The Final Season fails completely in this regard
I am talking about the characters. Its just pissing me off how characters like Omar have only 3 lines and then when he dies, later on, we're supposed to feel sad about it? Same with Willy. It really feels like these characters were just added to make the group bigger. So the boarding school has a real community feel. But these 2 characters. They just don't feel like real life people.
Season 1 does this much better. In season 1 all characters have their own story. They all have backstories. (Some are more detailed than others)
While the big focus is still one Lee and Clem's development, other characters will not be forgotten by the writers. And yea, some characters have more development than others. But almost all of them have a decent amount of it.
Now in the Final Season, the only decent characters are Clem, AJ, Louis, Violet, Marlon, Tenn and (kind off), Brody and Ruby
Mitch has like 4 lines in episode 1 and then in episode 2, he goes all angry on Clem the whole episode. And then, in the end, he dies in the most anti-climactic way possible. It just feels so out of place.
And Willy literally just doesn't exist, same with Omar. They are so bland. Who are these two characters? And why should I care about them? Out of all the characters who are alive, Clem, AJ, Louis, Violet, and Tenn are the only ones that I care about. And those are only 5 characters.
If only 5 out of like 8 or 9 characters have a decent amount of development in a game like the Walking Dead, then that's a problem. Cause the Walking Dead focuses a lot on people.
Btw I think people like DabigRG are better at explaining this then I am. But I hope you all kinda understand what I'm trying to say.
Comments
Maybe Omar and Willy will play a bigger role in the next episodes.
While I agree that certain characters are rather weak like Omar and Mitch, this season is doing something that I wanted them to do with Sarah all the way back in Season 2 and stick with it: have Clementine interact with survivors her own age. Or rather, show survivors who are children.
And the writing has really flourished from this choice. Violet is like an apology letter for the short-lived Ava and Sarah. Her and Clem really play well off each other and I found myself caring deeply for her.
I hope so
As someone who thinks TFS is by far the best, I agree with this. I'm not sure it's a bad thing as I only care about Clem and the main fixtures in her life. But S1 did better at making you know every single person at least a tad.
They coulda fixed this by just having Willy and Omar join the card game. Could asked him "Where did you learn to cook" or Willy "Why did you eye up Clem when she first got here. Something you need to tell us?"
Boom BACKSTORIES.
But i'd say Willy got some attention fighting with Assim over the booby trap.
Yes, I'm really feeling nothing when Omar gets shot at.....
Willy is tiny bit better than Omar, but still, I couldn't care less for these two(I mean I even thought Willy was a girl in entire ep1)
Mitch&Ruby at least got some lines.
I guess Omar probably died in next episode to get some player's attention for him. But no............I don't feel things for him.............
I agree season 1 is the best! Even 400 days dlc had a lot of impresive characters.
Season 2, most of them are good, some I don't really remember.
And this is also one reason why I don't like ANF, most of them I can't care.......
Yea the fact that Clem is in a group with people her age is pretty nice. I just hoped that all them had a good amount of development.
Another reason why Season 1 is the best. Backstories. We will learn more about the characters in episode 3 but considering there are only 4 episodes and that's already the penultimate episode, it feels a bit late.
They did the opposite with Marlon in a way though. We knew him for half an episode and he's probably the 3rd most important character of the season plot wise. It's insane how well they did his story in such a short amount of time.
2 characters isn't so bad. I mean Danny St. John and Doug were kinda dry for season 1 as well. They had their moments but not much depth. I guess it happens.
But I do agree we need a Willy card game. Seems to be 1 every episode. they added Tenn and Assim last time. Assim would have been on this lsit but they added him to the card game and viola. We get his crush, his feelings towards Clem, a iconic moment of him kissing the walker or asking for the number. All In like 5 minutes. The card game is an easy way to uncover back story naturually and very fast without getting in the way of the plot.
"TFS fails completely in that regard."
Talking about hyperbole ....
You're right, that those two characters are underdeveloped, but don't hang yourself to much on that issue. Compare that with S2 .... i'm just gonna say that TFS is way closer to S1 than S2 in that regard.
Even the St. Johns had a bit backstory. You also understand their motives even if its pretty fucked up what they did.
