Yeah most likely that the best way, let's just sit and wait for them to kill us. After all violence is baaaad and we will defeat them with power of love and crayons...
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
I do morurn the dead, it's the living that disgust me. Belagians became so pathetic that it isn't even funny.
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Imams get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Option two is that the Men of Belgium( If there are any left) should take the matters in their own hands since the state is unwilling and so incomeptent that this happened in the middle of the anti-terrist opperation.
Not my area of expertise.
How convenient...
For the country itself there probably isn't much that can be done. Mourn the dead,… more which you apparently have a problem with. Perhaps some sort of increase in security, but I find it hard to believe security could be ramped up much more than it already is. As for the Islamic State, keep knocking them down. Why do you think they're attacking the west so much? It isn't because they're doing well, that's for certain.
I do morurn the dead, it's the living that disgust me. Belagians became so pathetic that it isn't even funny.
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Imams get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Option two is that the Men of Belgium( If there are any left) should take the matters in their … [view original content]
Yeah most likely that the best way, let's just sit and wait for them to kill us. After all violence is baaaad and we will defeat them with power of love and crayons...
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Haha, what?
Haven't you heard? They were having largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
How convenient...
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially … morewise, politically wise, or any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
I do morurn the dead, it's the living that disgust me. Belagians became so pathetic that it isn't even funny.
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Imams get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Option two is that the Men of Belgium( If the… [view original content]
I agree that people should be judged by their actions, but condemning the entire Muslim community on the actions of few, or even some is an injustice. Do you agree? Why or why not?
The point I'm making is simply that people prove what they are by what they do.
And that if a person's actions don't line up with their wor… moreds, their words are hollow, and therefore they are hypocrites.
I've see those kinds of people my whole life, and no matter what their skin color, racial, social, or religiosity background is, they're behavioral patterns are pretty much the same.
So no matter what the Koran may teach - even if it were a religion that preaches peace - the actions of its members say otherwise.
Now, before this goes any further, it is quite obvious that neither one of us is going to change the other's viewpoint on this issue. So with that said I believe that the best thing to do here would be to end things here, and that's we leave it on a peaceful note.
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or… more any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Haha, what?
Haven't you heard? They were having largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
Calm and rational heads should discuss and decide the best approach, if that's what you were trying to get at.
Don't put words in my mouth.
I'm trying to decipher your distaste of the picture, seeing as you won't answer the question I posed earlier.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
No, just people. People with rights, like all the other people. People no less deserving of those rights than other people. People you want to take those rights away from.
that we have to care about terrorists right
Also this is a very telling sign, and I highly suggest you ponder it for a while until you understand why. I'm not going to call it a Fruidian slip, but it speaks a lot about the position you hold.
Haven't you heard? They were ahving largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
I don't really care about the first part of that section. Finding two people in a crowd is a ridiculous thing to demand.
But I really am interested in what you mean by:
"And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should."
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or… more any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Haha, what?
Haven't you heard? They were having largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Told you that was the right choice.
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Imams get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Excuse me, what? Do you have any idea how bad that would be? Putting all religious and civil rights aside, that would still be plain dumb. It would solve nothing, if there were there only a few terrorists among the Muslims there, now all Muslims will protest against the government and more terrorists will appear, since you gave them the reason to do so. That would just cause more harm than it would solve!
Not my area of expertise.
How convenient...
For the country itself there probably isn't much that can be done. Mourn the dead,… more which you apparently have a problem with. Perhaps some sort of increase in security, but I find it hard to believe security could be ramped up much more than it already is. As for the Islamic State, keep knocking them down. Why do you think they're attacking the west so much? It isn't because they're doing well, that's for certain.
I do morurn the dead, it's the living that disgust me. Belagians became so pathetic that it isn't even funny.
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Imams get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Option two is that the Men of Belgium( If there are any left) should take the matters in their … [view original content]
Eh, I won't begrudge people their minor acts of solidarity. Everyone reacts to shit in their own way and I see no harm in what they're doing.
On the other hand, I can't stomach the people who make money exploiting these tragedies. Just wait a day or two, commemorative t-shirts, coffee mugs, key chains and other crap will be flooding the market. A lot of people profited off the Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan attacks, I can't see this one being any different.
Yeah, arrest innocent people is the right thing to do! Violate their rights of properties! Every muslim is guilty!
It's the better way to get every muslims to the ISIS's cause. Not to mention from a law's POV, a country acting like that would be punished by international community and european union.
France put the state of urgency (where law can be bent): it doesn't work better. Also France uses this for her interest, to keep ecologists militants away from the COP21 for example.
