Giving up? Lilly and Lee were actively working on achieving the best possible outcome, however remote, that Larry would survive and we would all escape from the cannibals. Thats' not giving up.
Kenny was not a team player and folded under the pressure. He made the short term situation and long term survival more dangerous because the group actions became individual actions. Lilly was in shock, Lee was pissed and Kenny could not count on Lee. So who had to take on Danny solo? Lee.
On the other hand, Larry could have survived. Or the group could have dispatched walker Larry (I would have like to have done that by the way...epic fight:D) and then the group would have found a way out of the meat locker and attacked Danny as a group.
There is also the long term effect. What if we actually survived the meat locker and made it out. Kenny's way - group destroyed. Lee's way - group intact.
Kenny is horrible mainly due to his follow on actions, post meat locker, that you may not see in your game but I do in my game. I have not taken my decision to expel both Kenny and Ben as group members lightly (I've done this as best the game will allow. I've not spoken to Ben since he admitted to being the traitor and only interact with Kenny if required by the game to move the story along). They have simply demonstrated that they are not suited for the complex nature of group dynamics. Maybe they will do better as lone surviviors. I do believe we are stonger as a group than as individuals. But as I'm sure Kenny would agree, sometimes the risk outweighs the benefit.:)
Trying to save Larry because cannibals are outside and about to kill us anyway and we may as well go down as heroes sounds like giving up to me. And you say things like he made "long term survival more dangerous" We have to live in the here and now and face current threats. Such as the guy who if he turns into a walker, everyone is screwed.
You could hardly argue "NO KENNY DONT DO THAT! If you kill that guy who might become a walker and kill us right now and so screw the other members of our group, then weeks from now, Lilly might go phyco and kill someone!" You make short term survival sound like he started eating all the rations at once or something, not like he dealt with a immediate threat to the entire group.
Kenny's way= Pisses off Lilly but doesnt risk entire group
Lee's way=Pisses off Kenny, risks entire group for one guy.
You talk about complex nature of group dynamics, but at the end of the day, he is the guy who dealt with the threat to the entire group and you are the one who couldnt. Besides, i suspect defeating zombie Larry in a meatlocker with no weapons and Lilly in shock would just be retarded and TT knew that.
Ben= Poor stupid kid, scared for his friend, intimidated by the bandits into helping them. No reason to kick him out of group or not to talk to him.
Kenny=Removed the threat to himself and his family getting eaten alive by cannibals.
Not talking to them over those things just seems really really petty, and saying that they "dont understand the complex nature of group dynamics" seems really really pretentious.
Trying to save Larry because cannibals are outside and about to kill us anyway and we may as well go down as heroes sounds like giving up to me. And you say things like he made "long term survival more dangerous" We have to live in the here and now and face current threats. Such as the guy who if he turns into a walker, everyone is screwed.
You could hardly argue "NO KENNY DONT DO THAT! If you kill that guy who might become a walker and kill us right now and so screw the other members of our group, then weeks from now, Lilly might go phyco and kill someone!" You make short term survival sound like he started eating all the rations at once or something, not like he dealt with a immediate threat to the entire group.
Kenny's way= Pisses off Lilly but doesnt risk entire group
Lee's way=Pisses off Kenny, risks entire group for one guy.
You talk about complex nature of group dynamics, but at the end of the day, he is the guy who dealt with the threat to the entire group and you are the one who couldnt. Besides, i suspect defeating zombie Larry in a meatlocker with no weapons and Lilly in shock would just be retarded and TT knew that.
Ben= Poor stupid kid, scared for his friend, intimidated by the bandits into helping them. No reason to kick him out of group or not to talk to him.
Kenny=Removed the threat to himself and his family getting eaten alive by cannibals.
Not talking to them over those things just seems really really petty, and saying that they "dont understand the complex nature of group dynamics" seems really really pretentious.
When the ends justify the means that's when a person can be killed, who may be alive, might recover like last time, may not reanimate for say the time it takes to drop a salt lick after he is confirmed dead. Lots of unknowns but more than sufficient to make an irreversable decision based on what could happen and carry it out immediately.
Again, that's fine if you're on your own. But may not sit well in a group setting. In my game, what Kenny did was unpopular. His own wife took the news badly. I suppose in your game he received a hero's welcome and even Doug patted him on the back for Kenny's heroic deed.
Not talking to Kenny and Ben is the best the game will allow at this time. I had hoped Lee was going to throw Ben off the train but he let me down. We'll see if there is a better way to distance the group from Ben and Kenny in the next episode.
Wrighty, you somehow tried to avoid/escape/ignore my argument that Duck could've bitten somebody in that RV. You say that Ben would've passed the gun to Lee. Well, Lee was asleep and probably so was Ben especially if you left Lilly out. Why would he be awake if he doesn't know about Duck. Had Duck turned, Katjaa was 100% dead, he would bite her before she even opened her mouth. Even if they did manage to really fast, Duck was still in her arms so no way to quickly dispatch of him. Katjaa was one of potential victims. There could've easily been more.
So be honest, did you try to make Kenny stop the RV? For like a week or more you've been trying to convince us of your super survival pragmatic way of making decisions. So did you tell Kenny to stop the RV or not?
Once again you tell me I shouldn't blame for Kenny for leaving me for dead in Macon. After I saved his kid twice, fed him twice and saved his wife once. That means nothing to him and the only decision that I made to try and help SOMEBODY else for a change, makes me unforgivable in his eyes? Yeah, I can start a new save and treat him like the asshole he is from the very beginning. At least then I will know why he leaves me to die in Macon.
You've already been over why Kenny isn't an asshole. Well some of us have been over why he is for like 51 pages now.
I don't think that there is any point continuing this argument with you. I can already predict what you're gonna write before you actually write it. I do understand your position but I do not accept it as true and I doubt this is gonna change, unless somebody else joins the discussion.
When the ends justify the means that's when a person can be killed, who may be alive, might recover like last time, may not reanimate for say the time it takes to drop a salt lick after he is confirmed dead. Lots of unknowns but more than sufficient to make an irreversable decision based on what could happen and carry it out immediately.
Again, that's fine if you're on your own. But may not sit well in a group setting. In my game, what Kenny did was unpopular. His own wife took the news badly. I suppose in your game he received a hero's welcome and even Doug patted him on the back for Kenny's heroic deed.
Not talking to Kenny and Ben is the best the game will allow at this time. I had hoped Lee was going to throw Ben off the train but he let me down. We'll see if there is a better way to distance the group from Ben and Kenny in the next episode.
Whats you're point in the first paragraph? Sure there are lots of unknowns but the one thing we know is that if he reaminates, we are screwed. And that they reaminate fast so we could have been seconds away from Larry coming back. And Lilly already said he had no pulse and was not breathing. She was trying to resusitate him and that takes time. Its not like Lee could just lean down, take his pulse, say he's dead and then Kenny kills him. I dont think thats how resucitation works.
