To be honest, Clementine seemed to have a good opinion of basically everyone in S1. About the only exception would be Larry, for obvious reasons. Given that most of the shitty things Kenny can do/say to Lee are things that happen when Clementine isn't around to see them, I'd go out on a limb and guess that she probably thought Kenny was a nice enough dude.
He doesn't ASK for sympathy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Kenny THINKS he can get away with shit just because he lost people when in reality EVERYONE has lost people. Yes, losing a wife and child is traumatic, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like shit, just because they have a different opinion to you.
What's wrong with Kenny is that he thinks his opinion is fact and if you made ONE mistake, then he'll be a dick to you later on. I did a play through where I tried to only get Kenny and Ben to come with me at the end of episode 4. I saw it in let's plays, so I knew it was possible. Did everything for Kenny. The only thing that I was aware of not doing in his favour was dropping Ben (obviously). He refused to come. When I got to the end of the season, I looked at all the character bios things (whatever they're called) and I realised what Kenny was so pissed off with me about. I saved Doug, meaning that I couldn't tell Kenny about my past. Now, I understand why Kenny would be pissed off with Lee, but what got me was the fact that Kenny was willing to let a little girl die. Clementine has NOTHING to do with Lee's past, so why should that even matter? That's when I realised how petty Kenny was.
Like I said before, I don't HATE Kenny, he just irritates me and there's certainly many characters who are worse than him, but what I am fed up with is people defending every bad thing he has done. Yes, Kenny has done good things, but those don't cover up the bad things he's done and vise versa. He can be your favourite character, but you got to admit it, the guy has flaws. My favourite characters (besides from Lee and Clem) are Violet, Louis, Ruby, Tenn, Ben and Molly. I know they're not perfect, I even make fun of their flaws sometimes. Every character has flaws, some have more than others, but they still got them. Sometimes, I hate the Kenny fan-base because they see him as some form of God, when he's just like everyone else, a human being trying his best.
That's why I can't like Kenny. He thinks that he can get away with things just because he's "broken"
Um no. Kenny has never ever ask… moreed for sympathy relating to what’s happened to him nor thinks he can get away with things for being broken. Tell me when he has ever used that to his advantage or to gain sympathy? He hasn’t. He has never wanted anyone to feel sorry for him. He’s too full of pride for that.
Everyone in the apocalypse suffered, so why should Kenny be the special snowflake and get away with beating up a tied up kid just because of a few, insulting words, like Kenny didn't use "commie" as an insult for the entire episode.
Again he has never asked for extra attention/sympathy, why do you make it sound like that’s the case? People still fail to understand the reasons behind the entire Arvo treatment. They think because he’s a kid that he should be treated oh so nicely and everyone kiss his ass. Why the fuck? This… [view original content]
I have read what you have posted and that’s fine. I respect your opinion. I would like you to know that i am fully aware of his faults and i can see why he gets on your nerves and i myself don’t agree on everything he says or does but i do however always respect and understand the reasons behind his actions and i am not one of these sensitively people who hold grudges against him even worse than Kenny himself.
I would like to reply to a few things you said though:
He doesn't ASK for sympathy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Kenny THINKS he can get away with shit just because he lost people when in reality EVERYONE has lost people. Yes, losing a wife and child is traumatic, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like shit, just because they have a different opinion to you.
He doesn’t THINK he can get away with anything at all though either! He never once implied that because his family died that he can do what he wants, that is just how he is in general. The problem with people who dislike Kenny is that they blame him for everything and they hate the fact he speaks his mind. He’s honest about his feelings and he’ll tell you when he doesn’t agree with you or if someone’s opinions/choices are shit. I respect that. Yeah he may be a dick towards you but again he’s being honest. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m serious! If people get so butthurt by his insulting remarks they need to grow a pair. People who are nice as pie and nod/agree to every decision without question all the time, those are the people you shouldn’t trust in a zombie apocalypse. I’d also like to point out that some people forget that Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry knocked him down, if i was Lee i would always have his back for saving me. So imagine from Kenny’s POV that Lee goes against him later on, that gives Kenny the impression that this guy was a prick who wasn't even truly appreciative of having his life saved after what Larry did? "I had your back after Larry left you, will you have mine now that we are in danger in this meat locker? Oh you won't? Fuck you then, last time i save your ass". Sure this can be seen as disloyal but can you blame him? I can’t. So sometimes i do feel the way Kenny treats you is completely fair and understandable.
What's wrong with Kenny is that he thinks his opinion is fact and if you made ONE mistake, then he'll be a dick to you later on.
