I cannot provide an online source. I have eye witness reports from 15 people and historical books that show the Castros and their power. Their executions of Black and White Cubans at The Wall. If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
I see. Still, provide a source of credible information for this persecution. I cannot believe you purely on your word alone, and I cannot fi… morend any credible sources (or any source) that proves it right. In fact I have found a few credible sources that say the contrary.
He was pure evil that did more harm than good. It's not being ignorant at all
"Do not get me wrong. I am NOT a fan of Castro. The man was a tyrant and ran detrimental policies. But to simply ignore what he did do right, and to de-humanise him as only being evil (or anyone else for that matter) is a rather narrow way to look at things."
Provide me with a logical argument that proves that wrong, because paraphrasing your previous point does nothing.
could you—and others who would like to, too—explain how he was racist
As I recall, he was a total racist in his youth (his writings … moreestablished this) and this was worsened by his failed revolutionary attempts in Africa, namely the Congo. However these stances softened with age - probably because it became politically expedient, or perhaps not.
He did convert to Marxism and wound up anti-imperialist. His U.N speech in the 60's was actually pretty anti-racist, too, and his policies in Cuba granted full rights to Afro-Cubans, I'm pretty sure.
So yes, he was a racist. Whether he truly had a change of heart, however, there is evidence to that effect; but whether you truly buy it or not is slightly interpretative.
and oppressed women?
At the very least he was a total traditionalist (not rare for the era) - largely believing it was a woman's duty to cook, and clean, etc, and so forth, beyond that I'm not aware of any true… [view original content]
He was willing to destroy the world; Castro would have nuked America if not for JFK, ultimately ending the world. Yes, he is some monster ok with destroying the universe (and executing millions and sending gay people to "re-education" school). Did I mention he hated gay people so much he murdered them in cold blood?
Couldn't agree with you more. I hate it when people make someone look either completely good or extremely bad. He's no saint indeed, but he'… mores not a damn monster who was willing to destroy the universe. He's dead anyway so what's the point in arguing? I just respect him as a person who did a big influence on history. He did some bad stuff, yes, but mocking his death is no better.
Btw, I forgot to mention how cool is the fact that people tried to kill Castro 600~ times but he died of old age. That's like a massive middle finger into their faces, lol.
Sorry, but you're just wrong about this one. Castro was a terrible, terrible human being, and he honestly deserves a fate far worse than death. It's just like when people gathered in D.C. and Times Square to celebrate Bin Laden's death. Both deserve death and people to cheer their deaths.
For fucks sake, how in the hell can you praise a mass murdering, commie psychopath? He was ready to actually end the fucking world. I can go on and on about how truly evil, rotten, and vile this piece of human filth and garbage is. Rest in Hell, Fidel Castro. Rest in Hell.
I can't believe he's dead... FUCKING shit! Another socialist revolutionarian dead! I came to this thread looking for support, and I found Y… moreankees. He fought with the Che, goddamit, for the independience of Cuba from USA. He was a socialist, not a fake socialist like Stanlin, but a good one! All this Yankee shit is making me sick, using this fucking lenguage to express my opinions make me sick. THIS FUCKING WORLD IS MAKING ME SICK! it's like Latin America is falling appart. I'm truly scared.
The United States government has been trying the kill Castro for 57 years, Trump gets elected and 3 weeks later, Castro is dead. The mere thought of Trump gets dictators and commies killed! He's already Making America Great Again!
The United States government has been trying the kill Castro for 57 years, Trump gets elected and 3 weeks later, Castro is dead. The mere thought of Trump gets dictators and commies killed! He's already Making America Great Again!
For fuck sake, I thought about giving you a good answer, but then I read your comment a couple more times and I realised there is no point in trying to change the views of people that refuse to see beyond one explanation. I saw many opinions of comunism, and I found out that Marx's socialism consists in everyone being equal. What do other people around the globe think about Castro? What did Castro truly did? I found some people that say that he fought for the revolution of Cuba, and other people, like you, that believe he was Hitler. What is the reason behind this difference?
What is your argument to fundament your opinion? Who told you he was like that?
