The fact that her actions in this episode and during the latter bits of her first scene in the previous don't line up.
Lilly went in with the intention of taking all of the kids, instead she only got 3, Minerva states that they planned on returning to gather the rest of the kids, as 3 of the kids wasn't enough, it just cut the losses they endured from raiding the school at that time.
This is fact.
We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities, sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian, but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
Op-bop-bop--here! Let's really look into this because it is the biggest display of the issue:
We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities,
She has indeed been hurting the delinquents when necessary to get the point, but almost never in a way that interferes with the very objective of recruiting them as able bodies. Almost, except if Louis was the one Sullene/Dorian captured; in which case, she [apparently personally] cuts his friggin tongue out! Something that likely permanently disables him in a crucial way, both in universe and out. And why did she do this?
Assim: "He just kept talking. "
sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian,
I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do,but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
And let's address her letting Dorian chop off some of Louis/Violet's fingertips with a[nother] cleaver. I was considering doing an FA on it, but it's a shallow enough subject that I can just do it here:
This happens in minutes after a sudden attack involving walkers, a sabotaging thief, and stowaways--Clementeen, AJ, and Louis/Violet, plus unknowingly to her Ruby's Revenge. They have orchestrated this attack, dispatched Armando & possibly Michael, and made it to their friends' cells, where Minnie ended up tricking them into becoming prisoners themselves. And Clementeen, in addition to all of the previous impudence, killed Abel to get the ship's location and is still resisting the Deltas' mission. So following her own lesson of setting an example, she signals Dorian to enter their & AJ's cell to do this...and it almost works storywise.
Now, why does that [almost] work when what can happen if Louis was already captured doesn't? Well, there's a number of factors:
As you said, this may not hinder their value as a fighter too much, given they still have what's left of those fingers, maybe two unchopped ones, and whole other hand to use
It's determinant and thus can be prevented
The alternative scenario is probably the one unambiguously good moment in the third act
She's doing it in order to get Clementeen, the most resistant, effective-leader of these adolescents, to submit; more on that in a moment
A little narrative technique called "raising the stakes" where the threat escalates within reason; didn't wanna leave this off for last
Back to the submission point, something that they didn't go with, but totally could have is this--it could've been a partial bluff and/or sadistic choice: either Clementeen breaks to protect her friend or Dorian breaks them. If she does break, which is likely with Lilith was banking on happening, then it's a empty threat done to intimidate; if not, well then, it looks like your pride was too much to exchange for your friend's morale. After all, she had the power to stop what Louis/Violet was gonna suffer.
You see not only the distinction, but the consistency there vs the combo we got? You still have a pretty straightforward but not too destructive villain who errs into slightly damaging her own motivations, but for a specific reason that poses to help it in the long run. And out of universe, you still have a reworked character that actually makes sense in and of itself. And all I really did there (outside of that last bullet point, if you wanna count it) was isolate what reeeeeally doesn't work from something that still pushes it, but not that much.
Lilly is portrayed as the big bad, that is true, but her methods shouldn't come as a surprise as in The Walking Dead, there are people like Negan and The Governor who do far worse, but they do it because of the world they now inhabit, they have their reasoning for doing the things they do, as does Lilly, but the explanation given doesn't and hasn't satisfied everyone.
And you just hit on another, out of universe issue with the Louis thing in particular: it just comes off such an attempt to be edgy, shocking, and "authentic" that veers outside of the character's general methods and also messing with tone somethin fierce.
Forgive me for being slow, but what makes Lilly's character inconsistent? Not trying to be funny or smart, but I am practically brain dead t… moreoday.
Lilly went in with the intention of taking all of the kids, instead she only got 3, Minerva states that they planned on returning to gather the rest of the kids, as 3 of the kids wasn't enough, it just cut the losses they endured from raiding the school at that time. We just saw the extent of how far Lilly is willing to go to get what she wants, I know mutilating the kids that are intended to be soldiers doesn't sound like a smart thing to do, but they don't seem to harm the kids in a way that completely alters their fighting abilities, sure Louis/Violet can lose more than half of their finger because of Dorian, but they aren't dismembered in a way that hinders their fighting capabilities, but I guess I wouldn't know, as all of my fingers are intact.
Lilly is portrayed as the big bad, that is tru… [view original content]
I also like how they said EP2-3 are gonna be a focus on Tenn but that ended a complete lie!
It's NOT a LIE. It got rewritten. Kmudle said so himself. Just because somebody changes their mind, that doesn't make them a liar. Plans change, get over it.
I also like how the romance are not “forced.” in this game:
3 out of 4 “PICK LOUIS OR VI” choices adds nor contributes to the story excep… moret “what ship you’re gonna end up with.. CLOUIS OR VIOLETINE ?”, i also like how they ALWAYS end up having a crush over you no matter how many times you shut them off.
Doesn’t look like that optional to me...
I also like how they said EP2-3 are gonna be a focus on Tenn but that ended a complete lie!
I also like how they advertised for the NEW EPIC AND DEEP COMBAT SYSTEM ... Press [..] to stun, Press [..] to kill.
I also like, so far so now, and according to Kent: Javi and Richmond are safe where no dangerous threat can befall them.
Let’s forget ANF and the Garcia’s even though the “Clem not going back to Richmond” debate is a huge fucking plot hole because.... Fuck ANF! am i right? ?
I also like how they said EP2-3 are gonna be a focus on Tenn but that ended a complete lie!
