't make my mind up just yet about what Fiona since we don't have all the facts yet.
And spitting on someone?
Well, Rhys wasn't exactly apologizing for it nor was he acting like it was an accident but that's just me not taking it too literally and like I said, they both don't like each other because something happened in the past that put them at each other's throats, so no facts yet.
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option. She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas. Ste… morealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle, and she still punched him out of nowhere. Be honest if it was Rhys you would not feel the same way. He wouldn't have an unknown reason to justify it. And spitting on someone?
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option.
Right. We choose that option and suddenly she's an asshole. That's not how it works. Because we can call him a friend in ep2 just like that. Both optional.
She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas.
?
Stealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle,
It was literally their only hope of getting out alive. And I like how again he's excused. I mean what, couldn't he just ran, right? No one would've tried to throw him out. What could've happened if he didn't get in the car? You don't need a car to survive on Pandora after all. the irony
and she still punched him out of nowhere.
Not "out of nowhere", you just don't know "why" yet. But sure is quick to judge. Clearly he did something. Maybe they both did, but for now it seems he's in a better position somehow and maybe even acts a little like he's apologizing. Kinda. And Fiona acts like it's very personal.
Be honest if it was Rhys you would not feel the same way
Who said I like Rhys? (or anyone for that matter) He's an interesting character, but canonically he's quite an asshole. There's already enough controversial things about him with all the years he worked in Hyperion, all the backstabbing of his rivals and eridium mines' deal. I have no strong feelings one way or another about them both, and I won't until the game is complete and we know exactly what happened with everyone.
And I just don't make that big of a deal of it because what we've seen in ep1 is still out of context and I won't judge anyone till I know what exactly happened. He could've made something horrible for all we know.
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option. She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas. Ste… morealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle, and she still punched him out of nowhere. Be honest if it was Rhys you would not feel the same way. He wouldn't have an unknown reason to justify it. And spitting on someone?
So she acts that way because..reasons? And Rhys is evil because of a hint of what he might have done? Well no way to counter reasons that don't exist, but might.
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option.
Right. We choose that option and suddenly she's an asshol… moree. That's not how it works. Because we can call him a friend in ep2 just like that. Both optional.
She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas.
?
Stealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle,
It was literally their only hope of getting out alive. And I like how again he's excused. I mean what, couldn't he just ran, right? No one would've tried to throw him out. What could've happened if he didn't get in the car? You don't need a car to survive on Pandora after all. the irony
and she still punched him out of nowhere.
Not "out of nowhere", you just don't know "why" yet. But sure is quick to judge. Clearly he did something. Maybe they both did, but for now it seems he's in a better position somehow and maybe even acts a l… [view original content]
Both. Fiona seems unlikable and unrelatable, and Just a plain Bad character in my Opinion. She was really cool in Episode 3, and I hope she stays that way, But I don't think she will. And I ship Rhysha until the day I die.
So she acts that way because..reasons? And Rhys is evil because of a hint of what he might have done? Well no way to counter reasons that don't exist, but might.
Well because clearly something happened and you can't deny that. Cause obviously, since Rhys is the only one she kicked and punched so far there's a reason. And your reasons to hate what Fiona does is just as strange - your own choices and something that you don't even know about yet because we're all only seen the outcome of that something and not the actual chain of events that led to ot.
And if you think that Fiona's a jerk just because you have an option to say something rude, what that makes Rhys who tried to kill his own boss and shot his arm out in the process? Who let the biggest asshole in the universe control the killing machines and by that almost killed his own friends?
So she acts that way because..reasons? And Rhys is evil because of a hint of what he might have done? Well no way to counter reasons that don't exist, but might.
Well because clearly something happened and you can't deny that. Cause obviously, since Rhys is the only one she kicked and punched so far t… morehere's a reason. And your reasons to hate what Fiona does is just as strange - your own choices and something that you don't even know about yet because we're all only seen the outcome of that something and not the actual chain of events that led to ot.
And if you think that Fiona's a jerk just because you have an option to say something rude, what that makes Rhys who tried to kill his own boss and shot his arm out in the process? Who let the biggest asshole in the universe control the killing machines and by that almost killed his own friends?
I'll monitor then. If this gets out of hand and turns into an argument, I'll try to break it up.
Keep things civil. If stuff turns toxic the Mods are gonna fly in and nuke the thread.
I had said my peace on the subject. These are fictional characters after all and I don't really have a vested interest in others liking them or not liking them.We will just have to disagree on that point and move on.