In my game, only one person outside the locker knows about what happened and that was Katjaa. And its hardly like she immediatlely left or shouted at him for what he did. From what i saw, her reaction was "Oh god, what has this world come to" not "Oh God, i hate Kenny now". And its hardly like she knew the finer details of what happened, like how enclosed the space was and how there was nothing in the locker to fight with. Katjaa was sad and shocked at what this new world forces people to do, for the survival and safety of others.
And you would kill Ben just because he was intimidated by the bandits and was told his friend was in danger? Ben was stupid but i have no respect for anyone who kills a person for making a mistake. Tells me what kind of person you're Lee really is :P
Yeah you have respect for guys who immediately kill or abandon the ones who need help. After you destroy people's lives you hate them for not being able to take the pressure you continue to give them and leave them for dead after they kill somebody by mistake.
Wrighty, you somehow tried to avoid/escape/ignore my argument that Duck could've bitten somebody in that RV. You say that Ben would've passed the gun to Lee. Well, Lee was asleep and probably so was Ben especially if you left Lilly out. Why would he be awake if he doesn't know about Duck. Had Duck turned, Katjaa was 100% dead, he would bite her before she even opened her mouth. Even if they did manage to really fast, Duck was still in her arms so no way to quickly dispatch of him. Katjaa was one of potential victims. There could've easily been more.
So be honest, did you try to make Kenny stop the RV? For like a week or more you've been trying to convince us of your super survival pragmatic way of making decisions. So did you tell Kenny to stop the RV or not?
Once again you tell me I shouldn't blame for Kenny for leaving me for dead in Macon. After I saved his kid twice, fed him twice and saved his wife once. That means nothing to him and the only decision that I made to try and help SOMEBODY else for a change, makes me unforgivable in his eyes? Yeah, I can start a new save and treat him like the asshole he is from the very beginning. At least then I will know why he leaves me to die in Macon.
You've already been over why Kenny isn't an asshole. Well some of us have been over why he is for like 51 pages now.
I don't think that there is any point continuing this argument with you. I can already predict what you're gonna write before you actually write it. I do understand your position but I do not accept it as true and I doubt this is gonna change, unless somebody else joins the discussion.
WHAT?! Im telling you right now. Duck bites Katjaa, Katjaa screams, Lee and Ben hear it. Ben runs over and passes gun to Lee and Lee shoots him or Ben shoots him himself. Duck would have been concerned with finishing off and then eating Katjaa to notice the gun pointed directly on his forehead. At the end, Katjaa dies and she was obviously willing to risk getting eaten by Duck. And i cant believe you still cant accept the fact that Duck was a smaller threat than Larry in the meatlocker.
I didnt tell him to stop the RV because I trusted Katjaa to shout out when he either took a turn for the worst, died, or when he reaminated and bit her. She is the one taking all the risk here. She didnt let me down, showing that i made the right decision about her judgement.
Okay, do you know what? I have posted how YOU'RE LEE risked his wife and son to a slow horrible painful drawn out death that makes Larry's look merciful and Kenny's own life for some old bastard who tried to kill Lee after he got his heart medicine. And each and every time you have simply ignored it and posted the same thing about how "Duck was just a large a threat as Larry on the RV" or "He left me to die twice so screw him". I give answers to both of them and you dont respond to my argument. You also fail to respond to the whole Lilly screws you and steals the RV.
It truly is obvious why Kenny does what he does to you're Lee and but you simply refuse to see the logic behind the decisions. This has led me to believe you're either ridiculously obtuse or simply realise that i have argued you into a corner and have to hide behind "I already know what you're going to post, so i wont bother"
I'm obtuse? Really? A person who does not clearly make the difference between "you're" and "your" is telling me that I'm dumb just because I do not agree with his opinion? I didn't really expect that from you.
This is my last post to you.
So you're willing to risk the life of the people in the RV, even admit that Katjaa is probably going to die if Duck turns which is 100% inevitable, unlike Larry who at least has some chance of making it, but somehow in the meat locker is different. So Katjaa can risk her life and potentially risk other lives too but that somehow doesn't apply to Lilly and Lee?
You made the right call? Just because Lee doesn't rush and blow Duck's head off right on the spot doesn't mean the situation is different. If you cannot see that this is Telltale's way of testing you whether you are consistent or just biased then you're the one who's "ridiculously obtuse".
I've posted my list of decisions so you can see the logic behind my decisions and that I'm not a 100% pro Lilly even though I understand her character. There is some logic I base my decisions on and for the most part that is compassion and willingness to help others regardless whether they are Lilly, Kenny, Larry, Duck or somebody else. Apparently you didn't even try to find it.
I've already explained like 10 times why I think Lilly left me and stole the RV and the fact that I didn't respond you this time was just my attempt to not derail the thread to another Lilly thread. Here it is:
Quote by Dead_Man_Walking
When they found the bag of medication, and Ben confessed, in a sense, lily was right. The only problem was, she didn't see the big picture. I think that's all she's guilty of. Oh, and for those that got ditched, yeah, I was mad, too. However, maybe that was her way of saying she screwed up, and the group would be better off without her. It was a messed up plan of action, but lots of things are messed up in the spur of the moment. When you (Lee) went for the pencil, she could have easily snuck up on you and broke your neck.
And another one by Kiel555
he only thing I would add is that when Lilly ditched us (Lee and Clem) I was not upset. She had saved Lee's life back when Andy was about to put Lee's face in the electric fence (and with Danny as well). It was as if we both said "we're even" as she paused and then drove away.
I'm obtuse? Really? A person who does not clearly make the difference between "you're" and "your" is telling me that I'm dumb just because I do not agree with his opinion? I didn't really expect that from you.
This is my last post to you.
So you're willing to risk the life of the people in the RV, even admit that Katjaa is probably going to die if Duck turns which is 100% inevitable, unlike Larry who at least has some chance of making it, but somehow in the meat locker is different. So Katjaa can risk her life and potentially risk other lives too but that somehow doesn't apply to Lilly and Lee?
You made the right call? Just because Lee doesn't rush and blow Duck's head off right on the spot doesn't mean the situation is different. If you cannot see that this is Telltale's way of testing you whether you are consistent or just biased then you're the one who's "ridiculously obtuse".
I've posted my list of decisions so you can see the logic behind my decisions and that I'm not a 100% pro Lilly even though I understand her character. There is some logic I base my decisions on and for the most part that is compassion and willingness to help others regardless whether they are Lilly, Kenny, Larry, Duck or somebody else. Apparently you didn't even try to find it.
I've already explained like 10 times why I think Lilly left me and stole the RV and the fact that I didn't respond you this time was just my attempt to not derail the thread to another Lilly thread. Here it is:
Quote by Dead_Man_Walking
And another one by Kiel555
Resorting to calling out my grammar mistakes just makes you seem petty and struggling to find decent arguments. Just saying :P
Secondly, i wouldnt really be risking the lives of the people in the RV for the reasons i have spelled out for you again and again. Katjaa knows the risks of her son being infected and takes them as does Kenny. Those two are in danger of getting bitten, but we have a gun so we can kill Duck while he eats his parents. The potential risk is much smaller because of the setting, the fact they had no weapons in the meatlocker, Duck himself and others. Not to mention the worst the RV people can get is bitten. The worst Duck/Kat/Carley/Ben gets is eaten alive by cannibals. What im trying to make you see is that the two situations are very different and acting differently for both doesnt make you a hypocrite or biased. Both situations were unique in setting, zombie size and the fact that the RV people had at least one weapon and anyone who says different is being obtuse or just dumb :P
Sure i appreciate you sometimes hate Kenny and you're not completely biased against Kenny. But that one decision in the meatlocker is everything and you made the wrong choice, which led to both led to Kenny hating you and you risking everything for a old bastard to tried to kill Lee after he got him heart medicine.