It's NOT a LIE. It got rewritten. Kmudle… more said so himself. Just because somebody changes their mind, that doesn't make them a liar. Plans change, get over it.
Because she did not expect the kids to be capable enough of defending the school, even if she didn't think they were able to defend the scho… moreol, it doesn't rule out their ability to become an asset to the Delta, Violet says that either Minerva or Sophie (I can't remember which one) didn't like killing, but Minerva still managed to develop into an asset for the Delta, and wouldn't have survived unless she adapted to their rules and killed enemies of the Delta. She mutilates Louis/Violet to show actions have consequences, and like I said in my last comment, while it doesn't seem like a smart idea as they need them in good condition to fight, it doesn't completely stunt their ability to fight. Clementine can still wield a knife effectively without a finger, so while it may have been difficult for her at the start, she eventually adapted and overcame that obstacle.
As for Louis, she cut out his tongue to mentally break him, leaving him susceptibl… [view original content]
I just feel like this game is targetting a younger audience
Me too.
I miss how dark and depressing season 2 could be sometimes,i miss adults interactions
Me too. Michonne had a shitty plot, but I think most of us think that the tone was dark and intriguing.
i'm not even gonna talk about Lilly
For me this isn’t the same Lilly.
I don’t even feel like saying anything else. I’ve only watched the episodes a single time because I am not interested in the series anymore. I watched EP3, and I enjoyed it, I thought it was fine, but I’m in disbelief that this is the continuation of S1 and S2.
I think this might be the only time I'll ever agree with you.
Episode 1 was SUPER dark. It actually felt like a good continuation of S1… more's and S2's darkness. It felt like I was playing a proper TWD game. The episode reels you in with the fake optimistic Peter Pan bullshit but takes you out at the end with the good old "humans must suffer" mantra that is typical in TWD and other zombie narratives.
But I don't get that same feeling in EP2 and EP3 for some reason. Apart from Louis' tongue of course.
What do you mean ? I don't hate this season as much as you do,it's just something that's been on my mind since episode 2 came out and i wanted to talk about it.
Ya'll have a point that this season ain't the best in writing, we'll never get a season that will satisfy everyone because of what we're interested in...for me I'm loving this season for all its worth because it's the final....and without skybound we wouldn't be abel to even talk or get butthurt about certain characters...be grateful people.
Ya'll have a point that this season ain't the best in writing, we'll never get a season that will satisfy everyone because of what we're int… moreerested in...for me I'm loving this season for all its worth because it's the final....and without skybound we wouldn't be abel to even talk or get butthurt about certain characters...be grateful people.
While I can certainly agree with a lot of the criticism in this thread, I fortunately don't overthink these things too much while playing the game and just go with the flow.
There's really only one thing that sticks out for me while playing the game and takes me out of the story a bit. It's the way they decided to spread out the attention they give to some of the characters.
Willy didn't get much/any attention in e1 and 2? Okay lets focus on him for a bit in 3.
Tenn already got attention? Okay, lets forget about him for now.
Mitch didn't get any attention in e1 and he's going to die soon? Lets throw him some lines.
It just feels too mechanical and planned out. They should have evened it out a bit better.
I think they did it right with Ruby so far. She got a nice steady amount of attention. Not too much, but it feels natural overall.
And Omar… I'm kind of hoping they just forget about him at this point. Instead of trying to shoehorn him in at the last moment.
What do you mean ? I don't hate this season as much as you do,it's just something that's been on my mind since episode 2 came out and i wanted to talk about it.
Pretty much.
Episode 3 was originally slated to be about Tenn for obvious reasons, but they changed that for whatever reason, which I think it's safely one of the tertiary issues with it.
And what Wily and especially Omar a little disparaging is that they could've very easily gotten at least some development and/or interaction during Episode 2. Would've helped their characters and to an extent the cast overall.
While I can certainly agree with a lot of the criticism in this thread, I fortunately don't overthink these things too much while playing th… moree game and just go with the flow.
There's really only one thing that sticks out for me while playing the game and takes me out of the story a bit. It's the way they decided to spread out the attention they give to some of the characters.
Willy didn't get much/any attention in e1 and 2? Okay lets focus on him for a bit in 3.
Tenn already got attention? Okay, lets forget about him for now.
Mitch didn't get any attention in e1 and he's going to die soon? Lets throw him some lines.
It just feels too mechanical and planned out. They should have evened it out a bit better.
I think they did it right with Ruby so far. She got a nice steady amount of attention. Not too much, but it feels natural overall.
And Omar… I'm kind of hoping they just forget about him at this point. Instead of trying to shoehorn him in at the last moment.
I actually agree, I feel no connection to AJ at all. Like I literally would not care if he died or got bit or whatnot, I just don't care about him. If the developers had made AJ a child of Omid and Christa or even Lee and Carly or Lilly, I would have been so caring and wanting to protect him at all cost, because he will matter to me in that scenario. He is our link to the past, the people we loved but lost on the way. It would have been a thousand times more emotional a journey if everytime Clementine looked at AJ she reminded herself of Lee and what he did to her to protect her, and now she does it to AJ(LJ? if he were Lee's son). I'm not saying I don't enjoy this season or the previous ones. I just wished it had the emotional impact on me season 1 had. I miss the emotional element of these games and how I cared about all the characters and actually felt saddness or anger after the death of one.
I actually think the Clem and AJ's relationship is one of the best things about this season but i get what you mean.
