I KNEW he didn't know.
Jack's AI was made just prior to the events of Borderlands 2. I knew he wasn't aware Angel was dead, and I knew it'd come up this Episode.
If he finds out, the group (and probably all of Pandora) is absolutely f**ked now that's he back in control of Hyperion. Siding with him might be the only way to keep him from eviscerating Rhys, Fiona, and the gang, I fear.
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Also, if i am not wrong,he knows that his girlfriend Nisha is dead(he says sommething like that if you look at her hat in his office),and i didnt play Borderlands 2,but didnt it(Nisha's death by Vault hunters)happen during the same time period?
Im not quite sure what he meant when he said about visiting her. He either doesn't know a thing and wants to really visit her or he know she's dead and he wants to visit her grave or something, he seemed really sad.
I figured he DID know but was BSing it to make us feel sympathetic.
He's manipulative, after all.
Angel's one of few things that can make Jack go from being a cocky smartass to an absolutely vindictive psychopath., FAR more terrifying than he usually is.
If Jack knew Angel was dead, he wouldn't bother being manipulative or lying about it. He'd be perpetually enraged.
Or Angel's death was so traumatic for him that Jack completely suppressed it from his memory, and believes she's still alive
That dialog of his about Angel broke my heart. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the person to have to tell him his daughter is dead. He'd probably go on a murderous rampage...
I still kinda feel as if he's just repressing the memories about Angel and his own death, though. I hope they explore where exactly his memories cut off in the final episode.
Yes. She was killed as part of a sidequest arc.
I felt so awful for him when I realized he had no idea that Angel was dead, but two minutes later I chose to reject Hyperion and all my sympathy pretty much went kaput when he acted the way he did. Then again, if you reject Hyperion, Rhys is kinda pissy about the way he says it... I don't know, I'm always tactful in person (i.e. I'm a wuss) so I always get second-hand embarrassment/awkwardness when my game characters behave differently than I normally would. Not saying Jack wouldn't have been a bitch about it - it's doubtless he would have been a dick no matter how gently you turn him down.
I get why some people saw it as Jack having a hissy fit, but I tried it first, and yeah, Rhys got really pissy out of nowhere, and there wasn't any REAL reason to refuse. You couldn't tell him you disagreed with his methods or wanted to think things over, you could only call him an assh*le, especially after he'd helped you break into Hyperion to begin with.
Jack was angry, sure, but it was a pretty stupid thing of Rhys to do, all storyline and plot considered.
It felt SO awkward... Rhys immediately acts like a bitch about it, and the only options are (I'm going off memory here so these might not be exact) 1. call Jack - a dangerous psychopath - "annoying" to his digital face, 2. call him a loser, or 3. say he deserved to die. Maybe next time I'll see what the stay quiet option does. I mean, Rhys has to know Jack still has some control over him. He should have played it smart and been more diplomatic about the rejection. After all, if you have him say "Eh screw Hyperion" in an earlier scene, Jack agrees with him and says "you sound a lot like me". I'm positive Jack would have tried uploading himself even if you had been tactful, but he might have at least let Rhys go, or not threaten to force him to murder Fiona later.
...waaaaaait, I guess there's no drama if he were to just let Rhys go. Eh, still felt awkward. But, then again, I still loved it.
When you scan the Angel picture (with Jackapedia), his definition is bland and states "Look at something else. Seriously" or something relative to that.
Maybe he DOES know she's dead?
Or maybe he was just being a father and wanting to make sure Rhys wasn't thinking anything about her.
But if he doesn't know, how does he know all about what's happened in the Tales series? Is it because he's in Rhys' head and all that information is transferred to Jack?
Technically if you accept and grab the device to shove it in, but wait too long at the final arrow prompt to put it in, you'd still get the rejection ending but all Rhys does is hesitate with, "I... uh...". Jack's still an ass.
THIS. He turns on you in a heartbeat, even if you have supported him the entire time - it's downright terrifying.
I completely agree that Rhys acts like a massive douchebag and is pretty much asking for it if you choose to reject him, but for those who just trip up at the last hurdle, Jack did have a hissyfit (except that implies it wasn't bone-chillingly horrifying). Once a psychopath, always a psychopath.
I'm so glad you got the same ending I did the first time through. I didn't support him the entire way along, but I was willing to take over Hyperion since that was what Rhys always wanted. But then a second of hesitation and BAM! His claws COME OUT.