For the first quote, Lilly obviously wasnt right. Well done Lilly, Ben was one of the group of your two suspects. But in the end you shot Carely. Not to mention you shouldnt just go executing people for making mistakes and not getting their side of the story. If she truly believed the group would be better of without her and she cared about the group, she wouldnt have stolen the RV and would have made her way on foot or killed herself. Why should the group lose the RV for a mistake Lilly made? A mistake which could cost their lives if any walkers approach.
For the second quote, if Lilly truly was a good or fair person, she would never have risked the lives of Kat, Ken, Lee and Clem to get away. Stealing the RV screws all of us. Hard. Whatever supplies we had in there was lost, as well as any means of escape if walkers arrive. Its not so much "We're even" as "Screw you all!" Saving Lee's life does not equal risking everyone elses to save you're own skin. Except it wasnt even saving her own skin, she just didnt want to be in the group anymore and decided to go away and leave us to die. I mean what kind of person, see's what the group is going through, losing Carely and then seeing Duck bitten, is still heartless enough to then, when you think things arent going any worse for the group, steals their RV and drives off into the sunset.
And im talking about Lilly in a fuck Kenny thread simply because some of Kenny's most diehard haters are diehard Lilly fans, and im simply retaliating. Im not cruel enough to go on the Lilly appreciation thread and bash her there but i will bash her here while defending Kenny.
I'm always saying that this is my last post to some people and yet your arguments are so poor that I cannot restrain myself.
The worst Duck/Kat/Carley/Ben gets is eaten alive by cannibals.
Carley and Ben are not there so, no, they were not in immediate danger. Plus, Carley has a gun. That leaves us with Duck and Kat who are Kenny's family of course. He's doing the smart thing for his family, not for the group. Duck and Kat could've already been killed you can't know for sure. Larry needed help, I helped him. There are not bad decisions in this game, and this is definitely not a wrong decision. If you think you're doing the only correct decisions I pity you...
You know, I can already see the resemblance between you and Kenny. You both believe that your point is the only correct one and you do not even respect other people's opinions. There is no point in trying to make Kenny understand and respect other people's opinions just as there is no point in discussing these matter any further with you.
Whats you're point in the first paragraph? Sure there are lots of unknowns but the one thing we know is that if he reaminates, we are screwed. And that they reaminate fast so we could have been seconds away from Larry coming back. And Lilly already said he had no pulse and was not breathing. She was trying to resusitate him and that takes time. Its not like Lee could just lean down, take his pulse, say he's dead and then Kenny kills him. I dont think thats how resucitation works.
In my game, only one person outside the locker knows about what happened and that was Katjaa. And its hardly like she immediatlely left or shouted at him for what he did. From what i saw, her reaction was "Oh god, what has this world come to" not "Oh God, i hate Kenny now". And its hardly like she knew the finer details of what happened, like how enclosed the space was and how there was nothing in the locker to fight with. Katjaa was sad and shocked at what this new world forces people to do, for the survival and safety of others.
And you would kill Ben just because he was intimidated by the bandits and was told his friend was in danger? Ben was stupid but i have no respect for anyone who kills a person for making a mistake. Tells me what kind of person you're Lee really is :P
You are lost in the "what could happen should this event occur based on not knowing this..." as being sufficient to kill Larry. Again, leads to actions that may not sit well with others.
I'm sure if Lee had done a better job of explaining the "finer details" of the situation in the meat locker that Kat would have been just fine. This really should have been something Kenny should have told her though. You know,so he can present the details in the best light possible and be available for any possible follow up questions.
As for Ben, maybe that's why Lee did not kick him off the train. Oh well, Ben is sure to die in e4 so I can ignore him a while longer .
But that one decision in the meatlocker is everything and you made the wrong choice, which led to both led to Kenny hating you and you risking everything for a old bastard to tried to kill Lee after he got him heart medicine.
This is a game in which there is no "right" or "wrong" choices. Only what you think is best. You and I both thought that trying to save Larry was far too big of a risk. We made sure he didn't get up. Other's thought that helping him was the best possible thing they could do. They tried to revive him. Some people think he could ahve been saved, others think he was already dead. There's no evidence to suggest either way, so all we can do is speculate. But to call someone else's choice "wrong" in this game is just wrong in itself.
Woow, 1014 posts so far The hottest thread on the forum
Yeah but 507 are yours and 507 are Wrighty's comments
Joking aside, as Rock114 points out; there is no right decision. Killing Larry might be the most pragmatic decision to make but actually killing him, and doing it right in front of his screaming daughter and an 8 year old child is a tough decision to make.
You both make valid points (inbetween the namecalling) but really how much of what you have written above really went through your head during your first playthrough?
Naah, Wrighty is a late-comer and I have only around 150 posts here
In my very first playthrough as I mention somewhere above, I was a friend of Kenny even though he started to annoy me a lot and I did dislike Lilly and Larry.
Lilly started growing on me in ep. 2 and in the meat locker scene... the way she screamed "Lee, I need you. Please help me!" was enough to make me help her.
Lilly started growing on me in ep. 2 and in the meat locker scene... the way she screamed "Lee, I need you. Please help me!" was enough to make me help her.
Same. Pragmatism aside if a woman is screaming for help I wouldn't stop to think, I'd help her.
To those who decided that Larry was a threat that needed to be dealt with and helped Kenny off him; I'd say you made a tough decision and I respect that, but I'd hate to be in a group with you. I'm a heavy sleeper and I don't think I'd rest easy thinking you'd might mistake me for dead and bash my head in without checking
Same. Pragmatism aside if a woman is screaming for help I wouldn't stop to think, I'd help her.
To those who decided that Larry was a threat that needed to be dealt with and helped Kenny off him; I'd say you made a tough decision and I respect that, but I'd hate to be in a group with you. I'm a heavy sleeper and I don't think I'd rest easy thinking you'd might mistake me for dead and bash my head in without checking
if your thinking about it pragmatically, Larry needed to be dealt with eventually, he could have died at any time, i mean what's worse, stealing medicine or eating your daughter alive because you died in your sleep
if your thinking about it pragmatically, Larry needed to be dealt with eventually, he could have died at any time, i mean what's worse, stealing medicine or eating your daughter alive because you died in your sleep
I get what you mean but I'm not a pragmatic person so I don't think like that. A woman was crying out for me to help her father. For me there is no question on what to do in that situation, but I don't have a problem with people who don't agree with me.
