Are we getting to the point where it us unacceptable to have your own opinion?
It seems like whenever someone tries to speak up and share their own personal opinion, they get verbally attacked for it, or even sometimes physically, especially if their opinion does not jive with whatever the conventional wisdom happens to be at the time.
I'll just give you an example, so you feel that spanking a child as a form of discipline is acceptable. However if you dare to say something like that in this modern day and age, more than likely you're going to be looked at as a child abuser.
Or say perhaps you believe in capital punishment for the crimes of murder, and rate. Yet a lot of times if you dare to voice your opinion on such things, you are immediately demonized for it.
Or better yet, so you say you believe in God. And yet in the workplace the two biggest subjects that you cannot speak about our politics and religion. I know that one time, religion was not a controversial issue to bring up, but was rather one that was freely discussed in the workplace.
I personally have always felt that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether it's right or not. And I have always felt that whether or not you agree with someone's opinion, that you should at least respect it.
Unfortunately though we seem to have elements in society, and unfortunately they just seem to keep growing larger and larger by the day, where if you dare to voice your own opinion, particularly if your opinion is more of a traditional one, that you are immediately attacked for it.
And regarding these types of people, and I'm talking about people who attack others for having Traditional Values, they seem to be the types of people that seem to want to dictate to everyone what they should think, what they should say, and what they should do.
And the flaw with that idea is that you cannot legislate human behavior. You can't legislate things like love, peace, goodness, and etc. Those things all have to come from the heart.
And I just have to wonder, are we really getting to the point where it is basically socially unacceptable to have a traditional viewpoint on things?
I'm just simply asking a question, I'm not speaking from personal experience or anything like that. I'm just simply observing the social structure that we have now, and how it seems to be taking more and more of an extreme stance against traditional ideas, and Traditional Values.
Does it seem like people nowadays are becoming more and more narcissistic? Does it seem like people in general are becoming more more self-absorbed, and basically unwilling to listen to anything that challenges their own personal philosophy on life?
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What are these 'traditional values' you keep claiming to be persecuted for? That we should have the death penalty? Corporal punishment? Thinking homosexuality is immoral? I'm pretty sure that counts as telling people "what they should do," (not to mention legislating love in the last case) and your other examples are literally physical coersion, whether that is legimate or not can be discussed, but it isn't just a 'lifesyle choice.'
And you making a thread like this every other week and having people disagreeing with you is not the same as them being narcissistic and refusing to accept others opinions, it's your failure to substantiate yours without appealing to either religion, tradition, or simply coping out with 'I have a right to my opinion.'
As a very "non-traditional value holding" individual, I have no quarrel with others who hold "traditional ideals." I mean, I don't think those terms mean anything other than validation for people who have outdated viewpoints and are self-aware of how flawed it is in comparison to more socially limbered views, but I digress.
Try to understand that some people are uncomfortable with certain topics and you should respect that and not pry. It's not you, it's social cues that some people are taught not to cross out of respect for others' comfort as well as their own.
Spanking a child ISN'T an acceptable form of discipline, your child will resent you, do people imagine that their child will be thankful that they got spanked when they grow up? "Oh gee dad I sure love you for spanking my ass until I cried, it sure made me a better person, I'll do the same thing to my child!".
Politics and religion cause arguments. Arguments lower productivity in the workplace, there, you've got your answer.
What are these traditional values you keep babbling on about? You mean frowning upon homosexuality? Faith in god?
Every thread you make is dumber than the last one.
A friend of mine's Swedish who generally loves his country but had to move out cause of this specific issue. Apparently you cannot share ANY form of opinion without being blasted for it. It's gone so far that people can't discuss properly anymore.
I'm sure there are better ways to disagree with him than to make things personal. Don't you think that's a little over the top?
Hey bro remember we all humen and the humen have the bad times the good times and every one have his opinions so when you put your own opinion remember your opinion its gonna read by some one he can't agree with you and he maybe in a bad time maybe mad he put his all anger on you if you was in the same situation you might do the same and as you feel hurt when some one disrespect your opinion you have to know that he was hurt from your opinion so you have the choice to be like him so you hurt him and he hurt you and both of you go to endless fight or to be respectfull and more level head than him and leave at quite even when you are right its be a badass thing from you only you can feel it cuz not a lot of people do that around beat them self and thier feeling
Well true, the child would resent their parents. For a time. I certainly did. But now that I'm older I'm glad that my parents spanked me. It's called tough love. I'm glad that I was raised with common decency and taught not to be a petulant, spoiled, entitled cunt.