For fucks sake, how in the hell can you praise a mass murdering, commie psychopath? He was ready to actually end the fucking world. I can go… more on and on about how truly evil, rotten, and vile this piece of human filth and garbage is. Rest in Hell, Fidel Castro. Rest in Hell.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Che+guevara+racist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=6Uc6WKq7A4fX8gfLkbCQB… morew
https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&client=firefox-b&q=Che+guevara+sexist&oq=Che+guevara+sexist&gs_l=serp.3...7728.8711.0.8775.6.6.0.0.0.0.220.666.1j3j1.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.2.240...0j0i131k1.JBzEF_y1mRE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.139782543,d.Y2I&biw=1920&bih=945&ech=1&psi=6Uc6WIngJ4aWwgSoip-4Cw.1480214490631.3&ei=6Uc6WIngJ4aWwgSoip-4Cw&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&gfe_rd=cr
https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&client=firefox-b&biw=1920&bih=945&noj=1&q=Che+guevara+homophobic&oq=Che+guevara+homophobic&gs_l=serp.3...10269.11327.1.11373.10.8.0.0.0.0.250.563.1j2j1.4.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..6.2.240...0j0i131k1.Qmn_4acMAj8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=AEg6WJ6FBofX8gfLkbCQBw
There you have, I guess 10.000 results are better than one simple page, as if it was too hard for you to look on your own.
The United States government has been trying the kill Castro for 57 years, Trump gets elected and 3 weeks later, Castro is dead. The mere thought of Trump gets dictators and commies killed! He's already Making America Great Again!
I saw many opinions of comunism, and I found out that Marx's socialism consists in everyone being equal.
You need more anarchism in your life, my friend. I like Marx as much as the next guy, but state socialism will never bring about a free and equal society.
For fuck sake, I thought about giving you a good answer, but then I read your comment a couple more times and I realised there is no point i… moren trying to change the views of people that refuse to see beyond one explanation. I saw many opinions of comunism, and I found out that Marx's socialism consists in everyone being equal. What do other people around the globe think about Castro? What did Castro truly did? I found some people that say that he fought for the revolution of Cuba, and other people, like you, that believe he was Hitler. What is the reason behind this difference?
What is your argument to fundament your opinion? Who told you he was like that?
I like Marx as much as the next guy, but state socialism will never bring about a free and equal society
It's something I've been thinking about for a long time. You can do whatever you want and hurt everyone, or you can make sure most people is ok, but have limited freedom. Capitalism is "Freedom", but I think we are all slaves of the system, we feed the rich and starve ourselves. Communism is Justice, we are still slaves of the system, but we feed ourselves, we feed each other, no one starves (in theory). Between having Justice or not having neither Justice of Freedom, I choose justice. And even if capitalism is indeed Freedom, I'm still willing to give up my freedom if that makes a little more justice.
I saw many opinions of comunism, and I found out that Marx's socialism consists in everyone being equal.
You need more anarchism in … moreyour life, my friend. I like Marx as much as the next guy, but state socialism will never bring about a free and equal society.
It's kind of a false choice, though, because capitalism (as we know it) is neither free nor just. Historically. It's been all about limiting choices of ordinary people like us.
But there's limited freedom and justice in state socialism too. The bosses are different (the state, instead of monopoly capitalists), but the chores and expectations on the workers are largely the same. Workers in Cuba still don't control much of the production process and a large chunk of their meager pay still probably goes to the politicians, just as it does in capitalist countries. Also, as the state grows and controls more of the economy and social life, the potential to abuse people becomes much greater.
I like justice, but personally, I think freedom from the state is more important, and even a necessary part of achieving true justice.
(Anyways, I still choose Anarchism all the way.)
Cool! There's some good anarchist resources (in English or Spanish) that I can link you to, if you want.
You need more anarchism in your life, my friend
HELL YEAH
I like Marx as much as the next guy, but state socialism will never … morebring about a free and equal society
It's something I've been thinking about for a long time. You can do whatever you want and hurt everyone, or you can make sure most people is ok, but have limited freedom. Capitalism is "Freedom", but I think we are all slaves of the system, we feed the rich and starve ourselves. Communism is Justice, we are still slaves of the system, but we feed ourselves, we feed each other, no one starves (in theory). Between having Justice or not having neither Justice of Freedom, I choose justice. And even if capitalism is indeed Freedom, I'm still willing to give up my freedom if that makes a little more justice.
(Anyways, I still choose Anarchism all the way.)