These are all good points you make and if I had time to sit down and think about the consequences of each action then I would probably agree with you. But for me; the point about this game is you have to make decisions quickly. When the choice moments occur I don't give myself time to think through all the options I just go with my gut feeling and live with the consequences, thats how I enjoy playing this game.
I get what you mean but I'm not a pragmatic person so I don't think like that. A woman was crying out for me to help her father. In my head there is no question on what to do in that situation, but I don't have a problem with people who don't agree with me.
These are all good points to make and if I sit down and think about the consequences of each action then your right but the point about this game is you have to make decisions quickly, in those circumstances I don't give myself time to think through all the options I just go with my gut feeling and live with the consequences, thats how I enjoy playing this game.
yeah me to, and on my fist go, my instinct said he was dead and it was lilly who confirmed it to me, but to me crying is not a rational response so her crying/screaming didn't dissuade me at all, it just made me ignore her.
i would never have suggested just killing Larry, but i don't think i would have slept anywhere near him and i would have some sort of barricade in between me and him.
I'm always saying that this is my last post to some people and yet your arguments are so poor that I cannot restrain myself.
Carley and Ben are not there so, no, they were not in immediate danger. Plus, Carley has a gun. That leaves us with Duck and Kat who are Kenny's family of course. He's doing the smart thing for his family, not for the group. Duck and Kat could've already been killed you can't know for sure. Larry needed help, I helped him. There are not bad decisions in this game, and this is definitely not a wrong decision. If you think you're doing the only correct decisions I pity you...
You know, I can already see the resemblance between you and Kenny. You both believe that your point is the only correct one and you do not even respect other people's opinions. There is no point in trying to make Kenny understand and respect other people's opinions just as there is no point in discussing these matter any further with you.
Keep telling yourself that :P
They were going to the house, Carely had a gun as did Ben and Andy and Brenda. One vs Three and Carely has no idea whats going on? If she's lucky, she'll get shot and die quickly, not sure what happens with Ben. They were in danger and if you die in the locker, then no one can warn Carely and Ben. And the meatlocker situation is important for everyone. I seriously dont understand how you can look past risking Lee, Lilly, Kenny, Clem, Kat, Duck (last two get horrible deaths) and risk Ben and Carely (one gun vs three and she doesnt even know whats happening, the cannibals know she might come aswell) for one person who tried to kill you after you got him heart medicine.
For me the correct decision is the one that doesnt risk everyones lives for one person. Sometimes its as simple as that. In this situation you are either strong enough to make the right call and ignore Lilly's cries for help or not. You were not.
For me the correct decision is the one that doesnt risk everyones lives for one person. Sometimes its as simple as that. In this situation you are either strong enough to make the right call and ignore Lilly's cries for help or not. You were not.
Then colour me not strong enough Wrighty boy.
By the way I don't disagree with your choice (your entitled to it), and I won't try to convince you of the merit of having compassion for people in your group. Its been 3 months since that episode came out and I played it for the first time. We have all thought about the choices we made and in the threads on this forum we have all come up with valid reasons why our choice was the right choice, and everyone elses was wrong
One thing we can agree on is that Telltale have made one hell of a compelling game.
By the way I don't disagree with your choice (your entitled to it), and I won't try to convince you of the merit of having compassion for people in your group. Its been 3 months since that episode came out and I played it for the first time. We have all thought about the choices we made and in the threads on this forum we have all come up with valid reasons why our choice was the right choice, and everyone elses was wrong
One thing we can agree on is that Telltale have made one hell of a compelling game.
Well said man. This game is something special. This game is more about going with your gut and split second decisions than going through all possible outcomes, deciding which is the best, and choosing that one. Any choice in this game can be justified. I hope we get another one like the meat locker, because that was the only true time I was paralyzed by indesicion. I almost ended up Team Lilly, but thought that choosing something is better than not at all, and picked Kenny because my cursor was floating over him right before the timer ran out.
By the way I don't disagree with your choice (your entitled to it), and I won't try to convince you of the merit of having compassion for people in your group. Its been 3 months since that episode came out and I played it for the first time. We have all thought about the choices we made and in the threads on this forum we have all come up with valid reasons why our choice was the right choice, and everyone elses was wrong
One thing we can agree on is that Telltale have made one hell of a compelling game.
Im all for compassion right up to the point it gets everyone killed.
And I guess some deluded part of my brain thinks that if I keep debating, I can convince all Kenny haters of their mistakes and we can all walk off into the sunset holding hands with Kenny. :P
And I agree TT made an awesome game. No doubt about it.
Im all for compassion right up to the point it gets everyone killed.
And I guess some deluded part of my brain thinks that if I keep debating, I can convince all Kenny haters of their mistakes and we can all walk off into the sunset holding hands with Kenny. :P
And I agree TT made an awesome game. No doubt about it.
Hey if we all agreed these forums would be boring!
It was probably not directed at me but I'm pro-kenny. I like the fella, I just don't think he likes me
if lilly and kenny didnt argue as much i would have been on both there sides, been kennys family friend and lillys right hand man, but because i felt i had to pick sides i just choose 1) a family and 2) the guy i would like to hang out with in between episodes
i did think there would be a pay off to the build up of their rivalry and choosing sides would change things, but on my first play through it doesn't matter about the differences because you wouldn't know if it was different at all, so even though i was mainly team kenny i was always diplomatic to lilly but just didnt take her side between kenny and lilly
Wrighty, you just do not see the bigger picture. The workings of a group is something much more complex than pure survival.
You can't just start killing you own. It's gonna cost you dearly.
Here's how it is. Kenny killed Lilly's father in cold blood (could've been handled differently), she looses her mind out of grief, he keeps pushing and pushing... until the point everything fucks up. Larry is dead, Lilly is broken, Katjaa traumatized (kills herself), Duck bitten, and Carley an innocent victim of the circumstances.
You don't think it has to do with what you did in the meat locker? Hah, you're fooling yourself. You can't just kill on of your own.
Had Kenny let me make the right call and actually help Larry, had we survived, none of the above would've happened. Lilly and Kenny wouldn't fight that bad, Ben wouldn't be scared and betray us, Duck probably wouldn't get bitten and Katjaa wouldn't kill herself.
If my Lee is gonna be in a group I want to know that people would enter a walker infested building just to help me. If I can't count on those people I'm better off without them.
But Kenny did enter a waker infested building to save you...when Lilly's precious father tried to make sure you didn't get out...
Aside, from that, I'll say it again, we don't KNOW that Larry was actually alive! Kenny can't murder a dead person. Even if Larry was dead, and Kenny saved everyone, it's still fair to say that he traumatized Lilly to a great degree. The bandit raid would likely have gone as it did even if Larry had survived/Lilly came to terms with his death. That had nothing to do with Larry, or Kenny, or Lilly. It was Ben, his deal with the bandits, and them not getting their most recent drop. Kenny can in no way be blamed for the bandit raid or Ben's actions. I haven't heard him say more than "Fuck you" to the kid since we rescued him.
Wrighty, you just do not see the bigger picture. The workings of a group is something much more complex than pure survival.
You can't just start killing you own. It's gonna cost you dearly.