True but the way i see it, trust is the most important thing in a zombie apocalypse, if someone betrays your trust even once, i’d be pissed too. You can call it petty but it’s not normal day to day life anymore and everyone should have each other’s backs.
I will however admit that I would have preferred the writers to have made him a bit less of an asshole at times only because i don’t agree with the amount of hate he gets.
The only thing that I was aware of not doing in his favour was dropping Ben (obviously). He refused to come.
but what got me was the fact that Kenny was willing to let a little girl die. Clementine has NOTHING to do with Lee's past, so why should that even matter?
He refused to come because you needed to remind him about family. He’s a hotheaded guy who doesn’t always think things through. Once reminding him about family, Kenny remembered what Lee had done for his family, he happily comes with you. It’s not a case of willing to let a little girl die, especially when everyone assumed she had been taken by Vernon who they would have at least thought wouldn’t have hurt her. Kenny was more focused on his beef with Lee to think logically about anything else, besides he goes with you no matter what after Lee returns from Vernon’s when they get holed up in the house and seems hellbent on making amends. If he stayed behind with the boat he still says he’ll wait for him to get back with Clem to get the boat out on the water.
I’m sorry if it sounds like i am always defending him, i see your point on a number of things and i know he has done bad things but so has everyone else. I’m just giving some insight onto why he is the way he is. I am glad you acknowledge the good things about him too.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. I don’t really want to spend day after day debating it. Thanks for reading.
He doesn't ASK for sympathy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Kenny THINKS he can get away with shit just because he lost people … morewhen in reality EVERYONE has lost people. Yes, losing a wife and child is traumatic, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like shit, just because they have a different opinion to you.
What's wrong with Kenny is that he thinks his opinion is fact and if you made ONE mistake, then he'll be a dick to you later on. I did a play through where I tried to only get Kenny and Ben to come with me at the end of episode 4. I saw it in let's plays, so I knew it was possible. Did everything for Kenny. The only thing that I was aware of not doing in his favour was dropping Ben (obviously). He refused to come. When I got to the end of the season, I looked at all the character bios things (whatever they're called) and I realised what Kenny was so pissed off with me about. I saved Doug, meaning that I couldn'… [view original content]
To be honest, Clementine seemed to have a good opinion of basically everyone in S1. About the only exception would be Larry, for obvious rea… moresons. Given that most of the shitty things Kenny can do/say to Lee are things that happen when Clementine isn't around to see them, I'd go out on a limb and guess that she probably thought Kenny was a nice enough dude.
As I've said before, Kenny only has 3 interactions with Clem in the S1 that I've seen.
When they first meet at hershel's barn, when he tells clem to go through the vent at the St John's, and when he tells clem to get on the train.
Actions speak louder than words you know, we didn’t see or hear any moments where Clem appeared to look down on him but i think drawing a pi… morecture of him and his family and keeping it for over 2 years indicates enough from a child’s perspective that she cares very much about him. There is no reason why she wouldn’t either given the fact she had known him for 3 months and was close to his son and she thought highly of Katjaa. The player effectively chooses how they feel about Kenny by the time Seaaon 2 rolls around anyway.
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open your eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned about someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
I’m just going to literally copy and paste what i said a second ago:
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open your eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned about someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
Clem did not once say or imply that she “looked down” on anything Kenny did, she even says to Lee right at the end of the game that she understood what happened to Larry needed to be done
There is also an interaction in Crawford when Kenny and Brie return with the fuel, Clem says “you’re back” and he responds with “yeah we did pretty good” or words to that effect. So add that to the list
As I've said before, Kenny only has 3 interactions with Clem in the S1 that I've seen.
When they first meet at hershel's barn, when he tell… mores clem to go through the vent at the St John's, and when he tells clem to get on the train.
only the first one was somewhat positive
Listen I know he is your perfect man and that you envision riding a unicorn with him...but do please stop with the blind loyalty...other than the time he was wallowing in despair about Duck ...he really had nothing to do with Clem...plus my main issues with him is his treatment of people who dare disagree with him and his beating of an unarmed prisoner and turning the entire group against him. As I have said before...Kenny had a great arc in S1...he should not have been brought back because it basically ruins it. S2 he was a major fuckup and it hurt the story big time by having him in it.
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open your eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned … moreabout someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
Doubt you’ll read all this but oh well here it is:
but do please stop with the blind loyalty
I will when you stop with the blind hatred and pointing out every single fault he has without ever acknowledging the good things about him or at least just saying one positive thing about the character and meaning it! If you weren’t so one sided then I wouldn’t actually have a problem with you. At least people like BetterToSleep, DabigRG dislike him but don’t say such vile things about him and they have often admitted the good things he’s said or done in the past.
