I was going to post something like this, but didn't want to incur the wrath of the fans. I love him as a character but seriously, look at him. He's intentionally designed to be freaky, not sexy.
I'm too shallow to want this. John is just not very attractive. Neither was Oz. But Harvey, before the whole debate scene and potential faci… moreal scarring episode, was handsome. Meh. Plus, I didn't find John charming so much as just awkward. Elijah Wood is charming.
Agreed. I think maybe its the fact that his jaw doesn't do that odd thing where he turns his face and it suddenly disappears. lol. Have you noticed that in season 2? Also he looks younger. But I chalk that down to the stress of being the Batman. But I still like him in season 2. He's rockin' that hat.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Although, even in season one, I thought the artists gave Bruce a few too many facial lines for a 31 year old man.
The part of the game I really noticed Bruce was when he was in Selina's apartment, in the morning when he's in his undies... the view from the backside was particularly nice. Not that the front was shabby.
Agreed. I think maybe its the fact that his jaw doesn't do that odd thing where he turns his face and it suddenly disappears. lol. Have you … morenoticed that in season 2? Also he looks younger. But I chalk that down to the stress of being the Batman. But I still like him in season 2. He's rockin' that hat.
Definitely. ...Yeah, you know I miss his season 1 body. I'd say the closest you really get to it in season 2 is after the beating he gets from Bane and he goes to the batcave and takes off the top of his armor. I was all 'digging the scars and abs but holy hell please wash your face. It looks like you put lipstick on without looking at a mirror. Just ruin' the whole experience here.' lol.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Although, even in season one, I thought the artists gave Bruce a few too many facial lines for a … more31 year old man.
The part of the game I really noticed Bruce was when he was in Selina's apartment, in the morning when he's in his undies... the view from the backside was particularly nice. Not that the front was shabby.
Soooo... How many days has taken place between all 3 episodes so far? And why did Bruce think that was the best evil Bruce outfit possible? P.s does he ever change his clothes ??
Agreed. I think maybe its the fact that his jaw doesn't do that odd thing where he turns his face and it suddenly disappears. lol. Have you … morenoticed that in season 2? Also he looks younger. But I chalk that down to the stress of being the Batman. But I still like him in season 2. He's rockin' that hat.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Although, even in season one, I thought the artists gave Bruce a few too many facial lines for a … more31 year old man.
The part of the game I really noticed Bruce was when he was in Selina's apartment, in the morning when he's in his undies... the view from the backside was particularly nice. Not that the front was shabby.
That would be too weird, I don't get any gay vibes between them either. John is very eager to get close to Bruce for some reason.
A bit of a weirdo albeit an endearing one.
The tension between is not sexual in nature from what I've seen but maybe the writers had other ideas.
Definitely. ...Yeah, you know I miss his season 1 body. I'd say the closest you really get to it in season 2 is after the beating he gets fr… moreom Bane and he goes to the batcave and takes off the top of his armor. I was all 'digging the scars and abs but holy hell please wash your face. It looks like you put lipstick on without looking at a mirror. Just ruin' the whole experience here.' lol.
I kind of had mixed feelings about ogling a guy who was that beat up... but yeah, I'd like more naked Bruce. Maybe he can hook up again with Selina in his bedroom?
Definitely. ...Yeah, you know I miss his season 1 body. I'd say the closest you really get to it in season 2 is after the beating he gets fr… moreom Bane and he goes to the batcave and takes off the top of his armor. I was all 'digging the scars and abs but holy hell please wash your face. It looks like you put lipstick on without looking at a mirror. Just ruin' the whole experience here.' lol.
Well even in that situation he was a little beat up. I mean, not as much, but it seems like he only ever really strips when he's gotten hurt in these games. So lets hope that the next time they have him take his shirt off without having to due to new wounds. lol.
I kind of had mixed feelings about ogling a guy who was that beat up... but yeah, I'd like more naked Bruce. Maybe he can hook up again with Selina in his bedroom?
They certainly are. Even if I actually prefer arguments rather than superficial answers, I am not arguing they are valid given the question is ''how you would feel about X'' . It's more that I, personnaly, like it better when there's a true exchange going on. To put it simply, I see a forum as a place where people can ''discuss'', while some answers don't leave much place for discussion. People who start those thread might be interested in people's real feelings and perspectives on the matter. It can be frustrating when a question asked out of genuine curiosity and interest is turned into a joke.
I certainly see why John's appearance and your general feelings about the Joker might prevent you to go along with the romance if the option ever popped up, and I neither want or need to try to argue with your personal opinion about it as I think your feelings are completely understandable and, even if I couldn't understand, it would still not be my place to judge. I just think none of those two arguments explain why the option shouldn't be there though.
Is Bruce obligated to date someone who, in your eyes, is a 10 ?
I find John, charming, cute, and attractive. I don't think he is a ''handsome'' guy but he is the type of person who make it so that ''he is not a pretty boy'' is the last thing that crosses my mind. When I read the thread title I didn't even think about whether John was hot enough to date Bruce or not ( then someone brought it up )... It's just... not important to me at all. I am used to much more peculiar looking Joker anyway and still they get to kiss Harley. ...Maybe she sees something else in him ?
Bruce seems very uncomfortable around John sometimes, as you pointed out. Is he faking the cute moments tho ? Not nearly as much as he is faking with anyone else . I have picked up on his discomfort as well. I like to joke and say that John seems like he is talking about his mom when he brings up Dr. Leland.
Bruce doesn't exactly know how to respond to John, he doesn't even have the time to adapt and cover his awkwardness sometimes... But I truly believe that Bruce is uncomfortable around everybody ( he is not a very social guy and maybe because he is not genuine with many people... Alfred ? Selina ? maybe Tiffany but only recently ? and that's all, the rest of the time he has to be careful with everything he says ), it's just that John makes him so uncomfortable sometimes that he can't hide it at all. If anything, John just brings out the real Bruce rather than the masked one ( the playboy )... He brings out the awkward one.
Do you know that many actors are introverts ? I think it's similar to Bruce's situation. He has to appear a certain way with most people, pretty girls included, but deep down he is shy, introverted and awkward.
That's probably why Bruce is so awkward in the ''Be genuine'' option... In the ''Be genuine'' option, Bruce is... being genuine. Then again who wouldn't be awkward when someone suddenly asks you to roleplay as their dates. You can be sociable and still be taken aback by the sudden proposition.
Anyway...
John has a child-like personnality. I can see it. I think there's way more to John's character than his child-like personnality though and I can see how Bruce could, possibly, appreciate this ''more'' I am talking about. Maybe if John relates to Bruce then Bruce too can relate to John which is why Bruce sometimes show that he has a ''soft spot'' for John.
John is not the only guy prone to ''antisocial outbursts'', Bruce is too ( determinant )...
John is not the only guy trying to pass as dumber than he is, Bruce does too.