I miss the emotional element of these games and how I cared about all the characters and actually felt saddness or anger after the death of one
Me too,honestly i feel like the problem is that most of the characters (the kids) are really underdeveloped,there's too much focus on Violet and Louis it was fine in episode 1 but not in episode 2 and 3.
Characters like Willy only starts to get some development in episode 3,other characters like Tenn and Aasim just don't get enough screentime,and then there's Omar who's just..there,he exists,he could die literally no one would care.
I actually agree, I feel no connection to AJ at all. Like I literally would not care if he died or got bit or whatnot, I just don't care abo… moreut him. If the developers had made AJ a child of Omid and Christa or even Lee and Carly or Lilly, I would have been so caring and wanting to protect him at all cost, because he will matter to me in that scenario. He is our link to the past, the people we loved but lost on the way. It would have been a thousand times more emotional a journey if everytime Clementine looked at AJ she reminded herself of Lee and what he did to her to protect her, and now she does it to AJ(LJ? if he were Lee's son). I'm not saying I don't enjoy this season or the previous ones. I just wished it had the emotional impact on me season 1 had. I miss the emotional element of these games and how I cared about all the characters and actually felt saddness or anger after the death of one.
Yeah, they did a good job in episode 1 but then they slowly faded. Aasim felt like he was a minor character, but episode 2 he doesnt do much besides the card game, and then fades away. Omar is a fucking joke. All the other characters still alive are just in a "meh" category but thats about it. Its clear the 2 characters they decided to do any real development with was Louis and Violet, everyone else is pretty irrelevant in terms of character growth.
Its a bit annoying because Season 1 had a large group of characters and they were all fleshed out and done well. Final Season seems to take it to a bare minimum with "they got their one scene to shine!" and then drop them. (besides louis and violet, but even they are kinda cookie cutter at the moment, neither of them go through any real change until presumably if you saved them or not, but we have yet to see where that really goes)
I actually think the Clem and AJ's relationship is one of the best things about this season but i get what you mean.
I miss the emotio… morenal element of these games and how I cared about all the characters and actually felt saddness or anger after the death of one
Me too,honestly i feel like the problem is that most of the characters (the kids) are really underdeveloped,there's too much focus on Violet and Louis it was fine in episode 1 but not in episode 2 and 3.
Characters like Willy only starts to get some development in episode 3,other characters like Tenn and Aasim just don't get enough screentime,and then there's Omar who's just..there,he exists,he could die literally no one would care.
Its a bit annoying because Season 1 had a large group of characters and they were all fleshed out and done well
I think someone said the same thing somewhere else but
The reason why characters in season 1 were all fleshed out and shit was because they focused on different plot/storylines
EP1 The Motel,EP2 the Farm,EP3 the bandits and the group falling apart and the train,EP4 the City and Crawford,EP5 Saving Clementine.
That's what made character development so great in season 1 it had one plot for each episode.
While this season drags out one plot (and the plot isn't even good) making it feel like a much smaller story.
And character development is harder when you're dragging out one plot so that's why they chose to do simple things for character development like having the characters play the card game in episode 2 or throwing a party.
They definitely could've done a much better job with the characters even with a smaller story for sure,but i think Season 1 having different storylines each episode really helped.
Yeah, they did a good job in episode 1 but then they slowly faded. Aasim felt like he was a minor character, but episode 2 he doesnt do much… more besides the card game, and then fades away. Omar is a fucking joke. All the other characters still alive are just in a "meh" category but thats about it. Its clear the 2 characters they decided to do any real development with was Louis and Violet, everyone else is pretty irrelevant in terms of character growth.
Its a bit annoying because Season 1 had a large group of characters and they were all fleshed out and done well. Final Season seems to take it to a bare minimum with "they got their one scene to shine!" and then drop them. (besides louis and violet, but even they are kinda cookie cutter at the moment, neither of them go through any real change until presumably if you saved them or not, but we have yet to see where that really goes)
Well I think its also just how season 1 clearly had more of a vision. Other Walking Deads were obviously just made to try and make money, instead of a team at Telltale going "We have this incredible idea." Season 2 had the most thought in it from season 1 to 2, but it suffered from a lot of rewrites, but season 1 did actually plan for season 2 a little bit (like making sure Kenny's death was uncertain, that type of stuff.) But season 2 ended with clearly no idea where season 3 would go, and season 3 did its own garbage thing, and then season 4 came and kinda just jump starts somewhere else to get away from ANF. Only real connection is the Ranch, and I feel like its going to be a really lame revelation for what happened there and it wont answer why Clem didnt go back to Richmond like she said she would.
Anyway, because of this lack of planning things out, it feels more like these characters were made, then the story. So now theres some characters who really dont work in the story that well just sitting there because instead of a story being made and then changing the characters to fit, its just trying to fill in gaps with characters already made that they arnt changing. Many character relationships are so linear too. Like in episode 1 if you appeal to Louis, start of episode 2 he is always acting like an asshole no matter what, but Violet is now the perfect person. I can understand Louis still being mad, but they dont even mention how you appealed to him in anyway, its just forgotten like it didnt mean anything at all. And then for some reason this means that Violet just didnt give a fuck about Marlon being killed besides them being friends for years as well. Like this really has been the most linear season yet, so far the biggest determent thing was which "date" you went on with. The whole save Louis or Violet thing isnt that great either because that seems to be the new thing with Telltale. Just swap a character out, but make them do the same shit in the same scenes, only real difference you'll get is what they say, even though its pretty much the same thing just said in a different way. So right now the only real big choice has been who you romanced, if you even romanced anyone, and then presumably the Lilly choice, but who knows how that'll go. (wont be surprised if they do a whole "dual" episode based on that like they did for Batman 2, even if it really wont make any sense based on the story we've had so far)
Sorry for the late reply.