I have always been aware of his flaws, temper tantrums etc but I understand the reasons for them and yet i don’t always agree with him like wanting me to drop Ben or finding Wellington without knowing exactly where it is, just to name a few. He’s no saint but neither are any of us. I just don’t agree with constant hate for someone who doesn’t deserve it every single time his name is brought up.
other than the time he was wallowing in despair about Duck ...he really had nothing to do with Clem...
Kenny and Clem’s friendship was always through his son. Clem had Lee in Season 1. There was a 3 month time gap that we didn’t see any possible bonding between Kenny and Clem but it’s clearly obvious that the family loved her so we can assume he had something to do with her. It’s kind of irrelevant because you know i didn’t write Season 1 and 2 to be how it was between the 2 characters. There are people i work with who i don’t always talk to but i like and respect them so Kenny and Clem can be the same.
plus my main issues with him is his treatment of people who dare disagree with him
He’s honest, speaks his mind and tells you to your face when he disagrees and i do not see anything wrong with that but the reason you hate him is just because he is a bit of a mean, rude guy in the way he comes across when he disagrees. Big fucking deal, be less sensitive and man up! Just because everyone else smiles and nods to every decision like some yes-man puppet, and afraid to speak up to avoid hurting others feelings doesn’t make them better. In a zombie apocalypse those are the sorts of people you shouldn’t trust. Try and see where I’m coming from for a change. Half the time he has those “rude” moments, he often doesn’t mean it and calms down later on. You should know this by now.
and his beating of an unarmed prisoner and turning the entire group against him.
Arvo was part of a group who had tried to rob and kill everyone and you think everyone should hold hands with Arvo, sing songs and skip happily with him like he’s suddenly their best friend? You’re as bad as Bonnie and Mike for the unrealistic defence of that little shit if so. If someone had tried to kill me or was part of a group that were, do you think i’d sit by and be calm around him and treat him nice? No. I would be very cautious of him. Now i am man enough to admit that beating him up was unneeded and wasn’t helping the situation but we all know he has a short temper and saying “fuck you” to him was not exactly a smart thing to do was it? He always had a reason and didn’t just hit him for no reason. I also judge that scene as Kenny letting out mounds of frustration for the situation they were all in and the past shit that occurred to him, the fact Luke died he (believe it or not) showed that he was upset about it and he jumped to conclusions of Arvo having no supplies before Jane walked in with them. He makes mistakes, i admit his flaws but i have “blind loyalty” right? I’m just a very forgiving person and in real life too i guess. I don’t think that makes me bad.
As for turning the group against him, fuck all of them! He never asked to be part of their group. He was dragged away from a settled lodge when he was finally happy again with his new girlfriend, forced into hard labour, got his eye bashed in and lost yet another person he loved in his life. He didn’t have to stay but he did. Helped a pregnant woman deliver her baby, became the surrogate father of that kid when he didn’t have to but he did because he actually does have good heart deep down, fixed up a truck for the whole group who weren’t grateful for it. Mike and Bonnie deciding to leave because of Kenny makes me laugh when they should know by then that Kenny is only dangerous to those that threaten his family which Carver and Arvo clearly did. He was never going to “hurt” them the way he did Arvo. Of course i can see people like you thinking otherwise but that doesn’t surprise me when you never see the bigger picture.
So yeah fuck that group who are nothing but cowards and ungrateful whenever the going gets tough.
As I have said before...Kenny had a great arc in S1...he should not have been brought back because it basically ruins it.
Well that’s your opinion and I of course disagree. I think without Kenny, the story would have been worse and boring. The writing wouldn’t have changed much, a few swapped roles here and there. Kenny brought drama and for most people, S1 nostalgia which was clearly Telltale’s plan from the start. I do partially agree though that Telltale ruined his character in Episodes 4-5 by making him ridiculously over the top and more violent which i felt was too out of character and sadly made more people hate him which is my biggest issue.
Listen I know he is your perfect man and that you envision riding a unicorn with him...but do please stop with the blind loyalty...other tha… moren the time he was wallowing in despair about Duck ...he really had nothing to do with Clem...plus my main issues with him is his treatment of people who dare disagree with him and his beating of an unarmed prisoner and turning the entire group against him. As I have said before...Kenny had a great arc in S1...he should not have been brought back because it basically ruins it. S2 he was a major fuckup and it hurt the story big time by having him in it.
