The romance discussion is irrelevant to this thread. The question is, would you like any (non-romancable of course, as there should be no romance) gay characters in TWD season two. And I'm curious as to why so many people are saying no.
EDIT: I just realised that your comment wasn't directed at me (damn this new forum), however I am going to leave this here because the last comment I made was still relevant.
Do you have any other examples besides that Mass Effect 3 one you keep repeating? I'm genuinely curious, because so far, it sounds like you're… more making a pretty big prediction based on one case of fans making a big enough outcry, which means nothing. I'm sure you don't mean anything by it, but it sounds like you're saying, "well, gay people whined about that, so clearly they're going to whine about this." Needless to say, that's going down a bad road.
I'm also not seeing where you're getting this sibling thing with Lee and Carley. I really don't think you can make "you're going to have to be more talkative if this is going to work" sound like anything other than a prelude to a relationship, just as a start. Or getting up close, kissing one's cheek, and whispering in their ear. I don't know many siblings that engage in such activities, to be sure.
The reason I'm using Mass Effect 3 as an example is quite obvious: its a big game, well-known and it was the first that included this serious gay option (except The Sims perhaps).
The gay community IS more vocal than many other groups, for no other reason than its ok being gay - we don't burn homosexuals at stake nowadays, at least not in the western world where it is as said, ok to be gay. And they feel that they want they needs satisfied as well in all fields, in this case in entertainment and game industry. The movie industry is still a long way off - when did we see a gay action hero, hm? And so on. So yes, they are more vocal and sure to be claiming their rights where they can (my brother is gay, active in that community and has quite plainly stated this, and he also said this is nothing new really).
This entire vocalization can also be applied to other groups - we do have female action heroes in both films and games, but how many female, lesbian Jewish action heroes do we have? How many Jewish straight male action heroes? Blacks have theirs in Will Smith and a bunch of other actors, we have our very own Lee and so on, so blacks are pretty well supplied here, just as females.
This boils down to one thing: money. In the US, blacks are still a minority, but a much larger minority than they used to be, and they have the same rights as whites. All is well there. Women have had their liberation and incidentally make up 50% of the population. Both are very large groups, which means excluding either means a company looses a lot of money.
Gays though (or people overall with a non-straight sexual orientation) makes up around 10-15% of the population, and many have the kind of sexual orientation that no matter what you might think, rubs other people the wrong way. That means that by catering to this group means that you have to spend a lot of time and money for a quite small return from a small minority (less people = less money), as well as possibly getting a smaller revenue from the more narrow-minded people.
Which means that Bioware took a huge risk by including that gay character. And here is a good point already brought up by Flog61: the earlier games in the triology already had lesbian alternatives, so the gay alternative was lacking. But: people generally see girl on girl as much hotter than guy on guy, and up to that moment when Mass effect got its reputation as a great game, most gamers had been guys. Essentially Bioware took care of their customers here.
Compare with an earlier game, Baldurs gate 2. A male protagonist had three romantic options - all female. But a female protagonist only had one, and this for the exact same reason: most gamers were guys, and most guys prefer straight realtionships - and lacking that, lesbian relationships. Again, this was during a time when most gamers were straight (white) males.
Regarding Lee and Carly, I said that was one way of interpret their relation - besides, I never played it so I got that line from her.
Do you have any other examples besides that Mass Effect 3 one you keep repeating? I'm genuinely curious, because so far, it sounds like you're… more making a pretty big prediction based on one case of fans making a big enough outcry, which means nothing. I'm sure you don't mean anything by it, but it sounds like you're saying, "well, gay people whined about that, so clearly they're going to whine about this." Needless to say, that's going down a bad road.
I'm also not seeing where you're getting this sibling thing with Lee and Carley. I really don't think you can make "you're going to have to be more talkative if this is going to work" sound like anything other than a prelude to a relationship, just as a start. Or getting up close, kissing one's cheek, and whispering in their ear. I don't know many siblings that engage in such activities, to be sure.
^ This. The game is not about romance but you meet enough survivors in the game that your bound to come across a gay survivor at some point. So long as they are well written and their sexuality isn't made a primary focus, then I wouldn't mind seeing a gay character. Perhaps when your getting to know them, they mention they lost their partner to the walkers or it's a gay couple trying to survive the zombie Apocalypse like everyone else.
Olaus Petrus wrote:
>
Personally I don't support idea of adding gay character just because he is gay or retconning existing c… moreharacter like Kenny to homosexual (it would be just bad writing). However if the character fits to the story, then I have nothing against including gay character. In Wadjet Eye's Resonance homosexual character was actually one of my favourites, because he was written well and they didn't make a big number about his sexuality, but most of the time gay characters in adventure games are just awkward, like that gay guy from Phantasmagoria 2.
I agree with you. I wouldn't mind seeing a gay, bisexual, transgender, or intersex character but only if they handled it well. Too often these characters are used for comic relief, as proverbial punching bags (taking huge amounts of verbal and/or physical abuse), or both. The rule of thumb for good writing is that you should always treat the characters you are wr… [view original content]
Here's the short answer........NO!!!! The game is perfect how it is. I'd be very upset if TT tried to add gays to the walking dead. I have nothing against gay people, but it doesn't fit into TWD in any way, shape or form. Sorry
Here's the short answer........NO!!!! The game is perfect how it is. I'd be very upset if TT tried to add gays to the walking dead. I have nothing against gay people, but it doesn't fit into TWD in any way, shape or form. Sorry
Fallout 2 had both gay and lesbian marriage and it's much earlier than this Mass Effect 3 (which I haven't played, so I can't comment meaningfulness of it's gay relationship).
And if you want gay action hero, then look at Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who and Torchwood. He is traditional action man, but with omnisexual orientation (although he seems to prefer male partners). Buffy the Vampire Slayer had both lesbian and gay characters in important and heroic roles. And John Constantine is bisexual, although it Keanu Reeves' portrayal of the character didn't underline this well know fact from the comics.
Personally my favourite gay couple from TV is Tobias Beecher and Chris Keller from HBO's Oz. While they aren't action heros both are rather tough and resilient characters.
The reason I'm using Mass Effect 3 as an example is quite obvious: its a big game, well-known and it was the first that included this serious … moregay option (except The Sims perhaps).
The gay community IS more vocal than many other groups, for no other reason than its ok being gay - we don't burn homosexuals at stake nowadays, at least not in the western world where it is as said, ok to be gay. And they feel that they want they needs satisfied as well in all fields, in this case in entertainment and game industry. The movie industry is still a long way off - when did we see a gay action hero, hm? And so on. So yes, they are more vocal and sure to be claiming their rights where they can (my brother is gay, active in that community and has quite plainly stated this, and he also said this is nothing new really).
This entire vocalization can also be applied to other groups - we do have female action heroes in both films and games, but how many fema… [view original content]
I ment the game. It would ruin the game IMO if they shift focus from survival, just to show that they can have gay people in the game too. Or any kind of romance for that matter. Let people decide for themselves who they think could be gay or straight or whatever. How do we know that anyone was even straight or gay in season 1? Maybe they were all gay? Nobody knows, and thats how it should be. If anyone wants more sexual identities, then just think of the characters as gay if you want. Somebody needs to kill this thread.......