Its a bit annoying because Season 1 had a large group of characters and they were all fleshed out and done w… moreell
I think someone said the same thing somewhere else but
The reason why characters in season 1 were all fleshed out and shit was because they focused on different plot/storylines
EP1 The Motel,EP2 the Farm,EP3 the bandits and the group falling apart and the train,EP4 the City and Crawford,EP5 Saving Clementine.
That's what made character development so great in season 1 it had one plot for each episode.
While this season drags out one plot (and the plot isn't even good) making it feel like a much smaller story.
And character development is harder when you're dragging out one plot so that's why they chose to do simple things for character development like having the characters play the card game in episode 2 or throwing a party.
They definitely could've done a much better job with the… [view original content]
I've been thinking about this sentiment, that S4 barely feels like a TWD game, for some time now and it is somewhat true in regards to the superficial packaging, so to speak. We never really primarily followed a kid/teenager in a TWD story or, to be more specific, a teenager around other teenagers. The Walking Dead has always focused on adults, which was reflected by the stories told.
With S4, that changed and it does feel different. You can totally say that you hate it for not being dark enough or for being too lighthearted, but I think this shift of perspective is something this franchise needed eventually to grow into something more than misery-porn or - in the case of ANF - mindless conflicts.
So, yeah. S4 barely feels like a TWD game, but that's okay.
Anyway, because of this lack of planning things out, it feels more like these characters were made, then the story.
Uhhm, this is exactly what happened. After Batman S2, Kent and his team joined the TFS team and basically rebooted everything except the characters and the school. They had to keep them because of their deadline and their budget.
So they wrote a completely new storyline with these existing characters, which is what we got.
Well I think its also just how season 1 clearly had more of a vision. Other Walking Deads were obviously just made to try and make money, in… morestead of a team at Telltale going "We have this incredible idea." Season 2 had the most thought in it from season 1 to 2, but it suffered from a lot of rewrites, but season 1 did actually plan for season 2 a little bit (like making sure Kenny's death was uncertain, that type of stuff.) But season 2 ended with clearly no idea where season 3 would go, and season 3 did its own garbage thing, and then season 4 came and kinda just jump starts somewhere else to get away from ANF. Only real connection is the Ranch, and I feel like its going to be a really lame revelation for what happened there and it wont answer why Clem didnt go back to Richmond like she said she would.
Anyway, because of this lack of planning things out, it feels more like these characters were made, then the story. So now theres some char… [view original content]
Yes, he said episode 1 was largely the same for the most part, which is probably why episode 1 is so much better than 2 and 3. (Apparently the original plot also didnt have the Delta, which already sounds 10x better instead of another boring generic group vs group plot)
Anyway, because of this lack of planning things out, it feels more like these characters were made, then the story.
Uhhm, this is ex… moreactly what happened. After Batman S2, Kent and his team joined the TFS team and basically rebooted everything except the characters and the school. They had to keep them because of their deadline and their budget.
So they wrote a completely new storyline with these existing characters, which is what we got.
Can you, or anybody for that matter, explain what happened with the original game and why they changed it ?
I'm really confused, so the original TT team made EP 1 and Kent and others came later and rewrote EP2 (and 3).
Who was in the original team that wrote EP 1 ?
Yes, he said episode 1 was largely the same for the most part, which is probably why episode 1 is so much better than 2 and 3. (Apparently t… morehe original plot also didnt have the Delta, which already sounds 10x better instead of another boring generic group vs group plot)
Can you, or anybody for that matter, explain what happened with the original game and why they changed it ?
I'm really confused, so the or… moreiginal TT team made EP 1 and Kent and others came later and rewrote EP2 (and 3).
Who was in the original team that wrote EP 1 ?
Im not sure we probs will never get a full picture but for what we know so far about what the original story was:
One draft involved a lot of moving, which was why Clem drives a car, the car would have been how they got around. Not sure if this is directly linked to the original plot but it probably is.
Then apparently episode 1 was largely the same with the kid cast and the school, but Mundle's team decided to change what they were originally going for and make it about the Delta. Abel was apparently not in episode 1 (or existed at all, along with the rest of the Delta) until his team came in. A lot of the same, but he said a lot was rewritten to fit where the story would be going in the future. AJ apparently wasnt as much of a a central character either. (making me think the plot might have been chasing him down, and traveling place to place to find him or something)
Thats about all we know so far about what the original plot was, the biggest take away is that there wasnt going to be a Delta.
Can you, or anybody for that matter, explain what happened with the original game and why they changed it ?
I'm really confused, so the or… moreiginal TT team made EP 1 and Kent and others came later and rewrote EP2 (and 3).
Who was in the original team that wrote EP 1 ?
I agree with almost everything said here. TFS does not feel like a TWD game at all. It's tone and focus is completly different to the previous 4 seasons. (I must say at least episode 1 felt like a TWD game unlike eps 2 and 3) Here are my main issues with the game.
