Kenny vs Jane: Why both choices are correct.
I'm sorry this is a long post, but it's a complex issue. I hope you read through, and consider what I have to say. Debate and input are both welcomed:
After I finished playing, I jumped on the forums and was drowned beneath the talking points of the Jane vs. Kenny debate. It is a point of much contention. And understandably, as it was almost a fifty percent split on how people decided to chose. So here’s my take on it, if anyone even cares anymore…
After watching all the alternate endings, I can't say if the ending where you let Kenny kill Jane, followed by letting him take Clem to Wellington, and finishing with him leaving her behind, is the the ending Telltale intended as the “morally right ending”. If shooting Kenny and saving Jane was the wrong choice, the storyline certainly doesn’t outwardly indicate that. It seemed like a grey decision wither way. That’s what this game is about, right? Making hard moral judgments, and living with the outcome. It’s funny how we all torture ourselves with the stress of these fictional characters. But that’s why the game is so good.
The entire game is full of these subtle suggestions that Kenny is unstable. Keep in mind; he beat Carver to death when Sarita was still alive. She even tried to stop Clem from watching. And if you stay, it gives credence to the idea that Kenny’s personality has the potential to sway Clementine down dark paths. I think this is what that flashback after Clem gets shot is leading you to believe. It, in so many words, explains how sometimes when people lose too much, they can break. Can a broken person be fixed? Or is it just better to end a broken person’s suffering? Both answers are correct.
Was Kenny wrong to kill Carver? Hell no. Could he have done it a little more humanely? Yes, he could have shot Carver. After they get through the herd, that first time you try to reason with Kenny after Sarita dies, he looks at you like he wants to rip your throat out right then. That stayed with me. He was looking for someone to transfer his pain to, and luckily for Clem, they later find Arvo. But if they hadn’t run into the Russians, who would he have put that burden on? Clementine? Perhaps. He almost blames her outright, during that first interaction after making it through the herd. But Kenny isn’t a bad man, not like Carver.
If you chose Kenny over Jane, and don’t leave or kill him, you eventually help him find a way to shed the anger that plagues him. You help him find redemption. Remember, bullies sometimes pick on others to fill shortcomings they perceive in themselves. But if you give them an alternative, they sometimes take it. However, think about this: if Clem had to make the same call for little Alvie that she did with Sarita, how do you think Kenny would have reacted? I think this is the point Jane was trying to make.
Jane isn’t a bad person, not like Carver. She’s good people, in the same way Kenny is. She, like Kenny, is burdened with mistakes in her past that haunt her wherever she goes. She tells Clementine these stories of her sorted past, but not in a way that glamorizes them. She does it in the same way Lee told stories of his own troubles. She wants Clem to learn from mistakes she made, so that Clementine never has to make them herself. She cares for Clem. She sees a way through Clementine to redemption, in a similar way that Kenny sees one through Alvie. Jane does rescue Clem from the ice, and comes back to save the group from the Russians. Does Jane still do messed up things? Yeah, she’s a little crazy. That stunt with Alvie was wrong. But Kenny is also crazy, and Kenny also makes mistakes.
The problem with Jane is that you only get two chapters with her. Her role in Chapter three is too insignificant to pull anything useful from, so we really don’t know too much about her. Would the audience view her as manipulative or supportive if she were in more of the story? Who knows. But the fact remains, if you give Jane the choice during her ending, she lets the family inside the compound. And it should be pointed out, she didn’t actually Kill Alvie. If she’s truly as bad as some people say she is, then why didn’t she just lose the kid entirely? She wants to look after Alvie too, because that is what Clem thinks is important. And Clementine is Jane’s moral compass. Kenny has no external moral compass, or chooses not to rely on it as much. You’re lucky he listens to you half the time. Was Sarita his “good angel”? Don’t think so. He listens to her about as much as does Clementine, and about as much as he did with Lee. So, who do you side with?
I believe either ending is credible. Clementine isn’t a bad person. In fact, she’s probably the most moralistic and righteous character out of both seasons. She has become the central protagonist of this story, and so she will find her way. They have already announced the third season. And I believe that third season will see Clem come to terms with whichever decisions she makes. Remember, there are three different ways to go it alone at the end. The one where she shoots Kenny after he kills Jane is especially unnerving. I read a post on here, somewhere, that speculated either Jane or Kenny won’t make it in the next game, depending on how you chose at the end. This makes sense. I bet you that both of them die saving Clem. I bet this happens in the first chapter. This would make either choice you make at the end of season 2 the correct choice. Both characters would be shown as being legitimacy selfless, despite their respective self-absorptions, and in doing so would they will lead Clementine to ultimate redemption herself. And how will that turn out? I think it will somehow involve Christa, who lost a child and husband, the latter being Clem's fault. We have no reason to believe Christa isn’t still out there, somewhere. Will I be right? I can’t wait to find out.