I’m just going to literally copy and paste what i said a second ago:
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open yo… moreur eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned about someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
Clem did not once say or imply that she “looked down” on anything Kenny did, she even says to Lee right at the end of the game that she understood what happened to Larry needed to be done
I’ll repeat myself again but slightly rephrase it:
You really need to actually put yourself in that meat locker and truly imagine being in there.
He considered Clem’s safety/life over her feelings but tell me Louche, what’s more important? Saving lives or worrying about someone’s feelings of the outcome?
“Now i kill someone before it puts your little girl in danger” is the entire line said in that scene if you stay silent. Clementine even tells Lee right at the end of the game in the jewellery store that she understood about the situation with Larry because her and Lee were trapped in the store knowing he would soon turn and couldn’t let themselves be trapped. It’s exactly the same situation, only difference is that Lee had a bit more time to make sure Clem was safe from him when he turns.
The point here is that you’re claiming that Clem “looked down” on Kenny when that clearly isn’t true as Clem doesn’t have a bad word to say about anyone in this game except for Larry himself and that’s a fact.
I’ll repeat myself again but slightly rephrase it:
You really need to actually put yourself in that meat locker and truly imagine being i… moren there.
He considered Clem’s safety/life over her feelings but tell me Louche, what’s more important? Saving lives or worrying about someone’s feelings of the outcome?
“Now i kill someone before it puts your little girl in danger” is the entire line said in that scene if you stay silent. Clementine even tells Lee right at the end of the game in the jewellery store that she understood about the situation with Larry because her and Lee were trapped in the store knowing he would soon turn and couldn’t let themselves be trapped. It’s exactly the same situation, only difference is that Lee had a bit more time to make sure Clem was safe from him when he turns.
The point here is that you’re claiming that Clem “looked down” on Kenny when that clearly isn’t true as Clem doesn’t have a bad word to say about anyone in this game except for Larry himself and that’s a fact.
Essentially. He's sorta there to have and become what Lee doesn't.
Though given Episode 3's slide, I kinda have to wonder if the hypocrisy was a later affect.
And an entire gang of Russian bandits, some cannibals, a herd of walkers, Mike, and Carver's gang. But yeah let's ignore all that for the sake of being a Kenny hater.
And an entire gang of Russian bandits, some cannibals, a herd of walkers, Mike, and Carver's gang. But yeah let's ignore all that for the sake of being a Kenny hater.
Like TheFlyOnTheWall said. Everyone has suffered but everyone has suffered to different extents. Not one character in any walking dead has suffered as much as S2 Kenny. Not even close. Physically and mentally. Jane took her own life and she didn't go through an 8th of what the man went through.
Lee was pretty close. Current day Clem is pretty close. But Kenny literally had his wife blow her brains out in front of him moments after putting his own son out old yeller style. He then carries that on his shoulders for the rest of his life. Has to handle Lee dying. Ben getting eaten alive in front of him. His second replacement wife in which he was finally finding love again die leaving him cold and hopeless again. Getting his damn orbital bone smashed in by Carver until his eye was fucking tomato sauce. And ultimately either dying or sacraficing his life for Clem depending on which ending you pick.
Now that's a hardcore fuck.
Besides the question isn't "did Kenny suffer the most" it's "is kenny tough" and I think you'd be on pyschadelic shrooms if you'd say the man isn't tough. I'd agree that we all look down on him but you'd be no better in said circumstance and would most likely fold. Kenny was a brave hero and put his best foot forward for the betterment of Clem.
Was it just him fighting that entire russian gang, the cannibals, herds of walkers, and Carver's gang though? No. If He's tough for assisting others, then everyone who he helped is equally as tough as he is. Also, he didn't beat any of the cannibals. He got shot in the gut and was useless. Lee's the one who did all the work.
And an entire gang of Russian bandits, some cannibals, a herd of walkers, Mike, and Carver's gang. But yeah let's ignore all that for the sake of being a Kenny hater.