The boring ass setting and lack of movement
The school and woods are boring, and that's where we spend 85% of the game. The train station and boat were really cool, but we only spend 2 and 1 scenes in each of them respectively. This means that there have only been 5 locations in TFS total (counting the fishing house.) Back in season 2, we had the rest stop, campsite, Luke's cabin, the hideouts with Pete/Nick, the lodge with Kenny, the Howe's truck, Howe's (which was huge, much bigger than Ericson's) the historical site, the Civil War museum, the lake and the unfinished, house, and other rest stop where Kenny VS Jane occurs, and Wellington.
The first 4 seasons had some really interesting locations, but TFS's are boring for the most part and the bland graphics don't help.
The boring ass antagonists
I'm not sure what happened here. Abel was really cool in episode 1, and I really liked his scene. It was really well written and his voice actor did a great job. The choice of shoving him into walkers was cool. Then in episode 2 he just becomes boring. His personality loses all it's development and he just becomes an asshole that shoots toddlers with scramblers.
Lilly doesn't look or feel like Lilly. I get that part of this is due to save file and story builder limitations, but still. She literally has under 30 minutes of screen time and then just dies in half of our playthroughs. She is clearly only there to establish TFS as a season 1 sequel. Her personality shows literally no resemblance to season 1 Lilly and she looks nothing like season 1 Lilly. She might as well be a different character
The other antagonists are boring. Oscar from Telltale's Jurassic ParkYonaton just dies right away. Gina/Sullene don't do anything. Armando and Gad have ZERO lines in most playthroughs. Michael had this really cool concept art where he could have been a really coll villain that gave the player chills if he were like Carver or Randall, but no he's just another raider that dies.
The few and far between boring ass character deaths
I'm not saying that TFS should've killed all but 3 characters like in season 2 but seriously nobody has died. It's no wonder this game doesn't feel like a The Walking Dead game.
Episode 1 was really good with deaths. Marlon and Brody both had well made deaths and the player definitely knew Marlon well before he died. The player also at least exchanged dialogue with Brody before she died. That was 2 kills and determinantly 1 unknown (Abel) in the episode.
Episode 2 did not have enough deaths. We had Mitch, whose death was well made but helps differentiates TFS Lilly from s1 Lilly. That was it. Not even counting with Yonaton since we didn't even know him by name.
Episode 3 literally has no boarding school kids die. Abel always dies and either Lilly or James dies. the raiders dont count since we don't know them at all.
These deaths are literally nothing compared to the prior seasons.
TDLR: you know something is wrong when your discord server refers to the game as "The Final Shit"
AJ apparently wasnt as much of a a central character either. (making me think the plot might have been chasing him down, and traveling place to place to find him or something)
That's exactly what it meant. Mr Mudle also answered a question stating he would've been a moving goalpost.
Im not sure we probs will never get a full picture but for what we know so far about what the original story was:
One draft involved a lo… moret of moving, which was why Clem drives a car, the car would have been how they got around. Not sure if this is directly linked to the original plot but it probably is.
Then apparently episode 1 was largely the same with the kid cast and the school, but Mundle's team decided to change what they were originally going for and make it about the Delta. Abel was apparently not in episode 1 (or existed at all, along with the rest of the Delta) until his team came in. A lot of the same, but he said a lot was rewritten to fit where the story would be going in the future. AJ apparently wasnt as much of a a central character either. (making me think the plot might have been chasing him down, and traveling place to place to find him or something)
Thats about all we know so far about what the original plot was, the biggest take away is that there wasnt going to be a Delta.
The school and woods are boring, and that's where we spend 85% of the game.
The school would be more interesting if we got to explore it more.
Howe's (which was huge, much bigger than Ericson's)
Not that that matters, considering we didn't do much in it.
Also, you forgot the Trailer Park, Bridge, Matthew's shack, and powerplant.
I'm not sure what happened here. Abel was really cool in episode 1, and I really liked his scene. It was really well written and his voice actor did a great job. The choice of shoving him into walkers was cool. Then in episode 2 he just becomes boring. His personality loses all it's development and he just becomes an asshole that shoots toddlers with scramblers.
Yeah, I liked Abel for his part overall.
I mean, he could've been handled a tad better in Episode 2 and I initially preferred the idea of him being less of a villain than opportunist, but he was technically the best of the villains thus far regardless.
Lilly doesn't look or feel like Lilly. I get that part of this is due to save file and story builder limitations, but still. She literally has under 30 minutes of screen time and then just dies in half of our playthroughs. She is clearly only there to establish TFS as a season 1 sequel. Her personality shows literally no resemblance to season 1 Lilly and she looks nothing like season 1 Lilly. She might as well be a different character
Sigh...I was kinda mixed on Lilith in episode 2, but yeah, pretty much.
The other antagonists are boring.
Yeah, that's kinda the whole recipe.
Oscar from Telltale's Jurassic ParkYonaton just dies right away.
Ch'yeah.
I need to get back to that.
Gina/Sullene don't do anything.
The latter in particular is kinda weird for reasons I'll get into at some point.
Michael had this really cool concept art where he could have been a really coll villain that gave the player chills if he were like Carver or Randall, but no he's just another raider that dies.
Oh really now?
I'm not saying that TFS should've killed all but 3 characters like in season 2 but seriously nobody has died. It's no wonder this game doesn't feel like a The Walking Dead game.
Eh, that's not really a problem.
If anything, the opposite has had an effect.
Not even counting with Yonaton since we didn't even know him by name.
Unless you looked in the files and/or credits, but that's literally it. He hadn't really even done anything.
