They are constantly explaining how bad things are "out there". Abel talks all about it when he's being tortured. I mean, doesn't that explai… moren why Lilly is doing what she's doing? At some point she aligned with the Delta, it's a good community with good people, they have food, walls, blah blah. Then they start getting attacked. Things are bad, they have to fight, they need people to fight for them. She's justifying taking kids to fight, she doesn't see herself as pure evil, she's recruiting, giving these kids a better life in exchange for their help fighting. I mean, even in season one she was all about doing the hard thing for the right reason. She rationed food and everyone hated her, but it had to be done. They needed soldiers, so she 'recruits' kids. She hasn't gone full evil in my opinion, she's justifying the means for the end.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when you remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
Back to Abel and the people Delta are fighting. This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids. You're given no reason to feel they have any justification because what they do is just so simply wrong and no where close to right.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thinks the kids they took cant even fight and were too stupid to learn how to, so again, why the fuck do they want the kids? She also wants to kill James. Over and over, everything just keeps conflicting with their motives.
And in the end of it all saying "the other group bad" still really isnt enough. Its one thing to "justify taking kids" but they dont do that. She takes kids and then tortures them. Theres no moral gray area or "oh man she has to do this for her group" she just does it to be evil, and its poorly done.
They are constantly explaining how bad things are "out there". Abel talks all about it when he's being tortured. I mean, doesn't that explai… moren why Lilly is doing what she's doing? At some point she aligned with the Delta, it's a good community with good people, they have food, walls, blah blah. Then they start getting attacked. Things are bad, they have to fight, they need people to fight for them. She's justifying taking kids to fight, she doesn't see herself as pure evil, she's recruiting, giving these kids a better life in exchange for their help fighting. I mean, even in season one she was all about doing the hard thing for the right reason. She rationed food and everyone hated her, but it had to be done. They needed soldiers, so she 'recruits' kids. She hasn't gone full evil in my opinion, she's justifying the means for the end.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Uh...excuse me? Just because you don't like the direction her character has gone, doesn't make it poor writing. Besides Kmudle stated already that Lilly isn't the actual leader of the Delta. She may have just been following orders from someone else whom we haven't seen yet. Regardless of how you feel about her, I think Lilly is at least a better Villain than Joan was.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when you remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
We haven't even seen the other group yet. Maybe the Delta are fighting cannibals, maybe Abel was exaggerating. Hell, the other group might actually be GOOD and Abel was flat-out LYING to Clem's face. We don't know what the other group is like and probably won't find out til the Final Episode is out.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when y… moreou remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
Back to Abel and the people Delta are fighting. This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids. You're given no reason to feel they have any justification because what they do is just so simply wrong and no where close to right.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thin… [view original content]
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thinks the kids they took cant even fight and were too stupid to learn how to, so again, why the fuck do they want the kids? She also wants to kill James. Over and over, everything just keeps conflicting with their motives.
The thing you forget is that Lilly didn't expect the kids to defend themselves the way they do. They didn't breach through Ericsons' gates expecting to loose people. They thought it'd be a fast raid, but thanks to Clementine everything turned to shit for the raiders. Now the Delta wanted to go away as fast as possible with the kids they managed to grab.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when y… moreou remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
Back to Abel and the people Delta are fighting. This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids. You're given no reason to feel they have any justification because what they do is just so simply wrong and no where close to right.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thin… [view original content]
I feel like you have to be a child or a teen yourself to even remotely be amused by the "romance" in this game. And there actually is a cons… moreiderable amount of kids and teens that play this game (just solely going off the demographic survey on the subreddit) which is weird considering this is an M-rated series but I digress.
As a grown man, there's just nothing appealing about apocalyptic teen romance. I'm just not the target audience for this silly stuff.
I know people say it's 100 percent optional and you can ignore it, but the characters themselves **still **force their unrequited bullshit onto Clementine no matter what, like right up until the ending of Episode 2.
I also do feel this season was more marketed towards teens. It's weird to be against that, but it IS possible to have a story written around teens and not have this sense of pg-13 pandering seep through the narrative.
I think this might be the only time I'll ever agree with you.
Episode 1 was SUPER dark. It actually felt like a good continuation of S1… more's and S2's darkness. It felt like I was playing a proper TWD game. The episode reels you in with the fake optimistic Peter Pan bullshit but takes you out at the end with the good old "humans must suffer" mantra that is typical in TWD and other zombie narratives.
But I don't get that same feeling in EP2 and EP3 for some reason. Apart from Louis' tongue of course.
The central theme of this season is finding a place Clementine can call "home". That's it.
I just feel like this game is targetting a younger audience,it's too lighthearted
Like I said, the theme is finding a place to call "home". The scenes you call lighthearted, and they are without a doubt, are scenes that help build the wholesome environment to really make you believe this is a place worth staying. Clem is tired of moving. Tired of losing groups. She just wants to find a place where she and AJ can be happy. If it wasn't lighthearted, it wouldn't be a place worth staying, would it?
Season 1 didn't focus only on Carley and Doug it also focused on other characters like Kenny Larry or even Lilly.
I disagree completely. Louis and Violet are a primary focus, yes, but that doesn't discount Marlon's character. AJ's character. To a lesser extent, Tenn's character. Brody's brief characterization, who had "dark horse" potential as a strong living character in TFS had she not been written for death from the start. Louis and Violet share majority of the screen time, but other characters have made their mark as well. Just like Kenny took majority of the screen time, but other characters made their mark. So no, I don't believe it's only the "Louis & Violet Show". I think these other characters have enough personality and characterization to them put their stamp on the season.
Did they really needed to add romances in this game ? Did they really needed to make James the loner whisperer gay ? What about Aasim having a crush on Ruby out of nowhere in episode 2 ?
Why not? Is James being gay or saying it really that big an issue? That sounds more like a nitpick. They don't even emphasize it. I don't see the big deal. It's just treated as a fun fact and nothing greater. Same with Aasim's crush on Ruby. It's not emphasized enough to make a big deal out of it. It's just there to show that he isn't only about survival like "Done Running" suggested. At the end of the day, he's a kid too and he can have fun.
I miss how dark and depressing season 2 could be sometimes,i miss adults interactions,
We had 3 seasons of that, 2 of which were immensely annoying, what with the constant bickering, dick measuring, and immature behavior. To the point where an 11 year old girl was often more rational and mature than a majority of the group was. I love what we have now. Could there have been one or 2 adults at the school? Yeah, I guess. But I could do without it all the same.
i'm not even gonna talk about Lilly
I know how you feel, you know how I feel.
Overall,this season is just..Pretty forgettable,there's nothing really memorable,
I can pull a lot of memorable moments out of this season.
I don't think dialogue has anything to do with it. There are just far less Walker/Raider encounter in the game compared to the other seasons.
This season takes place in pretty much one location with the same set of characters. It goes without saying that because of that, the game feels less "dark" even though I think that this season is pretty fucking dark, just not the in your face kind of dark but more in its themes.
This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids.
Honestly, that's not really the issue.