While I agree that survival should be the main focus, based on the ending of 400 Days (where Tavia recruited people to larger community), I assume that we are going to see similar survivor community like Woodbury or Alexandria Safe-Zone (I'm hoping that it's more like Woodbury), where much of the focus will be in relations between the living characters. If one or two inhabitants of this community would be openly gay or lesbian it would hardly hijack the story.
I ment the game. It would ruin the game IMO if they shift focus from survival, just to show that they can have gay people in the game too. O… morer any kind of romance for that matter. Let people decide for themselves who they think could be gay or straight or whatever. How do we know that anyone was even straight or gay in season 1? Maybe they were all gay? Nobody knows, and thats how it should be. If anyone wants more sexual identities, then just think of the characters as gay if you want. Somebody needs to kill this thread.......
This is how we know who was straight in season one:
Kenny has a wife. Carley fancies Doug and Lee. Larry fancies Mrs Cannibal. The Crawford doctor trades pills for sex with a woman. Omid and Christa is a couple. Lee can make a move on Carley. Lee was married to a woman. His wife cheated on him with a man. You meet an old straight couple in 400 days. Nate is clearly attracted to women. Eddie and Wyatt also talk about it a lot. Hinted relationship between Bonnie and Leland.
It would ruin the game in the same way that having black characters ruins the game. Namely, it doesn't.
I ment the game. It would ruin the game IMO if they shift focus from survival, just to show that they can have gay people in the game too. O… morer any kind of romance for that matter. Let people decide for themselves who they think could be gay or straight or whatever. How do we know that anyone was even straight or gay in season 1? Maybe they were all gay? Nobody knows, and thats how it should be. If anyone wants more sexual identities, then just think of the characters as gay if you want. Somebody needs to kill this thread.......
Only for the sake of the fascinating discussions we could have, I'd love to have a gay character in next season who would be one of those "always agree with me or fuck off" characters like Kenny or Lily, a morally grey character that would be a pain in the ass if you don't side with him/her at every fucking choice.
And the player could decide wether to kick him/her out of the group at first opportunity or to become his/her best ally to the death.
I can already picture some threads ensuing : "How homophobia influenced players who refused to give food to X", "X-haters, try to prove you're not just plain homophobes" ; "Did your check your cisgender privilege before crushing X's self-confidence by not siding with zum when ze wanted to go to the left ?"
All the fun we'd have !
I barely remember fallout 2 (sorry), but IIRC, neither the gay or lesbian relationship had any weight and were more or less just thrown in like the shotgun wedding.
Regarding gay action heroes, well, I haven't seen Doctor Who or Torchwood (and I boycotted Buffy because I thought they crapped all over the vampire myths, just like Twilight), and omnisexual is just that; not gay (and what interpretation you choose to make is actually up to you).
None of your examples can however show that there is a constant stream of homosexual first characters or protagonists. I give you this list of either straight or most likely straight action heroes:
Rambo
Terminator
Rocky
Any character played by Sean Bean
Blade
Iron man
Batman
Superman
Spiderman
Hulk
Avengers
The Fantastic Four
James Bond
You want me to go on? And I think you are deliberately trying to misinterpret me: I support gay rights. I support gay characters in games and movies and what have you. I do however think that The Walking Dead game as presented and produced by TTG is not a fitting media for people with a defined sexual identity. Most of the people we met in season 1 were either straight (which we could tell because of their pre-existing relationships) or we weren't told because (and I should have this on my clipboard by now):
It.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
What.
Sexual.
Identity.
They.
Have.
Fallout 2 had both gay and lesbian marriage and it's much earlier than this Mass Effect 3 (which I haven't played, so I can't comment meaningf… moreulness of it's gay relationship).
And if you want gay action hero, then look at Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who and Torchwood. He is traditional action man, but with omnisexual orientation (although he seems to prefer male partners). Buffy the Vampire Slayer had both lesbian and gay characters in important and heroic roles. And John Constantine is bisexual, although it Keanu Reeves' portrayal of the character didn't underline this well know fact from the comics.
Personally my favourite gay couple from TV is Tobias Beecher and Chris Keller from HBO's Oz. While they aren't action heros both are rather tough and resilient characters.
While I generally agreed, I disagreed on a few points.
I'm just saying that there's a current trend in popular culture to include LGBT heroes to stories and when it comes to superheroes both Marvel and DC have homosexual superheroes, maybe they will end up to the movies as well. Besides there are plenty of other movies and TV-series which are about gay or lesbian characters and themes, like The L Word, Modern Family or The Crying Game.
I think that considering the amount of gay people in population they are rather well represented in media.
I barely remember fallout 2 (sorry), but IIRC, neither the gay or lesbian relationship had any weight and were more or less just thrown in lik… moree the shotgun wedding.
Regarding gay action heroes, well, I haven't seen Doctor Who or Torchwood (and I boycotted Buffy because I thought they crapped all over the vampire myths, just like Twilight), and omnisexual is just that; not gay (and what interpretation you choose to make is actually up to you).
None of your examples can however show that there is a constant stream of homosexual first characters or protagonists. I give you this list of either straight or most likely straight action heroes:
Rambo
Terminator
Rocky
Any character played by Sean Bean
Blade
Iron man
Batman
Superman
Spiderman
Hulk
Avengers
The Fantastic Four
James Bond
You want me to go on? And I think you are deliberately trying to misinterpret me: I support gay rights. I support gay characters in games and movies … [view original content]
All of you "pro gay" people take things way too literal. If you actually read my first post, i said i have nothing against gay people. But to put a gay character in TWD just so the character can say or imply that they are gay, is pointless and would only detract from the game. They already had gay characters in season one. Ben was gay with his friend that got shot/eaten in the woods. The woman you had to make a choice whether or not to shoot with kenny was a lesbian. Both Danny and Andy were gay. Lilly was a lesbian. Chuck was gay as well. If you ask me there is plenty of gay folk in TWD game already. Go ahead, PROVE ME WRONG. Oh wait, you can't. It's impossible, because we can't say for sure they weren't. Perhaps i was a little harsh, but TWD is about survival, not romance. If TT decides to make characters in relationships, it's never the focus in the game. The game is called "The Walking Dead," and not "Survive Zombies and Find Love" for a reason. It's one thing to have a couple "side" characters that may or may not be gay together, but to focus on that for even an instant, will turn off a lot of people to the game.
All of you "pro gay" people take things way too literal. If you actually read my first post, i said i have nothing against gay people. But t… moreo put a gay character in TWD just so the character can say or imply that they are gay, is pointless and would only detract from the game. They already had gay characters in season one. Ben was gay with his friend that got shot/eaten in the woods. The woman you had to make a choice whether or not to shoot with kenny was a lesbian. Both Danny and Andy were gay. Lilly was a lesbian. Chuck was gay as well. If you ask me there is plenty of gay folk in TWD game already. Go ahead, PROVE ME WRONG. Oh wait, you can't. It's impossible, because we can't say for sure they weren't. Perhaps i was a little harsh, but TWD is about survival, not romance. If TT decides to make characters in relationships, it's never the focus in the game. The game is called "The Walking Dead," and not "Survive Zombies and Find Lo… [view original content]
There is no need to imply anything, that is the whole point! If someone chooses to believe that a character is straight or gay why do you care? If you want gay characters so badly why don't you just choose to believe that they are? Why force your opinions on everyone else just because for you if a character isn't flamboyantly (sp) gay they HAVE to be straight? the majority of people in this world are straight, and TWD reflects that. To add gay characters and take the trouble to point it out just so that you know they are gay would throw off the balance and take away from the game. from reading this thread, im not alone in this thinking by a longshot. This is going to be my last post in this thread, because the very few pro-gay people posting here will always complain untill there is a flamboyant, pushy gay person who will announce in the game "HEY EVERYBODY I'M GAY!!! AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!" But being serious now, it's about what the consumers want. And when the vast majority doesn't want characters that are like that, its never going to happen. If you need the charactes to imply or say their orientation, then you have no imagination and I don't see why you play video games in the first place.
