Christa was more of an influence on Clem than Lee
**READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT ** Okay, so before you quickly comment a response to try and defend your idea you have had for so long that Lee is like a father to clem and therefore she's learned the most from Lee, Telltale purposefully only shows the audience the time spent with Lee, so that's why we feel like this and why they keep bringing up Lee references all the time.
Anyway, realistically speaking, Clem was with Lee for about 4 months, and with christa for 2 years.
8-9 months of being with a pregnant Christa and Omid,
16 months with Christa alone.
Logically speaking, you are bound to be influenced more by someone as a child, if you're with them for 2 years, than you would be influenced by someone you were with for just about 4 months.
Whether it be a negative influence or positive influence, it doesn't matter. It still massively shapes the person you become.
We can even see this through the jump cut at the beginning of s2, before, she is still a sweet innocent girl with a child like attitude and posture, although she is starting to show more maturity, like when picking a name for Omid Jr.
Then, after 16 months with Christa, she is shown sad and her voice and expressions and everything has changed so much. This is a result of being with a depressed Christa for 2 years, not Lee's survival skills.
No one would care if Clem brought up stuff like "Christa taught me how to sew my arm" or "I was with a woman named christa the longest" or anything like that to anyone, as we, the audience didn't get to see this - This doesn't mean Christa doesn't exist like most people act like. So they just use a character that has been developed to the audience much more, Lee.
If we had seen what happened with her in Christa in those 2 years, we'd probably feel much more of a connection to her then we did with Lee,
Also if your still gonna try and protect the facade of Lee being her biggest influencer anyway, you're probably thinking "Yes but the difference was clem kind of got Omid killed, so christa doesn't like her."
Clem got (and can actually be the direct cause) Sarita killed and kenny forgave her in what, 3 days?
I'm sure in 2 years Christa would've done some healing. We've also seen that Kenny is more emotionally unstable than Christa, and he still kept grudges (like Ben)
Comments
Quality over quantity, my friend.
If Christa did something very significant over those 2 years besides teaching survival skills like getting the food ready etc, I'm sure it would be mentioned.
But let me do a quick analysis of Lee if I may.
Number one Lee was the one who saved Clem's life when she was in the treehouse, as she either would've starved to death there, or gotten killed by walkers in an attempt to find food.
Number two He took full responsibility for Clementine despite the fact that he could've at least tried asking someone else to take care of her on multiple occasions early on like when they met Chet and others, Kenny etc.
Number three He gave her critical life tips that she uses up till this day to survive, and he acted like her father by giving her love and care all the time he was with her.
Number four When Clementine betrayed Lee by going after the stranger, Lee could've easily thought: "Well hopefully stranger will figure something out with her. Maybe he could hurt her and/or be a negative impact but it's just not worth risking my life going after her" But nope, he went after her, eager to find her, risking getting bitten by walkers by having to search on risky places, and pushing himself through a thick herd of walkers.
Number five Even though he was just a stranger, he did all of this for her and even risked(and eventually lost) her life for her, which Clementine confirms in the story builder
Number six He is now the MAJOR reason Clem is alive 9 years into the apocalypse and that she can now successfully raise AJ.
He is WITHOUT a doubt Clementine's greatest influence throughout the series, and I'm so glad Telltale understands that.
EDIT: I would just like to add a final "long story short", which is that: others acted like protectors, and Lee acted like a parent. In other words, Lee accepted her as a daughter, Christa as more of a liability - at the very least she felt nowhere near as a parent towards Clem as Lee did. Clementine felt that and that's why she thinks about him all the time and considers him the greatest influence.
Number One If christa hadn't taught her how to sew up her arm she'd of died there too.
Number two Christa didn't give up clementine either in the 2 years she was with clem, lee was only there 4 months
Number Three Christa obviously did seeing as though being in a Forrest for 16 months would give clem much more hazardous situations that she and christa obviously survived as they were still alive after the 16 months. (And don't say that's just a guess it doesn't count, because that would be implying that you assume clem and christa sat down at that logfire for 16 months without any dangerous situations or life lessons)
Number Four Clem disobeyed Lee and ignored him to go after the stranger, showing she'd just ditch Lee without saying anything if she assumed her parents were somewhere.