It's the fact that Lilith's motivations, actions, and even her occasional thoughts don't mesh--the writing of this incarnation in and of itself is just confused as all fuck regarding what it even wants to BE. And not even the "good" kind of confused, which wouldn't really fly in this case anyway.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when y… moreou remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
Back to Abel and the people Delta are fighting. This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids. You're given no reason to feel they have any justification because what they do is just so simply wrong and no where close to right.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thin… [view original content]
Its a mix of pretty much everything. What Lilly does gives no justification for why they are the lesser evil, and everything Lilly does always seem to conflict with what she claims she is doing.
This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even th… moreink of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids.
Honestly, that's not really the issue.
It's the fact that Lilith's motivations, actions, and even her occasional thoughts don't mesh--the writing of this incarnation in and of itself is just confused as all fuck regarding what it even wants to BE. And not even the "good" kind of confused, which wouldn't really fly in this case anyway.
"Uh...excuse me? Just because you don't like the direction her character has gone, doesn't make it poor writing."
So basally if they brought Lee back as a cyborg that kills everyone in episode 4 we have to accept it as good because we just dont like the direction they took his character, and it is 100% not bad writing. Got ya.
I can also guarantee we wont see the group the Delta is fighting. And if they do, they will pull a twist that Christa is the leader.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Uh...excuse me? Just because you don't like the direction her character has go… morene, doesn't make it poor writing. Besides Kmudle stated already that Lilly isn't the actual leader of the Delta. She may have just been following orders from someone else whom we haven't seen yet. Regardless of how you feel about her, I think Lilly is at least a better Villain than Joan was.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when you remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
We haven't even seen the other group yet. Maybe the Delta are fighting cannibals, maybe Abel was exaggerating. Hell, the other group might actually be GOOD and Abel was flat-out LYING to Clem's face. We don't know what the other group is like and probably won't find out til the Final Episode is out.
They should have already been aware they would fight back considering Clem could have already almost killed Abel and they tried to shoot them in the forest. Also we're going to have to assume they've taken more kids from other places, which would have adults, thus fighting back. It would be incredibly unrealistic for them to steal 2 kids and just 2 kids ever, then go back to take 3 more and never took kids from a different place which like I said, would have adults. If they are truly in some fucking war that desperately needs soldiers, that is a super fucking low amount to bring back, who they will then need to convince to actually fight for them in the mist of their war, and they are already wasting fucking 10 people to take that boat to get these 3 children. The whole plot is nonsense.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't wor… moreth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thinks the kids they took cant even fight and were too stupid to learn how to, so again, why the fuck do they want the kids? She also wants to kill James. Over and over, everything just keeps conflicting with their motives.
The thing you forget is that Lilly didn't expect the kids to defend themselves the way they do. They didn't breach through Ericsons' gates expecting to loose people. They thought it'd be a fast raid, but thanks to Clementine everything turned to shit for the raiders. Now the Delta wanted to go away as fast as possible with the kids they managed to grab.
How could they have known that Clementine was an expert in defence? They probably thought that they may need to force the kids in some way, but they didn't expect it to become such a messy massacre.
Lilly also knew that they can defend themselves in some way hence her bringing most of her team armed. The thing they absolutely didn't saw coming was Clementine's defence ability. The Delta hoped to resolve everything as non-lethal as possible, but that didn't happen because of Clementine.
I also wouldn't criticize the writing because Lilly underastimated the kids' ability to defend themselves. People making mistakes is not bad writing or a plot hole.
They should have already been aware they would fight back considering Clem could have already almost killed Abel and they tried to shoot the… morem in the forest. Also we're going to have to assume they've taken more kids from other places, which would have adults, thus fighting back. It would be incredibly unrealistic for them to steal 2 kids and just 2 kids ever, then go back to take 3 more and never took kids from a different place which like I said, would have adults. If they are truly in some fucking war that desperately needs soldiers, that is a super fucking low amount to bring back, who they will then need to convince to actually fight for them in the mist of their war, and they are already wasting fucking 10 people to take that boat to get these 3 children. The whole plot is nonsense.
The problem isnt so much about Lilly underestimating them, I dont really care much as it works out fine, but Im pointing out how all they seem to say about the kids is "they so STOOPID" and saying how she thought they were unable at fighting at all, yet for some reason wants them to fight for her and going through all this trouble just for 3 kids.
Again, the whole kidnapping kids plot line makes no sense when you notice how little they gain out of it and how many resources they waste. 10 person crew goes to steal 3 kids. 3 kids. They make 10 adults leave the fight, to get back 3 kids who are going to resit fighting with them in the first place, and would then need training in how to fight. How is any of this kidnapping kid plot productive for the Delta? Oh wait it isnt, its just a plot device thats poorly developed.
How could they have known that Clementine was an expert in defence? They probably thought that they may need to force the kids in some way, … morebut they didn't expect it to become such a messy massacre.
Lilly also knew that they can defend themselves in some way hence her bringing most of her team armed. The thing they absolutely didn't saw coming was Clementine's defence ability. The Delta hoped to resolve everything as non-lethal as possible, but that didn't happen because of Clementine.
I also wouldn't criticize the writing because Lilly underastimated the kids' ability to defend themselves. People making mistakes is not bad writing or a plot hole.
The problem isnt so much about Lilly underestimating them, I dont really care much as it works out fine, but Im pointing out how all they se… moreem to say about the kids is "they so STOOPID" and saying how she thought they were unable at fighting at all, yet for some reason wants them to fight for her and going through all this trouble just for 3 kids.
Again, the whole kidnapping kids plot line makes no sense when you notice how little they gain out of it and how many resources they waste. 10 person crew goes to steal 3 kids. 3 kids. They make 10 adults leave the fight, to get back 3 kids who are going to resit fighting with them in the first place, and would then need training in how to fight. How is any of this kidnapping kid plot productive for the Delta? Oh wait it isnt, its just a plot device thats poorly developed.
I think of them as explanations not excuses. People are just curious, and want to know more about the intent of characters doing certain things like Lilly for example. The explanations may not be enough for you, but they are official word from one of the big names of the Dev Team in Kent Mudle, so I am willing to believe anything and everything put in to the game has a purpose that may not make much sense to us players, but from someone who works on the games and oversees the development of it, it may make perfect sense. But, like all games, not everyone will be satisfied with the explanations given, even if the explanations were decent, not everyone agrees on it, but that to me doesn't suggest that the writing is poor or lacking. We as the player view the games we play differently than the creative minds that develop the games
Yeah I'm getting really tired with K Mundle and devs like him giving out excuses for writing and characterization that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME… more if they're meant to be in the game (because they're clearly not). Why the fuck should people have to ask you questions on tumblr to get deeper insight that has no relevance or evidence in the actual game?
It is heavily implied that the war they're having isn't one that's over quick. They already took Minerva and Sophie a year prior and they taught them how to use guns. The war lasts at least a year. They loose people, they need new ones. They'll train them if they have to, they just need more people.
And Abel criticizing this strategy also means that this operation isn't done because Lilly or Abel want to do it. They just have to. He even said that they don't like to do raids like this.
This whole operation isn't planned or structured or even remotely planned for. This whole operation is a desperate attempt to keep up with the war. Losing some men for three kids obviously isn't a great trade for the raiders and they know it hence Lilly's overly aggressive tone on the ship.
I don't think this season is perfect, really, and I actually don't want to defend it to this extend, but I feel like there is some sort of agenda going on against this season for some reason right know. I totally get some of the criticism, but others feel just like straight out of a gaming sins video.
