You are becoming ridiculous. He apologized several times?! Who the fuck cares how many times he apologized... This is not something that you can just apologize for. And Kenny was anything but calm.
Lee: Look Kenny... Back at the drug store when we all taught Duck was bitten, I gave him the benefit of the doubt... Maybe we should do the same now.
Kenny: That was different, Duck wasn't bitten...
Really, how exactly did he know that back then. He never checked, a zombie fall on top of his son who was covered in mud and didn't utter a word. In my book Duck had a better chance of turning into a walker than Larry. Kenny is just a hypocrite.
Kenny: C'mon, we know this guys isn't going make it...
Really, do we know it? To me he tries to convince himself
And now the most important part. Go to 1:54 second and carefully watch how Larry's mouth moves because of Lee's CPR. Now at 1:58-1:59 you can clearly see how his mouth moved differently indicating that he might still be alive.
And even if that turned out false, it was Lilly and Lee's decision, and their lives at stake. Kenny can burn in hell for not respecting their choices!
Yes, you should respect someone's choice to put your life in danger.
Had we NOT been locked in the meat locker, I might have just grabbed Kenny and Clementine and walked away, and let Lily try to save her Dad on her own terms. In one of these threads (I think it is the Larry has his own support groups thread), a real life paramedic discusses exactly why Larry may have been a lost cause (his username is Shaggywang, I believe).
Being apologetic and soft with Lily does matter when someone is falsely assigning malicious intent to Kenny's actions. He is clearly not out for revenge when he suggests destroying Larry's brains. Also, considering that he felt his life was in danger, and the life's of his wife and kid were also potentially in danger, Kenny is pretty calm. My example of "not calm" would be Larry, just before he had his heart attack.
Larry is what medical professionals refer to as "clinically dead" - his heart and his breathing are not working on their own. This is vastly different from being assumed to be bitten (Larry is assuming that Duck is bitten just as much as Kenny assumes he isn't - neither one is engaged in actually confirming a bite). Also, there is no way you can now say that Larry was less likely to turn in a Walker than someone that was bit - once we die, we will ALL become Walkers, this issue is not up for debate. However, Larry was closer to death in the meat locker than Duck was, even if he HAD been bitten, because a Zombie bite is not immediately fatal. Cardiac Arrest, however, even with intervention, CAN be immediately fatal. So, the two situations do not really compare, making Kenny's assessment somewhat correct.
Everything else you bring up is metagaming. If this were a real life situation, we would not have a youtube video showing us the outcome of the other choice, nor would we have the choice to "rewind" when we feel we make a wrong decision. That's why this decision is more about what you feel is important, morality or pragmatism in the face of danger, not about whether Larry lives or dies. And nobody is going to care if you took the moral high road when everyone else is dead. Some people might forgive you for being pragmatic, though, even if they thought you made the wrong choice at the time. That's why, in retrospect, I would be able to forgive Kenny for choosing to keep us all alive at the expense of Larry, even if I thought he was wrong at the time.
he didn't come off as calm to me, or else he wouldn't have preemptively dropped a salt lick on a mans head. rational would be suggesting we tie his legs up. he also tells lee to "hurry the fuck up" when lee is trying to get them out of the meat locker. he then hides in the barn when you're attacked by danny. right, very repentant.
He is sorry to Lily that he has to make the choice and he looks to Lee for guidance after everyone is safe from the farm. I call that pretty repentant. (BTW, which is more than she or Larry ever do when they both attempt to kill Duck, even though they were clearly in the wrong). I also do not see him getting in Lily's face about it once the deed is done. He leaves her to grieve, and even acknowledges that there is going to be fallout. He is mad at YOU for not having his back when he has made the hard decision. Why should he be apologetic towards you?
Also, not being calm would be Larry before his heart attack. That dude cannot be calm and rational to (pardon the pun) save his life. Compared to that, Kenny is pretty damn calm.
His tone, his vocabulary, and his stance prior to dropping the salt block implies regret, not vengeance.
I'm curious. In what way did he betray you in your playthrough? I've pretty much sided with him the whole time.
if he didn't betray you, it means you helped him kill larry.
and how? while getting attacked in the barn, kenny is supposed to have your back. he stays hidden instead like a coward. lilly ends up coming to your rescue.
if he didn't betray you, it means you helped him kill larry.
and how? while getting attacked in the barn, kenny is supposed to have your back. he stays hidden instead like a coward. lilly ends up coming to your rescue.
Ah that makes sense. I sided with him so he has never betrayed me in my playthrough.
So he doesn't help when you decide not to back him up. That sucks but it makes sense too.
Ah that makes sense. I sided with him so he has never betrayed me in my playthrough.
So he doesn't help when you decide not to back him up. That sucks but it makes sense too.
To elaborate, he doesn't risk his life to save yours when you are wrestling the first brother for control of the gun. It makes perfect sense.
If it were Larry looking down the barrel of that gun, and I was in Kenny's place, I probably wouldn't help him, either. Not if there was a good chance that I was going to get shot in the process, and my family still needed to be rescued.
I certainly wouldn't let myself die to save the guy who put my life in danger, and expect him to then go rescue my wife and kid.
because this is a leetatorship, and i told him to back off while i revive larry; which looked like it was working pretty well.
and he doesn't have to apologize to me because i'm done with him. first chance i get he's gone
Going pretty well? I've seen the video - his lip quivers. Most people here probably wouldn't be so dead set sure he would live if one of the writers hadn't clarified that he had actually moved.
Read the post by Shaggywang on the "***** was actually alive!" thread, because he succinctly explains why the people here are deluding themselves if they think that the minute lip movement meant that they had saved Larry's life.
I really hope I never have to put my life in anyone else's hands.