How on Earth do you know that woman and Travis were gay?
The point is, there are people from season one that IMPLIED they were straight. Why can we not, therefore, have people who IMPLY they're gay?
I don't even specifically 'want' a gay person more than I 'want' a straight person.
I just don't understand why some are opposed to the idea. I mean, heterosexuality has hit us over the head in some characters that it's so strong (eddie, nate), so I don't see why having a gay couple is so objectionable.
Also, do you have any poll evidence that suggest 'the vast majority' do not want ANY gay characters in games?
Last I check, the majority of Americans are pro gay marriage even, so I doubt there would be any 'vast majority' of the kind.
There is no need to imply anything, that is the whole point! If someone chooses to believe that a character is straight or gay why do you car… moree? If you want gay characters so badly why don't you just choose to believe that they are? Why force your opinions on everyone else just because for you if a character isn't flamboyantly (sp) gay they HAVE to be straight? the majority of people in this world are straight, and TWD reflects that. To add gay characters and take the trouble to point it out just so that you know they are gay would throw off the balance and take away from the game. from reading this thread, im not alone in this thinking by a longshot. This is going to be my last post in this thread, because the very few pro-gay people posting here will always complain untill there is a flamboyant, pushy gay person who will announce in the game "HEY EVERYBODY I'M GAY!!! AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!" But be… [view original content]
"I just don't understand why some are opposed to the idea."
= You want every single person to agree with you, and you can't get over the fact that some people won't.
You have already been reassured that most people who answered "no" to the original question of this thread meant it as in they don't specifically need gay characters in order to enjoy the game, not as in they absolutely refuse gay characters.
Can do with or without - but since the question is "would you like", it asks people if they have a voluntary desire for gay characters, which most don't.
On the total thread, you have at worst 2 or 3 persons who just plainly refuse the idea of gay characters, or want to "keep the game straight".
And you know what ? They have this perfect right anyway, it's about personal tastes in video games, that doesn't mean they would harass gay people in the streets, so stop acting as if it oppresses you as a person, or as if it's catastrophic or whatever.
Your little crusade is beginning to become annoying.
I don't want a flamboyant gay person.
I don't even specifically 'want' a gay person more than I 'want' a straight person.
I just don't u… morenderstand why some are opposed to the idea. I mean, heterosexuality has hit us over the head in some characters that it's so strong (eddie, nate), so I don't see why having a gay couple is so objectionable.
Also, do you have any poll evidence that suggest 'the vast majority' do not want ANY gay characters in games?
Last I check, the majority of Americans are pro gay marriage even, so I doubt there would be any 'vast majority' of the kind.
But why stop at sexual identities? People are more than their gender and sexual preference, right? How about having a couple of Jews in the mix, or even better, a couple of muslims? Or people with different political views, like neo-nazis, or klansmen? They are all minorities in the US as well, but some might have survived an outbreak, right?
If we are going to talk about having gay people in the game, we might as well discuss the inclusion of muslims and neo-nazis.
All of you "pro gay" people take things way too literal. If you actually read my first post, i said i have nothing against gay people. But t… moreo put a gay character in TWD just so the character can say or imply that they are gay, is pointless and would only detract from the game. They already had gay characters in season one. Ben was gay with his friend that got shot/eaten in the woods. The woman you had to make a choice whether or not to shoot with kenny was a lesbian. Both Danny and Andy were gay. Lilly was a lesbian. Chuck was gay as well. If you ask me there is plenty of gay folk in TWD game already. Go ahead, PROVE ME WRONG. Oh wait, you can't. It's impossible, because we can't say for sure they weren't. Perhaps i was a little harsh, but TWD is about survival, not romance. If TT decides to make characters in relationships, it's never the focus in the game. The game is called "The Walking Dead," and not "Survive Zombies and Find Lo… [view original content]
This thread made me think, so I talked to a gay friend yesterday, what's his opinion about it. His answer was really interesting, I try to sum it up:
While earlier the discrimination of gay people was very present it now is limited on eastern countries / conservative countries. Of course there are still a lot of people in other regions making gay jokes or some heterosexuals being full of hatred against homosexuals, but it really is nearly gone in his opinion (we are germans, don't know what's everyday life in US/UK ). He even thinks the people have never been nicer to him when his sexuality comes up. Though, what really annoys him is the fact some people try to be overly friendly to him, always raising his homosexuality, thinking stereotypically ("wanna go shopping?"), making a big deal of it infront of other people, even showing off having a gay friend and being oh so openminded. He just wants to be seen as himself, not as "Mister Nice Gay". What also really bugs him is the exaggerated presence of gays in the media nowadays. In principle there's nothing bad about it, quite the contrary, but very often he finds some actors / hosts misplaced because of the permanent mentioning of their sexuality - as if it really mattered. He sees it as a try converting the people to gay friendly behavior and openness, which is OK. But treating people truly normally means not making a big deal of their sexuality. Straight people don't say "by the way, I am straight", why should gay people? And what really upsets him is the overplayed pseudo-gay appearance and behavior the media serves us. No, most gays don't raise most of their energy in their flawless looks. No, they don't speak with higher voice and perfect pronunciation. They also don't have a lot of female frineds they can go shopping with - but the media, that tries to convert us does give us the impression gays being like this (e.g. quote: "Kurt Hummel from "Glee" - who the hell wrote that stereotypical character?"). Not only straight people but also most gays find that kind of person really annoying. Thus the media achieves the opposite: the society finding gay people as some kind of annoying and swishy alien creatures instead of seeing them as a common part of our society.
Coming to the subject of this thread: Gay people are as normal as everybody else. They don't introduce themselves as being gay, that'd be ridiculous ("Hi, I am Ben - and by the way: I am gay!"). This means if there was a gay character we couldn't even differentiate between him and the other group members just from the looks. I think everybody agrees that classical romantic scenes are out of place in TWD universe. The only way the gay character could be introduced as such would be a casual reference that fits the story, e.g. the gay character saying "I've lost my boyfriend, we got seperated" or something similar. On the other hand: would it make any difference if the character said "There were two of us, unfortunately we got seperated"? It's the same message without revealing the sexuality. As someone said: People are more than their gender and sexual preference. Revealing the sexuality would maybe make the character stand out since gay people are still a minority but the message would still be the same. If there were a gay couple, intimate hobnob would be as much out of place as for straight couples (look at Omid and Christa: they are not holding hands or kissing or saying lover's oaths because it never fit any scene, and yet nobody doubts they are a great couple). Of course Telltale could write a kissing gay couple, but why would there be a need to?