John is not the only guy struggling with a darker part of himself he talks about as if it was someone else, Bruce does too.
John is not the only one who has trouble in social setting and has very few ''real'' friends, Bruce does too.
You get the idea.
Plus, as I have already brought it up before : what Bruce can do as both Bruce and Batman is giving his weapons to John ( manipulation advices and batarangs ). Maybe while he is so ''uncomfortable''... he is being so ''genuine'' that he forgets to be coscious ? It doesn't make much sense when I put it like that.
I just think Bruce is somehow, being a bit more like himself in the pull her strings option than he has been with anybody else. When I say anybody else I mean Alfred and Selina included this time. Even Harvey who was quite familiar with the socially awkward Bruce probably didn't know much about the unapologetic manipulative Bruce. I wonder what Alfred think of Bruce monologue on human beings being social animals and how that's an information you should use while approaching each of them.
Bruce is not usually so talkative... it really seemed like he meant what he said. It seemed like he was talking about something he was proud of doing and had found some enjoyment in doing. A passion maybe ?
Still, it's not a wise thing to do. If you have to spend years ''pulling people strings'' then maybe you shouldn't...tell them ? He just outed himself to John. Once again, John brings out a part of Bruce he is supposed to hide.... a part he usually hides successfully.
I don't think I have to go on about how Batman giving John a batarang is the equivalent of Bruce giving the ''pull her strings'' advice... Does Batman normaly do that ? Teach people he just met how to use his weapon and let them keep it ? If Batman did it with Tiffany or...even Selina after that third episode I wouldn't be surprised, but Batman is supposed to know little to nothing about John... Yet the option is still there, and I don't think it's a mistake in the writing. In fact... it's very clever and more meaningful than it looks like.
John does what no one else can possibly do with Bruce. I am pretty sure he knows what he is doing too. Telltale just stayed true to canon in that regards. Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin, they know each other like no one else does, bring sides of each other no one else could, and whether it's Joker losing Batman or Batman losing Joker it's often very hard on them. It might be cheesy but they are what we typically describe as ''soulmates'' ( one whom you can be your true self with, intense and unexplanable feelings toward one another, finding each other in several lifetimes... ) , the writers make sure it's clear, not me. In DC House of Horror #1 - “Last Laugh” story they were even the same person.
So basically even though Bruce is indeed not the type of guy to pinky swear or roleplay in public and even if I can see him cringe when I play, I don't think it would prevent him to develop feelings at all...because he is weird himself.
He is already acting biased. Moreover, Batman is not used to dating ''ordinary'' people he would feel ''comfortable'' with and have ''an healthy and nice relationship with''. He feels deeply attached to people he can relate to, because he doesn't have much real friends ( wait a minute... John does too ) and we have the option to have him say the cheesiest stuff to Selina in results ( like John does with Harley, Batman and Bruce... ) . He has a ''kind of crazy'' from what I heard...and so does John.
I am well aware that a part of what I said is optional... I am just saying how a Bruce romance would make sense for some people, not necessarily for you because I suppose we made different choices. Your interpretation of Bruce might very well be different. We are talking about an ''optional'' romance after all. It is here for those who want it...those who don't should definitly have the choice to just refuse and move on.
Superficial answers are as valid as any.
For me, the thought of John and Bruce hooking up is cringe-worthy. But frankly, so is what you've … moreshown.
Don't get me wrong, you have good points and I get what your saying. However, Joker has always been creepy to me from telltales version to comics or movies and I'll still shudder and gag at the idea of romancing him.
If you want a reason that's less superficial I'd say based on the fact that John acts like a man-child that it shouldn't happen. Bruce seems a tad-bit too mature for John. Even when he's running around in a costume.
This version of Joker acts like a kid and Bruce a grown man. It'd be weird. And anytime Bruce does indulge in Jokers childish antics, like the high five or the pinky swear, it doesn't appear genuine. Not to me, anyways. It looks very fake, as if he's doing it just to get closer to the pact. Of course, not everyone is going to see it the way I see it. But I don't even thi… [view original content]
Yeah, my Bruce isn't self-conscious or shy. But I never thought of it as being the case. Like it never occurred to me is what I mean. But from your perspective, and having it brought to my attention, yes I could see how it would work. It's definitely an interesting way to see things.
I still don't want the option but it's not something that would keep me from playing the game.
Superficial answers are as valid as any.
They certainly are. Even if I actually prefer arguments rather than superficial answers, I … moream not arguing they are valid given the question is ''how you would feel about X'' . It's more that I, personnaly, like it better when there's a true exchange going on. To put it simply, I see a forum as a place where people can ''discuss'', while some answers don't leave much place for discussion. People who start those thread might be interested in people's real feelings and perspectives on the matter. It can be frustrating when a question asked out of genuine curiosity and interest is turned into a joke.
I certainly see why John's appearance and your general feelings about the Joker might prevent you to go along with the romance if the option ever popped up, and I neither want or need to try to argue with your personal opinion about it as I think your feelings are completely understandable and, eve… [view original content]
I agree with you, GamerLady, about John's child-like personality. Harley says he's a "growing boy" and at one point puts him in time out. Do you do that with adults? I don't think so.
Superficial answers are as valid as any.
For me, the thought of John and Bruce hooking up is cringe-worthy. But frankly, so is what you've … moreshown.
Don't get me wrong, you have good points and I get what your saying. However, Joker has always been creepy to me from telltales version to comics or movies and I'll still shudder and gag at the idea of romancing him.
If you want a reason that's less superficial I'd say based on the fact that John acts like a man-child that it shouldn't happen. Bruce seems a tad-bit too mature for John. Even when he's running around in a costume.
This version of Joker acts like a kid and Bruce a grown man. It'd be weird. And anytime Bruce does indulge in Jokers childish antics, like the high five or the pinky swear, it doesn't appear genuine. Not to me, anyways. It looks very fake, as if he's doing it just to get closer to the pact. Of course, not everyone is going to see it the way I see it. But I don't even thi… [view original content]
Right? And I honestly love John, but its like he's the kid brother of Bruce. I just can't see that romantic chemistry that other's seem to be seeing. I see that he definitely looks up to Bruce and admires Bruce, if you help him high-jack the car when they leave the bar he'll even call Bruce his hero. But again, I see it more as John looking up to a big-brother figure not romance.
But not everyone will see it that way. It might be the responses I give vs theirs, but they'll have their own ideas of what Bruce's reactions mean.
I agree with you, GamerLady, about John's child-like personality. Harley says he's a "growing boy" and at one point puts him in time out. Do you do that with adults? I don't think so.
I've always said john is like that little bro who just wants to be around his older brother lol. Tbh I never thought of any romance between them untill I saw this thread.