Yes, well those are traditional values, are they not?
I could say the same about the feedback he gets from the threads. You people just love to bash the poor guy.
I'm not claiming personal persecution.
When it comeseems to politics, I tend to keep my mouth shut.
No I have just simply been noticing when OTHERS speak up, and how THEY are attcked for doing so.
Kenny makes great discussions here. I don't always agree with his opinion but it gets people talking about a wide range of topics.
Some people seems to identify with their opinions, and therefore gets personally offended when someone disagrees. Also people mistaking their opinions for facts and facts for opinions. I don't know how this happened.
Thanks!
No worries mate, don't understand where these attacks are coming from.
People just like to feel oppressed. Considering the majority of people live in relative comfort (At least in countries where social and economic liberties are upheld) they have very little to complain about and so even trivial things such as a difference of opinion is mind boggling and unbelievably offensive to them.
I wouldn't go that far, but there is definitely some truth to that statement. It seems like every other person in this country is a "social justice warrior" these days.
I commiserate, but to a point. While it's true that people are allowed their opinion, just because it's an opinion does not make it unassailable. The phrase is not, "Everyone is entitled to their unchallenged opinions," yet many people like to behave as if that's what it means, i.e. that they get a free pass to spread bullcrap as long as they can claim it’s just an opinion.
Let's say I lived my whole life in a cave and have never seen the sky, and my opinion is that the sky is green-- not because I have any evidence, but just because I feel like it should be. My friends and colleagues, however, have been outside and all say that it's blue, and can show me photographic proof. While I am entitled to maintain my sky-is-green opinion for whatever reason, I can also be objectively wrong, regardless of how strong my feelings are. And so long as there is free and open discourse, my friends and colleagues are free to call me out on my misinformation just as I am free to express it. They should call me out on it, because I should also be willing to give honest thought to contradictory evidence demonstrating that the sky is blue. That last part tends to be where the wheels come off a healthy and respectful discussion, unfortunately. Also unfortunately, objectively wrong opinions can have real life consequences, which is also why passions can run very high.
So while people can have whatever opinions they like, that doesn’t mean they are all created equal. They can be irrational. Some are better informed and developed than others, and that quality is based on the source of evidence and reasoning behind them, and not just what ‘feels’ like fact. Poorly developed opinions - especially if they are aggressively touted as the opposite - tend to invite challenge. This is especially true with these Internet machines making information is so readily available. Context matters, too.
OK, done rambling, cuz this is all just like, my opinion man...
I guess it's because he posts threads about things that can spark arguments, which is by no means a bad thing if they are done right. It's like they're afraid of discussion on a damn forum. Kenny/Lee is a good guy and contributes a lot by posting good threads, it's unfortunate that people are so rude to him simply because they don't like the topics surrounding his threads. Keep doing what you're doing @Kenny/Lee
I like how you use this in a way that you're trying to mock him for thinking people would talk and think this way, when that is exactly what happens. . .
Though, yes, most studies suggest that physically harming a child is never more productive than a reward based system.
EDIT: Made the word "exactly" more zesty.
Posting this quite late and I apologize...
But its because the majority of people are just plain stubborn. They want friends that think just the same as them. Me myself,I'm an Atheist. But I don't try to revert people from religion...its all a matter of a persons personal path in life...you just need to try your hardest to ignore these type of people,because their stubbornness will always make them act if their opinion is the only one that matters.
I'm saying the truth, I don't see how calling his threads dumb is personal, I haven't driven to his house and spat in his face.
Thank you! It's nice to know somone on here is sticking up for me.
If you're being a little shit and out of line, yes, I think being 'spanked' is okay.
I did some stupid things as a kid, got hit for them, never did them again.
It's called discipline. I think I've turned out pretty good as an adult because of it, it enforces right and wrong.
I see so many parents babying their kids and they get away with everything, growing up to be spoilt brats. Not all, but many.
It doesn't have to be abusive, bruising or doing long term damage as so many make it out be be. Just enough so they know they've stuffed up.
Is that we we are calling child abuse these days
And physical abuse is the only way to teach these values is it? I dont see how being controlled with fear and physical violence by a bully would make you grow up to be a good person I believe it would have the opposite effect it teaches children that anger and violence is the way adults deal with their problems its a stupid way to get what you want, intelligent people use reason.