Just saying he doesnt have to die or sacrifice he could still be alive if stayed in wellington i mean theres a six year period between when clem last sees him at wellington and reuniting with lilly , i mean his fate is up in the air cause i know he wouldnt of died in the crash offscreen cause the difference between s3 jane and kenny deaths are jane wouldve died anyway cause clem doesnt influence her death while kennys death is caused by clem with her inability to drive so i know kennys at least alive around the events of anf but im not sure bout s4 but in my opion i like to think he still alive cause people say nate eddie mike arvo could return yous all forget yes kennys determinant but his wellington leaves him in a better position than any of the other missing characters cause he actually protected and saved someone he loved likely giving him hope while if you abandon him at the rest stop its different cause he drew you away which would change him , i doubt he wouldve killed himself but i reckon he wouldve went "morgan clear" mode and likely went crazy but in the wellington path i think hes in a better state of mind
No, that was planned. If you don't side with Kenny in the meat locker, Lee has has the dialogue "you talk a big game, but could you do the hard thing if it came to kat and duck?"
kenny says "it's never gonna come to that. Not if I have anything to say about it."
pretty sure that was intentionally arrogant. Episode 3 is punishing him for it
Essentially. He's sorta there to have and become what Lee doesn't.
Though given Episode 3's slide, I kinda have to wonder if the hypocrisy was a later affect.
I meant more that Larry's death in itself was already decided on and Duck's was conceptualized later, hence part of why he shows up on Episode 3's menu card.
No, that was planned. If you don't side with Kenny in the meat locker, Lee has has the dialogue "you talk a big game, but could you do the h… moreard thing if it came to kat and duck?"
kenny says "it's never gonna come to that. Not if I have anything to say about it."
pretty sure that was intentionally arrogant. Episode 3 is punishing him for it
We've never heard anything about Duck's death IIRC, I'd say it's possible the title card is just supposed to throw you off because it's literally the opposite of what happens
(title card = weee we're having fun riding a train, we just hit a zombie lol)
(game = everyone on the train is depressed and half the group just died)
I meant more that Larry's death in itself was already decided on and Duck's was conceptualized later, hence part of why he shows up on Episode 3's menu card.
We've never heard anything about Duck's death IIRC, I'd say it's possible the title card is just supposed to throw you off because it's lite… morerally the opposite of what happens
(title card = weee we're having fun riding a train, we just hit a zombie lol)
(game = everyone on the train is depressed and half the group just died)
Of course, like I said once before I always speculated that Duck would die the way that the stranger's son did, on a botched hunting trip to "make him a man" or something like that.
Of course, like I said once before I always speculated that Duck would die the way that the stranger's son did, on a botched hunting trip to "make him a man" or something like that.
Comments
We know Kenny is a dick to her.
I only remember Kenny being a dick to Clem in s1 ep3 when they are getting on the train
To be honest, Clementine seemed to have a good opinion of basically everyone in S1. About the only exception would be Larry, for obvious reasons. Given that most of the shitty things Kenny can do/say to Lee are things that happen when Clementine isn't around to see them, I'd go out on a limb and guess that she probably thought Kenny was a nice enough dude.
He doesn't ASK for sympathy. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Kenny THINKS he can get away with shit just because he lost people when in reality EVERYONE has lost people. Yes, losing a wife and child is traumatic, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like shit, just because they have a different opinion to you.
What's wrong with Kenny is that he thinks his opinion is fact and if you made ONE mistake, then he'll be a dick to you later on. I did a play through where I tried to only get Kenny and Ben to come with me at the end of episode 4. I saw it in let's plays, so I knew it was possible. Did everything for Kenny. The only thing that I was aware of not doing in his favour was dropping Ben (obviously). He refused to come. When I got to the end of the season, I looked at all the character bios things (whatever they're called) and I realised what Kenny was so pissed off with me about. I saved Doug, meaning that I couldn't tell Kenny about my past. Now, I understand why Kenny would be pissed off with Lee, but what got me was the fact that Kenny was willing to let a little girl die. Clementine has NOTHING to do with Lee's past, so why should that even matter? That's when I realised how petty Kenny was.
Like I said before, I don't HATE Kenny, he just irritates me and there's certainly many characters who are worse than him, but what I am fed up with is people defending every bad thing he has done. Yes, Kenny has done good things, but those don't cover up the bad things he's done and vise versa. He can be your favourite character, but you got to admit it, the guy has flaws. My favourite characters (besides from Lee and Clem) are Violet, Louis, Ruby, Tenn, Ben and Molly. I know they're not perfect, I even make fun of their flaws sometimes. Every character has flaws, some have more than others, but they still got them. Sometimes, I hate the Kenny fan-base because they see him as some form of God, when he's just like everyone else, a human being trying his best.
I have read what you have posted and that’s fine. I respect your opinion. I would like you to know that i am fully aware of his faults and i can see why he gets on your nerves and i myself don’t agree on everything he says or does but i do however always respect and understand the reasons behind his actions and i am not one of these sensitively people who hold grudges against him even worse than Kenny himself.