His weakness is people who put their morality and emotions over living. That's why he couldn't save Lee in the barn - he had to recover from his "kryptonite".:D
His weakness is people who put their morality and emotions over living. That's why he couldn't save Lee in the barn - he had to recover from his "kryptonite".:D
Kenny is nothing without my Lee. Even after helping him killing Larry (which resulted in him helping out Lee in the barn), he still looks to Lee for support when he wants to move out of the motor inn.
And apparently we still end up with Kenny anyway, because Episode 3 trailer showed them in the RV with Ben.
Kenny is nothing without my Lee. Even after helping him killing Larry (which resulted in him helping out Lee in the barn), he still looks to Lee for support when he wants to move out of the motor inn.
And apparently we still end up with Kenny anyway, because Episode 3 trailer showed them in the RV with Ben.
It's perfectly okay for a sidekick to have a superpower...
Going pretty well? I've seen the video - his lip quivers. Most people here probably wouldn't be so dead set sure he would live if one of the writers hadn't clarified that he had actually moved.
Read the post by Shaggywang on the "***** was actually alive!" thread, because he succinctly explains why the people here are deluding themselves if they think that the minute lip movement meant that they had saved Larry's life.
I really hope I never have to put my life in anyone else's hands.
well i was certain because of how the game play happened. my gf played the first time, and she performed slow CPR on larry, and kenny dropped the lick on him; i didn't notice any facial movement. in my playthrough, i was very quick in hopes of saving him, and that's when i noticed movements.
either way, if kenny couldn't wait to know 100% certain, then fuck him. it would have only taken an additional 5-10 seconds for his eyes to open, then there would have been absolutely no doubt.
well i was certain because of how the game play happened. my gf played the first time, and she performed slow CPR on larry, and kenny dropped the lick on him; i didn't notice any facial movement. in my playthrough, i was very quick in hopes of saving him, and that's when i noticed movements.
either way, if kenny couldn't wait to know 100% certain, then fuck him. it would have only taken an additional 5-10 seconds for his eyes to open, then there would have been absolutely no doubt.
Again, you're meta-gaming. Your playthrough was directly influenced by the fact that you had watched it before hand (and you can swear it wasn't, but it was. Hence why you went "faster"). When I heard that it had come out, I specifically avoided the forums and other spoilers until steam had it downloaded and I had played it through one time - I think the only time I looked for help was when I couldn't figure out what the controls were wanting me to do to get past the first walker in the truck (two arrows on the side of the screen really weren't enough of a hint for me to shake my mouse back and forth).
Also, you're assuming that the amount of time it would take to "confirm" would have been negligible. Remember, that if you fail, and delay too long, Larry will become a threat to your safety (you either have the time to save his life, or the time to prevent him from turning. You can't expect the CPR to work if you take time to "restrain" or "prepare" to kill him the exact moment he turns). Also, manually checking for pulse and breath is not a 100 percent accurate method of determining some one's ability to survive an initial heart attack. For all you know, Larry was dead the instant he hit the floor, and all you are managing to do is delay his blood from coagulating in his veins.
So you say you were absolutely certain that, in five or ten seconds he would have opened his eyes (not really physically possible, but I get what you mean - that you saved his life). What happens in thirty seconds with no change? One minute? How long CAN we reasonably delay Kenny, expecting him to wait for your undeniable proof? Practically I can tell you that the proof I would need would be Larry having a regular heart beat (circulation) and resume breathing on his own (air) - this is the criteria for determining when to stop CPR, until a doctor says otherwise. How is five or ten seconds going to, without a doubt, prove that?
Dolphin is another name for the Dorado fish. It doesn't mean the mammal. As a sportsfisherman I facepalm so hard when these two get mixed up XD
Exactly!! Too many people hear the word Dolphin and immediatly think of Flipper!
The mahi-mahi or common dolphinfish[1] (Coryphaena hippurus) is a surface-dwelling ray-finned fish found in off-shore temperate, tropical and subtropical waters worldwide. Also known widely as dorado, it is one of only two members of the Coryphaenidae family, the other being the pompano dolphinfish.
The common English name of dolphin causes much confusion. This fish is not related to the marine mammals also known as dolphins (family Delphinidae). Additionally, two species of dolphinfish exist, the common dolphinfish (Coryphaena hippurus) and the pompano dolphin (Coryphaena equiselis). Both these species are commonly marketed by their Pacific name, mahi-mahi.
I think what we have here is the Schroedinger's Douchebag Paradox. Because only one lee can make any given set of decisions at one time Lee can not witness both behaviors kenny will show therefore Kenny is both a Quantum Douchebag and a Quantum Good Guy until Lee makes his decisions and Collapses the Waveform
I think what we have here is the Schroedinger's Douchebag Paradox. Because only one lee can make any given set of decisions at one time Lee can not witness both behaviors kenny will show therefore Kenny is both a Quantum Douchebag and a Quantum Good Guy until Lee makes his decisions and Collapses the Waveform
I think what we have here is the Schroedinger's Douchebag Paradox. Because only one lee can make any given set of decisions at one time Lee can not witness both behaviors kenny will show therefore Kenny is both a Quantum Douchebag and a Quantum Good Guy until Lee makes his decisions and Collapses the Waveform
Oh hey... my headache was just replaced by a soothing cool sensation. Thanks.
So you say you were absolutely certain that, in five or ten seconds he would have opened his eyes (not really physically possible, but I get what you mean - that you saved his life). What happens in thirty seconds with no change? One minute? How long CAN we reasonably delay Kenny, expecting him to wait for your undeniable proof? Practically I can tell you that the proof I would need would be Larry having a regular heart beat (circulation) and resume breathing on his own (air) - this is the criteria for determining when to stop CPR, until a doctor says otherwise. How is five or ten seconds going to, without a doubt, prove that?
i'd wait until he changes, simple as that; but using your timeframe, give me 2-3 minutes of no heart beat and pulse -- not 30-45 seconds.
and with that said, from the groups perspective. they are not even 100% sure if what ben said was true. he could have been lying and was actually bit for all they know.
fun fact if you have carley instead of doug you actually get to punch andy until she tells you to stop with doug you do it till lee gets bored / tired .