If you look at internet research, you see Obama as a good leader etc. Online research is not reliable information
Firstly, I can find multiple arguements in a simple search, some of which credit and others discredit Obama's leadership.
Secondly, explain to me how books are less susceptible to bias than an article written on the internet. The format on which something is published has no bearing whatsoever.
I cannot provide an online source. I have eye witness reports from 15 people and historical books that show the Castros and their power. The… moreir executions of Black and White Cubans at The Wall. If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
Online is just another way of getting sources. As long as critical thinking is used (e.g. Not getting your facts through HuffPo/Breitbart or Facebook), they're no worse than print sources and certainly much better than anecdotes, which are what your argument hinges upon.
If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
So basically, the only way someone could disagree with you about Obama is if they use shoddy sources? Doesn't seem like an attitude that's conducive to having actual, constructive discussion.
I cannot provide an online source. I have eye witness reports from 15 people and historical books that show the Castros and their power. The… moreir executions of Black and White Cubans at The Wall. If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
Are the Kurds evil? In Rojava, they're starting down the path toward communism, while simultaneously taking on the lion's share of fighting against ISIS. There's more to the ideology than the deformed worker states of last century, though admittedly, they have poisoned the well somewhat.
There's plenty of facts as to why Obama is a failed leader, we working class people can tell you that. Anyone that says the economy is good is delirious. You should read Fidel and The Longest Romance. That's two good books to start with. The Internet is a terrible place to research. Type in Fidel Castro hated Whites. First things that come up is Trump is racist, Fidel helped Blacks. Anyone can make up things on the Internet as most journalists are not historians. In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees. Anecdotes, lol. How about my research was done with books at a university of my state, with my teachers owning a masters degree in History. One of them I talk to on a daily basis. We talk about racial inequality and he agreed with me about Sanger and LBJ. A man that got me into history agrees with me and my writings. Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max. You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
Online is just another way of getting sources. As long as critical thinking is used (e.g. Not getting your facts through HuffPo/Breitbart o… morer Facebook), they're no worse than print sources and certainly much better than anecdotes, which are what your argument hinges upon.
If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
So basically, the only way someone could disagree with you about Obama is if they use shoddy sources? Doesn't seem like an attitude that's conducive to having actual, constructive discussion.
In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees.
And so that make them objective? Nope. You just have to read thermidorians books to notice that a book can lie as much. Having a degree won't make you closer to truth, nor making you smarter, nor reducing subjectivity.
There's plenty of facts as to why Obama is a failed leader, we working class people can tell you that. Anyone that says the economy is good … moreis delirious. You should read Fidel and The Longest Romance. That's two good books to start with. The Internet is a terrible place to research. Type in Fidel Castro hated Whites. First things that come up is Trump is racist, Fidel helped Blacks. Anyone can make up things on the Internet as most journalists are not historians. In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees. Anecdotes, lol. How about my research was done with books at a university of my state, with my teachers owning a masters degree in History. One of them I talk to on a daily basis. We talk about racial inequality and he agreed with me about Sanger and LBJ. A man that got me into history agrees with me and my writings. Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max. You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
Just took a look at the Longest Romances' author. Judging by his reviews, he tends to be rather biased. Neither can I find "Fidel". Pray tell, by whom was that authoured?
Also, We cannot rely on your personal annecdotes in regards to your history classes and take your word for it, because as random, nameless persons on the internet, none of us are certified sources from which to provide information. For all any on here can know, citing personal experiences could be just lies. Not that you are necessarily a liar, but that annecdotes are not inherently reliable information, for we've no reason to trust them.
Thirdly, being a historian does not necessarily make someone unbiased - look at Bill O'Reilly
Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max
That is an argumentum ad hominem. Attacking Max's motive, regardless of whether it is true or not (not that it necessarily is) does not adress the points being made at all. Furthermore, when did Max state that he got his sources from PolitiFact? If he did no such thing, then what you said is purely conjecture, and on its own compounds the argumentum ad hominem fallacy.
