Yeah, poor Sarah. But TT logic just doesn't fly. Like I'm to believe Javier doesn't carry a weapon besides that hammer, and no one else has anything, yet they all made it this far. They really think we are that gullible. smh
Unfortunately, that's been a sentiment since Season 2 for some people. Still, Gabe and Mariana had been implied to have some degree of train… moreing anyway, so it's not out of nowhere as far as I'm concerned. I think the series itself operates(or used to) on the idea that anyone can be a survivor(read:badass/useful enough) if they just get the chance. Yet, they still felt the need to keep Sarah from properly participating in the Observation Deck defense.
I honestly felt the exact opposite. The first half of season 2 was slow and boring. Just a way to make you sympathize with the Cabin Group and create this aura about Carver. The last 2 episodes of season 2 are the ones I enjoyed the most. It had the most drama and conflict, internally and externally, even though I was on Kenny's side the whole time.
But I agree, I was with Kenny through the whole time. I didn't steal from the Russian prick the first time through, but he still screwed us all over and got Luke killed in my playthrough. He deserved a bullet in a brain.
To me, it was "derailed" only because when he yelled repeatedly at Arvo I couldn't have cared less, yet my only options were many different … morealterations of, "KENNY, NO!!! STOP NOW!!"
Arvo is the little piece of .... who demanded that his Russian gang light up my group even when I was insisting repeatedly that no one took the drugs-- just the Jane twit.
So it was just nonstop "ARVO, LISTEN TO ME. SHUTUP!" and my reply of, "..........."
As other people have noted, the first half of season two is good-- not great, good. The second half is so much bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhh.
Yeah, I know. Sarah and Arvo at least had the excuse that they were under the protection of Carlos/Luke/Carver at Howe's Hardware and Buricko/Natasha at the Abandoned House with any extensive conflict and danger being kept to a minimum; the Garcia's on the other hand have been constantly on the move in their minivan (to steal a line from @firewallvolcano) acting like their on a camping trip, with Kate apparently keeping them on a careful regiment even with Javier being the "Good Cop". While I'm willing to suspend my disbelief in certain cases, I can't deny that this is especially weird considering how much trouble they've been in during one composite episode.
Yeah, poor Sarah. But TT logic just doesn't fly. Like I'm to believe Javier doesn't carry a weapon besides that hammer, and no one else has anything, yet they all made it this far. They really think we are that gullible. smh
Wait, David is supposed to be the main villain? lol Could have fooled me. I agree, he just comes off as a major jerk and nothing else. It could be possible that TT just assumed since they introduced him, and how much of a jerk he is, that it would be the logical conclusion that he would become some sort of villain in the apocalypse. eye roll
David isn't a good villain so far. Carver at least remained interesting in A House Divided, Norma was a well written villain as she acted as… more a reasonable counter balance between her cartoonishly evil brother but David just seems like an asshole. I think it would be more interesting if he had been written as more likeable in his first few appearances. It would make the plot twist a lot more surprising or if there is someone higher up in the ranks pulling the strings. He still has potential to be well written (let's hope)
The first half of season 2 was slow and boring. Just a way to make you sympathize with the Cabin Group and create this aura about Carver.
Which makes it all the more disappointing when they got demoted to extras and started dropping like flies--literally in Sarah("canonically") and Luke's cases.
I honestly felt the exact opposite. The first half of season 2 was slow and boring. Just a way to make you sympathize with the Cabin Group a… morend create this aura about Carver. The last 2 episodes of season 2 are the ones I enjoyed the most. It had the most drama and conflict, internally and externally, even though I was on Kenny's side the whole time.
But I agree, I was with Kenny through the whole time. I didn't steal from the Russian prick the first time through, but he still screwed us all over and got Luke killed in my playthrough. He deserved a bullet in a brain.
I have a feeling David is going to shut down once he finds about what happened to Mariana, Kate, and the people of Prescott (especially since they weren't his orders). I know a lot of people make comparisons of Tripp and Kenny, but David is giving me some serious Kenny vibes (especially with his loyalty to family).
Of course, I'm wary about this because the last time Kenny showed up everyone got side-lined including Clem. We don't need New Frontier to become Edgy Kenny 2.0 and Friends (ft. Javier and a Special Guest Appearance from Clementine)
Wait, David is supposed to be the main villain? lol Could have fooled me. I agree, he just comes off as a major jerk and nothing else. It co… moreuld be possible that TT just assumed since they introduced him, and how much of a jerk he is, that it would be the logical conclusion that he would become some sort of villain in the apocalypse. eye roll
Same here! Every episode is good, even though some are better then others for sure. Though my least favorite is actually from S1, The long road ahead. So its been awhile since ive been "disappointed" though I still found the episode enjoyable for sure.
I haven't disliked a single episode of the entire game series thus far.
I mean, there are elements of different episodes that I disliked,… more and I definitely have a least favorite (Amid The Ruins), but there hasn't been one episode that I flat-out didn't like. Yet. Though I doubt that's going to change after... how many episodes of this series now? 16?