It was entirely shocking after the overall chilled-out attitude he had the whole way along. You really get an idea of how much he'd just been manipulating you when you do almost nothing against him but still end up on the wrong side of Handsome Jack. Even if ruling Hyperion is objectively a better outcome, this ending(including failing the last prompt) is my favorite because of how terrifying it was. I was left speechless staring at the results screen for a while.
I'm with you, I don't think Jack AI has any idea of what happens to himself between the mission "The Man Who Would Be Jack" and his death. This would make his wanting to see her into him wanting to either apologize to her (you know cause he now knows what being stuck somewhere he can't escape feels like), or to see if she's safe in general.
Did he really comment on her death? I was paying pretty close attention to that, and I don't remember him saying that.
What I don't get is, if he was planning on uploading himself to Helios, how is he planning on visiting her later? He just gonna fly his space station body on down there? Is there some other body he could use...? Magical AI teleportation to Control Core Angel?
By the way I hope he had something humorous to say about the ironic fact that he's an AI now when he went to meet her. Not that we'd ever hear it.
Knowing that he says the "you and me are pretty tight" line regardless if you've been nice/trusted him or a massive prick/betrayed him really makes me think this is the case.
All he ever wanted was to get you back to Helios and in that chair. This was all premeditated - just look at the way he reacts if you say you want to keep him a secret from Hyperion all the way back in episode two. He's been playing us this entire time.
That's how Hyperion knew that something was in Rhys' brain; that's why Jack said "looks like that tracker's working"; that's why his office was off-limits and preserved (particularly his desk). Because it was all part of the protocol to get him back on top. But of course, Nakayama went and fell down a set of stairs so everything was in stasis...
Now, that's not to say that if you give him everything he wants he won't look after you (and I definitely think it's a better option than outright rejecting him), but he would not hesitate to kill you if you did anything to get in his way (or just pissed him off, or looked at him funny, or he was bored).
You're not friends. He was a parasite, and you were his host.
(and yet I still want every part of this insanity!)
EDIT: I should also mention that it is definitely possible he doesn't know about her or Nisha, but still, what he said about Angel was still massively manipulative, and because of that it wouldn't surprise me if he did know.
Also, it's kind of like, what's worse?: He knows she died and outright lied to your face, or he still thinks she's alive and trapped in her control core but doesn't want to check on her until after he's got everything he wants (i.e. the vault). The latter is definitely fitting - post-getting-control-cored she was only ever a tool to him. The second he doesn't need her she's little more than an afterthought.
Seriously, after 4 whole episodes of ass-kissing and bootlicking to have him turn on me like that for a moment of hesitation was the most shocking thing in the world. I actually thought that was the "good" ending, and that the people who outright betrayed him somehow got even worse (I didn't know how that was possible). Like you, when the credits started rolling my jaw was in my lap (and then the creepy 'take-over' happened and I got even more freaked out).
It wasn't until I saw people talking about their 'good' ending that I realised something went horribly wrong. I thought it was a bug or something, but when I rewound I figured it out. I genuinely think everyone should play it like we did - it reveals so much about his character.
It's really similar to the caravan roof scene in ep 3 where he's way more hostile/malicious if you trusted him and then refused his deal, rather than not trusting him the entire time. That one I can kind of understand because of his thing with betrayal - BUT OH MY GOD, DUDE, I HESITATED FOR A SECOND AND YOU WENT FULL PSYCHO, I WAS GOING TO COMPLY!
Nope. Some people think that because he was speaking in past-tense about her that he knew she was dead, when in reality he was speaking about her hat in the past tense (which makes sense because it was her old TPS hat).
In one of the playthroughs he says "wait until you see my new body" - I originally took that as him having an actual body that he can inhabit (possibly one of those immortality exoskeletons, or more worryingly, Timothy), but in hindsight I think he might be referring to Helios itself.
Apologies for being slightly off topic, but have the immortality exoskeletons ever had a mention in the series before? I did a double take when Jack mentioned it, and couldn't remember if it'd been brought up previously. (I hope Jack hasn't somehow brought Angel back from the dead and put her in one, yikes.)
I didn't get that line (does it happen if you reject him maybe?) but I saw it mentioned and it's really intriguing... I mean, he may be referring to Helios, but if so, why say 'wait until you see..'? We're kinda seeing it now, with Jack being already uploaded at that point, right? Hmm.
Why would you say that?! And here I thought her story couldn't get any more tragic...