Here's how it is. Kenny killed Lilly's father in cold blood (could've been handled differently), she looses her mind out of grief, he keeps pushing and pushing... until the point everything fucks up. Larry is dead, Lilly is broken, Katjaa traumatized (kills herself), Duck bitten, and Carley an innocent victim of the circumstances.
You don't think it has to do with what you did in the meat locker? Hah, you're fooling yourself. You can't just kill on of your own.
Had Kenny let me make the right call and actually help Larry, had we survived, none of the above would've happened. Lilly and Kenny wouldn't fight that bad, Ben wouldn't be scared and betray us, Duck probably wouldn't get bitten and Katjaa wouldn't kill herself.
If my Lee is gonna be in a group I want to know that people would enter a walker infested building just to help me. If I can't count on those people I'm better off without them.
Thought you wernt posting here anymore :P
Also seems kind of ironic saying "You can't just start killing your own" after what Lilly did. I mean, at least Kenny had a good reason.
And you just cant see the bigger picture and/or make the hard choices. You list the consequences for Larry's death (Duck and Kat dont tie into that at all btw, dont know why you listed those, they are result of the bandit deal). The consequences are if Larry is alive that everyone dies and Kat and Duck risk getting unbelivably painful and horrifying deaths. You leave Carely and Ben (one gun altogether) who have no idea whats going on to take on 3 cannibals (three guns and are on lookout) Better hope they die quickly or they'll go the same way as Duck and Kat. Those are the consequences had you been wrong and if Kenny was as weak as you were.
What makes you think it was the right call anyway? Even if the whole "Heart attack is a natural form of death so they dont turn" thing is true, Kenny and Lee didnt know that. Thats the thing, you're entire argument is based on Larry not being dead but you/Lee just didnt know. You seem to be in denial of the risks and consequences if things go badly. I take both the best and worst situation into consideration and make my call on the risks. You just hoped for the best, which is a surefire way of getting everyone killed.
Also why would Ben have been scared if he didnt know about the meatlocker? You talking about Lilly? At the end of the day, i think the meatlocker did drive her over the edge but how was Kenny supposed to know that? Again, its not like Lee says "No Kenny dont kill him! I know it risks all of our lives and some of us will die terribly but i know for sure that Lilly will go crazy afterwards and tear the group apart".
Just because Lilly has been traumatised by what happened does not mean she can just do whatever she wants and then everyone can blame it on Kenny for a choice that may have saved everyone. Just doesnt make sense.
As people mention in other threads the RV, apparently, wasn't as fixed as Kenny was trying to sell it. Don't you think that this is a bit careless and irresponsible of him. I mean how could anybody rely on such a guy?
My thoughts are that he actually did a terrific job with the RV.
The RV wasn't working when our heroes decided to fortify the motor inn. When Kenny wasn't out hunting, scrounging for supplies in Macon, or stroking that strange pipe in Episode 2, he was repairing the thing. Yes, he was planning to take his family and leave with it IF he could get enough people to come with him, but he realizes that if the rest of the group wants to stay he will too, as splitting up would be a dumb idea. Kenny said he got the RV running again, he didn't say how well. In fact, he was still working on it during the raid! If it had been truly road-worthy, then everyone would have been out of there just as the walkers showed up, instead of when they were already past the wall. Even Lee doesn't truly believe that it's running when you inspect the RV while searching for the missing supplies. Just because it wasn't COMPLETELY fixed doesn't mean he was irresponsible. In fact, if it hadn't been for him fixing up the RV it's likely that no one would have made it out alive. If he had had more time, I think he would have completed the repairs, or at least come as close as he could.
As people mention in other threads the RV, apparently, wasn't as fixed as Kenny was trying to sell it. Don't you think that this is a bit careless and irresponsible of him. I mean how could anybody rely on such a guy?
Any thoughts?
Exactly. Here Kenny is trying to convince me to go with him at the beginning of e3 and it's a good thing I didn't. If I had then what? Lee and Clem go with Kenny in the RV only to have it break down 30 or so miles from Macon? WTF Kenny!
But the RV was only supposed to get you to Savannah where the boats are. it wasn't supposed to be a long term solution
But it never would have got us to Savannah. Ignoring the fact the RV was knackared and wouldn't have lasted another 30 miles or so; there was a bloody big train blocking the road.
If you've read any part of Rise of the Governor or watched the TV show you would know that highways and roads as a whole are really unreliable paths to travel cause there is almost always other cars that block them, walkers and what not. Packing into an "almost" fixed RV isn't a solution at all. Kenny should've told us this instead of keeping it for himself.
I like Kenny most of the time, I couldn't side with him though it just didn't seem right. Even though I didn't care for Larry.. just couldn't do that, why couldn't we have just waited until we knew for sure he was gone and then did it, out of respect. Kenny would want the same for his family. I'm happy I got to knock some sense into him in the last episode, he had it coming. haha!
But the RV was only supposed to get you to Savannah where the boats are. it wasn't supposed to be a long term solution
Kenny was pressuring everyone, his words not mine, to go with him in the RV to "the coast" (may have been Savannah or Florida) when he knew full well the RV could not make the journey.
If you've read any part of Rise of the Governor or watched the TV show you would know that highways and roads as a whole are really unreliable paths to travel cause there is almost always other cars that block them, walkers and what not. Packing into an "almost" fixed RV isn't a solution at all. Kenny should've told us this instead of keeping it for himself.
Got any other better modes of transportation? Walking, cycling? Staying at the motel and keep getting attacked by bandits untill we slowly get picked off one by one? Are people blaming Kenny now for being optimistic? Jesus
I cant believe people are criticising Kenny for the RV not being fully repaired, the fact he got it working at all is a miracle. It saved everyone's lives and got everyone away from the motel. Besides, Kenny didnt plan to leave with the RV the day the bandits attacked, so he obviously planned to work on it more and it wasnt ready. Going to blame him for the bandit attack now?
Even if the RV wasn't completely fixed, it was fixed enough to get us far away from the motor inn in case of an emergency like, oh, say...a bandit raid? How many groups actually have working vehicles, working vehicles that can carry ALL those members of the group at one time? Frankly I was GLAD he was working on the RV. Remember, even if the RV was a POS, it was likely many times worse before Kenny began working on it. That RV, let us not forget, is also the only reason anyone in the group made it out of that raid alive. To call him irresponsible for not fixing it completely is just unfair. He's a fisherman ya know! He specializes in POS boats, not POS camping vehicles.
Even if the RV wasn't completely fixed, it was fixed enough to get us far away from the motor inn in case of an emergency like, oh, say...a bandit raid? How many groups actually have working vehicles, working vehicles that can carry ALL those members of the group at one time? Frankly I was GLAD he was working on the RV. Remember, even if the RV was a POS, it was likely many times worse before Kenny began working on it. That RV, let us not forget, is also the only reason anyone in the group made it out of that raid alive. To call him irresponsible for not fixing it completely is just unfair. He's a fisherman ya know! He specializes in POS boats, not POS camping vehicles.