I am a very tough person to disappoint
Eh, I think my ranking would mostly be based on the character themself unless the gameplay is a pain in the ass, but this is the best I can come up with for both:
Lee>Shel>Clementine>Michonne(from what I've seen anyway)>Bonnie>Javier>Tavia>Russell>Vince>Wyatt
Funnily enough, Javier barely ranks above Taavia, while Clementine is a such a mixed bag that it's hard to rank her any lower.
Yeah.
My overall ranking of all the protagonists is Lee > Javier > 400 Days crew > Clementine > Michonne
Now keep in mind, I like some of these guys as characters. But as playable characters, not so much.
I mean honestly, though, how would you respond if someone just showed up at your camp, took your gasoline, ate your food and looked to be bedding down for the night at your site? Probably wouldn't be too happy and probably would wanna kill em
Max is still an asshole. He started the whole confrontation with the group to begin with and refuses to make any comprimises or work with yo… moreu in his first encounter. He flips shit over a cup of pudding while claiming he understands it's a hard time and blames it all on us. He's another example of a badly written character
But I wouldn't say that they become "extras". The different approaches that each group had really made the last few episodes the best.
But I mean that's kinda the telltale/TWD staple. Introduce characters, establish attachment, kill characters. Even in Season 1, literally only Kenny (though he was basically gone for end of ep5) and Clem made it all the way to the end of the season. Omid and Christa showed up late and they survived, but everyone else just "dropped like flies" and again, literally in Ben's case.
The first half of season 2 was slow and boring. Just a way to make you sympathize with the Cabin Group and create this aura about Carver.
… more
Which makes it all the more disappointing when they got demoted to extras and started dropping like flies--literally in Sarah("canonically") and Luke's cases.
He deserved a bullet in a brain.
Because he had more than one, apparently.
The main reason it went over far better compared to Season 2 both back then and nowadays is because almost all of the deaths served a purpose and was treated with the appropriate respect and gravity, with only Chuck being an exception and even then, he was a recently introduced minor character, had already served his important purpose to the story, and is given some condolences from Lee.
Ben is the best handled determinant character because not only does he get some decent screentime and prominence after he determinant, but his canon death ultimately serves to give Kenny such a noteworthy sendoff; dropping him in Crawford means you miss out of both of their character developments and the final episode feels noticeably empty without him.
Meanwhile, Duck and Larry are both mourned by not only their respective family members but the other characters as well despite their unpopularity amongst the fanbase, as they were still allies and lost lives at the end of the day.
Season 2, on the other hand, made the already generally accepted as lesser writing worse by introducing characters only to be killed off with bare minimal characterization and development.
Carlos in particular is the absolute worst about this, as his already usurped role means he's nothing more than a plot device and a strawman despite clearly meaning well and being introduced as a somewhat significant figure.
Alvin and especially Sarita are more or less satellite characters to their spouse and supposed boyfriend, with Alvin getting off better than both due to actually being given a decent sendoff and being relevant by virtue of being the generally accepted father of AJ, one of the select few survivors of the Season; Sarita is just there to (politely) drip over Kenny and die to solidify his sanity slippage.
And who could forget about Troy's honestly kinda odd Heel Face Door Slam?
The few exceptions to the rule are controversial for exactly that reason, as Luke, Sarah, and (for some reason) Nick are given the most concentrated focus, characterization, and/or development of the Howe's Russian Ski Cabin Group after Jane.
Out of those three, Luke is the most accepted by virtue of actually having a plot-relevant death after surviving until the halfway point of the finale, at the cost of making his fight-hyping character derailment(and arguably, a majority of his character in general) completely pointless.
Nick's arc more or less ended in the Episode it happened in, which means he's just a carryover with a disproportionate amount of complexity who hangs around for an episode doing fuck all plotwise besides being Luke and [one of] Kenny's cheerleader before turning up undead in the next episode due to further cementing the depressing tone(and his voice actor apparently being unavailable), which imo would've been fine if he had more screentime and/or focus to make it hit hard enough.
And Sarah is generally considered to be the worst handled determinant character because, unlike most of the other OGs, she had arguably the most dedicated character arc throughout the Season(with Rebecca and technically Kenny being the rival contenders), had more "meaningful" choices associated with her than a majority of the others, and was ripe for more solidified development before suddenly becoming the first character to be killed off in the same episode she became determinant because potatoes, with the choice around her death being completely pointless aside from one or two alternate lines of dialogue immediately after she dies.
What makes Sarah's case even more egregious confusing is the fact that the episode was almost certainly meant to be just as much her episode as it was Jane's(right down to the credits song being from her point of view), Carlos's existence is doubly pointless since we barely get much interaction with her or exposition on him, and that her "canon" death happens of the climax of the episode--a scene that barely had anything to do with her nor any extensive variation in her absence(right down to the camera angle when Clementine and Miek make the deck completely collapse)--when they really could've just waited a few more minutes until the very end of the episode(which literally has a shootout that cuts to black) so it'd be less moodwhiplashy, sloppy, and awkwardly timed.