You want to arrest all the muslims? Special security services know them for the most part: but if they act, the terrorists who are still free and not known from them will hide even more, and it will be totally impossible to get them.
Acting like you want is simply not being a man, it's just being as sauvage as them, acting like these craven.
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or… more any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Haha, what?
Haven't you heard? They were having largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
Calm and rational heads should discuss and decide the best approach, if that's what you were trying to get at.
It always goes that way. Let's DISCUSS! and then do nothing...
I'm trying to decipher your distaste of the picture, seeing as you won't answer the question I posed earlier.
Their docile reaction disgust me. They got punched in the face yet they draw flowers at the assilant feet instead of punching back.
Also this is a very telling sign, and I highly suggest you ponder it for a while until you understand why. I'm not going to call it a Fruidian slip, but it speaks a lot about the position you hold.
No, just people. People with rights, like all the other people. People no less deserving of those rights than other people. People you want to take those rights away from.
The so called human rights prevent any real action from being taken. they are the shield that protect those that should be pusniehd.
"And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should."
Do I really have to spell it out? They should grab arms and take an action.
Look You and I will never agree. I can't even begin to understand your pacifistic ways, do you even know how to hate?
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
Calm and rational heads should discuss … moreand decide the best approach, if that's what you were trying to get at.
Don't put words in my mouth.
I'm trying to decipher your distaste of the picture, seeing as you won't answer the question I posed earlier.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
No, just people. People with rights, like all the other people. People no less deserving of those rights than other people. People you want to take those rights away from.
that we have to care about terrorists right
Also this is a very telling sign, and I highly suggest you ponder it for a while until you understand why. I'm not going to call it a Fruidian slip, but it speaks a lot about the position you hold.
Haven't you hea… [view original content]
What Belgium should do is to shut down all Mosques for the time being, seal them and then thoroughly for any links to terrists. If found Ima… morems get arrested instatly while those that attended should have their property searched. That's the calm and rational way.
Excuse me, what? Do you have any idea how bad that would be? Putting all religious and civil rights aside, that would still be plain dumb. It would solve nothing, if there were there only a few terrorists among the Muslims there, now all Muslims will protest against the government and more terrorists will appear, since you gave them the reason to do so. That would just cause more harm than it would solve!
Yeah, arrest innocent people is the right thing to do! Violate their rights of properties! Every muslim is guilty!
It's the better way to g… moreet every muslims to the ISIS's cause. Not to mention from a law's POV, a country acting like that would be punished by international community and european union.
France put the state of urgency (where law can be bent): it doesn't work better. Also France uses this for her interest, to keep ecologists militants away from the COP21 for example.
You want to arrest all the muslims? Special security services know them for the most part: but if they act, the terrorists who are still free and not known from them will hide even more, and it will be totally impossible to get them.
Acting like you want is simply not being a man, it's just being as sauvage as them, acting like these craven.
It always goes that way. Let's DISCUSS! and then do nothing...
No, it doesn't. The Islamic State consistently losing territory and sway is evidence of that not being the case. The massive amounts of airstrikes, training being given to militias to fight against ISIS, and support for groups fighting against ISIS is proof of this not being the case.
Their docile reaction disgust me. They got punched in the face yet they draw flowers at the assilant feet instead of punching back.
So, AGAIN, what would you have them doing in the picture? What action do you want them to be doing to mourn the dead that would tickle your fancy?
The so called human rights prevent any real action from being taken. they are the shield that protect those that should be pusniehd.
Pesky human rights interfering with what you want done. Maybe we should just do away with them, since they just seem to get in the way.
Do I really have to spell it out? They should grab arms and take an action.
Yes, spell it out. I'm confused. Don't skip a single detail in this "raising arms" you want to see take place. Please and thank you.
Look You and I will never agree.
No, we will not. Because I don't believe in removing peoples rights unless they have necessitated their removal (hence I support prison).
I can't even begin to understand your pacifistic ways, do you even know how to hate?
Do I hate? I used to. I used to hate a lot of things. Do you know what hate breeds? More hate, and more hate, and yet more hate. I'm not a pacifist. I could and would kill under the right circumstances, but not out of hate. In fact, I'm fairly sure I would only do it for the opposite.
What?
Calm and rational heads should discuss and decide the best approach, if that's what you were trying to get at.
It alway… mores goes that way. Let's DISCUSS! and then do nothing...
I'm trying to decipher your distaste of the picture, seeing as you won't answer the question I posed earlier.
Their docile reaction disgust me. They got punched in the face yet they draw flowers at the assilant feet instead of punching back.