The problem isnt so much about Lilly underestimating them, I dont really care much as it works out fine, but Im pointing out how all they se… moreem to say about the kids is "they so STOOPID" and saying how she thought they were unable at fighting at all, yet for some reason wants them to fight for her and going through all this trouble just for 3 kids.
Again, the whole kidnapping kids plot line makes no sense when you notice how little they gain out of it and how many resources they waste. 10 person crew goes to steal 3 kids. 3 kids. They make 10 adults leave the fight, to get back 3 kids who are going to resit fighting with them in the first place, and would then need training in how to fight. How is any of this kidnapping kid plot productive for the Delta? Oh wait it isnt, its just a plot device thats poorly developed.
I do agree to some extent as far as Lilly's character missing the mark in the Final Season. She was fine in her first appearance. She's even fine as the Season antagonist. Where it all goes a bit wonky is by formatting any version of a mustache twirling villain.
We're told they have a thriving community that's under siege. We're told they are in such desperate need of people to help protect their society that they have to kidnap and train kids for war.
We're shown 8 people on a river boat that torture kids in small cages, and for some off reason brain washed one to the effect that they believed killing their sister was the only way to return to them. If the 'enemy camp' that was so much worse than they supposively are had been the reason Sophie died, or was mutilated ect it would have at least fit.
It's not really Lilly that's the issue, or the lack of information we're given. It's the contradictory nature of what little information we're given that makes the whole situation difficult to become immersed in.
In some ways, I wish Skybound had taken some liberties with the two episodes they had left of The Final Season. But it would've taken longer, cost them more while they continued to lose money just to give us what a different company owed.
This. 100% this. People always have questions about the development of certain plot points and characters. From casual fans to the analysts. That’s the point of communication with the artist: To explore their view and what went through their heads when coming up with certain story details. People don’t have to agree, but it shouldn’t be treated as an excuse just cause the development isn’t preferred or expanded to a certain degree. A person wanted insight on a particular view of Lily this season and that’s exactly what they got: Insight to the mindset of Lily. You don’t have to agree with it. But it’s not an excuse.
I think of them as explanations not excuses. People are just curious, and want to know more about the intent of characters doing certain thi… morengs like Lilly for example. The explanations may not be enough for you, but they are official word from one of the big names of the Dev Team in Kent Mudle, so I am willing to believe anything and everything put in to the game has a purpose that may not make much sense to us players, but from someone who works on the games and oversees the development of it, it may make perfect sense. But, like all games, not everyone will be satisfied with the explanations given, even if the explanations were decent, not everyone agrees on it, but that to me doesn't suggest that the writing is poor or lacking. We as the player view the games we play differently than the creative minds that develop the games
About Lilly turning evil,
People usually change really subtly over a long period of time.
It's not like this one thing happens and all of a sudden you're a different person.. Things eat away slowly at you.
So it's kind of hard to come up with a definite reason why Lilly is evil all of a sudden. We would probably need an entire extra season of TWD dedicated to Lilly to figure it out.
Anyway, I think it's still plausible that Lilly started out as Minerva; just another victim of the Delta. Not that it matters much.
I dont want you think I hate the season or anything, I do overall like it, but its just shaping up to be overall forgettable. Been saying this about Lilly sense episode 2, worried they will just bring her back and do nothing with her because "she is a returning character" so the writers thought they could just leave it at that. I also found the whole raiders stealing kids to be weak for a while now as well.
If we start to go into more off screen theories of "the war is taking a while" then it loses sense even more. The war cant be that bad if it takes that long for them to go "we need more people" and then they take like 3 people max while sending out 10 people to get them. The whole situation is poorly done. And again then theres the whole problem of Lilly just being evil cuz she is ect ect.
I really want episode 4 to be mind blowing and great, but episode 3 has really not set up a good finale imo. I would gladly be proven wrong and be blown away, but I just dont see them concluding Clem's story in a meaningful and memorable way. I wont even be surprised if when it does wrap up 90% of discussion will be about how the ending wasnt good.
It is heavily implied that the war they're having isn't one that's over quick. They already took Minerva and Sophie a year prior and they ta… moreught them how to use guns. The war lasts at least a year. They loose people, they need new ones. They'll train them if they have to, they just need more people.
And Abel criticizing this strategy also means that this operation isn't done because Lilly or Abel want to do it. They just have to. He even said that they don't like to do raids like this.
This whole operation isn't planned or structured or even remotely planned for. This whole operation is a desperate attempt to keep up with the war. Losing some men for three kids obviously isn't a great trade for the raiders and they know it hence Lilly's overly aggressive tone on the ship.
I don't think this season is perfect, really, and I actually don't want to defend it to this extend, but I feel like there is some sort of agenda going on against t… [view original content]
The moment you need to explain things in your story that make no sense or contradict other events and you need to write excuses outside of the actual story to correct them, you already failed at telling that part of the story.
I think of them as explanations not excuses. People are just curious, and want to know more about the intent of characters doing certain thi… morengs like Lilly for example. The explanations may not be enough for you, but they are official word from one of the big names of the Dev Team in Kent Mudle, so I am willing to believe anything and everything put in to the game has a purpose that may not make much sense to us players, but from someone who works on the games and oversees the development of it, it may make perfect sense. But, like all games, not everyone will be satisfied with the explanations given, even if the explanations were decent, not everyone agrees on it, but that to me doesn't suggest that the writing is poor or lacking. We as the player view the games we play differently than the creative minds that develop the games
I am surprised you understood what I meant, I thought I completely butchered my comment, but yeah, I do agree, there is always that sect of people that aren't satisfied, and fair enough, not everyone will like what they get, but because they don't like it, it doesn't mean that the Episode in general or its characters are bad, we view the game differently as players, what we see on screen is what we take as fact, but I think we should take into consideration the explanations given to us by the creators to explain why the events and actions within the game occurred, as they have valid reasons for what they decided to put on screen. Apologies if I butchered this comment too...
This. 100% this. People always have questions about the development of certain plot points and characters. From casual fans to the analysts.… more That’s the point of communication with the artist: To explore their view and what went through their heads when coming up with certain story details. People don’t have to agree, but it shouldn’t be treated as an excuse just cause the development isn’t preferred or expanded to a certain degree. A person wanted insight on a particular view of Lily this season and that’s exactly what they got: Insight to the mindset of Lily. You don’t have to agree with it. But it’s not an excuse.
People ask questions about anything and everything, even if they make complete sense to 99% of the playerbase. The explanations given may not satisfy everyone, as everyone perceives things differently, but it doesn't make the explanation as a whole a terrible one. I am sorry if I do not make much sense with this response
The moment you need to explain things in your story that make no sense or contradict other events and you need to write excuses outside of the actual story to correct them, you already failed at telling that part of the story.
Heres an example for why retconning and changing shit outside stories is awful. JK Rowling decided to retcon the chamber of secrets lore just so she could say wizards shat their pants back in the day. Should we now be perfectly fine with this weird ass change she made just so she could say wizards took fat dumps in their pants? No.
Same scenario for Kent Mundle doing write ins for why Lilly's character is inconstant. Just writes something to "fix it" even if its really poor. Would prefer if Kent Mundle did a better job with the actual game instead of having to fill in plot holes with weak explanations on his blog.