And how about the fact that many of the latter two characters go virtually unmentioned after their deaths after they're listed as simple statistics during Luke's development, with Rebecca/Bonnie seemingly being more upset about Nick/Sarah's death than Luke and Sarah in particular is more or less forgotten by everyone except Jane of all people(who brings up her regardless of your choice as a projection of her sister despite seemingly referring to "her luck running out") after the baby is born, despite the fact that she was determinately Clementine's friend and Luke(with his Hero Complex) and Kenny(the Family Man) getting into an argument about the exact cause of her canonical death.
Yeah, whoops, sorry, typo lol.
But I wouldn't say that they become "extras". The different approaches that each group had really made the… more last few episodes the best.
But I mean that's kinda the telltale/TWD staple. Introduce characters, establish attachment, kill characters. Even in Season 1, literally only Kenny (though he was basically gone for end of ep5) and Clem made it all the way to the end of the season. Omid and Christa showed up late and they survived, but everyone else just "dropped like flies" and again, literally in Ben's case.
Why make new characters to be protagonists when you can still use the ones that barely had any screentime anyway and are all presumably stil… morel alive (besides Bonnie in one scenario)
And thats why killing off most of your previous characters wasn't such a good idea.
Jane is empathetic. She acts a bit insensitive because she hasn't been very social for a long time. I mean she immediately apologises to Rebecca when she realises she's overstepped her boundries talking about the baby.
And I suppose Rebecca gettin ready to sit on her had nothing to do with it...?
The point is that Clementine doesn't really act like Clementine anymore, but rather some edgy smuggler.
No. If someone was just there by coincidence and hadn't ransacked the whole thing I'd be far more understandable. As long as they were willing to return the supplies and seems sorry.
I mean honestly, though, how would you respond if someone just showed up at your camp, took your gasoline, ate your food and looked to be bedding down for the night at your site? Probably wouldn't be too happy and probably would wanna kill em
Rebecca can't be trusted. She's unstable emotionally because she's pregnant as shit. Jane had a good point.
Rebecca can't be trusted because she's pregnant as shit.
Great logic there, Jane. And she should know--she's an expert!
If you ask me, Max wasn't really on Javier's case about the pudding, he was more concerned about the fact that he thought Javier was bullshitting. He thought Javier was the fall guy for whatever the rest of his group was planning. He'd probably be willing to look past the whole pudding thing, if he didn't think that Javier was lying and looking for the opportunity to stab him in the back.
And to be fair, he was half-right about Javier; he was technically lying-- he was with a bigger group, and they were indeed hiding nearby. But said group was his family, and represented no real threat to Max or his buddies.
"You ain't the loner type. I can tell. I know you got people!" - Max immediately has Javier pinned as being part of a group. And all of Javier's responses have him pussyfooting around the subject; "oh they're out scouting" or "oh they left". Naturally, he doesn't buy any of those explanations.
"You can't just take what you like. I don't roll over like that." - Like most survivors would be, he's quite defensive over his shit, and more importantly, people apparently attempting to steal his shit. And hell, he's practically a bandit himself when you think about it. He'd know better than to give the benefit of the doubt to any random survivor he comes across.
"I ain't gonna let it be like the last time some assholes rolled on us." - Implies that at some point, he ran into a similar situation, gave the wrong person the benefit of the doubt and it wound up biting him in the ass. Javier can seem as apologetic as possible, but for all Max knows, he's just trying to get him to let his guard down.
"You're starving. Who the fuck isn't? At the end of your rope, thought you'd hit paydirt. Honest mistake. But I got this sneaky fucking feeling that you're full of shit." - He considers that maybe Javier really is just a victim of circumstance, but he's more convinced that Javier's just trying to bullshit his way out of the situation. I doubt he was planning on killing Javier or even taking him prisoner. He probably wanted to tie him up and interrogate him or some shit, see if the story checks out. Of course, that changes after he comes back to find his buddy knocked out on the floor, which in his eyes, confirms his beliefs about not trusting Javier.
Like the episode slide says, this all stems from a misunderstanding that turns into a shitshow. Some of Max's people stick around near the junkyard, spot Javier's group, and open fire on the belief that they're the supposed 'thieves' from last night. That leads to Javier's group (or mainly Clementine) fighting back, which eventually leads to them pulling up to Prescott, looking for Javier, who they more or less consider to be the ringleader of this whole thing.
Now you might be thinking "why would they think Javier's behind all of this, that's ridiculous," but you gotta consider that this situation looks a lot different for Max and the other New Frontier people. From their perspective, this all starts with Javier showing up at that junkyard-- they find Javier, he ends up knocking out one of their buddies. They tie him up and try to drive him somewhere, only for him to escape and potentially kill the driver. Then another group of people stumble upon the same junkyard not even a day later, seemingly looking for something. For all intents and purposes, they have more than enough reason to believe that it isn't just coincidence that some random people happened to stumble upon the same junkyard a few hours after they found some guy apparently trying to steal stuff. It's not far-fetched to assume that this was Javier's group, coming back to try to nab whatever they could while they thought the NF were gone.