Right? And I honestly love John, but its like he's the kid brother of Bruce. I just can't see that romantic chemistry that other's seem to b… moree seeing. I see that he definitely looks up to Bruce and admires Bruce, if you help him high-jack the car when they leave the bar he'll even call Bruce his hero. But again, I see it more as John looking up to a big-brother figure not romance.
But not everyone will see it that way. It might be the responses I give vs theirs, but they'll have their own ideas of what Bruce's reactions mean.
Yeah. And there were even times when I felt like Bruce was like a father-figure and not just the brother-figure. I laughed so hard when at Lucius' funeral you have the option to make John sit down when he's shhhing some guy and Bruce says something like 'be quiet or I'll drag you out of here and teach you some respect.' Like who does that to a grown man? lol. Not unless you really saw them as an adolescent. It was like a father having to deal with his out-of-control son.
I've always said john is like that little bro who just wants to be around his older brother lol. Tbh I never thought of any romance between them untill I saw this thread.
I've always said john is like that little bro who just wants to be around his older brother lol. Tbh I never thought of any romance between them untill I saw this thread.
Yeah. And there were even times when I felt like Bruce was like a father-figure and not just the brother-figure. I laughed so hard when at L… moreucius' funeral you have the option to make John sit down when he's shhhing some guy and Bruce says something like 'be quiet or I'll drag you out of here and teach you some respect.' Like who does that to a grown man? lol. Not unless you really saw them as an adolescent. It was like a father having to deal with his out-of-control son.
Of course its more likely that the writers meant it as Bruce being violent. I don't know. It didn't really come off that way to me. All I know is that it made me laugh and made me reminisce on my own childhood. I was quite the little hellion and me and my dad were always going at it. Bruce's reaction seemed about right in that regard but then your suggestion is likely more plausible. It just seems an odd choice of words in that case.
But then John has also commented that Bruce has a 'stern father voice' so what I said could also be possible. Or a mixture of both. Maybe John's character sees it how I see it and Bruce really is just meaning to be violent.
I don't know many sons who ramble on about their father's being handsome
"Bruce is strong, smart and handsome! Super handsome, it's nuts, you guys... where was I going with this?"
Anyway I have no problem with you seeing the relationship that way. Like I said in the main post, I don't personally ship it but I think it should be an option for those who want it.
Of course its more likely that the writers meant it as Bruce being violent. I don't know. It didn't really come off that way to me. All I kn… moreow is that it made me laugh and made me reminisce on my own childhood. I was quite the little hellion and me and my dad were always going at it. Bruce's reaction seemed about right in that regard but then your suggestion is likely more plausible. It just seems an odd choice of words in that case.
But then John has also commented that Bruce has a 'stern father voice' so what I said could also be possible. Or a mixture of both. Maybe John's character sees it how I see it and Bruce really is just meaning to be violent.
I don't mind it as an option for people who ship BatJoke, but I don't want it forced on us. I marginally like Selina, but understand why people might not ship them. I kind of feel as if that ship is being forced regardless of how we want Bruce to behave or how we left things in season one. That bothers me a little.
That's true, I did forget about John commenting that Bruce was handsome. However I don't think the father-figure/brother-figure is the whole dynamic. I think there are definitely aspects of that. But I don't see that moment of him saying Bruce is handsome as anything romantic. I just see it as John having a big mouth and acknowledging that Bruce is in fact handsome and it's another thing for him to admire. It's basically hero-worship.
I don't know many sons who ramble on about their father's being handsome
"Bruce is strong, smart and handsome! Super handsome, it's nuts… more, you guys... where was I going with this?"
Anyway I have no problem with you seeing the relationship that way. Like I said in the main post, I don't personally ship it but I think it should be an option for those who want it.
That's my main concern with making John an option. While I think telltale did as good a job as they could manage, I don't really think they could keep it from affecting the writing without making it overly complicated for themselves. Selina and Bruce being the prime example.
I also don't feel like it would even add much to the story. Regardless if your romancing John or not his decline into the Joker is still gonna be devastating.
I don't mind it as an option for people who ship BatJoke, but I don't want it forced on us. I marginally like Selina, but understand why peo… moreple might not ship them. I kind of feel as if that ship is being forced regardless of how we want Bruce to behave or how we left things in season one. That bothers me a little.
Yeah. I agree, I can't see them doing it.
We are already so far along and still so much to unfold. It'd be too much of detour in the wrong direction to even bother with. Not to mention they already have a romance they've put focus on and after the end of episode 3, and depending on if you've partnered with Selina, it's clear she's going to be involved in episode 4 and maybe even 5. Then there's Harley who has had or can have flirtations with Bruce, I don't see that going anywhere but if it does then that's two options already. So there's already a good chunk of the plot being used on romance, to add anymore would detract too much from the story. In which case its definitely not worth it.
Why would turning Bats and Joker gay/bi destroy them? Are you suggesting that gay ppl are worse then straights? Or that they are so much different than straights? It's just sexual preference. If there was a choice in game to romance John you could either chose to do so or not. Your choice, you could have straight bats in your playthrough and I could have gay bats, everyone would be happy. Aand of course ppl would be outraged if you turn gay characters straight because gay ppl are an underrepresented minority in media. Same shit would happen if you turn originally black character white, because black ppl are also an underrepresented minority in media.
Something new and original like destroying 2 straight characters to turn them into gay/bisexual? Imagine the scandal if they were already gay and Teltalle turned them straight.
Why would turning Bats and Joker gay/bi destroy them? Are you suggesting that gay ppl are worse then straights? Or that they are so much dif… moreferent than straights? It's just sexual preference. If there was a choice in game to romance John you could either chose to do so or not. Your choice, you could have straight bats in your playthrough and I could have gay bats, everyone would be happy. Aand of course ppl would be outraged if you turn gay characters straight because gay ppl are an underrepresented minority in media. Same shit would happen if you turn originally black character white, because black ppl are also an underrepresented minority in media.
I believe if turning a gay character straight is an outrage then so is turning a straight character gay. Same for the race thing. And I don't feel like anyone is being underrepresented, not recently. There's several shows and movies that have a black cast and several shows and movies that have gay characters. If you want to go in whose more underrepresented, I'd say its probably Mexican's and asexual's.
And here's the thing, straight males come in all races. They are probably the majority of gamer's, so of course gaming companies are going to cater to that. It would sell more copies. That doesn't mean they are intentionally under-representing someone.
Why would turning Bats and Joker gay/bi destroy them? Are you suggesting that gay ppl are worse then straights? Or that they are so much dif… moreferent than straights? It's just sexual preference. If there was a choice in game to romance John you could either chose to do so or not. Your choice, you could have straight bats in your playthrough and I could have gay bats, everyone would be happy. Aand of course ppl would be outraged if you turn gay characters straight because gay ppl are an underrepresented minority in media. Same shit would happen if you turn originally black character white, because black ppl are also an underrepresented minority in media.