I would like to reply to a few things you said though:
He doesn’t THINK he can get away with anything at all though either! He never once implied that because his family died that he can do what he wants, that is just how he is in general. The problem with people who dislike Kenny is that they blame him for everything and they hate the fact he speaks his mind. He’s honest about his feelings and he’ll tell you when he doesn’t agree with you or if someone’s opinions/choices are shit. I respect that. Yeah he may be a dick towards you but again he’s being honest. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m serious! If people get so butthurt by his insulting remarks they need to grow a pair. People who are nice as pie and nod/agree to every decision without question all the time, those are the people you shouldn’t trust in a zombie apocalypse. I’d also like to point out that some people forget that Kenny saved Lee’s life after Larry knocked him down, if i was Lee i would always have his back for saving me. So imagine from Kenny’s POV that Lee goes against him later on, that gives Kenny the impression that this guy was a prick who wasn't even truly appreciative of having his life saved after what Larry did? "I had your back after Larry left you, will you have mine now that we are in danger in this meat locker? Oh you won't? Fuck you then, last time i save your ass". Sure this can be seen as disloyal but can you blame him? I can’t. So sometimes i do feel the way Kenny treats you is completely fair and understandable.
True but the way i see it, trust is the most important thing in a zombie apocalypse, if someone betrays your trust even once, i’d be pissed too. You can call it petty but it’s not normal day to day life anymore and everyone should have each other’s backs.
I will however admit that I would have preferred the writers to have made him a bit less of an asshole at times only because i don’t agree with the amount of hate he gets.
He refused to come because you needed to remind him about family. He’s a hotheaded guy who doesn’t always think things through. Once reminding him about family, Kenny remembered what Lee had done for his family, he happily comes with you. It’s not a case of willing to let a little girl die, especially when everyone assumed she had been taken by Vernon who they would have at least thought wouldn’t have hurt her. Kenny was more focused on his beef with Lee to think logically about anything else, besides he goes with you no matter what after Lee returns from Vernon’s when they get holed up in the house and seems hellbent on making amends. If he stayed behind with the boat he still says he’ll wait for him to get back with Clem to get the boat out on the water.
I’m sorry if it sounds like i am always defending him, i see your point on a number of things and i know he has done bad things but so has everyone else. I’m just giving some insight onto why he is the way he is. I am glad you acknowledge the good things about him too.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. I don’t really want to spend day after day debating it. Thanks for reading.
Oh what? In one scene when he tells her to get on the train aggressively? You know during the time he was grieving over his dying son?
Or when he decided to murder Larry in front of her...or the number of times he cussed up a storm in front of her.
Lee says to find Omid and Christa, and she doesn't even ask "what happened to kenny"
As I've said before, Kenny only has 3 interactions with Clem in the S1 that I've seen.
When they first meet at hershel's barn, when he tells clem to go through the vent at the St John's, and when he tells clem to get on the train.
only the first one was somewhat positive
Actions like when Kenny smashed Larry's head in with Clementine like five feet away?
Yeah, I'm sure.
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open your eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned about someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
I’m just going to literally copy and paste what i said a second ago:
“Killing” Larry was necessary to keep her and everyone safe, open your eyes to the reality of the situation instead of being more concerned about someone’s feelings. She needed to grow up and see that certain things need to be done to survive in the apocalypse, plus she looked away anyway and what he did wasn’t being a dick to her personally nor deliberately and the times he “cussed up a storm” were not directed AT her either so stop flapping your gums with your usual erroneous, begrudging just because it’s Kenny.
Clem did not once say or imply that she “looked down” on anything Kenny did, she even says to Lee right at the end of the game that she understood what happened to Larry needed to be done
There is also an interaction in Crawford when Kenny and Brie return with the fuel, Clem says “you’re back” and he responds with “yeah we did pretty good” or words to that effect. So add that to the list
Listen I know he is your perfect man and that you envision riding a unicorn with him...but do please stop with the blind loyalty...other than the time he was wallowing in despair about Duck ...he really had nothing to do with Clem...plus my main issues with him is his treatment of people who dare disagree with him and his beating of an unarmed prisoner and turning the entire group against him. As I have said before...Kenny had a great arc in S1...he should not have been brought back because it basically ruins it. S2 he was a major fuckup and it hurt the story big time by having him in it.
You know what they say about reckoning
Doubt you’ll read all this but oh well here it is:
I will when you stop with the blind hatred and pointing out every single fault he has without ever acknowledging the good things about him or at least just saying one positive thing about the character and meaning it! If you weren’t so one sided then I wouldn’t actually have a problem with you. At least people like BetterToSleep, DabigRG dislike him but don’t say such vile things about him and they have often admitted the good things he’s said or done in the past.