I really hope that TTG does this with kenny for episode . you can do some light punching on him so he'll have a nose bleed and a black eye but otherwise be fine and learn his lesson or Lee can pretend Kennys face is clay and he's reshaping it like Andy St. John's face
on an unrelated note what the hell was with the punch andy saint john hotspot while he's dragging you you could just not do anything and it wont change anything
Sisterofshane, you keep repeating the same thing over and over again, disregarding the most important stuff.
1. Kenny didn't had to risk his live to save yours. DANNY had turned his back to HIM. It was 100% safe. Kenny had a bigger chance of dropping that salt-lick on his foot than being threatened by Danny. And remind me who's assess were we on our way to save? His family's! If you tell me otherwise than apparently this discussion has gone to hell. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior no matter if I supported him or not.
2. I read what Shaggywang said about CPR and this is more meta-gaming than anything else that has been said here. Every NORMAL person would first try to help a dying person. After reading all your Kenny excuses I sure hope to never be stuck with you in a zombie apocalypse.
I will repeat it for the last time because I'm getting sick of this debate.
When somebody (Lee and Lilly) decides to risk their life in order to save somebody else, you don't f*** that. You let either help or back off. That's what a real man does. Kenny was in no danger at all. If someone was about to be bitten that would be either Lilly or Lee. If someone was bitten then I guess they wouldn't mind keeping the zombie down while Kenny smashed its head. My view is that it wouldn't have come to that.
Lee is the leader of this group whether or not Kenny wants it. Lee is the guy to always risk his life and he is the one that gets the job done. So this is not about supportive that coward's back. It's about supporting Lee's back. Lee makes the tough choices so it's his call if he will save Larry or not. If Kenny wanted my Lee's respect, he should've helped despite the risks or just backed off. In episode 3 I will be sure to give that guy hell.
What Kenny did is unforgivable because he managed to BETRAY Lee twice in less than 10 min.
This is about morals and respecting people's decisions.
Play the game one more time and even you will notice what a doucebag Kenny is. Throughout the entire second episode he will always show less he cares about anybody but his family.
I guess this is the difference between Rick Grimes and Kenny. Rick cares about everybody, even though he cares for he family the most. Kenny cares only about his family and himself. In my book Kenny is a trash that I'm going to work hard to throw out of my group. Rick is a hero and a real man who realizes the consequences of his mistakes and is ready to admit them. Kenny doesn't really regret anything and is all about fake excuses.
P.S This topic is about people who can no longer stand Kenny around. I don't understand why don't you make a "We love Kenny" thread and go defend him there. It's really boring to see same people's comments with same arguments over and over and over again. Let's give space to some new fresh people and points of view?
I've already responded about the RV and the the Walker information on the last page, but I can sum up my argument here. *snipped for brevity*
Except as said, Kenny apparently only extends an invitation to Lee on the basis that Lee "earned his place", nobody else mentions that Kenny extended them the same offer or even phrased it as an option. Hell, Lee even tries to reassure Mark that "Kenny won't abandon us" (even though that's what his plan entails). Besides which, there's the small issue of trying to house the entire group (which is what, 8 people?) in addition to provisions in a single RV.
Just to point out, but Ben didn't share that information before it had the potential to be deadly. Incidentally, the guy who starts throwing a shit-fit before an examination of the facts and started the whole panic about how the guy had to have been bitten was... Kenny.
Check the sequence of events again with the Walker attack; Katjaa called both Lee and Kenny over. Even if we assume Kenny went back to his original position to stroke his pipe again, it's not like he was a block away. If Kenny were to go around the back of the RV, he's actually just as close (if not closer) to the struggle than Mark/Larry.
The excuse that Kenny lacked a "proper" weapon is a bad one (particularly considering Lee saved Katjaa's life while unarmed). The assertion that firearms were "useless" in that situation is really somewhat funny... since Carley actually does end up shooting that Walker. It's really not that difficult to make it relatively safe to fire in such a scenario, simply by getting closer and/or changing position (which is what Carley does).
There's also the matter that even after the attack, Kenny doesn't show much concern for his wife. He doesn't try to comfort her (I'm not even sure he mentions the fact that the poor woman nearly died), etc. his immediate reaction to the attack is to try and lay the blame on somebody else (in this case, Ben).
After Larry's attack, sure, there's an added impetus for getting the guy's medication. However, your assertion was that his pills were the motivation for trying to break into the pharmacy prior to the arrival of Lee's group, and nowhere is that suggested. Lily simply says they were trying to get into the pharmacy since they got there, that's it - she doesn't mention her father's medication with regards to the previous attempts to break into the pharmacy whatsoever.
Considering the context, i.e. a direct question about camp leadership, the simple fact Lee brings up Larry's experience in response to that question is an implication that it's been used in and of itself. Otherwise there'd be no reason for him to mention it.
There's practical reasons for not letting strangers in or rushing out to save them outside the drug store: Even assuming Lee's group wasn't dangerous, as Larry notes, the bigger danger is that Lee's group could've lead the Walkers outside right back to them. Honestly, I wouldn't trust Lee either in Larry's shoes. As I've said, most of us tend not to open our home to strangers or pick up hitchhikers. Crime of passion or not, I certainly wouldn't trust a convicted murderer around my family. It's also unknown if Larry even knew about Lee getting his pills (as I've mentioned in other threads), Larry was semi-conscious until the drug store was under siege and they needed to evacuate.