Absolutely agree. It's great to see more minorities (ethnic and sexual) representation in games. By all means Telltale should be free to introduce LGBT characters, but that does not mean they should turn straight heroes into gays for whatever reason.
Bruce is into chicks, I thought the "with me" answers to John episode 2 was more of a joke than anything else. Maybe the writers can clarify what they really meant.
This is how it appeared to me at least. I never got any serious gay vibe from Bruce-John interactions thus far. John is looking for people to "shape" him, to take inspiration from. Bruce is hardly the worst character you could draw from due to its success and his confidence.
I suppose that's why women like him, being good looking is not enough, he has confidence and charisma on top of that.
I believe if turning a gay character straight is an outrage then so is turning a straight character gay. Same for the race thing. And I don'… moret feel like anyone is being underrepresented, not recently. There's several shows and movies that have a black cast and several shows and movies that have gay characters. If you want to go in whose more underrepresented, I'd say its probably Mexican's and asexual's.
And here's the thing, straight males come in all races. They are probably the majority of gamer's, so of course gaming companies are going to cater to that. It would sell more copies. That doesn't mean they are intentionally under-representing someone.
I thought it was more of the Bruce who thinks so highly of himself that he had to make sure John wasn't talking about him. lol. He even looks relieved and smiles after John says 'no, I hope we can still be friends.'
Absolutely agree. It's great to see more minorities (ethnic and sexual) representation in games. By all means Telltale should be free to int… moreroduce LGBT characters, but that does not mean they should turn straight heroes into gays for whatever reason.
Bruce is into chicks, I thought the "with me" answers to John episode 2 was more of a joke than anything else. Maybe the writers can clarify what they really meant.
This is how it appeared to me at least. I never got any serious gay vibe from Bruce-John interactions thus far. John is looking for people to "shape" him, to take inspiration from. Bruce is hardly the worst character you could draw from due to its success and his confidence.
I suppose that's why women like him, being good looking is not enough, he has confidence and charisma on top of that.
the Bruce who thinks so highly of himself that he had to make sure John wasn't talking about him
It seems quite paradoxal don't you think ?
If Bruce thought highly of himself he would enjoy to have charmed somebody once again, it doesn't quite matter if he didn't love them back. It's something he would appreciate.
He wouldn't be relieved but ashamed earing the answer since he would have went through the embarassment of expressing his assumption to get a negative answer. It's a strike to the ego.
I agree he seemed relieved though. He probably was relieved because he didn't want to have to deal with the alternative.
He was already using John, if John is in love with him the whole thing gets complicated. He knows John is sensitive and impredictable, turning him down probably wouldn't be the best move if he wants to get in the pact, even if he doesn't feel the same way. He might have to play along just like he can potentially play along with Harley's flirting.
He might not have cared about John right away like he does in episode 3, but just like he looks pretty saddened when John says ''Bruce is my best friend he could never betray me'' in the beginning of third episode, I don't think he would want to play with John's feelings that way.
I thought it was more of the Bruce who thinks so highly of himself that he had to make sure John wasn't talking about him. lol. He even looks relieved and smiles after John says 'no, I hope we can still be friends.'
I was kidding. Mostly when I put lol it means I'm joking around. (Not like I'm funny or anything, I tend to make myself laugh at the stupidest things.) I don't actually think Bruce said it because he thinks so highly of himself. I mean, he did look relieved and all but the question came off like Bruce was legitimately curious. He wasn't judgmental and didn't overreact, it really just seemed like he wanted to clear things up to me.
the Bruce who thinks so highly of himself that he had to make sure John wasn't talking about him
It seems quite paradoxal don't you … morethink ?
If Bruce thought highly of himself he would enjoy to have charmed somebody once again, it doesn't quite matter if he didn't love them back. It's something he would appreciate.
He wouldn't be relieved but ashamed earing the answer since he would have went through the embarassment of expressing his assumption to get a negative answer. It's a strike to the ego.
I agree he seemed relieved though. He probably was relieved because he didn't want to have to deal with the alternative.
* He was already using John, if John is in love with him the whole thing gets complicated. He knows John is sensitive and impredictable, turning him down probably wouldn't be the best move if he wants to get in the pact, even if he doesn't feel the same way. He might have to play along just like he can potentially… [view original content]
I share Gamerlady's opinion on this. The secret to equality is to treat people, well, equally. If something is deemed right for the individuals of a sexuality and deemed wrong for others, the risk of falling in a vicious circle where the ever-changing disadvantaged ones will remain angry and hateful at the others is high. If it's outrageous to change a gay characters sexuality, then it should be outrageous to change a straight character's sexuality too, if it's okay to change a straight characters sexuality, then it should be okay to change a gay character's sexuality too.
While I think the ''with me'' option can be a funny one to pick as a player, I don't think it was taken has a Joke by Bruce or John. Bruce seriously thought John could be in love with him... John has been emphisizing on how much he liked Bruce since episode 4 of the first season. He never once mentionned a girl he found that attractive before. It was all ''Bruce, you and I we are a thread in the same stitch'', '' I knew I liked you'', ''I missed your fire''. He was nervous about his every move around Bruce, thinking highly of Bruce's opinion and actually talking to his friends about how ''cool'' Bruce his and how much they should meet him... He was talking about Bruce and Bruce only. Then he had that one moment when he called Tiffanny pretty just to compliment Lucius. Clearly, he acted like someone who has a crush on somebody.
That John loved him was a reasonable thing to assume back then.
John himself had to think about it for a moment before giving an answer. He wasn't even sure himself before Bruce asked.
In the player's space someone who I think is Telltale's director said ''I am not sure if I believe that'' once John said ''no''.
Several members of Telltale's staff seem to be fond of Batjokes to a certain extent. You have Anthony Ingruber talking about an infatuation and borderline love felt by John toward Bruce, but other members of the staff too or at least those who express how much they like the fan arts that potray Bruce and John in a romantic way ( They like, reblog and comment on many of them ). Three of the staff members even went as far as reading Bruce/John fanfictions on AO3. They were so impressed by the writers work that they commented that they thought it was one of the writers working on the game who did it. They encouraged her to apply and they said they would put in good words for her.
I assume it was because the writer seemed to have a great understanding of the mechanics of their game ( as they wrote it on their comments ) but the fact the characters were actually faithful to the original content character's personnality probably played a part too.
In fact, John was asking for Bruce advices on how to get Harley to like him ( the fanfiction was written before episode 3 ). Bruce ended up teaching him how to dance and how to kiss. The dialogues...It wasn't difficult to imagine Bruce or John telling them either. It was also said that John had an idea of himself based on what other people's told him he should be rather than what he truly feels. It seems incredibly faithful to the character too since he is the one asking everyone he cares about what is right, what is wrong, how should he flirt. He repeats things like Dr leland said it's not appropriate to say that, and ''since we are friends we should do X'' as if he is basing his friendship from...whatever he has observed before. It doesn't always fit what he truly feels like since he didn't find his ''true self'' yet.
