Does Selina really care for Bruce this season or is she playing him?
I have been mulling this over awhile now and would like to hear some of y'alls opinions!
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I have been mulling this over awhile now and would like to hear some of y'alls opinions!
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Well, knowing Selina, probably both, but I would say that it's 75% caring and 25% playing
She seems to actually care, much more than she did about him in S01. She is the one who initiates and wants to work with him.
What I want is for her to really care for Bruce, but she had this sudden change of plans when she discovered she couldn't use the Laptop without Bruce's help, hell, she even "knew" he has some sort of super computer and as some user here in the forum noticed, she tried to use the laptop under the name of "PCat".
Also, if you blame her at the ending but you beg Harley not to do anything to her because you love her, she rolls her eyes and says "Oh please", even though scenes before she was acting all hungry for Bruce. Also she doesn't seem to have her apartment anymore, and if you don't warn Catwoman about Gordon she goes to your house because she doesn't have anywhere else to go (basically using you since you're her friend)
So far nothing shows she really loves us (Even though I want that to happen), and we should not forget how much of a bitch she was in Season 1 EPisode 5 saying that we were just a job and everything was a lie.
She's weird when it comes to romance with Bruce, I think It's the first time she's care about someone then herself and I think it makes her scared, I really don't know to be honest I would like to say she likes Bruce but she always kinda of a bitch to Bruce.
Care for is an extremely flexible term. I'm certain on some level she does care for Bruce. He at least generates more empathy than the countless victims of her employers who she supplies. To that end, does she have affection for Bruce or does she simply love the game? I associate it more like a cat toying with a mouse ( which is essentially what bats are -- winged rodents ). It's fun, exciting, and once the cat is bored only one of two things happen :: the mouse is released or the mouse is consumed.
Yeah I personally believe she does care for him, but can't shake the feeling that she's up to some shady shit lol. Oh well I'm all in with her at this point and I just hope I don't get burned:)
I've said this before and I still think it's true: the turn around from where she was in season one (where she says that she thinks relationships are their own kind of cage and the way she mocks Bruce if he says that he loves her at their last meeting) seems really dramatic; a bit extreme. We don't know what happened to her in the mean time, as I think a year has lapsed, but I am not ready to trust her. Does she care about Bruce? Maybe - she can be herself around, and have fun with, Bruce. They respect each other. I think if the question is whether she reformed enough to want to be with Bruce romantically, then the answer is probably no.
I couldn't tell honestly. Some of her facial expression were fishy to me. However I do think she does care about Bruce and I hope her character doesn't revert back to a season 1 version. I like it when characters change and progress. Keeps things fresh. In my case though she definitely cared about my Bruce more than he liked her. So there's always that to take in consideration. Sometimes its Bruce that can't be trusted.
I (want to) believe that the relationship which they started this episode is honest and Selina is not playing with Bruce’s feelings. Knowing his past, his personality and the fact that he lets get so close to him only really important people in his life (and romantically possibly only her), she has to be aware of how much this kind of game could possibly hurt him.
Probably the real scenario is not black or white. She probably hides something, especially regarding to her cooperation with Ridler, but I hope this revelation will not be so big that it will destroy the bond they started to build.
I believe Selina is a good person, but because of some events in her past she has built “strong walls” around herself to protect herself from getting emotionally hurt by people and created her alter ego and “career” which gives her an adrenaline rush which replaces need for real relationship in her life. I believe Bruce himself is referring to such scenario when he calls a relationship which he is offering - something meaningful what she really wants. If the way how she is acting around Bruce this season is genuine (and how she interacts with Bruce and talks with Alfred seem to be honest), we can already see the change in her.
On the other hand, as much as I am a BatCat fan in all the incarnations of Bat-verse, if all what she said and did in this episode in regard to their "relationship" is just an act on her end, Bruce, in my playtrough - even if he believes she is probably the only woman that can be a match for him, he will not be able to forgive her using him like that and he would probably never again risk getting emotionally involved with her. I really hope it will not come to that.
I also hope that Telltale is not planning to let her run off again by the end of this season, regardless of our choices. They would probably be able to come up with an excuse for it in each scenario, but I hope what we see in this season is a changed, matured Selina who knows what is she dealing with when she initiates a relationship with the Batman.
After how well the interactions between Bruce and Selina were handled in ep3 I am really excited to see how it will play out in next episodes and I hope Selina will play a major part in them. Fingers crossed for more high quality Bruce x Selina screen time in the future.
How fucking lovely would it be if we could get her to stick around Wayne manor at the end of the season, and then have her around for Season 3 (well, season 3 is in no way guaranteed, or even probably thought about, but seeing the quality of this season, I'd love a season 3).
That way she could have 2 starting points for season 3
I hope they get more screen time! I wonder how she is going to after bruce sacrificed himself for her.
That would be really awesome, I would pay double to get to see it happen.
Also, her being around at the end of S2 would be in line with the recurring theme of this season - Bruce can't really do everything only by himself and he needs allies - he just have to learn to see it. Especially now with Lucius gone and Alfred struggling with his trauma after events of S1 - Selina, Tiffany and possibly Gordon (hopefully we will have a chance to make things right with him), those people are the ones who have a potential to become much needed support for Bruce.