Also this is a very telling sign, and I highly suggest you ponder it for a while until you understand why. I'm not going to call it a Fruidian slip, but it speaks a lot about the position you hold.
No, just people. People with rights, like all the other people. People no less deserving of those rights than other people. People you want to take those rights away from.
The so called human rights prevent any real action from being taken. they are the shield that protect those that s… [view original content]
Are you aware that Belgium is considered European terrorist nest?
No, I'm not. But still, that's not how you solve anything.
Ok then as a Muslim what do you propose that should be done?
I think if the government really wanted to solve anything, they should go in two ways:
Go Cyber, attack any website, Facebook page, blog or YouTube channel that may have anything to do with ISIS or terrorism in general. That could prevent a huge portion of the communications that ISIS does with it's people in pretty much anywhere.
Have stronger and bolder regulations on immigrants with a Muslim background (and I mean a Muslim country, not Muslims in general), fight illegal immigration by any means necessary.
You see? The harm mostly comes from the outside not the inside.
Are you aware that Belgium is considered European terrorist nest?
No, I'm not. But still, that's not how you solve anything.
O… morek then as a Muslim what do you propose that should be done?
I think if the government really wanted to solve anything, they should go in two ways:
* Go Cyber, attack any website, Facebook page, blog or YouTube channel that may have anything to do with ISIS or terrorism in general. That could prevent a huge portion of the communications that ISIS does with it's people in pretty much anywhere.
* Have stronger and bolder regulations on immigrants with a Muslim background (and I mean a Muslim country, not Muslims in general), fight illegal immigration by any means necessary.
You see? The harm mostly comes from the outside not the inside.
"We"? Who are "we"?
War means an action between two identities. As far as I know, muslims aren't the Islamic State. The only war which exists is the one between countries and the islamic state.
France is bombing them since two years, give weapons to the ones fighting them.. And it's not the only one doing things against them; if you look at the coalition against the islamic state, there are 22 countries involved.
The only thing I don't understand is why they don't send ground troops. Maybe they fear to have the anger of the locals.. America's war for oil didn't help to give them trust.
Maybe the economy's crisis put a problem to use/hire soldiers too (it would be quite pitiful if it's for this motive though..)
What should be done? There's no true solution, otherwise it would have been already taken. So keep fighting until it ends, security services keep doing their jobs and one day it should be back to normal. But hitting civilians? Using your grief for what some fools did against them? It's the better way to give them free soldiers to their cause.
No, it doesn't. The Islamic State consistently losing territory and sway is evidence of that not being the case. The massive amounts of airstrikes, training being given to militias to fight against ISIS, and support for groups fighting against ISIS is proof of this not being the case.
You mean by Russia, Assad and YPG? Since Westen coaliton doesn't do shit. They only recently started to bombard ISIS tankers because Russia started doing that...you want to know why the didn't? So the poor drivers won't be killed...
So, AGAIN, what would you have them doing in the picture? What action do you want them to be doing to mourn the dead that would tickle your fancy?
Cool down, I see you getting worked up. I already answered that, eye for an eye
Pesky human rights interfering with what you want done. Maybe we should just do away with them, since they just seem to get in the way.
The funny thing that we do away with them...you know how? Under the guise of war with terrorism. The invigilation of people's private date the slowly rising competence of secret service and police... Step by step, every time terrorist strike the state give itself little more power over us...
Yes, spell it out. I'm confused. Don't skip a single detail in this "raising arms" you want to see take place. Please and thank you.
They should fight. Here I said that.
No, we will not. Because I don't believe in removing peoples rights unless they have necessitated their removal (hence I support prison).
Too lenient.
Do I hate? I used to. I used to hate a lot of things. Do you know what hate breeds? More hate, and more hate, and yet more hate. I'm not a pacifist. I could and would kill under the right circumstances, but not out of hate. In fact, I'm fairly sure I would only do it for the opposite.
Killing for love...you know how easily I could twist that to suit my needs? But I won't I repect that at least you would not lie down and be rolled over but there's a need for respone. Strong and terrifying one, because if we won't show them that it's better not to fuck with us they will continiue doing this forever and no amount of discussing, flower painting profile changing will do squad against them.
It's late and I'm off to sleep. Let's leave it at that.
It always goes that way. Let's DISCUSS! and then do nothing...
No, it doesn't. The Islamic State consistently losing territory and s… moreway is evidence of that not being the case. The massive amounts of airstrikes, training being given to militias to fight against ISIS, and support for groups fighting against ISIS is proof of this not being the case.