TDLR: you know something is wrong when your discord server refers to the game as "The Final Shit"
I agree with almost everything said here. TFS does not feel like a TWD game at all. It's tone and focus is completly different to the previo… moreus 4 seasons. (I must say at least episode 1 felt like a TWD game unlike eps 2 and 3) Here are my main issues with the game.
* The boring ass setting and lack of movement
The school and woods are boring, and that's where we spend 85% of the game. The train station and boat were really cool, but we only spend 2 and 1 scenes in each of them respectively. This means that there have only been 5 locations in TFS total (counting the fishing house.) Back in season 2, we had the rest stop, campsite, Luke's cabin, the hideouts with Pete/Nick, the lodge with Kenny, the Howe's truck, Howe's (which was huge, much bigger than Ericson's) the historical site, the Civil War museum, the lake and the unfinished, house, and other rest stop where Kenny VS Jane occurs, and Wellington.
The first 4 seasons had some … [view original content]
Comments
The fact that her actions in this episode and during the latter bits of her first scene in the previous don't line up.
This is fact.
Op-bop-bop--here! Let's really look into this because it is the biggest display of the issue:
She has indeed been hurting the delinquents when necessary to get the point, but almost never in a way that interferes with the very objective of recruiting them as able bodies. Almost, except if Louis was the one Sullene/Dorian captured; in which case, she [apparently personally] cuts his friggin tongue out! Something that likely permanently disables him in a crucial way, both in universe and out. And why did she do this?
"
Assim: "He just kept talking.
And let's address her letting Dorian chop off some of Louis/Violet's fingertips with a[nother] cleaver. I was considering doing an FA on it, but it's a shallow enough subject that I can just do it here:
This happens in minutes after a sudden attack involving walkers, a sabotaging thief, and stowaways--Clementeen, AJ, and Louis/Violet, plus unknowingly to her Ruby's Revenge. They have orchestrated this attack, dispatched Armando & possibly Michael, and made it to their friends' cells, where Minnie ended up tricking them into becoming prisoners themselves. And Clementeen, in addition to all of the previous impudence, killed Abel to get the ship's location and is still resisting the Deltas' mission. So following her own lesson of setting an example, she signals Dorian to enter their & AJ's cell to do this...and it almost works storywise.
Now, why does that [almost] work when what can happen if Louis was already captured doesn't? Well, there's a number of factors:
It's determinant and thus can be prevented
She's doing it in order to get Clementeen, the most resistant, effective-leader of these adolescents, to submit; more on that in a moment
You see not only the distinction, but the consistency there vs the combo we got? You still have a pretty straightforward but not too destructive villain who errs into slightly damaging her own motivations, but for a specific reason that poses to help it in the long run. And out of universe, you still have a reworked character that actually makes sense in and of itself. And all I really did there (outside of that last bullet point, if you wanna count it) was isolate what reeeeeally doesn't work from something that still pushes it, but not that much.
And you just hit on another, out of universe issue with the Louis thing in particular: it just comes off such an attempt to be edgy, shocking, and "authentic" that veers outside of the character's general methods and also messing with tone somethin fierce.
It's NOT a LIE. It got rewritten. Kmudle said so himself. Just because somebody changes their mind, that doesn't make them a liar. Plans change, get over it.
Literally same thing happened with ANF, but it still gets the hate for it somehow ?
...
Did they also “change their mind” about the deep combat system....?
It was Minnie because they barely talked about Sophie.
Me too.
Me too. Michonne had a shitty plot, but I think most of us think that the tone was dark and intriguing.
For me this isn’t the same Lilly.
I don’t even feel like saying anything else. I’ve only watched the episodes a single time because I am not interested in the series anymore. I watched EP3, and I enjoyed it, I thought it was fine, but I’m in disbelief that this is the continuation of S1 and S2.
I 100% feel the same way.
Sleep! What's goin on, man?
Can I just kindly say that I was insinuating this from the get-go in older threads? You are welcome, chicos. xo
What do you mean ? I don't hate this season as much as you do,it's just something that's been on my mind since episode 2 came out and i wanted to talk about it.
Hey Dabig lol
Ya'll have a point that this season ain't the best in writing, we'll never get a season that will satisfy everyone because of what we're interested in...for me I'm loving this season for all its worth because it's the final....and without skybound we wouldn't be abel to even talk or get butthurt about certain characters...be grateful people.
Thank You.
How's Telltale/Skybound been treatin ya since you were last here?
While I can certainly agree with a lot of the criticism in this thread, I fortunately don't overthink these things too much while playing the game and just go with the flow.
There's really only one thing that sticks out for me while playing the game and takes me out of the story a bit. It's the way they decided to spread out the attention they give to some of the characters.
Willy didn't get much/any attention in e1 and 2? Okay lets focus on him for a bit in 3.
Tenn already got attention? Okay, lets forget about him for now.
Mitch didn't get any attention in e1 and he's going to die soon? Lets throw him some lines.
It just feels too mechanical and planned out. They should have evened it out a bit better.
I think they did it right with Ruby so far. She got a nice steady amount of attention. Not too much, but it feels natural overall.
And Omar… I'm kind of hoping they just forget about him at this point. Instead of trying to shoehorn him in at the last moment.
Fair enough, but some of your ideas are similar to mine.
Pretty much.
Episode 3 was originally slated to be about Tenn for obvious reasons, but they changed that for whatever reason, which I think it's safely one of the tertiary issues with it.
And what Wily and especially Omar a little disparaging is that they could've very easily gotten at least some development and/or interaction during Episode 2. Would've helped their characters and to an extent the cast overall.