With Ben and company, Lily's concern wasn't that they were dangerous, it was that they were more mouths to feed and there's no guarantee they can meaningfully contribute to offset that. Even then, she never advocates chucking them out to fend for themselves.
The key differences with the St. John's brothers: their offer can benefit the group, and there's no notion of taking them in, letting them stay at the inn and adopting them into the group.
Had we NOT been locked in the meat locker, I might have just grabbed Kenny and Clementine and walked away, and let Lily try to save her Dad on her own terms. In one of these threads (I think it is the Larry has his own support groups thread), a real life paramedic discusses exactly why Larry may have been a lost cause (his username is Shaggywang, I believe).
It wasn't really about whether or not Larry was a gonner it was just the brash way in which Kenny dealt with the situation and the fact he tried to make out that what he had done was the ballsy thing to do, calling Lee a coward and claiming he didn't have the nerve to make the big decisions.
The fact is Larry probably was going to die without any real medical expertise, however Kenny needed to calm down and think about Lily and the effect that the situation would have on her; instead of jumping straight to conclusions he could have sided with Lee whilst trying to bring her round to the reality of the situation in a compationate manner and ultimately give her the choice of making the decision herself, she was his daughter after all. Because Kenny had absolutely zero patience in the situation though he completely tanished an already volatile group, took away a mans slight chance of survival, and potentially ruined the (already grim) life of a woman by splatting her father's skull all over her chin.
Have you seen Shaun of the Dead? If not then you may not want to read the rest of this paragraph or watch the link, but at the end of the film when it's reveiled Shaun's mother had been bitten the 'Irish guy (twat)' was pretty much Kenny, 'Shaun' was Lily and 'Shaun's girlfriend' Lee.
I seem to remember Glen saying something about hope at the end of EP. 1. It was in reference to the woman at the motor inn who shots herself. Kenny took hope from Lilly. I am waiting for Lilly to kick the crap out of Kenny. With out hope all is lost.
It wasn't really about whether or not Larry was a gonner it was just the brash way in which Kenny dealt with the situation and the fact he tried to make out that what he had done was the ballsy thing to do, calling Lee a coward and claiming he didn't have the nerve to make the big decisions.
The fact is Larry probably was going to die without any real medical expertise, however Kenny needed to calm down and think about Lily and the effect that the situation would have on her; instead of jumping straight to conclusions he could have sided with Lee whilst trying to bring her round to the reality of the situation in a compationate manner and ultimately give her the choice of making the decision herself, she was his daughter after all. Because Kenny had absolutely zero patience in the situation though he completely tanished an already volatile group, took away a mans slight chance of survival, and potentially ruined the (already grim) life of a woman by splatting her father's skull all over her chin.
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. It wouldn't have been that hard to make things fairly safe just in case Larry did turn, since atleast Lilly was wearing a belt that could've been used as a restraint.
And for all of the griping about how Lilly isn't trusting and welcoming of outsiders, Kenny did a lot more to confirm that mindset than he ever did to dispel it (hell, even before the Larry incident, he suggests that the group can simply take the Dairy by force if they need to).
I tend to agree that Kenny's motivation was impatience, I'd actually go a step farther and say his entire motivation for the act was impatience. Kenny's "concern" about Larry turning strikes me as being pretty damn insincere. His whole attitude, e.g. the "hurry the fuck up" line he spouts after the event tells me he saw the time spent on trying to save Larry as time not being spent to save his family.
I don't know about you guys, but if I was in the situation I would have sided with Kenny 100%. Whether or not Larry could have made it doesn't matter, the fact was that there was a man in a locked room who might die and come back. Also for everyone who says that Kenny doesn't help you with Danny, if you choose to help Lilly that's true. If however you choose Kenny he does in fact help you with Danny. When you're fighting with Andy, Lilly has the chance to shoot Andy but she keeps her gun lowered as some kind of revenge for her dad, so screw Lilly and her dead ass dad
Lilly doesn't rush out to help while in the drugstore...true, but kenny doesn't do anything at that time either...he doesn't even aid Duck till Carley saves him and then all kenny does is huddle down untill he sees his chance to run...then once in the drug store he immediatly trys to assume the leadership role.
Larry does punch Lee in the face. Could it be that he done to protect everyone from someone he suspects is a murderer and not because he is a dick? The fact that Larry doesn't mention anything about Lee to everyone does show that he is concearned about the saftey of the group.
As far as being an asset to the group I have noticed everyone else pitching in to help except Kenny. In episode one he gives orders and then sits back to rest. Episode two he sids in the shade of the RV that somehow has become "his." It seems to me that he is just using the group as zombie fodder for his family and fuck everyone else.
And if killing Larry was the right thing to do then why did Kenny get that "oh shit I just realized I fucked up" look on his face right after he done it?
According to Katja they just drove past many ppl who needed help in the begining but we know that Kenny didn't hesitate to bum off of Hershal. The sorry peice of shit didn't even try to help with the fence.
This last bit is for the Kenny Supporters:
No matter what decisions I make I have found that the only way for you to keep Kenny as a friend is to blindly follow his every command and never ever question him...at all. So you have to ask yourself this...Are you ready to be his bitch for the next 3 episodes?
No matter what decisions I make I have found that the only way for you to keep Kenny as a friend is to blindly follow his every command and never ever question him...at all. So you have to ask yourself this...Are you ready to be his bitch for the next 3 episodes?
exactly, and nicely put. this, and this alone is why i'm done with kenny.
I must have missed the part where Kenny cowered in ep 1 the 5 times I played through it.
No, Larry is just a dick.
You've obviously overlooked a lot of what Kenny has done because you just don't like him. And he fixed the RV.
Maybe because he just destroyed a man's head right infront of his daughter.
Because I'm sure we would all stop to help every last idiot when Z day was in full swing.