Back to the gates of Prescott and the standoff: even if Javier comes down, Clementine opens fire on them, instigating a shoot-out that ends with the New Frontier decimating Prescott in the chaos. Either way, Javier or someone with with him ends up opening fire on the New Frontier. So naturally, the NF also open fire, and things go about as well as you'd expect.
And after all of that, what happens next? Javier shows up at the front gate of the New Frontier. Max being all like "your people started this whole fucking thing in the first place"still makes sense here-- he's still under the mistaken belief that Javier was lying back at the junkyard. Combine that with Javier escaping from the truck driver, trying to go back to the junkyard, and Javier's people killing a bunch of his people, and it's understandable why he wouldn't really want to help you. From his perspective, Javier and his people are the ones that threw the first punch. Everything after that was simply Max and his group acting in retaliation/self-defense. Obviously, since we're playing as Javier, we're seeing this situation from a whole different perspective than Max is. From our perspectives, he's the asshole. From Max's perspective, we're the assholes. And neither side is in the mood to give the other the benefit of the doubt.
Like a lot of real life conflicts, this is just something that started over a misunderstanding, where neither side was willing to cut the other any slack.
Max is still an asshole. He started the whole confrontation with the group to begin with and refuses to make any comprimises or work with yo… moreu in his first encounter. He flips shit over a cup of pudding while claiming he understands it's a hard time and blames it all on us. He's another example of a badly written character
David is all about family, even if he's a douche to Javier, he still loves him in his own twisted way. So yeah, I could see him retreating into himself after finding out what happened to his daughter, and that his men are responsible. Plus, based off of what we've already seen, I don't think many of the men and women respect him, or even accept him as their leader. I mean, they attacked Prescott without his go ahead. And that leads me to wonder, what happened to the bald chick Clem met in the trailer - I can't remember her name for anything. I had thought she was the leader? Was she not? Has David always been the leader? And if so, how was he able to keep all these people in line since it's been show that many of them aren't actually in line.
Though I would have to say, at this point, if we are being forced to play characters other than Clem, I would much rather play as David than Javier. At least from his military background, I can believe and understand how he's lasted this long.
I have a feeling David is going to shut down once he finds about what happened to Mariana, Kate, and the people of Prescott (especially sinc… moree they weren't his orders). I know a lot of people make comparisons of Tripp and Kenny, but David is giving me some serious Kenny vibes (especially with his loyalty to family).
Of course, I'm wary about this because the last time Kenny showed up everyone got side-lined including Clem. We don't need New Frontier to become Edgy Kenny 2.0 and Friends (ft. Javier and a Special Guest Appearance from Clementine)
how much trouble they've been in during one composite episode.
Yes, this is what I can't swallow. Besides having to put down his dad and uncle(?) they have not faced any danger since fleeing the house. And I'm supposed to believe that they have been so lucky that they have been able to get fuel for the van, find food and other supplies, and not have to fight any other human off for them.
Meanwhile soon as Lee wok up from his car crash he had to fight off walker cop. Was chased by walkers through a clearing, happened to luck upon Clem's house, and still needed to beat her babysitter's head in. Not to mention help fight off walkers and move stalled vehicles out of the way. And that was at the onset of the outbreak. And lets not even get started on Clem.
At least point, I get that they are trying to lay the backstory and drawn people in to feel for Javier and co. but the formula just doesn't work, and I can't believe that he is some battle born survivor when nothing bad has happened to any of them until they stumbled upon that scrap yard. TT I'm giving you the side-eye. --_--
Yeah, I know. Sarah and Arvo at least had the excuse that they were under the protection of Carlos/Luke/Carver at Howe's Hardware and Burick… moreo/Natasha at the Abandoned House with any extensive conflict and danger being kept to a minimum; the Garcia's on the other hand have been constantly on the move in their minivan (to steal a line from @firewallvolcano) acting like their on a camping trip, with Kate apparently keeping them on a careful regiment even with Javier being the "Good Cop". While I'm willing to suspend my disbelief in certain cases, I can't deny that this is especially weird considering how much trouble they've been in during one composite episode.
Honestly, this seems like something that could use some canonical massaging. The advantage(and cheapness) of timeskips is to give the characters a degree of experience without having to show it. Maybe they could probably take advantage of the flashbacks by giving us insight on an actual previous hostile encounter, like maybe have Gabe and Mariana sitting things out due to the danger while Javier and maybe Kate do all they can to fight off the threat and just barely overcome it, despite not really being as bad as the New Frontier. That way, you'd have some context for Javier's combat skills, Kate's strategy, and Gabe and Mariana's respective obedience and fear would be contrasted by their modern day frustration and frivolity.
how much trouble they've been in during one composite episode.
Yes, this is what I can't swallow. Besides having to put down his dad… more and uncle(?) they have not faced any danger since fleeing the house. And I'm supposed to believe that they have been so lucky that they have been able to get fuel for the van, find food and other supplies, and not have to fight any other human off for them.