Their docile reaction disgust me. They got punched in the face yet they draw flowers at the assilant feet instead of punching back.
So, AGAIN, what would you have them doing in the picture? What action do you want them to be doing to mourn the dead that would tickle your fancy?
The so called human rights prevent any real action from being taken. they are the shield that protect those that should be pusniehd.
Pesky human rights interfering with what you want done. Maybe we should just do away with them, since they just seem to get in the way.
Do I really have … [view original content]
Go Cyber, attack any website, Facebook page, blog or YouTube channel that may have anything to do with ISIS or terrorism in general. That could prevent a huge portion of the communications that ISIS does with it's people in pretty much anywhere.
that's valid but what about Imams who preach about it in Mosques?
Have stronger and bolder regulations on immigrants with a Muslim background (and I mean a Muslim country, not Muslims in general), fight illegal immigration by any means necessary.
See that's the problems europe is incapable of doing that thanks to the yeas of tolerance. Imagine if Macedonias started to shoot at the illegal migrants...
You see? The harm mostly comes from the outside not the inside.
Not exactly for example the brain of paris attacks Abdelhamid Abaaoud was born in Belgium... Other terroris I can't recall his name was born in france...I wouldn't be suprised if those three were Europe born too...
Are you aware that Belgium is considered European terrorist nest?
No, I'm not. But still, that's not how you solve anything.
O… morek then as a Muslim what do you propose that should be done?
I think if the government really wanted to solve anything, they should go in two ways:
* Go Cyber, attack any website, Facebook page, blog or YouTube channel that may have anything to do with ISIS or terrorism in general. That could prevent a huge portion of the communications that ISIS does with it's people in pretty much anywhere.
* Have stronger and bolder regulations on immigrants with a Muslim background (and I mean a Muslim country, not Muslims in general), fight illegal immigration by any means necessary.
You see? The harm mostly comes from the outside not the inside.
You know, checking whether they come from more conservative countrys or not, whether their country is part of the ongoing war in Iraq and Sham and how suited they are and their ideology for life in Europe in general, and if they don't meet the requirements the government is ought to outright ban them from passing it's borders. It may be a lengthy and expensive process, but it's better than having to afford fixing up areas bombarded by terrorists and would save them a fortune later on.
I feel like I'm talking like Trump right now, but in a state like this? It's the only possible and least harmful solution they got right now.
I'm just going to close this thread for a little bit because with the Brussel attacks it's getting a little too heated, and so you all can cool your jets and looking at like 3 posts I think you all need that so we don't do anything we don't regret. It will be unlocked in a few days.
If you'd like to talk about this privately, that would be fine. But I don't wish do so publically, as I don't want this thread to be closed again, this time for good, due to anything we might say to each other.
I don't want anything we say to each other to effect others in a negative way.
Not so fast.
I agree that people should be judged by their actions, but condemning the entire Muslim community on the actions of few, or even some is an injustice. Do you agree? Why or why not?
Again, these are not the majority. How many times must I explain this to you?
Sweden:
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Uk
enter … morelink description here
France:
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And my personal favorite:
enter link description here
Funny how numerous the evil minnority is...but you're right those is still minority. But history proved that what's matter is not a passive Majorty but an active minority...
^that also I heard that some teacher in holland tweeted that muslims kids started clapping when they heard about the attack...he got a visit from police lecturing him about hate speech few hours later
I like pointing out that even though the race can be hated of what they represent in general, the real culprit is their book that they use as literal instruction of how they should live.
Oh boy, Clord has it all figured out! It's all the book's fault everybody! And here I was thinking Islamic extremism is complex, multi-faceted social problem. How silly!! Call off the sociologists! Call off the counter-terror experts, and put that crazy pastor from Florida on the phone. It's time to burn some Qu'rans!
I like pointing out that even though the race can be hated of what they represent in general, the real culprit is their book that they use a… mores literal instruction of how they should live.
Oh boy, Clord has it all figured out! It's all the book's fault everybody! And here I was thinking Islamic extremism is complex, multi-faceted social problem. How silly!! Call off the sociologists! Call off the counter-terror experts, and put that crazy pastor from Florida on the phone. It's time to burn some Qu'rans!
I think it's worth noting that while Daesh the terrorist organization is flourishing, Daesh the fighting force is being soundly thrashed on pretty much every front.
A couple days ago they lost Palmyra to the Assad regime, which is a pretty serious blow. Hopefully, some of the cultural relics there are still intact..
