I posted it in the other thread, but I think it belongs here...
Okay so I spotted something in the S3 trailer that I haven't seen anyone … moreelse mention yet. It's not major to the plot but something.
So when Clementine is pointing her gun, you can see the sleeve of her beige shirt. Nothing wrong here.
But, a couple seconds after that when she bends her arm, it reveals what looks like to be an under shirt. (red/maroon)
I know it's nothing major but at this point, I am so desperate for news that spotting this made me excited.
I posted it in the other thread, but I think it belongs here...
Okay so I spotted something in the S3 trailer that I haven't seen anyone … moreelse mention yet. It's not major to the plot but something.
So when Clementine is pointing her gun, you can see the sleeve of her beige shirt. Nothing wrong here.
But, a couple seconds after that when she bends her arm, it reveals what looks like to be an under shirt. (red/maroon)
I know it's nothing major but at this point, I am so desperate for news that spotting this made me excited.
It's the little things like that that really show the wasted potential of the psychological horror aspect of that miniseries. I mean, come on! Jumpsacres! Boring!
In episode 2 of Michonne, during her hallucination where you're looking around the apartment, Michonne's arms and hands are shaking the enti… morere time.
It's hard to notice, but it's a nice little touch. Shows she isn't completely unfazed by everything going on.
What would have been a better way of handling the daughter hallucinations, especially in episode 3, would be to replace the jumpscares with more subtle appearances. Instead of a sudden loud noise and them running past when you leave a room, have them standing in a dark corner of a room, ever so slightly visible, vanishing when the player gets close or looks directly at them. Something you can either miss, or notice out of the corner of your eye and do a double take at. Something more subtle, where they're there, but it's not being made super obvious. Episode 3 did do something along these lines when you use the record player, though; it shows a shot of them standing behind an oblivious Michonne, and are no longer there when she turns around. No jumpscares or loud noises, they're just standing there, watching. That kind of subtle/subdued stuff is a lot more unsettling to me than a jumpscare is.
It's hit-or-miss with the daughter hallucinations, honestly. Some of them are handled well and come across somewhat unsettling (like the record player one), but others just feel annoying and/or unnecessary, especially most of the ones in episode 3.
It's the little things like that that really show the wasted potential of the psychological horror aspect of that miniseries. I mean, come on! Jumpsacres! Boring!
I posted it in the other thread, but I think it belongs here...
Okay so I spotted something in the S3 trailer that I haven't seen anyone … moreelse mention yet. It's not major to the plot but something.
So when Clementine is pointing her gun, you can see the sleeve of her beige shirt. Nothing wrong here.
But, a couple seconds after that when she bends her arm, it reveals what looks like to be an under shirt. (red/maroon)
I know it's nothing major but at this point, I am so desperate for news that spotting this made me excited.
Clem has a goldfish named Peanut because her mom dislikes dogs. If you stand next to Clementine and Katjaa talking together at Hershel's farm, she'll give this information to Katjaa when they're discussing pets.
God, after watching this video, it's made me just hate Kenny. I don't care if he was going through a rough time losing Sarita, that's not the only time he made me fearful of hurting Clementine. He's like an abusive parent, you love them and they care about you, but then bam! They lash out and blame you like everything is your fault.
And we were supposed to test our loyalty to Kenny when he acts like this to a little girl? Clementine didn't even do anything wrong. If anything he should've been blaming himself for not being there, but no, he blames the 11 year old.
See, everything you said was true. It's a double standard, really. Especially when she chooses to cut Sarita's arm off.
When Sarita dies, it's all clementines fault. He needs to be forgiven because he just lost someone who was close to him. Everything he does out of line is fine because he's dealing with emotions. Everyone forgive Kenny!
But, Kenny kills Larry in the meat locker. Lilly get's mad, lashes out at kenny for killing her father. She steals the RV and kills Carley/Doug. What do people do? They get mad at Lilly. Kenny was in the right, apparently. Lilly stepped out of line! She shouldn't have done that, loosing her father wasn't a good enough excuse!
Moral of the story: Kenny kills Larry and people forgive him easily. Lilly lashes out, since shes dealing with loss, but they hate Lilly cause of what she did.
Clementine Kills (And sometimes DOES NOT EVEN KILL Sarita) and Kenny lashes out at clementine. But, that's fine, cause it's Kenny.