WORST OF THE LOT,yes even ANF
Edit: This isnt the meme thread I feel really dumb
I actually agree, I feel no connection to AJ at all. Like I literally would not care if he died or got bit or whatnot, I just don't care about him. If the developers had made AJ a child of Omid and Christa or even Lee and Carly or Lilly, I would have been so caring and wanting to protect him at all cost, because he will matter to me in that scenario. He is our link to the past, the people we loved but lost on the way. It would have been a thousand times more emotional a journey if everytime Clementine looked at AJ she reminded herself of Lee and what he did to her to protect her, and now she does it to AJ(LJ? if he were Lee's son). I'm not saying I don't enjoy this season or the previous ones. I just wished it had the emotional impact on me season 1 had. I miss the emotional element of these games and how I cared about all the characters and actually felt saddness or anger after the death of one.
I actually think the Clem and AJ's relationship is one of the best things about this season but i get what you mean.
Me too,honestly i feel like the problem is that most of the characters (the kids) are really underdeveloped,there's too much focus on Violet and Louis it was fine in episode 1 but not in episode 2 and 3.
Characters like Willy only starts to get some development in episode 3,other characters like Tenn and Aasim just don't get enough screentime,and then there's Omar who's just..there,he exists,he could die literally no one would care.
Yeah, they did a good job in episode 1 but then they slowly faded. Aasim felt like he was a minor character, but episode 2 he doesnt do much besides the card game, and then fades away. Omar is a fucking joke. All the other characters still alive are just in a "meh" category but thats about it. Its clear the 2 characters they decided to do any real development with was Louis and Violet, everyone else is pretty irrelevant in terms of character growth.
Its a bit annoying because Season 1 had a large group of characters and they were all fleshed out and done well. Final Season seems to take it to a bare minimum with "they got their one scene to shine!" and then drop them. (besides louis and violet, but even they are kinda cookie cutter at the moment, neither of them go through any real change until presumably if you saved them or not, but we have yet to see where that really goes)
Sorry for the late reply.
I think someone said the same thing somewhere else but
The reason why characters in season 1 were all fleshed out and shit was because they focused on different plot/storylines
EP1 The Motel,EP2 the Farm,EP3 the bandits and the group falling apart and the train,EP4 the City and Crawford,EP5 Saving Clementine.
That's what made character development so great in season 1 it had one plot for each episode.
While this season drags out one plot (and the plot isn't even good) making it feel like a much smaller story.
And character development is harder when you're dragging out one plot so that's why they chose to do simple things for character development like having the characters play the card game in episode 2 or throwing a party.
They definitely could've done a much better job with the characters even with a smaller story for sure,but i think Season 1 having different storylines each episode really helped.
Well I think its also just how season 1 clearly had more of a vision. Other Walking Deads were obviously just made to try and make money, instead of a team at Telltale going "We have this incredible idea." Season 2 had the most thought in it from season 1 to 2, but it suffered from a lot of rewrites, but season 1 did actually plan for season 2 a little bit (like making sure Kenny's death was uncertain, that type of stuff.) But season 2 ended with clearly no idea where season 3 would go, and season 3 did its own garbage thing, and then season 4 came and kinda just jump starts somewhere else to get away from ANF. Only real connection is the Ranch, and I feel like its going to be a really lame revelation for what happened there and it wont answer why Clem didnt go back to Richmond like she said she would.
Anyway, because of this lack of planning things out, it feels more like these characters were made, then the story. So now theres some characters who really dont work in the story that well just sitting there because instead of a story being made and then changing the characters to fit, its just trying to fill in gaps with characters already made that they arnt changing. Many character relationships are so linear too. Like in episode 1 if you appeal to Louis, start of episode 2 he is always acting like an asshole no matter what, but Violet is now the perfect person. I can understand Louis still being mad, but they dont even mention how you appealed to him in anyway, its just forgotten like it didnt mean anything at all. And then for some reason this means that Violet just didnt give a fuck about Marlon being killed besides them being friends for years as well. Like this really has been the most linear season yet, so far the biggest determent thing was which "date" you went on with. The whole save Louis or Violet thing isnt that great either because that seems to be the new thing with Telltale. Just swap a character out, but make them do the same shit in the same scenes, only real difference you'll get is what they say, even though its pretty much the same thing just said in a different way. So right now the only real big choice has been who you romanced, if you even romanced anyone, and then presumably the Lilly choice, but who knows how that'll go. (wont be surprised if they do a whole "dual" episode based on that like they did for Batman 2, even if it really wont make any sense based on the story we've had so far)
Haha, there's no pleasing this garbage fandom
That was one of the most pointless post i've seen in this thread if you don't have anything interesting/relevant to say just gtfo thank you.
Well that's not entirely true. After all, the fandom is a reflection of the product.
yo wtf did dabigrg just drop some hot fire???
+Repsect
I've been thinking about this sentiment, that S4 barely feels like a TWD game, for some time now and it is somewhat true in regards to the superficial packaging, so to speak. We never really primarily followed a kid/teenager in a TWD story or, to be more specific, a teenager around other teenagers. The Walking Dead has always focused on adults, which was reflected by the stories told.
With S4, that changed and it does feel different. You can totally say that you hate it for not being dark enough or for being too lighthearted, but I think this shift of perspective is something this franchise needed eventually to grow into something more than misery-porn or - in the case of ANF - mindless conflicts.