^that also I heard that some teacher in holland tweeted that muslims kids started clapping when they heard about the attack...he got a visit from police lecturing him about hate speech few hours later
Well Belgian's far right people went to protest but were chased away by police...sadly I see only thee ways here.
West will snap out of it's stupidity and change it's ridiculous policies and force migrants to accept their culture and obey their laws.
They will go down that road and soon we will have Euroarabia.
Or the radical far right movement will gain power and we will have Holocaust 2,0 Muslim edition.
1st option is rather idle wishing so it's between option 2&3 either way the west is screwed for me. I just hope Eastern Europe will manage to reform and re-arm itself in time to survie the oncoming storm. I guess you should wish us luck.
"We"? Who are "we"? War means an action between two identities. As far as I know, muslims aren't the Islamic State. The only war which exists is the one between countries and the islamic state.
I refer to Euro-American or more precisely Christian civilization against muslim one. and in case you didn't get the memo we've been at war with muslims for over fourteen centruries. This time around instead of war they try to outbreed us.
France is bombing them since two years, give weapons to the ones fighting them.. And it's not the only one doing things against them; if you look at the coalition against the islamic state, there are 22 countries involved.
The only thing I don't understand is why they don't send ground troops. Maybe they fear to have the anger of the locals.. America's war for oil didn't help to give them trust. Maybe the economy's crisis put a problem to use/hire soldiers too (it would be quite pitiful if it's for this motive though..)
For two reason, one like you said money, it cost a lot of cash to conduct war. Second reason is that their mulims would most likely riot if they sent army there.
What should be done? There's no true solution, otherwise it would have been already taken. So keep fighting until it ends, security services keep doing their jobs and one day it should be back to normal. But hitting civilians? Using your grief for what some fools did against them? It's the better way to give them free soldiers to their cause.
There are solutions, goverments are just afraid to take them, and will wait until it's too late. Also tell me how many people killed in those terrist attacks were soliders? That's right. They don't hold their punches so we shouldn't too. There are no civilians in this war.
"We"? Who are "we"?
War means an action between two identities. As far as I know, muslims aren't the Islamic State. The only war which exi… morests is the one between countries and the islamic state.
France is bombing them since two years, give weapons to the ones fighting them.. And it's not the only one doing things against them; if you look at the coalition against the islamic state, there are 22 countries involved.
The only thing I don't understand is why they don't send ground troops. Maybe they fear to have the anger of the locals.. America's war for oil didn't help to give them trust.
Maybe the economy's crisis put a problem to use/hire soldiers too (it would be quite pitiful if it's for this motive though..)
What should be done? There's no true solution, otherwise it would have been already taken. So keep fighting until it ends, security services keep doing their jobs and one day it should be back to normal. But hitting civilian… [view original content]
Because you think this war invented traitors? All those terrorists went in Syria, being trained and all the stuffs. They're losing territories right now.
"At war with muslims?" As far as I remember it only happened in dark ages. My ancestors were some minor nobles and I won't bear grudge with muslims of today because their ancestors might have been at war with mines, half a thousand of years ago.
So well.. Who cares now? My country was also an ally with the ottoman empire; muslims in colonies helped us in two world war for almost no cost for them. I'm pretty sure there were muslims in them.
You keep saying people have no guts to take the true solution..
Between the one who fight the real threat and stay true to their ideals and the one wanting to hide behind his walls and doing a witch hunt, there's no doubt about who the coward is.
"We"? Who are "we"? War means an action between two identities. As far as I know, muslims aren't the Islamic State. The only war which exist… mores is the one between countries and the islamic state.
I refer to Euro-American or more precisely Christian civilization against muslim one. and in case you didn't get the memo we've been at war with muslims for over fourteen centruries. This time around instead of war they try to outbreed us.
France is bombing them since two years, give weapons to the ones fighting them.. And it's not the only one doing things against them; if you look at the coalition against the islamic state, there are 22 countries involved.
The only thing I don't understand is why they don't send ground troops. Maybe they fear to have the anger of the locals.. America's war for oil didn't help to give them trust. Maybe the economy's crisis put a problem to use/hire soldiers too (it would be quite pitiful if it's f… [view original content]
Between the one who fight the real threat and stay true to their ideals and the one wanting to hide behind his walls and doing a witch hunt, there's no doubt about who the coward is.
And pray tell what the real threat is? Also what are those ideas you refer to? You seem to think that think that only valid ideas are yours and everything else is wrong. You can build a wall for example and stay true to your ideas as well.
Because you think this war invented traitors? All those terrorists went in Syria, being trained and all the stuffs. They're losing territori… morees right now.