These are not my thoughts, but the thoughts that other people have.
God, after watching this video, it's made me just hate Kenny. I don't care if he was going through a rough time losing Sarita, that's not t… morehe only time he made me fearful of hurting Clementine. He's like an abusive parent, you love them and they care about you, but then bam! They lash out and blame you like everything is your fault.
And we were supposed to test our loyalty to Kenny when he acts like this to a little girl? Clementine didn't even do anything wrong. If anything he should've been blaming himself for not being there, but no, he blames the 11 year old.
Dammit, now I'm depressed. I need some candy.
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shouldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it. Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
See, everything you said was true. It's a double standard, really. Especially when she chooses to cut Sarita's arm off.
When Sarita die… mores, it's all clementines fault. He needs to be forgiven because he just lost someone who was close to him. Everything he does out of line is fine because he's dealing with emotions. Everyone forgive Kenny!
But, Kenny kills Larry in the meat locker. Lilly get's mad, lashes out at kenny for killing her father. She steals the RV and kills Carley/Doug. What do people do? They get mad at Lilly. Kenny was in the right, apparently. Lilly stepped out of line! She shouldn't have done that, loosing her father wasn't a good enough excuse!
Moral of the story: Kenny kills Larry and people forgive him easily. Lilly lashes out, since shes dealing with loss, but they hate Lilly cause of what she did.
Clementine Kills (And sometimes DOES NOT EVEN KILL Sarita) and Kenny lashes out at clementine. But, t… [view original content]
The two situations arent exactly alike. Nevertheless, both characters were doing what they though was best for the group. My point is: Sarita's death was in no way Clementine's fault, and Kenny was a hypocrite for blaming her for it. He was getting a taste of his own medicine (medicine being that he was in Lilly's shoes.)
The walker bites her no matter what. After that, Clem's choices are down to almost nothing. Either kill the walker biting her, or cut off Sarita's arm to possibly save her (even if it didn't work out that way.) It was a shitty situation that nobody caused and nobody could have seen coming. No one is to blame but... Kenny is Kenny.
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shou… moreldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it. Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
Like my other comment said: Clementine pretty much had no choice. Either way, Sarita would have died, there is no avoiding that. And because of this reason, Clementine isn't to blame for either one of Sarita's death. She did was she could.
She cut her hand, causing her to scream and get jumped by walkers. Then Clem can also finish her off with her axe.
Unless you killed the walker. Then there's pretty much no blame to put on Clem.
I think its more that Lilly actually kills carley and intends to do it. I didnt really see anyone mad at lilly for screaming at Kenny and Lee after it happened or much else. Kenny doesnt kill anyone in his rage, not anyone likeable anyway. Many people end up shooting him to save Jane so take that for what you want
See, everything you said was true. It's a double standard, really. Especially when she chooses to cut Sarita's arm off.
When Sarita die… mores, it's all clementines fault. He needs to be forgiven because he just lost someone who was close to him. Everything he does out of line is fine because he's dealing with emotions. Everyone forgive Kenny!
But, Kenny kills Larry in the meat locker. Lilly get's mad, lashes out at kenny for killing her father. She steals the RV and kills Carley/Doug. What do people do? They get mad at Lilly. Kenny was in the right, apparently. Lilly stepped out of line! She shouldn't have done that, loosing her father wasn't a good enough excuse!
Moral of the story: Kenny kills Larry and people forgive him easily. Lilly lashes out, since shes dealing with loss, but they hate Lilly cause of what she did.
Clementine Kills (And sometimes DOES NOT EVEN KILL Sarita) and Kenny lashes out at clementine. But, t… [view original content]
The actions of their anger arent exactly the same, sure, but they both clearly stepped way over the line and so many people are so quick to defend Kenny unlike Lilly. Even if he did kill someone like Lilly did, people would still defend him.
I think its more that Lilly actually kills carley and intends to do it. I didnt really see anyone mad at lilly for screaming at Kenny and Le… moree after it happened or much else. Kenny doesnt kill anyone in his rage, not anyone likeable anyway. Many people end up shooting him to save Jane so take that for what you want
Like my other comment said: Clementine pretty much had no choice. Either way, Sarita would have died, there is no avoiding that. And because of this reason, Clementine isn't to blame for either one of Sarita's death. She did was she could.