That's not the point, man. Of course, we're glad to have an emergency escape plan. However, I was left with the impression that this was all he was talking about the entire week between ep.2 and ep.3. Why would he pressure the entire group and Lilly like that when the RV is not even ready? It seems stupid and childish. Lilly needed some time to mourn but instead he kept arguing with her when the RV wasn't even finished. What if he couldn't fully repair it? What if he didn't have the spare parts to make it fully working? Was it really necessary to annoy the entire group with his constant whining and fighting?
As for Kenny's RV saving the situation, I think you're giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for Lilly and Lee, none would be alive to even start the RV.
It is interesting that I didn't even see that many walkers in that scene. I'm sure that the combined fire power of Lee, Lilly and Carly (optional) was more than enough to deal with both bandits and walkers. It felt stupid to abandon everything, but I guess it was all in the heat of the moment.
Comments
Trying to save Larry because cannibals are outside and about to kill us anyway and we may as well go down as heroes sounds like giving up to me. And you say things like he made "long term survival more dangerous" We have to live in the here and now and face current threats. Such as the guy who if he turns into a walker, everyone is screwed.
You could hardly argue "NO KENNY DONT DO THAT! If you kill that guy who might become a walker and kill us right now and so screw the other members of our group, then weeks from now, Lilly might go phyco and kill someone!" You make short term survival sound like he started eating all the rations at once or something, not like he dealt with a immediate threat to the entire group.
Kenny's way= Pisses off Lilly but doesnt risk entire group
Lee's way=Pisses off Kenny, risks entire group for one guy.
You talk about complex nature of group dynamics, but at the end of the day, he is the guy who dealt with the threat to the entire group and you are the one who couldnt. Besides, i suspect defeating zombie Larry in a meatlocker with no weapons and Lilly in shock would just be retarded and TT knew that.
Ben= Poor stupid kid, scared for his friend, intimidated by the bandits into helping them. No reason to kick him out of group or not to talk to him.
Kenny=Removed the threat to himself and his family getting eaten alive by cannibals.
Not talking to them over those things just seems really really petty, and saying that they "dont understand the complex nature of group dynamics" seems really really pretentious.
I doubt you missed much. It's best just to back away slowly.
When the ends justify the means that's when a person can be killed, who may be alive, might recover like last time, may not reanimate for say the time it takes to drop a salt lick after he is confirmed dead. Lots of unknowns but more than sufficient to make an irreversable decision based on what could happen and carry it out immediately.
Again, that's fine if you're on your own. But may not sit well in a group setting. In my game, what Kenny did was unpopular. His own wife took the news badly. I suppose in your game he received a hero's welcome and even Doug patted him on the back for Kenny's heroic deed.
Not talking to Kenny and Ben is the best the game will allow at this time. I had hoped Lee was going to throw Ben off the train but he let me down. We'll see if there is a better way to distance the group from Ben and Kenny in the next episode.
So be honest, did you try to make Kenny stop the RV? For like a week or more you've been trying to convince us of your super survival pragmatic way of making decisions. So did you tell Kenny to stop the RV or not?
Once again you tell me I shouldn't blame for Kenny for leaving me for dead in Macon. After I saved his kid twice, fed him twice and saved his wife once. That means nothing to him and the only decision that I made to try and help SOMEBODY else for a change, makes me unforgivable in his eyes? Yeah, I can start a new save and treat him like the asshole he is from the very beginning. At least then I will know why he leaves me to die in Macon.
You've already been over why Kenny isn't an asshole. Well some of us have been over why he is for like 51 pages now.
I don't think that there is any point continuing this argument with you. I can already predict what you're gonna write before you actually write it. I do understand your position but I do not accept it as true and I doubt this is gonna change, unless somebody else joins the discussion.
Whats you're point in the first paragraph? Sure there are lots of unknowns but the one thing we know is that if he reaminates, we are screwed. And that they reaminate fast so we could have been seconds away from Larry coming back. And Lilly already said he had no pulse and was not breathing. She was trying to resusitate him and that takes time. Its not like Lee could just lean down, take his pulse, say he's dead and then Kenny kills him. I dont think thats how resucitation works.
In my game, only one person outside the locker knows about what happened and that was Katjaa. And its hardly like she immediatlely left or shouted at him for what he did. From what i saw, her reaction was "Oh god, what has this world come to" not "Oh God, i hate Kenny now". And its hardly like she knew the finer details of what happened, like how enclosed the space was and how there was nothing in the locker to fight with. Katjaa was sad and shocked at what this new world forces people to do, for the survival and safety of others.
And you would kill Ben just because he was intimidated by the bandits and was told his friend was in danger? Ben was stupid but i have no respect for anyone who kills a person for making a mistake. Tells me what kind of person you're Lee really is :P
WHAT?! Im telling you right now. Duck bites Katjaa, Katjaa screams, Lee and Ben hear it. Ben runs over and passes gun to Lee and Lee shoots him or Ben shoots him himself. Duck would have been concerned with finishing off and then eating Katjaa to notice the gun pointed directly on his forehead. At the end, Katjaa dies and she was obviously willing to risk getting eaten by Duck. And i cant believe you still cant accept the fact that Duck was a smaller threat than Larry in the meatlocker.
I didnt tell him to stop the RV because I trusted Katjaa to shout out when he either took a turn for the worst, died, or when he reaminated and bit her. She is the one taking all the risk here. She didnt let me down, showing that i made the right decision about her judgement.
Okay, do you know what? I have posted how YOU'RE LEE risked his wife and son to a slow horrible painful drawn out death that makes Larry's look merciful and Kenny's own life for some old bastard who tried to kill Lee after he got his heart medicine. And each and every time you have simply ignored it and posted the same thing about how "Duck was just a large a threat as Larry on the RV" or "He left me to die twice so screw him". I give answers to both of them and you dont respond to my argument. You also fail to respond to the whole Lilly screws you and steals the RV.
It truly is obvious why Kenny does what he does to you're Lee and but you simply refuse to see the logic behind the decisions. This has led me to believe you're either ridiculously obtuse or simply realise that i have argued you into a corner and have to hide behind "I already know what you're going to post, so i wont bother"
This is my last post to you.
So you're willing to risk the life of the people in the RV, even admit that Katjaa is probably going to die if Duck turns which is 100% inevitable, unlike Larry who at least has some chance of making it, but somehow in the meat locker is different. So Katjaa can risk her life and potentially risk other lives too but that somehow doesn't apply to Lilly and Lee?
You made the right call? Just because Lee doesn't rush and blow Duck's head off right on the spot doesn't mean the situation is different. If you cannot see that this is Telltale's way of testing you whether you are consistent or just biased then you're the one who's "ridiculously obtuse".
I've posted my list of decisions so you can see the logic behind my decisions and that I'm not a 100% pro Lilly even though I understand her character. There is some logic I base my decisions on and for the most part that is compassion and willingness to help others regardless whether they are Lilly, Kenny, Larry, Duck or somebody else. Apparently you didn't even try to find it.