People ask questions about anything and everything, even if they make complete sense to 99% of the playerbase. The explanations given may no… moret satisfy everyone, as everyone perceives things differently, but it doesn't make the explanation as a whole a terrible one. I am sorry if I do not make much sense with this response
To give them some credit, they can't really put EVERYTHING in the game. There does need to be proper opportunity, relevance, and "natural" conveyance to what does go in and how.
With that said, part of the reason ANF itself sucked was indeed because about half of the AMA backstories probably could've been squeezed into the relatively streamlined story anyway.
Yeah I'm getting really tired with K Mundle and devs like him giving out excuses for writing and characterization that SHOULD BE IN THE GAME… more if they're meant to be in the game (because they're clearly not). Why the fuck should people have to ask you questions on tumblr to get deeper insight that has no relevance or evidence in the actual game?
This whole operation isn’t planned or structured or even remotely planned for.
And it shows. You have a point. The criticism of this plan comes from the lack of sense the situation makes. They’re basically losing chips and getting crumbs back in return so it’s obviously a stupid bargain.
Where the criticism comes from is the word “desperate” just sounds like an excuse to pass for this idiotic situation.
For example: The New Frontier had a bad winter and destroyed all their crops and lost a lot of people. Joan was “desperate” so she led raids against other communities in secret and stole all their supplies. Thing is, we didn’t care about her desperation because her desperation was never a focused plot point. We were just told or led to believe that she was desperate.
Same thing with the Delta. “Desperation” doesn’t count for a lot if we don’t see how they were prior to that point.
The term desperate is often used as a crutch to make you believe in a character’s plight. But if their struggle isn’t shown to us, then we can’t be expected to try to make sense of their desperate plans/behavior, much less care.
We’re the victims to their desperate attempts but as Clem said it best we “don’t give a shit about their war or their Delta”
It is heavily implied that the war they're having isn't one that's over quick. They already took Minerva and Sophie a year prior and they ta… moreught them how to use guns. The war lasts at least a year. They loose people, they need new ones. They'll train them if they have to, they just need more people.
And Abel criticizing this strategy also means that this operation isn't done because Lilly or Abel want to do it. They just have to. He even said that they don't like to do raids like this.
This whole operation isn't planned or structured or even remotely planned for. This whole operation is a desperate attempt to keep up with the war. Losing some men for three kids obviously isn't a great trade for the raiders and they know it hence Lilly's overly aggressive tone on the ship.
I don't think this season is perfect, really, and I actually don't want to defend it to this extend, but I feel like there is some sort of agenda going on against t… [view original content]
We had 3 seasons of that, 2 of which were immensely annoying, what with the constant bickering, dick measuring, and immature behavior. To the point where an 11 year old girl was often more rational and mature than a majority of the group was. I love what we have now. Could there have been one or 2 adults at the school? Yeah, I guess. But I could do without it all the same.
Thank you! I got so sick of the pointless squabbling between grown adults creating artificial drama, especially in Season Two. How is it that you have a school full of teenagers and they get along way better than 30 and 40 somethings, some of them with children of their own?
I mean you can't get any worse than:
Walter: Everybody just calm down.
Alvin: (for no reason) Hey man, YOU calm the fuck down! (Walter didn't even have an angry tone.)
Carlos: Just calm down.
Rebecca: I AM CALM! YOU CALM DOWN!
The central theme of this season is finding a place Clementine can call "home". That's it.
I just feel like this game is targetting a … moreyounger audience,it's too lighthearted
Like I said, the theme is finding a place to call "home". The scenes you call lighthearted, and they are without a doubt, are scenes that help build the wholesome environment to really make you believe this is a place worth staying. Clem is tired of moving. Tired of losing groups. She just wants to find a place where she and AJ can be happy. If it wasn't lighthearted, it wouldn't be a place worth staying, would it?
Season 1 didn't focus only on Carley and Doug it also focused on other characters like Kenny Larry or even Lilly.
I disagree completely. Louis and Violet are a primary focus, yes, but that doesn't discount Marlon's character. AJ's character. To a lesser extent, Tenn's character. Brody's brief characterization, who had "dark horse" pot… [view original content]
We had 3 seasons of that, 2 of which were immensely annoying, what with the constant bickering, dick measuring, and immature behavior. To th… moree point where an 11 year old girl was often more rational and mature than a majority of the group was. I love what we have now. Could there have been one or 2 adults at the school? Yeah, I guess. But I could do without it all the same.
Thank you! I got so sick of the pointless squabbling between grown adults creating artificial drama, especially in Season Two. How is it that you have a school full of teenagers and they get along way better than 30 and 40 somethings, some of them with children of their own?
I mean you can't get any worse than:
Walter: Everybody just calm down.
Alvin: (for no reason) Hey man, YOU calm the fuck down! (Walter didn't even have an angry tone.)
Carlos: Just calm down.
Rebecca: I AM CALM! YOU CALM DOWN!
Forgive me for being slow, but what makes Lilly's character inconsistent? Not trying to be funny or smart, but I am practically brain dead today.
Lilly went in with the intention of taking all of the kids, instead she only got 3, Minerva states that they planned on returning to gather the rest of the kids, as 3 of the kids wasn't enough, it just cut the losses they endured from raiding the school at that time. We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities, sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian, but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
Lilly is portrayed as the big bad, that is true, but her methods shouldn't come as a surprise as in The Walking Dead, there are people like Negan and The Governor who do far worse, but they do it because of the world they now inhabit, they have their reasoning for doing the things they do, as does Lilly, but the explanation given doesn't and hasn't satisfied everyone.
Just because there are people who ask about a character and what they did doesn't mean the writing is poor, not everyone picks up on things immediately, and the best source for answers is straight from the horses mouth, but whether or not the explanation is satisfactory to you or anyone else is something that only you are capable of deciding. Sorry for the unnecessarily long comment
Heres an example for why retconning and changing shit outside stories is awful. JK Rowling decided to retcon the chamber of secrets lore jus… moret so she could say wizards shat their pants back in the day. Should we now be perfectly fine with this weird ass change she made just so she could say wizards took fat dumps in their pants? No.
Same scenario for Kent Mundle doing write ins for why Lilly's character is inconstant. Just writes something to "fix it" even if its really poor. Would prefer if Kent Mundle did a better job with the actual game instead of having to fill in plot holes with weak explanations on his blog.
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb to fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Also getting a tongue cut out wont make Louis a solider. Congrats guy, this kid fighting with us cant even communicate with us lmao hope he doesnt need to call anything out
Forgive me for being slow, but what makes Lilly's character inconsistent? Not trying to be funny or smart, but I am practically brain dead t… moreoday.
Lilly went in with the intention of taking all of the kids, instead she only got 3, Minerva states that they planned on returning to gather the rest of the kids, as 3 of the kids wasn't enough, it just cut the losses they endured from raiding the school at that time. We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities, sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian, but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
Lilly is portrayed as the big bad, that is tru… [view original content]
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb to fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Even Abel said that he was worth more than "a couple of sprouts who could barely lift a gun" so I always thought that was badly written too.
Lilly: Im here to make these kids fight for me.
