Am I the only one who hated Ben?
I really loved Lily and Carley and Ben fucked that up for me at the beginning of Episode 3. He just gets into the group the previous episode and then he decides it's his call to take the groups supplies and deal to the bandits? Hell no muthafucka! Then that causes Lily to go over the edge and kill Carley(she kissed me damn it!) and then Lily leaves and Ben is still there? Also, he fucked up in Episode 4 at Crawford taking the weapon out of the handles so then the zombies burst through and almost kill the group. I know his young but even Clem is smarter than that. I jumped out the chance to leave his sorry ass behind to be eating by zombies. Don't forgot he ran away when Clementine needed him and called it "Freezing up" when he really just ran off like a coward. Am I alone on this?
Comments
A majority will agree, and disagree, just based on opinions, but his family died, he didn't get a chance to say goodbye or anything at all, and I don't think he had anyone teaching him how to stay strong and live on his own like Lee did to clem, but I kind of hated him, liked him, for me he's like meh. xD
(sorry this is long)
Ben's fanbase is a little weird. He gathered a whole lot of fangirls/boys for a lot of reasons, but before that, it was a collective hate for his character. I was neutral with him, but I'm afraid my opinion on him was swayed due to my girlfriend having played it before me and expressing her hatred for him. Being adventurous with 'our' playthrough, I gave him a chance. Er, many chances.
A closer look at his character will tell you his tragic story. But, I'll tell you some things I have read over time. First, he's at a very delicate age of 16-18, where you're not quite a child and not quite an adult. Rather, he's treated as both. He's looked down on by his superiors for being a kid, and than expected to act like an adult. He's confused and scared from day one. Take into account that he basically watched his ENTIRE schol massacred. Any friends he had there, gone. The last two people he knew were taken from him as he met you.
He did what he did with the bandits because they told him they had a friend of his...AND that they'd kill everyone there if he didn't do it. Yeah, he should have told someone. He really should have. But he was trying to be an adult, he was trying to help, but it back fired. He made a mistake and he never forgot that. He agreed to leave when they stopped (I think?), though through the panic he took it back. This group was the closest thing to a family that he had. He knew he'd be dead otherwise.
I'm not sure what his deal was with Clementine, but they were friends and she probably convinced him she was independent and could take care of herself. He was really preoccupied spending time with Kenny and getting to know him. He wanted nothing more than to tell him the truth. And he probably would have been okay if Kenny beat him or shot him, because by that point his guilt had gotten so bad he wanted to be dead. (just not by walkers) Also, the weapon he took? That was kind of stupid, but Kenny told him to find a weapon and he was probably too fixated on that to realize what was going on.
His family didn't die though, per se. He just never got home. He doesn't know what happened to them, and in his own words to Kenny, "At least you had your family to lose". He really didn't have anyone teaching him things except for maybe shooting a gun and how to be a lookout. No one was teaching him life lessons, no one was teaching him how to 'properly' grow up. They just expected him to do it on his own.
I'm not trying to praise him or anything, or sway anyone's opinion on him, I'm just trying to shed a little bit of light on this. I'm positive all this has been recited before, but let it be done again.
You mean some people hated Ben... what?.
No but seriously like all characters if you dislike him and are awful to him he comes across as way worse . And while he is dumb throughout the game his character is more interesting than some of the ones that may be nicer but not really do anything plot wise.
I disliked Ben as a person, but enjoyed Lee's many ups and downs with him, narratively. I pitied him, as well. It's much like how I feel about Kenny, except Kenny had more admirable qualities (and more outright detestable ones, too).
Hate? That is a strong word but me? Never, he's coward, worthless but still I understand him.
I'm neutral towards Ben, but his characterisation in Episode 4 was a little too frustrating at times, especially with how forced the hatchet scene played out.
I don't hate Ben, but i believe that he just has ( or had) a lot to learn.
I hated him up until he asked me to drop him, when I immediately felt sorry for him. When I learned that he hated himself, and wanted so badly to die because he felt he was useless and stupid, I wanted nothing more than to pull him up and help him get better.
Then my finger slipped before I could switch to "Pull Ben Up". Woopsies.