And as for the last bit, you're just doing it wrong.
simply replay episode 1 for the 6th time and try to pay attention (I know its hard with all the zombies) but it goes like this...kenny gets the attention of every zombie around...stuff stuff stuff...zombie prepares to eat some Duck...Carley destroyes zombie (hence why Duck is covered with muck)...and then (this is the part I am talking about)...Katja is holding Duck and Kenny squats down and puts his arms around both and just sits tight not trying in anyway to help.
Larry is a dick but, he is a dick who showes he cares about more than HIS OWN family.
What HAS Kenny done...and I don't like him for lots of reasons but the one that springs to mind first is how he did't help me with Danny
Im sure we wouldn't help every idiot...Kenny didn't, but he did get angry when Larry didn't want to help him
And maybe I am doing things wrong...like not seeing what a DB Kenny was at the very beginning
I must have missed the part where Kenny cowered in ep 1 the 5 times I played through it.
We will start with this.
On the farm in ep. 1 he grabs duck and just runs away. coward
Lee and Kenny could have saved the guy (cannot remember his name)
That is 1 killed because Kenny is a coward.
When we get to Macon ( we know there is walking dead)
Kenny "hey you friendly?" = stupid
the Zachs attack he grabs his family and just huddles there. Coward
ep 2 the Saint John boys walking down the road. (i have Doug so i have an alarm)
The rule is not to engage anyone. Guess who stands up and confronts them?
Yep Kenny again Stupid
Kenny kills Larry thay makes 2 killed because of him.
That is just a few examples.
simply replay episode 1 for the 6th time and try to pay attention (I know its hard with all the zombies) but it goes like this...kenny gets the attention of every zombie around...stuff stuff stuff...zombie prepares to eat some Duck...Carley destroyes zombie (hence why Duck is covered with muck)...and then (this is the part I am talking about)...Katja is holding Duck and Kenny squats down and puts his arms around both and just sits tight not trying in anyway to help.
Well everyone's favorite Lilly was against even going out to save Lee and everyone, she yelled at Carley and Glenn for going out and helping. And hey if my son almost died in front of me, I'd hold him too
Necrosoul and deadk1ng, you are absolutely right. Kenny is always bossing around not really doing anything. It was also very annoying when he wanted you to pick the lock but he didn't help at all. He even had the courage to say "You know how to pick a lock... I mean you're urban...". What an insolence.
In my almost 100% Lilly playthrough she is very caring and warm towards me. She apologizes when she behaves a little harsher and is backing me up much better than Kenny did when I played team Kenny.
For example when you prevent Clementine from eating you have the options "1. Kenny get your gun or 2. Lilly grab a knife"
Guess what? 1. Kenny is so slow that he doesn't even reach for his gun. There is also Katjaa that screams "Kenny, NOO"
However, if you choose option 2 Lilly not only grabs a knife but is almost close to stabbing one of the brothers before they point a gun at her.
She is a better at everything. She is a better leader, better survivor, better friend. She is tougher than Kenny in every way possible. She is also an attactive female, but we can't blame Kenny for failing that. She is better fit to fill the parent role for Clem than Kenny, but again we can't blame him for that.
P.S Mooneysuzuki, so you are telling me that if a group of strangers attract every (un)living zombie around to the building you are hiding at and somebody from your group goes out shooting a gun attracting even more zombies, you will be okay with that? You will be willing to accept some complete strangers, one of whom is covered is mud and is probably bitten. And those people are not only strangers, but they are even ready to pick a fight with your group. You are okay with that?
pop quiz hotshot...you and your family are camping when you find yourself surrounded by wolves, your son is knocked to the ground and is about to be mauled, a stranger comes outa left feild and saves your son...what do you do?...what. do. you. do?
a) huddle on the ground with your wife and son and pray the stranger saves the day or
b) stand with the stranger ready to fight tooth and nail to insure your families saftey
Yeah, reasoning with Kenny is awful.
Maybe he's a good friend and all, but all he thinks about is HIMSELF!
Larry could still be alive, but this F*** killed the poor old guy.
Must admit I didnt like Larry at first, but hey, he's just protecting his doughter!
Kenny maybe thought it was a smar moved to kill him, but I assume that will lead into Lilly leaving the group.
Comments
Yes, you should respect someone's choice to put your life in danger.
Had we NOT been locked in the meat locker, I might have just grabbed Kenny and Clementine and walked away, and let Lily try to save her Dad on her own terms. In one of these threads (I think it is the Larry has his own support groups thread), a real life paramedic discusses exactly why Larry may have been a lost cause (his username is Shaggywang, I believe).
Being apologetic and soft with Lily does matter when someone is falsely assigning malicious intent to Kenny's actions. He is clearly not out for revenge when he suggests destroying Larry's brains. Also, considering that he felt his life was in danger, and the life's of his wife and kid were also potentially in danger, Kenny is pretty calm. My example of "not calm" would be Larry, just before he had his heart attack.
Larry is what medical professionals refer to as "clinically dead" - his heart and his breathing are not working on their own. This is vastly different from being assumed to be bitten (Larry is assuming that Duck is bitten just as much as Kenny assumes he isn't - neither one is engaged in actually confirming a bite). Also, there is no way you can now say that Larry was less likely to turn in a Walker than someone that was bit - once we die, we will ALL become Walkers, this issue is not up for debate. However, Larry was closer to death in the meat locker than Duck was, even if he HAD been bitten, because a Zombie bite is not immediately fatal. Cardiac Arrest, however, even with intervention, CAN be immediately fatal. So, the two situations do not really compare, making Kenny's assessment somewhat correct.