Meanwhile soon as Lee wok up from his car crash he had to fight off walker cop. Was chased by walkers through a clearing, happened to luck upon Clem's house, and still needed to beat her babysitter's head in. Not to mention help fight off walkers and move stalled vehicles out of the way. And that was at the onset of the outbreak. And lets not even get started on Clem.
At least point, I get that they are trying to lay the backstory and drawn people in to feel for Javier and co. but the formula just doesn't work, and I can't believe that he is som… [view original content]
Yeah, we get the time jump. But they need to translate that into the now. Make us believe that they have made it this far because they are survivors. But they have yet to prove it. Case in point Javier forgetting his water bottle (seriously!!!), him throwing the gun down after beating up Lonnie (why would you do that?), allowing the kids to roam around the junkyard without doing a safety sweep first.
And they have to explain that weed. ROFL I mean, this is four years in, they just found the week like three days before. Anyone who had raided the place before them would have taken all of that for trading. And really, they found it in a baggie? If it was old weed it would be stale as all get out, and not very good to smoke. And who, trying to survive, has the time to grow, harvest, dry out, chop, then store it in baggies? It just doesn't float.
Gabe should have learned by now that you can't run off with walkers around. They (Javier and Kate) should have shut that nonsense down long before. Mariana is far to chill and relaxed for me to believe she's seen things, and the same for the rest of them. It's just waaaaaay to far fetched for me to believe any of it. I'm like.
Honestly, this seems like something that could use some canonical massaging. The advantage(and cheapness) of timeskips is to give the charac… moreters a degree of experience without having to show it. Maybe they could probably take advantage of the flashbacks by giving us insight on an actual previous hostile encounter, like maybe have Gabe and Mariana sitting things out due to the danger while Javier and maybe Kate do all they can to fight off the threat and just barely overcome it, despite not really being as bad as the New Frontier. That way, you'd have some context for Javier's combat skills, Kate's strategy, and Gabe and Mariana's respective obedience and fear would be contrasted by their modern day frustration and frivolity.
I guess this is where our paths would diverge in the zombie apocalypse. If people showed up to my camp outta the blue and took my stuff, I wouldn't let them just walk away, they might have more people with them, armed people who would come back. I'm not saying that I would kill them, but I would definitely make sure that they knew not to come back, lest they want to have to deal with a fight and that I knew exactly who they were, where they were coming from and where they were going, then I'd send them on their way and make sure they made a good distance between me and them.
No. If someone was just there by coincidence and hadn't ransacked the whole thing I'd be far more understandable. As long as they were willing to return the supplies and seems sorry.
David is all about family, even if he's a douche to Javier, he still loves him in his own twisted way. So yeah, I could see him retreating i… morento himself after finding out what happened to his daughter, and that his men are responsible. Plus, based off of what we've already seen, I don't think many of the men and women respect him, or even accept him as their leader. I mean, they attacked Prescott without his go ahead. And that leads me to wonder, what happened to the bald chick Clem met in the trailer - I can't remember her name for anything. I had thought she was the leader? Was she not? Has David always been the leader? And if so, how was he able to keep all these people in line since it's been show that many of them aren't actually in line.
Though I would have to say, at this point, if we are being forced to play characters other than Clem, I would much rather play as David than Javier. At least from his military background, I can believe and understand how he's lasted this long.
And that leads me to wonder, what happened to the bald chick Clem met in the trailer - I can't remember her name for anything.
Ava.
… more
I had thought she was the leader? Was she not?
No, from what I can tell, she was just a scout who got separated from her friends when the herd showed up.
Well, that's part of the whole One Scene Wonder effect where you remember a character with a relative small role because their design, personality, or disproportionate impact left an impression on you.
So far, she's one for the few new characters whose often given a positive regard in this community by some people , so its not usual that you'd see her as being bigger than she actually is/will be. This is mostly because Ava is one of the only female members of the New Frontier we've seen thus far and, on top of having such an unusual(if a bit Obviously Evil) design, she is also the friendliest member after Max, as her scene has her in an alliance of convenience with Clementine, who's perfectly capable of threatening and being rude towards her, and yet she's casually chatting with her and even showing hints of compassion and genuine concern for her and AJ just as much as for her own allies despite their supposed alignments in the present. Topping things off is the fact that, especially for those who reject her at the end of the flashback, she's apparently "very persuasive" and eventually succeeds in convincing Clementine to join, which suggests a quite few things and gives her this sense of allure and magnificence, something that wouldn't expect of her apparent role as a mere scout.
No, from what I can tell, she was just a scout who got separated from her friends when the herd showed up.
Okay, cool. Not sure why I thought she might have had a higher roll in TNF. Oh well.
True, so its a Franchise Original Sin.
The main reason it went over far better compared to Season 2 both back then and nowadays is becau… morese almost all of the deaths served a purpose and was treated with the appropriate respect and gravity, with only Chuck being an exception and even then, he was a recently introduced minor character, had already served his important purpose to the story, and is given some condolences from Lee.
* Ben is the best handled determinant character because not only does he get some decent screentime and prominence after he determinant, but his canon death ultimately serves to give Kenny such a noteworthy sendoff; dropping him in Crawford means you miss out of both of their character developments and the final episode feels noticeably empty without him.