I shot Kenny and saved Jane. And when I eventually let the family in the compound, I chose the lines: ”I’m not sure about anything anymore.” Jane follows this up with, “It’s not much, but we’ll make it better.” And we will make it better, because friends don’t leave friends behind.
Comments
Everybody's Clem is different. No choice is wrong. Just like Lee said. "It's not like math, Clem, sometime's there just isn't a right answer."
There need to be more threads like this. I didn't say anything to Jane and you go with her by default. An added bonus in that I get extra protection for the baby without having to overtly forgive Jane.
You made some very great points in this thread! I chose the same choices as you and I agree with everything you said. There aren't any right or wrong choices, because every Clementine is not similar with others. You have built up her strength and personality a little yourself and it can't possibly be any wrong decisions!
There you go. Fixed it for ya, bud.
This.
Nothing annoyed me more in the wake of No Going Back than threads calling choices not related to Wellington 'incorrect' and 'invalid'.
Sometimes I still don't get why so many people have killed Kenny. I mean, don't you have that feeling about him.. about what he's been through? Like, from Season 1. You just shot him? I was watching some videos on YouTube where people just shot him without even thinking. Like it's nothing. What is wrong with it? "Oh, no, Kenny is danger! Kenny is insane, look at him!" No, he is not. He lost pretty much everything that he cares about and knowing that AJ is gone. Just think about it. What it looks like to you If you were Kenny. I don't think that neither of you in the moment of saying that AJ is gone, you were just pretending that everything is fine. I always see Kenny as a man who care about everyone he loves. Kenny is had enough and the only way to kill him is compassion. Apparently, his life at that moment is torture.
Yeah, I assume that you are gonna tell me. That's right! I'm fan of this character. It pissed me off when there was a choice to kill him.
To each his own. I didnt pick Kenny because it is obvious he has issues and is mentally traumatized. And some people have their opinions on Jane. But I picked Jane because in my opinion I just felt that it would be the safer route for My Clem.
Lots of people killed him because Jane's story about the trapped man in episode 5 is accurate.
How many people have to die or leave the group for one person. Clem loses Mike and Bonnie and is shot by Arvo because of Kenny's abuse, Walter dies because of Kenny...and now Jane too?
The question is, how much damage can one person cause before them being out of the picture is preferable. Jane proved that Kenny was dangerous, regardless of the lie, and this convinced people that it would overall be better for everyone if Kenny died rather than letting him cause the death/abandonment of even more people.
I think the dream sequence with Lee was meant to be just what Clementine needed to hear, and to suggest that anything you choose, as long as it feels right to you, is the right decision. I say this because of two lines Lee gives. 1: "Yeah, but part of growing up is doing what's best for the people you care about. Even if sometimes, that means hurting someone else." Lee would know this. Remember how many times you did what was best for Clementine at someone else's expense or irritation back in Season One. And 2: "It's not like math... sometimes there just isn't a right answer." This is referring to the moral grey area the game represents, and trying to let you know that whatever you choose is just as right or wrong as what anyone else did.
Personally, I saved Kenny, because it was what felt the most right to me. If you went with Jane, your choice was just as right as mine was, because you thought it was the right one.
This should have stopped the KvsJ threads. Moment Kenny or Jane is brought up on a comment, shit gets on the fan.
Both Kenny and Jane are dangerous to go with. Jane is always at flight risk as she showed earlier in the season when she abandoned the group only to come back later and Kenny was driven mad by his losses. I doubt that Jane will leave Clementine, because she loves her so much, but if you form a big group and welcome a bunch of people in season 3, Jane will probably be tempted to leave (cause she thinks being alone is safer). Jane might be the better choice based on the fact that she is a more calm and safer person, but Clem has known Kenny a lot longer then Jane.
I chose to let Kenny kill Jane simply because i couldn't kill Kenny after all this time. We found Wellington and I gave in to Kenny's wishes to stay without him (and cried my eyes of) and because it was the safest alternative for Clem
On that note, how long does the "he lost everyone he loves" excuse apply and why does it only apply to him? Thats what gets to me.
I know it sound cruel, but just because he had suffered a lot doesn't give him the excause to kill Jean.
Remember at the Hershal's farm when Kenny let Harshal's son died without doing anything? What you feel if Harshal kill Kenny for that? And now Kenny want Jean died for couldn't protect AJ. How's that's fair?
I killed Jane and stayed with Kenny. What I enjoyed so much at the end is that Jane died. I hated her since the beginning. She was so annoying.