Summing up: there is no need in highlighting sexual interests as it doesn't make any differences in TWD universe. If there is a gay character and Telltale wants us to know about it the revealing must fit the context and storyline. Apart from that homosexuals aren't any different than straight persons. My gay friend knows some people might have the feeling to vouch for gays (like some of you in this thread obviously do) but this is really not necessary. You do it best not trying to be an advocate for gay needs, you make it worse unintentionally.
Yeah, I know you said this is your last post on here, but for the benefit of anyone reading this that thinks you have any actual point to make, I'm going to respond to this anyway because this post annoys me in a variety of ways.
If you want gay characters so badly why don't you just choose to believe that they are?
People already do that, and it's been well documented that doing so raises the ire of idiots who say, "NO NO! Stop trying to make everyone gay! They're supposed to be straight!" I follow a blog of a fan of this game who does this with characters like say, Shel and Stephanie, whose personal sexual preferences are not known. And what do you know? Straight people have bitched and moaned about it and declared the characters' heterosexuality.
Now of course, they're within their rights to believe the characters are straight, I'm not saying you would agree with these people, and the fact that stupid people whine about it doesn't at all discourage her or anyone else from believing some characters are gay, but it goes to show that it's not some easy solution that people are just overlooking.
And in the end, if the best someone can do as far as finding a positive gay character in the series is to simply pretend that they are gay, well... that should say it all right there. Believe it or not, gay people would like to see more positive gay people in media because of the overwhelming bad portrayals they get, even in shows that are meant to preach tolerance. They don't fully identify with a straight character, just like how many straight people don't identify with gay characters because they're gay. That's not an issue of homophobia either, so don't think I'm going down that road. It's just a matter of being different. It's how humans are wired most of the time.
Also, the fact that you have characterized the inclusion of a gay character as being for romance or solely for the purpose of saying they're gay shows that you're coming into this whole debate with a flawed point of view.
because the very few pro-gay people posting here will always complain untill there is a flamboyant, pushy gay person who will announce in the game "HEY EVERYBODY I'M GAY!!! AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!"
Even if you're not being "serious" here, this is a pretty big asspull on your part. Nobody in favor of the idea has even breathed the suggestion of having a stereotypical gay person in the series that mentions they are gay at every turn. In fact, everyone has pretty much agreed that that's a bad idea. The fact that you misrepresent positions like this really doesn't work in your favor.
And when the vast majority doesn't want characters that are like that, its never going to happen.
Ignoring the fact that you have no way of knowing this, if this were the case for everything, gay characters simply wouldn't exist in media at all. But that's clearly not the case, so why does majority rule in this case?
I don't mean to sound like I'm pretentiously crusading or some crap, but it really does make me raise an eyebrow when someone implies that "the majority" don't want gay people in some form of media, when it's also increasingly common these days for straight people (aka, the majority) to say, "man, who cares if someone is gay? nobody cares anymore, just be what you want." Regardless of how inaccurate this may or may not be, it's a pretty big discrepancy in the logic I'm seeing here.
If you need the charactes to imply or say their orientation, then you have no imagination and I don't see why you play video games in the first place.
And this is just an incredibly dumb remark. The implication that one needs to have some form of great imagination to play video games is fundamentally false. The only way imagination factors into this is what you do with the game after playing it, in the form of fanfiction, fanart, whatever. But all of that is irrelevant to playing the game itself, which is for fun and nothing more.
There is no need to imply anything, that is the whole point! If someone chooses to believe that a character is straight or gay why do you car… moree? If you want gay characters so badly why don't you just choose to believe that they are? Why force your opinions on everyone else just because for you if a character isn't flamboyantly (sp) gay they HAVE to be straight? the majority of people in this world are straight, and TWD reflects that. To add gay characters and take the trouble to point it out just so that you know they are gay would throw off the balance and take away from the game. from reading this thread, im not alone in this thinking by a longshot. This is going to be my last post in this thread, because the very few pro-gay people posting here will always complain untill there is a flamboyant, pushy gay person who will announce in the game "HEY EVERYBODY I'M GAY!!! AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!" But be… [view original content]
Just because you are gay, please don't push your lifestyle on everybody else.
And there it is. The stupid, "they're pushing they're lifestyle on us" bullshit. For the record, I'm straight and thus have no way of identifying with the struggle of a gay person, and nor do I have a vested interest in the inclusion of gay people in media. I'd like to see more, but only because I understand how other people feel, not because I feel it's in my interests. But I don't have to be to see that asking for the inclusion of gay characters is in no way tantamount to pushing lifestyles on us, on top of the fact that it's not a damn "lifestyle" to begin with. Just like how including a racist bastard like Merle in the TV show didn't push his "lifestyle" on me, despite the fact that racists are supposedly a minority these days. No different for a gay character. The fact that people view putting gay people in media as some kind of pushy behavior is nothing but the whining of the majority. What you're saying has been said for a very long time, and it's just as false as it's always been. Nobody is saying gay people need to be in everything. But at the mere suggestion of gay people in this game on this thread, you have now jumped onto "pushing their lifestyles on us". That says it all right there.
And the comparison to religion? Seriously? You're honestly going to compare gay people getting more light in media to trying to tell you that your personal religion is wrong and that you should follow someone else's? Yeah, no. Stupid comparison in every way.
"I just don't understand why some are opposed to the idea."
= You want every single person to agree with you, and you can't get over the fa… morect that some people won't.
You have already been reassured that most people who answered "no" to the original question of this thread meant it as in they don't specifically need gay characters in order to enjoy the game, not as in they absolutely refuse gay characters.
Can do with or without - but since the question is "would you like", it asks people if they have a voluntary desire for gay characters, which most don't.
On the total thread, you have at worst 2 or 3 persons who just plainly refuse the idea of gay characters, or want to "keep the game straight".
And you know what ? They have this perfect right anyway, it's about personal tastes in video games, that doesn't mean they would harass gay people in the streets, so stop acting as if it oppresses you as a person, or as if it's catastrophic or whatever.
Your little crusade is beginning to become annoying.
I sincerely hope your comparison between Jews, Muslims, neo-nazis and members of the kkk was just a statistical comparison and not some sort of moral equivalency. Or were you comparing how controversial being a nazi is to being LGBTQ? Because if you see an openly gay person and in your head you're saying, "This is as inappropriate as a klansman getting to spout off his ideas about the world," you are a vicious bigot, plain and simple. I wasn't exactly clear about your meaning, so I apologize if I'm making unwarranted accusations.
I recall our friend Omid from season 1 is of Persian descent, and is therefore more likely to be a practicing Muslim. I think if it was revealed that he was a follower of Islam, it would have made for good drama among the group. Even if the scene was as simple as them regarding it as a non-issue, I would've liked to see that story. Oh well, the developers' choice. Still a great game.
For myself, I would love to see some Jews, Buddhists, Mormons, Native Americans, etc. - whatever you can throw at me. White Christians are fine, but I think a person having a rarer background is a quick route to a more unique character. And how about the disabled? Taking care of people with physical or mental challenges can up the drama in a tense situation. Hell, I'd even love to see the neo-nazis or kkk, so long as the game didn't go out of its way to promote their destructive ideologies.