* Meanwhile, Duck and Larry are both mourned by not only their respective family members but the other characters as well despite their unpopularity amongst t… [view original content]
Comments
Yeah, poor Sarah.
But TT logic just doesn't fly. Like I'm to believe Javier doesn't carry a weapon besides that hammer, and no one else has anything, yet they all made it this far. They really think we are that gullible. smh
I honestly felt the exact opposite. The first half of season 2 was slow and boring. Just a way to make you sympathize with the Cabin Group and create this aura about Carver. The last 2 episodes of season 2 are the ones I enjoyed the most. It had the most drama and conflict, internally and externally, even though I was on Kenny's side the whole time.
But I agree, I was with Kenny through the whole time. I didn't steal from the Russian prick the first time through, but he still screwed us all over and got Luke killed in my playthrough. He deserved a bullet in a brain.
Yeah, I know. Sarah and Arvo at least had the excuse that they were under the protection of Carlos/Luke/Carver at Howe's Hardware and Buricko/Natasha at the Abandoned House with any extensive conflict and danger being kept to a minimum; the Garcia's on the other hand have been constantly on the move in their minivan (to steal a line from @firewallvolcano) acting like their on a camping trip, with Kate apparently keeping them on a careful regiment even with Javier being the "Good Cop". While I'm willing to suspend my disbelief in certain cases, I can't deny that this is especially weird considering how much trouble they've been in during one composite episode.
Wait, David is supposed to be the main villain? lol Could have fooled me. I agree, he just comes off as a major jerk and nothing else. It could be possible that TT just assumed since they introduced him, and how much of a jerk he is, that it would be the logical conclusion that he would become some sort of villain in the apocalypse. eye roll
100% agreed.
Which makes it all the more disappointing when they got demoted to extras and started dropping like flies--literally in Sarah("canonically") and Luke's cases.
Because he had more than one, apparently.
I have a feeling David is going to shut down once he finds about what happened to Mariana, Kate, and the people of Prescott (especially since they weren't his orders). I know a lot of people make comparisons of Tripp and Kenny, but David is giving me some serious Kenny vibes (especially with his loyalty to family).
Of course, I'm wary about this because the last time Kenny showed up everyone got side-lined including Clem. We don't need New Frontier to become Edgy Kenny 2.0 and Friends (ft. Javier and a Special Guest Appearance from Clementine)
Same here! Every episode is good, even though some are better then others for sure. Though my least favorite is actually from S1, The long road ahead. So its been awhile since ive been "disappointed" though I still found the episode enjoyable for sure.
Eh, I think my ranking would mostly be based on the character themself unless the gameplay is a pain in the ass, but this is the best I can come up with for both:
Lee>Shel>Clementine>Michonne(from what I've seen anyway)>Bonnie>Javier>Tavia>Russell>Vince>Wyatt
Funnily enough, Javier barely ranks above Taavia, while Clementine is a such a mixed bag that it's hard to rank her any lower.
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You're probably not the only one, but I think that ship has sailed for the most part.
I mean honestly, though, how would you respond if someone just showed up at your camp, took your gasoline, ate your food and looked to be bedding down for the night at your site? Probably wouldn't be too happy and probably would wanna kill em
Not in my heart
Yeah, whoops, sorry, typo lol.
But I wouldn't say that they become "extras". The different approaches that each group had really made the last few episodes the best.
But I mean that's kinda the telltale/TWD staple. Introduce characters, establish attachment, kill characters. Even in Season 1, literally only Kenny (though he was basically gone for end of ep5) and Clem made it all the way to the end of the season. Omid and Christa showed up late and they survived, but everyone else just "dropped like flies" and again, literally in Ben's case.
Kill yourself, you stupid fucking pedophile.
True, so its a Franchise Original Sin.
The main reason it went over far better compared to Season 2 both back then and nowadays is because almost all of the deaths served a purpose and was treated with the appropriate respect and gravity, with only Chuck being an exception and even then, he was a recently introduced minor character, had already served his important purpose to the story, and is given some condolences from Lee.
Season 2, on the other hand, made the already generally accepted as lesser writing worse by introducing characters only to be killed off with bare minimal characterization and development.
The few exceptions to the rule are controversial for exactly that reason, as Luke, Sarah, and (for some reason) Nick are given the most concentrated focus, characterization, and/or development of the Howe's Russian Ski Cabin Group after Jane.
What makes Sarah's case even more egregious confusing is the fact that the episode was almost certainly meant to be just as much her episode as it was Jane's(right down to the credits song being from her point of view), Carlos's existence is doubly pointless since we barely get much interaction with her or exposition on him, and that her "canon" death happens of the climax of the episode--a scene that barely had anything to do with her nor any extensive variation in her absence(right down to the camera angle when Clementine and Miek make the deck completely collapse)--when they really could've just waited a few more minutes until the very end of the episode(which literally has a shootout that cuts to black) so it'd be less moodwhiplashy, sloppy, and awkwardly timed.