Kenny's words to Clementine there were pretty disgusting and hurtful, especially considering her guilty conscience resulting from different experiences. I didn't find the action forgiveable, but because of circumstance, found Kenny as a whole forgiveable. I am in no way, shape, or form insinuating that his words were okay. Even if Clementine were in some way responsible for her death, he went more than a little too far. There was no way of getting Sarita out of that situation alive, and I at least appreciate him later on acknowledging this and realizing, "hey, that was kind of the shittiest thing I could possibly say to this girl." You could throw a Kenny quote here in response to his apology ("That because you're sorry everything will just magically go away!") I can see his apology as easily and validly being interpreted as too little too late, so that's an option too.
Oh, I love Lily so much. She was just a really, really, really great character, in my opinion. Just as with Kenny's words, her actions were pretty messed up. But as with Kenny, because of circumstance, I was able to forgive her. I suppose why more people hold Lily's action against her instead of doing the same for Kenny was because Kenny never really intended on killing anybody at that point. (Oh boy, that changed later on)
Sorry in advance for spewing incorrect information or just plain out sounding slow.
Edit: Oops! Someone already said all of this. It took a few minutes to type this up.
See, everything you said was true. It's a double standard, really. Especially when she chooses to cut Sarita's arm off.
When Sarita die… mores, it's all clementines fault. He needs to be forgiven because he just lost someone who was close to him. Everything he does out of line is fine because he's dealing with emotions. Everyone forgive Kenny!
But, Kenny kills Larry in the meat locker. Lilly get's mad, lashes out at kenny for killing her father. She steals the RV and kills Carley/Doug. What do people do? They get mad at Lilly. Kenny was in the right, apparently. Lilly stepped out of line! She shouldn't have done that, loosing her father wasn't a good enough excuse!
Moral of the story: Kenny kills Larry and people forgive him easily. Lilly lashes out, since shes dealing with loss, but they hate Lilly cause of what she did.
Clementine Kills (And sometimes DOES NOT EVEN KILL Sarita) and Kenny lashes out at clementine. But, t… [view original content]
Since Bonnie reacts exactly the same way after Luke's dies which is her fault, I guess it's a normal reaction. I get what you are saying though. There really wasn't anything Clementine could do. I think cutting off Sarita's arm in the middle of a herd was the worse of the two options though.
The two situations arent exactly alike. Nevertheless, both characters were doing what they though was best for the group. My point is: Sa… morerita's death was in no way Clementine's fault, and Kenny was a hypocrite for blaming her for it. He was getting a taste of his own medicine (medicine being that he was in Lilly's shoes.)
The walker bites her no matter what. After that, Clem's choices are down to almost nothing. Either kill the walker biting her, or cut off Sarita's arm to possibly save her (even if it didn't work out that way.) It was a shitty situation that nobody caused and nobody could have seen coming. No one is to blame but... Kenny is Kenny.
Since Bonnie reacts exactly the same way after Luke's dies which is her fault, I guess it's a normal reaction.
Exactly.
Doesn't make the person reacting right or wrong because its human nature to feel bad and potentially lash out when something you care about is taken away and you have a hard time recovering: Lee, Clementine, Hershel, Jolene, Lilly, Kenny, Vernon, The Stranger, Leland, Nate, Christa, Nick, Walter, Rebecca, Sarah, Bonnie, and Arvo all fit this category regardless of morality, alignment, or circumstance. What is wrong is when you continue to weaponize that grief and blame others in the instances where the incident only concerned a specific perpetrator or wasn't even anyone's fault: Hershel, Jolene(arguably), Lilly, Vernon(debatable), The Stranger, Nate, Leland(arguably), Walter(determinate/debatable), Kenny, and (to a point) Bonnie failed to avoid this pitfall.
Since Bonnie reacts exactly the same way after Luke's dies which is her fault, I guess it's a normal reaction. I get what you are saying tho… moreugh. There really wasn't anything Clementine could do. I think cutting off Sarita's arm in the middle of a herd was the worse of the two options though.
I think its more that Lilly actually kills carley and intends to do it. I didnt really see anyone mad at lilly for screaming at Kenny and Le… moree after it happened or much else. Kenny doesnt kill anyone in his rage, not anyone likeable anyway. Many people end up shooting him to save Jane so take that for what you want
I suppose why more people hold Lily's action against her instead of doing the same for Kenny was because Kenny never really intended on killing anybody at that point. (Oh boy, that changed later on)
Are you talking about her her yelling or shoot Carley/Doug? And are you telling about Kenny yelling or determinately stabbing Jane?