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb t… moreo fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Also getting a tongue cut out wont make Louis a solider. Congrats guy, this kid fighting with us cant even communicate with us lmao hope he doesnt need to call anything out
Lilly: Im here to make these kids fight for me.
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb t… moreo fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Also getting a tongue cut out wont make Louis a solider. Congrats guy, this kid fighting with us cant even communicate with us lmao hope he doesnt need to call anything out
I was planning on making this thread since Episode 2 released. I agree. I actually cared about it enough to ask my younger cousins about it when I visited them (they have the game).
In terms of Target Audience, let me preface this by saying that to be honest, I feel like Telltale's TWD was always written in such a way that kids could watch it and enjoy it. I know about the dark stuff, but I know of several people who were under 16 when they first watched/played S1. It always had this light touch, but it was so good because at times that light touch would fade away. It was a constant back-and-forth. The game was charming, and balanced equal portions of dark and amusing, all the while pulling off great characters and storylines, well Doug was done badly but apart from that the game really had an effect on me. It never seemed like the TWD show.
As for TFS, there are many culprits. People feel differently about it because there's always evidence that conflicts with a point made. You could blame it on how you're in one location all the time, you could blame it on how the writers don't get how to make the kids seem realistic, you could blame it on the dialogue, etc. Idk, it just never swayed the right way for me how there's an argument about Brick Vs Log. I feel like Creative just can't balance the characters properly. AJ and Clem's relationship seems very well done, at least in terms of character realism, and that's funny since we're talking about AJ. Their relationship gives me S1 and 2 feels. But Aasim, Willy, (no point talking about Omar) and a few more, I could even go as far as saying James, Louis and Violet, I just don't feel like the writers have put enough effort into balancing this in with Clem and AJ, because it feels like it's in a different realm, a different game. Everyone's in a relationship, don't stretch my words, and when I play this game myself I'm not in awe, which is wierd because I was with S1 and 2. It's not that I can't accept an all-child cast, but the way certain characters were implemented makes this seem more and more like a cartoon and less like a Telltale. I get it, you love Violet and Louis, and that's good for you. Hopefully we can still be friends. I just think that the romance is quite pointless. Relationships can show players that Clem is now becoming a true adult, but teen romance just sucks, I'd much prefer this game without it.
Next thing is 'Dark'. I think that, like @SavageClemmy said, Episode 1 was done near perfectly in terms of balancing the Dark and Depressing and the Lighthearted. That felt like a Walking Dead episode. Yeah I wasn't a fan of how sassy Clem got and how Tenn made it seem like a dramatic play, and how when walking in on Marlon and Brody all the Options were negative (maybe not 'you woke me up'), but at the end of that it was generally a great episode. I think that Episode 2 and 3 overdid the lighthearted, the dialogue for this season isn't very good either because the kids are like stereotypical kids or have identities that can be described with a word, like Omar the Chef, Mitch the angry bomb dude, plus they swear too much that it ruins the mood they're going for and can even make it hard to take seriously, but that's personal. Whenever something dark does happen, it doesn't really get to me, it did with Louis but that's Louis. I can still go to sleep peacefully, and very often do I think about how, if it weren't for the themes that were never truly explored (particularly the child soldiers because of all the contradictions) and all the swearing and gore, this game wouldn't be 18+. I guess it is because I'm not the biggest fan of kids-only and I'd hoped they'd be more 'knowing'. TFS isn't as easy to recommend to a grown-adult, non Telltale fan (neutral) as Season 1, because there's nothing really astonishing or worthy of merit to me unlike S1. Whenever I do recommend it I worry that they won't like it, but what happens is that they pretty much agree with my thoughts and they love AJ and Rosie.
As for how memorable this season will be, that sort of depends on the finale but my expectations auren't too high. I feel like the ending will be something some love and some don't approve of for a series finale. You can see how there were a lot of moral stuff put into this game, it really gets you thinking, sometimes it's poorly done but in general there are a lot of cool themes.
I could say a lot more but I don't think it's worth it, my feelings toward this season have already gotten across.
Because she did not expect the kids to be capable enough of defending the school, even if she didn't think they were able to defend the school, it doesn't rule out their ability to become an asset to the Delta, Violet says that either Minerva or Sophie (I can't remember which one) didn't like killing, but Minerva still managed to develop into an asset for the Delta, and wouldn't have survived unless she adapted to their rules and killed enemies of the Delta. She mutilates Louis/Violet to show actions have consequences, and like I said in my last comment, while it doesn't seem like a smart idea as they need them in good condition to fight, it doesn't completely stunt their ability to fight. Clementine can still wield a knife effectively without a finger, so while it may have been difficult for her at the start, she eventually adapted and overcame that obstacle.
As for Louis, she cut out his tongue to mentally break him, leaving him susceptible to brainwashing or to fight out of fear of facing further punishment from Lilly. Even with disabilities, there is a way for them to fight or do their part to ensure they win the war.
The Boarding School kids aren't their own people, whom they will prioritise 100% of the time than a group of kids, as long as they have people that can act as sponges for the bullets fired at their people, I do not think they care if the kids wind up dead so long as they decrease the numbers of the enemy
Lilly: Im here to make these kids fight for me.
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb t… moreo fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Also getting a tongue cut out wont make Louis a solider. Congrats guy, this kid fighting with us cant even communicate with us lmao hope he doesnt need to call anything out
Agreed upon, this season is ranging from meh to good average, but as episodes get released it’s going more downhill for me, and now i think im gonna feel it’s a meh game with a bit of it leaning to the negative side if they continue to go on this current form and rate for episode 4.
Oh yes let’s keep Lilly a one dimensional character after being one of the best developed characters back in S1 and basically begging you to hate her with her forced “bitchy dialogues” despise the bonding choices you pick in Ep2... because lilly meanie big baddie poopoo and EVERYONE hates her ?
Lol, i thought we were over the joan thing back in 304, is this ANF 2 or what?
Lilly cutting Louis's tongue was fucked up but made absolutely no sense.
They gave a specific explanation for what happened. They we… morere all told to keep quiet, Louis wouldn't stop talking, they cut his tongue out. How is that hard to understand?
It's just Lilly doing evil things because she's evil, it's pathetic.
I know it's pathetic, but it's also how the #StillNotBitten team wanted to write her character. They are grown men and women, they can write their Characters however they want. Lilly doing fucked up things isn't anything new. She killed Carley/Doug in Season 1 and determinantly stole Kenny's vehicle after the incident. What you're seeing in this season is merely a progression of what we've already seen from Lilly thus far.
Mitch's death was a complete joke, they gave him more development and killed him at the end just as he was getting good,wow amazing what a great character man.
That's really not t… [view original content]
I also like how the romance are not “forced.” in this game:
3 out of 4 “PICK LOUIS OR VI” choices adds nor contributes to the story except “what ship you’re gonna end up with.. CLOUIS OR VIOLETINE ?”, i also like how they ALWAYS end up having a crush over you no matter how many times you shut them off.
Doesn’t look like that optional to me...
I also like how they said EP2-3 are gonna be a focus on Tenn but that ended a complete lie!
I also like how they advertised for the NEW EPIC AND DEEP COMBAT SYSTEM ... Press [..] to stun, Press [..] to kill.