There's plenty of facts as to why Obama is a failed leader, we working class people can tell you that. Anyone that says the economy is good … moreis delirious. You should read Fidel and The Longest Romance. That's two good books to start with. The Internet is a terrible place to research. Type in Fidel Castro hated Whites. First things that come up is Trump is racist, Fidel helped Blacks. Anyone can make up things on the Internet as most journalists are not historians. In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees. Anecdotes, lol. How about my research was done with books at a university of my state, with my teachers owning a masters degree in History. One of them I talk to on a daily basis. We talk about racial inequality and he agreed with me about Sanger and LBJ. A man that got me into history agrees with me and my writings. Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max. You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
Communism does not work...nor Capitalism. The reason they do not is because humans are involved....it is only normal that people rig the system to benefit themselves. That is a story as old as history. Let us be clear....the science of communism and capitalism are unattainable. I believe that on a subconscious level...humanity understands that the illusion of freedom and social contentment works only when you have polarizing figures to blindly love or hate.
Everyone hates a dictator, yet on a global scale...such people as Castro or Hitler...Mao do more to bring people together to try and achieve better...even though it is impossible. These occasional figures, some truly horrifying, are natures way of insuring that humanity does not fall fully into chaotic self destruction. Which of course is a very cynical view that boils down to...hey that guy is horrible and makes people suffer...lets band together in common cause and do something about it. Lets people forget how unfair their own governments are and wraps everything up in a sense of national pride.
Shit...did I just make the case for why dictators are a good thing? Subconsciously humanity is willing to go thru horrible atrocities just to bring the human hive back into balance.
Communism...Democracy..Socialism...meaningless ideas that just hide the fact that our society sacrifices millions to keep the whole from falling apart.
Are the Kurds evil? In Rojava, they're starting down the path toward communism, while simultaneously taking on the lion's share of fighting… more against ISIS. There's more to the ideology than the deformed worker states of last century, though admittedly, they have poisoned the well somewhat.
Because while communism sounds great in theory, human nature inevitably spoils it, as Kennyshouladiedins1 mentioned. This isn't to say this is untrue of capitalism, which has its own negative externalities-- but history has proved that communism also ends up benefiting the few at the expense of the many.
I should back up a minute and clarify that prescribed, revolutionary communism has been shown to be a bad idea, versus the kind Marx had in mind as a natural end point of capitalism. Is there a practical difference? Debatable, perhaps.
But even so, there are some inherent difficulties with communism that society would struggle with even if a thirst for power were a non-factor. Some of the biggest problems with communism, for example, are the efficient allocation of resources, and the lack of incentive to participate. How do you encourage people to participate in a communist system? Some people are naturally motivated and innovative, but many are not. How do you compel those individuals? More importantly, WHO should compel them?
This post is by no means meant to be exhaustive, but I hope it starts you on thinking more critically about it as a solution. Ever read Animal Farm? George Orwell? Highly recommend if not.
Dayum, and I thought I was a pessimist. Didn't realize how much of an optimist I really am.
The reason they do not is because humans are involved....it is only normal that people rig the system to benefit themselves. That is a story as old as history.
Not really. Humans have been organizing their own societies for thousand upon thousands of years, Capitalism and Communism are very new concepts, only dating back to the 1800's. Capitalism and Marxian Socialism are two methods of organizing mass production which itself is a concept that's days are numbered.
I believe that on a subconscious level...humanity understands that the illusion of freedom and social contentment works only when you have polarizing figures to blindly love or hate.
How do you explain the relatively free people that have thrived around the world since before recorded history.
I'm not sure what to make of your point about dictators, it just seems to take the condition of present day and paint it as something that's been happening throughout history. Through most of history, humanity has never been this centralized. It's still an interesting read though. However, doesn't all of this lead you to the conclusion that the state in general may be the big evil here, rather than the dictator?
Communism...Democracy..Socialism...meaningless ideas that just hide the fact that our society sacrifices millions to keep the whole from falling apart.
Last time I checked, the Kurds weren't sacrificing lots of people. They were Starting collective farming and organizing their government in such a way that makes sense for their culture and material conditions. Outside of the iron grip of the state, spontaneous order has done great things for societies throughout history, be it a mercantile order or a communal, moneyless order. The common denominator in the cycle of self-sacrifice and oppression you describe is the state.
Communism does not work...nor Capitalism. The reason they do not is because humans are involved....it is only normal that people rig the sy… morestem to benefit themselves. That is a story as old as history. Let us be clear....the science of communism and capitalism are unattainable. I believe that on a subconscious level...humanity understands that the illusion of freedom and social contentment works only when you have polarizing figures to blindly love or hate.