Kenny's words to Clementine there were pretty disgusting and hurtful, especially considering her guilty conscience resulting from different … moreexperiences. I didn't find the action forgiveable, but because of circumstance, found Kenny as a whole forgiveable. I am in no way, shape, or form insinuating that his words were okay. Even if Clementine were in some way responsible for her death, he went more than a little too far. There was no way of getting Sarita out of that situation alive, and I at least appreciate him later on acknowledging this and realizing, "hey, that was kind of the shittiest thing I could possibly say to this girl." You could throw a Kenny quote here in response to his apology ("That because you're sorry everything will just magically go away!") I can see his apology as easily and validly being interpreted as too little too late, so that's an option too.
Oh, I love Lily so much. She was just a really, really, really great c… [view original content]
Kenny's words to Clementine there were pretty disgusting and hurtful, especially considering her guilty conscience resulting from different … moreexperiences. I didn't find the action forgiveable, but because of circumstance, found Kenny as a whole forgiveable. I am in no way, shape, or form insinuating that his words were okay. Even if Clementine were in some way responsible for her death, he went more than a little too far. There was no way of getting Sarita out of that situation alive, and I at least appreciate him later on acknowledging this and realizing, "hey, that was kind of the shittiest thing I could possibly say to this girl." You could throw a Kenny quote here in response to his apology ("That because you're sorry everything will just magically go away!") I can see his apology as easily and validly being interpreted as too little too late, so that's an option too.
Oh, I love Lily so much. She was just a really, really, really great c… [view original content]
Man, I feel so sorry for poor Sarita there. She's clearly trying to defend Clementine but is too sick to get the words out.
With that said, I actually really like scenes like this, the heart to heart with Nick/Pete in the shed/van, and Bonnie's determinate dress down from a writing standpoint. There really should have been more of them, especially where characters like Omid, Walter, Nick, Mike, Reggie, Troy, Sarah, Natasha, and Arvo are concerned.
I was comparing Lily's shooting Doug/Carley to Kenny yelling at Clementine, I think. I was kind of talking about how both characters crossed a line in said situations, but because of the different results from Lily and Kenny's line-crossing in those specific examples, it would make sense for some players to forgive Kenny and not Lily, despite me personally choosing to forgive both.
The last comment just quickly mentioned how Kenny had, like Lily, an emotional outburst that ended with someone (determinantly) being murdered. I was trying to link the point that while Lily acted more severely than Kenny in the stated scenerios, Kenny ended up carrying out a deed that matched in barbarity (At the least. Differing views are to be expected on the scale of how messed up something is.) to Lily's shooting scene. And you know, Kenny seemed to cause issues more frequently, which could validly cause some to already condemn him as unforgivable. It's really hard to chalk up the forgiveablitity scales of two characters using only two scenes as examples.
Looking back now, my eyes somehow must have skimmed over the mention of the Larry situation, which would just cause me to have to edit my thoughts entirely, so I'll just leave things as is, for now.
I suppose why more people hold Lily's action against her instead of doing the same for Kenny was because Kenny never really intended on kill… moreing anybody at that point. (Oh boy, that changed later on)
Are you talking about her her yelling or shoot Carley/Doug? And are you telling about Kenny yelling or determinately stabbing Jane?
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shouldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it.
Actually, Larry was supposed to have survived that heart attack at one point.
Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
You know what's odd about that is that I have the opposite view of that duo.
Lilly shooting Carley was forgivable from an emotional standpoint in that Lilly was clearly starting to fall apart earlier that day and realizing that the bandits attacking over a traitor's deal with them just brought that out. Carley was trying to defend Ben because he obviously couldn't do much himself with Lilly causing him to freak out and unfortunately, she got a little to bold for her own good and caused Lilly to just snap and suddenly shoot her in the face.
Lilly shooting Doug was reprehensible from a logical standpoint in that Lilly was intentionally out for blood against her own group members. Unlike with Carley, Doug didn't even have the burden of not getting along with Lilly to make her killing him even a little understandable. Doug was just trying to help keep the peace when she tried to take the life of her own group member into her own hands and when he noticed her taking advantage of Kenny joining in on the debate to execute Ben on the spot, he quickly got Ben out of the line of fire and was shot in the head for his trouble.