'member when homophobia and child abuse were social norms?
When I said common decency I was referring to the values I was brought up with, which naturally came with the discipline. Secondly, I wouldn't call discipline child abuse, since there's a purpose for it, ultimately good purpose.
Well it is one way, and it sure as hell works. Better than having "talks" or "time outs"
Well most of the adults that I know who the vast majority of were physically disciplined by their parents, seem to be respectable people. I remember being slapped by my parents when I persisted in acting out, it never had any long term effect on me. You seem to be highly overestimating physical discipline. Last time I checked a slap on the wrist has never given anybody PTSD, and anything more excessive than that is abuse, and that of course is wrong, especially when there's not a good enough reason or none at all for that matter. I'm not saying it's okay for parents to just go and beat their kids over every little thing, but if a child doesn't seem to get the message, well there's not much else you can really do when reason fails.
And well, I don't think I've ever been a bully, or a particularly violent person, and I know plenty of other people who were given the same discipline as a kid and they have never seemed to show signs of it.
The image of a adult towering over a child with the intent to cause physical pain and fear sickens me to my very core. A parents job is to guide a person till adulthood not to control, children look to their parents to learn how to be a normal human, I dont think ruling the weak with violence and fear is a good lesson to teach a future grown up.
You're allowed to have opinions as long as they're the "right" one
The idea of discipline is to teach your child he/she was wrong. They would resent you at first but when grown up they may look back and realise how wrong they were about whatever they were doing.
There's a big difference in spanking and actually beating someone up
It's just a smack...parents do rule a child as far as I'm concerned. All this 'guidance' shit from new age parenting never works. The kid then grows up thinking he has all the freedom in the world, once they hit the teenage years they have no manners, no discipline because their parents took it easy on them, babying them all through childhood.
You're talking about this like the parent is beating the child to a pulp lol. A smack doesn't mean your parents don't love you nor does it mean they don't want to guide you. Put simply, young kids are dumb, they are simple, giving a kid a smack will almost guarantee they will never do the wrong thing they did again.
Try talking a young child out of doing something wrong, near impossible, they simply aren't smart enough to understand.
I think the OP is right, to an extent. Personally I think there's hysteria on both sides of this. You've got the "FREE SPEECH IS DEAD!" crowd and then you've got these people:
This is why I don't put labels on myself like 'feminist' or 'MRA' or 'alt-right' (the latter of which I'm unfamiliar about). I think there is drummed up hysteria on both sides of the issue, which does nothing to solve the problem.
I do think, though, that people in general these days have a massive problem with listening to others (and I'll admit I've had this problem). Just a few weeks ago I was trying to explain to someone in my class why I wasn't a feminist. The student (who I usually get along with quite well) kept interrupting me with the dictionary definition of feminism. My entire point was that feminism wasn't an organization and that there was a lack of self-examination within the feminist movement. Maybe I am a bit biased on this issue, or did not explain my point correctly, but my friend's attitude made it clear to me that she saw me as ignorant or misinformed.
I think people in general (and I include myself in this) should take the time to listen to an opposing viewpoint even if it doesn't sound like it has merit. You can't just listen to one person's opinion and immediately dismiss it without giving it the benefit of the doubt.
And I'll also finish by saying that I do not agree with many of the opinions that Kenny/Lee has expressed on here, but I appreciate his willingness to speak up and say what he believes, even when some might dismiss his beliefs as intolerant.
I too have never called discipline child abuse. And discipline can come in many different forms.
My dad always taught me the idea behind a spanking was to make the child feel humiliation for when he did wrong.
And I believe that that is a good thing, because when you do something that is wrong, you should feel ashamed, whether you committed wrong unknowingly, or knowingly.
When it comes to the issue of spanking a child as a form of discipline, I am 100% behind it. And as long as it does not result in bruising, or blood being drawn, then it does not constitute abuse.
It is never unacceptable to have your own opinion, if someone tries to shove that down your throat it's because they disagree with opposing perspectives(granted there are some instances, though few, when it might be required). In the end, if you want people to accept your opinion, you'll have to accept theirs or disregard it if all they do is fight.
In terms of spanking your child - yes, of course people will look at you as a child abuser, physical abuse includes spanking because you're physically hurting them. Although I guess to some it may depend on the severity and frequency of it.
In terms of corporal punishment, having things like the death penalty could lead to someone innocent dying.