TWD is not a statistical analysis of the population of the Atlanta area. Nor is being represented in the game some special privilege, or gift that the Writers/Developers give to one group or another. Seeing "average" people in this horrible situation is powerful and important, but a game where everyone is the same is just boring and cowardly.
Thank you - I fully agree.
But why stop at sexual identities? People are more than their gender and sexual preference, right? How about hav… moreing a couple of Jews in the mix, or even better, a couple of muslims? Or people with different political views, like neo-nazis, or klansmen? They are all minorities in the US as well, but some might have survived an outbreak, right?
If we are going to talk about having gay people in the game, we might as well discuss the inclusion of muslims and neo-nazis.
I wasn't going to post here but again doing so just to agree with someone. What missus said is exactly what I was trying to say earlier, except she said it way better than i ever could. "Straight people don't say "by the way, I am straight", why should gay people?" THERE, that is why there shouldn't be "implied" gays. it doesnt matter and is unnatural for someone to out themselves like that. Stop trying to change a perfect game.
Yeah, nobody does say "Hey, I'm [name], and I'm straight/gay/bisexual/asexual. And yet we know many characters in the first season being straight. It's just no big deal. It's mentioned by their relationships to people. Not by saying explicitly "I'm straight". And I think a gay character would be the same. He/she could mourn her/his partner and tell about him/her or something like that.
What bugs me in this thread is that some people say nobody "outs" himself as straight, therefore there shouldn't be an "outed" gay character. That actually is a problem in the society as well. Some people don't realize that straight people "out" themselves all the time, by telling people that they have husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends. They just don't realize they do it, because that's the "standard".
We know that the following are (most likely) straight: Lee, Carley, Doug, Kenny, Katja, Brenda, Omid, Chista, Larry, Glenn, Irene (maybe more,that are the ones that came to my mind)
The other ones we don't know. Could Ben be gay? Perhaps. Molly? Who knows?
I think, we don't "need" a gay character. As much as we didn't "need" a black character. But if someone was gay, so be it.
I wasn't going to post here but again doing so just to agree with someone. What missus said is exactly what I was trying to say earlier, exce… morept she said it way better than i ever could. "Straight people don't say "by the way, I am straight", why should gay people?" THERE, that is why there shouldn't be "implied" gays. it doesnt matter and is unnatural for someone to out themselves like that. Stop trying to change a perfect game.
I think The Last Of us handled that in a good way. Bill was appearently gay, but it was never explicitly said. But they do find his ex-"partner" who hanged himself and a gay porno magazine at Bill's, so yeah he is gay and we know it. And yet he never said "I'm gay".
Yeah, nobody does say "Hey, I'm [name], and I'm straight/gay/bisexual/asexual. And yet we know many characters in the first season being strai… moreght. It's just no big deal. It's mentioned by their relationships to people. Not by saying explicitly "I'm straight". And I think a gay character would be the same. He/she could mourn her/his partner and tell about him/her or something like that.
What bugs me in this thread is that some people say nobody "outs" himself as straight, therefore there shouldn't be an "outed" gay character. That actually is a problem in the society as well. Some people don't realize that straight people "out" themselves all the time, by telling people that they have husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends. They just don't realize they do it, because that's the "standard".
We know that the following are (most likely) straight: Lee, Carley, Doug, Kenny, Katja, Brenda, Omid, Chista, Larry, Glenn, Irene (maybe more,that are the … [view original content]
I played through episode 2 again today and I'm even more convinced that Mark was gay. He repeatedly looks to Lee for advice and, during the fence sequence, is constantly seeking affirmation for his own thoughts and opinions. When he complained that I hadn't fed him (I've done so before and wanted to see different reactions. Don't feed Larry. He's an ungrateful dick.) he sounded not necessarily hurt, but betrayed. And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away. He looked up to Lee even more than Carley.
I'm almost certain Mark was gay. If he was, he was bloody well-written. If not, then I just loaded some black powder into my head canon.
@FatTonyVG wrote: And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away.
I remember this scene, never understood what it was all about, but your analysis makes sense. I don't wanna play the whole episode again - do you remember in what context this scene plays, so I can watch it on YouTube?
I played through episode 2 again today and I'm even more convinced that Mark was gay. He repeatedly looks to Lee for advice and, during the fe… morence sequence, is constantly seeking affirmation for his own thoughts and opinions. When he complained that I hadn't fed him (I've done so before and wanted to see different reactions. Don't feed Larry. He's an ungrateful dick.) he sounded not necessarily hurt, but betrayed. And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away. He looked up to Lee even more than Carley.
I'm almost certain Mark was gay. If he was, he was bloody well-written. If not, then I just loaded some black powder into my head canon.
Interesting theory. Might be true, I don't really know, personally I just thought that he was annoying and I was mostly hostile towards him, because my initial reaction was: "Who is this guy, a redshirt?" and I didn't want to become friends with him, so I gave food and axe to Larry instead of him (besides Larry was one of my favourite characters).
I played through episode 2 again today and I'm even more convinced that Mark was gay. He repeatedly looks to Lee for advice and, during the fe… morence sequence, is constantly seeking affirmation for his own thoughts and opinions. When he complained that I hadn't fed him (I've done so before and wanted to see different reactions. Don't feed Larry. He's an ungrateful dick.) he sounded not necessarily hurt, but betrayed. And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away. He looked up to Lee even more than Carley.
I'm almost certain Mark was gay. If he was, he was bloody well-written. If not, then I just loaded some black powder into my head canon.
@FatTonyVG wrote: And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away.
… more
I remember this scene, never understood what it was all about, but your analysis makes sense. I don't wanna play the whole episode again - do you remember in what context this scene plays, so I can watch it on YouTube?
It would be interesting to see TellTale put in an openly LBGT character, although it's not entirely nessacary. They don't need to include a LGBT character just to show that they can or just to please fans.
If it's actually part of the story, I would be alright with it. Otherwise, I don't really see the need. It's not like they're entirely different people, so they aren't going to have a different reactions pertaining to the zombies.
I don't know, I trust the judgement of TellTale for whatever they decide, but I kind of doubt they'll do it.
Comments
The romance discussion is irrelevant to this thread. The question is, would you like any (non-romancable of course, as there should be no romance) gay characters in TWD season two. And I'm curious as to why so many people are saying no.
EDIT: I just realised that your comment wasn't directed at me (damn this new forum), however I am going to leave this here because the last comment I made was still relevant.
Why?
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Well that's just about the most offensive way you could have chosen to phrase that fairly moderate viewpoint. Consider an edit.
The reason I'm using Mass Effect 3 as an example is quite obvious: its a big game, well-known and it was the first that included this serious gay option (except The Sims perhaps).
The gay community IS more vocal than many other groups, for no other reason than its ok being gay - we don't burn homosexuals at stake nowadays, at least not in the western world where it is as said, ok to be gay. And they feel that they want they needs satisfied as well in all fields, in this case in entertainment and game industry. The movie industry is still a long way off - when did we see a gay action hero, hm? And so on. So yes, they are more vocal and sure to be claiming their rights where they can (my brother is gay, active in that community and has quite plainly stated this, and he also said this is nothing new really).