I think quite some characters have messy development. It's just that Willy and Omar are the most obvious example
I'd still wait until the end of the season. S1 became as good as it is over time, not instantly. And even S1 had characters, that I didn't really felt for, Like Katja, Mark and Christa.
S1 wasn't perfect.
I sort of agree and sort of disagree. I agree about characters like Willy and Omar, but I don’t think TFS fails in regard to its characters as hard as you came off on it. I’ve been sold on most of the Erickson kids. Lou, Vi, Tenn, Marlon, Aasim, Brody, Ruby, AJ. Excluding Clem, thats 8 characters out of a total 11 that have gotten relatively good to great characterization with the main cast being the strongest for obvious reasons.
I definitely agree that someone like Mitch could’ve been done better. Much better. He was too inconsistent to be anything but a throwaway. And Omar got shot because he was their throwaway. But even Season 1 had its throwaways.
Seeing as Omar got snatched, I don’t see much hope for his character, but considering Mitch was Willy’s bff, he might see some better characterization next episode. We’re only half way in so let’s not write some of them off just yet.
But for me personally, if only 3 out of a total 11 characters don’t catch my attention, I think they’re doing a fine job.
They still do a great job. It’s just that Clem doesn’t need to interact with them all that much. Omar makes food and Willy does stuff. Clem hangs out with the kids closer to her age, while Tenn interacts with her a lot. This isn’t too big of a complaint honestly. Just because a few characters are severely lacking now doesn’t mean they won’t get their turn like ruby and mitch.
Also Mitch died to save Tenn, how is that anti-climactic?
Very well put.
While I do think that Omar should have had a little more dialogue in Ep 1, you can't cram too much character development in one episode. Think of Suicide Squad, one of the main reasons that the movie is completely awful is because they tried to cram characters and character development within the first few minutes of the movie. Give them some time and I'm sure Omar will be a much more interesting character (I hope).
But episode 3 is already the penultimate episode. In season 1, by that time, all characters who were alive had a good amount of development.
Completely agree. For those saying 'wait for Episode 3' the point is we're halfway through the story and Willy and Omar are hardly characters.
Omar s probably gonna end up being the token simple character who isnt that interesting but lives to subvert expectations so people dont think he s going to be the next to die all the time.
As for Willy im 100% sure he s getting more scenes next episode since Mitch is dead.
Well, they are still better developed than any of the ANF characters except Javier.
I have not been attached to any of the characters and thus have not bought the game. I am not sure if it is to do with them being teenagers rather than adults, but am just not feeling it this season. I do not know if I will ever buy it considering I have every other game.
True
The gameplay and graphics are a lot better. You get to fight the zombies rather than just nail a lame QTE. And being Clem is always a plus, right? Perhaps by the end you might get interested in it but I’d still say it’s worth it.
Imo, Vi and Louis hog too much plot importance.
Might as well make it the Clem and AJ and Vi and Louis show. You can literally kill every other kid off and it wouldn't affect much of the overall plot. That's how little these characters are developed.
This is your fair warning--it's gonna be long. So I'll be nice and label everything in spoilers.
Intro
This is the Final Season, a game that, while seemingly rushed to completion in terms of development, was going out of it's way to emulate a number of aspects from the previous seasons. The biggest sign of this is it's 2+ hour long episodes, which have been absent since the first season and is something fans have been asking for since Season 2 was barely into it's second episode. And yet, despite this, I can't help but feel a little critical of how menial it's effectiveness can be when you actually consider the full episodes. We are literally at the halfway of The Final Season, over four to five hours of combined gameplay and storytelling, and yet, I feel the characters and especially the story aren't quite as interesting or fleshed out as they probably should be given the attributed credentials.
The Paragons
Since this is a thread about the characters specifically(ai. the most important thing about most stories), let's focus on them. You know, it really spoke to me just how less than completely stellar the first episode was when the bulk of the discussion and praise for the characters was primarily attributed to Louis and Violet. Not primarily because they were personable characters(although that is a part of it, admittedly), but because they were speculated to be possible romance options; the latter in particular was initially listed on TVTropes as being popular solely for her LGBT status, hilariously enough. Not to mention they have the most interaction/screentime of any of the new characters.