Everyone hates a dictator, yet on a global scale...such people as Castro or Hitler...Mao do more to bring people together to try and achieve better...even though it is impossible. These occasional figures, some truly horrifying, are natures way of insuring that humanity does not fall fully into chaotic self destruction. Which of course is a very cynical view that boils down to...hey that guy is horrible and makes people suffer...lets band together in common cause and do something … [view original content]
See the thing about anecdotes is I have no way of knowing if any of what you just said is true. You seem to have convenient "personal experience" for every point, making it impossible for people to scrutinize it or the sources behind it. You can't expect a debate to get anywhere like that. Personal accounts are the last refuge for someone with nothing else to back up what he's saying.
Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max.
Lol, you are the only person I have these problems with most of the time. I've never debated anyone here so dishonest, pig-headed or rude. I've never had to call out the other conservatives here for such things. And yeah, I used a cursory fact check about your Sanger claim (and I'm glad I did cause it was false and a Herman Cain meme). That doesn't make me wholly dependent on fact-checking websites.
You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
Don't want to be accused of getting your arguments from Facebook memes? Don't use meme-tier arguments.
There's plenty of facts as to why Obama is a failed leader, we working class people can tell you that. Anyone that says the economy is good … moreis delirious. You should read Fidel and The Longest Romance. That's two good books to start with. The Internet is a terrible place to research. Type in Fidel Castro hated Whites. First things that come up is Trump is racist, Fidel helped Blacks. Anyone can make up things on the Internet as most journalists are not historians. In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees. Anecdotes, lol. How about my research was done with books at a university of my state, with my teachers owning a masters degree in History. One of them I talk to on a daily basis. We talk about racial inequality and he agreed with me about Sanger and LBJ. A man that got me into history agrees with me and my writings. Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max. You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
It's kind of a false choice, though, because capitalism (as we know it) is neither free nor just. Historically. It's been all about limitin… moreg choices of ordinary people like us.
But there's limited freedom and justice in state socialism too. The bosses are different (the state, instead of monopoly capitalists), but the chores and expectations on the workers are largely the same. Workers in Cuba still don't control much of the production process and a large chunk of their meager pay still probably goes to the politicians, just as it does in capitalist countries. Also, as the state grows and controls more of the economy and social life, the potential to abuse people becomes much greater.
I like justice, but personally, I think freedom from the state is more important, and even a necessary part of achieving true justice.
(Anyways, I still choose Anarchism all the way.)
Cool! There's some good anarchist resources (in English or Spanish) that I can link you to, if you want.
Fidel by Humberto Fontova. Longest Romance is by a man that grew up in Cuba during Fidel's popular years, his dad was kept as a prisoner. He has various degrees. Degrees are important and the author is telling the truth about Fidel, historical facts. I give the truth and book sources. I'm not rude or pig headed. So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol. Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
See the thing about anecdotes is I have no way of knowing if any of what you just said is true. You seem to have convenient "personal exper… moreience" for every point, making it impossible for people to scrutinize it or the sources behind it. You can't expect a debate to get anywhere like that. Personal accounts are the last refuge for someone with nothing else to back up what he's saying.
Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max.
Lol, you are the only person I have these problems with most of the time. I've never debated anyone here so dishonest, pig-headed or rude. I've never had to call out the other conservatives here for such things. And yeah, I used a cursory fact check about your Sanger claim (and I'm glad I did cause it was false and a Herman Cain meme). That doesn't make me wholly dependent on fact-checking websites.
You thought that I got news from Facebook memes,… [view original content]
Your post on this and other threads, say otherwise.
So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol.
if if they led you to your conclusions about the trail of tears and your made up statistics about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, then yes, they haven't done you any favors. Also, I thought I just established in the previous post that your accusations about me only using politifact are a baseless and lame attempt to discredit my points. Why continue?
Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Nah, I feel no need to concede defeat. But I'd be happy to stop interacting with you if you'd do me the same courtesy. I debate to learn new things and sharpen my own logic, and you aren't giving me many opportunities to do either. You evidently have a similar lack of respect for me, so we might as well end it.