I'll monitor then. If this gets out of hand and turns into an argument, I'll try to break it up.
Keep things civil. If stuff turns toxic the Mods are gonna fly in and nuke the thread.
I had said my peace on the subject. These are fictional characters after all and I don't really have a vested interest in others liking them or not liking them.We will just have to disagree on that point and move on.
I actually like Fiona and Sasha, I see myself in both of them. They both have their flaws, but they shouldn't be stoned for that.
Really to me all of the characters are flawed, but they are growing into who they need to be. I don't see these threads about Vaughn or Rhys, I smell some bs.
So "constant needling of others as stupid, inept, and worthless" is considered the basic definition of "confident" for you?
Seriously. I think it's hypocritical to shield female characters from those sort of criticisms because of their gender. It's a terrible double standard, and it's a rude, baseless accusation of sexism. I personally agree with him, and I love plenty of strong/confident female leads (Sasha, Clementine, and Lilly are solid examples). They're likeable for me, but Fiona isn't. I like to think that I can have that preference without being labeled as intolerant or judgemental.
I dunno, I wouldn't say that she's clearly in the wrong. She's definitely a flawed and "bitchy" character, but she has a good reason to hold a grudge against Hyperion.
To be fair, I don't think Fiona is particularly bitchy, just a bit rude and emotionally distant. Sasha acts much more like a stereotypical '… morebitch', being defensively aggressive towards Rhys even when she's clearly in the wrong. Personally, while I'm a bit ambivalent towards Fiona, Sasha I can't make myself like at all.
Heh, I love how confident, rude women aren't allowed to be called bitches anymore while confident rude men still are and always have been assholes, no debate.
I love Fiona. TFtB, in my opinion, has been one of the best overall written and performed games from TT so far and she is a big part of why I feel that way. But different strokes for different folks, everything isn't going to click with everyone.
I was thinking more of particular instances, not her overall dislike of Hyperion. Like when she and Rhys argue in the tunnel when following the money case - even if Rhys brings up reasonable arguments (like the fact he and Vaughn were the ones offering real money for a fake vault key) Sasha's response is basically 'lalala, shut up, my gun beats your logic!'.
I dunno, I wouldn't say that she's clearly in the wrong. She's definitely a flawed and "bitchy" character, but she has a good reason to hold a grudge against Hyperion.
Comments
Regarding the characters 'paying' for their attitudes, I mostly meant the amount of mocking/condescension they receive from other characters or the narrative itself, and I feel Rhys is treated much more like a clown than Fiona when it comes to those situations. But it is also a fact that physical violence in all its forms is more acceptable (and comical) when it happens to male characters.
As for the different attitudes towards male and female character traits in general... I do agree with you (and the data, I wrote my MA thesis on gender in video games so I'm familiar with the double standards). There is certainly often a different approach among both developers and gamers towards what is acceptable behavior for male or female characters. But...
In the case of a PC... even when I'm playing a female character, and a (male or female) npc gives me lip... I usually shoot them in the face (in the games that allow for it, anyway...). As a gamer, I enjoy my power fantasy. This isn't really tied to gender for me. In the case of TFTB, I'd argue we 'knew' Rhys first, he's the first, and therefore 'main' 'us' we've met, and that makes him more of a pc than Fiona for many people. Fiona feels a bit like a secondary character to me, and that makes me identify with her less, despite her being female. (Additionally, I also love to play the villain, and you can't get much more villainous in the BL universe than a loyal Hyperion employee with HJ in his head...).
In conclusion... idk. It may be a gender issue, but I don't think it is for me at least. (And maybe we should start some kind of 'other BL related stuff' thread before this stuff gets too off-topic for wherever it starts, I think it's worth discussing somewhere dedicated?)
Women can be confident and not be bitches. Fiona isn't confident, she over compensates for her lack of confident by being arrogant and snide to others. Athena is confident and no one is calling her bitchy. Pick up any book by Jane Austen and she will show you how writing for a confident and in control female is done.
Perhaps the problem isn't peoples perception of confident, but some women emulate exaggerated traits to cover their own fear of inadequacies, or maybe those who write for video games haven't quite got writing for a confident woman down yet. Fiona has character flaws and no self awareness of them, therefore I don't like the character. It would be the same if she was a man. Also, not for nothing, as I woman I take umbrage at it being suggested that I am misogynistic because I dare question a female characters writing. I would be happy to take back my bitchy statement if she just once made an apology for an needless insult or mocking of Rhys or Vaughn. Throwing cards at a man paralyzed by your plan..bitchy.