Main Group Depth(featuring Willy and Omar)
In regards to the new cast as a group/whole, I personally feel that only Louis, AJ, and to an extent Marlon have felt appropriately realized for the time and focus they've been given. As for the rest of them, Tenn and Assim have relatively defined voices, Violet and Ruby have their moments, Willy and Omar have something of moniker, Mitch at least played the part that was assigned to him, and Brodie(who I legit forgot about until I wrapping this up) is somewhere between Violet&Ruby and Mitch. The thing with Willy and Omar in particular, is that their character's being different from the others in design and presentation. This should theoretically lend itself to helping develop them and the settlement in general on the side; and on those basic levels, they are identifiable if you pay any attention to them. However, at least in the context of Episode 2, there's relatively. Mind you, Willy is technically a slight upgrade from Episode 1, where he has one hilarious first impression and a few scant lines amongst the others, the former being reflected by his lack of an actual associated/determinant choice in the results. However, as I note in my flaws entry, he and Omar(amongst other, more visible characters) aren't given much in the way of proper interaction and focus in episode 2, with the latter in particular being a few steps above being a Red Shirt.
Contrasting Substance and Space
The fact that these juvenile delinquents have been surviving in the same location before and after the outbreak until this very season was indeed a handicap because it means they essentially have the same broad backstory and by extension, a limited range of background, interests, and to some degree dynamics to draw from beyond what broad strokes you can see. Now Episode 2 does make some degree of effort to give Mitch, Ruby, and I wanna say Violet some of that, so it's not like there's no attempts to work some in, but I also feel that's kind of a small pool for the space we had to work with. Not only that, but outside of the big two and recently Mitch, most of them barely have much of a connection and in a few cases viewpoint with Clementeen. Compare that to, say, the Cabin Group from Season 2: an eclectic alliance of seven(originally nine with a bowed out tenth) characters are all running away from the same settlement due to their respective differences with it's leader(a former friend to some of them), but are also split into at least three families with have roughly twice as many different stories that could've been told. A crew that infamously couldn't seem to effectively agree between just two approaches half of the time, have a measure of skeletons in the closest, trust issues and other flaws that define them. This somewhat shined through in their initial impressions, dynamics, and gaining grounds Clementine getting different temperatures, views, and even operations from each of them initially). Another one of their flaws from an out of universe perspective was that they were somewhat underdeveloped and having distinctly unfinished character/story arcs--with only Nick, Pete, and eventually Luke getting the most background and the farmboys plus Sarah being the most defined--due in part to having to share their episodes/screentime with Clementine's isolation by Scavengers and Kenny's return, some of their scenes optional, supplanted, changed, or cut, and their entire Myth Arc essentially being sidelined and unfulfilled. I know it's technically a rendering produced by bias, I admit that, but unfortunately, The Final Season just occasionally made me ponder why Season 2 couldn't have had this level of room back in the day and why this couldn't have just been the latest in a standardly good series.
Other Characters
As for the villains and other [important] characters, Rosie is a dog that has a backstory with the unnamed Headmaster and bonds with Marlon, Tenn, and determinantly Clementeen, Abel is just a kinda fun and straightforward secondary baddie who smokes Bible pages, has a rough way of putting things, and has a little enmity with AJ going on, Lily is dodgily [under]written as an supposed Main Villain and an unimpressed but still very slightly fettered apparent Archenemy for Clementeen(who is pretty much a returning character for the nostalgia points otherwise), Minerva is a peaceful songbird, Tenn's missing [white] sister, and [second] most importantly Violet's girlfriend(and the bulk of what notable develop she has) who was indoctinated into The Deltas' war efforts and is pretty obviously slated to make her dramatic debut in the next episode(if it gets out anytime soon), James is a One Scene Wonder defected Whisperer(and as such, you need to read the comics to get more impact out of that) who has a disdain for war&violence even among walkers and is just kinda your exposition on the otherwise just there for the sake of it Deltas' motivations, and poor Sophie has only gotten a direct mention as being the owner of the painting supplies by Violet, but is otherwise equivocally a clone of Minerva storywise thus far.
From this point on, it's not about the strength of character so much as the whole product. ...Yeah.