Number Five So did Kenny, he isn't someone that "taught her to survive"
Number Six He may be the major reason based on what the audience saw.
Besides the poor sutiring in S2, I have yet to see the lessons or "influence" Christa has had on Clementine. The problem with Clementine and Christa's relationship is that 97% of it was developed off screen with little visible proof of it.
Yeah, so "Logically speaking," rather than what the story wants the audience to see
That and what lessons or influences from Christa have we seen through S2, ANF, and S4. I can only think of one which had little impact on the story or any long term effects.
Lee had a much more positive influence on her than Christa. It’s as someone else said, quality over quantity. I liked Christa but she’s no Lee
Marlon: Clem, who taught you about survival? Clem: Let's see.. I was with christa for 2 years, I would've died if she hadn't taught me to be strong by myself and how to sew up my arm, hmm there was also Jane who also taught me how to kick walkers down and stab them in the head without getting Attacked, there was also Kenny who I was with for 3 years and he taught me that you can still make a new family and have people to care about, there was also javier who showed me that communities can actually succeed and you can have your family survive tough situations.. oh yeah, i'll just say the guy i was with for 3 months that uh.. hmm.. took me out of my house and took me away from my home? Oh i guess he taught me how to shoot, not like anyone else would've in this world xD
"Whether it be a negative influence or positive influence, it doesn't matter. It still massively shapes the person you become."
Your opinion my friend. People do different things which can mean more to someone even if you arent with someone as long as someone else
One: I guess it makes sense, many people saved Clem's life but being stuck hungry in a treehouse surrounded by walkers and improving Clem's own sewing of arm are different. I think Lee's one was more impacting, especially he was the first to take care of her.
Two: Christa probably never had a chance to give her to someone's responsibility, and she even seemed kind of annoyed in episode 1 at the campfire. Lee just simply cared about her much more. I feel like if Christa was the one that found Clem St the treehouse, she wouldn't be eager to become basically a mother, but instead just a temporary protector looking for someone to take care of her.
Three: fine I guess Christa also taught important survival skills.
Four: Clem was little and scared, obviously she wanted her parents back and she would DEFINITELY do the same with Christa. But after they reunited Clem immediately hugged him and apologized, proving she still saw him as a father figure. And saying that if she found her parents that she would ditch Lee is SO WRONG. She would absolutely went back to at least hug him and say thank you for saving her life and taking care of her, but I'd assume she wished Lee would come together with her and her parents.
Five: what I wrote is that Lee died for her.
Six: we never got any mentions of Christa or others being a very strong impact. Telltale themselves already decided that Lee is her biggest impact. In the trailer for s4e1 we see Lee death flashback "I miss you", and then Clem's saddened face.
Telltale doesn't like Christa. It's pretty obvious.
Yea but just because she spent less time with Lee than Christa doesn't mean his relationship with her wasn't strong as her and Christa and he can't be the biggest impact in her life.
You are drifting the wrong way and you don't even realize it.
Who taught you about survival and who was the greatest influence(which was you original question) are two very different things.
EDIT: for example, one may teach you survival skills for two years, other may spend only 3 months with you but be the first one to teach you anything and actually die for you.
I always got the feeling, that Clementine felt and still feels guilty for Lee's death. Clementine had to kill Lee, who did everything he could to keep her safe, because he did EVERYTHING he possibly could to keep her safe.
That must've left much more and much deeper emotional scars in her than whatever she experienced in those two years with Christa. Besides the miscarriage probably not much anyway, since we would've seen it otherwise.
So it does absolutely make sense on why she talks more about Lee than Christa.
Or, to put it harshly: Lee was like a father; Christa was just another Sandra.
Time doesn’t really matter, only the lessons taught. In season 2, everything Clementine does is what we see her pick up from Lee, with like 1 skill from Christa, and that is...sewing??? Lee, on the other hand, taught her how to shoot a gun/defend herself, to keep her hair short, how to deal with loss, how to be brave, etc. Therefore Lee was definitely the most influential by miles
Nevermind, everyone isn't very open minded and doesn't like to see things from both sides.