"Batman" has a potential to become multi seasonal series and I hope we will get season 3 in the future.
If done right, option for Selina being in Bruce's camp at the beginning of the next season could create a lot of new possibilities for plot direction, and could also prove that our choices really matters :-)
I think she said, "Oh please" because she knew Bruce had ratted her out to Harley, so hearing him say, "I love her" is really hypocritical of him.
Lmao ikr. Kind of a weird thing yo say right after you let her take the fall. I don't blame her reaction at all.
This is definitely the right answer, Selina has a hard time trusting people, so its only logical that she would be cold and distant after Bruce betrayed that trust, she says it herself if you invite her to the bat cave, she didnt care about anyone before, so if Bruce goes ahead and shows he doesnt really care in the end, it ends up being bad for him
That and how is that supposed to help convince them not to kill her? Its better to make a point that she's useful vs just 'I love her.' Their psychos, they don't care. So she was probably like 'Really...? That's all you got?'
She straight up says that both of their lives are in jeopardy and that she will stop playing games. She is being genuine at last and it is a breath of fresh air when it comes to her.
For me at least, the relationship with Selina in s1 was complicated, as it should be in the beginning of Batman's tale. She was hot and capable and my Bruce was immediately attracted to her and wanted to protect her, but he was constantly at odds with her questionable intentions and morals. I was so stressed out from everything else going on that by the time she played her little runaway game with the phalanx key, I was in no mood for games and told her she was nothing more than a thief. Very complicated because although i was pissed about her stealing as well as the Harvey situation, I still cared for her and knew that I wasn't being fair to her. I had enormous expectations for her that were unreasonable and that she hadn't agreed to. I was being the white knight to the max.
Now, I feel like both Selina and my Bruce are more confident in themselves and what their relationship is. Honestly Selina is right when she says that Batman and Catwoman are the perfect kind of crazy for each other. The games she plays are actually pretty fun, she plays the villain role for Batman occasionally but in a playful, inconsequential way. Often times she doesn't even expect to get away, it's just for the thrill. If you don't realize this then Catwoman seems like the most annoying, flip-flopping piece of work in the world. But once you do realize it the relationship with her becomes exhilarating, less about morals and perceived betrayals.
So now at this point after going through the ups and downs and the learning curve, I feel like I understand Selina and that she will always be a great ally and friend to Batman. And luckily due to my decisions, I now have a relationship with this crazy, amazing, stark contrast of a woman. They really are what the other needs and they both know it. Selina needs something meaningful with someone who cares about her and will help her hold herself to high standards. Bruce needs someone capable and intelligent who can keep his secret and be part of the mission as well as the family. Things are looking up and up.
However, this is in my playthrough where I warned her about Gordon, invited her to the Batcave, romanced her, and then took the blame for being the mole. If you mess up any one of those things then the relationship feels a lot differently and she may start to have some seriously conflicted feelings about you.
I definitely agree with "they are each other kind of crazy". Even if "my" Batman would not openly admit that and said to Catwoman that the "bad girl attitude is getting old", I think he meant it only partially. Sure, he wants her to give up the life of crime and work with him, but the "cat and mouse" game between them should continue in some way, even if they would end up in a long term relationship. Telltale catched their dynamic perfectly in this last episode.
I don't think Selina is really going to hold it against Bruce if he chooses to save several other people over her. She didn't if you saved Harvey. I think it'll be a moment where depending on your responses she'll forgive him. I don't know that she'll immediately jump into a relationship with him but I can't see her ending their friendship over it. She's not above reason and Bruce had a lot of other people to consider to include Tiffany in that decision. It really wasn't a 'save myself or save catwoman' thing. It was a 'save x many people or one.'
First off she does hold it against Bruce for saving Harvey in s1. She will still have sex with him but she makes it clear that it's a one night stand and that she doesn't want anything more. I think the decision to say that she is the mole with permanently affect the relationship dynamic with her, or at least have dire and lasting consequences. Remember the report of Freeze hitting the biochemical lab and everyone either dies or lost their limbs? Selina had her arm frozen and shes gonna lose it. I can't see a scenario where she says "Yeah I forgive you for selling me out to the villains and causing me to lose an arm"
I saved Harvey in a play through and I don't remember her holding it against him. I could be wrong I guess. But the most I remember was that she said they were even. There was nothing hostile about it. And after that everything proceeded like it would had you saved her. But I also didn't sleep with her, is it something she says afterward?
Yeah you have to sleep with her to see the difference. If you saved her then it's a pleasant morning and she asks you to make breakfast, but if you saved Harvey then you wake up and she reminds you that having sex didn't mean anything. But yeah not many differences otherwsie, per usual.
Yes, this is how @VengefulKenny described. I checked both scenarios and when Bruce saves Harvey and then spends night with Selina, I would say that she definitely wanted to let him now that she was disappointed with his actions during the debate. She said that she is surprised that he is still there in bed with her, then added that she perfectly well knows that this night meant nothing important because Bruce showed her how much he cares when he didn't help her during the debate. Then she tells him that if he wants he can eat the breakfast before leaving her apartment.