In terms of discussion in the workplace, well, unless you run the show you have to follow the rules someone has set, we all do this. If people don't want political or religious conversations at the workplace then that's that.
I agree, everyone has the right to have an opinion and everyone should, to an extent, respect that opinion unless in the cases of where an opinion directly targets and attacks an individual or multiple - I cannot respect or agree with someone who says "Homosexuals shouldn't be able to marry, only Heterosexuals" or "We shouldn't allow immigrants into our country, despite being immigrants ourselves" etc.
I do agree, attacking people for their comments can be a bit much but I can't help but feel that some people accuse those with opposing opinions of 'attacking' them.
To become a progressive species, sometimes traditional values and perspective need to be left behind. Equality and tradition aren't always the same things after all.
Yes. And it's unacceptable that it's at that point.
You think children understand reason?
Let's refrain from personal attacks and not be as hostile towards Kenny/Lee, even if you disagree with their opinions.
Yes.You are a little late on that tho.
We need to remember that people disagreeing with your opinion is completely fine, and they should be allowed to do so just as much as you should be allowed to express it.
If someone thinks your opinion is shit, they are perfectly free to tell you so, and to argue about your opinion with you. This is the entire basis of our society and relationships - conversations coming from different viewpoints working together to eventually form compromise.
Often these days it's becoming trendy to express your opinion, and when someone disagrees, to respond with 'SHUTT UP ITS MY OPINION OKAY LEAVE ME ALONE IT'S JUST MY OPINION' - no. Unless someone is actively trying to take away your right to express an opinion, that argument has very, very little basis. They use this argument to avoid actually engaging in debate.
People disagreeing with your opinions on this forum does not mean they think the right to have an opinion is unacceptable.
What's ironic is that many people use the argument of 'my right to express an opinion is being taken away' to try to get people to stop criticising their opinions, which is completely hypocritical as that is exactly what they are supposedly protesting about.
If you think the right to have an opinion is important (which it is), then the opinion of the person disagreeing with you is worth just as much as yours, and they shouldn't feel bad for disagreeing with you.
In fact I think the reason this is even perceived as an issue today is that today more than ever MORE opinions are being accepted. A hundred years ago people would be laughed at for suggesting that black people should have the vote. Nowadays there are much more varied opinions, and because of this people stress out that theirs isn't as popular as they'd like, and they decide to say that this is because of moustache-twirling communists trying to take away their freedom.
Their opinion might be that your opinion is crap. And that's perfectly valid, isn't it?
People are allowed to disagree with you, and to express that disagreement.
I don't understand this argument.
People have their own opinion that something is oppressive/offensive, and you're saying that opinion is invalid? Isn't that what this thread is speaking out against?
Can you explain why someone finding something upsetting, and being able to voice that, is inherently trying to limit the freedom of speech of others?
I think people just need to get a grip. Most of this 'issue' is people being annoyed that their viewpoint isn't the most popular one. I don't think they'd complain if they saw a feminist completely ignored and laughed at instead of listened to.
I don't understand this.
Just as he has a right to express his non-progressive viewpoint, don't they have the right to express theirs?
Are you saying SJWs should not express their opinions? Or that they should debate with you more? Because most SJWs I know are very willing to debate the situation. Rather, people who disagree prefer not to talk about it at all, which isn't really what we should want in our society, if exchange of opinions is viewed as important and integral.
Counter-argument: people have begun to hold their opinions so sacred that criticizing and poking holes them is considered personally offensive or "oppressive".
As someone who's political beliefs are far beyond the pale of acceptable discourse (not as much online), I get what you're saying. Still, I don't think it's a form of oppression or anything. Having your opinions ridiculed isn't fun, but it kinda comes with the territory.
As for discussing politics and stuff at work, this is where emotional intelligence must come into play. For instance, I am a Socialist edgelord. I can talk rather freely about my beliefs here because the worst that's going to happen is people won't give a shit, or I'll be insulted. No big deal. At the same time, if I was open about it at work, I could damage friendships or even lose my job, depending on the circumstances. And really, I don't blame people for reacting that way. Work is about doing your job and getting through the day as painlessly as possible, and a lot of people don't want to deal with the stress of debate when there's more important shit to do. (Exceptions exist of course)
I respect my co- workers and don't want them to feel uncomfortable around me. So that's why I'm careful about how and when I discuss political beliefs with them. Same applies for other aspects in life. The rule of "avoid politics and religion" isn't a sign of repression or persecution, it's a matter of tact and respect.