It's not about being open minded as it is looking at the facts and information we have. Besides Clementines poor sutiring skills, I can't see any influences that Christa had on Clementine.
The two didn't act as if they had a close relationship that has spanned years and onscreen, Christa was a very minor character for S2 and a supporting character with little interaction with Clem in S1.
I find it pretty hard to believe that Clementine (or rather the writers) would go about forgetting about Christa after having spent more than two years alongside her.
Kinda makes me feel sorry for Christa, to be honest. She carries out a dying man's wish to have his protectorate being taken under her and Omid's care, then she loses her partner and is implied to have a miscarriage, and is then promptly forgotten by Clementine after they are permanently split up after a group of bandits attack the two.
Being a mother figure in the Walking Dead universe never seems to go well.
I'm still not exactly sure what is and isn't irony. Is this irony?
as GSSalvador said its a matter of guilt clem caused so much trouble and back breaking to lee she even caused his death and she even felt what her life mean to him when he came to her rescue after a bloody battle through the herd with death all around him after all that he kept making her feel she mean the world to him and his life mean nothing when it comes to her safety that make her feel even more sad and bad and maybe bitter cause he still kept looking after her even at his death and more than that she had the to do the hard choice of ending his life or leaving him become a walker and either way its a hard thing to do so i think lee's death alone and the heavy emotions that been at that time and the final teachings combined with guilt its what changed her and had more influence on her than an entire 2 years Clem and Christa had together she might have changed through the time she had with christa but nothing prove that time she had and what christa teaches her its what changed her persona from a child to a survivor the straw that did changed her is omid's death with her own gun that put more guilt on her heart witch she finally realized that by how she is now she will only cause people who are around her trouble and they will end up like lee and omid who are dead because of her actions. that what shaped her Christa only teaches her and give her the tools to survive just like jane did but she protected her too maybe. maybe even as you said christa made an influence at her i don't know if that true or wrong cause clem didn't say any thing like that happen and if it happen she wouldn't just threw it out of the window and not talk about it i mean she did say christa taught her how to sew her self but she didn't say christa is the one who had her change she say that lee is the one he had the most change in her to sarah at the cabin when she look for her with jane she say lee protected her more than any one did not christa not omid its lee and it will always be lee.
Clem feels guilt for Lee's death but not because she had to shoot him, but because he got bit because of her, like she mentions in the storybuilder.
@MaxTheFax I do not understand why you are coming back with that subject again that bag, both were important to Clem's survival, both moral, social and survival, each had its impact there is no need to discuss the two were was fundamental.
@MaxTheFax It's not honestly possible to judge how much of an influence that Christa had on Clementine, but I will say that whatever that influence is that it is rarely referenced. The issue with Christa is that she had little to no influence on the player.
Anything that occurs off screen simply loses its ability to have a strong impact. It's like skimming over pages in a book 'to get to the good part', or the scrolling text in front of Star Wars. Yes, it contains valid information. Yes, hardly anyone remembers what was said, or what exactly what was said without going back to look at it. Yes, those things influenced the story, but not necessarily what we would consider having a big impact on the characters in them.
For a more real life example, I spent all of my childhood with my parents. However, I spent two summers visiting my aunt out of state ( mind you with the entire family ). She was a single career woman who took care of her mother. Now while I'm certain my parents had an impact on me, the largest impact were those visits to my aunt. Two summers versus eighteen years. I'm a single career woman who takes care of her parents just like her, and have very little in common with either parent.
A short time can be entirely irrelevant or the most significant to oneself. Someone else with the exact same story might have taken from it a different influence - as my elder sister did for instance. She, who was present for both summers, takes more after my parents ( more specifically our father with bits of our mother's hobbies sprinkled in for good measure ). Clementine would have to clarify which people specifically had the most influence on her, which the player can decide to do during the card game, albeit the creators don't lend the opportunity for her to mention Christa specifically.