This entire vocalization can also be applied to other groups - we do have female action heroes in both films and games, but how many female, lesbian Jewish action heroes do we have? How many Jewish straight male action heroes? Blacks have theirs in Will Smith and a bunch of other actors, we have our very own Lee and so on, so blacks are pretty well supplied here, just as females.
This boils down to one thing: money. In the US, blacks are still a minority, but a much larger minority than they used to be, and they have the same rights as whites. All is well there. Women have had their liberation and incidentally make up 50% of the population. Both are very large groups, which means excluding either means a company looses a lot of money.
Gays though (or people overall with a non-straight sexual orientation) makes up around 10-15% of the population, and many have the kind of sexual orientation that no matter what you might think, rubs other people the wrong way. That means that by catering to this group means that you have to spend a lot of time and money for a quite small return from a small minority (less people = less money), as well as possibly getting a smaller revenue from the more narrow-minded people.
Which means that Bioware took a huge risk by including that gay character. And here is a good point already brought up by Flog61: the earlier games in the triology already had lesbian alternatives, so the gay alternative was lacking. But: people generally see girl on girl as much hotter than guy on guy, and up to that moment when Mass effect got its reputation as a great game, most gamers had been guys. Essentially Bioware took care of their customers here.
Compare with an earlier game, Baldurs gate 2. A male protagonist had three romantic options - all female. But a female protagonist only had one, and this for the exact same reason: most gamers were guys, and most guys prefer straight realtionships - and lacking that, lesbian relationships. Again, this was during a time when most gamers were straight (white) males.
Regarding Lee and Carly, I said that was one way of interpret their relation - besides, I never played it so I got that line from her.
^ This. The game is not about romance but you meet enough survivors in the game that your bound to come across a gay survivor at some point. So long as they are well written and their sexuality isn't made a primary focus, then I wouldn't mind seeing a gay character. Perhaps when your getting to know them, they mention they lost their partner to the walkers or it's a gay couple trying to survive the zombie Apocalypse like everyone else.
Here's the short answer........NO!!!! The game is perfect how it is. I'd be very upset if TT tried to add gays to the walking dead. I have nothing against gay people, but it doesn't fit into TWD in any way, shape or form. Sorry
So, you think that Eric and Aaron or Dexter and Andrew from the comics don't fit into The Walking Dead -universe?
Fallout 2 had both gay and lesbian marriage and it's much earlier than this Mass Effect 3 (which I haven't played, so I can't comment meaningfulness of it's gay relationship).
And if you want gay action hero, then look at Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who and Torchwood. He is traditional action man, but with omnisexual orientation (although he seems to prefer male partners). Buffy the Vampire Slayer had both lesbian and gay characters in important and heroic roles. And John Constantine is bisexual, although it Keanu Reeves' portrayal of the character didn't underline this well know fact from the comics.
Personally my favourite gay couple from TV is Tobias Beecher and Chris Keller from HBO's Oz. While they aren't action heros both are rather tough and resilient characters.
I ment the game. It would ruin the game IMO if they shift focus from survival, just to show that they can have gay people in the game too. Or any kind of romance for that matter. Let people decide for themselves who they think could be gay or straight or whatever. How do we know that anyone was even straight or gay in season 1? Maybe they were all gay? Nobody knows, and thats how it should be. If anyone wants more sexual identities, then just think of the characters as gay if you want. Somebody needs to kill this thread.......
While I agree that survival should be the main focus, based on the ending of 400 Days (where Tavia recruited people to larger community), I assume that we are going to see similar survivor community like Woodbury or Alexandria Safe-Zone (I'm hoping that it's more like Woodbury), where much of the focus will be in relations between the living characters. If one or two inhabitants of this community would be openly gay or lesbian it would hardly hijack the story.
This is how we know who was straight in season one:
Kenny has a wife. Carley fancies Doug and Lee. Larry fancies Mrs Cannibal. The Crawford doctor trades pills for sex with a woman. Omid and Christa is a couple. Lee can make a move on Carley. Lee was married to a woman. His wife cheated on him with a man. You meet an old straight couple in 400 days. Nate is clearly attracted to women. Eddie and Wyatt also talk about it a lot. Hinted relationship between Bonnie and Leland.
It would ruin the game in the same way that having black characters ruins the game. Namely, it doesn't.
Only for the sake of the fascinating discussions we could have, I'd love to have a gay character in next season who would be one of those "always agree with me or fuck off" characters like Kenny or Lily, a morally grey character that would be a pain in the ass if you don't side with him/her at every fucking choice.
And the player could decide wether to kick him/her out of the group at first opportunity or to become his/her best ally to the death.
I can already picture some threads ensuing : "How homophobia influenced players who refused to give food to X", "X-haters, try to prove you're not just plain homophobes" ; "Did your check your cisgender privilege before crushing X's self-confidence by not siding with zum when ze wanted to go to the left ?"
All the fun we'd have !
I barely remember fallout 2 (sorry), but IIRC, neither the gay or lesbian relationship had any weight and were more or less just thrown in like the shotgun wedding.
Regarding gay action heroes, well, I haven't seen Doctor Who or Torchwood (and I boycotted Buffy because I thought they crapped all over the vampire myths, just like Twilight), and omnisexual is just that; not gay (and what interpretation you choose to make is actually up to you).
None of your examples can however show that there is a constant stream of homosexual first characters or protagonists. I give you this list of either straight or most likely straight action heroes:
Rambo
Terminator
Rocky
Any character played by Sean Bean
Blade
Iron man
Batman
Superman
Spiderman
Hulk
Avengers
The Fantastic Four
James Bond
You want me to go on? And I think you are deliberately trying to misinterpret me: I support gay rights. I support gay characters in games and movies and what have you. I do however think that The Walking Dead game as presented and produced by TTG is not a fitting media for people with a defined sexual identity. Most of the people we met in season 1 were either straight (which we could tell because of their pre-existing relationships) or we weren't told because (and I should have this on my clipboard by now):
It.
Does.
Not.
Matter.
What.
Sexual.
Identity.
They.
Have.
While I generally agreed, I disagreed on a few points.
I'm just saying that there's a current trend in popular culture to include LGBT heroes to stories and when it comes to superheroes both Marvel and DC have homosexual superheroes, maybe they will end up to the movies as well. Besides there are plenty of other movies and TV-series which are about gay or lesbian characters and themes, like The L Word, Modern Family or The Crying Game.
I think that considering the amount of gay people in population they are rather well represented in media.
All of you "pro gay" people take things way too literal. If you actually read my first post, i said i have nothing against gay people. But to put a gay character in TWD just so the character can say or imply that they are gay, is pointless and would only detract from the game. They already had gay characters in season one. Ben was gay with his friend that got shot/eaten in the woods. The woman you had to make a choice whether or not to shoot with kenny was a lesbian. Both Danny and Andy were gay. Lilly was a lesbian. Chuck was gay as well. If you ask me there is plenty of gay folk in TWD game already. Go ahead, PROVE ME WRONG. Oh wait, you can't. It's impossible, because we can't say for sure they weren't. Perhaps i was a little harsh, but TWD is about survival, not romance. If TT decides to make characters in relationships, it's never the focus in the game. The game is called "The Walking Dead," and not "Survive Zombies and Find Love" for a reason. It's one thing to have a couple "side" characters that may or may not be gay together, but to focus on that for even an instant, will turn off a lot of people to the game.