I also like, so far so now, and according to Kent: Javi and Richmond are safe where no dangerous threat can befall them.
Let’s forget ANF and the Garcia’s even though the “Clem not going back to Richmond” debate is a huge fucking plot hole because.... Fuck ANF! am i right? ?
Comments
You just kinda underlined why the lengths she goes to in this episode don't really work, though.
Again, this just shows how terribly written Lilly is.
Abel saying they are fighting people worst than them doesnt really mean much when you remember how they are cutting of children's body parts, which is you know, not giving these kids a better life like you claim lmao
Back to Abel and the people Delta are fighting. This was mentioned by someone in here before, but the problem with making Lilly do all this fucked up shit is, its extremely hard to even think of the Delta as the "less of 2 evils" when all you see them do is kill, mutilate, and brainwash kids. You're given no reason to feel they have any justification because what they do is just so simply wrong and no where close to right.
Plus the whole kidnapping kids plot barely works and they constantly contradict themselves. Abel even says how losing 2 grown men wasn't worth the 3 kids they took, so why are they even bothering with the risk of taking kids? Lilly says how she thinks the kids they took cant even fight and were too stupid to learn how to, so again, why the fuck do they want the kids? She also wants to kill James. Over and over, everything just keeps conflicting with their motives.
And in the end of it all saying "the other group bad" still really isnt enough. Its one thing to "justify taking kids" but they dont do that. She takes kids and then tortures them. Theres no moral gray area or "oh man she has to do this for her group" she just does it to be evil, and its poorly done.
Uh...excuse me? Just because you don't like the direction her character has gone, doesn't make it poor writing. Besides Kmudle stated already that Lilly isn't the actual leader of the Delta. She may have just been following orders from someone else whom we haven't seen yet. Regardless of how you feel about her, I think Lilly is at least a better Villain than Joan was.
We haven't even seen the other group yet. Maybe the Delta are fighting cannibals, maybe Abel was exaggerating. Hell, the other group might actually be GOOD and Abel was flat-out LYING to Clem's face. We don't know what the other group is like and probably won't find out til the Final Episode is out.
The thing you forget is that Lilly didn't expect the kids to defend themselves the way they do. They didn't breach through Ericsons' gates expecting to loose people. They thought it'd be a fast raid, but thanks to Clementine everything turned to shit for the raiders. Now the Delta wanted to go away as fast as possible with the kids they managed to grab.
I think I agree with this post the most.
again, underrated comment. It feels way too light. I think one of the main reasons is because of how the dialogue was written.
The central theme of this season is finding a place Clementine can call "home". That's it.
Like I said, the theme is finding a place to call "home". The scenes you call lighthearted, and they are without a doubt, are scenes that help build the wholesome environment to really make you believe this is a place worth staying. Clem is tired of moving. Tired of losing groups. She just wants to find a place where she and AJ can be happy. If it wasn't lighthearted, it wouldn't be a place worth staying, would it?
I disagree completely. Louis and Violet are a primary focus, yes, but that doesn't discount Marlon's character. AJ's character. To a lesser extent, Tenn's character. Brody's brief characterization, who had "dark horse" potential as a strong living character in TFS had she not been written for death from the start. Louis and Violet share majority of the screen time, but other characters have made their mark as well. Just like Kenny took majority of the screen time, but other characters made their mark. So no, I don't believe it's only the "Louis & Violet Show". I think these other characters have enough personality and characterization to them put their stamp on the season.
Why not? Is James being gay or saying it really that big an issue? That sounds more like a nitpick. They don't even emphasize it. I don't see the big deal. It's just treated as a fun fact and nothing greater. Same with Aasim's crush on Ruby. It's not emphasized enough to make a big deal out of it. It's just there to show that he isn't only about survival like "Done Running" suggested. At the end of the day, he's a kid too and he can have fun.
We had 3 seasons of that, 2 of which were immensely annoying, what with the constant bickering, dick measuring, and immature behavior. To the point where an 11 year old girl was often more rational and mature than a majority of the group was. I love what we have now. Could there have been one or 2 adults at the school? Yeah, I guess. But I could do without it all the same.
I know how you feel, you know how I feel.
I can pull a lot of memorable moments out of this season.
I don't think dialogue has anything to do with it. There are just far less Walker/Raider encounter in the game compared to the other seasons.
This season takes place in pretty much one location with the same set of characters. It goes without saying that because of that, the game feels less "dark" even though I think that this season is pretty fucking dark, just not the in your face kind of dark but more in its themes.
Honestly, that's not really the issue.
It's the fact that Lilith's motivations, actions, and even her occasional thoughts don't mesh--the writing of this incarnation in and of itself is just confused as all fuck regarding what it even wants to BE. And not even the "good" kind of confused, which wouldn't really fly in this case anyway.
Its a mix of pretty much everything. What Lilly does gives no justification for why they are the lesser evil, and everything Lilly does always seem to conflict with what she claims she is doing.
"Uh...excuse me? Just because you don't like the direction her character has gone, doesn't make it poor writing."
So basally if they brought Lee back as a cyborg that kills everyone in episode 4 we have to accept it as good because we just dont like the direction they took his character, and it is 100% not bad writing. Got ya.
I can also guarantee we wont see the group the Delta is fighting. And if they do, they will pull a twist that Christa is the leader.
They should have already been aware they would fight back considering Clem could have already almost killed Abel and they tried to shoot them in the forest. Also we're going to have to assume they've taken more kids from other places, which would have adults, thus fighting back. It would be incredibly unrealistic for them to steal 2 kids and just 2 kids ever, then go back to take 3 more and never took kids from a different place which like I said, would have adults. If they are truly in some fucking war that desperately needs soldiers, that is a super fucking low amount to bring back, who they will then need to convince to actually fight for them in the mist of their war, and they are already wasting fucking 10 people to take that boat to get these 3 children. The whole plot is nonsense.
How could they have known that Clementine was an expert in defence? They probably thought that they may need to force the kids in some way, but they didn't expect it to become such a messy massacre.
Lilly also knew that they can defend themselves in some way hence her bringing most of her team armed. The thing they absolutely didn't saw coming was Clementine's defence ability. The Delta hoped to resolve everything as non-lethal as possible, but that didn't happen because of Clementine.
I also wouldn't criticize the writing because Lilly underastimated the kids' ability to defend themselves. People making mistakes is not bad writing or a plot hole.
The problem isnt so much about Lilly underestimating them, I dont really care much as it works out fine, but Im pointing out how all they seem to say about the kids is "they so STOOPID" and saying how she thought they were unable at fighting at all, yet for some reason wants them to fight for her and going through all this trouble just for 3 kids.
Again, the whole kidnapping kids plot line makes no sense when you notice how little they gain out of it and how many resources they waste. 10 person crew goes to steal 3 kids. 3 kids. They make 10 adults leave the fight, to get back 3 kids who are going to resit fighting with them in the first place, and would then need training in how to fight. How is any of this kidnapping kid plot productive for the Delta? Oh wait it isnt, its just a plot device thats poorly developed.
This I fully agree with. Hell, didn’t Abel point out the math on this shit as well during interrogation?