Everything else you bring up is metagaming. If this were a real life situation, we would not have a youtube video showing us the outcome of the other choice, nor would we have the choice to "rewind" when we feel we make a wrong decision. That's why this decision is more about what you feel is important, morality or pragmatism in the face of danger, not about whether Larry lives or dies. And nobody is going to care if you took the moral high road when everyone else is dead. Some people might forgive you for being pragmatic, though, even if they thought you made the wrong choice at the time. That's why, in retrospect, I would be able to forgive Kenny for choosing to keep us all alive at the expense of Larry, even if I thought he was wrong at the time.
He is sorry to Lily that he has to make the choice and he looks to Lee for guidance after everyone is safe from the farm. I call that pretty repentant. (BTW, which is more than she or Larry ever do when they both attempt to kill Duck, even though they were clearly in the wrong). I also do not see him getting in Lily's face about it once the deed is done. He leaves her to grieve, and even acknowledges that there is going to be fallout. He is mad at YOU for not having his back when he has made the hard decision. Why should he be apologetic towards you?
Also, not being calm would be Larry before his heart attack. That dude cannot be calm and rational to (pardon the pun) save his life. Compared to that, Kenny is pretty damn calm.
His tone, his vocabulary, and his stance prior to dropping the salt block implies regret, not vengeance.
if he didn't betray you, it means you helped him kill larry.
and how? while getting attacked in the barn, kenny is supposed to have your back. he stays hidden instead like a coward. lilly ends up coming to your rescue.
because this is a leetatorship, and i told him to back off while i revive larry; which looked like it was working pretty well.
and he doesn't have to apologize to me because i'm done with him. first chance i get he's gone
Ah that makes sense. I sided with him so he has never betrayed me in my playthrough.
So he doesn't help when you decide not to back him up. That sucks but it makes sense too.
To elaborate, he doesn't risk his life to save yours when you are wrestling the first brother for control of the gun. It makes perfect sense.
If it were Larry looking down the barrel of that gun, and I was in Kenny's place, I probably wouldn't help him, either. Not if there was a good chance that I was going to get shot in the process, and my family still needed to be rescued.
I certainly wouldn't let myself die to save the guy who put my life in danger, and expect him to then go rescue my wife and kid.
Going pretty well? I've seen the video - his lip quivers. Most people here probably wouldn't be so dead set sure he would live if one of the writers hadn't clarified that he had actually moved.
Read the post by Shaggywang on the "***** was actually alive!" thread, because he succinctly explains why the people here are deluding themselves if they think that the minute lip movement meant that they had saved Larry's life.
I really hope I never have to put my life in anyone else's hands.
It's his superpower.
His weakness is people who put their morality and emotions over living. That's why he couldn't save Lee in the barn - he had to recover from his "kryptonite".:D
Kenny is nothing without my Lee.
And apparently we still end up with Kenny anyway, because Episode 3 trailer showed them in the RV with Ben.
It's perfectly okay for a sidekick to have a superpower...
He's just looking for the hero he deserves...:p
Sorta like the Green Hornet and Kato?
LOL, a little obscure for me, I actually had to look them up!
But, yes!
Dammit, I'm old.
well i was certain because of how the game play happened. my gf played the first time, and she performed slow CPR on larry, and kenny dropped the lick on him; i didn't notice any facial movement. in my playthrough, i was very quick in hopes of saving him, and that's when i noticed movements.
either way, if kenny couldn't wait to know 100% certain, then fuck him. it would have only taken an additional 5-10 seconds for his eyes to open, then there would have been absolutely no doubt.
Again, you're meta-gaming. Your playthrough was directly influenced by the fact that you had watched it before hand (and you can swear it wasn't, but it was. Hence why you went "faster"). When I heard that it had come out, I specifically avoided the forums and other spoilers until steam had it downloaded and I had played it through one time - I think the only time I looked for help was when I couldn't figure out what the controls were wanting me to do to get past the first walker in the truck (two arrows on the side of the screen really weren't enough of a hint for me to shake my mouse back and forth).
Also, you're assuming that the amount of time it would take to "confirm" would have been negligible. Remember, that if you fail, and delay too long, Larry will become a threat to your safety (you either have the time to save his life, or the time to prevent him from turning. You can't expect the CPR to work if you take time to "restrain" or "prepare" to kill him the exact moment he turns). Also, manually checking for pulse and breath is not a 100 percent accurate method of determining some one's ability to survive an initial heart attack. For all you know, Larry was dead the instant he hit the floor, and all you are managing to do is delay his blood from coagulating in his veins.
So you say you were absolutely certain that, in five or ten seconds he would have opened his eyes (not really physically possible, but I get what you mean - that you saved his life). What happens in thirty seconds with no change? One minute? How long CAN we reasonably delay Kenny, expecting him to wait for your undeniable proof? Practically I can tell you that the proof I would need would be Larry having a regular heart beat (circulation) and resume breathing on his own (air) - this is the criteria for determining when to stop CPR, until a doctor says otherwise. How is five or ten seconds going to, without a doubt, prove that?
Exactly!! Too many people hear the word Dolphin and immediatly think of Flipper!
The mahi-mahi or common dolphinfish[1] (Coryphaena hippurus) is a surface-dwelling ray-finned fish found in off-shore temperate, tropical and subtropical waters worldwide. Also known widely as dorado, it is one of only two members of the Coryphaenidae family, the other being the pompano dolphinfish.
The common English name of dolphin causes much confusion. This fish is not related to the marine mammals also known as dolphins (family Delphinidae). Additionally, two species of dolphinfish exist, the common dolphinfish (Coryphaena hippurus) and the pompano dolphin (Coryphaena equiselis). Both these species are commonly marketed by their Pacific name, mahi-mahi.
Beautiful. This deserves framing.
Oh hey... my headache was just replaced by a soothing cool sensation. Thanks.
i'd wait until he changes, simple as that; but using your timeframe, give me 2-3 minutes of no heart beat and pulse -- not 30-45 seconds.
and with that said, from the groups perspective. they are not even 100% sure if what ben said was true. he could have been lying and was actually bit for all they know.