How on Earth do you know that woman and Travis were gay?
The point is, there are people from season one that IMPLIED they were straight. Why can we not, therefore, have people who IMPLY they're gay?
There is no need to imply anything, that is the whole point! If someone chooses to believe that a character is straight or gay why do you care? If you want gay characters so badly why don't you just choose to believe that they are? Why force your opinions on everyone else just because for you if a character isn't flamboyantly (sp) gay they HAVE to be straight? the majority of people in this world are straight, and TWD reflects that. To add gay characters and take the trouble to point it out just so that you know they are gay would throw off the balance and take away from the game. from reading this thread, im not alone in this thinking by a longshot. This is going to be my last post in this thread, because the very few pro-gay people posting here will always complain untill there is a flamboyant, pushy gay person who will announce in the game "HEY EVERYBODY I'M GAY!!! AND I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!" But being serious now, it's about what the consumers want. And when the vast majority doesn't want characters that are like that, its never going to happen. If you need the charactes to imply or say their orientation, then you have no imagination and I don't see why you play video games in the first place.
I don't want a flamboyant gay person.
I don't even specifically 'want' a gay person more than I 'want' a straight person.
I just don't understand why some are opposed to the idea. I mean, heterosexuality has hit us over the head in some characters that it's so strong (eddie, nate), so I don't see why having a gay couple is so objectionable.
Also, do you have any poll evidence that suggest 'the vast majority' do not want ANY gay characters in games?
Last I check, the majority of Americans are pro gay marriage even, so I doubt there would be any 'vast majority' of the kind.
"I just don't understand why some are opposed to the idea."
= You want every single person to agree with you, and you can't get over the fact that some people won't.
You have already been reassured that most people who answered "no" to the original question of this thread meant it as in they don't specifically need gay characters in order to enjoy the game, not as in they absolutely refuse gay characters.
Can do with or without - but since the question is "would you like", it asks people if they have a voluntary desire for gay characters, which most don't.
On the total thread, you have at worst 2 or 3 persons who just plainly refuse the idea of gay characters, or want to "keep the game straight".
And you know what ? They have this perfect right anyway, it's about personal tastes in video games, that doesn't mean they would harass gay people in the streets, so stop acting as if it oppresses you as a person, or as if it's catastrophic or whatever.
Your little crusade is beginning to become annoying.
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Thank you - I fully agree.
But why stop at sexual identities? People are more than their gender and sexual preference, right? How about having a couple of Jews in the mix, or even better, a couple of muslims? Or people with different political views, like neo-nazis, or klansmen? They are all minorities in the US as well, but some might have survived an outbreak, right?
If we are going to talk about having gay people in the game, we might as well discuss the inclusion of muslims and neo-nazis.
...Actually, it was implied that Danny was a pedophile, if I'm not mistaken...
This thread made me think, so I talked to a gay friend yesterday, what's his opinion about it. His answer was really interesting, I try to sum it up:
While earlier the discrimination of gay people was very present it now is limited on eastern countries / conservative countries. Of course there are still a lot of people in other regions making gay jokes or some heterosexuals being full of hatred against homosexuals, but it really is nearly gone in his opinion (we are germans, don't know what's everyday life in US/UK ). He even thinks the people have never been nicer to him when his sexuality comes up. Though, what really annoys him is the fact some people try to be overly friendly to him, always raising his homosexuality, thinking stereotypically ("wanna go shopping?"), making a big deal of it infront of other people, even showing off having a gay friend and being oh so openminded. He just wants to be seen as himself, not as "Mister Nice Gay". What also really bugs him is the exaggerated presence of gays in the media nowadays. In principle there's nothing bad about it, quite the contrary, but very often he finds some actors / hosts misplaced because of the permanent mentioning of their sexuality - as if it really mattered. He sees it as a try converting the people to gay friendly behavior and openness, which is OK. But treating people truly normally means not making a big deal of their sexuality. Straight people don't say "by the way, I am straight", why should gay people? And what really upsets him is the overplayed pseudo-gay appearance and behavior the media serves us. No, most gays don't raise most of their energy in their flawless looks. No, they don't speak with higher voice and perfect pronunciation. They also don't have a lot of female frineds they can go shopping with - but the media, that tries to convert us does give us the impression gays being like this (e.g. quote: "Kurt Hummel from "Glee" - who the hell wrote that stereotypical character?"). Not only straight people but also most gays find that kind of person really annoying. Thus the media achieves the opposite: the society finding gay people as some kind of annoying and swishy alien creatures instead of seeing them as a common part of our society.
Coming to the subject of this thread: Gay people are as normal as everybody else. They don't introduce themselves as being gay, that'd be ridiculous ("Hi, I am Ben - and by the way: I am gay!"). This means if there was a gay character we couldn't even differentiate between him and the other group members just from the looks. I think everybody agrees that classical romantic scenes are out of place in TWD universe. The only way the gay character could be introduced as such would be a casual reference that fits the story, e.g. the gay character saying "I've lost my boyfriend, we got seperated" or something similar. On the other hand: would it make any difference if the character said "There were two of us, unfortunately we got seperated"? It's the same message without revealing the sexuality. As someone said: People are more than their gender and sexual preference. Revealing the sexuality would maybe make the character stand out since gay people are still a minority but the message would still be the same. If there were a gay couple, intimate hobnob would be as much out of place as for straight couples (look at Omid and Christa: they are not holding hands or kissing or saying lover's oaths because it never fit any scene, and yet nobody doubts they are a great couple). Of course Telltale could write a kissing gay couple, but why would there be a need to?
Summing up: there is no need in highlighting sexual interests as it doesn't make any differences in TWD universe. If there is a gay character and Telltale wants us to know about it the revealing must fit the context and storyline. Apart from that homosexuals aren't any different than straight persons. My gay friend knows some people might have the feeling to vouch for gays (like some of you in this thread obviously do) but this is really not necessary. You do it best not trying to be an advocate for gay needs, you make it worse unintentionally.
Yeah, I know you said this is your last post on here, but for the benefit of anyone reading this that thinks you have any actual point to make, I'm going to respond to this anyway because this post annoys me in a variety of ways.
People already do that, and it's been well documented that doing so raises the ire of idiots who say, "NO NO! Stop trying to make everyone gay! They're supposed to be straight!" I follow a blog of a fan of this game who does this with characters like say, Shel and Stephanie, whose personal sexual preferences are not known. And what do you know? Straight people have bitched and moaned about it and declared the characters' heterosexuality.
Now of course, they're within their rights to believe the characters are straight, I'm not saying you would agree with these people, and the fact that stupid people whine about it doesn't at all discourage her or anyone else from believing some characters are gay, but it goes to show that it's not some easy solution that people are just overlooking.
And in the end, if the best someone can do as far as finding a positive gay character in the series is to simply pretend that they are gay, well... that should say it all right there. Believe it or not, gay people would like to see more positive gay people in media because of the overwhelming bad portrayals they get, even in shows that are meant to preach tolerance. They don't fully identify with a straight character, just like how many straight people don't identify with gay characters because they're gay. That's not an issue of homophobia either, so don't think I'm going down that road. It's just a matter of being different. It's how humans are wired most of the time.