Either way, what Lilly did was wrong and she needed to be neutralized for the moment to ensure the safety of the group. We don't hurt our own group members; that makes us no better than the bandits who caused this situation.
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shou… moreldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it. Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
Where did you see that Larry was supposed to survive the heart attack? Well, Lilly fully intends to murder Carley in one version and Ben in the other. Doug was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel a bit more sympathetic toward her trying to shoot Ben, since it came out later he was dealing with the bandits. Carley had been with them since the drugstore and had proved she could be trusted so I probably would have left Lilly in that situation. I kept Doug though. It's all about perception I guess and in hindsight, exiling Lilly was really the best option.
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shou… moreldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it.
Actually, Larry was supposed to have survived that heart attack at one point.
Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
You know what's odd about that is that I have the opposite view of that duo.
Lilly shooting Carley was forgivable from an emotional standpoint in that Lilly was clearly starting to fall apart earlier that day and realizing that the bandits attacking over a traitor's deal with them just brought that out. Carley was trying to defend Ben because he obviously couldn't do much himself with Lilly causing him to freak out and unfortunately, she got a little to bold for her own … [view original content]
Comments
Huh. That's odd. Come to think of it, I did listen to the credits recently and I don't remember seeing Lee's name in the voice section.
I posted it in the other thread, but I think it belongs here...
Okay so I spotted something in the S3 trailer that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet. It's not major to the plot but something.
So when Clementine is pointing her gun, you can see the sleeve of her beige shirt. Nothing wrong here.
But, a couple seconds after that when she bends her arm, it reveals what looks like to be an under shirt. (red/maroon)
I know it's nothing major but at this point, I am so desperate for news that spotting this made me excited.
It's probably the sleeve of the same shirt you can see the straps of ... like this:
or it could be some type of temporary bandage.
Hey, it's better than nothing.
In episode 2 of Michonne, during her hallucination where you're looking around the apartment, Michonne's arms and hands are shaking the entire time.
It's hard to notice, but it's a nice little touch. Shows she isn't completely unfazed by everything going on.
It's the little things like that that really show the wasted potential of the psychological horror aspect of that miniseries. I mean, come on! Jumpsacres! Boring!
What would have been a better way of handling the daughter hallucinations, especially in episode 3, would be to replace the jumpscares with more subtle appearances. Instead of a sudden loud noise and them running past when you leave a room, have them standing in a dark corner of a room, ever so slightly visible, vanishing when the player gets close or looks directly at them. Something you can either miss, or notice out of the corner of your eye and do a double take at. Something more subtle, where they're there, but it's not being made super obvious. Episode 3 did do something along these lines when you use the record player, though; it shows a shot of them standing behind an oblivious Michonne, and are no longer there when she turns around. No jumpscares or loud noises, they're just standing there, watching. That kind of subtle/subdued stuff is a lot more unsettling to me than a jumpscare is.
It's hit-or-miss with the daughter hallucinations, honestly. Some of them are handled well and come across somewhat unsettling (like the record player one), but others just feel annoying and/or unnecessary, especially most of the ones in episode 3.
Could be just a bandage.
(God, I can't stand the sight of that missing finger for some reason...)
If you don't break the ice Bonnie dies.
A dark era unravels itself for a second time.
If you don't break the ice the dark era will die.
Then I want my nice and chilly layer of ice in one piece.
If you don't break the ice, Bonnie dies.
Clem has a goldfish named Peanut because her mom dislikes dogs. If you stand next to Clementine and Katjaa talking together at Hershel's farm, she'll give this information to Katjaa when they're discussing pets.
If you ice the break, Bonnie dies.
And then when you drown in the freezing water, you get taken to the Phantom Zone.
Clementine clutches her right arm when she is nervous or sad.
This is true. Funny, cause she does this when talking to Kenny. She's clearly scared of him. 0:14 seconds.
Well I mean to be fair Clem had basically killed his partner, she should feel nervous and guilty when talking to him after that.
Clementine had nothing to do with Sarita's death.
God, after watching this video, it's made me just hate Kenny. I don't care if he was going through a rough time losing Sarita, that's not the only time he made me fearful of hurting Clementine. He's like an abusive parent, you love them and they care about you, but then bam! They lash out and blame you like everything is your fault.