I have always been aware of his flaws, temper tantrums etc but I understand the reasons for them and yet i don’t always agree with him like wanting me to drop Ben or finding Wellington without knowing exactly where it is, just to name a few. He’s no saint but neither are any of us. I just don’t agree with constant hate for someone who doesn’t deserve it every single time his name is brought up.
Kenny and Clem’s friendship was always through his son. Clem had Lee in Season 1. There was a 3 month time gap that we didn’t see any possible bonding between Kenny and Clem but it’s clearly obvious that the family loved her so we can assume he had something to do with her. It’s kind of irrelevant because you know i didn’t write Season 1 and 2 to be how it was between the 2 characters. There are people i work with who i don’t always talk to but i like and respect them so Kenny and Clem can be the same.
He’s honest, speaks his mind and tells you to your face when he disagrees and i do not see anything wrong with that but the reason you hate him is just because he is a bit of a mean, rude guy in the way he comes across when he disagrees. Big fucking deal, be less sensitive and man up! Just because everyone else smiles and nods to every decision like some yes-man puppet, and afraid to speak up to avoid hurting others feelings doesn’t make them better. In a zombie apocalypse those are the sorts of people you shouldn’t trust. Try and see where I’m coming from for a change. Half the time he has those “rude” moments, he often doesn’t mean it and calms down later on. You should know this by now.
Arvo was part of a group who had tried to rob and kill everyone and you think everyone should hold hands with Arvo, sing songs and skip happily with him like he’s suddenly their best friend? You’re as bad as Bonnie and Mike for the unrealistic defence of that little shit if so. If someone had tried to kill me or was part of a group that were, do you think i’d sit by and be calm around him and treat him nice? No. I would be very cautious of him. Now i am man enough to admit that beating him up was unneeded and wasn’t helping the situation but we all know he has a short temper and saying “fuck you” to him was not exactly a smart thing to do was it? He always had a reason and didn’t just hit him for no reason. I also judge that scene as Kenny letting out mounds of frustration for the situation they were all in and the past shit that occurred to him, the fact Luke died he (believe it or not) showed that he was upset about it and he jumped to conclusions of Arvo having no supplies before Jane walked in with them. He makes mistakes, i admit his flaws but i have “blind loyalty” right? I’m just a very forgiving person and in real life too i guess. I don’t think that makes me bad.
As for turning the group against him, fuck all of them! He never asked to be part of their group. He was dragged away from a settled lodge when he was finally happy again with his new girlfriend, forced into hard labour, got his eye bashed in and lost yet another person he loved in his life. He didn’t have to stay but he did. Helped a pregnant woman deliver her baby, became the surrogate father of that kid when he didn’t have to but he did because he actually does have good heart deep down, fixed up a truck for the whole group who weren’t grateful for it. Mike and Bonnie deciding to leave because of Kenny makes me laugh when they should know by then that Kenny is only dangerous to those that threaten his family which Carver and Arvo clearly did. He was never going to “hurt” them the way he did Arvo. Of course i can see people like you thinking otherwise but that doesn’t surprise me when you never see the bigger picture.
So yeah fuck that group who are nothing but cowards and ungrateful whenever the going gets tough.
Well that’s your opinion and I of course disagree. I think without Kenny, the story would have been worse and boring. The writing wouldn’t have changed much, a few swapped roles here and there. Kenny brought drama and for most people, S1 nostalgia which was clearly Telltale’s plan from the start. I do partially agree though that Telltale ruined his character in Episodes 4-5 by making him ridiculously over the top and more violent which i felt was too out of character and sadly made more people hate him which is my biggest issue.
Good day! Always a pleasure ?
He didn't spare clem any consideration in that scene though.
I’ll repeat myself again but slightly rephrase it:
You really need to actually put yourself in that meat locker and truly imagine being in there.
He considered Clem’s safety/life over her feelings but tell me Louche, what’s more important? Saving lives or worrying about someone’s feelings of the outcome?
“Now i kill someone before it puts your little girl in danger” is the entire line said in that scene if you stay silent. Clementine even tells Lee right at the end of the game in the jewellery store that she understood about the situation with Larry because her and Lee were trapped in the store knowing he would soon turn and couldn’t let themselves be trapped. It’s exactly the same situation, only difference is that Lee had a bit more time to make sure Clem was safe from him when he turns.