To be fair, I don't think Fiona is particularly bitchy, just a bit rude and emotionally distant. Sasha acts much more like a stereotypical 'bitch', being defensively aggressive towards Rhys even when she's clearly in the wrong. Personally, while I'm a bit ambivalent towards Fiona, Sasha I can't make myself like at all.
I like Sasha in that she can soften occasionally and shows a different side to her personality like when she and Rhys where walking through the bio-dome. Personally I think she is more fleshed out than Fiona, who doesn't have any cracks to her persona.
The way I see it, both Rhys and Fiona are trying to be something they're not, especially when they're not alone with Vaughn and Sasha. For Rhys it's confidence and for Fiona it's competence, but to make it simple it can be called confidence for both. But Rhys is the only one who's getting away with it. And it's kinda unfair to hear people saying that they don't like character A but don't mind the same thing or even like in character B. It's clear that it's just a facade for both, take that away and they're both genuinly care about their friends and family members. So far I haven't seen an indication that Fiona's thinking she's some kind of a super-woman or more capable than the rest of the team. Maybe she thinks that Rhys' is kinda meh but that's another story because we can't even tell how much of that is influenced by the fact she's telling a story (and by that I mean they're both pretty pissed at each other) and his bad decisions through the game.
I don't really think that has anything to do with sex or gender, because in that study for instance they've been asking both male and female students and the answers were similar.
And I totally agree with TheRatPack55 that's funny how Sasha's not being called a b-tch despite acting like a classic one. How come? What Fiona did to deserve that? But that's more of a rhetorical question.
I admit I appreciated Sasha's development in ep.3 as well, like her conflicted feelings over August, but then they went the sickeningly cheesy and super-awkward romantic route, which unfortunately forced me to be the rude party... :P
That's probably yet another reason why the clown's role was given to Rhys...
Yep, it's not necessarily tied to gender, but man, male gamers are just more likely to get pissed if you don't handle them something they're used to (usually it's pretty, obidient romance option (waifus)... stuff like that). They don't even bother to cover it, they just tell you that "games are made for them" so the devs must cater to them.
Yeah, that too. Kinda sucks tho. At least they "reintroduced" her in ep3. But still,I wish they would've done the whole thing better in the beginning.
Well, it's sure something to think about cause it's kinda interesting. It can't be a coincidence that even the terms people use are alike. Not sure there's much left to discuss tho?
When did Rhys knowingly spit on Fiona? When did he hit her to feel better? Kick sand in her face? Try to kill her because she was useless? When did he call her an idiot to her face? If Rhys had would you consider him 'confident' or a raging prick? So not a rhetorical question since I have answers to your question.
Before I go to bed cause it's late and I got work tomorrow, just gonna say I agree with your responses here. (And the 'dedicated thread' is more of an idea for the future, since sometimes I really feel like discussing something exclusively BL/TPS with this crowd, but fear it would be too off topic in the TT threads).
Anywho, good talk, and goodnight.
Come on. We don't even know 1. if that's for real 2. what he did to deserve that. You can't tell us that she just woke up one day and decided to be all like "hey lets abuse him just for the lolz of it, why not?"
Lets forget about the part where he tried to steal their only vehicle in the middle of the pure madness. Not to mention that he's Hyperion. Everyone loves Hyperion, especially people of Pandora.
When did she? I don't remember this one.
I think we can discuss pretty much anything, just in Telltale Talk.
Night. ^^/
When you are asked if you where all stupid by Athena, she has that option. She says it in the vehicle when Rhys was talking about Atlas. Stealing a car is not the same as pushing someone out of a moving vehicle, and she still punched him out of nowhere. Be honest if it was Rhys you would not feel the same way. He wouldn't have an unknown reason to justify it. And spitting on someone?
Not for most of the reasons you do tbh, but I'm not a major fan of Fiona either.
But.....it's only an option just like how Rhys has plenty of options to be a rude, arrogant, full of himself, jackass. Of course does that not count because Rhys is a "cutesy goofball"?
They're Hyperion, Fiona has zero reason to trust Rhys and Vaughn at that point and she wasn't even the one that wanted to shoot them in the face or was the one pushing Rhys out the caravan, that was all Sasha but does that not count because you personally like Sasha more? Fiona punching Rhys doesn't really come out of nowhere since clearly something happened between them that made both of them not care for each other, I wouldn't make my mind up just yet about what Fiona since we don't have all the facts yet.