I really hope that TTG does this with kenny for episode . you can do some light punching on him so he'll have a nose bleed and a black eye but otherwise be fine and learn his lesson or Lee can pretend Kennys face is clay and he's reshaping it like Andy St. John's face
on an unrelated note what the hell was with the punch andy saint john hotspot while he's dragging you you could just not do anything and it wont change anything
Sisterofshane, you keep repeating the same thing over and over again, disregarding the most important stuff.
1. Kenny didn't had to risk his live to save yours. DANNY had turned his back to HIM. It was 100% safe. Kenny had a bigger chance of dropping that salt-lick on his foot than being threatened by Danny. And remind me who's assess were we on our way to save? His family's! If you tell me otherwise than apparently this discussion has gone to hell. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior no matter if I supported him or not.
2. I read what Shaggywang said about CPR and this is more meta-gaming than anything else that has been said here. Every NORMAL person would first try to help a dying person. After reading all your Kenny excuses I sure hope to never be stuck with you in a zombie apocalypse.
I will repeat it for the last time because I'm getting sick of this debate.
When somebody (Lee and Lilly) decides to risk their life in order to save somebody else, you don't f*** that. You let either help or back off. That's what a real man does. Kenny was in no danger at all. If someone was about to be bitten that would be either Lilly or Lee. If someone was bitten then I guess they wouldn't mind keeping the zombie down while Kenny smashed its head. My view is that it wouldn't have come to that.
Lee is the leader of this group whether or not Kenny wants it. Lee is the guy to always risk his life and he is the one that gets the job done. So this is not about supportive that coward's back. It's about supporting Lee's back. Lee makes the tough choices so it's his call if he will save Larry or not. If Kenny wanted my Lee's respect, he should've helped despite the risks or just backed off. In episode 3 I will be sure to give that guy hell.
What Kenny did is unforgivable because he managed to BETRAY Lee twice in less than 10 min.
This is about morals and respecting people's decisions.
Play the game one more time and even you will notice what a doucebag Kenny is. Throughout the entire second episode he will always show less he cares about anybody but his family.
I guess this is the difference between Rick Grimes and Kenny. Rick cares about everybody, even though he cares for he family the most. Kenny cares only about his family and himself. In my book Kenny is a trash that I'm going to work hard to throw out of my group. Rick is a hero and a real man who realizes the consequences of his mistakes and is ready to admit them. Kenny doesn't really regret anything and is all about fake excuses.
P.S This topic is about people who can no longer stand Kenny around. I don't understand why don't you make a "We love Kenny" thread and go defend him there. It's really boring to see same people's comments with same arguments over and over and over again. Let's give space to some new fresh people and points of view?
Except as said, Kenny apparently only extends an invitation to Lee on the basis that Lee "earned his place", nobody else mentions that Kenny extended them the same offer or even phrased it as an option. Hell, Lee even tries to reassure Mark that "Kenny won't abandon us" (even though that's what his plan entails). Besides which, there's the small issue of trying to house the entire group (which is what, 8 people?) in addition to provisions in a single RV.
Just to point out, but Ben didn't share that information before it had the potential to be deadly. Incidentally, the guy who starts throwing a shit-fit before an examination of the facts and started the whole panic about how the guy had to have been bitten was... Kenny.
Check the sequence of events again with the Walker attack; Katjaa called both Lee and Kenny over. Even if we assume Kenny went back to his original position to stroke his pipe again, it's not like he was a block away. If Kenny were to go around the back of the RV, he's actually just as close (if not closer) to the struggle than Mark/Larry.
The excuse that Kenny lacked a "proper" weapon is a bad one (particularly considering Lee saved Katjaa's life while unarmed). The assertion that firearms were "useless" in that situation is really somewhat funny... since Carley actually does end up shooting that Walker. It's really not that difficult to make it relatively safe to fire in such a scenario, simply by getting closer and/or changing position (which is what Carley does).
There's also the matter that even after the attack, Kenny doesn't show much concern for his wife. He doesn't try to comfort her (I'm not even sure he mentions the fact that the poor woman nearly died), etc. his immediate reaction to the attack is to try and lay the blame on somebody else (in this case, Ben).
After Larry's attack, sure, there's an added impetus for getting the guy's medication. However, your assertion was that his pills were the motivation for trying to break into the pharmacy prior to the arrival of Lee's group, and nowhere is that suggested. Lily simply says they were trying to get into the pharmacy since they got there, that's it - she doesn't mention her father's medication with regards to the previous attempts to break into the pharmacy whatsoever.
Considering the context, i.e. a direct question about camp leadership, the simple fact Lee brings up Larry's experience in response to that question is an implication that it's been used in and of itself. Otherwise there'd be no reason for him to mention it.
There's practical reasons for not letting strangers in or rushing out to save them outside the drug store: Even assuming Lee's group wasn't dangerous, as Larry notes, the bigger danger is that Lee's group could've lead the Walkers outside right back to them. Honestly, I wouldn't trust Lee either in Larry's shoes. As I've said, most of us tend not to open our home to strangers or pick up hitchhikers. Crime of passion or not, I certainly wouldn't trust a convicted murderer around my family. It's also unknown if Larry even knew about Lee getting his pills (as I've mentioned in other threads), Larry was semi-conscious until the drug store was under siege and they needed to evacuate.
With Ben and company, Lily's concern wasn't that they were dangerous, it was that they were more mouths to feed and there's no guarantee they can meaningfully contribute to offset that. Even then, she never advocates chucking them out to fend for themselves.
The key differences with the St. John's brothers: their offer can benefit the group, and there's no notion of taking them in, letting them stay at the inn and adopting them into the group.