I personally liked him untill I found out for sure he basically got Carly killed. (had suspicions but no proof till he confessed.) After that he just pissed me off. Looking back on things though he had it rough, and tried to do the right things, but was just constantly failing. As I heard from someone on these forums, "he was a dumbass, but he was OUR dumbass."
Better question would be, did anyone like Ben?
Nah, I don't hate him. Always thought he looked dumb an disheveled. Then I was pissed when Lilly killed Carley because of him, but I realised he really tried to help, poor jinx. Then when he left Clementine behind I was angry, but hate is a strong word. Let's say it was a relief for me when he 'left' the group.
From that point, I agree, yes he is young and will make mistakes but when mistakes cost lives, you just don't make those mistakes especially when their avoidable. All he had to do was tell the group the situation and Lee, Kenny and Mark would of went out and took care of the bandits but dealing with them by yourself is just beyond stupid. I feel an understanding for him but he messed up big time with what happened in Episode 3 and it's just too hard for me to overlook that and say I feel sorry.
Well he didn't know his decisions were going to get anyone killed. No one could possibly know that. Everyone makes mistakes, every single person. But Ben's character was deliberately played on to make mistakes and for you to notice them. People don't talk about how Larry almost killed Lee, or the time Clementine almost got both of them killed, or kidnapped, or even the small mistakes and mishaps everyone else had with walkers or anything.
Yeah, he's a stupid kid. But in Telltale's own words, He had a really big heart. He just showed it in the worst possible moments.
Man then don't :U this game is all about opinions and choices. You shouldn't change that just cause of something someone said? You dropped Ben because you saw what he could do. You didn't like it, you didn't like him, and that's why that option was there. There isn't exactly a right or wrong, and that's totally okay. I was just explaining his character a little. : >
NO YOU ARE NOT!!!
He is neither friend nor foe, but he is a bloody idiot
I did.
This discussion isn't really based on like or dislike is more based in understanding him or not. He had qualities like being a good guy, trying to help, he was also understanding, and had bad thing too like being kind off a coward, dependent on others and worried too much of what people think of him. But in the end I understand him, I mean he's a teenager with no family that lost his entire group, than was saved by Lee, mark and Kenny (if I remember correclty), and just landed on that new group where lots of people didn't liked him just because he was the "new" guy, I mean he was the "new" guy for manny charatchers and players even after episode 2, and some months have passed... So he felt kind of alone in the wrold and was trying to belong in this new group (and as bad luck had it he tried to help but just made bad calls or good calls that went bad...) where manny people didn't liked him... I understood him and didn't wanted him to die, I think he was a charatcher taht deserved development, and turning from this akward guy to someone that could curvive in that world. The difference between Clem and Ben is that everyone treated ben as a kid and at the same time expected him to be an adult as for Clem she had no pressure to do anything. So obviously i liked Clem better than Ben, but I liked Ben too, more than Kenny for example...)
Looks around only see's walker1247
"...Even after episode 2, and some months have passed..."
The gap between episodes 2 and 3 is only two weeks.
Very good assessment of Ben. I didnt like everything he did but I had compassion for him and tried to see things from his perspective. Thats why I saved him. Who knows how someone would act under the same circumstances. Chances are you'd do some pretty stupid things just because you dont know how to deal with such a strange situation.
She's not alone. I liked him, at least after he told off Kenny.
Yep
Ep1--------Ep2 - Three Months
Ep2--------Ep3 - Two Weeks
Ep3--------Ep4 - Twelve Hours
Ep4--------Ep5 - Immediately after Ep 4
Now more than ever, I am "don't fuck with Tiny Carlos" sure.
As stated before, Ben had a lot to learn. As Lee said "He's young and stupid."
Oh ok, I knew three months had passed between two episodes but I thought it was two weeks between 1 and 2 and three months between 2 and 3. Thanks
No. You're not the only one. The bandits, doing nothing to protect Clem, the hatchet... why did Mark have to die in Ep2 instead of Ben?!
I was angry at Ben when I found out he gave supplies but I totally understood his reasoning and may well have done the same thing in his position. Ben I found to be a confused scared kid. I mainly felt sorry for him but I actually connected with him as a character.
I dropped him because he deserved to die
But I did feel sorry for him. I couldnt have him around especially when there were like 4 people left in the ground and he would maybe fuck something up and get Clem or Kenny(oh wait) or Christa or Omid killed.