As for them appearing previously, I've been wracking my brain but I don't think so(?) - I mean, we've got the exoskeletons that the Hyperion engineers wear but given how many I've killed they definitely don't grant the wearer immortality. And as far as we know the main thing Nakayama was working on in BL2 was a Jack clone (potentially to put the AI in).
Actually, I just youtubed the ending to make sure I was remembering correctly and turns out I'm totally lying. He actually says this:
Considering it happens as he's uploading into Helios and just before the big reveal I definitely think he's talking about the space station itself (and yes this is in the reject playthrough - which, even watching just those final 30 seconds, still managed to give me goosebumps).
this hit me
I KNOW he is a manipulative, charming asshole dude. but this still hurts 
stroking picture of HJ while whispering 'I love you'
I am definitely not the one telling him his daughter is dead.
I'm really hoping that wasn't what he meant by going to see her. Urrrgggh. No-no-no-no-no-nope-nope-nope-nope.
If they haven't mentioned the exoskeletons before, it is an interesting plot-point for them to introduce - it could be intriguing (and insanely horrifying!) to see where it goes in the future. Goddamnit, Jack, just stop it with the nightmare fuel.
Yeah, it definitely seems like Chekov's immortality-exoskeleton-arm-thing (wow, that's definitely not quite as snappy as 'gun')...
He says that, but also says what you previously thought he says also. I just can't remember how, but I remember in my alternate playthrough he did,
Wow.. HJ fans react exactly as Kenny fans from TWD forum section..
Its kinda sad to see history repeat itself
I gotta say, as scary as the "Reject Jack" ending is, Clarke does an absolutely incredible job.
I sided with Jack, but even if you didn't, you gotta admit he sounds incredibly badass at the same time as terrifying.
"I - am Handsome goddamned Jack!"
I didn't realise that one of the reject dialogue options was for Rhys to tell Jack that the Vault Hunters killed his friends and family, and that Jack had died in a volcano. (Now I'm a bit confused if Rhys knew Jack had a daughter previously, or if he was just generalising for drama. The non-upgraded Echo eye registers Angel as Jack's daughter, doesn't it? I'm assuming Hyperion must know a little about her, sans the top-secret Siren info. I can't remember if Jack mentioned Angel to Hyperion/Pandora after the Vault Hunters killed her, or whether he just called them murderers over the ECHO without being specific.)
Either way, damn, Rhys. Yes, let's poke the already pissed-off megalomaniac.
Gah, now I don't know what to believe - I really thought he said the first, but convinced myself I got it mixed up. MYSTERIES ABOUND!
After Angel was killed Jack sent out a message to the whole planet stating that his daughter was killed by Vault Hunters, so everyone on Pandora should know that he had a daughter.
that's true
I don't know how he couldn't know moments after getting into Helios. I'd think Jack's AI would immediately tap into the data file Hyperion has and I'm sure in there are some of his own final notes about his daughter's death. And I'm not exactly fearful for our groups safety, Jack's hatred mostly stems from traitors, vault hunters, and psychopaths/bandits, and I wouldn't consider anyone in the group to fit any of those requirements. Even though I did refuse him, I don't think he'd see that as a betrayal since we never really agreed beforehand to do that anyway.
But I am worried for Pandora, with Jack back in the kingdom and with arguably more control than ever, I'm afraid he'll go right back to what he was originally trying to do but with much more gusto. Especially once he finds out about Angel and his real body's fate, Jack is going to be pissed and ready to spill some blood by the gallons.
Plus there's the worry about his comment about his new body. I like to chalk that up to him just meaning Helios itself, but can you honestly say he wouldn't be so prepared to have a robot body his AI duplicate could jump into? I mean he had enough foresight to make an AI of himself and need I mention Tim, the guy had/has back-up plans for his back-up plans.
Come on, we knew it's gonna happen. It's Jack. That's how he rolls.
Also cause in his Jackapedia he mocks everyone and everything, why would he do that with her?
I think Jack is actually willing to work with Rhys in the end if you side with him. I mean in that play through its like they're partners. But Rhys rejecting him kinda just came out of the blue, and was weird the way he put it. I mean if I was denied like that, all my sympathy for Rhys would be thrown out the window.
If you hesitated, I feel like it Telltales simply just plugged the reject scene even though it should've been worded probably a bit differently, and had its own type of ending. Maybe more like "Sorry Kiddo, its time I start pushing you forward" Or "Just do it! (Shia LeBeouf Parady).