"At war with muslims?" As far as I remember it only happened in dark ages. My ancestors were some minor nobles and I won't bear grudge with muslims of today because their ancestors might have been at war with mines, half a thousand of years ago.
So well.. Who cares now? My country was also an ally with the ottoman empire; muslims in colonies helped us in two world war for almost no cost for them. I'm pretty sure there were muslims in them.
You keep saying people have no guts to take the true solution..
Between the one who fight the real threat and stay true to their ideals and the one wanting to hide behind his walls and doing a witch hunt, there's no doubt about who the coward is.
Those ideas are democracy, freedom, rights.. Those things you would like to remove to the muslims at the first opportunity. For those ideas I'm not aiming only you, but the one who go full extremists since the attacks.
Acting against these muslim citizens-which-are-not-citizens-but-people-to-fight is as ignorant as doing a witch hunt and is cowardly: it's not an idea, it's a fact.
Between the one who fight the real threat and stay true to their ideals and the one wanting to hide behind his walls and doing a witch hunt,… more there's no doubt about who the coward is.
And pray tell what the real threat is? Also what are those ideas you refer to? You seem to think that think that only valid ideas are yours and everything else is wrong. You can build a wall for example and stay true to your ideas as well.
ISIS? Real threat? please they are just a symptoms not the real threat. The real theat are the radical muslims living within Europe, most of the recent terrorist are Europe born and raised.
Those ideas are democracy, freedom, rights..
There are all beautiful and noble ideas but don't they sound hollow among piles of corpses? Be a realist people who don't respect those ideas should not be allowed to have them in first place.
Those things you would like to remove to the muslims at the first opportunity
Trust me it's not first opportunity, they've been working really hard for the way people treat them, nothing is without a reason.
Also a witch hunt you seem to dislike so much, so please tell me how else find and neutralise the terrorist threat within?
ISIS state, if you didn't figure it out.
Those ideas are democracy, freedom, rights.. Those things you would like to remove to the muslim… mores at the first opportunity. For those ideas I'm not aiming only you, but the one who go full extremists since the attacks.
Acting against these muslim citizens-which-are-not-citizens-but-people-to-fight is as ignorant as doing a witch hunt and is cowardly: it's not an idea, it's a fact.
Comments
Yeah most likely that the best way, let's just sit and wait for them to kill us. After all violence is baaaad and we will defeat them with power of love and crayons...
Don't act condescending towards me. I don't know the inner workings of the Belgian nation security wise, socially wise, politically wise, or any other -y wise. It's not "convenient" that I don't know everything, it's honest.
So you mourn the dead, you're just disgusted by other living people mourning the dead. Understandable.
Because when horrible things happen, infringe on peoples' rights!
That's disgusting. Why not throw them all in temporary camps while they're at it.
Haha, what?
That's how our ancestors defended themselves against aggressors.
Exactly! It's just that those right-wing monsters changed history so we would belive that violence is needed!
You say that calm and rational thing should be done yet so don't know what should be done...
Don't put words in my mouth.
Ahhh the holy people right I forgot that we have to care about terrorists right....please, so you suggest we do nothing got it.
Haven't you heard? They were having largest anti-terroris operation right now...that worked well. And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should.
Not so fast.
I agree that people should be judged by their actions, but condemning the entire Muslim community on the actions of few, or even some is an injustice. Do you agree? Why or why not?
Told you that was the right choice.
Calm and rational heads should discuss and decide the best approach, if that's what you were trying to get at.
I'm trying to decipher your distaste of the picture, seeing as you won't answer the question I posed earlier.
No, just people. People with rights, like all the other people. People no less deserving of those rights than other people. People you want to take those rights away from.
Also this is a very telling sign, and I highly suggest you ponder it for a while until you understand why. I'm not going to call it a Fruidian slip, but it speaks a lot about the position you hold.
I don't really care about the first part of that section. Finding two people in a crowd is a ridiculous thing to demand.
But I really am interested in what you mean by:
"And yes if the goverment don't do anything the people should."
It's terryfing...
Excuse me, what? Do you have any idea how bad that would be? Putting all religious and civil rights aside, that would still be plain dumb. It would solve nothing, if there were there only a few terrorists among the Muslims there, now all Muslims will protest against the government and more terrorists will appear, since you gave them the reason to do so. That would just cause more harm than it would solve!
Eh, I won't begrudge people their minor acts of solidarity. Everyone reacts to shit in their own way and I see no harm in what they're doing.
On the other hand, I can't stomach the people who make money exploiting these tragedies. Just wait a day or two, commemorative t-shirts, coffee mugs, key chains and other crap will be flooding the market. A lot of people profited off the Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan attacks, I can't see this one being any different.