That's why I don't think that the Telltale director was joking when he said in the player's space that he wasn't sure if we could believe what John said when he said ''no''. John isn't exactly sure of who he is and what his relationships should look like, he looks up to others and try to see what he likes and what he dislikes from there. He is still a growing boy. I am not trying he didn't believe his own ''no'', I am not sure however that his actions reflects that ''no'', and that he is fully aware of everything he feels.
Lastly, even though I guess that Bruce is straight too based on what Harvey said in the previous season, I think
he is also a man who spend his time acting the way people expect him to act. He is trying to fit a certain image people have of him to cover for Batman ( so as ladies man who is not exactly the smartest ), a bit like John. To think he could be bisexual in one version wouldn't be crazy to me. He would go against people's expectation, both in Gotham and in real life. What do we know about who Bruce Wayne really is ? It's basically what this season is about, he is supposed to be confused about what he thinks about himself, what type of people he likes and what he is capable of doing. It would be fitting for him to question his sexuality at this moment too.
So it just makes perfect sense when we think about it.
Absolutely agree. It's great to see more minorities (ethnic and sexual) representation in games. By all means Telltale should be free to int… moreroduce LGBT characters, but that does not mean they should turn straight heroes into gays for whatever reason.
Bruce is into chicks, I thought the "with me" answers to John episode 2 was more of a joke than anything else. Maybe the writers can clarify what they really meant.
This is how it appeared to me at least. I never got any serious gay vibe from Bruce-John interactions thus far. John is looking for people to "shape" him, to take inspiration from. Bruce is hardly the worst character you could draw from due to its success and his confidence.
I suppose that's why women like him, being good looking is not enough, he has confidence and charisma on top of that.
I think you have hit on an interesting point re who is the target audience. Comic books were, at one point, sort of the consumed by teenage boys, boys who for the most part were not (for lack of a better word) popular or socially successful. It was sort of for outcasts and outsiders... and the depictions of women (and to some extent the men) I think reflect that - the way they are athletic versions of Barbie dolls and always with the cleavage revealing outfits. Through the comics they could fantasize about rescuing the world and looking like the football player that they weren't and dating the cheerleader who (probably) would never have considered dating them.
I believe if turning a gay character straight is an outrage then so is turning a straight character gay. Same for the race thing. And I don'… moret feel like anyone is being underrepresented, not recently. There's several shows and movies that have a black cast and several shows and movies that have gay characters. If you want to go in whose more underrepresented, I'd say its probably Mexican's and asexual's.
And here's the thing, straight males come in all races. They are probably the majority of gamer's, so of course gaming companies are going to cater to that. It would sell more copies. That doesn't mean they are intentionally under-representing someone.
Well, with all your posts, you have definitely swayed me into seeing how John is possibly bi-sexual. And while I still believe he's head-over-heels for Harley I can say that, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it is later revealed that he also has feelings for Bruce.
However, I don't imagine that those feelings will be shared. I'm basing this opinion on what I've seen from Bruce and it appears to me that he's 100% straight. Just from how uncomfortable he can get around John and so forth, to include his reactions towards Selina. Some of which aren't optional.
For example: In season 1, after the bar fight, Bruce has the option to kiss Selina or to back away. But regardless of your choice he will still give off the impression that he wanted to kiss her. And if you pulled away the codex will say something like 'I need to keep focus and not let my feelings get in the way.' This interaction was in private, so he wasn't acting the part that people expect him to.
Then, as said before, you can ask John if he's in love with Bruce. John will deny it and Bruce will look relieved and even smile. This interaction was also in private.
Then there are versions of Bruce that don't care about public opinion. He can even state that in season 1. And then the fact that he can pinky-swear with John in public, despite how ridiculous it seems for two grown men, and take a selfie with him at a funeral of all places. These aren't really the actions of a man who cares too much of what people think. Although he does look amused/embarrassed after being caught with the pinky-swear and does seem like he felt a bit guilty about the selfie when Tiffany caught him, but he doesn't seem as uncomfortable as he does when John comments on how handsome he is. Not to mention being perceived as a player towards women doesn't really do anything to help maintain his cover as Batman. Acting as a criminal does, but not who he sleeps with. Because he could just as easily be a player towards men.
I share Gamerlady's opinion on this. The secret to equality is to treat people, well, equally. If something is deemed right for the individu… moreals of a sexuality and deemed wrong for others, the risk of falling in a vicious circle where the ever-changing disadvantaged ones will remain angry and hateful at the others is high. If it's outrageous to change a gay characters sexuality, then it should be outrageous to change a straight character's sexuality too, if it's okay to change a straight characters sexuality, then it should be okay to change a gay character's sexuality too.
While I think the ''with me'' option can be a funny one to pick as a player, I don't think it was taken has a Joke by Bruce or John. Bruce seriously thought John could be in love with him... John has been emphisizing on how much he liked Bruce since episode 4 of the first season. He never once mentionned a girl he found that attractive before. It was all ''Bruce, you and… [view original content]
I agree with everything you said her. and like you said, it seems that no matter the choice, Bruce is straight up just attracted to Selina. His facial reactions.. How he acts around her. Brucie boy Defitnately has a crush.
Well, with all your posts, you have definitely swayed me into seeing how John is possibly bi-sexual. And while I still believe he's head-ove… morer-heels for Harley I can say that, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it is later revealed that he also has feelings for Bruce.
However, I don't imagine that those feelings will be shared. I'm basing this opinion on what I've seen from Bruce and it appears to me that he's 100% straight. Just from how uncomfortable he can get around John and so forth, to include his reactions towards Selina. Some of which aren't optional.
For example: In season 1, after the bar fight, Bruce has the option to kiss Selina or to back away. But regardless of your choice he will still give off the impression that he wanted to kiss her. And if you pulled away the codex will say something like 'I need to keep focus and not let my feelings get in the way.' This interaction was in private, so he wasn't acting the part that… [view original content]
I agree. Even if you make her your enemy in season 1 and 2 it was established that Bruce had an attraction to her. I think it was revealed as early as episode 2 in season 1. That's not to say that he can't dislike or even hate her, but he was definitely attracted to her physically at some point and that much is permanent.
I agree with everything you said her. and like you said, it seems that no matter the choice, Bruce is straight up just attracted to Selina. His facial reactions.. How he acts around her. Brucie boy Defitnately has a crush.
Comments
I was going to post something like this, but didn't want to incur the wrath of the fans. I love him as a character but seriously, look at him. He's intentionally designed to be freaky, not sexy.
Yeah, the weird jawline and super pasty skin just don't do much for me. Plus his smile can sometimes be really creepy, and his laugh always is.