And we were supposed to test our loyalty to Kenny when he acts like this to a little girl? Clementine didn't even do anything wrong. If anything he should've been blaming himself for not being there, but no, he blames the 11 year old.
Dammit, now I'm depressed. I need some candy.
See, everything you said was true. It's a double standard, really. Especially when she chooses to cut Sarita's arm off.
When Sarita dies, it's all clementines fault. He needs to be forgiven because he just lost someone who was close to him. Everything he does out of line is fine because he's dealing with emotions. Everyone forgive Kenny!
But, Kenny kills Larry in the meat locker. Lilly get's mad, lashes out at kenny for killing her father. She steals the RV and kills Carley/Doug. What do people do? They get mad at Lilly. Kenny was in the right, apparently. Lilly stepped out of line! She shouldn't have done that, loosing her father wasn't a good enough excuse!
Moral of the story: Kenny kills Larry and people forgive him easily. Lilly lashes out, since shes dealing with loss, but they hate Lilly cause of what she did.
Clementine Kills (And sometimes DOES NOT EVEN KILL Sarita) and Kenny lashes out at clementine. But, that's fine, cause it's Kenny.
These are not my thoughts, but the thoughts that other people have.
Kenny was trying to eliminate an immediate threat. Many people turn into walkers within a few minutes of dying. CPR was ineffective. He shouldn't have done what he did in front of anyone, but I can understand why he did it. Lilly shooting Doug was an accident so that can be forgivable but she shoots Carley for no reason other than defending Ben and calling her a little girl.
She cut her hand, causing her to scream and get jumped by walkers. Then Clem can also finish her off with her axe.
Unless you killed the walker. Then there's pretty much no blame to put on Clem.
The two situations arent exactly alike. Nevertheless, both characters were doing what they though was best for the group. My point is: Sarita's death was in no way Clementine's fault, and Kenny was a hypocrite for blaming her for it. He was getting a taste of his own medicine (medicine being that he was in Lilly's shoes.)
The walker bites her no matter what. After that, Clem's choices are down to almost nothing. Either kill the walker biting her, or cut off Sarita's arm to possibly save her (even if it didn't work out that way.) It was a shitty situation that nobody caused and nobody could have seen coming. No one is to blame but... Kenny is Kenny.
Like my other comment said: Clementine pretty much had no choice. Either way, Sarita would have died, there is no avoiding that. And because of this reason, Clementine isn't to blame for either one of Sarita's death. She did was she could.
I think its more that Lilly actually kills carley and intends to do it. I didnt really see anyone mad at lilly for screaming at Kenny and Lee after it happened or much else. Kenny doesnt kill anyone in his rage, not anyone likeable anyway. Many people end up shooting him to save Jane so take that for what you want
The actions of their anger arent exactly the same, sure, but they both clearly stepped way over the line and so many people are so quick to defend Kenny unlike Lilly. Even if he did kill someone like Lilly did, people would still defend him.
All that I am saying is that, contrary to what you said, Clem is partly responsible for Sarita's death if you cut the hand.
I understand she was screwed either way, but if you cut the hand it causes her to not even make it out of the herd and it's seen as a "bad" decision.
Kenny's words to Clementine there were pretty disgusting and hurtful, especially considering her guilty conscience resulting from different experiences. I didn't find the action forgiveable, but because of circumstance, found Kenny as a whole forgiveable. I am in no way, shape, or form insinuating that his words were okay. Even if Clementine were in some way responsible for her death, he went more than a little too far. There was no way of getting Sarita out of that situation alive, and I at least appreciate him later on acknowledging this and realizing, "hey, that was kind of the shittiest thing I could possibly say to this girl." You could throw a Kenny quote here in response to his apology ("That because you're sorry everything will just magically go away!") I can see his apology as easily and validly being interpreted as too little too late, so that's an option too.
Oh, I love Lily so much. She was just a really, really, really great character, in my opinion. Just as with Kenny's words, her actions were pretty messed up. But as with Kenny, because of circumstance, I was able to forgive her. I suppose why more people hold Lily's action against her instead of doing the same for Kenny was because Kenny never really intended on killing anybody at that point. (Oh boy, that changed later on)
Sorry in advance for spewing incorrect information or just plain out sounding slow.
Edit: Oops! Someone already said all of this. It took a few minutes to type this up.