The point here is that you’re claiming that Clem “looked down” on Kenny when that clearly isn’t true as Clem doesn’t have a bad word to say about anyone in this game except for Larry himself and that’s a fact.
he also says to clementine "do it, just do it" when she's holding a gun to him
also why do people still care about Kenny, get over yourselfs
Could say the same about Kenny haters. Get over yourselves and hate something worth hating
Both Sides Are Wrong.
I'm hating it because I see people moaning about it all the time, i'll get over it when it stops being shoved in my face
Well hate to break it to you but it’s been like that round here for over 5 years. It won’t change
No, but we should get over Lee. That guys been in Clem life for only 3 months out of the past 7/8 years, how is he still relevant?
Because he had the most impact on her.
I didn’t like her much but Christa should get some love too
I dunno, to me the whole meat locker scene was mainly to show how Kenny was a hypocrite when it came to putting down Duck in the next episode.
Essentially. He's sorta there to have and become what Lee doesn't.
Though given Episode 3's slide, I kinda have to wonder if the hypocrisy was a later affect.
And an entire gang of Russian bandits, some cannibals, a herd of walkers, Mike, and Carver's gang. But yeah let's ignore all that for the sake of being a Kenny hater.
Aside from maybe Mike and the herd, most of those weren't really fights in the basic sense.
Like TheFlyOnTheWall said. Everyone has suffered but everyone has suffered to different extents. Not one character in any walking dead has suffered as much as S2 Kenny. Not even close. Physically and mentally. Jane took her own life and she didn't go through an 8th of what the man went through.
Lee was pretty close. Current day Clem is pretty close. But Kenny literally had his wife blow her brains out in front of him moments after putting his own son out old yeller style. He then carries that on his shoulders for the rest of his life. Has to handle Lee dying. Ben getting eaten alive in front of him. His second replacement wife in which he was finally finding love again die leaving him cold and hopeless again. Getting his damn orbital bone smashed in by Carver until his eye was fucking tomato sauce. And ultimately either dying or sacraficing his life for Clem depending on which ending you pick.
Now that's a hardcore fuck.
Besides the question isn't "did Kenny suffer the most" it's "is kenny tough" and I think you'd be on pyschadelic shrooms if you'd say the man isn't tough. I'd agree that we all look down on him but you'd be no better in said circumstance and would most likely fold. Kenny was a brave hero and put his best foot forward for the betterment of Clem.
Was it just him fighting that entire russian gang, the cannibals, herds of walkers, and Carver's gang though? No. If He's tough for assisting others, then everyone who he helped is equally as tough as he is. Also, he didn't beat any of the cannibals. He got shot in the gut and was useless. Lee's the one who did all the work.
Just saying he doesnt have to die or sacrifice he could still be alive if stayed in wellington i mean theres a six year period between when clem last sees him at wellington and reuniting with lilly , i mean his fate is up in the air cause i know he wouldnt of died in the crash offscreen cause the difference between s3 jane and kenny deaths are jane wouldve died anyway cause clem doesnt influence her death while kennys death is caused by clem with her inability to drive so i know kennys at least alive around the events of anf but im not sure bout s4 but in my opion i like to think he still alive cause people say nate eddie mike arvo could return yous all forget yes kennys determinant but his wellington leaves him in a better position than any of the other missing characters cause he actually protected and saved someone he loved likely giving him hope while if you abandon him at the rest stop its different cause he drew you away which would change him , i doubt he wouldve killed himself but i reckon he wouldve went "morgan clear" mode and likely went crazy but in the wellington path i think hes in a better state of mind
No, that was planned. If you don't side with Kenny in the meat locker, Lee has has the dialogue "you talk a big game, but could you do the hard thing if it came to kat and duck?"
kenny says "it's never gonna come to that. Not if I have anything to say about it."
pretty sure that was intentionally arrogant. Episode 3 is punishing him for it
I meant more that Larry's death in itself was already decided on and Duck's was conceptualized later, hence part of why he shows up on Episode 3's menu card.
We've never heard anything about Duck's death IIRC, I'd say it's possible the title card is just supposed to throw you off because it's literally the opposite of what happens
(title card = weee we're having fun riding a train, we just hit a zombie lol)
(game = everyone on the train is depressed and half the group just died)
That's fair.
Just speculating on how these things actually get put together in development chronologically.
Of course, like I said once before I always speculated that Duck would die the way that the stranger's son did, on a botched hunting trip to "make him a man" or something like that.
Huh. That's an interesting [original] thought.
Wonder if there's any actual credence to that.