You really think he deserved to die? He's not the only person who made mistakes.
I liked Ben, because he was always just trying to help. His mistakes were just compounded on top of others, making them look worse. The bandits wouldn't have attacked of Lilly woulda listened to Kenny and left instead of staying at the motor inn. Ben didn't shoot Carley, Lilly did. Now Ben's mistakes just happened to coincide with Lilly's so I'm not trying to bash her, nor say he's completely innocent, but he was good kid trying to make things better but only made a bad situation worse. I liked him because he just seemed the most human too me.
Plus that scene in Episode 5 was one of the best of the Season.
To be fair what made me disdain Ben so much wasn't that he constantly lied, that he left Clementine for the walkers or that he chooses to pour out his dark secrets at the most inopportune time, what really wound me up about Ben was the simplest fact that he made a deal with the bandits. If he had've told the group that they had his friends (which I'm 99% sure they didn't) then they could've at least provided advice and he would've been giving them a heads up, however instead he is responsible for the deaths of Duck, Katjaa and Carley/Doug whilst also creating a sense of paranoia within Lilly and distrust amongst the group.
Ben is literally responsible for the deaths of Duck, Katjaa, Carley/Doug and possibly that of Lee, Kenny, Chuck and of course himself. I can understand the natural cowardice of a weasel in leaving Clem, I probably would too but to not even give the group a chance, he really dropped the ball.
I wouldn't say he deserves to die in a conventional sense but given the consequences his actions led to I think there isn't room for someone who's willing to lie for personal gain, don't get me wrong lying by it's very core is a key human defence mechanism but he chose to lie to a group of people resulting in every member losing someone, most of them lost their lives because of one of Ben's choices, had he been open from the start of episode three I think the whole situation could've been avoided. I'm still annoyed about losing Duck, that's why Ben deserved to die because he fails to think for the group rather than himself. Every main character made mistakes but Ben's resulted in the most loss of lives and the most pain caused.
Ben also point blankly lied to the group in front of them which results in Lilly's breakdown, don't get me wrong Lilly pulled the trigger but Ben's actions pushed Lilly to a point of paranoia and thus breaking point. He essentially got Duck, Katjaa, Chuck and Carley/Doug killed because he failed to tell a single person that the bandits "had" his friends, even a heads up after making the deal would've saved a shed load of carnage and pain.
I saved Ben, and I understand that he is going through a lot. I saved him in Crawford. But if you understand Ben, you need to understand Kenny as well.
Kenny is the only group member who had a living wife and son. More than anyone else, even counting Lee in regards to Clementine, he felt obligated (rightly so) to protect them with his life. He lost them both in one of the most traumatic ways imaginable. Ben literally took away every reason he had to live.
I find it hard to hold grudges. But to be perfectly honest, in. Kenny's position, I would never have forgiven Ben. My first instinct would be to charge him and beat him to deTh (as Kenny tried to when he reveals his secret in Crawford.) After I was stopped, I would have shot I'm in the face. I wouldn't care if I would be killed by the group for it. It's not like I would have anything to lose at that point.
I pitied Ben a little bit. But Kenny was right to hate him. If he had wound up killing Clementine, I bet much of the fan base would be a lot less sympathetic.
The same Kenny who didnt even want to go after Clementine because he held some petty grudge against Lee? Thats one thing I could never forgive Kenny for. And he's a grown man, not a scared teenager. That still infuriates me every time I think about it.
I can see why a lot of people would want to blame Ben for Duck and Katjaa's deaths, but if you look at things objectively, you'll realize that blaming Ben for Duck getting bitten makes no sense.
All Ben did was give stolen supplies to the bandits to get them to stop attacking the motor inn. That's it. That's all he can be blamed for. (And he should be blamed for that because giving away the group's limited supplies to a bunch of raving psychopaths without consulting anyone is a fucking dumbass move.) But everything after that was happenstance. Here's the chain of events leading to Duck getting bitten:
Ben steals supplies-->Lee finds supplies-->Bandits gets pissed-->Bandits attack-->Walkers come on the scene-->Duck falls over and get bitten
Is Ben's actions a crucial link in this causal chain? Sure. But if that alone equates to Ben causing Duck's death, then using the same logic, you could say that Clem caused Lee's death:
Clem talks to Stranger-->Stranger tells her to go outside-->She does so-->Stranger kidnaps her-->Clem drops her walkie-talkie-->Lee finds it and gets bitten
So unless you're comfortable blaming Clem for Lee's death, you can't blame Ben for Duck or Katjaa's deaths.