And how about the fact that many of the latter two characters go virtually unmentioned after their deaths after they're listed as simple statistics during Luke's development, with Rebecca/Bonnie seemingly being more upset about Nick/Sarah's death than Luke and Sarah in particular is more or less forgotten by everyone except Jane of all people(who brings up her regardless of your choice as a projection of her sister despite seemingly referring to "her luck running out") after the baby is born, despite the fact that she was determinately Clementine's friend and Luke(with his Hero Complex) and Kenny(the Family Man) getting into an argument about the exact cause of her canonical death.
Rebecca can't be trusted. She's unstable emotionally because she's pregnant as shit. Jane had a good point.
No. If someone was just there by coincidence and hadn't ransacked the whole thing I'd be far more understandable. As long as they were willing to return the supplies and seems sorry.
If you ask me, Max wasn't really on Javier's case about the pudding, he was more concerned about the fact that he thought Javier was bullshitting. He thought Javier was the fall guy for whatever the rest of his group was planning. He'd probably be willing to look past the whole pudding thing, if he didn't think that Javier was lying and looking for the opportunity to stab him in the back.
And to be fair, he was half-right about Javier; he was technically lying-- he was with a bigger group, and they were indeed hiding nearby. But said group was his family, and represented no real threat to Max or his buddies.
"You ain't the loner type. I can tell. I know you got people!" - Max immediately has Javier pinned as being part of a group. And all of Javier's responses have him pussyfooting around the subject; "oh they're out scouting" or "oh they left". Naturally, he doesn't buy any of those explanations.
"You can't just take what you like. I don't roll over like that." - Like most survivors would be, he's quite defensive over his shit, and more importantly, people apparently attempting to steal his shit. And hell, he's practically a bandit himself when you think about it. He'd know better than to give the benefit of the doubt to any random survivor he comes across.
"I ain't gonna let it be like the last time some assholes rolled on us." - Implies that at some point, he ran into a similar situation, gave the wrong person the benefit of the doubt and it wound up biting him in the ass. Javier can seem as apologetic as possible, but for all Max knows, he's just trying to get him to let his guard down.
"You're starving. Who the fuck isn't? At the end of your rope, thought you'd hit paydirt. Honest mistake. But I got this sneaky fucking feeling that you're full of shit." - He considers that maybe Javier really is just a victim of circumstance, but he's more convinced that Javier's just trying to bullshit his way out of the situation. I doubt he was planning on killing Javier or even taking him prisoner. He probably wanted to tie him up and interrogate him or some shit, see if the story checks out. Of course, that changes after he comes back to find his buddy knocked out on the floor, which in his eyes, confirms his beliefs about not trusting Javier.
Like the episode slide says, this all stems from a misunderstanding that turns into a shitshow. Some of Max's people stick around near the junkyard, spot Javier's group, and open fire on the belief that they're the supposed 'thieves' from last night. That leads to Javier's group (or mainly Clementine) fighting back, which eventually leads to them pulling up to Prescott, looking for Javier, who they more or less consider to be the ringleader of this whole thing.
Now you might be thinking "why would they think Javier's behind all of this, that's ridiculous," but you gotta consider that this situation looks a lot different for Max and the other New Frontier people. From their perspective, this all starts with Javier showing up at that junkyard-- they find Javier, he ends up knocking out one of their buddies. They tie him up and try to drive him somewhere, only for him to escape and potentially kill the driver. Then another group of people stumble upon the same junkyard not even a day later, seemingly looking for something. For all intents and purposes, they have more than enough reason to believe that it isn't just coincidence that some random people happened to stumble upon the same junkyard a few hours after they found some guy apparently trying to steal stuff. It's not far-fetched to assume that this was Javier's group, coming back to try to nab whatever they could while they thought the NF were gone.
Back to the gates of Prescott and the standoff: even if Javier comes down, Clementine opens fire on them, instigating a shoot-out that ends with the New Frontier decimating Prescott in the chaos. Either way, Javier or someone with with him ends up opening fire on the New Frontier. So naturally, the NF also open fire, and things go about as well as you'd expect.
And after all of that, what happens next? Javier shows up at the front gate of the New Frontier. Max being all like "your people started this whole fucking thing in the first place"still makes sense here-- he's still under the mistaken belief that Javier was lying back at the junkyard. Combine that with Javier escaping from the truck driver, trying to go back to the junkyard, and Javier's people killing a bunch of his people, and it's understandable why he wouldn't really want to help you. From his perspective, Javier and his people are the ones that threw the first punch. Everything after that was simply Max and his group acting in retaliation/self-defense. Obviously, since we're playing as Javier, we're seeing this situation from a whole different perspective than Max is. From our perspectives, he's the asshole. From Max's perspective, we're the assholes. And neither side is in the mood to give the other the benefit of the doubt.
Like a lot of real life conflicts, this is just something that started over a misunderstanding, where neither side was willing to cut the other any slack.