I've already explained like 10 times why I think Lilly left me and stole the RV and the fact that I didn't respond you this time was just my attempt to not derail the thread to another Lilly thread. Here it is:
Quote by Dead_Man_Walking
And another one by Kiel555
Resorting to calling out my grammar mistakes just makes you seem petty and struggling to find decent arguments. Just saying :P
Secondly, i wouldnt really be risking the lives of the people in the RV for the reasons i have spelled out for you again and again. Katjaa knows the risks of her son being infected and takes them as does Kenny. Those two are in danger of getting bitten, but we have a gun so we can kill Duck while he eats his parents. The potential risk is much smaller because of the setting, the fact they had no weapons in the meatlocker, Duck himself and others. Not to mention the worst the RV people can get is bitten. The worst Duck/Kat/Carley/Ben gets is eaten alive by cannibals. What im trying to make you see is that the two situations are very different and acting differently for both doesnt make you a hypocrite or biased. Both situations were unique in setting, zombie size and the fact that the RV people had at least one weapon and anyone who says different is being obtuse or just dumb :P
Sure i appreciate you sometimes hate Kenny and you're not completely biased against Kenny. But that one decision in the meatlocker is everything and you made the wrong choice, which led to both led to Kenny hating you and you risking everything for a old bastard to tried to kill Lee after he got him heart medicine.
For the first quote, Lilly obviously wasnt right. Well done Lilly, Ben was one of the group of your two suspects. But in the end you shot Carely. Not to mention you shouldnt just go executing people for making mistakes and not getting their side of the story. If she truly believed the group would be better of without her and she cared about the group, she wouldnt have stolen the RV and would have made her way on foot or killed herself. Why should the group lose the RV for a mistake Lilly made? A mistake which could cost their lives if any walkers approach.
For the second quote, if Lilly truly was a good or fair person, she would never have risked the lives of Kat, Ken, Lee and Clem to get away. Stealing the RV screws all of us. Hard. Whatever supplies we had in there was lost, as well as any means of escape if walkers arrive. Its not so much "We're even" as "Screw you all!" Saving Lee's life does not equal risking everyone elses to save you're own skin. Except it wasnt even saving her own skin, she just didnt want to be in the group anymore and decided to go away and leave us to die. I mean what kind of person, see's what the group is going through, losing Carely and then seeing Duck bitten, is still heartless enough to then, when you think things arent going any worse for the group, steals their RV and drives off into the sunset.
And im talking about Lilly in a fuck Kenny thread simply because some of Kenny's most diehard haters are diehard Lilly fans, and im simply retaliating. Im not cruel enough to go on the Lilly appreciation thread and bash her there but i will bash her here while defending Kenny.
Carley and Ben are not there so, no, they were not in immediate danger. Plus, Carley has a gun. That leaves us with Duck and Kat who are Kenny's family of course. He's doing the smart thing for his family, not for the group. Duck and Kat could've already been killed you can't know for sure. Larry needed help, I helped him. There are not bad decisions in this game, and this is definitely not a wrong decision. If you think you're doing the only correct decisions I pity you...
You know, I can already see the resemblance between you and Kenny. You both believe that your point is the only correct one and you do not even respect other people's opinions. There is no point in trying to make Kenny understand and respect other people's opinions just as there is no point in discussing these matter any further with you.
You are lost in the "what could happen should this event occur based on not knowing this..." as being sufficient to kill Larry. Again, leads to actions that may not sit well with others.
I'm sure if Lee had done a better job of explaining the "finer details" of the situation in the meat locker that Kat would have been just fine. This really should have been something Kenny should have told her though. You know,so he can present the details in the best light possible and be available for any possible follow up questions.
As for Ben, maybe that's why Lee did not kick him off the train. Oh well, Ben is sure to die in e4 so I can ignore him a while longer
This is a game in which there is no "right" or "wrong" choices. Only what you think is best. You and I both thought that trying to save Larry was far too big of a risk. We made sure he didn't get up. Other's thought that helping him was the best possible thing they could do. They tried to revive him. Some people think he could ahve been saved, others think he was already dead. There's no evidence to suggest either way, so all we can do is speculate. But to call someone else's choice "wrong" in this game is just wrong in itself.
Yeah but 507 are yours and 507 are Wrighty's comments
Joking aside, as Rock114 points out; there is no right decision. Killing Larry might be the most pragmatic decision to make but actually killing him, and doing it right in front of his screaming daughter and an 8 year old child is a tough decision to make.
You both make valid points (inbetween the namecalling) but really how much of what you have written above really went through your head during your first playthrough?
In my very first playthrough as I mention somewhere above, I was a friend of Kenny even though he started to annoy me a lot and I did dislike Lilly and Larry.
Lilly started growing on me in ep. 2 and in the meat locker scene... the way she screamed "Lee, I need you. Please help me!" was enough to make me help her.
Same. Pragmatism aside if a woman is screaming for help I wouldn't stop to think, I'd help her.
To those who decided that Larry was a threat that needed to be dealt with and helped Kenny off him; I'd say you made a tough decision and I respect that, but I'd hate to be in a group with you. I'm a heavy sleeper and I don't think I'd rest easy thinking you'd might mistake me for dead and bash my head in without checking
if your thinking about it pragmatically, Larry needed to be dealt with eventually, he could have died at any time, i mean what's worse, stealing medicine or eating your daughter alive because you died in your sleep
I get what you mean but I'm not a pragmatic person so I don't think like that. A woman was crying out for me to help her father. For me there is no question on what to do in that situation, but I don't have a problem with people who don't agree with me.
These are all good points you make and if I had time to sit down and think about the consequences of each action then I would probably agree with you. But for me; the point about this game is you have to make decisions quickly. When the choice moments occur I don't give myself time to think through all the options I just go with my gut feeling and live with the consequences, thats how I enjoy playing this game.
yeah me to, and on my fist go, my instinct said he was dead and it was lilly who confirmed it to me, but to me crying is not a rational response so her crying/screaming didn't dissuade me at all, it just made me ignore her.
i would never have suggested just killing Larry, but i don't think i would have slept anywhere near him and i would have some sort of barricade in between me and him.
Keep telling yourself that :P
They were going to the house, Carely had a gun as did Ben and Andy and Brenda. One vs Three and Carely has no idea whats going on? If she's lucky, she'll get shot and die quickly, not sure what happens with Ben. They were in danger and if you die in the locker, then no one can warn Carely and Ben. And the meatlocker situation is important for everyone. I seriously dont understand how you can look past risking Lee, Lilly, Kenny, Clem, Kat, Duck (last two get horrible deaths) and risk Ben and Carely (one gun vs three and she doesnt even know whats happening, the cannibals know she might come aswell) for one person who tried to kill you after you got him heart medicine.
For me the correct decision is the one that doesnt risk everyones lives for one person. Sometimes its as simple as that. In this situation you are either strong enough to make the right call and ignore Lilly's cries for help or not. You were not.
Then colour me not strong enough Wrighty boy.
By the way I don't disagree with your choice (your entitled to it), and I won't try to convince you of the merit of having compassion for people in your group. Its been 3 months since that episode came out and I played it for the first time. We have all thought about the choices we made and in the threads on this forum we have all come up with valid reasons why our choice was the right choice, and everyone elses was wrong
One thing we can agree on is that Telltale have made one hell of a compelling game.