The thing is, the walkers arrived because of all of the commotion brought on by the bandits because of them not getting their supplies from Ben. They weren't going to go away quietly, remember when one of the bandits shot their own with several unneccesary blast from a gun because someone got a little greedy with the food? They were lucky walkers didn't show up here and then. And since they were shouting the whole place down with threats, and eventually people were shooting on both sides, it was inevitable that walkers will show up.
Noise attract walkers and that's why the place ended up overrun, someone was going to get bitten, and it was Duck. Granted, Ben didn't directly lead the walkers to bite Duck, but he did indirectly cause the chain of events that lead to someone getting bitten.
If Lilly would've agreed to leave the camp the bandits wouldn't have attacked.
Domewing it's very possible that you're also looking at things quite objectively too. I would say yes, Ben is potentially responsible for all the of the events during the raid on the motor in and afterwards, it's called causality or cause and effect (whichever term is the most common), Clementine could be held responsible for the death of Lee on some level but surely it's easier to trick a child by pandering to her by using the only two things that could persuade her from a distance (information/reuniting of her parents and the walkie talkie in which her parents used to communicate with her), because of these two major factors I imagine that it would pull on her heart strings and make Clementine go and seek out her parents, remember that despite her connection to Lee, her relationship to her parents is stronger.
By my logic Ben sets off a chain of events that takes away many of Lee's and Kenny's choices, which inevitably leads to the deaths of the people mentioned above, if they hadn't have left the motor in I think Clementine would be more inclined to stay at the inn and either wait for her parents return or when it was more appropriate go and search for her parents (with Lee or somebody else), this would give Clemetine more time to understand the world around her and see things in a more mature light, which I find somewhat ironic considering that she acts much more maturely than Ben.
For me Ben had to do one thing, tell Lee what the bandits had suggested to him (and the deal he made), after all the bandits were willing to compromise (in my story anyway before Lilly dropped that bombshell), the simplest way I found out to look at it was within two weeks of having Ben into your group he makes a deal with bandits, leaves Clementine for dead and then tells Kenny the truth at the worst possible time, I mean Crawford of all places. I can forgive cowardice but moral incompetence, afraid not.
The situation with Ben is very similar to the situation with Clementine. In both cases, a naive kid was persuaded by an outsider that he or she could gain something valuable by giving into their demands. For Clementine, it was the promise of seeing her parents again. For Ben, it was the safety of the group.
Just as we need to remember how strong Clem's relationship with her parents is, we also need to keep in mind Ben's past with those bandits. He's seen what they can do. He saw them tear his entire group apart, picking them off one by one and doing unspeakable things to his friends. So when he's presented with an opportunity to get them to leave the group alone, he took it. It was dumb that he didn't tell anyone else about it, sure, but I think it's quite understandable why he did it.
And it did work for a while until Lee took the supplies back. If you want to get technical that's what set the chain of events off. If Lee hadn't found the supplies and taken them back to Lilly, the bandits wouldn't have launched an attack then. So since they were part of the causal chain that lead to the bandits attacking, would you say that Lee and Lilly are also to blame for Duck and Katjaa's deaths? No, because there's no way they could have known that their action would lead to that outcome.
To me, it just doesn't make any sense to assign blame using these sort of indirect causal chains. People can be held responsible for the things that they do. That's it. After that, there are too many variables at play to make any sort of judgment as to who did what.
Finally, I'm not defending Ben overall. Leaving Clem to fend for herself in that hoard of zombies was a shitty thing to do. Telling Kenny the truth while a hoard of undead are trying to claw their way inside the room was a idiotic thing to do. I won't defend either of those (although if you argue that Ben caused Brie's death in the latter case, I do take issue with that). But I don't feel that it's right to blame Ben for something that no one could have foreseen as being a result of his actions.