Yeah, arrest innocent people is the right thing to do! Violate their rights of properties! Every muslim is guilty!
It's the better way to get every muslims to the ISIS's cause. Not to mention from a law's POV, a country acting like that would be punished by international community and european union.
France put the state of urgency (where law can be bent): it doesn't work better. Also France uses this for her interest, to keep ecologists militants away from the COP21 for example.
You want to arrest all the muslims? Special security services know them for the most part: but if they act, the terrorists who are still free and not known from them will hide even more, and it will be totally impossible to get them.
Acting like you want is simply not being a man, it's just being as sauvage as them, acting like these craven.
It always goes that way. Let's DISCUSS! and then do nothing...
Their docile reaction disgust me. They got punched in the face yet they draw flowers at the assilant feet instead of punching back.
The so called human rights prevent any real action from being taken. they are the shield that protect those that should be pusniehd.
Do I really have to spell it out? They should grab arms and take an action.
Look You and I will never agree. I can't even begin to understand your pacifistic ways, do you even know how to hate?
Are you aware that Belgium is considered European terrorist nest? Ok then as a Muslim what do you propose that should be done?
If you didn't notice we are at war. They don't hold back so we shouldn't either. So if you don't like my idea tell me what should be done?
No, it doesn't. The Islamic State consistently losing territory and sway is evidence of that not being the case. The massive amounts of airstrikes, training being given to militias to fight against ISIS, and support for groups fighting against ISIS is proof of this not being the case.
So, AGAIN, what would you have them doing in the picture? What action do you want them to be doing to mourn the dead that would tickle your fancy?
Pesky human rights interfering with what you want done. Maybe we should just do away with them, since they just seem to get in the way.
Yes, spell it out. I'm confused. Don't skip a single detail in this "raising arms" you want to see take place. Please and thank you.
No, we will not. Because I don't believe in removing peoples rights unless they have necessitated their removal (hence I support prison).
Do I hate? I used to. I used to hate a lot of things. Do you know what hate breeds? More hate, and more hate, and yet more hate. I'm not a pacifist. I could and would kill under the right circumstances, but not out of hate. In fact, I'm fairly sure I would only do it for the opposite.
No, I'm not. But still, that's not how you solve anything.
I think if the government really wanted to solve anything, they should go in two ways:
You see? The harm mostly comes from the outside not the inside.
I'm curious, what kind of regulations would you suggest?
"We"? Who are "we"?
War means an action between two identities. As far as I know, muslims aren't the Islamic State. The only war which exists is the one between countries and the islamic state.
France is bombing them since two years, give weapons to the ones fighting them.. And it's not the only one doing things against them; if you look at the coalition against the islamic state, there are 22 countries involved.
The only thing I don't understand is why they don't send ground troops. Maybe they fear to have the anger of the locals.. America's war for oil didn't help to give them trust.
Maybe the economy's crisis put a problem to use/hire soldiers too (it would be quite pitiful if it's for this motive though..)
What should be done? There's no true solution, otherwise it would have been already taken. So keep fighting until it ends, security services keep doing their jobs and one day it should be back to normal. But hitting civilians? Using your grief for what some fools did against them? It's the better way to give them free soldiers to their cause.
You mean by Russia, Assad and YPG? Since Westen coaliton doesn't do shit. They only recently started to bombard ISIS tankers because Russia started doing that...you want to know why the didn't? So the poor drivers won't be killed...
Cool down, I see you getting worked up. I already answered that, eye for an eye
The funny thing that we do away with them...you know how? Under the guise of war with terrorism. The invigilation of people's private date the slowly rising competence of secret service and police... Step by step, every time terrorist strike the state give itself little more power over us...
They should fight. Here I said that.
Too lenient.
Killing for love...you know how easily I could twist that to suit my needs? But I won't I repect that at least you would not lie down and be rolled over but there's a need for respone. Strong and terrifying one, because if we won't show them that it's better not to fuck with us they will continiue doing this forever and no amount of discussing, flower painting profile changing will do squad against them.
It's late and I'm off to sleep. Let's leave it at that.
that's valid but what about Imams who preach about it in Mosques?
See that's the problems europe is incapable of doing that thanks to the yeas of tolerance. Imagine if Macedonias started to shoot at the illegal migrants...
Not exactly for example the brain of paris attacks Abdelhamid Abaaoud was born in Belgium... Other terroris I can't recall his name was born in france...I wouldn't be suprised if those three were Europe born too...