I think of them as explanations not excuses. People are just curious, and want to know more about the intent of characters doing certain things like Lilly for example. The explanations may not be enough for you, but they are official word from one of the big names of the Dev Team in Kent Mudle, so I am willing to believe anything and everything put in to the game has a purpose that may not make much sense to us players, but from someone who works on the games and oversees the development of it, it may make perfect sense. But, like all games, not everyone will be satisfied with the explanations given, even if the explanations were decent, not everyone agrees on it, but that to me doesn't suggest that the writing is poor or lacking. We as the player view the games we play differently than the creative minds that develop the games
It is heavily implied that the war they're having isn't one that's over quick. They already took Minerva and Sophie a year prior and they taught them how to use guns. The war lasts at least a year. They loose people, they need new ones. They'll train them if they have to, they just need more people.
And Abel criticizing this strategy also means that this operation isn't done because Lilly or Abel want to do it. They just have to. He even said that they don't like to do raids like this.
This whole operation isn't planned or structured or even remotely planned for. This whole operation is a desperate attempt to keep up with the war. Losing some men for three kids obviously isn't a great trade for the raiders and they know it hence Lilly's overly aggressive tone on the ship.
I don't think this season is perfect, really, and I actually don't want to defend it to this extend, but I feel like there is some sort of agenda going on against this season for some reason right know. I totally get some of the criticism, but others feel just like straight out of a gaming sins video.
I do agree to some extent as far as Lilly's character missing the mark in the Final Season. She was fine in her first appearance. She's even fine as the Season antagonist. Where it all goes a bit wonky is by formatting any version of a mustache twirling villain.
We're told they have a thriving community that's under siege. We're told they are in such desperate need of people to help protect their society that they have to kidnap and train kids for war.
We're shown 8 people on a river boat that torture kids in small cages, and for some off reason brain washed one to the effect that they believed killing their sister was the only way to return to them. If the 'enemy camp' that was so much worse than they supposively are had been the reason Sophie died, or was mutilated ect it would have at least fit.
It's not really Lilly that's the issue, or the lack of information we're given. It's the contradictory nature of what little information we're given that makes the whole situation difficult to become immersed in.
In some ways, I wish Skybound had taken some liberties with the two episodes they had left of The Final Season. But it would've taken longer, cost them more while they continued to lose money just to give us what a different company owed.
This. 100% this. People always have questions about the development of certain plot points and characters. From casual fans to the analysts. That’s the point of communication with the artist: To explore their view and what went through their heads when coming up with certain story details. People don’t have to agree, but it shouldn’t be treated as an excuse just cause the development isn’t preferred or expanded to a certain degree. A person wanted insight on a particular view of Lily this season and that’s exactly what they got: Insight to the mindset of Lily. You don’t have to agree with it. But it’s not an excuse.
About Lilly turning evil,
People usually change really subtly over a long period of time.
It's not like this one thing happens and all of a sudden you're a different person.. Things eat away slowly at you.
So it's kind of hard to come up with a definite reason why Lilly is evil all of a sudden. We would probably need an entire extra season of TWD dedicated to Lilly to figure it out.
Anyway, I think it's still plausible that Lilly started out as Minerva; just another victim of the Delta. Not that it matters much.
I dont want you think I hate the season or anything, I do overall like it, but its just shaping up to be overall forgettable. Been saying this about Lilly sense episode 2, worried they will just bring her back and do nothing with her because "she is a returning character" so the writers thought they could just leave it at that. I also found the whole raiders stealing kids to be weak for a while now as well.
If we start to go into more off screen theories of "the war is taking a while" then it loses sense even more. The war cant be that bad if it takes that long for them to go "we need more people" and then they take like 3 people max while sending out 10 people to get them. The whole situation is poorly done. And again then theres the whole problem of Lilly just being evil cuz she is ect ect.
I really want episode 4 to be mind blowing and great, but episode 3 has really not set up a good finale imo. I would gladly be proven wrong and be blown away, but I just dont see them concluding Clem's story in a meaningful and memorable way. I wont even be surprised if when it does wrap up 90% of discussion will be about how the ending wasnt good.
The moment you need to explain things in your story that make no sense or contradict other events and you need to write excuses outside of the actual story to correct them, you already failed at telling that part of the story.
I am surprised you understood what I meant, I thought I completely butchered my comment, but yeah, I do agree, there is always that sect of people that aren't satisfied, and fair enough, not everyone will like what they get, but because they don't like it, it doesn't mean that the Episode in general or its characters are bad, we view the game differently as players, what we see on screen is what we take as fact, but I think we should take into consideration the explanations given to us by the creators to explain why the events and actions within the game occurred, as they have valid reasons for what they decided to put on screen. Apologies if I butchered this comment too...
People ask questions about anything and everything, even if they make complete sense to 99% of the playerbase. The explanations given may not satisfy everyone, as everyone perceives things differently, but it doesn't make the explanation as a whole a terrible one. I am sorry if I do not make much sense with this response
Heres an example for why retconning and changing shit outside stories is awful. JK Rowling decided to retcon the chamber of secrets lore just so she could say wizards shat their pants back in the day. Should we now be perfectly fine with this weird ass change she made just so she could say wizards took fat dumps in their pants? No.
Same scenario for Kent Mundle doing write ins for why Lilly's character is inconstant. Just writes something to "fix it" even if its really poor. Would prefer if Kent Mundle did a better job with the actual game instead of having to fill in plot holes with weak explanations on his blog.
To give them some credit, they can't really put EVERYTHING in the game. There does need to be proper opportunity, relevance, and "natural" conveyance to what does go in and how.
With that said, part of the reason ANF itself sucked was indeed because about half of the AMA backstories probably could've been squeezed into the relatively streamlined story anyway.
And it shows. You have a point. The criticism of this plan comes from the lack of sense the situation makes. They’re basically losing chips and getting crumbs back in return so it’s obviously a stupid bargain.
Where the criticism comes from is the word “desperate” just sounds like an excuse to pass for this idiotic situation.
For example: The New Frontier had a bad winter and destroyed all their crops and lost a lot of people. Joan was “desperate” so she led raids against other communities in secret and stole all their supplies. Thing is, we didn’t care about her desperation because her desperation was never a focused plot point. We were just told or led to believe that she was desperate.
Same thing with the Delta. “Desperation” doesn’t count for a lot if we don’t see how they were prior to that point.
The term desperate is often used as a crutch to make you believe in a character’s plight. But if their struggle isn’t shown to us, then we can’t be expected to try to make sense of their desperate plans/behavior, much less care.
We’re the victims to their desperate attempts but as Clem said it best we “don’t give a shit about their war or their Delta”
Thank you! I got so sick of the pointless squabbling between grown adults creating artificial drama, especially in Season Two. How is it that you have a school full of teenagers and they get along way better than 30 and 40 somethings, some of them with children of their own?
I mean you can't get any worse than:
You know, bringing Joan's two characterizations in helps underline the issues, oddly enough.
Kenny was the only problem. Everyone else was fine
Forgive me for being slow, but what makes Lilly's character inconsistent? Not trying to be funny or smart, but I am practically brain dead today.