Release Dates
Stepping away from just the characters, let's talk about how anything holds up to Season 1. Simply put, it isn't; nothing can. Avoiding repeating stuff that's been said already or the Bossman's great addressing of it, there is one element in particular that, amongst a few others, should illustrate what a futile effort that is--the development. Specificially, the time spent conceptualizing and developing The Final's Story, Characters, and Gameplay. Need we forget that The Final Season, for as well-presented as it may seem, is essentially something of a pretty-ish rushjob? From the Gallows, the exceedingly beer passing hotmess that it was, was released on May 29, 2017 and infamously ended with the postcredits message "Clementine's story will continue"; a common assessment by this very community was that this finale was obviously rushed out the door just so Telltale can just be done with A New Frontier(or "A New Failure," as I vaguely recall someone not so cleverly putting it) and move on. By comparison, the Season's Banner(along with it's title and the redesigned Alvin Rebecca Carver Jr) was unveiled around March 30, 2018, a private Tech Demo and the Ericson Quartet(and Rosie) were revealed at PAX East on April 6 , 2018, a Teaser Trailer(featuring AJ's first speaking appearance and the redesigned Clementeen's overly dark Hell's Angels jacket) was shown at E3 2018 on June 6, 2018, the game's complete Official Trailer(for Episode 1) was uploaded on August 9, 2018, and finally premiered with Done Running on August 14, 2018. That is a time gap of 10 months, plus one week, 11 months, 12 months, and finally 13 months, respectively.
Production Time
The Final Season itself thus only had a collective one year and a little over two months of concentrated development, with an intended consistent release schedule being put out proclaiming the full product to be out by the end of the year. And while I don't know an the exact number regarding any of the seasons/installments' development, I do know there was a lot more time, energy, thought, and pure heart put into Season 1. Here's some minor examples:I remember there was a thread showcasing what lines went unused and how everyone were commenting on just how shockingly few there are compared to previous seasons as a good sign. By contrast, Clementine, The Mascot and "Greatest Child Character in Video Game History," was allegedly the first idea during Season 1's development, went through numerous designs, backgrounds, races, and tangible bonds with the player character to get down pat, and was apparently up for chop at one point for the failure of both children and adults to grasp the sort of voice and emotion they were looking for.
Opposite Ends
Season 1(and every installment barring Michonne) had five episodes/scenarios to work with, while The Final Season is already at the halfway at episode two. I also feel like a lot more happened both there and the other games compared to the final season in the same [equivalent] amount of episodes; one may also add that Season 1 had roughly fifteen(give or take characters like Shawn and Jolene) major characters to establish, expound on, and develop compared to The Final Season's, what, twelve? And finally, the one thing people have been conditioned to stress with these games' stories, the ending. It's been talked about a number of times, before, during, and likely after this point, but The Final Season's ending will almost certainly never be as universally satisfying, fitting, or iconic as Season 1's. So yeah, in regards to how The Final Season compares to the Qualifier, there was never really much of a chance. This is a somewhat valiant attempt to replicate a similar feeling, I will give it that. But it's just that--an attempt, a replication.
Dat shoutout, tho.
I mean ok sure those two characters are underdeveloped, although every other character this season has been handled extremely well in my opinion..
Also I think it’s pretty clear that Willy is going to be featured heavily next episode, they put a ton of emphasis onto his reaction to Mitch.
Omar probably exists just to die though.
Is that so?
(I lowkey forgot to comment on other posts.)
There's more details about him(and pretty much every new character besides Travis) that didn't quite make it into the game proper.
Uh, no, they added Aasim to the card game.
As much as I hate to draw attention to it, Tenn's literally just there for his segment, "Deep Six with Tennessee."
Dude, I don't know where you've been, but Aasim was actually a pretty well talked about and expectant character here precisely because he was surprisingly distinct character-wise.
Granted, this episode did serve to humanize him a good bit( at a cost), but still.
That is both the saving throw and the shipping sail about The Final Season.
Granted, their clearly cheating and halfassing it at times, but that's the field.
That or actually have them around in the hubs for one on one interaction.
Yeah, Willy at least was always that one weirdo off to the side.
Omar just kinda has a semi-different character design, a particular moniker, and a mention as being Louis's [other] friend and all that's from episode one.
I remember thinking that about Omar, personally.
Fixed.
Okay, yeah, I did see that when I was watching a compilation yesterday, but it requires Tenn to not invoke No Means No.