You know, checking whether they come from more conservative countrys or not, whether their country is part of the ongoing war in Iraq and Sham and how suited they are and their ideology for life in Europe in general, and if they don't meet the requirements the government is ought to outright ban them from passing it's borders. It may be a lengthy and expensive process, but it's better than having to afford fixing up areas bombarded by terrorists and would save them a fortune later on.
I feel like I'm talking like Trump right now, but in a state like this? It's the only possible and least harmful solution they got right now.
I'm just going to close this thread for a little bit because with the Brussel attacks it's getting a little too heated, and so you all can cool your jets and looking at like 3 posts I think you all need that so we don't do anything we don't regret. It will be unlocked in a few days.
If you'd like to talk about this privately, that would be fine. But I don't wish do so publically, as I don't want this thread to be closed again, this time for good, due to anything we might say to each other.
I don't want anything we say to each other to effect others in a negative way.
What about this, if Islam isn't a violent religion?
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^that also I heard that some teacher in holland tweeted that muslims kids started clapping when they heard about the attack...he got a visit from police lecturing him about hate speech few hours later
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look at the signs on the shops, the guy who posted it mixed countries
Oh boy, Clord has it all figured out! It's all the book's fault everybody! And here I was thinking Islamic extremism is complex, multi-faceted social problem. How silly!! Call off the sociologists! Call off the counter-terror experts, and put that crazy pastor from Florida on the phone. It's time to burn some Qu'rans!
If there was no Islam, there would be no Extremist Islam.
I think it's worth noting that while Daesh the terrorist organization is flourishing, Daesh the fighting force is being soundly thrashed on pretty much every front.
A couple days ago they lost Palmyra to the Assad regime, which is a pretty serious blow. Hopefully, some of the cultural relics there are still intact..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra_offensive_(March_2016)
Do you think there's any hope for Western Europe at this point?
Well Belgian's far right people went to protest but were chased away by police...sadly I see only thee ways here.
1st option is rather idle wishing so it's between option 2&3 either way the west is screwed for me. I just hope Eastern Europe will manage to reform and re-arm itself in time to survie the oncoming storm. I guess you should wish us luck.
Thank you.
Sure
But the assertion that Qu'ran + nothing else = extremism is reductionist hoo-hah that does a pretty huge disservice to a complex set Of problems.
I refer to Euro-American or more precisely Christian civilization against muslim one. and in case you didn't get the memo we've been at war with muslims for over fourteen centruries. This time around instead of war they try to outbreed us.
For two reason, one like you said money, it cost a lot of cash to conduct war. Second reason is that their mulims would most likely riot if they sent army there.
There are solutions, goverments are just afraid to take them, and will wait until it's too late. Also tell me how many people killed in those terrist attacks were soliders? That's right. They don't hold their punches so we shouldn't too. There are no civilians in this war.
Because you think this war invented traitors? All those terrorists went in Syria, being trained and all the stuffs. They're losing territories right now.
"At war with muslims?" As far as I remember it only happened in dark ages. My ancestors were some minor nobles and I won't bear grudge with muslims of today because their ancestors might have been at war with mines, half a thousand of years ago.
So well.. Who cares now? My country was also an ally with the ottoman empire; muslims in colonies helped us in two world war for almost no cost for them. I'm pretty sure there were muslims in them.
You keep saying people have no guts to take the true solution..
Between the one who fight the real threat and stay true to their ideals and the one wanting to hide behind his walls and doing a witch hunt, there's no doubt about who the coward is.
And pray tell what the real threat is? Also what are those ideas you refer to? You seem to think that think that only valid ideas are yours and everything else is wrong. You can build a wall for example and stay true to your ideas as well.
ISIS state, if you didn't figure it out.
Those ideas are democracy, freedom, rights.. Those things you would like to remove to the muslims at the first opportunity. For those ideas I'm not aiming only you, but the one who go full extremists since the attacks.
Acting against these muslim citizens-which-are-not-citizens-but-people-to-fight is as ignorant as doing a witch hunt and is cowardly: it's not an idea, it's a fact.
ISIS? Real threat? please they are just a symptoms not the real threat. The real theat are the radical muslims living within Europe, most of the recent terrorist are Europe born and raised.
There are all beautiful and noble ideas but don't they sound hollow among piles of corpses? Be a realist people who don't respect those ideas should not be allowed to have them in first place.
Trust me it's not first opportunity, they've been working really hard for the way people treat them, nothing is without a reason.
Also a witch hunt you seem to dislike so much, so please tell me how else find and neutralise the terrorist threat within?