Since Bonnie reacts exactly the same way after Luke's dies which is her fault, I guess it's a normal reaction. I get what you are saying though. There really wasn't anything Clementine could do. I think cutting off Sarita's arm in the middle of a herd was the worse of the two options though.
Exactly.
Doesn't make the person reacting right or wrong because its human nature to feel bad and potentially lash out when something you care about is taken away and you have a hard time recovering: Lee, Clementine, Hershel, Jolene, Lilly, Kenny, Vernon, The Stranger, Leland, Nate, Christa, Nick, Walter, Rebecca, Sarah, Bonnie, and Arvo all fit this category regardless of morality, alignment, or circumstance. What is wrong is when you continue to weaponize that grief and blame others in the instances where the incident only concerned a specific perpetrator or wasn't even anyone's fault: Hershel, Jolene(arguably), Lilly, Vernon(debatable), The Stranger, Nate, Leland(arguably), Walter(determinate/debatable), Kenny, and (to a point) Bonnie failed to avoid this pitfall.
Technically, he determinately can with Jane. Shooting him can also be interpreted as saving him from crossing that line.
Are you talking about her her yelling or shoot Carley/Doug? And are you telling about Kenny yelling or determinately stabbing Jane?
[removed]
Man, I feel so sorry for poor Sarita there.
She's clearly trying to defend Clementine but is too sick to get the words out.
With that said, I actually really like scenes like this, the heart to heart with Nick/Pete in the shed/van, and Bonnie's determinate dress down from a writing standpoint. There really should have been more of them, especially where characters like Omid, Walter, Nick, Mike, Reggie, Troy, Sarah, Natasha, and Arvo are concerned.
That entire comment sounded better in my head.
I was comparing Lily's shooting Doug/Carley to Kenny yelling at Clementine, I think. I was kind of talking about how both characters crossed a line in said situations, but because of the different results from Lily and Kenny's line-crossing in those specific examples, it would make sense for some players to forgive Kenny and not Lily, despite me personally choosing to forgive both.
The last comment just quickly mentioned how Kenny had, like Lily, an emotional outburst that ended with someone (determinantly) being murdered. I was trying to link the point that while Lily acted more severely than Kenny in the stated scenerios, Kenny ended up carrying out a deed that matched in barbarity (At the least. Differing views are to be expected on the scale of how messed up something is.) to Lily's shooting scene. And you know, Kenny seemed to cause issues more frequently, which could validly cause some to already condemn him as unforgivable. It's really hard to chalk up the forgiveablitity scales of two characters using only two scenes as examples.
Looking back now, my eyes somehow must have skimmed over the mention of the Larry situation, which would just cause me to have to edit my thoughts entirely, so I'll just leave things as is, for now.
Actually, Larry was supposed to have survived that heart attack at one point.
You know what's odd about that is that I have the opposite view of that duo.
Lilly shooting Carley was forgivable from an emotional standpoint in that Lilly was clearly starting to fall apart earlier that day and realizing that the bandits attacking over a traitor's deal with them just brought that out. Carley was trying to defend Ben because he obviously couldn't do much himself with Lilly causing him to freak out and unfortunately, she got a little to bold for her own good and caused Lilly to just snap and suddenly shoot her in the face.
Lilly shooting Doug was reprehensible from a logical standpoint in that Lilly was intentionally out for blood against her own group members. Unlike with Carley, Doug didn't even have the burden of not getting along with Lilly to make her killing him even a little understandable. Doug was just trying to help keep the peace when she tried to take the life of her own group member into her own hands and when he noticed her taking advantage of Kenny joining in on the debate to execute Ben on the spot, he quickly got Ben out of the line of fire and was shot in the head for his trouble.
Either way, what Lilly did was wrong and she needed to be neutralized for the moment to ensure the safety of the group. We don't hurt our own group members; that makes us no better than the bandits who caused this situation.
Where did you see that Larry was supposed to survive the heart attack? Well, Lilly fully intends to murder Carley in one version and Ben in the other. Doug was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel a bit more sympathetic toward her trying to shoot Ben, since it came out later he was dealing with the bandits. Carley had been with them since the drugstore and had proved she could be trusted so I probably would have left Lilly in that situation. I kept Doug though. It's all about perception I guess and in hindsight, exiling Lilly was really the best option.