Agreed. I think maybe its the fact that his jaw doesn't do that odd thing where he turns his face and it suddenly disappears. lol. Have you noticed that in season 2? Also he looks younger. But I chalk that down to the stress of being the Batman. But I still like him in season 2. He's rockin' that hat.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Although, even in season one, I thought the artists gave Bruce a few too many facial lines for a 31 year old man.
The part of the game I really noticed Bruce was when he was in Selina's apartment, in the morning when he's in his undies... the view from the backside was particularly nice. Not that the front was shabby.
Definitely. ...Yeah, you know I miss his season 1 body. I'd say the closest you really get to it in season 2 is after the beating he gets from Bane and he goes to the batcave and takes off the top of his armor. I was all 'digging the scars and abs but holy hell please wash your face. It looks like you put lipstick on without looking at a mirror. Just ruin' the whole experience here.' lol.
Soooo... How many days has taken place between all 3 episodes so far? And why did Bruce think that was the best evil Bruce outfit possible? P.s does he ever change his clothes ??
Bruce is just blessed with dashing good looks. I guess you can say he has the whole "package"
.
This.
He had a rough night lol. He sure does have a shit ton of scars tho, anyone know how long he's been batman in this universe ??
I kind of had mixed feelings about ogling a guy who was that beat up... but yeah, I'd like more naked Bruce. Maybe he can hook up again with Selina in his bedroom?
Well even in that situation he was a little beat up. I mean, not as much, but it seems like he only ever really strips when he's gotten hurt in these games. So lets hope that the next time they have him take his shirt off without having to due to new wounds. lol.
They certainly are. Even if I actually prefer arguments rather than superficial answers, I am not arguing they are valid given the question is ''how you would feel about X'' . It's more that I, personnaly, like it better when there's a true exchange going on. To put it simply, I see a forum as a place where people can ''discuss'', while some answers don't leave much place for discussion. People who start those thread might be interested in people's real feelings and perspectives on the matter. It can be frustrating when a question asked out of genuine curiosity and interest is turned into a joke.
I certainly see why John's appearance and your general feelings about the Joker might prevent you to go along with the romance if the option ever popped up, and I neither want or need to try to argue with your personal opinion about it as I think your feelings are completely understandable and, even if I couldn't understand, it would still not be my place to judge. I just think none of those two arguments explain why the option shouldn't be there though.
Is Bruce obligated to date someone who, in your eyes, is a 10 ?
I find John, charming, cute, and attractive. I don't think he is a ''handsome'' guy but he is the type of person who make it so that ''he is not a pretty boy'' is the last thing that crosses my mind. When I read the thread title I didn't even think about whether John was hot enough to date Bruce or not ( then someone brought it up )... It's just... not important to me at all. I am used to much more peculiar looking Joker anyway and still they get to kiss Harley. ...Maybe she sees something else in him ?
Bruce seems very uncomfortable around John sometimes, as you pointed out. Is he faking the cute moments tho ? Not nearly as much as he is faking with anyone else . I have picked up on his discomfort as well. I like to joke and say that John seems like he is talking about his mom when he brings up Dr. Leland.
Bruce doesn't exactly know how to respond to John, he doesn't even have the time to adapt and cover his awkwardness sometimes... But I truly believe that Bruce is uncomfortable around everybody ( he is not a very social guy and maybe because he is not genuine with many people... Alfred ? Selina ? maybe Tiffany but only recently ? and that's all, the rest of the time he has to be careful with everything he says ), it's just that John makes him so uncomfortable sometimes that he can't hide it at all. If anything, John just brings out the real Bruce rather than the masked one ( the playboy )... He brings out the awkward one.
Do you know that many actors are introverts ? I think it's similar to Bruce's situation. He has to appear a certain way with most people, pretty girls included, but deep down he is shy, introverted and awkward.
That's probably why Bruce is so awkward in the ''Be genuine'' option... In the ''Be genuine'' option, Bruce is... being genuine. Then again who wouldn't be awkward when someone suddenly asks you to roleplay as their dates. You can be sociable and still be taken aback by the sudden proposition.
Anyway...
John has a child-like personnality. I can see it. I think there's way more to John's character than his child-like personnality though and I can see how Bruce could, possibly, appreciate this ''more'' I am talking about. Maybe if John relates to Bruce then Bruce too can relate to John which is why Bruce sometimes show that he has a ''soft spot'' for John.
John is not the only guy prone to ''antisocial outbursts'', Bruce is too ( determinant )...
John is not the only guy trying to pass as dumber than he is, Bruce does too.
John is not the only guy struggling with a darker part of himself he talks about as if it was someone else, Bruce does too.
John is not the only one who has trouble in social setting and has very few ''real'' friends, Bruce does too.
You get the idea.
Plus, as I have already brought it up before : what Bruce can do as both Bruce and Batman is giving his weapons to John ( manipulation advices and batarangs ). Maybe while he is so ''uncomfortable''... he is being so ''genuine'' that he forgets to be coscious ? It doesn't make much sense when I put it like that.
I just think Bruce is somehow, being a bit more like himself in the pull her strings option than he has been with anybody else. When I say anybody else I mean Alfred and Selina included this time. Even Harvey who was quite familiar with the socially awkward Bruce probably didn't know much about the unapologetic manipulative Bruce. I wonder what Alfred think of Bruce monologue on human beings being social animals and how that's an information you should use while approaching each of them.
Bruce is not usually so talkative... it really seemed like he meant what he said. It seemed like he was talking about something he was proud of doing and had found some enjoyment in doing. A passion maybe ?
Still, it's not a wise thing to do. If you have to spend years ''pulling people strings'' then maybe you shouldn't...tell them ? He just outed himself to John. Once again, John brings out a part of Bruce he is supposed to hide.... a part he usually hides successfully.
I don't think I have to go on about how Batman giving John a batarang is the equivalent of Bruce giving the ''pull her strings'' advice... Does Batman normaly do that ? Teach people he just met how to use his weapon and let them keep it ? If Batman did it with Tiffany or...even Selina after that third episode I wouldn't be surprised, but Batman is supposed to know little to nothing about John... Yet the option is still there, and I don't think it's a mistake in the writing. In fact... it's very clever and more meaningful than it looks like.
John does what no one else can possibly do with Bruce. I am pretty sure he knows what he is doing too. Telltale just stayed true to canon in that regards. Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin, they know each other like no one else does, bring sides of each other no one else could, and whether it's Joker losing Batman or Batman losing Joker it's often very hard on them. It might be cheesy but they are what we typically describe as ''soulmates'' ( one whom you can be your true self with, intense and unexplanable feelings toward one another, finding each other in several lifetimes... ) , the writers make sure it's clear, not me. In DC House of Horror #1 - “Last Laugh” story they were even the same person.
So basically even though Bruce is indeed not the type of guy to pinky swear or roleplay in public and even if I can see him cringe when I play, I don't think it would prevent him to develop feelings at all...because he is weird himself.