Fidel by Humberto Fontova. Longest Romance is by a man that grew up in Cuba during Fidel's popular years, his dad was kept as a prisoner. H… moree has various degrees. Degrees are important and the author is telling the truth about Fidel, historical facts. I give the truth and book sources. I'm not rude or pig headed. So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol. Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
That phrase has had so many bad moments and associations that I'm not sure how I should take it. Are you using it in an ironic context or are you serious?
Also IF you meant it seriously I know what you mean and understand your sentiment, but it's really not accurate to this. The 'Fate of all tyrants' is to be murdered or dethroned by the righteous. Castro was neither.
By this context what you are saying is that the fate of tyrants is the same as all men: Death. So you are literally saying: Castro was a man so his fate was to die.
Yeah, like banjo said his brother Raul has been in power for almost 3-4 years now and has been stable. Castro's death is more symbolic and important on a global scale, I doubt Raul himself will lose any power. It seems Castro's legacy will live on not only in history and memory, but in application as well.
I just realized something.
Tropico series is probably inspired from Cuba and its famous leader Fidel Castro.
Now I wonder who will replace him while actually managing to stay in power more than a few days.
Comments
[removed]
I cannot provide an online source. I have eye witness reports from 15 people and historical books that show the Castros and their power. Their executions of Black and White Cubans at The Wall. If you look at Internet research, you see Obama as a good leader, etc. Online research is not reliable information.
Source?
He was willing to destroy the world; Castro would have nuked America if not for JFK, ultimately ending the world. Yes, he is some monster ok with destroying the universe (and executing millions and sending gay people to "re-education" school). Did I mention he hated gay people so much he murdered them in cold blood?
Lol what?
Sorry, but you're just wrong about this one. Castro was a terrible, terrible human being, and he honestly deserves a fate far worse than death. It's just like when people gathered in D.C. and Times Square to celebrate Bin Laden's death. Both deserve death and people to cheer their deaths.
I wonder if anyone was ever friends with you in real life.
For fucks sake, how in the hell can you praise a mass murdering, commie psychopath? He was ready to actually end the fucking world. I can go on and on about how truly evil, rotten, and vile this piece of human filth and garbage is. Rest in Hell, Fidel Castro. Rest in Hell.
The United States government has been trying the kill Castro for 57 years, Trump gets elected and 3 weeks later, Castro is dead. The mere thought of Trump gets dictators and commies killed! He's already Making America Great Again!
Yes i do have irl friends, now, can you say the same?
Trump confirmed as practitioner of dark rituals.
Liar.
For fuck sake, I thought about giving you a good answer, but then I read your comment a couple more times and I realised there is no point in trying to change the views of people that refuse to see beyond one explanation. I saw many opinions of comunism, and I found out that Marx's socialism consists in everyone being equal. What do other people around the globe think about Castro? What did Castro truly did? I found some people that say that he fought for the revolution of Cuba, and other people, like you, that believe he was Hitler. What is the reason behind this difference?
What is your argument to fundament your opinion? Who told you he was like that?
That could not be further than a valid reason. These are links, not fundaments.
This is why you have not friends here, Mr. Trump Fan.
WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH COMMUNISM!?
You need more anarchism in your life, my friend. I like Marx as much as the next guy, but state socialism will never bring about a free and equal society.
HELL YEAH
It's something I've been thinking about for a long time. You can do whatever you want and hurt everyone, or you can make sure most people is ok, but have limited freedom. Capitalism is "Freedom", but I think we are all slaves of the system, we feed the rich and starve ourselves. Communism is Justice, we are still slaves of the system, but we feed ourselves, we feed each other, no one starves (in theory). Between having Justice or not having neither Justice of Freedom, I choose justice. And even if capitalism is indeed Freedom, I'm still willing to give up my freedom if that makes a little more justice.
(Anyways, I still choose Anarchism all the way.)
It's kind of a false choice, though, because capitalism (as we know it) is neither free nor just. Historically. It's been all about limiting choices of ordinary people like us.
But there's limited freedom and justice in state socialism too. The bosses are different (the state, instead of monopoly capitalists), but the chores and expectations on the workers are largely the same. Workers in Cuba still don't control much of the production process and a large chunk of their meager pay still probably goes to the politicians, just as it does in capitalist countries. Also, as the state grows and controls more of the economy and social life, the potential to abuse people becomes much greater.
I like justice, but personally, I think freedom from the state is more important, and even a necessary part of achieving true justice.