David is all about family, even if he's a douche to Javier, he still loves him in his own twisted way. So yeah, I could see him retreating into himself after finding out what happened to his daughter, and that his men are responsible. Plus, based off of what we've already seen, I don't think many of the men and women respect him, or even accept him as their leader. I mean, they attacked Prescott without his go ahead. And that leads me to wonder, what happened to the bald chick Clem met in the trailer - I can't remember her name for anything. I had thought she was the leader? Was she not? Has David always been the leader? And if so, how was he able to keep all these people in line since it's been show that many of them aren't actually in line.
Though I would have to say, at this point, if we are being forced to play characters other than Clem, I would much rather play as David than Javier. At least from his military background, I can believe and understand how he's lasted this long.
Yes, this is what I can't swallow. Besides having to put down his dad and uncle(?) they have not faced any danger since fleeing the house. And I'm supposed to believe that they have been so lucky that they have been able to get fuel for the van, find food and other supplies, and not have to fight any other human off for them.
Meanwhile soon as Lee wok up from his car crash he had to fight off walker cop. Was chased by walkers through a clearing, happened to luck upon Clem's house, and still needed to beat her babysitter's head in. Not to mention help fight off walkers and move stalled vehicles out of the way. And that was at the onset of the outbreak. And lets not even get started on Clem.
At least point, I get that they are trying to lay the backstory and drawn people in to feel for Javier and co. but the formula just doesn't work, and I can't believe that he is some battle born survivor when nothing bad has happened to any of them until they stumbled upon that scrap yard. TT I'm giving you the side-eye. --_--
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Not you, just my reaction
Honestly, this seems like something that could use some canonical massaging. The advantage(and cheapness) of timeskips is to give the characters a degree of experience without having to show it. Maybe they could probably take advantage of the flashbacks by giving us insight on an actual previous hostile encounter, like maybe have Gabe and Mariana sitting things out due to the danger while Javier and maybe Kate do all they can to fight off the threat and just barely overcome it, despite not really being as bad as the New Frontier. That way, you'd have some context for Javier's combat skills, Kate's strategy, and Gabe and Mariana's respective obedience and fear would be contrasted by their modern day frustration and frivolity.
Yeah, we get the time jump. But they need to translate that into the now. Make us believe that they have made it this far because they are survivors. But they have yet to prove it. Case in point Javier forgetting his water bottle (seriously!!!), him throwing the gun down after beating up Lonnie (why would you do that?), allowing the kids to roam around the junkyard without doing a safety sweep first.
And they have to explain that weed. ROFL I mean, this is four years in, they just found the week like three days before. Anyone who had raided the place before them would have taken all of that for trading. And really, they found it in a baggie? If it was old weed it would be stale as all get out, and not very good to smoke. And who, trying to survive, has the time to grow, harvest, dry out, chop, then store it in baggies? It just doesn't float.
Gabe should have learned by now that you can't run off with walkers around. They (Javier and Kate) should have shut that nonsense down long before. Mariana is far to chill and relaxed for me to believe she's seen things, and the same for the rest of them. It's just waaaaaay to far fetched for me to believe any of it. I'm like.
I guess this is where our paths would diverge in the zombie apocalypse. If people showed up to my camp outta the blue and took my stuff, I wouldn't let them just walk away, they might have more people with them, armed people who would come back. I'm not saying that I would kill them, but I would definitely make sure that they knew not to come back, lest they want to have to deal with a fight and that I knew exactly who they were, where they were coming from and where they were going, then I'd send them on their way and make sure they made a good distance between me and them.
Ava.
No, from what I can tell, she was just a scout who got separated from her friends when the herd showed up.
Okay, cool. Not sure why I thought she might have had a higher roll in TNF. Oh well.
We can still have hope. If walkers exist so can mermen. lol
Well, that's part of the whole One Scene Wonder effect where you remember a character with a relative small role because their design, personality, or disproportionate impact left an impression on you.
So far, she's one for the few new characters whose often given a positive regard in this community by some people
, so its not usual that you'd see her as being bigger than she actually is/will be. This is mostly because Ava is one of the only female members of the New Frontier we've seen thus far and, on top of having such an unusual(if a bit Obviously Evil) design, she is also the friendliest member after Max, as her scene has her in an alliance of convenience with Clementine, who's perfectly capable of threatening and being rude towards her, and yet she's casually chatting with her and even showing hints of compassion and genuine concern for her and AJ just as much as for her own allies despite their supposed alignments in the present. Topping things off is the fact that, especially for those who reject her at the end of the flashback, she's apparently "very persuasive" and eventually succeeds in convincing Clementine to join, which suggests a quite few things and gives her this sense of allure and magnificence, something that wouldn't expect of her apparent role as a mere scout.
Oh, how times have changed.
Holy shit dude...Paragraphs are your friend!
Yeah, admittedly I should edit this now that it's been brought back to my intention.
man wtf this comment is older than Jebus wtf
I don't like the season 3 graphics either. I prefer season 1 & 2 graphics.
Definitely.
That's the point. You do like Javier, don't you?
Username checks out.
I agree. Those depressing dark colours and...depressed Jane.
Too bad the pacing was so shit that it just came off as boring/not-engaging then comically jarring to me.