Well said man. This game is something special. This game is more about going with your gut and split second decisions than going through all possible outcomes, deciding which is the best, and choosing that one. Any choice in this game can be justified. I hope we get another one like the meat locker, because that was the only true time I was paralyzed by indesicion. I almost ended up Team Lilly, but thought that choosing something is better than not at all, and picked Kenny because my cursor was floating over him right before the timer ran out.
Im all for compassion right up to the point it gets everyone killed.
And I guess some deluded part of my brain thinks that if I keep debating, I can convince all Kenny haters of their mistakes and we can all walk off into the sunset holding hands with Kenny. :P
And I agree TT made an awesome game. No doubt about it.
Hey if we all agreed these forums would be boring!
It was probably not directed at me but I'm pro-kenny. I like the fella, I just don't think he likes me
i did think there would be a pay off to the build up of their rivalry and choosing sides would change things, but on my first play through it doesn't matter about the differences because you wouldn't know if it was different at all, so even though i was mainly team kenny i was always diplomatic to lilly but just didnt take her side between kenny and lilly
You can't just start killing you own. It's gonna cost you dearly.
Here's how it is. Kenny killed Lilly's father in cold blood (could've been handled differently), she looses her mind out of grief, he keeps pushing and pushing... until the point everything fucks up. Larry is dead, Lilly is broken, Katjaa traumatized (kills herself), Duck bitten, and Carley an innocent victim of the circumstances.
You don't think it has to do with what you did in the meat locker? Hah, you're fooling yourself. You can't just kill on of your own.
Had Kenny let me make the right call and actually help Larry, had we survived, none of the above would've happened. Lilly and Kenny wouldn't fight that bad, Ben wouldn't be scared and betray us, Duck probably wouldn't get bitten and Katjaa wouldn't kill herself.
If my Lee is gonna be in a group I want to know that people would enter a walker infested building just to help me. If I can't count on those people I'm better off without them.
Aside, from that, I'll say it again, we don't KNOW that Larry was actually alive! Kenny can't murder a dead person. Even if Larry was dead, and Kenny saved everyone, it's still fair to say that he traumatized Lilly to a great degree. The bandit raid would likely have gone as it did even if Larry had survived/Lilly came to terms with his death. That had nothing to do with Larry, or Kenny, or Lilly. It was Ben, his deal with the bandits, and them not getting their most recent drop. Kenny can in no way be blamed for the bandit raid or Ben's actions. I haven't heard him say more than "Fuck you" to the kid since we rescued him.
Thought you wernt posting here anymore :P
Also seems kind of ironic saying "You can't just start killing your own" after what Lilly did. I mean, at least Kenny had a good reason.
And you just cant see the bigger picture and/or make the hard choices. You list the consequences for Larry's death (Duck and Kat dont tie into that at all btw, dont know why you listed those, they are result of the bandit deal). The consequences are if Larry is alive that everyone dies and Kat and Duck risk getting unbelivably painful and horrifying deaths. You leave Carely and Ben (one gun altogether) who have no idea whats going on to take on 3 cannibals (three guns and are on lookout) Better hope they die quickly or they'll go the same way as Duck and Kat. Those are the consequences had you been wrong and if Kenny was as weak as you were.
What makes you think it was the right call anyway? Even if the whole "Heart attack is a natural form of death so they dont turn" thing is true, Kenny and Lee didnt know that. Thats the thing, you're entire argument is based on Larry not being dead but you/Lee just didnt know. You seem to be in denial of the risks and consequences if things go badly. I take both the best and worst situation into consideration and make my call on the risks. You just hoped for the best, which is a surefire way of getting everyone killed.
Also why would Ben have been scared if he didnt know about the meatlocker? You talking about Lilly? At the end of the day, i think the meatlocker did drive her over the edge but how was Kenny supposed to know that? Again, its not like Lee says "No Kenny dont kill him! I know it risks all of our lives and some of us will die terribly but i know for sure that Lilly will go crazy afterwards and tear the group apart".
Just because Lilly has been traumatised by what happened does not mean she can just do whatever she wants and then everyone can blame it on Kenny for a choice that may have saved everyone. Just doesnt make sense.
Any thoughts?
The RV wasn't working when our heroes decided to fortify the motor inn. When Kenny wasn't out hunting, scrounging for supplies in Macon, or stroking that strange pipe in Episode 2, he was repairing the thing. Yes, he was planning to take his family and leave with it IF he could get enough people to come with him, but he realizes that if the rest of the group wants to stay he will too, as splitting up would be a dumb idea. Kenny said he got the RV running again, he didn't say how well. In fact, he was still working on it during the raid! If it had been truly road-worthy, then everyone would have been out of there just as the walkers showed up, instead of when they were already past the wall. Even Lee doesn't truly believe that it's running when you inspect the RV while searching for the missing supplies. Just because it wasn't COMPLETELY fixed doesn't mean he was irresponsible. In fact, if it hadn't been for him fixing up the RV it's likely that no one would have made it out alive. If he had had more time, I think he would have completed the repairs, or at least come as close as he could.
Exactly. Here Kenny is trying to convince me to go with him at the beginning of e3 and it's a good thing I didn't. If I had then what? Lee and Clem go with Kenny in the RV only to have it break down 30 or so miles from Macon? WTF Kenny!
But it never would have got us to Savannah. Ignoring the fact the RV was knackared and wouldn't have lasted another 30 miles or so; there was a bloody big train blocking the road.
Kenny was pressuring everyone, his words not mine, to go with him in the RV to "the coast" (may have been Savannah or Florida) when he knew full well the RV could not make the journey.
Got any other better modes of transportation? Walking, cycling? Staying at the motel and keep getting attacked by bandits untill we slowly get picked off one by one? Are people blaming Kenny now for being optimistic? Jesus
I cant believe people are criticising Kenny for the RV not being fully repaired, the fact he got it working at all is a miracle. It saved everyone's lives and got everyone away from the motel. Besides, Kenny didnt plan to leave with the RV the day the bandits attacked, so he obviously planned to work on it more and it wasnt ready. Going to blame him for the bandit attack now?
That's not the point, man. Of course, we're glad to have an emergency escape plan. However, I was left with the impression that this was all he was talking about the entire week between ep.2 and ep.3. Why would he pressure the entire group and Lilly like that when the RV is not even ready? It seems stupid and childish. Lilly needed some time to mourn but instead he kept arguing with her when the RV wasn't even finished. What if he couldn't fully repair it? What if he didn't have the spare parts to make it fully working? Was it really necessary to annoy the entire group with his constant whining and fighting?
As for Kenny's RV saving the situation, I think you're giving him too much credit. Let's not forget that if it wasn't for Lilly and Lee, none would be alive to even start the RV.
It is interesting that I didn't even see that many walkers in that scene. I'm sure that the combined fire power of Lee, Lilly and Carly (optional) was more than enough to deal with both bandits and walkers. It felt stupid to abandon everything, but I guess it was all in the heat of the moment.