Omar is literally a Suicide Squad character right now then.
I'm trying to put some frame of reference around that.
Eeeeeeh....
Lolwut
I actually feel the opposite. I hate when a character gets a bunch of development and then gets killed off shortly after. The show pulled a lot of that shit before I bailed on it. I don't need to know a character's life story to have a minimum amount of empathy when I see them get hurt/killed.
Don't worry, they'll get backstory and screen time in the next episode, before they die by the end of it.
Abel: My fam.. Clem: No. Abel: I am trying to sell you my backstory. Clem: I do not care. Abel: But it is compelling as fuck... Clem: You stitch your arm together at the age of 11 using fishing line in a shed after a doctor couldn't tell a dog bit you? Abel: ....no. Clem: Then it is boring, shut up.
THIS
That's the thing though, it may not be all close and developed, but it's not Richmond either. It's somewhere inbetween, and perhaps the best group for Ericson to look up to would be The Motor Inn. Although we didn't know much about Mark, he was still a well pronounced, humanized and likeable character. When he died players showed sympathy and Episode 3 shows the group slowly breaking apart and Lee trying to hold things together whilst also having to protect Clem. Literally, every character in The Motor Inn was better than Ericson kids, save for Louis and Violet and Tenn.
And as @SavageClemmy said, this story has Louis and Violet, best friendos, hogging plot whilst seemingly not doing enough to further the story. It's all just a linear and quite simple plot that has you spending time with your friends, but because everyone other than those two seems like boring, undeveloped, yet quirky AI (knife dude, cook dude, Abel's son, philosophical dude, writer dude), there really is no tension. No weight on your shoulders. You felt that in S1 and S2. But in TFS, you can see that that is also the intention, but sadly it doesn't get across and isn't strong enough. When you're actively playing the game those thoughts that may or may not flow through your mind auren't powerful enough to get you to care or worry. S1 showed us just how powerful and how strong of an emotional experience narrative games can bring, but this? It's the Vi and Lou and Clem show, but nothing actually happens. Soppy romance does more harm than good. Making the kids inexperienced and incompetent survivors does more harm than good to the players. That's such a cheap way of showing that Clem is the leader. Oh, because she's at least 2 times better than them at surviving. Making the kids argue about Brick Vs Log does harm. I feel as though the kids themselves don't understand the gravity/severity of the Walking Dead world. They're all just.. teenagers. And it sucks. How could you actually 'like' a school kid other than Vi or Louis? I can see how people like James, but it's hard to be fond of Aasim. You don't need to like everyone, the fact is no-one is a villain and it is really soppy and poor when kids do try to be condescending and villainous, i.e. Mitch. I was laughing at his horrible attempts, oh what's going to happen he'll swear at Clem? And if he tries to fight, lemme guess, he'll fail because Clem is two times stronger than even the adults? This isn't Dragonball. This is babysitting. I don't know what how I can take this game seriously when everyone, except two best friends who don't actually do anything, are just quirks who also don't do anything. Look at the main TWD story, you've got these great characters, Rick, Carl, Maggie, Michonne, Jesus etc. they all have their goals and intentions, they all fit in the story, their subplots are actually intriguing, their struggles are usually nail-biting and their action scenes are decent. When you look at TFS, everyone reacts similiarly to situations, when Marlon dies everyone is saying the same thing, you've got an idiot who says they should get meds, then you've got Ruby saying that's impossible because he was shot in the head (oh you're the doctor so you're the one who should say that) I thought we'd get one of the kids talking about Marlon in a good light, perhaps back when the outbreak started, because it seemed like the perfect time to input some backstory. I have a lot more to say but no-one really cares so yeah. Perhaps the only way to recover from this horrible characterisation is to have a good amount of the kids still alive at the end, hence 'home' being the theme. People are saying we won't feel bad when they die, but what if they don't?
This is actually what I was trying to say. Thanks
Seems like everything revolves around Louis and Violet, other kids are meaningless.
Oh well this seems to please most of playerbase though, on twitter and reddit I see so many shipping threads or romantic fan arts that I thought this game became a love story instead of the fucking walking dead.
I have always cared more for storylines than gameplay and graphics in computer games. QTEs were never an issue for me because again, I look for character development rather than a visually improved environment. Clementine is also not an issue.