Lilly went in with the intention of taking all of the kids, instead she only got 3, Minerva states that they planned on returning to gather the rest of the kids, as 3 of the kids wasn't enough, it just cut the losses they endured from raiding the school at that time. We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities, sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian, but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
Lilly is portrayed as the big bad, that is true, but her methods shouldn't come as a surprise as in The Walking Dead, there are people like Negan and The Governor who do far worse, but they do it because of the world they now inhabit, they have their reasoning for doing the things they do, as does Lilly, but the explanation given doesn't and hasn't satisfied everyone.
Just because there are people who ask about a character and what they did doesn't mean the writing is poor, not everyone picks up on things immediately, and the best source for answers is straight from the horses mouth, but whether or not the explanation is satisfactory to you or anyone else is something that only you are capable of deciding. Sorry for the unnecessarily long comment
Lilly: Im here to make these kids fight for me.
Also Lilly: kills the kids, mutilates the kids, talks about how these kids are too dumb to fight yet still wants them to fight for her, says the kids will live a better life but day 2 already removing body parts because shes evil for some reason
Also getting a tongue cut out wont make Louis a solider. Congrats guy, this kid fighting with us cant even communicate with us lmao hope he doesnt need to call anything out
Even Abel said that he was worth more than "a couple of sprouts who could barely lift a gun" so I always thought that was badly written too.
One word; menopause.
Should explain everything.
I was planning on making this thread since Episode 2 released. I agree. I actually cared about it enough to ask my younger cousins about it when I visited them (they have the game).
In terms of Target Audience, let me preface this by saying that to be honest, I feel like Telltale's TWD was always written in such a way that kids could watch it and enjoy it. I know about the dark stuff, but I know of several people who were under 16 when they first watched/played S1. It always had this light touch, but it was so good because at times that light touch would fade away. It was a constant back-and-forth. The game was charming, and balanced equal portions of dark and amusing, all the while pulling off great characters and storylines, well Doug was done badly but apart from that the game really had an effect on me. It never seemed like the TWD show.
As for TFS, there are many culprits. People feel differently about it because there's always evidence that conflicts with a point made. You could blame it on how you're in one location all the time, you could blame it on how the writers don't get how to make the kids seem realistic, you could blame it on the dialogue, etc. Idk, it just never swayed the right way for me how there's an argument about Brick Vs Log. I feel like Creative just can't balance the characters properly. AJ and Clem's relationship seems very well done, at least in terms of character realism, and that's funny since we're talking about AJ. Their relationship gives me S1 and 2 feels. But Aasim, Willy, (no point talking about Omar) and a few more, I could even go as far as saying James, Louis and Violet, I just don't feel like the writers have put enough effort into balancing this in with Clem and AJ, because it feels like it's in a different realm, a different game. Everyone's in a relationship, don't stretch my words, and when I play this game myself I'm not in awe, which is wierd because I was with S1 and 2. It's not that I can't accept an all-child cast, but the way certain characters were implemented makes this seem more and more like a cartoon and less like a Telltale. I get it, you love Violet and Louis, and that's good for you. Hopefully we can still be friends. I just think that the romance is quite pointless. Relationships can show players that Clem is now becoming a true adult, but teen romance just sucks, I'd much prefer this game without it.
Next thing is 'Dark'. I think that, like @SavageClemmy said, Episode 1 was done near perfectly in terms of balancing the Dark and Depressing and the Lighthearted. That felt like a Walking Dead episode. Yeah I wasn't a fan of how sassy Clem got and how Tenn made it seem like a dramatic play, and how when walking in on Marlon and Brody all the Options were negative (maybe not 'you woke me up'), but at the end of that it was generally a great episode. I think that Episode 2 and 3 overdid the lighthearted, the dialogue for this season isn't very good either because the kids are like stereotypical kids or have identities that can be described with a word, like Omar the Chef, Mitch the angry bomb dude, plus they swear too much that it ruins the mood they're going for and can even make it hard to take seriously, but that's personal. Whenever something dark does happen, it doesn't really get to me, it did with Louis but that's Louis. I can still go to sleep peacefully, and very often do I think about how, if it weren't for the themes that were never truly explored (particularly the child soldiers because of all the contradictions) and all the swearing and gore, this game wouldn't be 18+. I guess it is because I'm not the biggest fan of kids-only and I'd hoped they'd be more 'knowing'. TFS isn't as easy to recommend to a grown-adult, non Telltale fan (neutral) as Season 1, because there's nothing really astonishing or worthy of merit to me unlike S1. Whenever I do recommend it I worry that they won't like it, but what happens is that they pretty much agree with my thoughts and they love AJ and Rosie.
As for how memorable this season will be, that sort of depends on the finale but my expectations auren't too high. I feel like the ending will be something some love and some don't approve of for a series finale. You can see how there were a lot of moral stuff put into this game, it really gets you thinking, sometimes it's poorly done but in general there are a lot of cool themes.
I could say a lot more but I don't think it's worth it, my feelings toward this season have already gotten across.
Because she did not expect the kids to be capable enough of defending the school, even if she didn't think they were able to defend the school, it doesn't rule out their ability to become an asset to the Delta, Violet says that either Minerva or Sophie (I can't remember which one) didn't like killing, but Minerva still managed to develop into an asset for the Delta, and wouldn't have survived unless she adapted to their rules and killed enemies of the Delta. She mutilates Louis/Violet to show actions have consequences, and like I said in my last comment, while it doesn't seem like a smart idea as they need them in good condition to fight, it doesn't completely stunt their ability to fight. Clementine can still wield a knife effectively without a finger, so while it may have been difficult for her at the start, she eventually adapted and overcame that obstacle.
As for Louis, she cut out his tongue to mentally break him, leaving him susceptible to brainwashing or to fight out of fear of facing further punishment from Lilly. Even with disabilities, there is a way for them to fight or do their part to ensure they win the war.
The Boarding School kids aren't their own people, whom they will prioritise 100% of the time than a group of kids, as long as they have people that can act as sponges for the bullets fired at their people, I do not think they care if the kids wind up dead so long as they decrease the numbers of the enemy
Speaking for the people right here.
Agreed upon, this season is ranging from meh to good average, but as episodes get released it’s going more downhill for me, and now i think im gonna feel it’s a meh game with a bit of it leaning to the negative side if they continue to go on this current form and rate for episode 4.
Oh yes let’s keep Lilly a one dimensional character after being one of the best developed characters back in S1 and basically begging you to hate her with her forced “bitchy dialogues” despise the bonding choices you pick in Ep2... because lilly meanie big baddie poopoo and EVERYONE hates her ?
Lol, i thought we were over the joan thing back in 304, is this ANF 2 or what?
I also like how the romance are not “forced.” in this game:
3 out of 4 “PICK LOUIS OR VI” choices adds nor contributes to the story except “what ship you’re gonna end up with.. CLOUIS OR VIOLETINE ?”, i also like how they ALWAYS end up having a crush over you no matter how many times you shut them off.
Doesn’t look like that optional to me...
I also like how they said EP2-3 are gonna be a focus on Tenn but that ended a complete lie!
I also like how they advertised for the NEW EPIC AND DEEP COMBAT SYSTEM ... Press [..] to stun, Press [..] to kill.
I also like, so far so now, and according to Kent: Javi and Richmond are safe where no dangerous threat can befall them.
Let’s forget ANF and the Garcia’s even though the “Clem not going back to Richmond” debate is a huge fucking plot hole because.... Fuck ANF! am i right? ?