Cool! There's some good anarchist resources (in English or Spanish) that I can link you to, if you want.
Which historical books?
Firstly, I can find multiple arguements in a simple search, some of which credit and others discredit Obama's leadership.
Secondly, explain to me how books are less susceptible to bias than an article written on the internet. The format on which something is published has no bearing whatsoever.
Online is just another way of getting sources. As long as critical thinking is used (e.g. Not getting your facts through HuffPo/Breitbart or Facebook), they're no worse than print sources and certainly much better than anecdotes, which are what your argument hinges upon.
So basically, the only way someone could disagree with you about Obama is if they use shoddy sources? Doesn't seem like an attitude that's conducive to having actual, constructive discussion.
Well... communism is sort of... evil. I mean, it doesn't work and it only equates to pain and suffering.
Are the Kurds evil? In Rojava, they're starting down the path toward communism, while simultaneously taking on the lion's share of fighting against ISIS. There's more to the ideology than the deformed worker states of last century, though admittedly, they have poisoned the well somewhat.
There's plenty of facts as to why Obama is a failed leader, we working class people can tell you that. Anyone that says the economy is good is delirious. You should read Fidel and The Longest Romance. That's two good books to start with. The Internet is a terrible place to research. Type in Fidel Castro hated Whites. First things that come up is Trump is racist, Fidel helped Blacks. Anyone can make up things on the Internet as most journalists are not historians. In a real book, the author tells were they graduated from and their degrees. Anecdotes, lol. How about my research was done with books at a university of my state, with my teachers owning a masters degree in History. One of them I talk to on a daily basis. We talk about racial inequality and he agreed with me about Sanger and LBJ. A man that got me into history agrees with me and my writings. Your arguments revolve around politifact and needing to feel smart about everything, Max. You thought that I got news from Facebook memes, when I stated that I don't.
And so that make them objective? Nope. You just have to read thermidorians books to notice that a book can lie as much. Having a degree won't make you closer to truth, nor making you smarter, nor reducing subjectivity.
Just took a look at the Longest Romances' author. Judging by his reviews, he tends to be rather biased. Neither can I find "Fidel". Pray tell, by whom was that authoured?
Also, We cannot rely on your personal annecdotes in regards to your history classes and take your word for it, because as random, nameless persons on the internet, none of us are certified sources from which to provide information. For all any on here can know, citing personal experiences could be just lies. Not that you are necessarily a liar, but that annecdotes are not inherently reliable information, for we've no reason to trust them.
Thirdly, being a historian does not necessarily make someone unbiased - look at Bill O'Reilly
That is an argumentum ad hominem. Attacking Max's motive, regardless of whether it is true or not (not that it necessarily is) does not adress the points being made at all. Furthermore, when did Max state that he got his sources from PolitiFact? If he did no such thing, then what you said is purely conjecture, and on its own compounds the argumentum ad hominem fallacy.
Wikipedia?
[grins nervously]
Communism does not work...nor Capitalism. The reason they do not is because humans are involved....it is only normal that people rig the system to benefit themselves. That is a story as old as history. Let us be clear....the science of communism and capitalism are unattainable. I believe that on a subconscious level...humanity understands that the illusion of freedom and social contentment works only when you have polarizing figures to blindly love or hate.
Everyone hates a dictator, yet on a global scale...such people as Castro or Hitler...Mao do more to bring people together to try and achieve better...even though it is impossible. These occasional figures, some truly horrifying, are natures way of insuring that humanity does not fall fully into chaotic self destruction. Which of course is a very cynical view that boils down to...hey that guy is horrible and makes people suffer...lets band together in common cause and do something about it. Lets people forget how unfair their own governments are and wraps everything up in a sense of national pride.
Shit...did I just make the case for why dictators are a good thing? Subconsciously humanity is willing to go thru horrible atrocities just to bring the human hive back into balance.
Communism...Democracy..Socialism...meaningless ideas that just hide the fact that our society sacrifices millions to keep the whole from falling apart.
Because while communism sounds great in theory, human nature inevitably spoils it, as Kennyshouladiedins1 mentioned. This isn't to say this is untrue of capitalism, which has its own negative externalities-- but history has proved that communism also ends up benefiting the few at the expense of the many.