Also, the fact that you have characterized the inclusion of a gay character as being for romance or solely for the purpose of saying they're gay shows that you're coming into this whole debate with a flawed point of view.
Even if you're not being "serious" here, this is a pretty big asspull on your part. Nobody in favor of the idea has even breathed the suggestion of having a stereotypical gay person in the series that mentions they are gay at every turn. In fact, everyone has pretty much agreed that that's a bad idea. The fact that you misrepresent positions like this really doesn't work in your favor.
Ignoring the fact that you have no way of knowing this, if this were the case for everything, gay characters simply wouldn't exist in media at all. But that's clearly not the case, so why does majority rule in this case?
I don't mean to sound like I'm pretentiously crusading or some crap, but it really does make me raise an eyebrow when someone implies that "the majority" don't want gay people in some form of media, when it's also increasingly common these days for straight people (aka, the majority) to say, "man, who cares if someone is gay? nobody cares anymore, just be what you want." Regardless of how inaccurate this may or may not be, it's a pretty big discrepancy in the logic I'm seeing here.
And this is just an incredibly dumb remark. The implication that one needs to have some form of great imagination to play video games is fundamentally false. The only way imagination factors into this is what you do with the game after playing it, in the form of fanfiction, fanart, whatever. But all of that is irrelevant to playing the game itself, which is for fun and nothing more.
And there it is. The stupid, "they're pushing they're lifestyle on us" bullshit. For the record, I'm straight and thus have no way of identifying with the struggle of a gay person, and nor do I have a vested interest in the inclusion of gay people in media. I'd like to see more, but only because I understand how other people feel, not because I feel it's in my interests. But I don't have to be to see that asking for the inclusion of gay characters is in no way tantamount to pushing lifestyles on us, on top of the fact that it's not a damn "lifestyle" to begin with. Just like how including a racist bastard like Merle in the TV show didn't push his "lifestyle" on me, despite the fact that racists are supposedly a minority these days. No different for a gay character. The fact that people view putting gay people in media as some kind of pushy behavior is nothing but the whining of the majority. What you're saying has been said for a very long time, and it's just as false as it's always been. Nobody is saying gay people need to be in everything. But at the mere suggestion of gay people in this game on this thread, you have now jumped onto "pushing their lifestyles on us". That says it all right there.
And the comparison to religion? Seriously? You're honestly going to compare gay people getting more light in media to trying to tell you that your personal religion is wrong and that you should follow someone else's? Yeah, no. Stupid comparison in every way.
I agree
I sincerely hope your comparison between Jews, Muslims, neo-nazis and members of the kkk was just a statistical comparison and not some sort of moral equivalency. Or were you comparing how controversial being a nazi is to being LGBTQ? Because if you see an openly gay person and in your head you're saying, "This is as inappropriate as a klansman getting to spout off his ideas about the world," you are a vicious bigot, plain and simple. I wasn't exactly clear about your meaning, so I apologize if I'm making unwarranted accusations.
I recall our friend Omid from season 1 is of Persian descent, and is therefore more likely to be a practicing Muslim. I think if it was revealed that he was a follower of Islam, it would have made for good drama among the group. Even if the scene was as simple as them regarding it as a non-issue, I would've liked to see that story. Oh well, the developers' choice. Still a great game.
For myself, I would love to see some Jews, Buddhists, Mormons, Native Americans, etc. - whatever you can throw at me. White Christians are fine, but I think a person having a rarer background is a quick route to a more unique character. And how about the disabled? Taking care of people with physical or mental challenges can up the drama in a tense situation. Hell, I'd even love to see the neo-nazis or kkk, so long as the game didn't go out of its way to promote their destructive ideologies.
TWD is not a statistical analysis of the population of the Atlanta area. Nor is being represented in the game some special privilege, or gift that the Writers/Developers give to one group or another. Seeing "average" people in this horrible situation is powerful and important, but a game where everyone is the same is just boring and cowardly.
I wasn't going to post here but again doing so just to agree with someone. What missus said is exactly what I was trying to say earlier, except she said it way better than i ever could. "Straight people don't say "by the way, I am straight", why should gay people?" THERE, that is why there shouldn't be "implied" gays. it doesnt matter and is unnatural for someone to out themselves like that. Stop trying to change a perfect game.
I've edited your post to remove the offensive word. Watch the language in future, Cyphox.
editing my post makes no sense at all when you repeat the bad word in your post. consider an edit.
Oh for...
Yeah, nobody does say "Hey, I'm [name], and I'm straight/gay/bisexual/asexual. And yet we know many characters in the first season being straight. It's just no big deal. It's mentioned by their relationships to people. Not by saying explicitly "I'm straight". And I think a gay character would be the same. He/she could mourn her/his partner and tell about him/her or something like that.
What bugs me in this thread is that some people say nobody "outs" himself as straight, therefore there shouldn't be an "outed" gay character. That actually is a problem in the society as well. Some people don't realize that straight people "out" themselves all the time, by telling people that they have husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends. They just don't realize they do it, because that's the "standard".
We know that the following are (most likely) straight: Lee, Carley, Doug, Kenny, Katja, Brenda, Omid, Chista, Larry, Glenn, Irene (maybe more,that are the ones that came to my mind)
The other ones we don't know. Could Ben be gay? Perhaps. Molly? Who knows?
I think, we don't "need" a gay character. As much as we didn't "need" a black character. But if someone was gay, so be it.
I think The Last Of us handled that in a good way. Bill was appearently gay, but it was never explicitly said. But they do find his ex-"partner" who hanged himself and a gay porno magazine at Bill's, so yeah he is gay and we know it. And yet he never said "I'm gay".
I played through episode 2 again today and I'm even more convinced that Mark was gay. He repeatedly looks to Lee for advice and, during the fence sequence, is constantly seeking affirmation for his own thoughts and opinions. When he complained that I hadn't fed him (I've done so before and wanted to see different reactions. Don't feed Larry. He's an ungrateful dick.) he sounded not necessarily hurt, but betrayed. And there was one scene where he turned and looked at Lee who, wordlessly, shook his head slightly, and Mark turned away. He looked up to Lee even more than Carley.
I'm almost certain Mark was gay. If he was, he was bloody well-written. If not, then I just loaded some black powder into my head canon.
Danny from the dairy... not 400 days.
I remember this scene, never understood what it was all about, but your analysis makes sense. I don't wanna play the whole episode again - do you remember in what context this scene plays, so I can watch it on YouTube?
Interesting theory. Might be true, I don't really know, personally I just thought that he was annoying and I was mostly hostile towards him, because my initial reaction was: "Who is this guy, a redshirt?" and I didn't want to become friends with him, so I gave food and axe to Larry instead of him (besides Larry was one of my favourite characters).
I honestly can't remember. Maybe when you first go to the farm? I recall it being a scene with a lot of talking.
It would be interesting to see TellTale put in an openly LBGT character, although it's not entirely nessacary. They don't need to include a LGBT character just to show that they can or just to please fans.
If it's actually part of the story, I would be alright with it. Otherwise, I don't really see the need. It's not like they're entirely different people, so they aren't going to have a different reactions pertaining to the zombies.
I don't know, I trust the judgement of TellTale for whatever they decide, but I kind of doubt they'll do it.