Well, Rhys wasn't exactly apologizing for it nor was he acting like it was an accident but that's just me not taking it too literally and like I said, they both don't like each other because something happened in the past that put them at each other's throats, so no facts yet.
Right. We choose that option and suddenly she's an asshole. That's not how it works. Because we can call him a friend in ep2 just like that. Both optional.
?
It was literally their only hope of getting out alive. And I like how again he's excused. I mean what, couldn't he just ran, right? No one would've tried to throw him out. What could've happened if he didn't get in the car? You don't need a car to survive on Pandora after all. the irony
Not "out of nowhere", you just don't know "why" yet. But sure is quick to judge. Clearly he did something. Maybe they both did, but for now it seems he's in a better position somehow and maybe even acts a little like he's apologizing. Kinda. And Fiona acts like it's very personal.
Who said I like Rhys? (or anyone for that matter)
He's an interesting character, but canonically he's quite an asshole. There's already enough controversial things about him with all the years he worked in Hyperion, all the backstabbing of his rivals and eridium mines' deal. I have no strong feelings one way or another about them both, and I won't until the game is complete and we know exactly what happened with everyone.
And I just don't make that big of a deal of it because what we've seen in ep1 is still out of context and I won't judge anyone till I know what exactly happened. He could've made something horrible for all we know.
So she acts that way because..reasons? And Rhys is evil because of a hint of what he might have done? Well no way to counter reasons that don't exist, but might.
A bad character? I think she's a great character.
Alright, that's enough, or we're gonna have to deal with ANOTHER stupid fight.
That's a bit better, but if there's any more blood splashing over the ring I'm gonna have to unleash my Rant Revolver.
Well because clearly something happened and you can't deny that. Cause obviously, since Rhys is the only one she kicked and punched so far there's a reason. And your reasons to hate what Fiona does is just as strange - your own choices and something that you don't even know about yet because we're all only seen the outcome of that something and not the actual chain of events that led to ot.
And if you think that Fiona's a jerk just because you have an option to say something rude, what that makes Rhys who tried to kill his own boss and shot his arm out in the process? Who let the biggest asshole in the universe control the killing machines and by that almost killed his own friends?
OH FOR GOD'S SAKE-
That worked well last time xD
Wat. It's still just a conversation, not an argument.
I'll monitor then. If this gets out of hand and turns into an argument, I'll try to break it up.
Keep things civil. If stuff turns toxic the Mods are gonna fly in and nuke the thread.
Roger that.
I had said my peace on the subject. These are fictional characters after all and I don't really have a vested interest in others liking them or not liking them.We will just have to disagree on that point and move on.
Do so, please.
I do like Fiona, but not as much as I like Sasha.
Fiona is my favourite character next to Rhys. I really cant stand Sasha, I just find her annoying.
I think shes awesome, I prefer playing as her more than i do as Rhys.
Fiona or die.
Nisha clothes are very similar to Fiona and she was a voult hunter, so,,, i realy dont think you topic have any logic. you ever play borderlands?
I actually like Fiona and Sasha, I see myself in both of them. They both have their flaws, but they shouldn't be stoned for that.
Really to me all of the characters are flawed, but they are growing into who they need to be. I don't see these threads about Vaughn or Rhys, I smell some bs.
So "constant needling of others as stupid, inept, and worthless" is considered the basic definition of "confident" for you?
Seriously. I think it's hypocritical to shield female characters from those sort of criticisms because of their gender. It's a terrible double standard, and it's a rude, baseless accusation of sexism. I personally agree with him, and I love plenty of strong/confident female leads (Sasha, Clementine, and Lilly are solid examples). They're likeable for me, but Fiona isn't. I like to think that I can have that preference without being labeled as intolerant or judgemental.
I dunno, I wouldn't say that she's clearly in the wrong. She's definitely a flawed and "bitchy" character, but she has a good reason to hold a grudge against Hyperion.
Heh, I love how confident, rude women aren't allowed to be called bitches anymore while confident rude men still are and always have been assholes, no debate.
I love Fiona. TFtB, in my opinion, has been one of the best overall written and performed games from TT so far and she is a big part of why I feel that way. But different strokes for different folks, everything isn't going to click with everyone.
I was thinking more of particular instances, not her overall dislike of Hyperion. Like when she and Rhys argue in the tunnel when following the money case - even if Rhys brings up reasonable arguments (like the fact he and Vaughn were the ones offering real money for a fake vault key) Sasha's response is basically 'lalala, shut up, my gun beats your logic!'.