He is already acting biased. Moreover, Batman is not used to dating ''ordinary'' people he would feel ''comfortable'' with and have ''an healthy and nice relationship with''. He feels deeply attached to people he can relate to, because he doesn't have much real friends ( wait a minute... John does too ) and we have the option to have him say the cheesiest stuff to Selina in results ( like John does with Harley, Batman and Bruce... ) . He has a ''kind of crazy'' from what I heard...and so does John.
I am well aware that a part of what I said is optional... I am just saying how a Bruce romance would make sense for some people, not necessarily for you because I suppose we made different choices. Your interpretation of Bruce might very well be different. We are talking about an ''optional'' romance after all. It is here for those who want it...those who don't should definitly have the choice to just refuse and move on.
Yeah, my Bruce isn't self-conscious or shy. But I never thought of it as being the case. Like it never occurred to me is what I mean. But from your perspective, and having it brought to my attention, yes I could see how it would work. It's definitely an interesting way to see things.
I still don't want the option but it's not something that would keep me from playing the game.
I agree with you, GamerLady, about John's child-like personality. Harley says he's a "growing boy" and at one point puts him in time out. Do you do that with adults? I don't think so.
Right? And I honestly love John, but its like he's the kid brother of Bruce. I just can't see that romantic chemistry that other's seem to be seeing. I see that he definitely looks up to Bruce and admires Bruce, if you help him high-jack the car when they leave the bar he'll even call Bruce his hero. But again, I see it more as John looking up to a big-brother figure not romance.
But not everyone will see it that way. It might be the responses I give vs theirs, but they'll have their own ideas of what Bruce's reactions mean.
I've always said john is like that little bro who just wants to be around his older brother lol. Tbh I never thought of any romance between them untill I saw this thread.
Yeah. And there were even times when I felt like Bruce was like a father-figure and not just the brother-figure. I laughed so hard when at Lucius' funeral you have the option to make John sit down when he's shhhing some guy and Bruce says something like 'be quiet or I'll drag you out of here and teach you some respect.' Like who does that to a grown man? lol. Not unless you really saw them as an adolescent. It was like a father having to deal with his out-of-control son.
That's the vibe I'm getting as well.
I think he meant that in a very violent way, not a "I must teach this boy to behave."
Of course its more likely that the writers meant it as Bruce being violent. I don't know. It didn't really come off that way to me. All I know is that it made me laugh and made me reminisce on my own childhood. I was quite the little hellion and me and my dad were always going at it. Bruce's reaction seemed about right in that regard but then your suggestion is likely more plausible. It just seems an odd choice of words in that case.
But then John has also commented that Bruce has a 'stern father voice' so what I said could also be possible. Or a mixture of both. Maybe John's character sees it how I see it and Bruce really is just meaning to be violent.
I don't know many sons who ramble on about their father's being handsome
"Bruce is strong, smart and handsome! Super handsome, it's nuts, you guys... where was I going with this?"
Anyway I have no problem with you seeing the relationship that way. Like I said in the main post, I don't personally ship it but I think it should be an option for those who want it.
I don't mind it as an option for people who ship BatJoke, but I don't want it forced on us. I marginally like Selina, but understand why people might not ship them. I kind of feel as if that ship is being forced regardless of how we want Bruce to behave or how we left things in season one. That bothers me a little.
That's true, I did forget about John commenting that Bruce was handsome. However I don't think the father-figure/brother-figure is the whole dynamic. I think there are definitely aspects of that. But I don't see that moment of him saying Bruce is handsome as anything romantic. I just see it as John having a big mouth and acknowledging that Bruce is in fact handsome and it's another thing for him to admire. It's basically hero-worship.
That's my main concern with making John an option. While I think telltale did as good a job as they could manage, I don't really think they could keep it from affecting the writing without making it overly complicated for themselves. Selina and Bruce being the prime example.
I also don't feel like it would even add much to the story. Regardless if your romancing John or not his decline into the Joker is still gonna be devastating.
The whole idea is just as insane as he is. I can't fathom why would the writers go that route.
Maybe it's because I spend too much time on Tumblr for my own good, but I really wouldn't mind if it was optional.
Yeah. I agree, I can't see them doing it.
We are already so far along and still so much to unfold. It'd be too much of detour in the wrong direction to even bother with. Not to mention they already have a romance they've put focus on and after the end of episode 3, and depending on if you've partnered with Selina, it's clear she's going to be involved in episode 4 and maybe even 5. Then there's Harley who has had or can have flirtations with Bruce, I don't see that going anywhere but if it does then that's two options already. So there's already a good chunk of the plot being used on romance, to add anymore would detract too much from the story. In which case its definitely not worth it.
Why would turning Bats and Joker gay/bi destroy them? Are you suggesting that gay ppl are worse then straights? Or that they are so much different than straights? It's just sexual preference. If there was a choice in game to romance John you could either chose to do so or not. Your choice, you could have straight bats in your playthrough and I could have gay bats, everyone would be happy. Aand of course ppl would be outraged if you turn gay characters straight because gay ppl are an underrepresented minority in media. Same shit would happen if you turn originally black character white, because black ppl are also an underrepresented minority in media.
You can't make everyone happy regardless. The best way to destroy a story is to make it lose its focus.
Bruce in this universe is straight I'm really sorry. He always has been and should always remain this way.
I believe if turning a gay character straight is an outrage then so is turning a straight character gay. Same for the race thing. And I don't feel like anyone is being underrepresented, not recently. There's several shows and movies that have a black cast and several shows and movies that have gay characters. If you want to go in whose more underrepresented, I'd say its probably Mexican's and asexual's.
And here's the thing, straight males come in all races. They are probably the majority of gamer's, so of course gaming companies are going to cater to that. It would sell more copies. That doesn't mean they are intentionally under-representing someone.
Absolutely agree. It's great to see more minorities (ethnic and sexual) representation in games. By all means Telltale should be free to introduce LGBT characters, but that does not mean they should turn straight heroes into gays for whatever reason.
Bruce is into chicks, I thought the "with me" answers to John episode 2 was more of a joke than anything else. Maybe the writers can clarify what they really meant.
This is how it appeared to me at least. I never got any serious gay vibe from Bruce-John interactions thus far. John is looking for people to "shape" him, to take inspiration from. Bruce is hardly the worst character you could draw from due to its success and his confidence.
I suppose that's why women like him, being good looking is not enough, he has confidence and charisma on top of that.
I thought it was more of the Bruce who thinks so highly of himself that he had to make sure John wasn't talking about him. lol. He even looks relieved and smiles after John says 'no, I hope we can still be friends.'
It seems quite paradoxal don't you think ?
If Bruce thought highly of himself he would enjoy to have charmed somebody once again, it doesn't quite matter if he didn't love them back. It's something he would appreciate.