I hate math
me too
if you think about it jane caused the group to die by threatning arvo that attacked their group that shot Clemintine
she wanted you to kill Nick so fast leave leave Sarah and dont break the ice for Luke and put aj life at risk so clem would kill Kenny just to prove a point.
Ikr
Clem lost her parents, Lee, and so many more people but as soon as Kenny lost Sarita, he acted like she was satan and had caused all of the evil in the world.
man what do you have against jane, its really sadistic that you enjoyed her death
In the end, you choose whoever you care about the most, that's all that matters. There's no right or wrong choice.
She was annoying.
So true Dark_Star
danny_wallbanger, this post I think speaks volumes on the issue
I chose as Clem's final dialogue: "Maybe we can start something here, Jane. It's not much...but we'll make it better"
I like to believe that will be possible. I hope.
You say both choices were correct for different reason, but what about if I chose neither?
Then that's fine too.
Similarly, if you think about it, Mike and Bonnie left the group because Kenny physically abused Arvo, and he shot Clementine while trying to escape Kenny.
Both Jane and Kenny have caused shit. That's the point. It comes down to who you think has caused less harm and sadness for other people, and in my mind that pretty clearly came down to Jane.
There is no right or wrong. You make difficult decisions, in difficult situations, and you end up with a lot of sorrow, and regret. With a hint of hope, and happiness. Knowing, that things are not going to get any easier.
Both are good points. People have their opinions and it's good to have opinions. Otherwise, it'd be boring as hell. Even though Kenny messes up, he cared about the baby and Jane risked the baby to show his "true colors". She may have been right but what she did wasn't any better. I think I'd just let Kenny kill her and then I shoot Kenny.
Even this thread has turned into a few small arguments. People don't get that this is a game where opinions are key. Im sorry, but this is 100% true. Everyone that comments in the Kenny vs Jane threads and says that the other side is wrong, and "how can you believe that?", without respecting the fact that everyone has a different play through (the whole point of the game...), is an idiot. End of story. It is perfectly fine to argue, make opinions and form judgements, but as soon as you completely disregard the other side every single point you have made loses its validity. Good topic thread. By the way...I'm on Kenny's side through all this, but, as stated before, I understand that everyone has a different play through and even though I hate Jane with a passion, I can respect the opinions people form that like her...after all, that is THEIR story.
No, everyone's Clem is the same.
I didn't make a decision between Kenny and Jane, I was terrified as I realised that Kenny was close to killing Jane so just 'shot Kenny', not to necessarily kill him but to stop the fight. Other attempts at stopping the fight had failed. I am terrified so I shoot. Unfortunately, it's a fatal shot which really upsets me and I feel even more angry and upset when I find out that Jane had created the situation. I tell her I forgive her, I didn't really forgive her but I'm a terrified 11 year old in a terrifying world and don't want to be left on my own. I decide to let the family in as I feel safer in a bigger group and they seem ok. They have a kid my age as well which is why I can't turn them away. I'm still angry at Jane and this may manifest itself later in season 3.....
I couldn't kill kenny after the stories we had.I killed lee in season 1 and i felt so bad to be the guy that kills his favorite second character too.so at any point the fight was fair by me because jane started it and lost!!!! I like jane too,but kenny because i know him and he knows me for a long time.i said instead of killing kenny we have to fix him.it is not east.if kenny's shit happens to you,what will you do,you just simply kill yourself?????and my last reason,jane WANTED the fight,why???why????why????because she wanted to back to that shity camp,and have clem for herself,and at any point willington was real cause christa said it too.
Kenny started it by pinning Jane against the wall. She was even saying that she hadn't killed AJ and that it had been an accident, but he didn't let her talk.
Because she wanted to show Clementine that Kenny could flip out easily when provoked, even if he meant well, which would've been dangerous for everyone once they had settled in a bigger group.
What's wrong with that? Kenny wanted to have Clem and AJ for himself too.
I also killed Jane, because I could never trust her and I hate her
I agree with you
I think Jane was jealousy but Kenny and Clementine's friendship.
Kenny became obsessed with Clementine, even though they were never seen talking in Season 1, except for one time in which she told him that Duck was sick, and he brushed her off by telling her to get on the train. Could he have been attempting to replace Duck? It's likely, because we see that he lost most interest on Clementine as soon as AJ was born. I'm not taking that as friendship—especially since some players were waiting to get away from him as soon as possible—unless you make Clem follow him everywhere and let him make decisions for her and for Rebecca's baby.
I don't think Jane was jealous of Kenny. She was genuinely trying to get her to see how dangerous being around him was. Of course, that's a matter of opinion, but I can't see it any other way. I explicitly want to state that it doesn't mean Kenny wasn't doing what he thought was best for the two kids.
Well you make good points...and I agree with you. Of course this will not stop the Kenny vs Jane threads....but I am tired of them.