Respect.
I miss Christa. I think it's unfair we didn't get to see more of her in S2 and especially S3. She could've pulled a "Kenny" moment by being alive again in ANF. lol
I don't think Christa necessarily held a grudge against Clem. I feel like it's more of concern for how she's going to keep Clem alive. I think Christa definitely felt some form of bitterness over Omid's passing, but I don't think she wanted revenge or anything against Clem. You could tell she still tries to ensure Clem knows how to handle herself out in this dangerous world.
It kinda sucks that there was a bare minimum of Clem mentioning Christa and Omid in any context throughout S2 and S3. It's as if both Clem and the developers have tried to forget about them. You get a lot of mentioning about Lee and even Kenny, but Christa and Omid are like strangers. I get that Telltale might have felt that the players might not have been as attached to those two, seeing as how they didn't have a lot of screentime, but man, it still sucks. I liked those two. Same with their treatment of Kenny/Jane in S3, how Telltale just abandoned them like tying up loose ends.
Also Crista was kinda cold towards Clem after Omid so I’m sure Clementine would have a negative impact on Clem
We never knew what Christa taught her during the years she’s been with her. The only thing we know is that Christa taught her how to sew. Clementine never revealed if Christa taught her more about survival because Lee taught her everything she needed to know.
Granted, I’m sure she taught her some stuff offscreen, but it’s likely that it’ll never be revealed. Besides, if Christa did have a bigger impact on Clem than Lee, I’m sure Clem would’ve mentioned her more than Lee.
Nearly all of us here have looked at things from both sides, and if you looked at my comment you’d see that I was one of them. Sure Christa was with Clementine the longest, but that means nothing next to the lessons that Lee has taught her and the bond that they both felt. That bond simply wasn’t there with Christa, especially after what happened with Omid.
I agree, and I generally feel like Christa imagined Clementine as more of a liability, while Lee imagined her as an actual daughter. I doubt that, had Christa been the one that originally found Clem, she'd take such full responsibility and actual parent like approach like Lee did.
That's true. Especially since it's a choice wether or not she shoots him.
"Anyway, realistically speaking, "
In my playthrough keny was the one who spent more time with clem.WHole season (barely any impact),season2(already ahs some impact) and the 2/3 years after it where he was the one teaching clem.
If you stay with Kenny after Season 2, Clementine spends the most time with him, approximately two years. So you could argue who's the biggest influence. At least they gave Kenny flashbacks...
Yeah, and they were absolutely deserving to the character.
I understand where you're going at. However, what Lee had been doing far eclipses everything Christa might have done. If she had taught Clementine some other survival skills that surpass Lee's, then I'd agree with you.
Uhh Every word Christa says to Clementine after Omids death sounds like it has a "fuck you" after it. Seriously go watch her scenes again and listen to her delivery. If she had gotten Clementine to Wellington she would have let others take over and would have gone out of her way to avoid Clem. I mean was she valuable to Clem's life sure. I don't remember Lee teaching her how to start a fire or catch and kill Animals for food. But to claim things had been forgiven is Ill informed.
good joke...mmm no its not even good
The problem with Christa is it’s HEAVILY implied that she held a solid grudge against Clem for Omid’s death. Even 16 months later you can easily pick up on Christa’s somewhat troubled attitude towards Clem. I’m not saying she hated Clem, she obviously cared for her but Omid’s death really put a barrier between their relationship. Even the way they construct Omid’s death hints towards this.
Edit: I personally think Kenny could determinately have had a closer relationship to Clementine then Lee. Other then that I don’t think anyone could really top Lee post-apocalypse.
Logically speaking for most kids, yeah. Clementine was different from other kids in this sense. A good example is the scene where Lee went on the mission to find the tools to move the wreckage, he's like why don't you wanna stay with Christa, don't you like her and Clementine was like yeah but we're a team. Logically Clementine would have also been closer to Rebecca once she calmed down, Sarah or even Luke rather than the distant loner Jane or the crazy, angry guy Kenny. That's not how Clementine operates.
"Lee taught clem how to shoot to save her life"