So, yeah. S4 barely feels like a TWD game, but that's okay.
Uhhm, this is exactly what happened. After Batman S2, Kent and his team joined the TFS team and basically rebooted everything except the characters and the school. They had to keep them because of their deadline and their budget.
So they wrote a completely new storyline with these existing characters, which is what we got.
Yes, he said episode 1 was largely the same for the most part, which is probably why episode 1 is so much better than 2 and 3. (Apparently the original plot also didnt have the Delta, which already sounds 10x better instead of another boring generic group vs group plot)
I have lost faith in this game.
Can you, or anybody for that matter, explain what happened with the original game and why they changed it ?
I'm really confused, so the original TT team made EP 1 and Kent and others came later and rewrote EP2 (and 3).
Who was in the original team that wrote EP 1 ?
Here's Kent's post about this
So yeah the new team is the one who created the dumb generic plot with Abel and the raiders apparently.
Im not sure we probs will never get a full picture but for what we know so far about what the original story was:
One draft involved a lot of moving, which was why Clem drives a car, the car would have been how they got around. Not sure if this is directly linked to the original plot but it probably is.
Then apparently episode 1 was largely the same with the kid cast and the school, but Mundle's team decided to change what they were originally going for and make it about the Delta. Abel was apparently not in episode 1 (or existed at all, along with the rest of the Delta) until his team came in. A lot of the same, but he said a lot was rewritten to fit where the story would be going in the future. AJ apparently wasnt as much of a a central character either. (making me think the plot might have been chasing him down, and traveling place to place to find him or something)
Thats about all we know so far about what the original plot was, the biggest take away is that there wasnt going to be a Delta.
I agree with almost everything said here. TFS does not feel like a TWD game at all. It's tone and focus is completly different to the previous 4 seasons. (I must say at least episode 1 felt like a TWD game unlike eps 2 and 3) Here are my main issues with the game.
The school and woods are boring, and that's where we spend 85% of the game. The train station and boat were really cool, but we only spend 2 and 1 scenes in each of them respectively. This means that there have only been 5 locations in TFS total (counting the fishing house.) Back in season 2, we had the rest stop, campsite, Luke's cabin, the hideouts with Pete/Nick, the lodge with Kenny, the Howe's truck, Howe's (which was huge, much bigger than Ericson's) the historical site, the Civil War museum, the lake and the unfinished, house, and other rest stop where Kenny VS Jane occurs, and Wellington.
The first 4 seasons had some really interesting locations, but TFS's are boring for the most part and the bland graphics don't help.
I'm not sure what happened here. Abel was really cool in episode 1, and I really liked his scene. It was really well written and his voice actor did a great job. The choice of shoving him into walkers was cool. Then in episode 2 he just becomes boring. His personality loses all it's development and he just becomes an asshole that shoots toddlers with scramblers.
Lilly doesn't look or feel like Lilly. I get that part of this is due to save file and story builder limitations, but still. She literally has under 30 minutes of screen time and then just dies in half of our playthroughs. She is clearly only there to establish TFS as a season 1 sequel. Her personality shows literally no resemblance to season 1 Lilly and she looks nothing like season 1 Lilly. She might as well be a different character
The other antagonists are boring. Oscar from Telltale's Jurassic ParkYonaton just dies right away. Gina/Sullene don't do anything. Armando and Gad have ZERO lines in most playthroughs. Michael had this really cool concept art where he could have been a really coll villain that gave the player chills if he were like Carver or Randall, but no he's just another raider that dies.
I'm not saying that TFS should've killed all but 3 characters like in season 2 but seriously nobody has died. It's no wonder this game doesn't feel like a The Walking Dead game.
Episode 1 was really good with deaths. Marlon and Brody both had well made deaths and the player definitely knew Marlon well before he died. The player also at least exchanged dialogue with Brody before she died. That was 2 kills and determinantly 1 unknown (Abel) in the episode.
Episode 2 did not have enough deaths. We had Mitch, whose death was well made but helps differentiates TFS Lilly from s1 Lilly. That was it. Not even counting with Yonaton since we didn't even know him by name.
Episode 3 literally has no boarding school kids die. Abel always dies and either Lilly or James dies. the raiders dont count since we don't know them at all.
These deaths are literally nothing compared to the prior seasons.
TDLR: you know something is wrong when your discord server refers to the game as "The Final Shit"
That's exactly what it meant. Mr Mudle also answered a question stating he would've been a moving goalpost.
The school would be more interesting if we got to explore it more.
Not that that matters, considering we didn't do much in it.
Also, you forgot the Trailer Park, Bridge, Matthew's shack, and powerplant.
Yeah, I liked Abel for his part overall.
I mean, he could've been handled a tad better in Episode 2 and I initially preferred the idea of him being less of a villain than opportunist, but he was technically the best of the villains thus far regardless.
Sigh...I was kinda mixed on Lilith in episode 2, but yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, that's kinda the whole recipe.
Ch'yeah.
I need to get back to that.
The latter in particular is kinda weird for reasons I'll get into at some point.
Oh really now?
Eh, that's not really a problem.
If anything, the opposite has had an effect.
Unless you looked in the files and/or credits, but that's literally it. He hadn't really even done anything.
Oh-hohoho, you bluffin?
I'm not gonna lie they had me for the first half lol
inb4 episode 4 turns out to be horrible so we can use the meme and have it be mathematically correct.
(although id much rather episode 4 be good, but damn the meme material tho)