It wasn't really about whether or not Larry was a gonner it was just the brash way in which Kenny dealt with the situation and the fact he tried to make out that what he had done was the ballsy thing to do, calling Lee a coward and claiming he didn't have the nerve to make the big decisions.
The fact is Larry probably was going to die without any real medical expertise, however Kenny needed to calm down and think about Lily and the effect that the situation would have on her; instead of jumping straight to conclusions he could have sided with Lee whilst trying to bring her round to the reality of the situation in a compationate manner and ultimately give her the choice of making the decision herself, she was his daughter after all. Because Kenny had absolutely zero patience in the situation though he completely tanished an already volatile group, took away a mans slight chance of survival, and potentially ruined the (already grim) life of a woman by splatting her father's skull all over her chin.
Have you seen Shaun of the Dead? If not then you may not want to read the rest of this paragraph or watch the link, but at the end of the film when it's reveiled Shaun's mother had been bitten the 'Irish guy (twat)' was pretty much Kenny, 'Shaun' was Lily and 'Shaun's girlfriend' Lee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbrN51dPm0I
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. It wouldn't have been that hard to make things fairly safe just in case Larry did turn, since atleast Lilly was wearing a belt that could've been used as a restraint.
And for all of the griping about how Lilly isn't trusting and welcoming of outsiders, Kenny did a lot more to confirm that mindset than he ever did to dispel it (hell, even before the Larry incident, he suggests that the group can simply take the Dairy by force if they need to).
I tend to agree that Kenny's motivation was impatience, I'd actually go a step farther and say his entire motivation for the act was impatience. Kenny's "concern" about Larry turning strikes me as being pretty damn insincere. His whole attitude, e.g. the "hurry the fuck up" line he spouts after the event tells me he saw the time spent on trying to save Larry as time not being spent to save his family.
but i agree with yami. what i did was the real hard/tough decision. kenny just pulled a coward move
Larry does punch Lee in the face. Could it be that he done to protect everyone from someone he suspects is a murderer and not because he is a dick? The fact that Larry doesn't mention anything about Lee to everyone does show that he is concearned about the saftey of the group.
As far as being an asset to the group I have noticed everyone else pitching in to help except Kenny. In episode one he gives orders and then sits back to rest. Episode two he sids in the shade of the RV that somehow has become "his." It seems to me that he is just using the group as zombie fodder for his family and fuck everyone else.
And if killing Larry was the right thing to do then why did Kenny get that "oh shit I just realized I fucked up" look on his face right after he done it?
According to Katja they just drove past many ppl who needed help in the begining but we know that Kenny didn't hesitate to bum off of Hershal. The sorry peice of shit didn't even try to help with the fence.
This last bit is for the Kenny Supporters:
No matter what decisions I make I have found that the only way for you to keep Kenny as a friend is to blindly follow his every command and never ever question him...at all. So you have to ask yourself this...Are you ready to be his bitch for the next 3 episodes?
No, Larry is just a dick.
You've obviously overlooked a lot of what Kenny has done because you just don't like him. And he fixed the RV.
Maybe because he just destroyed a man's head right infront of his daughter.
Because I'm sure we would all stop to help every last idiot when Z day was in full swing.
And as for the last bit, you're just doing it wrong.
exactly, and nicely put. this, and this alone is why i'm done with kenny.
simply replay episode 1 for the 6th time and try to pay attention (I know its hard with all the zombies) but it goes like this...kenny gets the attention of every zombie around...stuff stuff stuff...zombie prepares to eat some Duck...Carley destroyes zombie (hence why Duck is covered with muck)...and then (this is the part I am talking about)...Katja is holding Duck and Kenny squats down and puts his arms around both and just sits tight not trying in anyway to help.
Larry is a dick but, he is a dick who showes he cares about more than HIS OWN family.
What HAS Kenny done...and I don't like him for lots of reasons but the one that springs to mind first is how he did't help me with Danny
Im sure we wouldn't help every idiot...Kenny didn't, but he did get angry when Larry didn't want to help him
And maybe I am doing things wrong...like not seeing what a DB Kenny was at the very beginning
Well everyone's favorite Lilly was against even going out to save Lee and everyone, she yelled at Carley and Glenn for going out and helping. And hey if my son almost died in front of me, I'd hold him too
In my almost 100% Lilly playthrough she is very caring and warm towards me. She apologizes when she behaves a little harsher and is backing me up much better than Kenny did when I played team Kenny.
For example when you prevent Clementine from eating you have the options "1. Kenny get your gun or 2. Lilly grab a knife"
Guess what? 1. Kenny is so slow that he doesn't even reach for his gun. There is also Katjaa that screams "Kenny, NOO"
However, if you choose option 2 Lilly not only grabs a knife but is almost close to stabbing one of the brothers before they point a gun at her.
She is a better at everything. She is a better leader, better survivor, better friend. She is tougher than Kenny in every way possible. She is also an attactive female, but we can't blame Kenny for failing that. She is better fit to fill the parent role for Clem than Kenny, but again we can't blame him for that.
P.S Mooneysuzuki, so you are telling me that if a group of strangers attract every (un)living zombie around to the building you are hiding at and somebody from your group goes out shooting a gun attracting even more zombies, you will be okay with that? You will be willing to accept some complete strangers, one of whom is covered is mud and is probably bitten. And those people are not only strangers, but they are even ready to pick a fight with your group. You are okay with that?
a) huddle on the ground with your wife and son and pray the stranger saves the day or
b) stand with the stranger ready to fight tooth and nail to insure your families saftey
Maybe he's a good friend and all, but all he thinks about is HIMSELF!
Larry could still be alive, but this F*** killed the poor old guy.
Must admit I didnt like Larry at first, but hey, he's just protecting his doughter!
Kenny maybe thought it was a smar moved to kill him, but I assume that will lead into Lilly leaving the group.