I should back up a minute and clarify that prescribed, revolutionary communism has been shown to be a bad idea, versus the kind Marx had in mind as a natural end point of capitalism. Is there a practical difference? Debatable, perhaps.
But even so, there are some inherent difficulties with communism that society would struggle with even if a thirst for power were a non-factor. Some of the biggest problems with communism, for example, are the efficient allocation of resources, and the lack of incentive to participate. How do you encourage people to participate in a communist system? Some people are naturally motivated and innovative, but many are not. How do you compel those individuals? More importantly, WHO should compel them?
This post is by no means meant to be exhaustive, but I hope it starts you on thinking more critically about it as a solution. Ever read Animal Farm? George Orwell? Highly recommend if not.
Dayum, and I thought I was a pessimist. Didn't realize how much of an optimist I really am.
Not really. Humans have been organizing their own societies for thousand upon thousands of years, Capitalism and Communism are very new concepts, only dating back to the 1800's. Capitalism and Marxian Socialism are two methods of organizing mass production which itself is a concept that's days are numbered.
How do you explain the relatively free people that have thrived around the world since before recorded history.
I'm not sure what to make of your point about dictators, it just seems to take the condition of present day and paint it as something that's been happening throughout history. Through most of history, humanity has never been this centralized. It's still an interesting read though. However, doesn't all of this lead you to the conclusion that the state in general may be the big evil here, rather than the dictator?
Last time I checked, the Kurds weren't sacrificing lots of people. They were Starting collective farming and organizing their government in such a way that makes sense for their culture and material conditions. Outside of the iron grip of the state, spontaneous order has done great things for societies throughout history, be it a mercantile order or a communal, moneyless order. The common denominator in the cycle of self-sacrifice and oppression you describe is the state.
See the thing about anecdotes is I have no way of knowing if any of what you just said is true. You seem to have convenient "personal experience" for every point, making it impossible for people to scrutinize it or the sources behind it. You can't expect a debate to get anywhere like that. Personal accounts are the last refuge for someone with nothing else to back up what he's saying.
Lol, you are the only person I have these problems with most of the time. I've never debated anyone here so dishonest, pig-headed or rude. I've never had to call out the other conservatives here for such things. And yeah, I used a cursory fact check about your Sanger claim (and I'm glad I did cause it was false and a Herman Cain meme). That doesn't make me wholly dependent on fact-checking websites.
Don't want to be accused of getting your arguments from Facebook memes? Don't use meme-tier arguments.
Yankee wikipedia, obviously.
Thanks! I would love that!
And what are your sources? Popular knowledge?
...
Fidel by Humberto Fontova. Longest Romance is by a man that grew up in Cuba during Fidel's popular years, his dad was kept as a prisoner. He has various degrees. Degrees are important and the author is telling the truth about Fidel, historical facts. I give the truth and book sources. I'm not rude or pig headed. So your politifact is right and my degree in History and my old teacher that has a master degree are wrong, lol. Come on man admit you're wrong and drop it. I'm un bias in my research.
Good, we finally coaxed some sources out of you.
Your post on this and other threads, say otherwise.
if if they led you to your conclusions about the trail of tears and your made up statistics about the Civil Rights Act of 1957, then yes, they haven't done you any favors. Also, I thought I just established in the previous post that your accusations about me only using politifact are a baseless and lame attempt to discredit my points. Why continue?
Nah, I feel no need to concede defeat. But I'd be happy to stop interacting with you if you'd do me the same courtesy. I debate to learn new things and sharpen my own logic, and you aren't giving me many opportunities to do either. You evidently have a similar lack of respect for me, so we might as well end it.
Anarchy Works
La anarquía funciona
I'll add more later.
That phrase has had so many bad moments and associations that I'm not sure how I should take it. Are you using it in an ironic context or are you serious?
Also IF you meant it seriously I know what you mean and understand your sentiment, but it's really not accurate to this. The 'Fate of all tyrants' is to be murdered or dethroned by the righteous. Castro was neither.
By this context what you are saying is that the fate of tyrants is the same as all men: Death. So you are literally saying: Castro was a man so his fate was to die.
Yeah, like banjo said his brother Raul has been in power for almost 3-4 years now and has been stable. Castro's death is more symbolic and important on a global scale, I doubt Raul himself will lose any power. It seems Castro's legacy will live on not only in history and memory, but in application as well.