Well, I guess it would make sense that she'd be bitter. She is going to lose an arm and he did actually leave her to die. I guess I wasn't actually thinking of it like if I were in that situation. It would suck. But I also feel like Bruce didn't have any good options. He was in a sucky situation no matter how you look at it.
But I also didn't invite Selina to the batcave and I warned her about the GCPD and chased her off. Cuz I was like 'I don't need no one... I'm the Batman.' So it could be reasoned that Bruce didn't know they had her and thought it was perfect because he could warn her, like he did with the GCPD, to stay out of sight. But the plan didn't go as plan as he found out a bit to late that they had her. Do you think that'd be reason enough for her to forgive him or no?
lol. That's awkward. But she still saved his life so its not like she was horribly, horribly upset by it. And for the most part she doesn't act bitter, aside from that moment I guess. Which isn't that big of a deal. I mean, if you think about it, even if you saved her life she still considers Bruce a one night stand. She's just more open about it if you didn't save her.
She's not bitter. (hi, designer of the scene). In what she says, she mentions pretty explicitly that she is assuming, because you didn't save her, that this was a one night stand ~to you~. If you liked her enough to sleep with her but not to try and save her life, she understandably thinks you've used her for sex instead of that you care about her deeply. She doesn't particularly mind it, but she assumes it meant less to you than it did to her. She doesn't tell you her opinion on the evening. Not until Season 2.
So does she mention if that night meant anything "more" to her?
I like that the unresolved issues between them get discussed in season 2 and are clarified on. This one and the whole 'I love you' thing. And yeah, I don't see that moment as her holding his decision to save Harvey against Bruce. Even if she basically says go have some breakfast but lets not make more of this. I felt like I got more grief from her when I saved her life than I did when I saved Harvey's. But again I didn't have Bruce sleep with her. For one it didn't actually seem right to do that after you convince her to help you out and then let her get shot. lol, so I could totally see how she might feel that he was using her for sex.
@ManBat
"I didn’t give a damn about anyone else until I met you. I know you said you’d like to keep it friendly... without benefits... and, I’m okay with that. I am. But I still want you to know... you’ve left a mark on me. You’re the first person who’s made me feel like, I don’t know, like... I might actually be... good."
Am I crazy or did Selina say at one point that relationships were their own form of a cage? I also didn't like how she responded when Bruce says that he loves her during their last encounter. So what brought on such a huge change in attitude? What hopes does she have? I know, I know... just wait for episode four. Still. It's a huge change for Selina and I'm not sure I trust that it's real.
Probably something akin to that saying 'you don't realize what you have until it's gone.' She might have just legitimately missed Bruce and began realizing she actually did want more. Of course I partially agree with you because if what I'm saying was the case then its odd she didn't visit Gotham sooner.
She was saying debt is it's own kind of cage. This was after you have her back at the bar fight. It was basically Selina saying she hates owing people favors.
I interpreted that very differently, obviously.
Just wanted to say it's really cool that a Telltale writer chimes in to shed some light on characters. We don't get enough of this I think.
So I'm guessing the final scene with the Phalanx Key in S01E05, is Selina lying to herself about Bruce being just another job and her being just a thief, or at least trying to convince herself of it. Maybe she actually wants Bruce to disagree with what she's saying.
This is how I "read it". How I see her actions in the end of S1, is that she was not ready to commit to the relationship and afraid that she may fell for Bruce if she will stay around longer, so she tries to convince herself that it was nothing more than a one night stand and decides to leave Gotham to get away from him. She even says to him something like they need some distance between them. I guess in the long run it didn't work out and Bruce's words and actions had bigger impact on her than she expected. The effects of this we probably see now in their interactions in S2.
And I guess, the right thing for Bruce to do by the end of S1 is to see trough this "immoral thief" facade that she built for herself and was trying so hard to keep, let her know that he knows that there is more to her and that she is important to him, but give her space and not push her into any decisions that she is not ready for.
This is a really good way to look at it:) I think you hit everything right on the head, and you can tell Selina is upset when you don't flirt back etc. I think selina is starting to let her guard down when it comes to Bruce and I love it.
I mean... if someone told you they loved you after knowing you for a week and sleeping with you only once... do you really think you'd be like YAY YES I LOVE YOU TOO THIS IS DESTINY!
... generally not so much.
That type of "I love you" declaration tends to work best in games like Dragon Age Inquisition, which takes place over the course of multiple years. The characters have time to really get to know one another. Selina has a fondness for you, sure. But love beyond an infatuation just doesn't develop quite that quickly, and she knows it.
(Note: knowing someone for a bit before telling them you love them tends to work better in real life too
)
You get the better responses from her if you tell her she's wrong, yes. That's exactly how the scene plays.
Exactly! Like I don't understand why some people were so upset at the reaction she gives you if you told her that. It's great the amount of depth you gave these characters, I enjoy having these type of conversations.