He wouldn't be relieved but ashamed earing the answer since he would have went through the embarassment of expressing his assumption to get a negative answer. It's a strike to the ego.
I agree he seemed relieved though. He probably was relieved because he didn't want to have to deal with the alternative.
I was kidding.
Mostly when I put lol it means I'm joking around. (Not like I'm funny or anything, I tend to make myself laugh at the stupidest things.) I don't actually think Bruce said it because he thinks so highly of himself. I mean, he did look relieved and all but the question came off like Bruce was legitimately curious. He wasn't judgmental and didn't overreact, it really just seemed like he wanted to clear things up to me.
I share Gamerlady's opinion on this. The secret to equality is to treat people, well, equally. If something is deemed right for the individuals of a sexuality and deemed wrong for others, the risk of falling in a vicious circle where the ever-changing disadvantaged ones will remain angry and hateful at the others is high. If it's outrageous to change a gay characters sexuality, then it should be outrageous to change a straight character's sexuality too, if it's okay to change a straight characters sexuality, then it should be okay to change a gay character's sexuality too.
While I think the ''with me'' option can be a funny one to pick as a player, I don't think it was taken has a Joke by Bruce or John. Bruce seriously thought John could be in love with him... John has been emphisizing on how much he liked Bruce since episode 4 of the first season. He never once mentionned a girl he found that attractive before. It was all ''Bruce, you and I we are a thread in the same stitch'', '' I knew I liked you'', ''I missed your fire''. He was nervous about his every move around Bruce, thinking highly of Bruce's opinion and actually talking to his friends about how ''cool'' Bruce his and how much they should meet him... He was talking about Bruce and Bruce only. Then he had that one moment when he called Tiffanny pretty just to compliment Lucius. Clearly, he acted like someone who has a crush on somebody.
That John loved him was a reasonable thing to assume back then.
John himself had to think about it for a moment before giving an answer. He wasn't even sure himself before Bruce asked.
In the player's space someone who I think is Telltale's director said ''I am not sure if I believe that'' once John said ''no''.
Several members of Telltale's staff seem to be fond of Batjokes to a certain extent. You have Anthony Ingruber talking about an infatuation and borderline love felt by John toward Bruce, but other members of the staff too or at least those who express how much they like the fan arts that potray Bruce and John in a romantic way ( They like, reblog and comment on many of them ). Three of the staff members even went as far as reading Bruce/John fanfictions on AO3. They were so impressed by the writers work that they commented that they thought it was one of the writers working on the game who did it. They encouraged her to apply and they said they would put in good words for her.
I assume it was because the writer seemed to have a great understanding of the mechanics of their game ( as they wrote it on their comments ) but the fact the characters were actually faithful to the original content character's personnality probably played a part too.
In fact, John was asking for Bruce advices on how to get Harley to like him ( the fanfiction was written before episode 3 ). Bruce ended up teaching him how to dance and how to kiss. The dialogues...It wasn't difficult to imagine Bruce or John telling them either. It was also said that John had an idea of himself based on what other people's told him he should be rather than what he truly feels. It seems incredibly faithful to the character too since he is the one asking everyone he cares about what is right, what is wrong, how should he flirt. He repeats things like Dr leland said it's not appropriate to say that, and ''since we are friends we should do X'' as if he is basing his friendship from...whatever he has observed before. It doesn't always fit what he truly feels like since he didn't find his ''true self'' yet.
That's why I don't think that the Telltale director was joking when he said in the player's space that he wasn't sure if we could believe what John said when he said ''no''. John isn't exactly sure of who he is and what his relationships should look like, he looks up to others and try to see what he likes and what he dislikes from there. He is still a growing boy. I am not trying he didn't believe his own ''no'', I am not sure however that his actions reflects that ''no'', and that he is fully aware of everything he feels.
Lastly, even though I guess that Bruce is straight too based on what Harvey said in the previous season, I think
he is also a man who spend his time acting the way people expect him to act. He is trying to fit a certain image people have of him to cover for Batman ( so as ladies man who is not exactly the smartest ), a bit like John. To think he could be bisexual in one version wouldn't be crazy to me. He would go against people's expectation, both in Gotham and in real life. What do we know about who Bruce Wayne really is ? It's basically what this season is about, he is supposed to be confused about what he thinks about himself, what type of people he likes and what he is capable of doing. It would be fitting for him to question his sexuality at this moment too.
So it just makes perfect sense when we think about it.
I think you have hit on an interesting point re who is the target audience. Comic books were, at one point, sort of the consumed by teenage boys, boys who for the most part were not (for lack of a better word) popular or socially successful. It was sort of for outcasts and outsiders... and the depictions of women (and to some extent the men) I think reflect that - the way they are athletic versions of Barbie dolls and always with the cleavage revealing outfits. Through the comics they could fantasize about rescuing the world and looking like the football player that they weren't and dating the cheerleader who (probably) would never have considered dating them.
Well, with all your posts, you have definitely swayed me into seeing how John is possibly bi-sexual. And while I still believe he's head-over-heels for Harley I can say that, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it is later revealed that he also has feelings for Bruce.
However, I don't imagine that those feelings will be shared. I'm basing this opinion on what I've seen from Bruce and it appears to me that he's 100% straight. Just from how uncomfortable he can get around John and so forth, to include his reactions towards Selina. Some of which aren't optional.
For example: In season 1, after the bar fight, Bruce has the option to kiss Selina or to back away. But regardless of your choice he will still give off the impression that he wanted to kiss her. And if you pulled away the codex will say something like 'I need to keep focus and not let my feelings get in the way.' This interaction was in private, so he wasn't acting the part that people expect him to.
Then, as said before, you can ask John if he's in love with Bruce. John will deny it and Bruce will look relieved and even smile. This interaction was also in private.
Then there are versions of Bruce that don't care about public opinion. He can even state that in season 1. And then the fact that he can pinky-swear with John in public, despite how ridiculous it seems for two grown men, and take a selfie with him at a funeral of all places. These aren't really the actions of a man who cares too much of what people think. Although he does look amused/embarrassed after being caught with the pinky-swear and does seem like he felt a bit guilty about the selfie when Tiffany caught him, but he doesn't seem as uncomfortable as he does when John comments on how handsome he is. Not to mention being perceived as a player towards women doesn't really do anything to help maintain his cover as Batman. Acting as a criminal does, but not who he sleeps with. Because he could just as easily be a player towards men.
I agree with everything you said her. and like you said, it seems that no matter the choice, Bruce is straight up just attracted to Selina. His facial reactions.. How he acts around her. Brucie boy Defitnately has a crush.
I agree. Even if you make her your enemy in season 1 and 2 it was established that Bruce had an attraction to her. I think it was revealed as early as episode 2 in season 1. That's not to say that he can't dislike or even hate her, but he was definitely attracted to her physically at some point and that much is permanent.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....no.